Global Warming: Anthropogenic or Not?

clip_image002

AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW FROM DOWN UNDER

Professor Robert (Bob) Carter

Geologist & environmental scientist

Katharine Hayhoe, PhD, who wrote the December AITSE piece “Climate Change: Anthropogenic or Not?”, is an atmospheric scientist and director of the Climate Science Center at Texas Tech University. She is senior author of the book “A Climate for Change: Global Warming Facts for Faith-Based Decisions”.

I am a senior research geologist who has published more than 100 peer-reviewed papers on palaeo-environmental and palaeo-climatic topics and also author of the book, “Climate: the Counter Consensus”.

Quite clearly, Dr. Hayhoe and I are both credible professional scientists. Given our training and research specializations, we are therefore competent to assess the evidence regarding the dangerous global warming that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) alleges is being caused by industrial carbon dioxide emissions.

Yet at the end of her article Dr. Hayhoe recommends for further reading the websites RealClimate.org and SkepticalScience.com, whereas here at the outset of writing my own article I recommend the websites wattsupwiththat.com and www.thegwpf.org (Global Warming Policy Foundation). To knowledgeable readers, this immediately signals that Dr. Hayhoe and I have diametrically opposing views on the global warming issue.

The general public finds it very hard to understand how such strong disagreement can exist between two equally qualified persons on a scientific topic, a disagreement that is manifest also on the wider scene by the existence of equivalent groups of scientists who either support or oppose the views of the IPCC about dangerous anthropogenic (human-caused) global warming (DAGW).

In this article I shall try to summarize what the essential disagreement is between these two groups of scientists, and show how it has come to be misrepresented in the public domain.

Common ground amongst DAGW protagonists

Though you wouldn’t know it from the antagonistic nature of public discussions about global warming, a large measure of scientific agreement and shared interpretation exists amongst nearly all scientists who consider the issue. The common ground, much of which was traversed by Dr. Hayhoe in her article, includes:

· that climate has always changed and always will,

· that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and warms the lower atmosphere,

· that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere,

· that a global warming of around 0.5OC occurred in the 20th century, but

· that global warming has ceased over the last 15 years.

The scientific argument over DAGW is therefore about none of these things. Rather, it is almost entirely about three other, albeit related, issues. They are:

· the amount of net warming that is, or will be, produced by human-related emissions,

· whether any actual evidence exists for dangerous warming of human causation over the last 50 years, and

· whether the IPCC’s computer models can provide accurate climate predictions 100 years into the future.

Dr. Hayhoe’s answers to those questions would probably be along the line of: substantial, lots and yes. My answers would be: insignificant, none and no.

What can possibly explain such disparate responses to a largely agreed set of factual climate data?

How does science work?

Arguments about global warming, or more generally about climate change, are concerned with a scientific matter. Science deals with facts, experiments and numerical representations of the natural world around us. Science does not deal with emotions, beliefs or politics, but rather strives to analyse matters dispassionately and in an objective way, such that in consideration of a given set of facts two different practitioners might come to the same interpretation; and, yes, I am aware of the irony of that statement in the present context.

Which brings us to the matter of Occam’s Razor and the null hypothesis. William of Occam (1285-1347) was an English Franciscan monk and philosopher to whom is attributed the saying ‘Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate’, which translates as ‘Plurality should not be posited without necessity.’ This is a succinct statement of the principle of simplicity, or parsimony, that was first developed by Aristotle and which has today come to underlie all scientific endeavour.

The phrase ‘Occam’s Razor’ is now generally used as shorthand to represent the fundamental scientific assumption of simplicity. To explain any given set of observations of the natural world, scientific method proceeds by erecting, first, the simplest possible explanation (hypothesis) that can explain the known facts. This simple explanation, termed the null hypothesis, then becomes the assumed interpretation until additional facts emerge that require modification of the initial hypothesis, or perhaps even invalidate it altogether.

Given the great natural variability exhibited by climate records, and the failure to date to compartmentalize or identify a human signal within them, the proper null hypothesis – because it is the simplest consistent with the known facts – is that global climate changes are presumed to be natural, unless and until specific evidence is forthcoming for human causation.

It is one of the more extraordinary facts about the IPCC that the research studies it favours mostly proceed using an (unjustified) inversion of the null hypothesis  – namely that global climate changes are presumed to be due to human-related carbon dioxide emissions, unless and until specific evidence indicates otherwise.

What hypothesis do we wish to test?

Though climate science overall is complex, the greenhouse hypothesis itself is straightforward and it is relatively simple to test it, or its implications, against the available data. First, though, we need to be crystal clear about precisely what we mean by the term.

In general communication, and in the media, the terms greenhouse and greenhouse hypothesis have come to carry a particular vernacular meaning – almost independently of their scientific derivation. When an opinion poll or a reporter solicits information on what members of the public think about the issue they ask questions such as “do you believe in global warming”, “do you believe in climate change” or “do you believe in the greenhouse effect”.

Leaving aside the issue that science is never about belief, all such questions are actually coded ones, being understood by the public to mean “is dangerous global warming being caused by human-related emissions of carbon dioxide”. Needless to say, this is a different, albeit related, question. These and other sloppy ambiguities (“carbon” for “carbon dioxide”, for example) are in daily use in the media, and they lead to great confusion in the public discussion about climate change; they also undermine the value of nearly all opinion poll results.

The DAGW hypothesis that I want to test here is precisely and only “that dangerous global warming is being caused, or will be, by human-related carbon dioxide emissions”. To be “dangerous”, at a minimum the change must exceed the magnitude or rate of warmings that are known to be associated with normal weather and climatic variability.

What evidence can we use to test the DAGW hypothesis?

Many different lines of evidence can be used to test the DAGW hypothesis. Here I have space to present just five, all of which are based upon real world empirical data. For more information, please read both Dr. Hayhoe’s and my book.

Consider the following tests:

(i)     Over the last 16 years, global average temperature, as measured by both thermometers and satellite sensors, has displayed no statistically significant warming; over the same period, atmospheric carbon dioxide has increased by 10%.

Large increases in carbon dioxide have therefore not only failed to produce dangerous warming, but failed to produce any warming at all. Hypothesis fails.

(ii)   During the 20th century, a global warming of between 0.4O C and 0.7O C occurred, at a maximum rate, in the early decades of the century, of about 1.7O C/century. In comparison, our best regional climate records show that over the last 10,000 years natural climate cycling has resulted in temperature highs up to at least 1O C warmer than today, at rates of warming up to  2.5O C/century.

In other words, both the rate and magnitude of 20th century warming falls well within the envelope of natural climate change. Hypothesis fails, twice.

(iii)  If global temperature is controlled primarily by atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, then changes in carbon dioxide should precede parallel changes in temperature.

In fact, the opposite relationship applies at all time scales. Temperature change precedes carbon dioxide change by about 5 months during the annual seasonal cycle, and by about 700-1000 years during ice age climatic cycling. Hypothesis fails.

(iv)  The IPCC’s computer general circulation models, which factor in the effect of increasing carbon dioxide, project that global warming should be occurring at a rate of +2.0O C/century.

In fact, no warming at all has occurred in either the atmosphere or the ocean for more than the last decade. The models are clearly faulty, and allocate too great a warming effect for the extra carbon dioxide (technically, they are said to overestimate the climate sensitivity). Hypothesis fails.

(v)    The same computer models predict that a fingerprint of greenhouse-gas-induced warming will be the creation of an atmospheric hot spot at heights of 8-10 km in equatorial regions, and enhanced warming also near both poles.

Given that we already know that the models are faulty, it shouldn’t surprise us to discover that direct measurements by both weather balloon radiosondes and satellite sensors show the absence of surface warming in Antarctica, and a complete absence of the predicted low latitude atmospheric hot spot. Hypothesis fails, twice.

One of the 20th century’s greatest physicists, Richard Feynman, observed about science that:

In general we look for a new law by the following process. First we guess it. Then we compute the consequences of the guess to see what would be implied if this law that we guessed is right. Then we compare the result of the computation to nature, with experiment or experience; compare it directly with observation, to see if it works.

It’s that simple statement that is the key to science. It does not make any difference how beautiful your guess is. It does not make any difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is. If it disagrees with experiment it is wrong.

None of the five tests above supports or agrees with the predictions implicit in the greenhouse hypothesis as stated above. Richard Feynman is correct to advise us that therefore the hypothesis is invalid, and that many times over.

Summary

The current scientific reality is that the IPCC’s hypothesis of dangerous global warming has been repeatedly tested, and fails. Despite the expenditure of large sums of money over the last 25 years (more than $100 billion),  and great research effort by IPCC-related and other (independent) scientists, to date no scientific study has established a certain link between changes in any significant environmental parameter and human-caused carbon dioxide emissions.

In contrast, the null hypothesis that the global climatic changes that we have observed over the last 150 years (and continue to observe today) are natural in origin has yet to be disproven. As summarised by an seo consultant in the reports of the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), literally thousands of papers published in refereed journals contain facts or writings consistent with the null hypothesis, and plausible natural explanations exist for all the post-1850 global climatic changes that have been described so far.

Why is this conclusion not generally understood?

I commented earlier that science is not about emotion or politics, despite which it is uncomfortably true also that public discussion of the global warming issue is conducted far more in accordance with those criteria than it is about science. As discussed at more length in my book, there are three prime reasons for this.

First, as a branch of the United Nations, the IPCC is itself an intensely political and not a scientific body. To boot, the IPCC charter requires that it investigate not climate change in the round, but solely global warming caused by human greenhouse emissions.

Second, from local green activist groups up to behemoth NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, over the last 20 years the environmental movement has espoused saving the planet from global warming as its leit motif. This has had two devastating results. One is that radical environmentalists have worked relentlessly to sow misinformation about global warming in both the public domain and the education system. And the other is that, faced with this widespread propagandization of public opinion and young persons, and by also by strong lobbying from powerful self-interested groups like government research scientists, alternative energy providers and financial marketeers, politicians have had no choice but to fall into line. Whatever their primary political philosophy, all active politicians are daily mindful of the need to assuage the green intimidation and bullying to which they and their constituents are incessantly subjected.

Third, and probably most influential of all, with very few exceptions major media outlets have provided unceasing support for measures to “stop global warming”. This behaviour appears to be driven by a combination of the liberal and green personal beliefs of most reporters, and the commercial nouse of experienced editors who understand that alarmist environmental reporting sells both product and advertising space.

But given that the science remains uncertain, shouldn’t we give earth the benefit of the doubt?

This famous slogan (and note its deliberately emotive phrasing) is attributed to News Corporation’s Rupert Murdoch; it bears all the hallmarks of having been produced by a green focus group or advertising agency. The catchy phrase also reveals a profound misunderstanding of the real climatic risks faced by our societies, because it assumes that global warming is more dangerous, or more to be feared, than is global cooling; in reality, the converse is likely to be true.

It must be recognized that the theoretical hazard of dangerous human-caused global warming is but one small part of a much wider climate hazard that all scientists agree upon, which is the dangerous natural weather and climatic events that Nature intermittently presents us with – and always will. It is absolutely clear from, for example, the 2005 Hurricane Katrina and 2012 Hurricane Sandy disasters in the US, the 2007 floods in the United Kingdom and the tragic bushfires in Australia in 2003 (Canberra), 2009 (Victoria) and in January this year (widespread), that the governments of even advanced, wealthy countries are often inadequately prepared for climate-related disasters of natural origin.

We need to do better, and squandering money to give earth the benefit of the doubt based upon an unjustifiable assumption that dangerous warming will shortly resume is exactly the wrong type of “picking winners” approach.

Because many scientists, including leading solar physicists, currently argue that the position that the Earth currently occupies in the solar cycle implies that the most likely climatic trend over the next several decades is one of significant cooling rather than warming.  Meanwhile, the IPCC’s computer modellers assure us with all the authority at their command that global warming will shortly resume – just you wait and see.

The reality is, then, that no scientist on the planet can tell you with credible probability whether the climate in 2030 will be cooler or warmer than today. In such circumstances the only rational conclusion to draw is that we need to be prepared to react to either warming or cooling over the next several decades, depending upon what Nature chooses to serve up to us.

What is the best way forward?

Given that we cannot predict what future climate will be, do we still need national climate policies at all?

Indeed we do, for a primary government duty of care is to protect the citizenry and the environment from the ravages of natural climatic events. What is needed is not unnecessary and penal measures against carbon dioxide emissions, but instead a prudent and cost-effective policy of preparation for, and response to, all climatic events and hazards as and when they develop.

As Ronald Brunner and Amanda Lynch have argued in their recent book, Adaptive Governance and Climate Change, and many other scientists have supported too:

We need to use adaptive governance to produce response programs that cope with hazardous climate events as they happen, and that encourage diversity and innovation in the search for solutions. In such a fashion, the highly contentious ‘global warming’ problem can be recast into an issue in which every culture and community around the world has an inherent interest.

Climate hazard is both a geological and meteorological issue. Geological hazards are mostly dealt with by providing civil defense authorities and the public with accurate, evidence-based information regarding events such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, storms and floods (which represent climatic as well as weather events), and by mitigating and adapting to the effects when an event occurs.

New Zealand’s GeoNet natural hazard network is a world-best-practice example of how to proceed. GeoNet is New Zealand’s national natural hazard monitoring agency. GeoNet operates networks of geophysical instruments to detect, analyse and respond to earthquakes, volcanic activity, landslides and tsunami. The additional risk of longer-term climate change, which GeoNet currently doesn’t cover, differs from most other natural hazards only in that it occurs over periods of decades to hundreds or thousands of years. This difference is not one of kind, and neither should be our response planning.

The appropriate response to climate hazard, then, is national policies based on preparing for and adapting to all climate events as and when they happen, and irrespective of their presumed cause. Every country needs to develop its own understanding of, and plans to cope with, the unique combination of climate hazards that apply within its boundaries. The planned responses should be based upon adaptation, with mitigation where appropriate to cushion citizens who are affected in an undesirable way.

The idea that there can be a one-size-fits-all global solution to deal with just one possible aspect of future climate change, as recommended by the IPCC and favoured by green activists and most media commentators, fails entirely to deal with the real climate and climate-related hazards to which we are all exposed every day.

—————————————————————————————————————

Robert (Bob) Carter is a marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than 40 years professional experience who has held academic positions at the University of Otago (Dunedin) and James Cook University (Townsville), where he was Professor and Head of School of Earth Sciences between 1981 and 1999. His career has included periods as a Commonwealth Scholar (Cambridge University), a Nuffield Fellow (Oxford University) and an Australian Research Council Special Investigator. Bob has acted as an expert witness on climate change before the U.S. Senate Committee of Environment & Public Works, the Australian and N.Z. parliamentary Select Committees into emissions trading, and was a primary science witness in the U.K. High Court case of Dimmock v. H.M.’s Secretary of State for Education, the 2007 judgement from which identified nine major scientific errors in Mr Al Gore’s film “An Inconvenient Truth“. Carter is author of the book, Climate: the Counter Consensus (2010, Stacey International Ltd., London).

4 2 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

246 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
January 31, 2013 8:55 am

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 8:32 am
Vukcevic : unique planetary formula describing the 105 year periodicity
[…]Whel known group of the pseudo-scientists, among them the old Ken McCracken ex-NASA’s scientist, Beer and Steinhilber are now subscribing to the ‘planetary hypothesis’.

They advocate 88-yr cycle…

January 31, 2013 9:25 am

lsvalgaard says: January 31, 2013 at 8:55 am
……..
Yes, I know, 88 yr is not in the 1700-2010 data, so it must be from proxies, but they do go for 104 years too, they got one wrong one correct (Alzheimer’s?).
Are you going to write a rebuttal. Svalgaard of Stanford shouldn’t have any of it, or you are happy just with giving hard time to Henry P and myself ?

January 31, 2013 9:48 am

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 9:25 am
Yes, I know, 88 yr is not in the 1700-2010 data, so it must be from proxies, but they do go for 104 years too, they got one wrong one correct (Alzheimer’s?).
If you don’t have 88-yr [from planets] and they do [from planets, their Figure 4], then one is wrong or both. Which is it?

January 31, 2013 9:54 am

As one who was formerly 100% convinced by the AGW hypothesis, I am beginning to have my doubts. I do, however, remain convinced that AGW (true or not) is a good and perhaps necessary motivator for our transition away from fossil fuels.
We can argue forever about available reserves, but conservative estimates give us perhaps 50 years of oil, 100 years of natural gas, and 300 years of coal. As we pursue more difficult deposits, financial and environmental costs will increase. To avoid a crash of civilization (or at least a dramatic decline in global standard of living), we NEED to develop alternatives BEFORE fossil fuel prices rise high enough that we can’t afford it. It takes decades or more to transition energy infrastructure. Thus I am strongly in favor of incentives/taxes that favor renewable energy over fossil fuels (especially oil), regardless of whether AGW is a valid hypothesis. If AGW motivation can help us along this road and has at least some chance of being true (precautionary principle), then I am in favor of keeping it in public discourse. Not as a “we must act now or die” scare tactic, but as one of several issues prodding us to transition from finite to infinite (renewable) energy resources.

Reply to  Markael Luterra
January 31, 2013 10:35 am

@Markael Luterra – The argument of the remaining reserves of fossil fuels being an incentive to find alternative solutions is a red herring. Back in the 19th century, the “remaining reserves” of whale oil was rapidly diminishing. What happened? As the price went up, enterprising people looked for alternatives, and found them. Were they cost effective? not at first, but as the price of whale oil continued to increase, the cost of the alternatives became more competitive, until finally whale oil was no longer economically feasible, but the alternatives were.
The price of fossil fuels will follow the same pattern. But here is the kicker. it will happen gradually and not shock the economies of the world into a massive depression. As the price of fossil fuels climbs due to scarcity and difficulty in extraction and refining, alternatives, some already in existence today, will gain in competitiveness, until they become more competitive, and more economical. At that time, they will supplant fossil fuels. But the process will be gradual, and not a sudden devaluation of total economies.
That is why I am not worried about fossil fuels and their availability. Economic laws of supply and demand will eventually cause them to become too costly to be feasible, and other sources will then be in wide use and cheaper.

Bart
January 31, 2013 10:12 am

Edim says:
January 31, 2013 at 4:52 am
I would make one caveat: the linearized model is substantially valid in the modern era since 1958. However, a change in state could change the local equilibrium temperature and/or the slope of the model. The change might occur slowly and smoothly, or it might be abrupt. Looking at the data, there appear to be several spots where there are effectively step changes in the affine relationship, though they are small enough not to throw the model off by much.
This could be an illusion created by changes in the way measurements are constructed, e.g., with the addition and subtraction of monitoring stations or, of course, with continued fiddling of the numbers by the collecting agencies. Or, it could be an actual physical manifestation of changes in the transport mechanisms between sources and sinks. The modern era results could be an outcome of a surge of CO2 rich water in the underwater pipeline, which could dissipate in the coming years or could, though it seems less likely, surge even higher.
We cannot say for sure. The recent hiatus in the global temperature metric has coincided consistently with a hiatus in the rate of change of measured CO2. Assuming the conditions which prevail now continue into the near future,when temperatures start to go down, the rate of change should decrease, resulting in a marked reduction in the slope of the CO2 absolute level. So, we anticipate a divergence between the accumulated emissions line, which to all indicators looks like it will continue accelerating, versus a deceleration in the measured atmospheric concentration.

Bart
January 31, 2013 10:25 am

Markael Luterra says:
January 31, 2013 at 9:54 am
“I do, however, remain convinced that AGW (true or not) is a good and perhaps necessary motivator for our transition away from fossil fuels.”
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. That pithy bit of garage shop wisdom has firm grounding in experience. By fixing a problem which doesn’t exist, you create other problems which then have to be fixed.
Every action has a reaction, and a large portion of the problems which challenge us today are of our own creation, as reactive effects of things we tried to do previously.
Don’t do anything. You’re not, as Monty Python would say, qual-ee-fied. No insult intended. I am no expert, either.
But, leave the worry about obtaining energy to the professionals in the field who understand all the possibilities and ramifications. Do NOT give a bunch of additional power to government bureaucrats and power mongers, who are even more clueless than you or I on the subject, so that they can exercise even more power over your life. Because exercising power over your life is what they ARE expert at, and hence will be the major portion of any “solution” they attempt to enact.

richardscourtney
January 31, 2013 10:44 am

Markael Luterra:
Your post at January 31, 2013 at 9:54 am begins saying

As one who was formerly 100% convinced by the AGW hypothesis, I am beginning to have my doubts. I do, however, remain convinced that AGW (true or not) is a good and perhaps necessary motivator for our transition away from fossil fuels.
We can argue forever about available reserves, but conservative estimates give us perhaps 50 years of oil, 100 years of natural gas, and 300 years of coal. As we pursue more difficult deposits, financial and environmental costs will increase. To avoid a crash of civilization (or at least a dramatic decline in global standard of living), we NEED to develop alternatives BEFORE fossil fuel prices rise high enough that we can’t afford it.

Oh dear! ‘Peak Oil’ rises from the grave again. This really is the zombie that won’t stay dead.
The use of fossil fuels has done more to benefit human kind than anything else since the invention of agriculture. Your numbers about reserves don’t mean what you think. And – at present – there is no possibility of significantly reducing the use of fossil fuels without a cost including the death of billions mostly children.
Importantly, there is no threat that we will run out of fossil fuels; none, zilch, nada.
‘Peak Oil’ has been refuted times without number on WUWT. Indeed, David Archibald has posted a series of articles promoting that nonsense and his arguments have all been trashed.
Use the WUWT search facility and read the threads which discuss the matter. Your fears will be removed by knowledge of reality.
Richard

January 31, 2013 10:52 am

lsvalgaard says:
January 31, 2013 at 9:48 am
If you don’t have 88-yr [from planets] and they do [from planets, their Figure 4], then one is wrong or both. Which is it?
Of course they are.
The 88 year cycle comes from the Earth’s magnetic field variability, modulating GCRs affecting both C14 and 10Be nucleation.
Here are details for your ‘rebuttal’,
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/MS.htm
I am looking forward to read it.

January 31, 2013 11:14 am

Henry@M.Luterra
With nuclear power they bury the problems in the soil, (the waste), which will most certainly become a big headache for future generations.
Better to put more CO2 in the air:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/24/the-earths-biosphere-is-booming-data-suggests-that-co2-is-the-cause-part-2/
Everything we eat and drink is made of sugars and starch (carbon) which has carbon dioxide as the building block.
Coal does have problems (like sulphur, heavy metals, etc) but oil and gas are just great!
Scientists actually are missing a lot of burnt carbon, i.e. the CO2….it seems to have simply disappeared….I think I know where it went…..I have not seen any actual figures but I did observe that just about everybody I met wants more crops, more lawns and more trees. Places like Johannesburg and Las Vegas used to be deserts or semi deserts. Now they are all green. The oceans have become a lot greener due to the warming of the past;
My dogs did their things in the woods today and I thought: it helps the environment. CO2 is like dung in the air. I thank the Lord for water and carbon dioxide every day. Anyone asking for less of either must be daft….You don’t say anything bad about your father and mother?

January 31, 2013 12:02 pm

We need to be careful about demonizing nuclear waste. No, it’s not a problem technically, it’s a problem politically. If we reprocessed it like they do in France, we could extract about 8 time more energy from the spent fuel. But in the US, we don’t reprocess for the simple reason that people think nuclear is bad … and technically because reprocessing facilities allow you to remove the plutonium (which is created when the uranium breaks down into the “nuclear waste”).
Also – the waste from nuclear is concentrated and dense and takes up a relative small area to store it especially if you reprocess it.
I’m especially irritated when people point to Fukashima as proof that nuclear is bad. Less than a few people have died due to radiation and the radiation levels around Fukashima quickly went down to the SAME levels naturally ocuring in Denver, CO (due to large amounts of granite). Most of the people died in the tsunami itself and the rest of the people died due to the forced larger than needed scale evacuation process. Nothing to do with radiation. It’s just irrational fears.

January 31, 2013 12:13 pm

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 10:52 am
“If you don’t have 88-yr [from planets] and they do [from planets, their Figure 4], then one is wrong or both. Which is it?”
Of course they are. The 88 year cycle comes from the Earth’s magnetic field variability, modulating

So, you first use them as an argument for planetary control, then you say they are wrong. They get the 88-yr peak from the planetary torque [see Figure 4], not from the proxies. You see, this is a telltale mark of pseudo-science to do such things, but one, naturally expects that from you, and you deliver as expected. Now, continue to explain to Henry why he is wrong about the 88-yr cycle he claims. Another mark of pseudo-science is that one is careful not to criticize other pseudo-scientists.

January 31, 2013 12:47 pm

lsvalgaard says: January 31, 2013 at 12:13 pm
………
So clearly the torque is not the source, else it would show in the susnspot spectrum
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/MS.gif
but it does exist since it shows in the Earth’s field (see link), since the Earth’s field is generated by outer core circulation, which would also be subject to the torque.
So how sunspots are generated?
Evidently by electro and magnetic feedback between solar closed magnetic field (magnetic cloud, magnetic ropes from CMEs) and planetary magnetospheres:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LFC2.htm

January 31, 2013 12:51 pm

Correction:
Evidently by electro and magnetic feedback between solar closed magnetic field (magnetic cloud, magnetic ropes from CMEs) and planetary magnetospheres:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LFC2.htm
[Reply: Fixed. -ModE]

January 31, 2013 1:27 pm

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 12:47 pm
So how sunspots are generated?
Evidently by electro and magnetic feedback between solar closed magnetic field

No, that is not the way it works. You can learn more about this subject here http://solarphysics.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrsp-2011-3/

January 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Thanks Mod.
lsvalgaard says: January 31, 2013 at 12:13 pm
…… a telltale mark of pseudo-science to do such things
not the pseudo-science, but the ‘science- lite’ necessitated by the time factor.
Thanks for the remainder, so necessary correction is implemented:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/MS.htm
I only support my own hypothesis, one more brick in the wall, eliminating torque, gravity, angular momentum …only e-m planetary (magnetosphere) feedback still going strong.

January 31, 2013 1:59 pm

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 1:35 pm
I only support my own hypothesis, one more brick in the wall, eliminating torque, gravity, angular momentum …only e-m planetary (magnetosphere) feedback still going strong.
Of all the ones mentioned, yours is the least plausible and is the easiest to refute [as I have done repeatedly]. Yet another mark of a pseudo-scientist is being impervious to learning.

james griffin
January 31, 2013 3:24 pm

Like many people I started to really understand things so much better after I saw Bob’s presentation to colleagues in Australia. Simple and straightforward, describing something highly complex with the aid of graphs that were not too difficult to understand…and underpinned by his natural dry wit.

January 31, 2013 4:25 pm

vukcevic says:
January 31, 2013 at 1:35 pm
not the pseudo-science, but the ‘science-lite’ necessitated by the time factor
necessitated by the lack of basic knowledge

Keith
January 31, 2013 10:08 pm

Bob, on your test of modern changes in temperature lying well within the change seen historically over the Holocene, I agree, but you could also point out that the natural variability over a glacial / interglacial cycle is about 8 C.

Alan D McIntire
February 1, 2013 5:27 am

izen says:
January 30, 2013 at 6:01 am
Of course the warming IS statistically significant over 14 or 18 years, the 16 year period is a cherry pick.
I’m betting that this “statistical significance” is calculated by assuming that temperature is “stationary”. That means that each year is treated as an independent event. Obviously, from the existence of ice ages and warm periods over geological time, temperature is NOT stationary.
If you have a temp of 10 F below zero one day, it’s not going to suddenly jump to 70 F the next day- it takes time to warm up or cool down for days, years, and centuries. – consecutive years are NOT independent events.
I was playing with this concept by flipping coins, starting with zero, adding +1 to the running trend for heads, -1 for tails. After 30 flips,, when you check for runs you’ll usually get a “significant” at the 1% or 5% level despite the fact that you know that it’s highly unlikely that you’ll get significant trends from flipping coins.

February 1, 2013 7:41 am

Mario Lento says
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/30/global-warming-anthropogenic-or-not/#comment-1213454
Henry says.
Sorry. I have a completely different opinion/
I do not think that nuclear energy is safe and sound/
I note that Japan is now officially admitting that nuclear energy is not safe. Obviously, it never was safe in the first place, if only because of the waste problem. They (Japan) apparently have so much claims and clean up costs that they have decided to halt all plans for new nuclear plants.
Germany has stopped using nuclear energy. Holland has also shelved all plans for new plants. These people are not stupid.
The world is currently still sitting with two enormous problems in Chernobyl and Fukushima.
Obviously, nobody of those still singing the praises of nuclear energy is prepared to volunteer to clean up the mess that we still have there. The 300 people that were involved in the encapsulation of Chernobyl, have all since died. And the job actually needs to be re-done, but the government in the Ukraine does not have the money for it. They have asked the EU or AEC for money for this. Can you believe that? How much can it cost to re-encapsulate a plant if a whole country cannot pay for it?
The point is: would I ask somebody else to go and work in a nuclear plant if I myself would not be prepared to do it?
As it is written – do unto others as you would like done by others to you. Or the inverse of that. Anyways, you get my drift
I therefore decided to add my voice to those opposed to nuclear energy.I would not ask to stop all nuclear energy, if I had not carefully studied the possible alternatives>
1) There have been proposals to use “renewables” like wind. However, I found several report backs from those using wind, that wind power is very unreliable.(you could ask for reports from Denmark, UK or USA about this)
2) In the case of using solar power for generating electricity, it was found that this was very, very un-economical. Subsidies in Spain have recently been withdrawn. They cannot afford it anymore.
3) I don’t have a problem with us using coal, as, contrary to popular opinion, I found that your carbon footprint is actually good for life.
The pattern of global warming that I observed on earth, prove that it (i.e. the global warming) is mostly a natural process and has nothing to do with the increase in carbon dioxide.
People will have to get used to the idea that our carbon footprint (carbon dioxide) is actually good for life.
However, when using coal, you still sit with the heavy metals, sulphurous gases and carbon monoxide. These are poisons that have to be removed from the exhaust.This may prove a bit expensive.
4) Many discussions are currently going on about fracking and using gas for generating energy.
It has been proved all over the world that using gas is the most economical and efficient way to generate electricity. It also produces a lower carbon footprint. This might be important for those people who believe that God’s idea of creating life out of ( mostly water and) carbon dioxide was not such a good idea, i.e. the AGW and CAGW crowds.
It will also generate many more new jobs, which the country needs badly.
5) Obviously, where possible, hydro power is probably the cheapest, cleanest and most reliable option for generating electricity.
We should investigate if there are not more possibilities to pursue this option.
Henry

February 1, 2013 8:42 am

The rift is so deep, that this paradigm shift in itself pushes climate science over the edge, to the bottomless pit of pseudoscience.
As a person who has devoted countless years to large-scale computational modeling in physics, well said, sir!
rgb

February 1, 2013 8:46 am

I was playing with this concept by flipping coins, starting with zero, adding +1 to the running trend for heads, -1 for tails. After 30 flips,, when you check for runs you’ll usually get a “significant” at the 1% or 5% level despite the fact that you know that it’s highly unlikely that you’ll get significant trends from flipping coins.
Covered rather nicely in How to Lie with Statistics, actually. Data dredging is also so commonplace that it has become positively banal:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/significant.png
Hurricane Sandy does prove CAGW, doesn’t it?
rgb

February 1, 2013 9:37 am

But the nature of the atmosphere and its dynamics, albedo, aerosols, solar cycles ( . .better be careful, don’t want to upset Leif – which by the way I do respect his comments . . ) ocean cycles, and the other items I haven’t mentioned is clearly a much greater effect on climates – that is, unless there is real EVIDENCE to the contrary for the ‘DAGW or CAGW’ of CO2. . .
I don’t think Lief rejects the notion that solar cycles could have an important influence on climate, only that (outside of the direct variation of insolation itself, which is not negligible but is small and not obviously directed) that they are a simple/linear influence. Having looked over his arguments and the data he provides to back them up, they are certainly reasonable. There is no completely consistent link between solar state and climate state, although there are some intriguing correlations sometimes.
That doesn’t rule out a causal link, even a powerful and important causal link, only that such a link be simple. The climate system is multivariate, so it could be that coincidences between several more or less independent natural cycles are required for the solar state to become an important influence. That sort of thing would explain why sometimes (when the stars are aligned right) there appears to be a strong nonlinear influence, and others (when they aren’t) there isn’t. No simple one dimensional regression or fourier analysis is going to reveal complex causality of this sort, and honestly, I don’t think even multidimensional data analysis (difficult as it is) is likely to, but a good multidimensional theory that makes sense and works to predict the times that the sun seems to matter and distinguishes them from when it seems to matter less might convince even Lief. Unless/until such a thing is worked out, though, the sun doesn’t seem to function consistently as the primary determinant of climate variation as he can show with simple, direct, counterexamples.
There is still a fair bit of open science to do, though. Solar state does appear to affect the ionic chemistry of the upper atmosphere in nontrivial ways. At also appears to be moderately correlated with things that modulate at least some chemistry in the lower atmosphere. There are a few hypotheses out there for how this could affect weather/climate, none of them compelling (yet) but a number of them not really ruled out either — again things are too damn complicated and in a nonlinear system even small effects can be magnified by other aspects of the complex system, sometimes.
Back when I was younger, one of my professors (Dr. Richard Palmer, who taught me stat mech) studied spin glasses. Spin glasses are an archetypical “complex system” — basically they are a lattice of magnetic spins with a supposed nearest neighbor spin-spin interaction that is randomly either ferromagnetic (minimum energy alignment of the pair) or antiferromagnetic (minimum energy anti-alignment of the pair). The dynamics and statistical mechanics of a spin glass are very, very different from the stat mech of a simple ferromagnet or antiferromagnet.
Richard was one of the inventors of the concept of “frustration”. As one lowers the temperature of such a lattice, one encounters numerous places where one can decrease the bond energy between some pairs only at the expense of increasing it between others. Sets of bond pairs where this is the case are said to be “frustrated” as they can never be made completely happy. As the lattice tries to cool and find a new thermal equilibrium, frustration strongly inhibits the random sampling of configurations one usually uses in e.g. Monte Carlo to find a minimum energy state. The lattice hence exhibits what was dubbed broken ergodicity — its statistical fluctuation was effectively restricted to sub-manifolds of the phase space that randomly depended on seemingly tiny differences in the initial state — defects or patterns of frustration, once frozen in, could not easily be annealed out and the lattice would not proceed towards a true ground state, only a local low energy valley that might not even be particularly close to the ground state. All sorts of oddities in local dynamics were then enabled in this local “equilibria”, especially in the kinds of complex energy landscape that was thus established, where one could easily stay for a while in a seemingly stable state only to jump into another seemingly stable state with a completely different energy and/or other properties.
The point of this isn’t that the climate is a spin lattice, but the climate may well be like a spin lattice in a number of important ways. For example, there are “blocking highs” that form spontaneously in the usual way from the nucleation and growth of fluctuations that happen all the time in the environment dictated by the previous large scale pressure structure, time of year, and so on. Once formed, though, they can influence weather and climate (if climate is going to be what we call any sort of variation in global mean temperature) over an extraordinarily long time — the system can become “frustrated” in the sense that more normal short time scale fluctuations are suppressed and global weather (and hence climate) is dominated by a single thing. Weather being a hobby, I’ve observed this sort of thing a number of times over the last few years.
There are also things like ENSO — patterns that are stable enough to be given a name, yet unpredictable and chaotic and with an obvious long range, long time influence on the climate (let alone the weather). On top of this are many other drivers — changes in atmospheric chemistry, atmospheric composition, solar state, oceanic circulation patterns. The climate actually is so complex that it makes a mere spin glass look simple. In such a “frustrated” complex chaotic system, patterns like “if A and B but not C are all true, then increasing X will increase Y, otherwise Y will either not change or decrease” are if anything to be expected rather than come as a surprise.
This year a strong El Nino might raise global temperatures because of a matching blocking high that shifts global atmospheric circulation from one locally stable pattern to another before the El Nino dissipates. Another year an equally strong El Nino might not be accompanied by the blocking high and the patterns might go back to where they were, with no permanent effect. The blocking high itself might be a child of solar state, or the precise path of a hurricane the previous year. The hurricane might have had the path it did because of the infamous Brazilian Butterfly. Ozone levels over the antarctic might have affected the southern oscillation, which in turn dictated when Brazilian Butterflies hatch, and the southern oscillation might have inherited its state in part from the previous La Nina. Change any of these and the climate is entirely different — three years or five years or ten years or fifty years from now.
The lesson of the spin glass is that — it cannot be linearized. It is fundamentally, deeply nonlinear. Only if one looks at it locally in space and time will it — for a time — behave linearly, maybe, but then it can find a way to relieve frustration by changing this whole block of spins from up to down, which suddenly alters everything, and it shifts to some other regime of behavior. Strongly nonlinear systems don’t stand up well to linear analysis.
Yet I have the strong feeling that that is what climate science is all about. Turn the CO_2 dial, the temperature dial will follow.
Or not.
rgb

February 1, 2013 11:16 am

rgb
(dr Brown) says
Hurricane Sandy does prove CAGW, doesn’t it?
henry says
I wonder if you ever figured it out yet?
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2012/10/02/best-sine-wave-fit-for-the-drop-in-global-maximum-temperatures/#comment-192