…because the Earth has experienced massive CO2 pulses and recovered before.
From the something you don’t see every day department comes this graph:
Atmospheric CO2 Concentration by Geologic Time Period
Source: GeoCO2.png Photo by dhm1353 | Photobucket
H/t to Tom Nelson
Here’s the next graph showing the sources:
Source: http://s90.photobucket.com/user/dhm1353/media/CO2_Decline.png.html
Data sources here: (thanks to Bill Illis)
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/climate_forcing/trace_gases/phanerozoic_co2.txt
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/climate_forcing/trace_gases/pagani2005co2.xls
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/epica_domec/edc-co2-2008.xls
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/climate_forcing/trace_gases/royer2006co2.xls
(Don’t use the Boron or Paleosols method ones, they are unreliable)
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/paleocean/by_contributor/pearson2000
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/ipcc2007/ipcc2007fig61top.xls
(Don’t use the Boron or Paleosols method ones, they are unreliable)
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/contributions_by_author/pearson2009/pearson2009.xls
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/contributions_by_author/tripati2009/tripati2009.xls
http://www.snowballearth.org/Bao08.pdf
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/contributions_by_author/hoenisch2009/hoenisch2009.xls
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v4/n7/extref/ngeo1186-s1.xls
(Don’t use the Boron or Paleosols method ones, they are unreliable)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7401/extref/nature11200-s2.xls
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7401/extref/nature11200-s2.xls


We dun got us’nz uh… uHFECKT that’s TOO BIG to CHECK on, and TOO SMALL to MAYzhure with uh… INSturmunt!
Richard Holle says:
August 8, 2013 at 4:36 pm
we need to find a way to geoengineer a release of CO2 from the rock, shell, and coral sequestration that is starving the green plants in the long run.
=============
plate tectonics. limestone + water + heat + pressure + iron = hydrocarbons + rock
the hydrocarbons, being lighter than water float upwards from the mantle-crust boundary and are eventually returned to the atmosphere and oxidized by bacteria, producing energy, CO2 and H2O. sometimes instead these hydrocarbons are trapped within rock formations, where they can be harvested by humans and oxidized, also producing energy, CO2 and H2O.
Ferdberple,
Is this a common plate tectonics formula?
policycritic at 8:21 pm
Is this a common plate tectonics formula?
No, it is not.
Neither it is a commonly accepted formula for the creation of hydrocarbons.
It isn’t even a formula for the creation of “rock”, as “rock” requires copious amounts of Silicon, Potassium, Aluminum, Magnesium, Manganese, Phosphorous, In addition to the iron in the formula (which comes from where, btw?) and the Calcium and Oxygen that could come from limestone and water.
Even then, these are not enough. In some rocks or there must be minor amounts of Chlorine, Fluorine, Lithium, Sulphur, Titanium, Boron, or Beryllium, and sporadically there must be concentrations of nearly all other metals with atomic numbers from 22 to 92 (except for 43) into rocks we call “ores”
http://www.mineralseducationcoalition.org/periodic-table-elements
See also the Bowens Reaction Series (by convention the hottest is on top the coolest on the bottom)
The vast majority of hydrocarbons in known deposits come from organic matter that is buried, heated, under pressure, and molecularly “cracks” large organic molecules into smaller ones. Plate Tectonics is the mechanism for bending rock and focused migration and trapping of hydrocarbons into commercial accumulations, or “fields”
That said, there could be a separate, abiogenic process to source light hydrocarbons, principally methane, from the deep crust or mantle.
Wikipedia: Abiogenic Petroleum Origin
This is really too kind. We have produced and know the locations of many trillions of barrels of oil and many quadrillions of cubic feet of natural gas (methane + minor amounts of ethane, propane, butane). For the vast majority of these hydrocarbon deposits, we know the age and approximate locations of the rocks containing the original organic material. All these hydrocarbons are most easily explained by from a biologic source.
This last sentence is fundamentally and logically wrong! Even if we conclusively prove the mainstream theory, that does not preclude a second parallel abiogenic process, even if in trivial, non-commercial amounts. Since Wiki has this logical error, let me posit the Wiki has another: that the mainstream theory is now proved.
The shale oil and shale gas revolutions today proves a biologic source of hydrocarbons. Oil and gas are being produced directly from the source rock, of known age, thermal history, and organic content. Instead of waiting for the hydrocarbons to migrate to a trap over millions of years, we have gone straight to the “source” and produce these from the “kitchen”. These hydrocarbons could not possibly be abiogenic for there is no way they could be created in the mantle and work their way into impermeable shales and not found elsewhere. This case is closed. The vast majority of all oil and gas is biogenic. The theory has worked for 100 years and quadrillions of dollars.
In today’s shale gas revolution, nothing changed in our theory for the source of hydrocarbons. What changed was our techniques for getting hydrocarbons our theories knew were there out of those tight rocks.
That doesn’t mean there are no abiogenic hydrocarbons. An theory of abiogenic source for hydrocarbons has to stand on its own. And it has to earn its keep. It would help if some hydrocarbons could be found on earth where a biological source was unlikely, much less impossible.
Because we all know–at least those of us who listen mostly to the echo chamber as our primary source–that pat, simplistic illustrations are far better than science to educate us.
Thanks for your reply. Have you ever heard this interview? It’s Dr. J.F. Kenney on NPR a few years ago. He makes the point that there are 4,000 Russian articles in the scientific literature and “hundreds of books and many, many monographs” about abiotic oil that haven’t been translated into English. In this NPR interview, Kenney discusses the abiotic mantle origin of petroleum, and makes the point that biological molecules cannot exist at temperatures higher than the critical temperature of salt water, which he says is reached at 3-5 km down depending on whether you’re in continental or marine environment. He said the Russian scientists found CaCO3 was of mantle origin from isotope tests on carbonitite formations in the mantle. And they were able to create oil i the lab with CaCO3, iron oxide, and triple-wet distilled water brought up to pressures of the mantle of the earth.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111025151824/http://www.gasresources.net/Kenney-NPR.mp3
The website with all Kenney’s scientific papers doesn’t seem to exist anymore; he may have died.
But I found these:
http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Zeitfragen/Petroleum/petroleum.html
A list of Russian papers with English names is at the end.
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html
Thanks, Stephen
@policycritic at 9:46 pm
I think my Aug 10, at 11:03 pm establish my stance on the issue
a. The vast majority of all hydrocarbons are most easily explained by biotic origins
b. That unconventional hydrocarbon sources (shale oil, shale gas) prove at least these hydrocarbons cannot have be abiotically derived in the mantle.
c. That even if biotic source hydrocarbons are proved, that cannot logically disprove an separate and parallel abiotic source to some hydrocarbons, especially methane, at trivial amounts.
BALDERDASH
The critical point of water is at 374 deg C (705 deg F) and 217.7 atm (or about 3200 psi. High temperature gas wells are at 350-400 deg F and the exploration game is over at 425 deg F.
Methane is an organic compound, that certainly is created by biologic processes. Wikipedia lists it autoignition temp 537 deg C. Which means that it can exist at least up to that temperature.
Here is table of autoignition temperatures of many compounds,
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html
Many hydrocarbons have higher autoignition temps above 375 deg C.
But what is the point of the statement on NPR? That organic molecules like propane couldn’t survive temperatures above 374 deg C and 3200 psi, so the only other possibility is that propane is created in the mantle at higher temperatures and pressures? That is internally inconsistent. Again, balderdash.
You want to show me some methane seeping out a volcanic vent? Fine Show it. I’ll readily admit methane can come from the mantle. Equilibrium conditions require trace amounts of propane, too. It will be in trivial amounts. That finding cannot disprove biotic sources for almost all methane venting from a well or a body orifice. It is a logical fallacy.
Commercial hydrocarbon fields derive from biologic organic matter. Whether you might possibly ALSO create some hydrocarbons at mantle conditions cannot invalidate what we know so well.
A slight correction to Stephen Rasey 8/13 12:00 am
b. That unconventional hydrocarbon sources (shale oil, shale gas) prove at least these hydrocarbons cannot have be abiotically derived in the mantle.
Make that:
b. That unconventional hydrocarbon reservoirs (shale oil, shale gas) prove at least these hydrocarbons cannot have been abiotically derived in the mantle.
These hydrocarbons are created in conventional source rocks. It is the same type of source rocks, sometimes the very same rocks, that create hydrocarbons that migrate into conventional, higher permiabile, reservoirs. What is unconventional is that we are horizontally drilling directly through the source rock kitchen. With hydraulic fracturing, we increase the effective surface area of the well bore, shortening the hydrocarbon migration path from miles to inches, and turn the source rock into a commercial reservoir.
Conventional source rocks with immovable hydrocarbons turned into unconventional reservoirs by fracking. That is why it proves these hydrocarbons are not derived from the mantle.