Now enviro-policy to “end light pollution” has France on track to look like North Korea at night:
From The Guardian:
Lights out – France to force shops and offices to go dark overnight
French light pollution law is expected to save 250,000 tonnes of C02 a year
The French ecology minister, Delphine Batho, said she hoped the law would change attitudes in France and help the country become a pioneer in reducing light pollution.
Full story here.
We’ve come so far to rid ourselves of the dark, only to have the lights forcibly turned off by zealots.
Luboš Motl writes about the issue
“Light pollution” is quoted as another justification. I’ve seen some movies about “light pollution” and although one could a priori think that this could be a legitimate concern, I think that all the people claiming that light pollution is a problem are Luddite lunatics, too. There’s just lots of places on Earth where light pollution is nearly non-existent. You may still go there. It’s probably not too important because not too many people are going there.
Maybe “bad astronomer” Phil Plait will move to France or North Korea now, we can only hope.
Locally, the idea of turning off lights has found favor in plans forged by the lunatic fringe that inhabits our town’s “sustainability committee”, run by Former Mayor Ann Schwab, who managed to sneak in the “climate action plan” in a meeting few attended on the night of the last election in 2012. Predictably, it was approved.
Since these folks on the council seem to worship the European way of doing things, I predict they’ll soon follow with the same edict. We have a lone volunteer staffed Chico Community Observatory in the town’s Bidwell park that they fought tooth and nail 10 years ago (I know, I was a part of it then), and they’ll now likely use it as a means to an end since, “Light pollution” was discussed at the onset.
I think this needs a deeper look. Night lights are usually run on base load power stations which cannot be turned off willy nilly. They have too much thermal inertia and sudden turn on and turn offs causes the turbine blades to distort during fast heat up or cool down. If they are running nuclear as base load then turning off the lights will save no CO2. If they are coal fired they will just have to keep runnig as spinning reserve and therefore save no CO2. Maybe there is some gas they can turn off?
The present government of France is socialist, incompetent, ecoloon and deeply unpopular and not surprisingly the economy is close to going into free fall.
You don’t have to be totally insane to think about starting up a business in France, but it helps, due to the plethora of labour laws savagely discriminating against those who want to work.
As for turning off the lights, as pointed out several times earlier here, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in a nuclear powered society.
I’m not in favor of more government regulation, but you can put me down as one of those “luddites” that wouldn’t mind seeing more attention paid to the fact that we, often needlessly and wastefully, light up the evening sky. Cities and residents can even save a little money by putting a little more thought into lighting.
“…France on track to look like North Korea at night…”
or New Orleans, for that matter.
I don’t want to have to travel to special dark areas to see the milky way.
Every time I get to a decent dark spot I am astonished ever yet again, decently directed street lights would help a bit, but just the huge glow of humanity in the cities makes travel a necessity. I’ll travel. But I’ll bitch too.
Interior lights in offices and other non-residential buildings will have to be switched off an hour after the last employee leaves
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So I guess the night cleaning crews would be employees…
I can understand the desire to see the night sky — but how much of that ‘light pollution’ is from interior office lights? Seems to me that most of the so-called pollution IS from street lights or security lights and, frankly, I LIKE those.
i don’t know if anyone mentioned the fact that the French produce some 80% of their electrical power by means of nuclear power stations that produce zilch CO2 emissions. So, switching off the electric lights in France to reduce CO2 emissions is a big lie. Fact is that the French government is broke.
There is no state on this planet that has taken a left turn and not found itself worse than it started.
Now this is something worth while. It’s ridiculous the amount of light pollution out there. But it’s bad news for people that are afraid of the dark. In my area I’d love to see the end of floodlights enshrining those obnoxious McMansions in 1000s of watts of light all night long.
Count me in as wanting a reduction in unnecessary light. Must be no crime during the day with all that light to scare the criminals.
I’m all in favour of any moves towards reducing light pollution, or any other pollution (wearing my radio amateur hat, particularly that of the short wave). As several English amateur astronomers have already noted above, the night sky is a rare sight in the UK, plus as a local taxpayer I want to see that money paying to light the streets, not the sky. Makes sense all ways.
Actually, as an amateur astronomer, i find light pollution to be a very real problem. Also, lots of people have disconnected from astronomy and science as they can’t even see the night sky anymore, it is as if they don’t know it exists.
Light pollution can be managed by turing lights towards the ground, not up. You will find it more effective that way too, it will not blind your night vision as direct light does.
As for CO2 as an excuse? forget it.
MarkW commented on
Maybe in professional astronomy, but there are a lot of amateurs out there. I live between two cities, and I don’t want to have to drive for hours just to find dark skies.
I predict a jump in petty crime and vandalism and increased flashlight sales. Gun sales should also rise. A midnight stroll along the Seine will be even more exciting.
The story is not about street lighting, but shop window displays and lights left on in un-occupied offices if you actually read it.
Rhoda R says:
February 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm
But there are lights with shrouds that block much of the light pollution from those types of lights.
I live between two cities that have huge light domes, but I live next to a national park which gives me better skies than would be expected from my location, except for the driving range with the stadium lights(summer), and the two ski resorts, and runs stadium lights pointed at a snow covered mountain until about 2:00 am (winter).
Darkness works both ways, the bad guys can’t see the people to mug. That aspect aside, I too would like to see the night sky. I sailed overnight offshore some time ago. I had forgotten just how beautiful the night was. It was as if someone had taken a paint roller, dip it into a bucket of stars then painted the night sky.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and light pollution was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be dark: and there was darkness. And God saw the light pollution, that it was wicked: and God divided the light pollution from the dark.
I know it is blasphemous. However, not more so than the very concept of “light pollution”, which goes against millennia of divine wisdom.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (which we have aplenty)
Wait until they get all the “smart meters” installed. ];{
Alfred
You’re off base in complaining about this. Just because THEY chose to interpret this in the context of CO2 and the rest of that BS doesn’t mean that we have to. Light pollution is its own issue, ‘global warming’ be hanged.
Light is pollution, when you don’t want that light. If your neighbor blares his stereo at your bedroom window at 3AM, you can call the cops. Rightly, they will do something about the fact that he is intruding on your peaceful use of your own property with sound pollution, likely disturbing your sleep. But if he shines a #$%^ing floodlight at your bedroom window at 3AM, also disturbing your sleep, he will likely get away with it.
Let alone the true loss of the beauty of the night sky for most people. 80% of Americans live in metro areas, and do not have the opportunity to view creation from their own back yards. I have a difficult time enjoying the towns 4th of July fireworks for the neighbors’ porch lights shining onto my property, nevermind a meteor shower. Getting to the country is inconvenient for all, and near impossible for many. Not to mention that when you get there, every $%^&ing farmhouse has a streetlight next to it.
So much of this can be avoided, by simply not wasting light and illuminating only that which you intend to (and which is yours to illuminate).
Hard enough already to avoid the potholes in the City of Light
I hope this is not the shape of things to come:
“The lamps are going out all over Europe; we shall not see them lit again in our time”
(Sir Edward Grey, outbreak of WW1)
Not open warfare of course, but idealogical and economic – just as bad, the one often leads to the other.
I don’t care for how the French are going about it (but, hey, socialism). I *do* care that light pollution in DFW is so bad that I practically have to have blackout curtains so my kid can sleep at night — seriously, we have not a light on my street, and I am in NO danger of stubbing my toe in the yard at night.
Light pollution is a real issue for astronomers, both for amateurs and for professional installations that have had nearby cities grow up in size over the decades. There are a number of ways to reduce light diffusion up into the night sky, while still having plenty of safe lighting shining down toward the ground where it is needed. This is a well known issue in astronomy circles and should not be dismissed without understanding the issues.
Whether the French news item Anthony highlights is really an attempt to improve astronomical observation conditions or a back door attempt to push some green agenda is a separate issue . . .
I bet the night sky is amazing in North Korea, especially when there’s no moon. The only dark sky near me is a 2 hour drive.