Bethlehem and the rat-hole problem

rat, mousetrap and cheese

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

In the closing minutes of the final plenary of the U.N.’s Doha climate summit, when no one else had anything further to add, I spent a few seconds telling the delegates something that the bad scientists and the malicious media have done their level best to conceal. There has been no global warming for 16 years.

In the real world, this surely welcome news would have been greeted with cheers of relief and delight. Since the beginning of 1997, despite the wailing and gnashing of dentures among the classe politique, despite the regulations, the taxations, the carbon trades, the windmills, the interminable, earnestly flatulent U.N. conferences, the CO2 concentration that they had declared to be Public Enemy No. 1 has not stabilized. It has grown by one-twelfth.

Yet this startling growth has not produced so much as a twentieth of a Celsius degree of global warming. Any warming below the measurement uncertainty of 0.05 Cº in the global-temperature datasets is statistically indistinguishable from zero.

The much-vaunted “consensus” of the much-touted “ensembles” of the much-heralded “models” has been proven wrong. The much-feted “modelers” had written in 2008 that their much-cited “simulations” ruled out, to 95% confidence, intervals of 15 years or more without global warming. To them, 16 years without warming were as near impossible as makes no difference.

Yet those impossible years happened. However, you would never have known that surely not uninteresting piece of good news from reading the newspapers or watching ABC, BBC, CBC, NBC, et hoc genus omne. The media are not in the business of giving the facts or telling the truth any more.

Precisely because journalists no longer bother to provide the inconvenient truth to their audiences, and because they are no longer willing even to provide the people with the straightforward facts without which democracy itself cannot function, the depressingly ill-informed and scientifically-illiterate delegates in Doha can be forgiven for not having known that global warming stopped a long while back.

That is why they should have been excited and delighted when they heard the news – nearly all of them for the very first time.

But this was the alternative reality that is the corrupt, self-serving U.N. Howls, hoots and hollers of dismay and fury greeted my short, polite announcement. This absurdly inappropriate reaction raises a fascinating question.

How are we to dig a rat-hole wide enough to allow the useful idiots and true-believers to escape as each passing year makes it more and more obvious that their fatuous credo has all the plausibility of the now somewhat discredited notion that the world was to be snuffed out at this year’s winter solstice?

Every student of the arts of diplomacy in the civil-service and staff colleges of the U.K. hears much about the rat-hole problem. How does one let the other side off some hook on which they have imprudently impaled themselves, while minimizing their loss of face?

A cornered rat will fight savagely, even against overwhelming odds, because it has no alternative. Give the rat a way out and it will instinctively take it.

The first step in digging a diplomatic rat-hole is to show that one understands how one’s opponents came to make their mistake. One might make a point of agreeing with their premise – in the present instance, the long-proven fact that adding a greenhouse gas to an atmosphere such as ours can be expected, ceteris paribus, to cause some warming.

Then one tries to find justifications for their standpoint. There are five good reasons why the global warming that they – and we – might have expected has not occurred for 16 years: natural variability in general; the appreciable decline in solar activity since the Grand Maximum that peaked in 1960; the current 30-year cooling phase of the ocean oscillations, which began late in 2001 with the transition from the warming phase that had begun in 1976; the recent double-dip la Niña; and the frequency with which supra-decadal periods without warming have occurred in the instrumental record since 1850.

The next trick is to help them, sympathetically, to focus the blame for their error on as few of their number as possible. Here, the target is obvious. The models are to blame for the mess the true-believers are in.

We must help them to understand why the models got it so very wrong. This will not be easy, because nearly all of our opponents have no science or math at all.

We can start our deconstruction of the models by pointing out that – given the five good reasons why global warming might not occur for 15 years or more at a time – the modelers’ ruling out periods of 15 years or more without warming shows they have given insufficient weight to the influence of natural variability. We can poke gentle fun at their description of CO2 as “ the tuning-knob of the climate”, and help them to put things into perspective by reminding them that Man has so far altered only 1/10,000 of the atmosphere, and may alter 1/3000 of it by 2100.

We cannot altogether avoid the math. But we can put it all in plain English, and we can use logic, which is more accessible to the layman than climatological physics. Here goes.

The fundamental equation of climate sensitivity says temperature change is the product of a forcing and a climate-sensitivity parameter.

The modellers’ definition of forcing is illogical; their assumptions about the value of the climate-sensitivity parameter are not Popper-falsifiable; and their claims of reliability for their long-term predictions are empirically disproven and theoretically insupportable. Let us explain.

The IPCC defines a forcing as the net down-minus-up flux of radiation at the tropopause, holding surface temperature fixed. Yet forcings change that temperature. A proposition and its converse cannot simultaneously be true. That is the fundamental postulate of logic, and the models’ definition of forcing manifestly offends against it.

No surprise, then, that since 1995 the IPCC has had to cut its estimate of the CO2 forcing by 15%. The “consensus” disagrees with itself. Note in passing that the CO2 forcing function is logarithmic: each further molecule causes less warming than those before it. Diminishing returns apply.

We can remind our opponents that direct warming is little more than 1 Cº per doubling of CO2 concentration, well within natural variability. It is not a crisis. We can explain that the modelers have imaginatively introduced amplifying or “positive” temperature feedbacks, which, they hope, will triple the direct warming from CO2.

Yet this dubious hypothesis, not being Popper-falsifiable, is not logic and, therefore, not science. If a hypothesis cannot be checked by any empirical or theoretical method, it is not – stricto sensu – a hypothesis at all. It is of no interest to science.

Not one of the imagined feedbacks is empirically measurable or theoretically determinable to a sufficient precision by any method. As an expert reviewer for the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report, I have described its strongly net-positive feedback interval as guesswork – and that, in logic and therefore in science, is exactly what it is.

There is a powerful theoretical reason for suspecting that the modellers’ guess that feedbacks triple direct warming is erroneous. The climatic closed-loop feedback gain implicit in the IPCC’s climate-sensitivity estimate of 3.3[2.0, 4.5] Cº per CO2 doubling falls on the interval 0.62[0.42, 0.74], though you will find no mention of the crucial concept of loop gain either in the IPCC’s documents or – as far as I can discover – in any of the few papers that discuss the mathematics of temperature feedbacks in the climate object.

Process engineers building electronic circuits, who invented feedback mathematics, tell us any loop gain much above zero is too near the singularity – at a loop gain of 1 – in the feedback-amplification equation. At a gain as high as is implicit in the models’ climate-sensitivity estimates, the geological record would show violent oscillations between extremes of warming and cooling.

Yet for 64 million years the Earth’s surface temperature has fluctuated by only 3%, or 8 Cº, either side of the long-run mean. These fluctuations can give us an ice-planet at one moment and a hothouse Earth the next, but they are altogether too small to be consistent with a feedback loop gain anywhere near as close to the singularity as official estimates imply, for homeostatic conditions prevail.

The atmosphere’s lower bound, the ocean, is a vast heat-sink 1100 times denser than the air. Since 3000 bathythermographs were deployed in 2006 no significant ocean warming has been found.

The upper bound of the atmosphere is outer space, to which any excess heat radiates harmlessly away.

Homeostasis, then, is what we should expect, and it is what we get. Accordingly, the climatic loop gain – far from being as impossibly high as the IPCC’s central estimate of 0.62 – cannot much exceed zero, so the warming at CO2 doubling will scarcely exceed 1 Cº.

It is also worth explaining to our opponents the fundamental reason why models cannot do what the modelers claim for them. The overriding difficulty in attempting to model the climate is that it behaves as a chaotic object. We can never know the values of its millions of defining parameters at any chosen moment to a sufficient precision to permit reliable projection of the bifurcations, or Sandy-like departures from an apparently steady state, that are inherent in all objects that behave chaotically. Therefore, reliable, very-long-term prediction of future climate states is known a priori to be unavailable by any method.

The modelers have tried to overcome this constraint by saying that the models are all we have, so we must make the best of them. But it is self-evidently illogical to use models when reliable, very-long-term weather forecasting is not available by any method.

This fundamental limitation on the reliability of long-term predictions by the models – known as the Lorenz constraint, after the father of computerized or “numerical” weather forecasting, whose 1963 paper Deterministic Non-Periodic Flow founded chaos theory by examining the behavior of a five-variable mini-model of the climate constructed as a heuristic – tells us something more, and very important, about the climate.

Bifurcations (or, in our opponents’ intellectual baby-talk, “tipping-points”) in the evolution of the climate object over time are not a whit more likely to occur in a rapidly-warming climate than in a climate which – like our own – is not warming at all.

Sandy and Bopha, and the hot summer in the U.S., could not have been caused by global warming, for the blindingly obvious reason that for 16 years there has not been any.

However, there are many variables in the climate object other than CO2 concentration and surface temperature. Even the tiniest perturbation in any one of these millions of parameters is enough, in an object that behaves chaotically, to induce a bifurcation.

Nothing in the mathematics of chaos leads one to conclude that “tipping-points” are any more likely to occur in response to a large change in the value of one of the parameters (such as surface temperature) that describe an object than in response to an infinitesimal change.

The clincher, in most diplomatic discussions, is money. Once we have led our opponents to understand that there is simply no reason to place any credence whatsoever in the exaggerations that are now painfully self-evident in the models, we can turn their attention to climate economics.

Pretend, ad argumentum, that the IPCC’s central estimate of 2.8 Cº warming by 2100 is true, and that Stern was right to say that the GDP cost of failing to prevent 3 Cº warming this century will be around 1.5% of GDP. Then, at the minimum 5% market inter-temporal discount rate, the cost of trying to abate this decade’s predicted warming of 0.15 Cº by topical, typical CO2-mitigation measures as cost-ineffective as, say, Australia’s carbon tax would be 48 times greater than the cost of later adaptation. At a zero discount rate, the cost of action will exceed the cost arising from inaction 36 times over.

How so? Australia emits just 1.2% of Man’s CO2, of which Ms. Gillard aims to cut 5% this decade. So Australia’s scheme, even if it worked, would cutting just 0.06% of global emissions by 2020. In turn, that would cut CO2 concentration from a predicted 410 μatm to 409.988 μatm. It is this infinitesimal change in CO2 concentration, characteristic of all measures intended – however piously – to mitigate future warming that is the chief reason why there is no economic case for spending any money at all on mitigation today.

The tiny drop in CO2 concentration would cut predicted temperature by 0.00006 Cº. This pathetic result would be achieved at a cost of $130 billion, which works out at $2 quadrillion/Cº. Abating the 0.15 Cº warming predicted for this decade would thus cost $317 trillion, or $45,000/head worldwide, or 59% of global GDP.

Mitigation measures inexpensive enough to be affordable will be ineffective: measures expensive enough to be effective will be unaffordable. Since the premium exceeds the cost of the risk, don’t insure. That is a precautionary principle worthy of the name.

When the child born in Bethlehem ~2012 years ago grew up, He told His audience the parable of the prodigal son, who had squandered his inheritance but was nevertheless welcomed by his father with a fatted calf when he returned and said he was sorry.

However vicious and cruel the true-believers in the global-warming fantasy have been to those few of us who have dared publicly to question their credo that has now been so thoroughly discredited by events, we should make sure that the rat-hole we dig for their escape from their lavish folly is as commodious as possible.

If all else fails, we can pray for them as He prayed looking down from the Cross on the world He had created.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

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AlecM
December 25, 2012 4:36 pm

Lord Monckton graciously mentioned my contribution about the real GHE. My estimate of ~9K is with respect to the Hansen 33 K which he claims, after Houghton, is via the moist lapse rate, their claimed cause of the GHE.
This is of course balderdash but to prove it you have to show there can be no CO2-AGW so no change of the moist lapse rate by CO2 change. This is quite easy to an engineer unencumbered with the Schuster-Schwarzchild two-stream approximation, which breaches Maxwell’s equations so can’t be true.
The interference of opposing plane waves at the surface means the weaker is annihilated, the origin of the S-B1 -S-B2 calculation. Unfortunately, silly people imagine two S-B equations mean two radiation streams. Until the net flux is created, the vector sum of the Poynting Vectors, no thermodynamic work can be done. (The PVs are the temperature signals so a pyrgeometer does not measure energy flow.)
It gets a bit more complex because the atmosphere is semi transparent and there is a hitherto unreported bit of physics for GHG bands in self-absorption which means a radiometer in the atmosphere measures a very different signal to one in a vacuum, hence the stupid belief that self-absorption of the thermal CO2 15 micron band at TOA proves absorption of surface-emitted CO2 IR in that band when there is none!
Basically, these climate people have made 7 mistakes in the physics and expect us to kow-tow to incompetents. The modellers are OK though, just badly led.
[pyrometer ? Mod]

icarus62
December 25, 2012 4:42 pm

“Even if climate alarm were appropriate, economically speaking it would still be one or even two orders of magnitude more cost-effective to meet the invoice for adaptation to warming’s adverse consequences the day after tomorrow than to spend trillions futilely trying to prevent it today.”

It would be interesting to see a properly conducted and published study to support this claim. How do we know what the cost would be to prevent it, if we haven’t yet figured out what technology to use? How do we know the cost of adaption if we don’t yet know what the adverse consequences will be? It’s not obvious to me that a scheme for sequestering billions of tons of CO₂ and/or other greenhouse gases directly from the atmosphere would necessarily be more expensive than, say, moving hundreds of coastal cities inland as sea level rises.

davidmhoffer
December 25, 2012 4:45 pm

(The PVs are the temperature signals so a pyrgeometer does not measure energy flow.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
mods ~ this is classic Doug C*tton sl@yer sh*t. close to verbatim.

AlecM
December 25, 2012 4:46 pm

I see the fragrant JoBrighton is here telling us we are heating because the World has reached its highest temperature [since the MWP, the RWP and many prior to that]. The World is cooling as shown by the jet streams moving nearer the Equator and come 2015 we’ll start to really feel it.
There can be no CO2-AGW because the surface cannot emit that band IR. The real GHE is the rise in surface temperature because GHGs increase the impedance to heat surface transfer, most of which is convective/evapo-transpiration with the emitted water vapour side bands and the atmospheric window.
As for the real heating – last Century was a solar Grand Maximum, high solar magnetic field, low cloud cover. That has reversed now. The real AGW was Asian pollution reducing low level cloud albedo but that has no saturated.

handjive
December 25, 2012 4:57 pm

In Australia, the “canary in the coal-mine*”, it is drought free after 10 years** and despite the highest levels of carbon (sic) in 15 million years***.
* [ http://www.homepagedaily.com/Pages/article6789-australia-faces-collapse-as-climate-change-kicks-in.aspx ]
** [ http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2012/may/11/weatherwatch-drought-australia-floods ]
*** [ http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008152242.htm ]
Like Monckton of Brenchley’s announcement in Doha, this great news is met with silence.

AlecM
December 25, 2012 5:06 pm

Note to Mod: Pyrometers calibrate the measured equilibrium temperature of the sensor, or it could be an energy flux, to the source temperature in the view angle. A pyrgeometer is a pyrometer with an IR filter calibrated in W./m^2 against a cavity black body.
However, that too is a temperature signal convolved with emissivity, what you should get with the S-B equation. But it gets more complicated because the atmospheric window AW means a pyrgeometer can never equilibrate radiatively with a clear sky — it would have to cool until the radiative energy entering the sensor outside the AW equals the radiative energy leaving in the AW and for 16 °C air temperature, it would cool to -13.5 °C.
What takes over is internal convection hence all the funny equations with thermistors at various places. Pyrgeometers can radiatively equilibrate with a cloudy sky because the AW radiative loss [difference of Poynting Vectors integrated over all wavelengths] is much lower. In short pyrgeometers measure something very different to that claimed and don’t do it very well!

dmacleo
December 25, 2012 5:06 pm

HA Nice to see L. Monckton (sorry I have problems calling someone Lord, no offense meant) responding here 🙂
He’s a better man than I am I suspect.
If anyone desires he writes some good stuff on WND site.
Thank you sir for what you, and also everyone here, does.

mpainter
December 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Well, now
Any Christian might find himself offended at what he sees as public slurs against his religion posted on this day, of all days.
Not the smartest play in the playbook to make such a slur. Not the smartest play to defend such a slur. If the offender meant no offense, then he needs to explain himself. By the way, was Newton irreligious?

climatebeagle
December 25, 2012 5:09 pm

richard verney says:
>> One facet of the theory is that whenever there is a rise in CO2 concentrations temperatures must rise; they cannot stand steady, they canot fall.
I can never seem to find the step that takes me from CO2 is a greenhouse gas to temperatures must rise, can you point to that? Namely why temperatures must rise in a chaotic open system due to the addition of a greenhouse gas?

ocker
December 25, 2012 5:12 pm

There is a Sun Tzu quote along the lines of (paraphrase), “always leave you enemy a line of retreat, otherwise you will have to massacre everyone of your enemy”.
I think this is a case where I want to massacre the lot.

Greg House
December 25, 2012 5:16 pm

Werner Brozek says, December 25, 2012 at 4:03 pm:
Greg House says:December 25, 2012 at 2:29 pm Politicians and journalists can save face only blaming “climate scientists”. “Climate scientists” have no one else to blame and will suffer face loss accordingly.
I believe this needs to be carried one step further. Who is it that pays climate scientists the huge amounts of money to come up with scary scenarios due to warming?
================================================================
I do not know exactly, how this machinery works. I do not think we can expect “climate scientists” to give up and denounce AGW, that is the point, no rat hole for them is possible.
But we can work with the press and politicians. We should, however, keep in mind what sort of education most of them have.
Once the impression is established that the AGW ship is about to start sinking, the first “climate rats” will start leaving it and others seeing that will follow.

Rex
December 25, 2012 5:17 pm

JoBrighton says :
>> The last decade was of course the hottest decade since record keeping began”
A perfect example of how to use language to influence people’s thinking.
What, pray, is ‘hot’ about 14-15C ???

JoBrighton
December 25, 2012 5:18 pm

davidmhoffer, your analogy makes no sense in relation to the fact that 9 of the top 10 hottest years on record occurring in the last decade. As you’ll note in my post, I refer to the NOAA, which is the world’s leading global climate body as regards data gathering- as opposed to say the local historical records of monks. Furthermore, I note you say my points are refuted -for example on ice core data- but you didn’t elaborate which was refuted or why. Is there evidence in the ice core records CO2 higher in the past? Nope. Is there evidence it increased at any point in that record as fast as it has now? Nope..
Werner Brozek,
you say ” Now with regards to “ the hottest decade”, that is not relevant as far as NOAA is concerned. They are only interested in WARMING and not BEING WARM”
Actually, the NOAA makes a point of noting the last 3 decades on record are the warmest on record (with each subsequent one warmer than the previous one), because that’s indisputable evidence of a warming trend. If the next 3 decades on record are increasingly cooler, I’d say that was clear evidence of a cooling trend, but we both know that’s not going to happen. I’d happily take bets the current decade will be the warmest on record. Would this convince anyone who has yet to be convinced of a warming trend? Doubt it. The evidence is quite clear already, if you don’t want to accept it now, you’re not likely to in future.
This from the NOAA:
“For the first time, and in a single compelling comparison, the analysis brings together multiple observational records from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the ocean,” said Jane Lubchenco, Ph.D., under secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere and NOAA administrator. “The records come from many institutions worldwide. They use data collected from diverse sources, including satellites, weather balloons, weather stations, ships, buoys and field surveys. These independently produced lines of evidence all point to the same conclusion: our planet is warming,”

December 25, 2012 5:26 pm

AlecM says:
December 25, 2012 at 4:36 pm
And the physics at an end extreme interglacial would be………
Just in case there are those of us still inclined to a Hoyle steady-state universe…..
Not that I am averse to your proposition

DirkH
December 25, 2012 5:27 pm

“[pyrometer ? Mod]”
Pyrgeometer I assume.

mpainter
December 25, 2012 5:28 pm

JoBrighton says: December 25, 2012 at 4:01 pm
“The evidence in so far shows the scientists have been too conservative in their estimates of how fast and strong those climate change impacts will be.”
==============================
What climate change impacts, pray tell? Perhaps you refer to the record ice accumulations in Anarctica.
Certainly you cannot mean the milder winters that AGW theory projects, so tell us please, what impacts? Do you refer to the panic talk of James Hansen et al, citing drought, flood, killer heat wave, etc.? Is this what you mean? Then you should read the second order draft of IPCC AR5, recently librated. This reports that the claims of Hansen et al has no basis and that extreme weather events have not increased.
Once again, instead of pushing science, you push the panic button. You talk evidence, but where is it?

richard verney
December 25, 2012 5:37 pm

DirkH says:
December 25, 2012 at 4:33 pm
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I would not disagree that the mere fact that life conditions have existed on planet Earth for approximately 4 billion years is in itself strong evidence for negative feedbacks. Indeed, I put that forward as one of my two prime candidates which may explain why temperatures have not risen as predicted.
However, there are reasons to suspect that the radiative model may not be correct. AlecM has alluded to some of this. Further there are potential question marks regarding DWLWIR and water. The absorption characteristics of LWIR in water means that approximately half of all LWIR is absorbed within the first 6 microns. If DWLWIR is of the magnitude suggested by K&T then this would mean that there is such an absorption of energy within the first few microns of the oceans that one would expect to see rapid and significant evaporation of the top layer of the ocean unless the energy could some how be disippated downwards to the deeper ocean below. However, there are problems in disippating that energy downwards to depth since the temperature gradiatent at the top layer is upwards (the very top few microns are cooler than the next 20 or so microns such that one would have to explain how heat can be conducted against the flow of the temperature gradient and I have yet to see a satisfactory mechanism put forward to do this), or unless the ocean overturns at a rate faster than the rate at which DWLWIR is being absorbed. Again there is a problem since ocean overturning is a mechanical process measured in many many hours whereas DWLWIR is being absorbed almost instantaneously (photonic energy being inputted effectively at light speed).
I would not be surprised to see a reexamination of the radiative physics model should temperatures remain static or fall over the course of the next decade. In expressing this view I am not saying that just because the temperature does not increase the radiative model is wrong. I am merely suggesting that in these circumstances question marks are raised.

December 25, 2012 5:42 pm

Notwithstanding all the above.
IT IS NOT ABOUT FACTS
These members of the agw fraud cult care not one whit about 1 or 100,000 facts proven beyond a doubt.
Agenda, agenda, agenda.
Redistribution, revenge, wealth transfer, tax and spend, asset transfer by any means possible.
Media liars enable, rich descendants foolish guilt willingly transfering some of the wealth to feel good and the assistance of others of the feel good .
It is a cult.
They wish the current way of life dead and if we others have to go along to a mass gulag end of life so be it in their mad rush of selfdestruction.
It is not going to end with any hand shake and meeting of the minds on facts.

Pamela Gray
December 25, 2012 5:49 pm

Sometimes the tongue in cheek quips of moderators eclipse the schooled and carefully writ words of Lords.

DirkH
December 25, 2012 5:54 pm

AlecM says:
December 25, 2012 at 4:46 pm
“There can be no CO2-AGW because the surface cannot emit that band IR.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien%27s_displacement_law
“Radiation from mammals and the living human body: Mammals at roughly 300 K emit peak radiation at 3 thousand μm K / 300 K = 10 μm, in the far infrared. This is therefore the range of infrared wavelengths that pit viper snakes and passive IR cameras must sense.”
Given that CO2 has absorption lines around 15 micrometer I would say it has a chance of absorbing some IR produced by surface objects cooler than 37 deg C. But interestingly, a hot landscape at about 37 deg C would indeed have the IR radiation maximum at 10 mikrometer and those IR photons would not be affected by CO2’s absorption.

davidmhoffer
December 25, 2012 6:02 pm

Jo(notso)Brighton;
Is there evidence in the ice core records CO2 higher in the past? Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yep. Thousands of ppm in fact. Plant stomata studies from fossils show the exact same thing.
Jo(notso)Brighton;
Is there evidence it increased at any point in that record as fast as it has now? Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The evidence is that it increased after temperature increases and that it dropped after temperature decreases, suggesting that CO2 follows temperature, not the other way around. Not only does the ice core record show the opposite of what you claim, even warmist scientists accept that this is true, though they come up with some rather convoluted explanations for it. Point being that you clearly are not familiar with the ice core data and haven’t a clue what it actually says. You’re making statements that are pure bluff in the hopes that the audience will take you at your word. FAIL.
There’s plenty of threads on this site regarding the ice core data. You may want to become familiar with the actual data before spouting off and making a fool of yourself.

Werner Brozek
December 25, 2012 6:14 pm

icarus62 says:
December 25, 2012 at 4:42 pm
It’s not obvious to me that a scheme for sequestering billions of tons of CO₂ and/or other greenhouse gases directly from the atmosphere would necessarily be more expensive than, say, moving hundreds of coastal cities inland as sea level rises.
See: http://ukipscotland.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/longannet-carbon-capture-scheme-scrapped/
“Environment Canada wants to spend $6 billion to reduce the atmospheric concentration of a trace molecule by 0.01 ppmv, and assuming there is any advantage in doing so, supposedly cutting global temps by 0.0007°C. Just $84Trillion per degree”
When an oil company in our province asked for input for their carbon capture plan, I wrote about the huge costs for little gain. They thanked me for my input but it made no difference.

temp
December 25, 2012 6:15 pm

While I agree with many of the concepts and reality that lord monckton speaks of. One must also take a stand and say there is a line in the sand which you do not cross no matter the excuse. We drew that line one time by the rats who said “I was just following orders”.
When we look back at recent history we see both the population bomb and global cooling. They should be fresh in most minds. In both these cases we lets the rats run free and look at the plague they have brought us in global warming…
For the good of mankind clearly most of these rats must be caged and some put down so that other rats in the future understand. This is not some isolated incident anymore. If the rats are allowed to escape again they will be back… smarter, stronger and much more in numbers. They have tasted the cheese, in fact they have gouged upon it. They will never be able to live without that taste and feeling of fullness again. They will plot and scheme and be back.
We reap what we sow and we sowed into the very soul of ivory tower elites that they may rape and pillage across the land without punishment when they were given freebies for those last two events… we can not allow them to keep this idea. A line in the sand must be draw and if it cuts off a few rat heads along the way all the better.

John West
December 25, 2012 6:17 pm

Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
I’m afraid you have made a huge error in judgement. After being treated to such a thread we may have to form a secret ninja type squad to make sure you’re infected and isolated on a regular basis.

Darren Potter
December 25, 2012 6:26 pm

Truthseeker says: “… but it has the premise that these governments, bureaucrats and NGOs ultimately want to do the ‘right thing’ …” “The real problem is that the CAGW meme is just a justification for getting money …”
Not just money, but power and control. Whether that be to promote population control or exert power to control countries and their citizens. CAGW is a Cerberus, if not a Hydra.

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