From the “more proof Walmart is evil” department, comes this bit of serendipity. While looking for a marine deep cycle battery to serve as storage for a solar powered remote weather station and webcam I’m designing, this turned up in the Walmart product search:
Intrigued by the photo, since I had never seen it before, and because it showed a clear view of the sea at Battery Park from the early years of aviation, I set about trying to find the source of it. Usually, photos that are for sale tend to be well protected so that hi-res versions don’t make it onto the net. To my complete surprise, not only did I find the source, but also a high-res version. To my even bigger surprise, it turned out to be in NOAA’s public domain photo collection.
The source:
A flying boat cruising by Battery Park at the south end of Manhattan Island. In: “Flug Und Wolken”, Manfred Curry, Verlag F. Bruckmann, Munchen, 1932.
Image ID: line0987, NOAA’s America’s Coastlines Collection
Location: New York City
Photo Date: 1930 Circa
Credit: Fairchild Aerial Surveys Inc.
Category: Coastline/Mid-Atlantic New York/Historical/
And here is the hi-res version:
Click to enlarge (BTW, since this is public domain, save and print it yourself if you like it. COSTCO offers print services, as Dr. Mike Mann found out) – Anthony_
Available at: http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/htmls/line0987.htm
(Update: Michael Ozanne writes in comments:
That’s the Dornier Do-X , the biggest plane in the world of its day and one of the worst aeronautical engineering exploits in history. Famous for its mishap ridden marketing flight from Friedrichshafen to New York which ended up taking 9 months. Longer than it would probably take to swim it….. more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_X )
Note in the background, you can see what looks to be the Empire State Building (or possibly the Chrysler building) nearing completion. Empire state officially opened on May 1st, 1931. The Chrysler building May 20, 1930. That puts the photo above around 1930 to early 1931. (any readers that can help identify for sure, leave a comment please).
Now compare that photo to this one taken 80 years later in 2010 from Wikipedia with a nearly identical vantage point:
While there have been a lot of changes, most notably the mature trees now in Battery Park, one thing is clear – the city has not been inundated by sea level rise even though the NOAA Battery Park tide gauge indicates a rise of about 0.22 meter ( 8 3/4 inches):
Granted, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in sea level from 1930 to 2010 just by looking at the two photos, but that’s the point, especially when we see idiotic stories like this one in National Geographic:
Or this one of La Guardia airport by Climate Central’s Andrew Freedman, which is the all-time dumbest in my opinion, since I’m pretty sure sea level rise can’t catch airplanes:
What La Guardia Airport could look like with 5 feet of sea level rise, an amount that could occur by 2100, according to some estimates. Click on the image to enlarge. Credit: Nickolay Lamm/StorageFront , for Climate Central, using Climate Central data.
As always, I remind our readers:
Freaking out about NYC sea level rise is easy to do when you don’t pay attention to history
Related articles
- From the Scientific Urban Legend Department: ‘AGW Sea Level Rise Made Sandy More Destructive’ (wattsupwiththat.com)
Darren Potter says:
September 21, 2013 at 8:35 am
“Which resulted in land subsiding under weight of the numerous and massive buildings crammed full of people.”
The buildings rest on the bedrock, and that doesn’t subside.
At the same time that there is a claim that the sea is rising around NY the GPS a little south of Battery Park, shows that the land is sinking! So, which is it? Enjoy.
http://www.sonel.org/-Vertical-land-movement-estimate-.html
Fernando of Brazil. Your comment is just shy of coherence so I can’t really address it. What I can say is that there are hundreds of photographs of my patch in Holyhead some dating back to not long after the breakwater was completed circa 1850 and none show any evidence of sea level rise that is discernible to the human eye. Some people may claim that they can detect miniscule sea level rises via satellite measurements. I very much doubt that. But the point remains that the seaside structures that were built nearly 200 years ago are still performing their functions and not a single professional mariner here has any serious worries that they will not do so for many decades to come.
OK, you can go back to your Greenpeace pamphlets now.
Don’t misquote me Doug Huffman. What I said was:
Ya gotta admit the water does kinda look higher 😉
“What La Guardia Airport could look like with 5 feet of sea level rise, an amount that could occur by 2100, according to some estimates. Click on the image to enlarge. Credit: Nickolay Lamm/StorageFront , for Climate Central, using Climate Central data.”
I guess it never occurred to Lamm that the Ninth Ward in New Orleans has been four feet below sea level “forever” but dry and would have continued so if some “levees” had not failed during Katrina. So, the disaster he has creatively Photoshopped for 2100 was solved in New Orleans maybe a hundred years ago, maybe hundreds of years ago.
Adaptation beats mitigation every time. Well, except for Leftists all of whom live in an AlGorean fantasy world where the perfect and permanent climate of the Garden of Eden was corrupted through the sin of industrialization. AlGorean mythology is so close to the popular view of Genesis that AlGoreans might qualify as a heretical sect of Christians. I wonder who would be their counterpart of Christ?
Mosh
As has already been pointed out the observation regarding tides was made long before you turned up and failed to read the thread. You must stop looking at things on your phone
tonyb
John Moore
I live on the coast in the South West and wrote this article about sea level rise through the ages
http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/12/historic-variations-in-sea-levels-part-1-from-the-holocene-to-romans/
This is a much longer and detailed study.
http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/document.pdf
The long and the short of it is that sea levels were higher in Roman times in Britain than today.
Tonyb
American International Building
Alternative names – Cities Service Building, 60 Wall Tower
Height (tip) 290.17 m
Height (architectural) 290.17 m
Height (roof) 260.00 m
Floors (above ground) 66
Construction start 1930
Construction end 1932
Someone asked about dredging, the Hudson River Channel in that area is authorized -45ft mlw and 2000 ft wide. The natural depth of the harbor is usually given as “18ft,” but varied widely.
Regarding the “weight of the buildings,” recall that most Manhattan skyscrapers are founded on schist. Also consider that to make a tall building takes a deep foundation, a big hole that would reduce surcharge. I suspect most buildings are “neutrally buoyant,” effectively.
Rob Dawg says:
September 21, 2013 at 8:19 am
As a follow on to the world class surface stations triumph perhaps you could get people all over the world to compare historic coastal photography to current sea levels.
========
what is quite amazing is the climate scientists use goofy proxies like marine growth rates to try and figure out sea levels 200-300 years ago, when there are super accurate records sitting in the British Admiralty nautical archives. marine charts from the period were all drawn to 1 foot accuracy within the 1st fathom.
and while one will find things like a GPS datum correction and WGS datum correction on nautical charts, nowhere is there a global sea level rise correction. simply amazing given the volume of shipping and lives that depend daily on these charts.
if sea level rise is real, why are mariners not up in arms to have the charts corrected? even a 1 foot difference in sea levels can save millions in fuel costs, by opening up passages that are otherwise too shallow.
Greg Goodman says: September 21, 2013 at 10:39 am “Don’t misquote me Doug Huffman. What I said was: Ya gotta admit the water does kinda look higher ;)” Only the incomparable Danish comedian Victor Borge could quote, or be quoted saying, that – and Victor Borge you’re not. I’ll try to not disturb your bliss again.
Peter Crawford says:
September 21, 2013 at 10:38 am
Fernando of Brazil. Your comment is just shy of coherence ….
sorry, I’m a skeptic.
Just not mastered the English language enough to be accurate.
The image shows the same result as your observations and satellite observations.
No evidence of an increased level of the sea.
………….
Perhaps the increase in sea level is also hidden in the depths of the oceans [/ sarc
WUWT says “From the “more proof Walmart is evil” department…”
Studies have indicated that American families save as much as a few thousand dollars a year through the low prices offered at Walmart. With the money saved the family can make the decision to have only one income (a decision we made and are happy with), or save for future goals, or what have you. The point is, that the chain increases American’s purchasing power. In other sectors of the economy, rising prices for fuel, electricity, and food consistently sought by environmental activists reduce purchasing power parity in the US, and in effect, drain the middle class. They like to do this, while at the same time lionizing the Chinese economy by adjusting way up for PPP, which of course falsely vindicates centrally planned economies.
Other positive effects of Walmart are the employment opportunities, super-efficiencies in direct buying, and its trucking and inventory system, which allow for quick response to local needs and even disaster relief. Walmart and other companies are known to stock up on many items before a storm hits, lessening the suffering from weather and storms. Our tremendous infrastructure and fossil fuel-based trucking and shipping not only give purchasing parity to those who would not otherwise have it, it allows flexible and powerful responses in local areas when needed.
Correction: “increases the purchasing power of those who would otherwise lack it.”
I encourage Walmart to continue to offer products from all over the world and resist the pressure from environmental NGOs to reduce shipping from overseas. Perhaps someday Walmart will be able to serve people in African countries.
Thanks for the photo. Another landmark site for observing sea level rise is the Galveston, Texas seawall, erected after the worst climate disaster in American history.
Just to clearly summarize the sleuthing of the identities of the 3 tallest buildings in the old photo, they are left to right:
40 Wall Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_Wall_Street
70 Pine Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_Pine_Street
20 Exchange Place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_Exchange_Place
The one with the green (copper) spire and roof is 40 Wall St and the one under construction is 70 Pine. Their names have changed and this list gives a lot of interesting facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Skyline
Yes; talk about your observation bias (and could that also include ‘confirmation bias’ sometimes called “myside bias”*, as well as aspects of possible myopia and exhibited tunnel vision?) …
Hint to Mosh (for next time): Perform a keyword search for terms/subjects that ‘intuition’ says may be lacking in a particular discussion thread as a ‘save’ to making outrageous assumptions.
.
.
Only My Opinion Counts: Myside Bias A common error that occurs with everyday thinking is Myside Bias — the tendency for people to evaluate evidence, generate evidence, and test hypotheses in a manner biased toward their own opinions.
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I believe the building under construction is the 70 Pine Street Building.
Darren Potter says: “Which resulted in land subsiding under weight of the numerous and massive buildings crammed full of people.”
Darren, it is been said for decades that when they build a building in Manhattan (even a highrise) the weight of the bedrock removed (for the foundation) exceeds the total weight of the building. A old wives’ tale? Dunno.
Doug Huffman says:
September 21, 2013 at 10:59 am
Greg Goodman says: September 21, 2013 at 10:39 am “Don’t misquote me Doug Huffman. What I said was: Ya gotta admit the water does kinda look higher ;)” Only the incomparable Danish comedian Victor Borge could quote, or be quoted saying, that – and Victor Borge you’re not. I’ll try to not disturb your bliss again.
===
So having taken a humoristic comment and misquoted it by deliberately removing the ” 😉 ” (indicating it was a joke for those too simple to realise it without big red flag ) to try to make be out to be an imbecile who does not know what tides are, instead of apologising you try to divert with some obscure reference to Victor Borge in an equally insulting tone.
You are rude, disingenuous, misquote and misrepresent facts.
You’re not a AGW alarmist by any chance , are you?
[SNIP uneccessarily bad examples for this discussion, almost sure to turn this thread into a flame war – mod]
I don’t know of a power chair that uses batteries as small as 12ah (I repair them for a living). There might be some out there, but I’ll wager they’re extremely rare. Smaller scooters do use 12ah batteries, but PWCs use group U-1 (~35ah) and higher.
johnmarshall says:
Comparing those two photographs above it looks like a small sea level fall.
This could just be due to tides. Wonder what the average daily sea level change around Manhattan is. Probably considerably more than 22cm.
From Jeff Alberts on September 21, 2013 at 11:57 am:
Don’t they group smaller ones in parallel? With the right electronics, or mere electrical circuits, you can increase reliability by disconnecting faulty ones. Three of those get the U-1 range, if one goes out then you still have about 2/3 range. Makes the difference between getting back from the store or not.
And I’ve seen designs that have at least two battery boxes. Multiple smaller batteries can be placed in various nooks for a more compact design.
For the planned solar-powered weather station and webcam (wi-fi or cellular?), 12Ah should be enough for several cloudy days.
From Zeke on September 21, 2013 at 11:08 am:
Walmart International – Africa:
2013 August 23: Wal-Mart Opening 90 Stores in Africa
Just Google “walmart africa” to see all the good they’re doing there.