UPDATE: The Russian TV channel “RT” aka “TV-Novosti” blames Monckton for the failure of COP18 to fail to reach an agreement:
The 18th Climate Change Summit in Doha is drawing to an end after once again failing to find common consensus on what it calls a major threat to human existence. Failure seemed inevitable after climate skeptic Lord Monckton crashed the event.
LOL! Source here
From Christopher Monckton of Brenchley in Doha, Qatar
I have been a bad boy. At the U.N. climate conference in Doha, I addressed a plenary session of national negotiating delegates though only accredited as an observer.
One just couldn’t resist. There they all were, earnestly outbidding each other to demand that the West should keep them in pampered luxury for the rest of their indolent lives, and all on the pretext of preventing global warming that has now become embarrassingly notorious for its long absence.
No one was allowed to give the alternative – and scientifically correct – viewpoint. The U.N.’s wall of silence was rigidly in place.
The microphone was just in front of me. All I had to do was press the button. I pressed it. The Chair recognized Myanmar (Burmese for Burma). I was on.
On behalf of the Asian Coastal Co-operation Initiative, an outfit I had thought up on the spur of the moment (it sounded just like one of the many dubious taxpayer-funded propaganda groups at the conference), I spoke for less than a minute.
Quietly, politely, authoritatively, I told the delegates three inconvenient truths they would not hear from anyone else:
• There has been no global warming for 16 of the 18 years of these wearisome, self-congratulatory yadayadathons.
• It is at least ten times more cost-effective to see how much global warming happens and then adapt in a focused way to what little harm it may cause than to spend a single red cent futilely attempting to mitigate it today.
• An independent scientific enquiry should establish whether the U.N.’s climate conferences are still heading in the right direction.
As I delivered the last of my three points, there were keening shrieks of rage from the delegates. They had not heard any of this before. They could not believe it. Outrage! Silence him! Free speech? No! This is the U.N.! Gettimoff! Eeeeeeeeeagh!
One of the hundreds of beefy, truncheon-toting U.N. police at the conference approached me as I left the hall and I was soon surrounded by him and a colleague. They took my conference pass, peered at it and murmured into cellphones.
Trouble was, they were having great difficulty keeping a straight face.
Put yourself in their sensible shoes. They have to stand around listening to the tedious, flatulent mendacities of pompous, overpaid, under-educated diplomats day after week after year. Suddenly, at last, someone says “Boo!” and tells the truth.
Frankly, they loved it. They didn’t say so, of course, or they’d have burst out laughing and their stony-faced U.N. superiors would not have been pleased.
I was amiably accompanied out into the balmy night, where an impressive indaba of stony-faced U.N. officials were alternately murmuring into cellphones and murmuring into cellphones. Murmuring into cellphones is what they do best.
After a few minutes the head of security – upper lip trembling and chest pulsating as he did his best to keep his laughter to himself – briefly stopped murmuring into his cellphone and bade me a cheerful and courteous goodnight.
The national delegation from Burma, whose microphone I had borrowed while they were out partying somewhere in the souk, snorted an official protest into its cellphone.
An eco-freako journalist, quivering with unrighteous indignation, wrote that I had been “evicted”. Well, not really. All they did was to say a cheery toodle-pip at the end of that day’s session. They couldn’t have been nicer about it.
The journalist mentioned my statement to my fellow-delegates that there had been no global warming for 16 years. What she was careful not to mention was that she had interviewed me at some length earlier in the day. She had sneered that 97% of climate scientists thought I was wrong.
I had explained to her that 100% of climate scientists would agree with me that there had been no global warming for 16 years if they were to check the facts, which is how science (as opposed to U.N. politics) is done.
I had also told her how to check the facts (but she had not checked them):
Step 1. Get the monthly mean global surface temperature anomalies since January 1997 from the Hadley Centre/CRU. The data, freely available online, are the U.N.’s preferred way to measure how much global warming has happened. Or you could use the more reliable satellite data from the University of Alabama at Huntsville or from Remote Sensing Systems Inc.
Step 2. Put the data into Microsoft Excel and use its routine that calculates the least-squares linear-regression trend on the data. Linear regression determines the underlying trend in a dataset over a given period as the slope of the unique straight line through the data that minimizes the sum of the squares of the absolute differences or “residuals” between the points corresponding to each time interval in the data and on the trend-line. Phew! If that is too much like doing real work (though Excel will do it for you at the touch of a button), find a friendly, honest statistician.
Step 3. Look up the measurement uncertainty in the dataset. Since measuring global temperature reliably is quite difficult, properly-collated temperature data are presented as central estimates flanked by upper and lower estimates known as the “error bars”.
Step 4. Check whether the warming (which is the difference between the first and last value on the trend-line) is greater or smaller than the measurement uncertainty. If it is smaller, falling within the error-bars, the trend is statistically indistinguishable from zero. There has been no warming – or, to be mathematically nerdy, there has been no statistically-significant warming.
The main point that the shrieking delegates here in Doha don’t get is this. It doesn’t matter how many profiteering mad scientists say global warming is dangerously accelerating. It isn’t. Period. Get over it.
The fact that there has been no global warming for 16 years is just that – a fact. It does not mean there is no such thing as global warming, or there has not been any global warming in the past, or there will be none in future.
In the global instrumental temperature record, which began in 1860, there have been several periods of ten years or more without global warming. However, precisely because these periods occur frequently, they tend to constrain the overall rate of warming.
Ideally, one should study periods of warming that are either multiples of 60 years or centered on a transition year between the warming and cooling (or cooling and warming) phases of the great ocean oscillations. That way, the distortions caused by the naturally-occurring 30-year cooling and 30-year warming phases are minimized.
Let’s do it. I have had the pleasure of being on the planet for 60 years. I arrived when it first became theoretically possible for our CO2 emissions to have a detectable effect on global temperature. From 1952 to the present, the planet has warmed at a rate equivalent to 1.2 Celsius degrees per century.
Or we could go back to 1990, the year of the first of the four quinquennial Assessment Reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPeCaC). It predicted that from 1990-2025 the world would warm at 3.0 Cº/century, giving 1 Cº warming by 2025.
Late in 2001 there was a phase-transition from the warming to the cooling phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the most influential of the ocean oscillations. From 1990-2001 is 11 years; from 2001-2012 is 11 years. So 1990-2012 is a period centered on a phase-transition: with minimal natural distortion, it will indicate the recent temperature trend.
Since 1990 the world has warmed at 1.4 Cº, century, or a little under 0.3 Cº in all. Note that 1.4 Cº/century is a little greater than the 1.2 Cº/century observed since 1952. However, the period since 1990 is little more than a third of the period since 1952, and shorter periods are liable to exhibit somewhat steeper trends than longer periods.
So the slightly higher warming rate of the more recent period does not necessarily indicate that the warming rate is rising, and it is certainly not rising dangerously.
For the 21st century as a whole, IPeCaC is predicting not 1.2 or 1.4 Cº warming but close to 3 Cº, more than doubling the observed post-1990 warming rate. Or, if you believe the latest scare paper from our old fiends the University of East Anglia, up to 6 Cº, quadrupling it.
That is not at all likely. The maximum warming rate that persisted for at least ten years in the global instrumental record since 1850 has been 0.17 Cº. This rate occurred from 1860-1880; 1910-1940; and 1976-2001.
It is only in the last of these three periods that we could have had any warming influence: yet the rate of warming over that period is the same as in the two previous periods.
All three of these periods of rapidish warming coincided with warming phases of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. The climate scare got underway about halfway through the 1976-2001 warming phase.
In 1976 there had been an unusually sharp phase-transition from the cooling to the warming phase. By 1988 James Hansen was making his lurid (and now disproven) temperature predictions before the U.S. Congress, after Al Gore and Sen. Tim Wirth had chosen a very hot June day for the hearing and had deliberately turned off the air-conditioning.
Here is a summary of the measured and predicted warming rates:
| Measured warming rate, 1997-2012 | 0.0 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1952-2012 | 1.2 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1990-2012 | 1.4 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1860-1880 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1910-1940 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Measured warming rate, 1976-2001 | 1.7 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (1990), 1990-2025 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate in IPCC (2007), 2000-2100 | 3.0 Cº/century |
| Predicted warming rate by UEA (2012), 2000-2100 | 4.0-6.0 Cº/century |
But it is virtually impossible to tell the negotiating delegates any of what I have set out here. They would simply not understand it. Even if they did understand it, they would not care. Objective scientific truth no longer has anything to do with these negotiations. Emotion is all.
A particularly sad example of the mawkish emotionalism that may yet destroy the economies of the West was the impassioned statement by the negotiating delegate from the Philippines to the effect that, after the typhoon that has just killed hundreds of his countrymen, the climate negotiations have taken on a new, life-or-death urgency.
As he left the plenary session, the delegates stood either side of the central aisle and showed their sympathy by applauding him. Sympathy for his country was appropriate; sympathy for his argument was not.
After 16 years with no global warming – and, if he reads this posting, he will know how to check that for himself rather than believing the soi-disant “consensus” – global warming that has not happened cannot have caused Typhoon Bhopa, any more than it could have caused extra-tropical storm Sandy.
It is possible that illegal mining and logging played no small part in triggering the landslide that killed many of those who lost their lives.
Perhaps the Philippines should join the Asian Coastal Co-Operation Initiative. Our policy is that the international community should assist all nations to increase their resilience in the face of the natural disasters that have been and will probably always be part of life on Earth.
That is an objective worthier, more realistic, more affordable, and more achievable than attempting, Canute-like, to halt the allegedly rising seas with a vote to establish a second “commitment period” under the Kyoto Protocol.
Will someone please tell the delegates? Just press the button and talk. You may not be heard, though. Those who are not partying somewhere in the souk will be murmuring into their cellphones.
===============================================================
Footnote by Anthony: Here is the video on Monckton’s address to the Doha COP18 conference.
No video has yet surfaced of him being “evicted” as the Telegraph journalist claims, suggesting that Monckton’s account of leaving the hall might be more accurate. The chair on the dais says “thank you” at the end, and didn’t call for security to evict Monckton.
Note: See also this week’s Friday Funny for Josh’s take on this. – Anthony
@richardscourtney
I suppose you are using the criterion that whoever posts last wins the argument: in that case there’s no way I can ever win.
Me (when my posts haven’t been censored), others here, and many articles on science websites, have explained why you cannot conclude that global warming has stopped given the data: I’ve also tried to address a few other points explaining the problems and pointed people in the direction of some relevant mainstream climate science. The responses have been a bizarre mixture of non-sequiturs, blind repetition of the original claim, segueing into irrelevant areas, complete nonsense, and they generally convey a lack of understanding of how science works. It would be an endless time sink to respond to every individual point made and I’m not going to do so.
And when it comes to personal abuse, I see the words idiot, ecobums, disingenuous (that was the word that apparently got my post rejected), mendaciously fabricated, and various other derogatory phrases applied on this page alone to those with whom people disagree. What a double standard.
[Reply: spvincent, as a long time moderator I can state unequivocally that no comment from anyone, you included, has ever been deleted for using the word “disingenuous”. Read the site Policy page, and maybe you will locate the reason your comment was snipped, if that in fact happened. — mod.]
Monckton of Brenchley says: December 7, 2012 at 11:43 am
Off to the airport tomorrow morning, as planned, to head back to snowy Blighty (more global warming needed).
Seems like you might made it out just in time, a number of other European delegates may be stuck in Doha due to the snow:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20661372
Christopher, the mathematician in you will appreciate this statistical
debunkingdetonation of the model’s methodology:http://economics.huji.ac.il/facultye/beenstock/Nature_Paper091209.pdf
Isn’t it utterly fascinating the way the Warmists have got the awful habit of accusing us skeptics of their own worst traits? It may even be a deliberate strategy. For example….
When Michael Mann was cleared by the same University authorities that cleared serial pedophile Jerry Sandusky, it was only a matter of a few weeks before the creepy guy at the Australian ABC likened CAGW skeptics to pedophiles….
Or shortly after Nasa staff including men who walked on the moon express their skepticism…the Warmist PR, machine accuses us all of being flat earthers!
Or best of all, the insistence that we skeptics are part of a shadowy conspiracy funded by big tobacco or some such nonsense, when it’s abundantly clear that big energy, big government big Green and big PR, have thrown billions at Global Warming, and they still can’t make it stick!
But anyhoo…back in the day when I occasionally got posted in Warmist forums I was confronted with
“a bizarre mixture of non-sequiturs, blind repetition of the original claim, segueing into irrelevant areas, complete nonsense, and generally a lack of understanding of how science works.”
Of course these sites do not brook any opposition at all these days and have become echo chambers, it’s great that WUWT permits the Warmists to reveal their fundamentally flawed thinking.
Thanks SP Vincent!
typo: “the models’ methodology”.
The implications are that CO2 doubling can produce, at most, a blip.
Well it seems that 414 + posts have degenerated into a donnybrook, as to the meaning of “no statistically significant global warming.”
Well actually, most of the argument seems to be about some temperature (anomaly) concoction of numbers purportedly derived from some set(s) of “sensors”, thermometers, tree rings, and other proxies for actual temperature measurements. So it’s really an argument about statistical mathematics. Apparently, stat maths is as dismal a discipline, as it is cracked up to be, if different stat gurus, get different answers from the exact same set(s) of raw numbers.
But based on their conclusions, they either conclude that there has been statistically significant global warming; or there hasn’t been statistically significant global warming.
Well we do know from Anthony’s global climate widget, that there HAS been global warming. That cyan graph goes up (global warming) and it goes down (global cooling); and it does both all the time as plotted on the widget.
Well you see “global warming” has come to mean an up tick in the output of those statistical prestidigitations done on the numbers that comprise the various observed “data sets”.
And apparently the gurus can’t agree even on that.
The big problem of course is those numbers have almost nothing to do with global climate, or global warming. They are local data after all, not global; not even a valid spatial sample of the globe. You have to have valid data samples, before those statistical formulas mean anything. Even the “average” of those numbers, is corrupted by aliassing noise.
And we have (evidently) 23 different theoretical models that are telling us loudly, that those numbers have nothing to do with global warming. If they did, we would only have one theoretical model of the global climate; not 23.
In any case Lord Monckton simply cited Phil Jones, in his own words; that he has stated publicly; “there has been no statistically significant global warming for the last 16 years”. Well there certainly hasn’t been any significant global warming; not with a global daily temperature range of more than 100 deg C, and possibly as much as 150 deg C. Certainly not enought to justify 415 + posts.
Which is not to deny the local anecdotal reports of local coolings and local warmings, and local rain, and local drought.
A flashback to 1993 and how difficult it is in California to do something as small and simple as lighting a black painted magnesium computer case on fire. http://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html
It’s only gotten worse since.
spvincent:
I see that Anthony and the Moderators are having difficulties addressing falsehoods from trolls. Perhaps this is a result of a directive from ‘troll central’?
I write to answer your disingenuous post addressed to me at December 9, 2012 at 9:27 pm.
You say
NO!
The troll who posts as Phil does that, not me.
In this thread I discovered that the troll joeldshore had posted about this thread on another thread which I had left to give “the last word” to a warmunist. And I found out what joldshore had done because he was stupid enough to link to it on this thread. But I still desisted from further involvement in that thread.
You say
I do not believe your posts have been censored for any reason other than your breaching site policy. WUWT is the success it is precisely because it does NOT use the censorship of opposing views which is practiced by warmunist blogs.
The so-called ‘climate scientists’ assess ‘global warming’ as being a positive linear trend in global temperature which is discernible with 95% confidence. Hence, according to that definition, Lord Monckton was right when he said,
“There has been no global warming for 16 of the 18 years of these wearisome, self-congratulatory yadayadathons .”
What he did say is important, and he did not say, “Global warming has stopped”. The phrase “global warming has stopped” is your misrepresentation.
There has been no global warming discernible at 95% confidence for over 15 years. That may or may not mean “global warming has stopped” but it does mean two things
(a) the previous global warming discernible at 95% confidence has stopped
and
(b) the criterion for falsifying the climate models has been reached and thus the models are known to be wrong.
You say
Your assertions seem to be an example of psychological projection. I will not bother to refute all of them, but I point out that it is you who has demonstrated a “lack of understanding of how science works”.
Science
consists of obtaining the closest possible approximation to ‘truth’ by seeking information which refutes existing understanding and amending the understanding in light of the information.
Pseudoscience
consists of deciding an understanding is ‘truth’ seeking information which supports it while finding excuses to ignore information which refutes it.
In this thread you and the other trolls have been providing a ‘text book’ demonstration of pure pseudoscience.
You say
So what?
You chose to make your posts and anybody has a right to answer them. And if your posts are cogent then onlookers will see that whatever the responses made by others.
You say you want the ‘last word’. Perhaps the reason you and other trolls always want the ‘last word’ (and falsely accuse others of wanting it) is that you know what you say is easily refuted because it is plain wrong.
You say
There is no “double standard”. If you have been “disingenuous” or have “mendaciously fabricated” then expect to be called on it. Onlookers can assess “derogatory phrases” for themselves.
Some people (e.g. joeldshore and Phil) have acquired reputations for misbehaviour, misrepresentation and mendaciousness in their many posts on WUWT. ‘Regulars’ to WUWT know that so ignore and/or distrust posts from them. Whining nonsense such as your post which I am answering provides the possibility that you may damage your credibility, too.
Richard
Phil.:
I am not copying all of your long post at December 9, 2012 at 7:27 pm although I know you will use that as a claim that I am quoting out of context (which I never do).
You say that “on another thread” you “pointed out” what you claim is an error I made. You did not cite or link to that other thread so – on the basis of your past behaviour – I suspect it was not a relevant thread and you were trying to pretend I could not answer.
Anyway, assuming you there made the same point as in your post I am answering, I address it here.
You claim that I misquoted because I did not include the sentence which you (and I) bolden in this statement.
I did NOT misquote anything.
I quoted verbatim and your argument is false.
Firstly, the boldened sentence is a ‘get out clause’. What is appropriate “adjustment”? The sentence allows post hoc adjustment to the falsification criterion and, therefore, is properly disregarded. Indeed, the model simulations do NOT “adjust” for ENSO: they do not model it!
Secondly, ENSO is not included in the models because it is not understood. Indeed, ENSO is an emergent property of the system which the models fail to emulate. So, how does one reasonably “adjust” for something which is not understood?
Thirdly, one reasonable way to adjust for not-understood ENSO is to interpolate over the period to be “adjusted”. Another way is to extrapolate over the period to be “adjusted”.
If one does such an interpolation over the period 1997 to 2001 or if one extrapolates from the present back across the period from 2001 to 1997 then one still obtains no discernible rise in temperature at 95% confidence.
In conclusion, your assertions are false.
Richard
UPDATE: The Russian TV channel “RT” aka “TV-Novosti” blames Monckton for the failure of COP18 to fail to reach an agreement:
————
But I have just read that they have reached an agreement. So maybe Christopher was so annoying that it prompted them to stop stuffing about and take the final step (grin).
Brian H:
Thankyou very much indeed for your post at December 9, 2012 at 10:39 pm which links to the paper at
http://economics.huji.ac.il/facultye/beenstock/Nature_Paper091209.pdf
It is a very interesting paper which – as you say – indicates
And, therefore, it explains WHY Lord Monckton’s statement concerning lack of recent warming is true.
I note two things about the paper.
I was amused by its saying this
That is not a surprise to anybody familiar with this
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo/climatedata/uc0102.htm
And its findings are a demonstration of negative feedback in the system: i.e. the climate system acts to oppose effects of any change to its inputs. This is the opposite of the assumption of positive feedback in the system; i.e. the models assume the climate system acts to enhance effects of any change to its inputs (e.g. by water vapour feedback).
It also agrees with empirical measurements of climate sensitivity to increased atmospheric CO2 concentration which indicate that It is probable that atmospheric CO2 concentrations cannot have a discernible effect. This is because climate sensitivity to atmospheric CO2 concentration is less than 1deg.C for a doubling of atmospheric CO2 concentration.
Empirical – n.b. not model-derived – determinations indicate climate sensitivity is less than 1.0deg.C for a doubling of atmospheric CO2 equivalent. This is indicated by the studies of Idso from surface measurements
http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/Idso_CR_1998.pdf
and Lindzen & Choi from ERBE satelite data
http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf
and Gregory from balloon radiosonde data
http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/OLR&NGF_June2011.pdf
If climate sensitivity is less than 1 deg.C for a doubling of CO2 equivalent, then it is physically impossible for the man-made global warming to be large enough to be detected because natural variability is much, much larger. If something exists but is too small to be detected then it only has an abstract existence; it does not have a discernible existence that has effects (observation of the effects would be its detection).
Negative feedback explains these findings.
Richard
spvincent says:
December 9, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Me (when my posts haven’t been censored), others here, and many articles on science websites, have explained why you cannot conclude that global warming has stopped given the data
Statistically, there has been no further warming for the past 16 years. That is a fact. You and your cohorts continually try to sidestep, tapdance and spin around it, but the fact remains. No, it doesn’t give us a trend, being too short a time period. It simply means your cherished GCMs are bunk, something we’ve known all along. When the same thing keeps having to be explained to you people over and over again, is it any wonder that terms such as “disingenuous” and “idiot” appear?
I realize how difficult this must be for you. Your great Global Warming Gravy Train is being derailed. The entire Warmist Belief system is coming to an end, which must be scary for you. Buck up, though. The world of actual science, and truth is a far, far preferable one. In the end, you will thank us.
The Guardian has run a piece about Doha today.
The journalist was very sad that emissions continue to rise.
Just for fun I pointed out that temperatures do not and have not for 16 years.
Moderated in 2 minutes.
I posted again asking if you can b moderated simply for mentioning the met office temperature records. Moderated and the stub vanished.
I like IPCC = IPECAC Nice one, Lord M. Ipecac makes you sick………
I just love Lord Monckton’s puckish sense of humor.
It would be entertaining to hear the U.N. police retelling of the tale. I wonder if they could get through telling about it without busting a gut laughing.
richardscourtney said:
And, as Phil. has pointed out, you quote lacks the context regarding the ENSO-adjustment and, as I pointed out, you have interpreted that statement in a way that is not the most natural interpretation. The rest of your post is long on invective and short on any discussion of the point that I have raised.
You can’t just disregard things that you don’t like. They clearly said that their statement applies to the ENSO-adjusted data. And, they give a reference to a paper where they discuss how such adjustments are done. So, no, they are not just making a non-falsifiable claim.
spvincent says: “It seems to me that the Viscount wasn’t taken seriously in Doha: nor should he have been … (not to mention his stupid antics).”
Asking for clarification: Your position is that Monckton’s anti-GW comments should not be taken seriously because of how he presented them (aks “stupid antics”)?
The unbelievable outcome of this IPCC global warming fraud is that CO2 is labled a dangerous pollutant and billions of pounds/dollars/euros needlessly spent limiting its concentration in the atmosphere. Unbelievable because CO2 absorbs only a small fraction of the LWIR radiated from Earth and there is more than enough CO2 at 380 ppm to absorb all of this small fraction of absorbable LWIR; in fact half the concentration say 200 ppm would be enough to absorb the same amount but vegetation and plant life would start to suffer. Doubling CO2 to 750 ppm would also absorb the same amount no more no less without any effect on global warming; but of course plant life would thrive with increased yields.
joeldshore:
I am replying to your ridiculous post at December 10, 2012 at 6:19 am merely to demonstrate that I am not ignoring it.
You dispute the true statements (at December 10, 2012 at 2:59 am) in my reply to Phil. Those true statements said
Your post asserts that I “redefined” what the NOAA document said.
A verbatim quotation is NOT a redefinition.
You say
Bollocks!
I made no “interpretation”! I accepted what the words said,.
Your assertion about “context” is nonsense as my reply to Phil explained.
But you assert
I did NOT say they made an unfalsifiable statement.
And I did NOT “just disregard” anything!
Either you did not read what I wrote or you are deliberately stating falsehoods.
1.
I explained that ENSO is not understood so there is no certain method to adjust for it.
2.
Hence, I argued that such “adjustment” is probably unfounded because it enables post hoc adjustments to the falsifiability criterion.
3.
But I wrote
Joel, all your posts are problematic, but the post I am answering is untrue and desperate. If it is the best you can do to Shore-up your superstitious belief in discernible AGW then I suggest you would do better to abandon the superstition.
Richard
I would really like to complete steps 1 – 4, but I can not find the data required for step 1. Can someone show how to get the data, or provide a link? Thanks
richardscourtney says:
December 10, 2012 at 2:59 am
Phil.:
I am not copying all of your long post at December 9, 2012 at 7:27 pm although I know you will use that as a claim that I am quoting out of context (which I never do).
But you did here!
You say that “on another thread” you “pointed out” what you claim is an error I made. You did not cite or link to that other thread so – on the basis of your past behaviour – I suspect it was not a relevant thread and you were trying to pretend I could not answer.
As usual you resort to ad hominem, since I was answering you it was as relevant as your post. Actually I also addressed it earlier in this thread and linked to the other thread (the same one where Joel posted), you posted minutes later two posts below mine I’m surprised you didn’t see it.
You claim that I misquoted because I did not include the sentence which you (and I) bolden in this statement.
“ENSO-adjusted warming in the three surface temperature datasets over the last 2–25 yr continually lies within the 90% range of all similar-length ENSO-adjusted temperature changes in these simulations (Fig. 2.8b). Near-zero and even negative trends are common for intervals of a decade or less in the simulations, due to the model’s internal climate variability. The simulations rule out (at the 95% level) zero trends for intervals of 15 yr or more, suggesting that an observed absence of warming of this duration is needed to create a discrepancy with the expected present-day warming rate.”
I did NOT misquote anything.
I quoted verbatim and your argument is false.
You did exactly what I said you did, you omitted the context and then used the quotation out of the authors’ context, which is a misrepresentation.
Firstly, the boldened sentence is a ‘get out clause’. What is appropriate “adjustment”? The sentence allows post hoc adjustment to the falsification criterion and, therefore, is properly disregarded. Indeed, the model simulations do NOT “adjust” for ENSO: they do not model it!
It’s not a ‘get out’ clause it’s the context in which the models were run, namely in the absence of ENSO, consequently they compare with ENSO adjusted data. As to what a proper adjustment, they tell you, they reference a paper describing the process.
Secondly, ENSO is not included in the models because it is not understood. Indeed, ENSO is an emergent property of the system which the models fail to emulate. So, how does one reasonably “adjust” for something which is not understood?
Well you could read the paper to find out. You’re not quite accurate here either, like volcanoes the effect can be quantified but the timing and magnitude can’t be predicted in advance. You could describe them using a Poisson sequence and estimate their frequency over time but not predict exactly when one will occur.
Thirdly, one reasonable way to adjust for not-understood ENSO is to interpolate over the period to be “adjusted”. Another way is to extrapolate over the period to be “adjusted”.
If one does such an interpolation over the period 1997 to 2001 or if one extrapolates from the present back across the period from 2001 to 1997 then one still obtains no discernible rise in temperature at 95% confidence.
This is nonsense, especially when one ‘cherry picks’ as you do, selecting an El Niño for the start of your period and a La Niña for the end.
In conclusion, your assertions are false.
No they are accurate, yours are not however!
richardscourtney says:
December 10, 2012 at 10:23 am
joeldshore:
I am replying to your ridiculous post at December 10, 2012 at 6:19 am merely to demonstrate that I am not ignoring it.
You dispute the true statements (at December 10, 2012 at 2:59 am) in my reply to Phil. Those true statements said
I did NOT misquote anything.
I quoted verbatim and your argument is false.
Your post asserts that I “redefined” what the NOAA document said.
A verbatim quotation is NOT a redefinition.
It is when you deliberately apply it to a situation to which the authors explicitly say it doesn’t apply.
You say
And, as Phil. has pointed out, you quote lacks the context regarding the ENSO-adjustment and, as I pointed out, you have interpreted that statement in a way that is not the most natural interpretation.
Bollocks!
I made no “interpretation”! I accepted what the words said,.
No you didn’t, you ignored the authors’ statement that their comment referred to ENSO-adjusted data only and then chose to apply it to data which was not adjusted. That’s not only an ‘interpretation’ it’s a patently false one, and one which you knew to be false!
Phil:
I write to inform onlookers that I have read your twaddle
at December 10, 2012 at 5:53 pm
and
at December 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm.
I gave complete answers to that untrue twaddle
at December 10, 2012 at 2:59 am
and
at December 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm.
History shows that you will blather on and on and on and … until you get the ‘last word’.
You now have the last word so – with complete disrespect to you – I am content to allow others to assess our comments for themselves.
Richard
richardscourtney says:
December 11, 2012 at 4:43 am
Phil:
I write to inform onlookers that I have read your twaddle
at December 10, 2012 at 5:53 pm
and
at December 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm.
Good then there’s no need to say any more on the subject, unless of course you post your misrepresentations of the NOAA paper again in which case I’ll repost the rebuttal.
I realize it was off-topic, but to me what I wrote is very important. May I at least ask that my comment gets to Lord Monckton?
[Reply: I checked the Spam folder. No comments from you there. WordPress has dropped more comments recently. Please re-post if you have it and I will make sure it is approved. — mod.]