Climate Craziness of the Week: 'A great flood will punish the disbelievers'

Some days you just have to laugh.


The map, is quite something; perhaps it is the product of a bender or a psychotic episode of some sorts. Maybe its a lame attempt at satire, maybe the person actually believes what they wrote. It is hard to determine.

This person (“anonymous coward” per Slashdot) writes at a place called “Humanist Cafe”, which seems more anti-human than pro-human:

Jehovah God punishes only the deniers and saves the believers. Isn’t that the way these things go. Only this time, it’s science we’re talking about. When JG is done, the country will look something like this:

[Click to Enlarge]

us 06phy1

That’s the Lower 28 1/2. Isn’t it beautiful.

That’s the country if climate change affects only the states whose representatives in the House and the Senate deny global warming.

Now, some states get a little lucky – they are saved by rather hefty mountain ranges. A few progressive cities in denier states are saved too – like San Antonio and Austin. But, Red ‘Merica gets hit hard.


This reminds me of the sort of rants “Forecast the Facts” Brad Johnson has made about the states with conservative public representatives:

ThinkProgress discussion of the tornado outbreak
ThinkProgress discussion of the tornado outbreak

Never let a good crisis go to waste: tornado deaths blamed on lawmakers opposed to climate legislation

0 0 votes
Article Rating
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
August 4, 2013 12:16 pm

Thank goodness that Las Vegas was spared! Gambling on the beach, baby!

August 4, 2013 12:16 pm

Hmmm…what did parts of southern Canada and northern Mexico do to bring down the wrath of this demented person’s “Jehovah God”?

August 4, 2013 12:19 pm

At a 2010 NSF workshop on Climate Change Education Goals Heidi Cullen gave a presentation on “What Should Our Leadership Focus on When It Comes to Educating the Public About Climate Change Using Mainstream Media?”
That would be the oh-so-compliant MSM being targeted at us the unwashed ignoramuses in need of enlightening. According to the lead-off paragraph in Cullen’s paper:
“Research by a relatively small group of people (the climate science community) stongly suggests that the choice to burn fossil fuels to power our modern economy is extremely harmful to our climate over the long-term. As a result of this ‘work’, the climate science community is now asking the public to reconsider our primary energy sources (coal, oil, and natural gas) and focus on retooling our energy infrastructure to focus on long-term sustainability. When stated this way, it is clear that climate change is as much a cultural and values issue, as it is a science and technology issue. We are indeed asking a lot of the American public. As a result, our challenge is to build a strong and clear case for action.”
By never again phrasing it that way as cultural and values-oriented and instead hyping all weather events. Which is what makes that original quote as to what is up so excellent.

Dr. John M. Ware
August 4, 2013 12:22 pm

I love maps, and this one is fascinating–a true doozy. What I’d like to know is the cartographer’s postulated method or means of placing these areas under water. The Montanian Sea is over land much higher than my former home state of Indiana, which survives un-inundated. Death Valley is still dry, while Arkansas (complete with Ozarks) is very wet, indeed. Do we postulate simultaneous subsidence of certain areas and uplift of others? Also, what does the Cartog plan to do if results in coming elections change the supposed views of some of the states?

August 4, 2013 12:22 pm

It’s not all bad. I’ll have a shorter drive from Dallas to get to the beach.

R. Shearer
August 4, 2013 12:22 pm

At least Detroit survived!

TalentKeyHole Mole
August 4, 2013 12:23 pm

Wishful thinking (non) insanity like Obama’s “Terror Event”.

August 4, 2013 12:23 pm

Now let us draw a map that puts an ice cap on all states that wish to make heating more expensive for those on fixed incomes.
On the other hand, maybe it would be more fun to draw a map for a new Tolkien Trilogy.

August 4, 2013 12:25 pm

Slashdot has become one big rats nest of the insane.

August 4, 2013 12:25 pm

Who will be left to generate the wealth that is absorbed by all these welfare states?

August 4, 2013 12:28 pm

Also, notice how they blame all this on the Tea Party? Last time I checked, the Tea Party isn’t a political party, and doesn’t have a majority in the House, Senate or the White House.

August 4, 2013 12:28 pm

I guess I moved to the Appalachians just in time…phew!!

August 4, 2013 12:28 pm

Washington, DC is saved

August 4, 2013 12:31 pm

Does not follow geography of the region.

August 4, 2013 12:31 pm

Go ahead, buddies, keep wishing me dead, let’s see how that works out for you.

John another
August 4, 2013 12:40 pm

I posted this comment and another about the elevation of SF, NYC and DC but niether made it through the palace guard last night.
‘Little Rock at 335 ft and Miami at 6 ft are islands but St George, Utah at 2,860 ft is in the center of the ‘Gulf of Arizona’. Methinks this be bs’

August 4, 2013 12:41 pm

And if you believe any of that nonsense, I’ll be happy to sell you some oceanfront property in Arizona! No, really!

August 4, 2013 12:42 pm

Nearly 4 years ago an AGW proponent began her reply to me on an AGW-friendly site with this:
“I hope you drown yourself when the sea level increases.”
Apparently I may still need to to satisfy her desire for “social justice” since I live in one of the states that will be spared Gaia’s wrath. So much for “tolerance” and the wish to “coexist.”

Judy F.
August 4, 2013 12:49 pm

YEAH! Ocean front property for me !! I must be really lucky. I don’t believe in CAGW but I will still have a beach view. Life is great.

August 4, 2013 12:53 pm

Your poll is indeed an interesting question. For 2 decades now I’ve seen a lot of climate change / Global warming related stuff on German TV and many a state scientist interviewed and many a colorful graph; but never such a logarithmic relationship CO2 vs temperatures pictured.
(Yes I don’t own a TV for 14 years now but I do look at stuff on the Interwebs; it is more efficient)

R. Shearer
August 4, 2013 12:54 pm

Modified with permission? Copywrite 2009 All rights reserved

August 4, 2013 12:57 pm

In 1954 China had a very “Great flood” along Yanzi river for 3 month. It punished everyone.
at that time, the Atmosphere Co2 probably low. if it happened today, it would be big news for “Climate change”

August 4, 2013 12:59 pm

WOW!!!! All that new water in the upper Midwest. And access to the gulf. I bet the fishing will be terrific.

August 4, 2013 1:06 pm

It’s not the creator who is necessarily stupid. More likely the map reflects their view of those on their side who may view said map, and other creations like them. It tells us they tend to view themselves as elite, and far more intelligent than their followers. The bigger the whopper they can put over, the more it validates their perception of self as being far smarter than the masses. You see the same behavior in people like Gore and Clinton, who lie for fun and know they can get away with it.
Barry is another type of fish; he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. And we see how the country suffers under his regime. NPD is very bad for everyone around people who have it. NPD types are far worse than ordinary sociopaths.

August 4, 2013 1:08 pm

Detroit survived?? Too bad, perhaps. A lot of trouble could be avoided by drowning that puppy.

Bill in AZ
August 4, 2013 1:11 pm

Gulf of AZ! I like it – how soon? Methinks my 5000 ft elevation property won’t be under water like it says, especially if Seattle is spared. But it oughtta be a much shorter trip for some good saltwater fishing.

Dizzy Ringo
August 4, 2013 1:12 pm

And the Caribbean Islands are not underwater. How come?

August 4, 2013 1:12 pm

I left two responses asking politely for the science processes and physics that the Humanist Café article was based on but they did not survive moderation. I am already dead to them I guess. 😉

Gunga Din
August 4, 2013 1:13 pm

Is this “anonymous coward”’s name Lex Luther?
If he wants to invoke “Jehovah God” perhaps he should read what He said about rainbows.
PS Years my son bought me a coffee mug with a heat-sensitive map of the globe showing the globe being inundated the hotter the contents got. The US looked nothing like that even with the hottest coffee.

Gunga Din
August 4, 2013 1:15 pm

PS Years my son bought me a coffee mug

TYPO: That should be “PS Years ago my son bought me a coffee mug

August 4, 2013 1:17 pm

Surely the work of Hitler youth

August 4, 2013 1:24 pm

Tomorrow I am going to buy me a big boat. I’ll be just a few miles from the Gulf of Arkansas. A boat, a mojito, and a fishing pole!! Life is good. It also looks like Cheyenne will be the new Miami.

August 4, 2013 1:26 pm

Too bad the rest will perish of hunger since the productive states have been turned into seabed and the nutritional value of food stamps is near zero.

August 4, 2013 1:31 pm

Last I heard from some AGW folks, they had admitted that cyclonic activities were unconnected to global warming. Apparently there now exists a schism in the bunch.

August 4, 2013 1:35 pm

More evidence that the global warming alarmist crowd has taken over from the young-earth creationists. Faith and zealotry override any sense. The alarmists, as throughout history, are the true believers, immune from all fact and reality.
Twenty years from now the warming alarmists will be forgotten, but they will still be there, still preaching doom, even though the faithful will be few.

R. Shearer
August 4, 2013 1:42 pm

And Al Gore said, “Tell a man a lie and he might believe and repeat it. Teach him Photoshop and he can make up all kinds of BS.”

August 4, 2013 1:50 pm

The Gulf will extend into Tornado Alley. Do you know what this means? Sharknados will be comeing to a town near you!

August 4, 2013 1:52 pm

I was going to make a comparison…something to the effect of the shoe on the other foot
…then I remembered Charlie Rangel beat me to it
So, my point would have been moot….they can say anything they want

David in Cal
August 4, 2013 1:57 pm

Oh, come on. This is obviously a kind of joke.

August 4, 2013 1:58 pm

WooHoo, on the beach in Cheyenne.

August 4, 2013 2:02 pm

Humanist Café:
“Jehovah God punishes only the deniers and saves the believers. Isn’t that the way these things go. ”
Hmm. They just called Global Warming a religion.
I don’t think they’re smart enough to have noticed.

August 4, 2013 2:03 pm

Our Progressive friends are getting impatient with our intransigence. Apparently there is a time limit on skepticism.

August 4, 2013 2:06 pm

I’m a little disappointed that no one realized this is the 10-10 video without the explosions.

Michael Gersh
August 4, 2013 2:06 pm

Before he posted this map, the cartographer tried to stop global warming by throwing a virgin into a volcano. The only virgin he could find was his live-in girlfriend. His attempt failed because she had had a boyfriend before him, but he couldn’t believe that, so he made his map.

August 4, 2013 2:10 pm

The guy that drew that map is obviously geographically challenged and probably thinks Kevin Costern’s “Waterworld” was a documentary.

August 4, 2013 2:16 pm

I’ve always pointed out the close similarity of the AGW crowd and fundamentalist religions.

Michael Jankowski
August 4, 2013 2:16 pm

Miami survives as an island, lol.
Great “science.”

August 4, 2013 2:21 pm

I find it funny and sad they use God’s name, Jehovah. This reminds me of a sermon I was taught about in my American Literature class, Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God. Jonathan Edwards, who wrote the sermon, kept proclaiming that Jehovah was just ready to punish sinners in a burning hell. One line of the sermon: “The misery you are exposed to is that which God will inflict to that end, that he might show what that wrath of Jehovah is. God hath had it on his heart to show to angels and men, both how excellent his love is, and also how terrible his wrath is.”
This is absolute craziness, a repeat of the so-called Great Awakening. And just like then, it shows little knowledge into the Bible actually says. To me, this is AGW mixing with fire-and-brimestone Christianity. I’m not sure this is climate craziness or religious craziness. I wish I knew who this anonymous person was. I can prove them wrong with both science and the Bible.

August 4, 2013 2:27 pm

I think that maybe this is an adaptation of some of Edgar Cayce’s prophecies:

August 4, 2013 2:37 pm

Believing in God gives people a warm feeling, but so does peeing in your pants. Both are equally effective as sources for solving the problems we face.

Rud Istvan
August 4, 2013 2:45 pm

On a planet with 7 billion people, some 4 billion of whom have at least telephonic Internet access, the odds of thousands of ‘nutcases’ being able to post as above is roughly 0.99999999999… (or 1.0). This provides an experimental validation.
Question to poster: since Jehovah ‘is’ God in at least some languages/ traditions, does your Jehovah God mean God’s God, who in ancient beliefs could draw and then ‘make so’ any map they wished, as you show here, even though God him/herself couldn’t?
Surely this map rates another Lew survey, since its cartographic authenticity is being doubted by terrestrial elevation deniers. And it undoubtedly merits inclusion in AR5, or at least a revised SREX thereto, even though it may have slightly missed the peer review publication deadlines. A safe prediction is that other timing misses will be included, so why not this profound insight?

August 4, 2013 2:45 pm

“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride”

Doug Huffman
August 4, 2013 2:49 pm

; Pascal said it (his Wager in Pensees III 233), I believe it, that’s enough for me.
“Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.”
From this mustard seed sprang my Faith, justified sola fide, no words, works or rites required.

August 4, 2013 2:54 pm

Others have addressed this, but…My current home in Kansas will be underwater, but my old home in New Jersey, which is at exactly the same altitude, will not be?? This Jehovah is going to flood places he doesn’t like and let the ones he does survive. This is surely religion, not physics.

john piccirilli
August 4, 2013 2:57 pm

, Gore and Mann found guilty of using p.e.d’s…….planet enhancing data

August 4, 2013 2:58 pm

Goodness. Looks like someone missed their lessons on topography … or there is about to be a huge uplift on the east and west coasts, the central US is going to sink, and a mountain range is going to sprout up to prevent the Great Montanan Sea from draining down the Mississippi. I suppose if a large asteroid were to crash into the centre of the US SE of St Louis on a north west trajectory …. Course, not much would be left around the rest of the US but it “could” happen … 😂 🙂

Bruce Cobb
August 4, 2013 3:09 pm

The stupidity and hatred, they burn. Warmatards so love to dance on the graves of those who dare question their CAGW religion. They will even fantasize about it. It’s just who they are. It’s a religion of liars, thieves and haters. Must be nice.

August 4, 2013 3:18 pm

in Cal
Yes I agree with you. The whole thing is tongue in cheek, and very well done, I might add.

Jack Simmons
August 4, 2013 3:23 pm

Looks like the Louisiana Purchase is taken out.
Denver is still going to do well. Perhaps the environmental goodness from Boulder will protect us here.

August 4, 2013 3:24 pm

Fatal flaw in this anticipated bit of future schadenfreude:
most people in the US “denier states” will already be in Heaven post-Rapture

August 4, 2013 3:30 pm

Couldn’t help noticing that progressive cities like San Antonio and Austin in denier states will be saved. I assume they are at a higher altitude. Can i propose that there might be a link between progressive thought and lack of oxygen due to living at high altitude ?

August 4, 2013 3:39 pm

As long as Washington DC is wiped off the map then everything’s good.

David L. Hagen
August 4, 2013 3:41 pm

Sadly anonymous coward knows little of God as revealed to Jeremiah:

but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 9:24 NIV
The Cornwall Alliance provides godly perspectives on providing justice for the poor in the context of global warming.

August 4, 2013 3:44 pm

David in Cal says:
August 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Oh, come on. This is obviously a kind of joke.

“Hey, imagine if everyone not like me was *DEAD*. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!”
Not really funny, especially when it’s the same joke told over and over and over.

August 4, 2013 3:45 pm

Basically what you get when the ice caps melt, this is more or less the North American Inland Sea during Cretaceous, when, of course, as WUWT has been telling us CO2 was 10 X pre-industrial. Of course, it does take a while to melt the ice caps.

Bill H
August 4, 2013 3:46 pm

The STUPID… It burns….
Where do these people come up with this drivel?

August 4, 2013 3:49 pm

CAGW is the new religion of the sad, lonely anti-nuclear / anti-west / anti-industry / anti-human / enviro-nuts. They feel the constant need to act on something or other. “We must act now!” Sorry, no we must not ‘act now’ or in the future on Co2. We must continue releasing this vital fertilizer which has been greening the Earth for over 2 decades.

August 4, 2013 3:50 pm

OK, that was several hours of fun.
From the Open Minds Department, we have these recently deleted long posts from the subject blogsite:
I would be surprised if this post survives very long here, but here goes anyway.
I am always greatly saddened when I read such an article. I ask myself “Is this as far as we have come as a species?” What happened to science?
So, I am about to present some very hard core science. If you make it to the end there is a chance you will gain insight into how science is actually done.
Initiating this discussion, does anyone here know when we all live? The name of the geologic epoch?
We live in the year 11,716 of our precious little Holocene Epoch. The 8th interglacial since the Mid-Pleistocene Transition (MPT). Seven of the last eight such interglacials have each lasted about half of a precession cycle. The precession cycles oscillates between 19,000 and 23,000 years long and we are at the 23kyr part now, making 11,500 years half. We are precisely 216 years older than half the present precession cycle length.
Which is why this discussion has relevance.
How long will the Holocene last?
That debate kicked-off at the same time as the AGW debate did and was triggered by the very same evidence. The waged-within-the-paleoclimate-literature debate you have heard not one thing about.
We will tune into this debate with a paper published in Nature, 1998, by arguably the father of modern paleoclimatology Wallace S. Broecker:
“The End of the Present Interglacial: How and When?” (Quaternary Science Reviews, volume 17, pp. 689-694)
Broecker posits these three questions at the end of the introduction:
“1) Were previous intervals of peak interglaciationterminated by abrupt global coolings?
(2) How close are we to the end of the present interval of peak interglaciation?
(3) Will the ongoing buildup of greenhouse gases alter the natural sequence of events?
And those, ladies and gentlemen, are some very interesting questions indeed.
Beyond this point, this will get significantly more technical in terms of the peer-reviewed science you may have never been exposed to.
The reports of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) are often referred to as the gold standard on climate change. We will start with the worst-case, business-as-usual projected anthropogenic signal from the IPCC’s Assessment Report 4 (AR4) (2007). Proceed to Figure 10.33 from page 821 of Chapter 10 and note that if we take the upper bound of the error bar at the year 2099 we read +0.59 meters of sea level rise.
This is the worst case estimate, the anthropogenic “signal” in terms of the singular measure of sea level. +0.59M is about 2 feet. For the purposes of the following discussion we will round that to +0.6M.
As we are yet once again at a half-precession cycle old interglacial, it would seem reasonable to inquire as to what might the ends of the other post-MPT interglacials have been like. And this is where we enter the basic scientific paradigm known as the signal-to-noise ratio.
The last such interglacial back in the paleoclimate record is MIS-5e, or the Eemian interglacial. Hearty and Neumann (Quaternary Science Reviews 20 [2001] 1881–1895) abstracting their work in the Bahamas state:
“The geology of the Last Interglaciation (sensu stricto, marine isotope substage MIS 5e) in the Bahamas records the nature of sea level and climate change. After a period of quasi-stability for most of the interglaciation, during which reefs grew to +2.5 m, sea level rose rapidly at the end of the period, incising notches in older limestone. After brief stillstands at +6 and perhaps +8.5 m, sea level fell with apparent speed to the MIS 5d lowstand and much cooler climatic conditions. It was during this regression from the MIS 5e highstand that the North Atlantic suffered an oceanographic ‘‘reorganization’’ about 11873 ka ago. During this same interval, massive dune-building greatly enlarged the Bahama Islands. Giant waves reshaped exposed lowlands into chevron-shaped beach ridges, ran up on older coastal ridges, and also broke off and threw megaboulders onto and over 20 m-high cliffs. The oolitic rocks recording these features yield concordant whole-rock amino acid ratios across the archipelago. Whether or not the Last Interglaciation serves as an appropriate analog for our ‘‘greenhouse’’ world, it nonetheless reveals the intricate details of climatic transitions between warm interglaciations and near glacial conditions.”
Right away you should have perceived two fairly significant end extreme interglacial sea-level “noise” problems. Sea level “noise” +2.5M above present for most of the interglacial. The AGW AR4 worst case “signal” of +0.59M would be only 1/4 of the normal interglacial noise.
But it gets worse than you thought.
When compared to the +6 to +8.5M highstands achieved right at the half-precession old Eemian, our AGW “signal” scores only 10% at best.
It gets worse than that.
Boettger, et al (Quaternary International 207 [2009] 137–144) abstract it:
“In terrestrial records from Central and Eastern Europe the end of the Last Interglacial seems to be characterized by evident climatic and environmental instabilities recorded by geochemical and vegetation indicators. The transition (MIS 5e/5d) from the Last Interglacial (Eemian, Mikulino) to the Early Last Glacial (Early Weichselian, Early Valdai) is marked by at least two warming events as observed in geochemical data on the lake sediment profiles of Central (Gro¨bern, Neumark–Nord, Klinge) and of Eastern Europe (Ples). Results of palynological studies of all these sequences indicate simultaneously a strong increase of environmental oscillations during the very end of the Last Interglacial and the beginning of the Last Glaciation. This paper discusses possible correlations of these events between regions in Central and Eastern Europe. The pronounced climate and environment instability during the interglacial/glacial transition could be consistent with the assumption that it is about a natural phenomenon, characteristic for transitional stages. Taking into consideration that currently observed ‘‘human-induced’’ global warming coincides with the natural trend to cooling, the study of such transitional stages is important for understanding the underlying processes of the climate changes.”
So, not one, but two warming events, right at the end of the last interglaciation.
However, it gets even worse than that.
As it turns out, even on things which actually have happened, the science is not that particularly well-settled.
If the above link posts properly it will take you to a fascinating paper where Hearty et al (2007) discuss “Global sea-level fluctuations during the Last Interglaciation (MIS-5e)” (copy and paste paper title into the contiguous text field of advanced to access). Here the authors summarize 12 worldwide studies on sea levels which highstand estimates range from +6M amsl to +45M amsl. And this is not within the full end most recent extreme interglacial estimates of sea level rise right at the very end of the Eemian.
That honor may attend a study by Astrid Lysa et al (2001) “Late Pleistocene stratigraphy and sedimentary environment of the Arkhangelsk area, northwest Russia” (Global and Planetary Change 31 Ž2001. 179–199)
From the abstract:
“The Arkhangelsk area lies in the region that was reached by the northeastern flank of the Scandinavian ice sheet during the last glaciation. Investigations of Late Pleistocene sediments show interglacial terrestrial and marine conditions with sea level up to 52 m above the present level.”
MIS-5e could represent the highest sea-level excursion yet know to have occurred after the Mid Pleistocene transition. If we take both worst-case estimates, we have the IPCC AR4 AGW “signal” prediction of +0.59M rise by 2099 to compare with the nearly 2 orders of magnitude (or almost a factor of 100) +52M rise which may have occurred at the end of the most recent interglacial.
This post grows long by necessity, so I will start another in which I will continue and pose possibly the most vexing question we might ask about climate.

Robert Wykoff
August 4, 2013 3:52 pm

The gulf of Arizona is kind of neat. It contains many mountain ranges in Nevada some of which go well over 10,000 feet in elevation.

Dodgy Geezer
August 4, 2013 3:56 pm

Huffman says:
“Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.”
From this mustard seed sprang my Faith, justified sola fide, no words, works or rites required.

I’ve often wondered about that argument. How do you decide WHICH God? There are a fair number to chose from, and they mostly (with slight variations) promise all THEIR followers eternal bliss and the unbelievers eternal damnation…

August 4, 2013 4:00 pm

Post 2
The climate “jokers” in the eight post-MPT interglacial climate “deck” are the three that have occurred at an eccentricity minimum. Ours; MIS-1, MIS-11, the Holsteinian interglacial, and MIS-19, which occurred pretty much at or within the Mid Pleistocene Transition.
Remember that 7 of the last 8 interglacials have each lasted about half a precession cycle? Well MIS-11 was that interglacial which was not on the half-precession interglacial clock. Depending upon which paper you review, the range of the estimates of the duration of MIS-11 is somewhere between 22 and 33 thousand years long, Or 1.5 to perhaps 2 full interglacial cycles.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is an anomaly. However MIS-19, the second to last time we were at an eccentricity was not anomalously long. It seems to have lasted about ~9,500 or so years.
In the simplest math, that gives us a 50:50 chance of “going long” with the Holocene.
Here we will delve much deeper than that. Because that is how science works.
Looking at orbital mechanics and model results, Loutre and Berger (2003) in a landmark paper (meaning a widely quoted and cited paper) for the time predicted that the current interglacial, the Holocene, might very well last another 50,000 years, particularly if CO2 were factored in. This would make the Holocene the longest lived interglacial since the onset of the Northern Hemisphere Glaciations some 2.8 million years ago. (paywalled)
Loutre and Berger’s 2003 paper was soon followed by another landmark paper by Lisieki and Raymo (Paleoceanography, 2005), an exhaustive look at 57 globally distributed deep Ocean Drilling Project (and other) cores (Figure 1), which stated:
“Recent research has focused on MIS 11 as a possible analog for the present interglacial [e.g., Loutre and Berger, 2003; EPICA community members, 2004] because both occur during times of low eccentricity. The LR04 age model establishes that MIS 11 spans two precession cycles, with 18O values below 3.6o/oo for 20 kyr, from 398-418 ka. In comparison, stages 9 and 5 remained below 3.6o/oo for 13 and 12 kyr, respectively, and the Holocene interglacial has lasted 11 kyr so far. In the LR04 age model, the average LSR of 29 sites is the same from 398-418 ka as from 250-650 ka; consequently, stage 11 is unlikely to be artificially stretched. However, the June 21 insolation minimum at 65N during MIS 11 is only 489 W/m2, much less pronounced than the present minimum of 474 W/m2. In addition, current insolation values are not predicted to return to the high values of late MIS 11 for another 65 kyr. We propose that this effectively precludes a ‘double precession-cycle’ interglacial [e.g., Raymo, 1997] in the Holocene without human influence.”
Muddying the waters more we have Chronis Tzedakis, in an exhaustive look at the MIS-1/MIS-11/MIS-19 conundrum (Tzedakis, 2010, The MIS 11 – MIS 1 analogy, southern European vegetation, atmospheric methane and the “early anthropogenic hypothesis”, Climate of the Past, vol. 6, pp 131-144, European Geosciences Union)
considers the matter thusly:
“While the astronomical analogy between MIS 1 and MIS11 has been incorporated in mainstream literature, there is a distinct difference between the two intervals: the Holocene contains one insolation peak so far, while the MIS 11 interval of full interglacial conditions (Substage 11c of the marine isotopic stratigraphy) extends over two insolation peaks. Thus an interesting situation has arisen with regard to the precise alignment of the two intervals.”
“The two schemes lead to very different conclusions about the length of the current interglacial, in the absence of anthropogenic forcing, …
“… the precessional alignment would suggest that the Holocene is nearing its end, “while the obliquity alignment would suggest it has another 12,000 years to run its course.
“In this view, the two Terminations are incommensurate and MIS-1 is analogous only to the second part of MIS-11c.”
Regardless if you choose MIS-11 or MIS-19 as the analog for our precious little Holocene interglacial (so far), MIS-11 seems to have had a very long life even if at a sustained +21M amsl, perhaps a single end extreme interglacial highstand at +21.3M amsl:
Olson and Hearty (2009) in “A sustained +21 m sea-level highstand during MIS 11 (400 ka): direct fossil and sedimentary evidence from Bermuda” (Quaternary Science Reviews 28 (2009) 271–285) (paywalled)
“A small, protected karstic feature exposed in a limestone quarry in Bermuda preserved abundant sedimentary and biogenic materials documenting a transgressive phase, still-stand, and regressive phase of a sea-level in excess of 21.3 m above present during Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 11 (400 ka) as determined by U/Th dating and amino acid racemization.”
If MIS-11 is any guide, the sea level map of the author might have happened anyway. And not just +21.3M amsl 400,000 years ago, but maybe up to +52M amsl about a hundred thousand years ago.
MIS-19, on the other hand, lasted about half a precession cycle, just like the 7 other post-MPT interglacials. But it suffered not one or two, but three thermal excursions, right at its very end:
From K.Pol et al (2010) we have this:
“During the glacial inception from MIS 19 to MIS 18, the low resolution EPICA Dome C water stable isotope record (Jouzel et al., 2007) has revealed millennial variability principally marked by the occurrence of three consecutive warm events (hereafter called Antarctic Isotope Maxima — AIM, following EPICA-community-members, 2006, and noted A, B, C on Fig. 2).”
(“New MIS 19 EPICA Dome C high resolution deuterium data: Hints for a problematic
preservation of climate variability at sub-millennial scale in the “oldest ice””, (Earth and Planetary Science Letters 298, pp. 98-103)
Can it get any worse than that? In fact, it does.
If you have been keeping up, in the most relevant recent past (post-MPT time, or the last 800kyrs or so) sea levels seem to actually have been from perhaps a low of +2.5M above present “for most of the interglacial” during MIS-5e to perhaps as much as +21M above present for most of the only extended interglacial (which eerily almost matches the Holocene) we know of in the most relevant time and eccentricity minima time frame (or at least the last half thereof). That, in conjunction with the 3 thermal pulses at the end of MIS-19 constitutes the natural normal end extreme interglacial climate noise envelope. Within all of this we must distinguish our worst case “anthropogenic signal” of +0.59 meters by 2099.
Good luck with that.
As difficult as that might appear to a late-Holocene sentient being, it actually does get much worse than that.
Run your General Circulation Models (GCMs) forwards or backwards (hindcasts), it might not matter all that much. As it turns out Greenland ice records climate change to not quite back to the beginning of the last interglacial, the Eemian, but in pretty good detail, compared to Antarctic ice (Antarctica is a sort of snow desert, with average annual snowfall measured in inches whereas Greenland is measured in tens of feet. And ice only gets so thick (extra credit research project).
Sole, Turiel and Llebot writing in Physics Letters A (366 [2007] 184–189) identified three classes of D-O oscillations in the Greenland GISP2 ice cores A (brief), B (medium) and C (long), reflecting the speed at which the warming relaxes back to the cold glacial state:
“In this work ice-core CO2 time evolution in the period going from 20 to 60 kyr BP [15] has been qualitatively compared to our temperature cycles, according to the class they belong to. It can be observed in Fig. 6 that class A cycles are completely unrelated to changes in CO2 concentration. We have observed some correlation between B and C cycles and CO2 concentration, but of the opposite sign to the one expected: maxima in atmospheric CO2 concentration tend to correspond to the middle part or the end the cooling period. The role of CO2 in the oscillation phenomena seems to be more related to extend the duration of the cooling phase than to trigger warming. This could explain why cycles not coincident in time with maxima of CO2 (A cycles) rapidly decay back to the cold state. ”
“Nor CO2 concentration either the astronomical cycle change the way in which the warming phase takes place. The coincidence in this phase is strong among all the characterized cycles; also, we have been able to recognize the presence of a similar warming phase in the early stages of the transition from glacial to interglacial age. Our analysis of the warming phase seems to indicate a universal triggering mechanism, what has been related with the possible existence of stochastic resonance [1,13, 21]. It has also been argued that a possible cause for the repetitive sequence of D/O events could be found in the change in the thermohaline Atlantic circulation [2,8,22,25]. However, a cause for this regular arrangement of cycles, together with a justification on the abruptness of the warming phase, is still absent in the scientific literature.”
In discussing the Late Eemian Aridity Pulse (LEAP) at the end-Eemian, Sirocko et al (A late Eemian aridity pulse in central Europe during the last glacial inception, nature, vol. 436, 11 August 2005, doi:10.1038/nature03905, pp 833-836) opine:
“Investigating the processes that led to the end of the last interglacial period is relevant for understanding how our ongoing interglacial will end, which has been a matter of much debate…..”
“The onset of the LEAP occurred within less than two decades, demonstrating the existence of a sharp threshold, which must be near 416 Wm2, which is the 65oN July insolation for 118 kyr BP (ref. 9). This value is only slightly below today’s value of 428 Wm2. Insolation will remain at this level slightly above the inception for the next 4,000 years before it then increases again.”
We are nearing the end of our climate journey. It is all up to each of us. Allow me to sum this up into what occurs to me to be a most seminal question.
We are yet again at an eccentricity minimum. Just like MIS-19, which did not “go long”, and MIS-11, which did. At best, orbitally, we are closer to the last half of MIS-11 than to MIS-19. On the upside “Insolation will remain at this level slightly above the [glacial] inception for the next 4,000 years before it then increases again.”
Remember, it’s all up to you now. You, we, need to make it just 4 millenia to when the Arctic Circle (N65 degrees) summer solstice insolation value ticks up to where we are now. Which is alarmingly close to glacial inception at the end of the last interglacial. If “The role of CO2 in the oscillation phenomena seems to be more related to extend the duration of the cooling phase than to trigger warming” would you:
A. Strip the CO2 “climate security blanket” from the late Holocene atmosphere?
B. Invoke the Precautionary Principle and leave it up there just in case……
The intriguing thing to me is that actually is the choice. Do your best…….
Both posts were deleted within seconds of being posted.

August 4, 2013 4:07 pm

The above two deleted posts at the “Humanist Cafe” real time are offered for evidence as regards:
“Human behavior is profoundly affected by the influenceability
of individuals and the social networks that link
them together. Well before the proliferation of online social
networking, offline or interpersonal social networks have been
acknowledged as a major factor in determining how societies
move toward consensus in the adoption of ideologies, traditions,
and attitudes [1,2]. As a result, the dynamics of social
influence has been heavily studied in sociological, physics, and
computer science literature [3–7].
“…A key feature in both thesemodels is that once
an individual adopts the newstate, his state remains unchanged
at all subsequent times.
“…..In closing, we have demonstrated here the existence of a
tipping point at which the initial majority opinion of a network
switches quickly to that of a consistent and inflexible minority.”
Too easy

August 4, 2013 4:11 pm

I’ve seen a number of comments from posters with the ‘Anonymous Coward’ handle.
Judging by what I’ve read this is a joke aimed at the Humanist Cafe to highlight the gullibility of.’believers’
The Jehovah reference probably alludes to the quasi-religious nature of some Green sectors.
The obviously incorrect altitude related flooding were were deliberate, IMO, to highlight the frequent mathematical shortcomings.of many who follow the true faith.
Nice one AC:)

August 4, 2013 4:18 pm

Oh come on, this is clearly satire. Unless of course it is a “Poe”'s_Law
in which case some of you have proved Poe’s Law.

August 4, 2013 4:20 pm

Update. I think I just got blocked over there ??????

August 4, 2013 4:20 pm

California’s Central Valley, where about 40% of our crops grow, would have to go under.

August 4, 2013 4:23 pm

Eli Rabett says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Basically what you get when the ice caps melt, this is more or less the North American Inland Sea during Cretaceous, when, of course, as WUWT has been telling us CO2 was 10 X pre-industrial. Of course, it does take a while to melt the ice caps.
I missed the point about the willingness of CAGW Disciples and Priesthood to accept that Man is Doomed for his Sins and to suspend their disbelief when supporting ‘one of their side’
This RoyFOMR thanks Eli for the reminder (and the chuckle)

David Klepping
August 4, 2013 4:30 pm

Wow, he managed to wipe out about 2/3 of the agriculture of the US. I’d hate to live in the rest after this happened although I live in one of the areas that is “saved”.

August 4, 2013 4:45 pm

William McClenney says: “From the Open Minds Department, we have these recently deleted long posts…”
Great, William, but I skip anything that takes more than two screens to display.

August 4, 2013 4:48 pm

Pretty standard revenge fantasy.

August 4, 2013 4:55 pm

Interesting to note: Johnathan Edwards was “voted out” by his congregation, within a few years after the “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God”.(This is the NATURE of “Congregational” churches, no heirarchy per see. I might quip: “Nothing as dire a fate as bad sermons in the hands of actual saints!”

August 4, 2013 4:56 pm

I think it’s not a joke but a kind of warmist wankery.
Eli Rabett says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm
“Basically what you get when the ice caps melt, this is more or less the North American Inland Sea during Cretaceous, when, of course, as WUWT has been telling us CO2 was 10 X pre-industrial. Of course, it does take a while to melt the ice caps.”
He’s proving my point. “More or less”, only of an entirely different shape, so it’s not really that, but good enough to spin a warmist yarn; good enough for government work. Hey, rodent, you should now rewrite the history of science, “adjust” it, so that the reconstruction of that American Inland Sea so that it better fits your phantasies. Start with the wikipedia so that the Humanist Café is vindicated. Let a student of yours write a computer program that pretends to predict it. Should be easy as cake and make you immortal in the new faux science you’re creating.

August 4, 2013 5:22 pm

The Cretaceous inland sea in North America was the result of the new Atlantic Ocean, which being a newly developed ocean, was relatively shallow and had not sunk into the mantle yet.
The average depth of the World’s oceans was higher as a result and all that water had to go somewhere. Onto the land in North America, Europe and The Middle East is where it went. Much of our oil comes from this period of shallow oceans covering the continents.
The average sea level was more than 250 metres higher than today. It had nothing to do with CO2 or a lack of ice at all. It was geology and plate tectonics.

August 4, 2013 5:48 pm

Got it. When someone takes the same position they always take against people they disapprove of, in language similar to but exaggerated (or the same), that’s “satire,” and it must be judged in a vacuum.
Or not.
If the entire site is Satire they need to break character a few times, because it’s hard to tell them from the rest of the “progressive” movement, which is apparently also “satire.”
I think you’re taking the joke too far, guys. We get it, you can stop now.

August 4, 2013 5:52 pm

PS William McClenney, appreciate the nice big chewy posts!

August 4, 2013 5:59 pm

William McClenney says:
August 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Update. I think I just got blocked over there ??????
At the Humanist Cafe? Yeh, he doesn’t seem interested in an exchange of thoughts. Nor, apparently, a discussion on the meaning of the word “empirical”.

Luther Wu
August 4, 2013 6:06 pm

Any of the humans over at the Humanist Cafe are free to come here and debate. However, no debate is to be seen at that place. Apparently they’re above debate… would that explain it?

August 4, 2013 6:16 pm

Did they get the call ? Noah !! You must build an ark …

Luther Wu
August 4, 2013 6:17 pm

Dodgy Geezer says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Huffman says:
“Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.”
From this mustard seed sprang my Faith, justified sola fide, no words, works or rites required.
I’ve often wondered about that argument. How do you decide WHICH God? There are a fair number to chose from, and they mostly (with slight variations) promise all THEIR followers eternal bliss and the unbelievers eternal damnation…
Does it not say in your own scriptures, “ye are gods”?
(little g)

August 4, 2013 6:24 pm

The certainty is a little terrifying coming from people who should know better.
Religion – or a desire to believe in a big idea – does seem to be hard wired, even in people with the education to recognize this susceptibility of ours.

August 4, 2013 7:02 pm

…as a fisherman who lives in the Chicago region, I’m excited! Can’t wait to start trolling in the “Montanian Sea”!! Maybe extinct species will return, I’d love to put a hook into an ichthyosaur!

August 4, 2013 7:11 pm

In a tweet Canadian Paul Beckwith was rejoicing that 20% Brasilian sugar crops got nixed by frost, helping obesity… Not kidding… part time professor at University of Ottawa about the recent cold wave in South America and its consequences:
“Paul Beckwith
Frost damages 20% of Brazil’s sugar crop. A positive from ‪#‎climatechange‬+higher food prices; lower ‪#‎obesity‬ levels.”
A POSITIVE? Really sick!

Werner Brozek
August 4, 2013 7:42 pm

So the laws of high school physics will change so that high areas become flooded and low areas get spared? According to my Bible, it seems as if the basic laws of science have been fixed for a long time.
Jeremiah 33:25
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
25 The Lord says, “If my agreement with day and night does not continue, and if I had not made the laws for the sky and earth, maybe I would leave those people.

Jeff Alberts
August 4, 2013 7:47 pm

Michael Gersh says:
August 4, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Before he posted this map, the cartographer tried to stop global warming by throwing a virgin into a volcano. The only virgin he could find was his live-in girlfriend. His attempt failed because she had had a boyfriend before him, but he couldn’t believe that was inflatable and had a lot of pinhole punctures, so he made his map.

John another
August 4, 2013 8:23 pm

Eli Rabett says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm
“Basically what you get when the ice caps melt, this is more or less the North American Inland Sea during Cretaceous, when, of course, as WUWT has been telling us CO2 was 10 X pre-industrial. Of course, it does take a while to melt the ice caps.”
Just exactly how long does it take for the ice caps to melt? Given that this is the shortest summer on record for the Arctic (less than half of the usual 90 days above freezing, not that sea ice matters for sea level) and the Antarctic ice is growing quite nicely. Just how long in geologic terms will it take for St. George, Utah to sink below the surface of the ‘Gulf of Arizona’ while the Communist bastions of Boston, NYC, DC, Miami, LA, San Francisco and Seattle mysteriously remain safe?
Fishing for the fools much are ye? Nah

David Ball
August 4, 2013 8:44 pm

Perhaps the installation of gills will be covered under obamacare. Problem solved.

Gunga Din
August 4, 2013 9:14 pm

David Ball says:
August 4, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Perhaps the installation of gills will be covered under obamacare. Problem solved.

Our future under Obama’s care.

August 4, 2013 9:26 pm

Laughable map. Maybe if the Mid Continent Rift system reactivates in conjunction with the Reel foot rift… and you run it out a few million years.
And there is no manifestation of the Rio Grande Rift. I’ve heard tale that it will eventually eat the Rockies (and Colorado).
Yep… quite laughable.

August 4, 2013 9:43 pm

How are ancient ocean levels determined when parts of continents are undergoing uplift and/or subduction?

August 4, 2013 10:00 pm

Cool – NYC at sea level is still there. Calgary, home of the “eeeeevil” oil companies and architects of the even more “eeeeevil” Keystone XL pipeline, is safe and sound at 3500 ft.
All of the left coast “progressive” cities are still there and healthy and, presumably, choking on their overdose of Smug.
This kind of stuff is hilarious… the people who “deny” millions of years of history calling those who disagree with their ridiculous little “climate change” scam “deniers”… while wanting to see them all dead and/or gone… you can’t help but laugh.

ME Wood
August 4, 2013 10:16 pm

This almost looks as if it comes from the wonderful site Eye of the Tiber. q,v
where lunatic reports in the press about the Church and other oddities on the U.S religious scene are satirised with hilarious “pseudo reports” almost everyday. If you can bring yourselves to look at it you are in for a cheerful time.

UK Sceptic
August 5, 2013 12:46 am

It doesn’t pay to mock the afflicted. Why? Because my sides are aching from laughing at so much concentrated stupidity crammed into this dehumanist virtual java emporium.

August 5, 2013 1:48 am

Early in the thread, the Robin pulls the mask off the villain.

Bruce Cobb
August 5, 2013 4:23 am

I keep looking for what’s funny about it. Sorry, but I don’t see it. If it’s meant as a joke, or as satire, it fails miserably.

August 5, 2013 4:51 am

Bruce Cobb, it’s not funny on its own, in fact it’s just stupid.
What I personally find funny about it is in the same vein as the 10:10 red button ads exploding the unbelievers. It’s a transparent view into the brains of someone who is probably educated, but unutterably stupid. It’s a demonstration that their idea of winning an argument is to kill all of their opponents. In an earlier age this might have been a glove slapped across the face.
It’s the same kind of funny as people who want terrorism stopped but complain that communications are being monitored, or complain about airport security. The same people who think terrorists needs to be “understood”, while marching in a gay pride parade.
It’s funny because it’s stupid. While I don’t laugh at stupid people, I laugh at some of the things they do.

August 5, 2013 6:04 am

Granted, California is a big ag state, how will this new US of A feed itself after much of the Southern and Northern High Plains are gone? Living off of grapes and almonds will get old after awhile. Subtract the lumber, cotton, peanuts, and live stock from the Southern States (not to mention the BMW and Mercedes factories located there), and the remaining Blue States will not only be hungrier but also poorer. Be careful for what you wish for.

more soylent green!
August 5, 2013 7:06 am

This is just wishful thinking. They would love it if the heartland of America evil, tea-party votin’ red states were swallowed up by the sea.
Typically, they don’t think those things through. Who would do all the work if the Red States were gone?

August 5, 2013 9:00 am

This persons hate came before the object of his hatred. So wicked and petty that most anyone would do. Climate Skeptics are IT though.
“Jehovah God”
This is a new one on me.
I think it’s redundant.

S M Wisbith
August 5, 2013 9:08 am

If you expand the map and look at the St Louis region you will see that the Missouri River runs into then out of the new sea. Are we now to presume that global warming will also cause water to run uphill?

August 5, 2013 10:09 am

I left a comment that was censored/not posted, basically it read how I despaired at people who were not sufficiently disciplined emotionally to be able to allow logic to trump reason, I quoted Alexander Solzhenitsyn :
It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes: we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions – especially selfish ones.
I then went on to ask why they malinged someone because they had an opposing view that might be proven correct.
The reason for debate is obviously lost on these people from the harsh and completely inaccurate description by other comments relating to Anthony and WUWT.

Mark Bofill
August 5, 2013 11:02 am

David in Cal says:
August 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Oh, come on. This is obviously a kind of joke.

When you actually live in Spamelot, suddenly Monty Python skits stop seeming funny.
Strange but true.

R. Hafer
August 5, 2013 11:04 am

I’m pretty sure that this is version of the ‘Edgar Cayce Flood Map’ based on his prediction of Atlantis rising.

August 5, 2013 11:17 am

A flood of stupidity has already engulfed the “believers”.
Maybe this is pushback for always being “wet”.

Hot under the collar
August 5, 2013 1:49 pm

I have never seen such astounding, authoritative and convincing science. I am sure 95% of alarmists must agree with you. Alright I give in, you’ve convinced me, you have the consensus the science is settled. Run for the hills immediately!

August 10, 2013 8:58 am

This is going to create a whole lot of waterfront property in Canada along (what used to be) the US border. Lots of opportunity to get in early, though it is going to make it tougher to skoot over the border to get some cheap US gas.

August 10, 2013 9:25 am

Eli Rabett says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Of course, it does take a while to melt the ice caps.
The icing of Antarctica began with ice-rafting from middle Eocene times about 45.5 million years ago[3] and escalated inland widely during the Eocene–Oligocene extinction event about 34 million years ago. CO2 levels were then about 760 ppm[4] and had been decreasing from earlier levels in the thousands of ppm.

Its going to take a couple of weeks or more before we reach the 760ppm and Antarctica starts melting. After that we’ve probably only got 10 or 20 thousand years before things get serious. Best to move to higher ground now.

Verified by MonsterInsights