Global Warming: Anthropogenic or Not?

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AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW FROM DOWN UNDER

Professor Robert (Bob) Carter

Geologist & environmental scientist

Katharine Hayhoe, PhD, who wrote the December AITSE piece “Climate Change: Anthropogenic or Not?”, is an atmospheric scientist and director of the Climate Science Center at Texas Tech University. She is senior author of the book “A Climate for Change: Global Warming Facts for Faith-Based Decisions”.

I am a senior research geologist who has published more than 100 peer-reviewed papers on palaeo-environmental and palaeo-climatic topics and also author of the book, “Climate: the Counter Consensus”.

Quite clearly, Dr. Hayhoe and I are both credible professional scientists. Given our training and research specializations, we are therefore competent to assess the evidence regarding the dangerous global warming that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) alleges is being caused by industrial carbon dioxide emissions.

Yet at the end of her article Dr. Hayhoe recommends for further reading the websites RealClimate.org and SkepticalScience.com, whereas here at the outset of writing my own article I recommend the websites wattsupwiththat.com and www.thegwpf.org (Global Warming Policy Foundation). To knowledgeable readers, this immediately signals that Dr. Hayhoe and I have diametrically opposing views on the global warming issue.

The general public finds it very hard to understand how such strong disagreement can exist between two equally qualified persons on a scientific topic, a disagreement that is manifest also on the wider scene by the existence of equivalent groups of scientists who either support or oppose the views of the IPCC about dangerous anthropogenic (human-caused) global warming (DAGW).

In this article I shall try to summarize what the essential disagreement is between these two groups of scientists, and show how it has come to be misrepresented in the public domain.

Common ground amongst DAGW protagonists

Though you wouldn’t know it from the antagonistic nature of public discussions about global warming, a large measure of scientific agreement and shared interpretation exists amongst nearly all scientists who consider the issue. The common ground, much of which was traversed by Dr. Hayhoe in her article, includes:

· that climate has always changed and always will,

· that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and warms the lower atmosphere,

· that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere,

· that a global warming of around 0.5OC occurred in the 20th century, but

· that global warming has ceased over the last 15 years.

The scientific argument over DAGW is therefore about none of these things. Rather, it is almost entirely about three other, albeit related, issues. They are:

· the amount of net warming that is, or will be, produced by human-related emissions,

· whether any actual evidence exists for dangerous warming of human causation over the last 50 years, and

· whether the IPCC’s computer models can provide accurate climate predictions 100 years into the future.

Dr. Hayhoe’s answers to those questions would probably be along the line of: substantial, lots and yes. My answers would be: insignificant, none and no.

What can possibly explain such disparate responses to a largely agreed set of factual climate data?

How does science work?

Arguments about global warming, or more generally about climate change, are concerned with a scientific matter. Science deals with facts, experiments and numerical representations of the natural world around us. Science does not deal with emotions, beliefs or politics, but rather strives to analyse matters dispassionately and in an objective way, such that in consideration of a given set of facts two different practitioners might come to the same interpretation; and, yes, I am aware of the irony of that statement in the present context.

Which brings us to the matter of Occam’s Razor and the null hypothesis. William of Occam (1285-1347) was an English Franciscan monk and philosopher to whom is attributed the saying ‘Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate’, which translates as ‘Plurality should not be posited without necessity.’ This is a succinct statement of the principle of simplicity, or parsimony, that was first developed by Aristotle and which has today come to underlie all scientific endeavour.

The phrase ‘Occam’s Razor’ is now generally used as shorthand to represent the fundamental scientific assumption of simplicity. To explain any given set of observations of the natural world, scientific method proceeds by erecting, first, the simplest possible explanation (hypothesis) that can explain the known facts. This simple explanation, termed the null hypothesis, then becomes the assumed interpretation until additional facts emerge that require modification of the initial hypothesis, or perhaps even invalidate it altogether.

Given the great natural variability exhibited by climate records, and the failure to date to compartmentalize or identify a human signal within them, the proper null hypothesis – because it is the simplest consistent with the known facts – is that global climate changes are presumed to be natural, unless and until specific evidence is forthcoming for human causation.

It is one of the more extraordinary facts about the IPCC that the research studies it favours mostly proceed using an (unjustified) inversion of the null hypothesis  – namely that global climate changes are presumed to be due to human-related carbon dioxide emissions, unless and until specific evidence indicates otherwise.

What hypothesis do we wish to test?

Though climate science overall is complex, the greenhouse hypothesis itself is straightforward and it is relatively simple to test it, or its implications, against the available data. First, though, we need to be crystal clear about precisely what we mean by the term.

In general communication, and in the media, the terms greenhouse and greenhouse hypothesis have come to carry a particular vernacular meaning – almost independently of their scientific derivation. When an opinion poll or a reporter solicits information on what members of the public think about the issue they ask questions such as “do you believe in global warming”, “do you believe in climate change” or “do you believe in the greenhouse effect”.

Leaving aside the issue that science is never about belief, all such questions are actually coded ones, being understood by the public to mean “is dangerous global warming being caused by human-related emissions of carbon dioxide”. Needless to say, this is a different, albeit related, question. These and other sloppy ambiguities (“carbon” for “carbon dioxide”, for example) are in daily use in the media, and they lead to great confusion in the public discussion about climate change; they also undermine the value of nearly all opinion poll results.

The DAGW hypothesis that I want to test here is precisely and only “that dangerous global warming is being caused, or will be, by human-related carbon dioxide emissions”. To be “dangerous”, at a minimum the change must exceed the magnitude or rate of warmings that are known to be associated with normal weather and climatic variability.

What evidence can we use to test the DAGW hypothesis?

Many different lines of evidence can be used to test the DAGW hypothesis. Here I have space to present just five, all of which are based upon real world empirical data. For more information, please read both Dr. Hayhoe’s and my book.

Consider the following tests:

(i)     Over the last 16 years, global average temperature, as measured by both thermometers and satellite sensors, has displayed no statistically significant warming; over the same period, atmospheric carbon dioxide has increased by 10%.

Large increases in carbon dioxide have therefore not only failed to produce dangerous warming, but failed to produce any warming at all. Hypothesis fails.

(ii)   During the 20th century, a global warming of between 0.4O C and 0.7O C occurred, at a maximum rate, in the early decades of the century, of about 1.7O C/century. In comparison, our best regional climate records show that over the last 10,000 years natural climate cycling has resulted in temperature highs up to at least 1O C warmer than today, at rates of warming up to  2.5O C/century.

In other words, both the rate and magnitude of 20th century warming falls well within the envelope of natural climate change. Hypothesis fails, twice.

(iii)  If global temperature is controlled primarily by atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, then changes in carbon dioxide should precede parallel changes in temperature.

In fact, the opposite relationship applies at all time scales. Temperature change precedes carbon dioxide change by about 5 months during the annual seasonal cycle, and by about 700-1000 years during ice age climatic cycling. Hypothesis fails.

(iv)  The IPCC’s computer general circulation models, which factor in the effect of increasing carbon dioxide, project that global warming should be occurring at a rate of +2.0O C/century.

In fact, no warming at all has occurred in either the atmosphere or the ocean for more than the last decade. The models are clearly faulty, and allocate too great a warming effect for the extra carbon dioxide (technically, they are said to overestimate the climate sensitivity). Hypothesis fails.

(v)    The same computer models predict that a fingerprint of greenhouse-gas-induced warming will be the creation of an atmospheric hot spot at heights of 8-10 km in equatorial regions, and enhanced warming also near both poles.

Given that we already know that the models are faulty, it shouldn’t surprise us to discover that direct measurements by both weather balloon radiosondes and satellite sensors show the absence of surface warming in Antarctica, and a complete absence of the predicted low latitude atmospheric hot spot. Hypothesis fails, twice.

One of the 20th century’s greatest physicists, Richard Feynman, observed about science that:

In general we look for a new law by the following process. First we guess it. Then we compute the consequences of the guess to see what would be implied if this law that we guessed is right. Then we compare the result of the computation to nature, with experiment or experience; compare it directly with observation, to see if it works.

It’s that simple statement that is the key to science. It does not make any difference how beautiful your guess is. It does not make any difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is. If it disagrees with experiment it is wrong.

None of the five tests above supports or agrees with the predictions implicit in the greenhouse hypothesis as stated above. Richard Feynman is correct to advise us that therefore the hypothesis is invalid, and that many times over.

Summary

The current scientific reality is that the IPCC’s hypothesis of dangerous global warming has been repeatedly tested, and fails. Despite the expenditure of large sums of money over the last 25 years (more than $100 billion),  and great research effort by IPCC-related and other (independent) scientists, to date no scientific study has established a certain link between changes in any significant environmental parameter and human-caused carbon dioxide emissions.

In contrast, the null hypothesis that the global climatic changes that we have observed over the last 150 years (and continue to observe today) are natural in origin has yet to be disproven. As summarised by an seo consultant in the reports of the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), literally thousands of papers published in refereed journals contain facts or writings consistent with the null hypothesis, and plausible natural explanations exist for all the post-1850 global climatic changes that have been described so far.

Why is this conclusion not generally understood?

I commented earlier that science is not about emotion or politics, despite which it is uncomfortably true also that public discussion of the global warming issue is conducted far more in accordance with those criteria than it is about science. As discussed at more length in my book, there are three prime reasons for this.

First, as a branch of the United Nations, the IPCC is itself an intensely political and not a scientific body. To boot, the IPCC charter requires that it investigate not climate change in the round, but solely global warming caused by human greenhouse emissions.

Second, from local green activist groups up to behemoth NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, over the last 20 years the environmental movement has espoused saving the planet from global warming as its leit motif. This has had two devastating results. One is that radical environmentalists have worked relentlessly to sow misinformation about global warming in both the public domain and the education system. And the other is that, faced with this widespread propagandization of public opinion and young persons, and by also by strong lobbying from powerful self-interested groups like government research scientists, alternative energy providers and financial marketeers, politicians have had no choice but to fall into line. Whatever their primary political philosophy, all active politicians are daily mindful of the need to assuage the green intimidation and bullying to which they and their constituents are incessantly subjected.

Third, and probably most influential of all, with very few exceptions major media outlets have provided unceasing support for measures to “stop global warming”. This behaviour appears to be driven by a combination of the liberal and green personal beliefs of most reporters, and the commercial nouse of experienced editors who understand that alarmist environmental reporting sells both product and advertising space.

But given that the science remains uncertain, shouldn’t we give earth the benefit of the doubt?

This famous slogan (and note its deliberately emotive phrasing) is attributed to News Corporation’s Rupert Murdoch; it bears all the hallmarks of having been produced by a green focus group or advertising agency. The catchy phrase also reveals a profound misunderstanding of the real climatic risks faced by our societies, because it assumes that global warming is more dangerous, or more to be feared, than is global cooling; in reality, the converse is likely to be true.

It must be recognized that the theoretical hazard of dangerous human-caused global warming is but one small part of a much wider climate hazard that all scientists agree upon, which is the dangerous natural weather and climatic events that Nature intermittently presents us with – and always will. It is absolutely clear from, for example, the 2005 Hurricane Katrina and 2012 Hurricane Sandy disasters in the US, the 2007 floods in the United Kingdom and the tragic bushfires in Australia in 2003 (Canberra), 2009 (Victoria) and in January this year (widespread), that the governments of even advanced, wealthy countries are often inadequately prepared for climate-related disasters of natural origin.

We need to do better, and squandering money to give earth the benefit of the doubt based upon an unjustifiable assumption that dangerous warming will shortly resume is exactly the wrong type of “picking winners” approach.

Because many scientists, including leading solar physicists, currently argue that the position that the Earth currently occupies in the solar cycle implies that the most likely climatic trend over the next several decades is one of significant cooling rather than warming.  Meanwhile, the IPCC’s computer modellers assure us with all the authority at their command that global warming will shortly resume – just you wait and see.

The reality is, then, that no scientist on the planet can tell you with credible probability whether the climate in 2030 will be cooler or warmer than today. In such circumstances the only rational conclusion to draw is that we need to be prepared to react to either warming or cooling over the next several decades, depending upon what Nature chooses to serve up to us.

What is the best way forward?

Given that we cannot predict what future climate will be, do we still need national climate policies at all?

Indeed we do, for a primary government duty of care is to protect the citizenry and the environment from the ravages of natural climatic events. What is needed is not unnecessary and penal measures against carbon dioxide emissions, but instead a prudent and cost-effective policy of preparation for, and response to, all climatic events and hazards as and when they develop.

As Ronald Brunner and Amanda Lynch have argued in their recent book, Adaptive Governance and Climate Change, and many other scientists have supported too:

We need to use adaptive governance to produce response programs that cope with hazardous climate events as they happen, and that encourage diversity and innovation in the search for solutions. In such a fashion, the highly contentious ‘global warming’ problem can be recast into an issue in which every culture and community around the world has an inherent interest.

Climate hazard is both a geological and meteorological issue. Geological hazards are mostly dealt with by providing civil defense authorities and the public with accurate, evidence-based information regarding events such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, storms and floods (which represent climatic as well as weather events), and by mitigating and adapting to the effects when an event occurs.

New Zealand’s GeoNet natural hazard network is a world-best-practice example of how to proceed. GeoNet is New Zealand’s national natural hazard monitoring agency. GeoNet operates networks of geophysical instruments to detect, analyse and respond to earthquakes, volcanic activity, landslides and tsunami. The additional risk of longer-term climate change, which GeoNet currently doesn’t cover, differs from most other natural hazards only in that it occurs over periods of decades to hundreds or thousands of years. This difference is not one of kind, and neither should be our response planning.

The appropriate response to climate hazard, then, is national policies based on preparing for and adapting to all climate events as and when they happen, and irrespective of their presumed cause. Every country needs to develop its own understanding of, and plans to cope with, the unique combination of climate hazards that apply within its boundaries. The planned responses should be based upon adaptation, with mitigation where appropriate to cushion citizens who are affected in an undesirable way.

The idea that there can be a one-size-fits-all global solution to deal with just one possible aspect of future climate change, as recommended by the IPCC and favoured by green activists and most media commentators, fails entirely to deal with the real climate and climate-related hazards to which we are all exposed every day.

—————————————————————————————————————

Robert (Bob) Carter is a marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than 40 years professional experience who has held academic positions at the University of Otago (Dunedin) and James Cook University (Townsville), where he was Professor and Head of School of Earth Sciences between 1981 and 1999. His career has included periods as a Commonwealth Scholar (Cambridge University), a Nuffield Fellow (Oxford University) and an Australian Research Council Special Investigator. Bob has acted as an expert witness on climate change before the U.S. Senate Committee of Environment & Public Works, the Australian and N.Z. parliamentary Select Committees into emissions trading, and was a primary science witness in the U.K. High Court case of Dimmock v. H.M.’s Secretary of State for Education, the 2007 judgement from which identified nine major scientific errors in Mr Al Gore’s film “An Inconvenient Truth“. Carter is author of the book, Climate: the Counter Consensus (2010, Stacey International Ltd., London).

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rgbatduke
January 30, 2013 12:28 pm

The past extremes are local phenomina not global and synchronous. The obvious evidence for the exceptionality of the present warming is on the lack of past sea level rise during those historical extremes compared to the thermal expansion of the oceans seen now.
You mean like the synchronous warming in the 1930s during which the arctic polar ice melted, the sea level rise rate (measured by tide gagues at that time) was also over 3 mm per year, there was a horrendous dust-bowl drought with high temperatures across the United States — all without the benefit of a significant global level of anthropogenic CO_2?
Also, what is your evidence that the past extremes are local phenomena and not synchronous. I thought all of that Mann-ist sort of claim was debunked long ago and even most warmists now once again acknowledge the reality of the RWP, the MWP, and the LIA. They are, after all, right up there and visible on most of the wikipedia pages that illustrate proxy-derived temperatures across the Holocene in spite of their substantial dilution by statistically incompetent work done by many dendroclimatologists. Recently even folks like Briffa have been leaving this particular long since sunken ship (and now if one could only remove it from the wikipedia pages…).
rgb

January 30, 2013 12:54 pm

vukcevic Yes, I am pleased that you agree, there is 105 year ‘cycle’ (history of our discussion on the existence or non-existence of such period goes back few years)
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 30, 2013 at 10:05 am
Yes, I showed you long ago that there is a 105-yr cycle. Good you remember.
I remember it somewhat differently. At the time you were more in with the 77-88 years (7 or 8 SS cycles). I was suggesting around 107, and even proposed :”How about Gleissberg and 107 year Vukcevic cycle?”
Rest of my comments from ‘my’ now defunct thread at SC24:
“Topic: Maunder and related matters (Read 72,725times)”
You can see here
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/Gleissberg.htm
As usual your comments are outright rejection of my points (so no quotes are necessary)

January 30, 2013 12:54 pm

rgbatduke:
In my post at January 30, 2013 at 8:54 am I wrote

Yes, new high temperature records are set every year, and new low temperature records are, too. That is because the temperatures have only been measured for a short time.

At January 30, 2013 at 12:09 pm you have responded saying

Oops, you mean every day, or very nearly so.

Indeed so, and I am not sure what you intended by “Oops”.
Clearly, if a record is set on a day then it is set in the year which includes that day (e.g. the hottest January day in ‘place X’ was recorded in year-such-and-such).
However, there is a more important issue which derives from that. I recently explained it in a post to an egregious troll in another WUWT thread, so I copy that post here.
Richard
==============
Moe:
You add to your proclamations of your ignorance of statistics when you write at January 26, 2013 at 12:47 am

DirkH, You are cherry picking. Look at the number of heat records broken in America last summer. Literally thousand of them. Record heat in Russia caused caused a drastically reduce crop and as a consequence they banned all grain exports out of Russia. What is being experienced is extreme heat in summer with extreme cold in winter, with the cold records falling at a third the rate of warm records.

The weather monitoring started only about 150 years ago.
On its first day the first weather station recorded eight record values; i.e. max. and min. for temperature, precipitation, wind speed, and barometric pressure. On the following day some (possibly all) of those records would have been broken.
As time passed the period between obtaining a new record increased, but records inevitably continued to be broken. This is true for each weather monitoring site. And there are now hundreds of monitoring sites.
Therefore, a weather record is obtained somewhere on most days. This results from the short time of the monitoring (~150 years) and the large number of measurements (8 parameters measured at hundreds of monitoring sites on each of 365 days each year).
But the Earth has been warming from the Little Ice Age for centuries, so the globe warmed for most of the ~150 years that the measurements have been made. Clearly, when the measurements started there was equal probability of obtaining a record high or record low temperature. But 100 years later the globe was warmer, so there was more chance of setting high temperature records and less chance of breaking the low temperature records which were obtained when the Earth was cooler.
Discernible global warming continued until about 16 years ago. Clearly, there is now high probability of setting high temperature records because the globe has only been this hot for the last 16 years of the 150 year record. But there is little probability of setting low temperature records because the Earth was cooler for ~130 years of the monitored time.
But you say of the recent time “the cold records falling at a third the rate of warm records”.
A third! That is so high a proportion of “cold records” that it is extraordinary.
”The cold records falling at a third the rate of warm records” is strong evidence that the global warming over the last ~150 years has been trivial.
And you would have known that if you had any understanding of what you are talking about.
Richard

Reply to  richardscourtney
January 30, 2013 1:53 pm

@RichardCourtney – actually, 4 record temperatures were set the very first day. We know about record high and low, but now we have record high low, and record low high. Or at least the weather people around here tell us we are tracking those.
Record High low – the highest low temperature on a date
Record Low High – The lowest high temperature on a date.

Bart
January 30, 2013 1:02 pm

“· that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere”
They’re actually not. It’s going to take a long time to seep through the mental block which has accumulated over time, but that was never more than an assumption, for which evidence consistent with it was sought, but falsification was never attempted.
If, however, you actually look at the data, it is clear that temperatures are driving CO2. This plot shows that, since accurate records began, CO2 has evolved to a high degree of fidelity according to the difeq
dCO2/dt = k*(T – To)
where k is a coupling constant, and To is an equilibrium temperature. This is simply a 1st order Taylor series expansion of a continuous transport process for which the rate of change depends on temperature. One such process is the continuous transport of CO2 into downwelling waters and out of the upwelling waters of the thermohaline circulation. With this equation, if you have the starting point and the temperatures in between, you can calculate the CO2 concentration to high accuracy at any time up to the present. You don’t need to know anything about human inputs at all.
The relationship precludes any significant contribution from human emissions. This is because the coupling constant k which matches the variation also precisely matches the trend. Since the rate of human inputs also has a trend, k would have to be reduced to make room for it, but then the variation would not match. The conclusion is necessarily that human inputs are rapidly sequestered, while temperature determines the equilibrium concentration of CO2.

Werner Brozek
January 30, 2013 1:05 pm

StephenP says:
January 30, 2013 at 10:53 am
Great summary. Has somebody got the time to comment on this newsletter.
http://www.nnfcc.co.uk/publications/nnfcc-newsletter-issue-26.-carbon-capture-and-storage-special-issue

See: http://ukipscotland.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/longannet-carbon-capture-scheme-scrapped/
“Environment Canada wants to spend $6 billion to reduce the atmospheric concentration of a trace molecule by 0.01 ppmv, and assuming there is any advantage in doing so, supposedly cutting global temps by 0.0007°C.”
When an oil company in our province asked for input for their carbon capture plan, I wrote about the huge costs for little gain. They thanked me for my input but it made no difference.

January 30, 2013 1:18 pm

“In fact, the opposite relationship applies at all time scales. Temperature change precedes carbon dioxide change by about 5 months during the annual seasonal cycle, and by about 700-1000 years during ice age climatic cycling.”
What is the relationship when night turns into day? And is there even smaller time scales where we have similar relationships?
Can anybody help me? (I am looking for fractal similarities.)
Thank you professor Bob Carter. I will definitely resend your posting.

January 30, 2013 1:19 pm

vukcevic says:
January 30, 2013 at 12:54 pm
“Yes, I showed you long ago that there is a 105-yr cycle. Good you remember.”
I remember it somewhat differently.

Yet show my FFT analysis http://www.leif.org/research/FFT-Power-Spectrum-SSN-1700-2008.png
Go figure…

ss
January 30, 2013 1:25 pm

It should be innocent until proven guilty…but the judge has already been convinced otherwise.

January 30, 2013 1:41 pm

Bart:
At January 30, 2013 at 1:02 pm you quote Bob Carter saying of CO2

• that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere

And you dispute that with your dispute beginning

They’re actually not. It’s going to take a long time to seep through the mental block which has accumulated over time, but that was never more than an assumption, for which evidence consistent with it was sought, but falsification was never attempted.
etc.

Actually, Bob Carter knows that his statement is contentious because he and I were speakers at a Conference in Stockholm where my presentation dealt with that specific issue.
In a brief summary such as he provides here, Bob Carter has adopted the reasonable position of conceding that contentious matter and using his available space to explain that if the accumulation were true then it would not be important.

For information of onlookers I provide a brief clarification of the contention. I do NOT intend to participate in a deflection of this thread into a side-track about the issue.
The IPCC and some others (e.g. Ferdinand Engelbeen) assert that human emissions of CO2 are accumulating in the atmosphere.
Other people (including you) claim the recent rise in atmospheric CO2 is entirely natural and results from the rise in global temperature.
I don’t know the cause of the recent rise in atmospheric CO2 but I want to know. The rise is certainly NOT that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere: if that were so then the rise and the emissions would relate, but they don’t. Something has disturbed the equilibrium state of the carbon cycle with the result that atmospheric CO2 has increased. It is most likely that rise in global temperature has caused the disturbance but the anthropogenic emission – or something else – may have induced it.
(ref. Rorsch A, Courtney RS & Thoenes D, ‘The Interaction of Climate Change and the Carbon Dioxide Cycle’ E&E v16no2 (2005) )
Richard

January 30, 2013 1:58 pm

lsvalgaard says:
January 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Yet show my FFT analysis http://www.leif.org/research/FFT-Power-Spectrum-SSN-1700-2008.png
Go figure…

Yes, indeed to point to you at the time that there is nothing what Gleissberg claimed for 77-88 year cycle and you and rest were upholding as correct; that he was wrong and that I was right that ~107 year cycle exists, and you were permanently ridiculing it.
I was talking about 2×53 year climate cycle long before discussing it with you, as shown here :
Re: Global Cooling
« vukcevic on Oct 13, 2008, 8:56pm »
Here is a fraction of Maunder curve (Y2) http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/graph1.gif
plotted against Global temperature chart.
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/mgt.gif
See link
http://solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=globalwarming&action=print&thread=7

Berényi Péter
January 30, 2013 2:07 pm

Dear Prof Carter,
I think there is a problem intrinsic to climate science, which makes the field exploitable to outside influences at the first place. This is the widespread acceptance of the “modelling paradigm” as valid scientific practice by both sides of the debate. For even sceptics express doubts in terms of the models’ failure to predict (project) such-and-such a course of events, that is, they doubt the quality of actual models but not validity of the paradigm itself.
However, fitting multiple models of high Kolmogorov complexity to a single run of a unique physical instance is not science, for what science traditionally does is just the opposite of it: fits a single model of low Kolmogorov complexity (Ockham’s razor, anyone?) to multiple runs of a wide class of physical instances.
The rift is so deep, that this paradigm shift in itself pushes climate science over the edge, to the bottomless pit of pseudoscience.
Highly complex computational climate models, built of several million lines of code each (like GCMs) are good for nothing if treated as theories. They only have some heuristic value at best, that is, they may help to accomplish Feynman’s first step in establishing a new law: “First we guess it.” Please note the methods used to guess things are left unspecified by Feynman, so even weird and expensive devices like GCMs may be included, who cares? Beyond taxpayers, who are supposed to pay the bill, I mean.
But computational climate models are not good for even the second step, to “compute the consequences of the guess to see what would be implied if this law that we guessed is right.” Not good enough, because they include too many additional presuppositions, most of them hidden from open scrutiny by various parametrization methods. And there are so many of them, of these open parameters, that no one is ever able to carry out a full logical analysis anyway (that’s what high Kolmogorov complexity means, that one can’t compress the model’s description to a reasonable size).
See how Michael Mann Defends Climate Computer Models in Scientific American (and find the flaws in his reasoning)
My Climate Model Bashing also worth a read perhaps.
I still wonder who was the first one to introduce this kind of computational modelling to climate science and how could it get so popular, that there is even a term like “experimentation in silico” now? Which has nothing to do with the traditional concept of experiment, of course. The new term is also used widely in medical sciences, which tells us something about its merits.
The flawed meme is already present in William Welch Kellogg’s speech at the 1975 Endangered Atmosphere Conference. He outlines the difficulties of computer modelling of climate change and man’s role because of the nonlinearities involved in climate, but he concludes that climate models “are really the only tools we have to determine such things.” Heh, if the only tool we have is a hammer, everything should be a nail, right? What a brilliant logic.

Skiphil
January 30, 2013 2:23 pm

rgbatduke says:
January 30, 2013 at 9:02 am
================================
Thank you for yet another superb commentary which puts a range of issues into their proper context. You have such a gift (or cultivated ability) for lucid explanation. It is greatly appreciated!
(I also found Bob Carter’s head post to be of exceptional value.)
As we approach the inevitable hype for AR5 it will be crucial to have independent scientific voices addressing the public on a cluster of ‘where have we come from, what do we know, and where are we going’ kinds of climate research and policy questions.

u.k.(us)
January 30, 2013 2:46 pm

At what point did predictions of future weather, right/wrong/or in between, become a business model that had billions of dollars thrown at it.
Did it improve the predictions ?
Or, starve the actual science to ensure continued funding.

January 30, 2013 2:46 pm

vukcevic says:
January 30, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Yes, indeed to point to you at the time that there is nothing what Gleissberg claimed for 77-88 year cycle and you and rest were upholding as correct
My [then] little grandson Peter pointed out long ago that there is a 100-yr cycle in http://sidc.be/html/wolfaml.html as I [and many others] well knew, e.g. in http://www.leif.org/research/JASR_9142.pdf “…the sunspot number. Because the latter seems to exhibit a 100 year Gleissberg cycle, B does as well.”
A sure mark of a pseudo-scientist is lack of knowledge of the literature and incessant claims of having seen something before anybody else. You are right up there. DK-syndrome again?

Tom McGaffey
January 30, 2013 2:52 pm

When 75% of scientists/climatologists agree with his assessment…then I will accept it. Until then, the jury is still out.

January 30, 2013 2:52 pm

Bob Carter,
I found you clear, dispassionate and objective in the first 60% of your important article. Thank you, that part is as well said as many others over the years.
I start a fundamental disagreement with you after about the 60% point of your article and continue profound disagreement with to the articles end. I started disagreeing with you when you said this:

Quoted from Bob Carter in his article ‘Global Warming: Anthropogenic or Not?’ Posted January 30 2013 at WUWT,
Why is this conclusion not generally understood?
I commented earlier that science is not about emotion or politics, despite which it is uncomfortably true also that public discussion of the global warming issue is conducted far more in accordance with those criteria than it is about science. As discussed at more length in my book, there are three prime reasons for this.
First, as a branch of the United Nations, the IPCC is itself an intensely political and not a scientific body. [ . . . ]
Second, from local green activist groups up to behemoth NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, over the last 20 years the environmental movement has espoused saving the planet from global warming as its leit motif. [ . . . ]
Third, and probably most influential of all, with very few exceptions major media outlets have provided unceasing support for measures to “stop global warming”. [ . . . ]

With those words you shifted both epistemologically and metaphysically to a different reference point. You went from a formal physical scientific reference to a completely non-scientific reference point.
In the scientific reference frame the focus is on physical nature (including man’s mind). The philosophy of science and the history of science serve you well as a reference frame in the first 60% of your article. Scientists know your explicit reference frame for your remarks and there can be a relatively clear dialog on a decent common basis.
Then with the above quote you entered the a fundamentally different area of the human condition; a uniquely different part of philosophy. You jumped into the area of philosophy that is man-made; an area containing such man created entities as political orgs, intellectual volunteer orgs, and the media.
My fundamental criticism of you starting with entering that man-made area is you present no explicit reference frame (philosophy) from which you start speaking about that unique area. What are your fundamental premises and principals that are the bases for your evaluation? I could try to deduce or infer your fundamental reference frame but why should I need to since you are capable of doing so yourself.
I think there was an unfounded leap at the 60% point in your article.
John

david elder, australia
January 30, 2013 2:59 pm

It took me a while to grasp Bob Carter’s crucial point. Significant climate change will occur sooner or later for reasons that could be natural, anthropogenic or both; the change may be warming, cooling or cyclic. Therefore we must prepare rationally over time for all these possibilities – not throw fortunes at the currently fashionable one.

Greg House
January 30, 2013 3:05 pm

rgbatduke says, January 30, 2013 at 12:01 pm: “…I assure you that the greenhouse effect … can be directly observed in the differences between TOA and BOA IR radiation spectra. It therefore has direct empirical evidence supporting it …”
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No, “greenhouse effect” can not be directly observed in the differences between TOA and BOA IR radiation spectra. Differences between TOA and BOA IR radiation spectra can be observed, OK, but this is not the “greenhouse effect” as presented by the IPCC. The IPCC maintains that “greenhouse gases” not just absorb and re-emit the IR radiation coming from the Earth surface back to the surface (partly), but also that this re-emitted IR radiation affects the temperature of the source (the surface).
So, there are 2 parts in the “greenhouse effect” as presented by the IPCC: (1) absorption/emission and (2) effect on the temperature of the source (the surface).
The first part was proven experimentally 150 years ago, no problem with that, but the second one has apparently never been proven experimentally, by a real scientific physical experiment.
On the other hand, it was experimentally proven long ago (1909) by American professor of physics R.W.Wood that that sort of IR (back/trapped radiation) had zero (or negligible) effect on the temperature of the source: http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/wood_rw.1909.html . Thus the second part was in fact disproved.

rgbatduke
January 30, 2013 3:23 pm

There is no evidence that this effect even is possible and, if it is, it would be undetectable. This is junk science. The effect requires that the tropical upper troposphere at -17 deg C is heating up and radiating IR at the surface, in turn heating it up and then the lower atmosphere. Well, the surface is 15 deg C and simply cannot absorb or be warmed by the colder source. Totally against thermodynamics. Furthermore, satellite measurements show that the tropical upper troposphere has not warmed, but in fact cooled a bit over recent decades.
This entire comment is completely incorrect. There is plenty of evidence that it is not only possible, it is real, an accomplished and understood fact. The physical mechanism is well understood. It is directly observable by any human who takes note of the fact that cloudy nights are warmer, on average, than clear nights — I first learned about in Boy Scouts forty-five years ago when there wasn’t any contention about the idea because nobody was proposing runaway global warming (and it was an accomplished and understood fact way back then, too).
At this point, in addition to the underlying physical theory (which makes sense) there is direct spectroscopic evidence — effectively photographs of the GHE in action. The ground is not warmed by the greenhouse gas, it is warmed by the sun. But the presence of an absorber/radiator layer of atmosphere above the ground most definitely slows the rate at which the ground cools, in completely understandable ways. The GHE does not violate any laws of thermodynamics.
Finally, whether or not upper troposphere temperatures have or have not warmed is irrelevant to whether or not the greenhouse effect exists at all — at most it exhibits the fact that it may well not vary monotonically with CO_2 concentration in a saturated atmosphere where CO_2 is only one, and not the strongest one, of the many greenhouse gases present, or — as I often point out on this list in the opposite direction (where it is equally valid) it stands as yet another not-particularly-well-understood aspect of the most difficult scientific problem humans have ever tackled.
Claims like this one (the GHE doesn’t exist, or violates the laws of thermodynamics) give skeptics a bad name among people who actually know what the laws of thermodynamics are well enough not to apply them to an open thermodynamic system (or any other system) incorrectly, and should be avoided. You’ll note that Carter’s top article pointed out the existence of the greenhouse effect as a point of agreement between him and the various “warmist” arguers. There is a simple reason for this — because there is literally not the slightest question that the GHE (or as John Nielsen-Gammon puts it on his blog, the “Atmospheric Effect” as atmospheric radiative electrochemistry is a lot more complex than any simple sound bite phrase can convey) is real and responsible for a substantial part — roughly 1/10th of the Earth’s mean absolute temperature. It is an important 1/10th.
rgb

January 30, 2013 3:31 pm

Tom McGaffey:
Your post at January 30, 2013 at 2:52 pm says in total

When 75% of scientists/climatologists agree with his assessment…then I will accept it. Until then, the jury is still out.

You really, really don’t understand science.
Why would “75% of scientists/climatologists” convince you? Why not 74%?
In reality only one person could show Carter to be wrong if he were.
As Albert Einstein famously said when told 100 scientists had rejected his “Jewish science”,
“It would only take one of them to provide one piece of evidence to show I was wrong”.
If you cannot find fault with what Bob Carter has written then you have no reason to dispute it.
Richard

Richard M
January 30, 2013 3:56 pm

I don’t know the cause of the recent rise in atmospheric CO2 but I want to know. The rise is certainly NOT that human emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere: if that were so then the rise and the emissions would relate, but they don’t. Something has disturbed the equilibrium state of the carbon cycle with the result that atmospheric CO2 has increased. It is most likely that rise in global temperature has caused the disturbance but the anthropogenic emission – or something else – may have induced it.
Richard Courtney, I’ll give you my best guess. The increase is indeed anthropogenic, but has little to do with fossil fuels. Over the last few centuries mankind has been reducing the biosphere, mainly deforestation. Mankind is returning the CO2 from this activity into the atmosphere. Add to that the burning of other substances, like dung, that would otherwise lead to naturally sequestered CO2.
Nature has a negative feedback for the reduction in the biosphere, it is the release of plant food. Good old Gaia is quite brilliant. This plant food, CO2, enhances growth of the biosphere in an attempt to return to an equilibrium state. Interestingly, the release of CO2 also provides a slight warming to enhance the plant growth even more. However, this process has it’s own negative feedback (the cooling effect of CO2) which limits its power. Nature once again showing pure brilliance.
The Japanese satellite that tracks CO2 concentration supports this hypothesis. The highest values are over 3rd world countries.
The ironic result of man’s silly AGW crusade is that it slows the development of the nations that are most responsible for this situation. In other words, by diverting resources from helping the developing nations the alarmists have been responsible for continuing the increase in CO2.
This is not to say that fossil fuel emissions have no effect, the effect is just much smaller than claimed. And, there is no real need to return the biosphere to its previous equilibrium. The new equilibrium is better for the survival of our species for many reasons.

January 30, 2013 4:01 pm

Richard M:
I am replying to your post at January 30, 2013 at 3:56 pm.
My comment you are answering said I was NOT going to participate in that side-track. I have discussed the carbon cycle on WUWT several times and probably will again. But this thread is too important for it to be side-tracked onto another issue.
Sorry.
Richard

rgbatduke
January 30, 2013 4:06 pm

The first part was proven experimentally 150 years ago, no problem with that, but the second one has apparently never been proven experimentally, by a real scientific physical experiment.
Piffle.
The GHE is a simple statement of detailed balance, comparing two cases. In the first case an absorber is heated by the sun and radiates directly back to space. In the second the absorber is heated by the sun and radiates directly into a gas that acts as a saturated absorber in substantial portions of the spectrum. It is bone-simple physics that in the second case the interpolant layer will cause the mean surface temperature in dynamical equilibrium to be higher. I don’t give a rodent’s furry behind what the IPCC claims or does not claim, what late 19th or early 20th century physicists claimed or did not claim. If you look at the TOA and BOA IR spectrographs, there is a matching hole. Unless you really do want a violation of the first law of thermodynamics — that would be the one requiring energy to be conserved — the GHE is real, and the spectrographs are direct evidence.
This is, by the way, a “real scientific physical experiment”. You just don’t want to accept what it tells you. There is also a wealth of observational evidence correlating nighttime cooling rates and e.g. atmospheric humidity (water vapor is another greenhouse gas), not to mention the evidence associated with planetary temperatures as a function of the particular mixes of their atmospheres.
I repeat — the GHE was accepted as proven fact long before the IPCC came into the picture, not because of some grand global conspiracy but because there was little question about the physics and experimental support for it. Quantum mechanics simply improved our understanding of it further, well beyond what its original inventor(s) imagined, and IR spectroscopy proved it beyond any doubt. Trying to assert that it doesn’t exist at all simply robs you instantly of all credibility, especially when you do so on the incorrect basis that it was proven false back in 1909, or that the IPCC (as an entity) makes some specific claim for it that is somehow bogus.
Nobody — and I do mean nobody — credible (where I use the word in the purely personal sense of credible to me as a scientist) asserts that there is no such thing as a greenhouse effect and that carbon dioxide in our atmosphere is completely irrelevant to the Earth’s mean surface temperature. There is plenty of room to argue about feedbacks — I’m perfectly happy to believe that water vapor feedbacks could cancel almost all of the warming that results from additional CO_2 (if and as evidence is presented to that effect) and am very skeptical indeed about the large positive feedback from water vapor that has been claimed. There is plenty of room to argue about other atmospheric effects — aerosols, cloud albedo, soot, as well as the possible effect of solar mechanisms known and unknown outside of direct insolation, orbital variations, and much more. The physics of the system is very complicated, no doubt. But it is silly to claim that there is no GHE at all.
None of the really credible skeptical scientists make this argument, of course. Indeed, they shake their head just as sadly as I do when it is made, because it makes rational arguments against catastrophic global warming all the more difficult to advance when there is such low hanging fruit available for warmists to use to allege that all arguments against their hypothesis are as silly as this one. Spencer argues for low feedback, not no GHE. Carter argues for low feedback and/or a weak effect in the first place, not no GHE. Lindzen, Curry, go down the list, Greg. You know who argues for no GHE — the infamous “Slayers”, folks who can propose that the reason for global warming is fusion occurring in the Earth’s crust with a straight face. Or people who argue that it is all PV=NkT — adiabatic compression of a static atmosphere (talk about violations of the second law!)
I do realize, of course, that at this point I will never convince you otherwise (or any of the others who are grasping at straws trying to “disprove” AGW altogether). You are just as religious in your opposition to the idea as Hansen is in his support. Just bear in mind that you are, in your own way, as damaging to the very point of view you wish to advance as Hansen is to his.
In the meantime, you might want to reread this:
http://blog.chron.com/climateabyss/2012/08/the-best-ever-description-of-the-atmospheric-greenhouse-effect/
(which is pretty good) or this:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/10/visualizing-the-greenhouse-effect-emission-spectra/
or best of all, read Petty’s book on radiative atmospheric physics. Then come talk to me.
rgb

little polyp
January 30, 2013 4:40 pm

whenizen facts enough
try a good old ideological buff
the trouble is in the rough
those facts sticky stuff
back to blind mans bluff

Greg House
January 30, 2013 4:43 pm

rgbatduke says, January 30, 2013 at 4:06 pm: “I don’t give a rodent’s furry behind what the IPCC claims or does not claim … the GHE is real, and the spectrographs are direct evidence.”
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It is your right to ignore what the IPCC claim, but the whole climate policy is based on their claims. Their main claim is that the surface radiates IR and the “greenhouse gases” send back a part of it to the surface, thus affecting the temperature of the source (surface): http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-1-3.html
This is the “official” greenhouse effect. If you have another one, then please make it clear what you are talking about, to avoid confusion. Anyway, the “greenhouse effect” as presented by the IPCC is politically relevant and yours, if you have one, is apparently not, sorry.
Again, your spectrographs can not prove the “greenhouse effect” as presented by the IPCC because your spectrographs can not prove the alleged effect on the temperature of the source the trapped/back radiation allegedly produces.
On the other hand, as I said, professor Wood proved it experimentally, that that alleged effect on the temperature of the source was zero or negligible. To prove that he used (surprise!) thermometers. This is a really easy reading: http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/wood_rw.1909.html.
Note, that the fact that back radiation has zero or negligible effect on the temperature of the source does not violate any known physical law, hence your references to physical laws are irrelevant.
For the readers’ sake I would like to ask you to refrain from excessive writing and just address the scientific points of the “greenhouse effect” controversy directly in a possibly concise way.

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