Speak loudly and carry a busted hockey stick

by Walter Starck (in Quadrant Online)


The average temperature for the Earth, or any region or even any specific place is very difficult to determine with any accuracy.  At any given time surface air temperatures around the world range over about 100°C. Even in the same place they can vary by nearly that much seasonally and as much as 30°C or more in a day. Weather stations are relatively few and located very irregularly. Well maintained stations with good records going back a century or more can be counted on one’s fingers. Even then only maximum and minimum temperatures or ones at a few particular times of day are usually available.  Maintenance, siting, and surrounding land use also all have influences on the temperatures recorded.


The purported 0.7°C of average global warming over the past century is highly uncertain. It is in fact less than the margin of error in our ability to determine the average temperature anywhere, much less globally. What portion of any such warming might be due to due to anthropogenic CO2 emissions is even less certain. There are, however, numerous phenomena which are affected by temperature and which can provide good evidence of relative warming or cooling and, in some cases, even actual temperatures.

These include growth rings in trees, corals and stalactites, borehole temperature profiles and the isotopic and biologic signatures in core samples from sediments or glaciers. In addition, historical accounts of crops grown, harvest times, freezes, sea ice, river levels, glacial advances or retreats and other such records provide clear indication of warming and cooling.

Recent Warming Nothing Unusual

The temperature record everywhere shows evidence of warming and cooling in accord with cycles on many different time scales from daily to annual, decadal, centennial, millennial and even longer. Many of these seem to correlate with various cycles of solar activity and the Earth’s own orbital mechanics. The temperature record is also marked by seemingly random events which appear to follow no discernable pattern.

Over the past 3000 years there is evidence from hundreds of independent proxy studies, as well as historical records, for a Minoan Warm period around 1000 BC, a Roman Warm Period about 2000 years ago, a Medieval Warm Period (WMP) about 1000 years ago and a Modern Warm Period now developing. In between were markedly colder periods in the Dark Ages and another between the 16th and 19th centuries which is now known as the Little Ice Age (LIA). The warmer periods were times of bountiful crops, increasing population and a general flourishing of human societies. The cold periods were times of droughts, famines, epidemics, wars and population declines. Clearly life has been much better in the times of warmer climate, and there is nothing to indicate that the apparent mild warming of the past century is anything other than a return of this millennial scale warming cycle.

Good News Unwelcome to Alarmists

This rather good news about a possibly warmer climate has not met with hopeful interest from those who purport to be so concerned about the possibly dangerous effects of anthropogenic global warming (AGW). On the contrary, their reaction has overwhelmingly been a strong rejection of any beneficial possibility. It is apparent that their deepest commitment is to the threat itself and not to any rational assessment of real world probabilities or the broader consequences of any of their proposed remedies.

Fabricating a Hockey Stick from Hot Air

This blanket rejection of any possibility other than the hypothetical threat of AGW has led to some strange behaviour for people who modestly proclaim themselves to be the world’s top climate scientists.  Not only have they ignored and dismissed the hundreds of studies indicating the global existence of a Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, they have set out to fabricate an alternate reality in the form of a graph purporting to represent the global temperature for the past thousand years. It portrays a near straight line wiggling up and down only a fraction of a degree for centuries until it begins an exponential rise gradually starting at the beginning of the 20th century and then shooting steeply up in the latter part of that century. This hockey stick-shaped graph was then heavily promoted as the icon of AGW. It appeared on the cover of the third climate assessment report of the IPCC published in 2003 and was reproduced at various places in the report itself.

Among the emails between leading climate researchers released in the Climategate affair were a number which revealed a concerted effort to come up with some means to deny the existence of the MWP. The implement chosen to do this became known as the Hockey Stick Graph.

The methodology used to construct the graph involved the use of estimates of temperatures from a very small sample of tree growth rings from the Yamal Peninsula in far northern Siberia and ancient stunted pine trees from near the tree line in the High Sierras of California. This data was then subjected to a statistical treatment later shown by critics to produce a hockey stick form of graph even when random numbers were used as raw input data. To make matters even worse, the same tree ring data also indicated a significant decline in temperature for the 20th century, but this was hidden by burying it in a much larger number of data points from instrument measurements. The resulting study was published in the prestigious scientific journal, Nature in 1998. Remarkably, this very small, highly selected and deceptively manipulated graph was proclaimed to be an accurate representation of global temperatures and the extensive body of contrary evidence was simply ignored.

full essay here: http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2012/11/speak-loudly-and-carry-a-busted-hockey-stick

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LetsBeReasonable
November 28, 2012 12:08 am

Thanks Mario and Darren, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. From what you both say, my interpretation appears to agree with your explanation. It would appear that the temperature is increasing, despite the negative feedback from water vapour via cloud formation as the permafrost is melting where previously it was frozen. This melting will cause more CO2 and methane to be released into the atmosphere causing a positive feedback. This is a worrying development. Any thoughts on this issue? I would like to hear your thoughts.

Reply to  LetsBeReasonable
November 28, 2012 7:18 pm

LetsBeReasonable says:
November 28, 2012 at 12:08 am
“Thanks Mario and Darren…From what you both say, my interpretation appears to agree with your explanation. It would appear that the temperature is increasing, despite the negative feedback from water vapour via cloud formation as the permafrost is melting where previously it was frozen…”
No I do not agree that it would appear the temperature is increasing. The temperature is going up and going down and seemingly has been flat since 1997. The idea that measuring the air temperature provides us with the energy balance of the earth is silly. And we do not know, nor can we measure, the sum of the feedbacks with any type of certainty.
What I explained was the logarithmic “warming” effect which CO2 is theoretically claimed to have. There are many many things changing… I do not subscribe to the idea that CO2 or Methane is known to be responsible for what the climate is doing now, will do in the future and has done in the past.
Here’s a question for you that I can not answer. Why has every ice age in documented history begun suddenly after temperatures were increasing to maximal points and while CO2 was on the way up… following not leading temperatures?

Kev-in-Uk
November 28, 2012 1:15 am

LetsBeReasonable says:
November 28, 2012 at 12:08 am
”..It would appear that the temperature is increasing, despite the negative feedback from water vapour via cloud formation as the permafrost is melting where previously it was frozen. This melting will cause more CO2 and methane to be released into the atmosphere causing a positive feedback. This is a worrying development. Any thoughts on this issue? I would like to hear your thoughts.”
This sounds rather like some spoon-fed alarmist rubbish, to be honest, and is based mostly on wide ranging ‘assumptions’. If you are going to mention some of these things, it is probable that you have no grasp of the real scale of the Earth’s Carbon/CO2 cycle for example. The oceans contain many many times more CO2 than the atmosphere, along with methane clathrates, etc, etc. The ocean waters do act as sinks (absorbers) of CO2 but can also be emitters. Similarly, the worlds biomass contains vast quantities of carbon, much of which would be released via methane and co2 should significant changes occur or contrastly can act as sinks by absorbing CO2 (say from planting massive forests, or sudden algal blooms). These changes could be quite large ‘locally’ but are mere snips in the grand scale – it does not mean that they will ‘tip’ the climate into meltdown!
With respect, I think you need to do a lot of reading to understand the scale of the subject matter, and the massive changes previously undergone in the earths climate, before repeating such ‘worrying developments’ (your words) that you have heard (or indeed wish to promote?).

November 28, 2012 1:41 am

gnomish:
At November 27, 2012 at 6:24 pm you claim I was wrong.
That is all the confirmation anybody needs that I was right.
The assertion that “H1tler was a fascist” is untrue, is daft, and is irrelevant to this thread, so it could be expected that you would agree with it.
Richard

Another Ian
November 28, 2012 2:01 am

Re Mario Lento says:
November 27, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Or like the balanced Australian with a chip on both shoulders?

Merovign
November 28, 2012 2:08 am

richardscourtney says:
November 27, 2012 at 5:15 pm
In politics, actions speak louder than words. And the ultra-right always pretends to be socialist.

Your position depends on a narrow European definition of “right” and “left” established by the “left” there that lumbers the “right” with every social evil, especially authoritarianism.
Which is ironic as both right and left in Europe are fundamentally authoritarian, and the rest of the “social evils” seem to be distributed pretty generally.
When you’re talking, for example, to an American, your statement comes across as nonsense, as it’s based on a definition that is locally irrelevant.
Just so you know.

November 28, 2012 2:12 am

LetsBeReasonable:
At November 27, 2012 at 7:01 pm you say and ask me;

Thanks Richard for your input, I found it interesting. I am wondering if the slight cooling since 1997 may lie with in the margin of error? Do you know what the period of time we would need to be able to say the heating/warming would be significant?
On another matter, a report on the permafrost melting has just been released. The concern raised is that this will release massive amounts of methane and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and act as a positive feedback loop.

Answers to your questions depend on what you mean by “significant”.
The ‘lack of warming’ over the last ~16 years is statistically significant according to the “margin of error” claimed by providers of the data sets. Similarly, the periods of ‘lack of warming’ from ~1880 to ~1910 and from ~1940 to ~1970 are statistically significant.
Shorter periods of ‘lack of warming’ exist in the data sets but they are not statistically significant.
The recent period of ‘lack of warming’ differs from shorter periods of ‘lack of warming’ in the data sets in that it is statistically significant and they are not. I explain the significance of this difference at November 26, 2012 at 2:46 am in the thread at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/25/skeptical-science-misrepresents-their-animation-the-escalator/
Simply, the recent ‘lack of warming’ demonstrates that natural climate variability is sufficient to overwhelm any effect of recent rise in atmospheric CO2 and, therefore, recovery from the Little Ice Age is the most likely explanation of recent global temperature rise.
The ‘methane feedback’ scare is completely without evidence and is improbable. Atmospheric methane concentration varies in the air for completely unknown reasons and in unpredictable ways. Melting of permafrost has been happening in Greenland and elsewhere without observation of the speculated “positive feedback loop” on temperature: n.b. global temperature has not risen for ~16 years.
Richard

November 28, 2012 2:29 am

In my post at November 28, 2012 at 1:41 am where i wrote
“The assertion that “H1tler was a fascist” is untrue …”
If course, I intended to write
“The assertion that “H1tler was not a fascist but was a socialist” is untrue …”
Clearly, I should not write while angry at outrageous falsehoods. Sorry.
Richard

LetsBeReasonable
November 28, 2012 2:33 am

Kevin, I take you don’t accept the UN report presented today at DOHA. I accept what it had to say because I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary.
I must admit I do dismiss arguments that the earth’s climate has gone through changes in the past because when the conditions existed, modern humans weren’t around so it is immaterial if the climate was hostile to humans. I am concerned about the liveability of the earth now and in the next 50 years.
I accept you premise that there are huge sinks of carbon etc, my concern is with the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is growing steadily and the rate will increase with the positive feedback mechanism of the permafrost melting.
I hope you are correct that it will not ‘tip the climate into meltdown’, but we are not sure what the effect of a rapid increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will be, and that is why it is a worrying development.

Jimbo
November 28, 2012 2:38 am

Mikel Mariñelarena says:
November 27, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Re: Mosher November 27, 2012 at 9:07 am
I agree with Steven Mosher that you cannot start dismissing the instrumental records and then take for granted that the MWP or the Minoan Warming did take place. Besides, I fail to see any correlation between global warmth and prosperity.

Speaking for myself, I don’t dismiss ALL of the instrumental record; just those badly sited thermometer – you know, the ones in car parks etc, etc.
As for global warmth and prosperity take a closer look at ALL of the Holocene and you “can’t fail to see”. The Holocene actually says it all. During ice ages there were more desserts. Finally, take a look at a photo of the Earth from space and look at the biosphere and green areas. Look at species concentration from the equator up to the poles. You “can’t fail to see”.

LetsBeReasonable
November 28, 2012 2:41 am

Richard, I did mean statistically significant, so thank you for your explanation. Do I take it, that over the period from 1880 to present, the temperature change would also be statistically significant.
As you have pointed out the temperature rise over the last 16 years is not statistically significant, I wonder why the melting of the permafrost is occurring. Could the melting be keeping the earth’s temperature constant?

November 28, 2012 2:41 am

Merovign:
At November 28, 2012 at 2:08 am you respond to my true statement saying

In politics, actions speak louder than words. And the ultra-right always pretends to be socialist.

you reply saying

Your position depends on a narrow European definition of “right” and “left” established by the “left” there that lumbers the “right” with every social evil, especially authoritarianism.
Which is ironic as both right and left in Europe are fundamentally authoritarian, and the rest of the “social evils” seem to be distributed pretty generally.
When you’re talking, for example, to an American, your statement comes across as nonsense, as it’s based on a definition that is locally irrelevant.

Perhaps it “comes across” to you as “nonsense” but that does not stop it being true. Indeed, H1tler was a European so in this context only the European meanings of “left” and “right” have meaning (regardless of how the American right wants to distort them).
The claim that “H1tler was a socialist” is as offensive as a claim that “H1tler was a Jew” and for precisely the same reason; i.e. he rounded-up both and tried to exterminate them.
Richard

George Lawson
November 28, 2012 2:44 am

Here in the United Kingdom we are experiencing severe nationwide flooding which naturally is commanding a large proportion of TV news bulletins. Not once have I heard anyone talk about the excessive rain being caused by Global Warming or Climate Change. Most unusual for the BBC who are normally very quick to attribute unusual weather patterns to Climate Change. Perhaps the stinging criticism of biased reporting that they have suffered in recent months is having an effect after all. I did hear one reporter get close to it when he said “These are all time record floods for the last hundred years!”

November 28, 2012 3:24 am

LetsBeReasonable:
At November 28, 2012 at 2:41 am you reply to me saying and asking;

Richard, I did mean statistically significant, so thank you for your explanation. Do I take it, that over the period from 1880 to present, the temperature change would also be statistically significant.
As you have pointed out the temperature rise over the last 16 years is not statistically significant, I wonder why the melting of the permafrost is occurring. Could the melting be keeping the earth’s temperature constant?

You raise several issues and I will try to provide adequate but short answers.
Firstly, I strongly commend you to read the entire thread which I linked at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/25/skeptical-science-misrepresents-their-animation-the-escalator/
In that – still ongoing – thread AGW-advocates and climate realists are debating the issues which you raise so you can compare their arguments for yourself.
The temperature rise since 1880 is statistically significant according to the claims of confidence provided by compilers of the data sets. However, those claims are wrong. A group of us attempted to publish a paper on this but it was blocked by nefarious method. The entire issue is explained in my submission to the UK Parliamentary Inquiry (i.e. whitewash) into climategate. Appendix B of that Submission is a draft of the paper and the Submission can be read at
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo/climatedata/uc0102.htm
The permafrost has been melting because the Earth warmed over the last century. Indeed, this melting is some of the evidence that the Earth has warmed.
Think of it this way.
A person who climbs a hill remains at his greatest elevation when walking across the plateau at its top. Similarly, the global temperature rise before 2000 has stopped but global temperature is still high so the hottest recorded years are recent.
Higher temperatures means less permafrost and melting takes time.
However, as you say, the melting of permafrost could be inhibiting temperature rise (just as melting Arctic ice inhibits Arctic summer temperature rise). If so, then this melting would be a negative feedback which acts to inhibit ‘runaway’ global warming; n.b. not a positive feedback.
In this context, I notice that at November 28, 2012 at 2:33 am you say to Kevin

I must admit I do dismiss arguments that the earth’s climate has gone through changes in the past because when the conditions existed, modern humans weren’t around so it is immaterial if the climate was hostile to humans. I am concerned about the liveability of the earth now and in the next 50 years.
I accept you premise that there are huge sinks of carbon etc, my concern is with the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. It is growing steadily and the rate will increase with the positive feedback mechanism of the permafrost melting.

It seems that you need some context of how global temperature has varied both during the time of human existence, so I suggest that you click on this link
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Images/ice-HS/noaa_gisp2_icecore_anim_adj.gif
The effect of atmospheric CO2 is so trivial that it cannot rise global temperature above the level it had only 2,500 years ago in the Minoan Warm Period and, therefore, your fears oabout effects of rising CO2 are unfounded.
Of course, I know that telling somebody “Don’t worry” doesn’t help, but I am not doing that: I am asking you to look at the evidence because that may allay your fears.
Richard

November 28, 2012 5:26 am

Walter,
Good article but you have fallen into the trap of stating the mean earth surface temperature to be 0.7degC per hundred years when it is plainly 0.4degC per hundred years. 
The Hadley Centre are not known for their climate skepticism (witness Climategate) so take a look at their data:
http://www.thetruthaboutclimatechange.org/tempsworld.html
This graph shows a regression line of 0.41degC per century.
All climate alarmism results from cherry picking start and end dates and then using the raw temperature samples for those two dates. 
It is pure pseudo-science.

David A. Evans
November 28, 2012 5:45 am

George Lawson says:
November 28, 2012 at 2:44 am

“These are all time record floods for the last hundred years!”

Perhaps if they dredged the rivers as they used to and maybe stop building on flood plains, these things wouldn’t be so bad. Did anyone ever tell them, the clue’s in the name, FLOOD PLAIN!
DaveE.

John Marshall
November 28, 2012 6:08 am

Spot on! Excellent post, many thanks.
This is what some of us have been saying for years. About time it was aired on a website that is science based.

Kev-in-Uk
November 28, 2012 6:14 am

LetsBeReasonable says:
November 28, 2012 at 2:33 am
I accept very little produced by the UN or its supposed review body the IPCC !! You should check out who is producing this kind of stuff before ‘accepting’ it yourself! The IPCC and all its machinations have been well shown to be far from balanced in its pesentation and review of the ‘science’ – check out Donna Laframboise’ presentation on WUWT-TV when it is linked up!
As Richard says; it is not for the skeptics to decide what is worrisome and what is not – that’s likely a personal matter for each individual to assess! Suffice to say, that as a qualified geologist and engineer, I do not buy into the science as currently presented – it is deliberately vague and untestable.
Whilst we always welcome genuine questioning – we see too many folk simply re-iterating the warmist/alarmist type mantra, without actually being in full understanding of the basics, and it does become tedious when folk will not read stuff for themselves! I myself did not ‘disbelieve’ until I looked into it all myself a few years ago and there is no one more skeptical than me at the moment!
regards
Kev

John Wright
November 28, 2012 6:15 am

Sfo,
Funny you should mention Burt Rutan, because Walter Starck strikes me as being a rather similar character: http://www.coralrealm.com/gd/walterstarck.html
Wonder if they know each other.

Venter
November 28, 2012 6:18 am

Permafrost melted in 1944 also. These things happen naturally and get blown up out of proportion always
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/1944-shock-news-permafrost-melting-as-far-as-the-eye-can-see/

Jason
November 28, 2012 6:22 am

Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! Enthalpy! It is not enough to measure temperature, pressure must be measured as well. That’s the only way we can truly know if greenhouse gases are trapping more heat on the planet or if volume or moisture are causing temperature variation within a constant equilibrium (net 0)

John Wright
November 28, 2012 6:42 am

David Socrates says:
November 28, 2012 at 5:26 am
“Walter,
Good article but you have fallen into the trap of stating the mean earth surface temperature to be 0.7degC per hundred years when it is plainly 0.4degC per hundred years.”
Look again at the opening paragraph. You seem to have forgotten the word “purported”. So whether that purported temperature is 0.7°C or 0.4°C is surely irrelevant to the debate.

Roger Knights
November 28, 2012 7:14 am

LetsBeReasonable says:
November 28, 2012 at 12:08 am
Thanks Mario and Darren, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. From what you both say, my interpretation appears to agree with your explanation. It would appear that the temperature is increasing, despite the negative feedback from water vapour via cloud formation as the permafrost is melting where previously it was frozen. This melting will cause more CO2 and methane to be released into the atmosphere causing a positive feedback. This is a worrying development. Any thoughts on this issue? I would like to hear your thoughts.

One reason for not being worried is that it was as warm in the NH for far longer than recently during the MWP but no runaway heating occurred then. Here’s a link to a chart from the NSF on NH temperatures from 200 AD to the present:
http://www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/media/images/monsoon1_h.jpg
See: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/25/remember-the-panic-over-methane-seeping-out-of-the-arctic-seabed-in-2009-never-mind/ , which contained these quotes:

thepompousgit says:
December 30, 2011 at 1:50 pm

Logan in AZ said December 30, 2011 at 1:30 pm
“The feedback factors treated on WUWT are physical mechanisms. The dimethylsulfide feedback from the oceans is a major factor that is ignored by those who only study or think about physics.”

But of course the biological effects must be left out, or else there’s nothing to be alarmed about. I was amused when someone decided to test the release of clathrates from permafrost idea in situ. The plant growth shaded the ground enabling the permafrost and clathrates to persist under warmer conditions. And contra R Gates’ claim that paleoclimatology validates the models, we know that temperatures in the high latitudes supported trees where now there is tundra only three thousand years ago. Temperatures supposedly high enough to release the methane from the permafrost.
……………..
Bruce Cobb says:
December 15, 2011 at 4:31 am
Methane Madness? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/methane-discovery-stokes-new-global-warming-fears-shock-as-retreat-of-arctic-releases-greenhouse-gas-6276278.html

Or not: http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/methane-time-bomb-in-arctic-seas-apocalypse-not/

Abstract of the AGU paper: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011JC007218.shtml
………………..
Dave Wendt says:
November 30, 2011 at 7:43 pm
GettingWarm says:
November 30, 2011 at 4:32 pm
When I first viewed that video I assumed you were being sarcastic in recommending it, but after viewing some of your other contributions, it appears you were serious. I have a few problems with Ms Walters exposition. Most notably she spends most of it blathering on about melting permafrost killing off the trees around her, but anyone with even a rudimentary familiarity with Arctic environs would know that the very presence of those trees is strong proof that you are not in a permafrost area. Trees don’t survive in permafrost and so the only way that permafrost could be killing the trees is if it was advancing into an area which had been seasonally frozen, the only type of landscape where boreal forests can survive.
Also like most of those who prattle on about the coming methane cascade she seems to be under the illusion that permafrost means ground that remains permanently frozen year round. In a sense this is correct, but in almost all permafrost areas the actual permafrost layer lies beneath what is known as the active layer which thaws annually. There doesn’t seem to be a real “consensus” on the range of depths of this active layer, but in my explorations on the topic I’ve come across estimates of a minimum of 2 ft ( which seem to be fairly consistent) to maximums everywhere from 7 ft to 20 ft. What this means is that when you hear discussions of melting permafrost what is actually being talked about is ground somewhere between 2 and 6 meters below the surface which for a brief part of the summer season is going from being a degree or two below freezing to a degree or two above, hardly enough of a change to generate a wholesale methane cascade. The ground above the permafrost layer has already experienced innumerable annual thaw cycles and has thus had many opportunities to release whatever gas is there. Warming may accelerate the rate of release, but unless the warming of the atmosphere is well beyond anything that has been speculated about, its affect on the climate will be mostly immeasurable.
Molecularly methane may be many times more potent than other gases, but its concentration in the atmosphere is a thousand times less than even CO2 and what evidence that exists on the question suggests its present contribution to the GHE is almost negligible.

Here are quotes from other threads:

richard verney says:
October 31, 2010 at 8:02 am
The arctic has been warmer in the past (and with correspondingly less ice) and hence if runaway methane release was going to happen, it already would have occurred. When one examines the evidence on a geological time scale, it is apparent that there is no problem here.
………………
Charles Higley says:
May 4, 2011 at 8:36 pm
““But it is also possible that the vegetation which will be able to grow when the ground thaws will absorb the carbon dioxide. We still know very little about this.” says Margareta J
Not so fast. We already know that when the permafrost thaws, the life there wakes up and becomes a very good carbon sink. So, they can stop pretending that we still have to find out and worry about “what if” it is not a sink. Rumors of huge methane releases are unfounded speculation.
………………….
Crispin in Waterloo says:
May 4, 2011 at 6:15 pm
There is nothing fundamentally different between permafrost and peat. Does peat spontaneously evaporate into CH4? All of it?
What exactly is the basis of the claim that melting permafrost emits masses of methane? For sure, some of it will turn into CO2, some to CH4, and quite a bit into organic carbon in the soil and the rest into new growth.
A consistent theme in the alarmist claims about melting permafrost (melting is not a rare event – the ‘line’ moves north and south all the time) is that it is akin to a balloon of methane about to pop when its ice cork melts. Nonsense. What is abundantly clear from areas that have recently melted, like the MacKenzie River valley at Inuvik, is that trees grow rapidly and in abundance as soon as the ground is warm enough to let their roots penetrate. You can hardly walk between the trees at Arctic Red. This is goint to happen even before the deeper layers melt.
The statement that there is twice as much carbon in the permafrost as there is in the atmosphere a) indicates how little there is in the atmosphere, and b) raises the question as to where the carbon came from to build up the permafrost biomass. The atmosphere, right? Did the loss of all that carbon-dioxide from the air initiate or exacerbate an ice age? Probably not, because the presence or absence of CO2 simply does not have as much influence on the global temperature as several other factors.

November 28, 2012 7:53 am

Average temperaturee of the earth…sounds like a computation with a lot of numbers.

Grumpy
November 28, 2012 7:58 am

George Lawson says:
November 28, 2012 at 2:44 am
Here in the United Kingdom we are experiencing severe nationwide flooding which naturally is commanding a large proportion of TV news bulletins. Not once have I heard anyone talk about the excessive rain being caused by Global Warming or Climate Change. Most unusual for the BBC who are normally very quick to attribute unusual weather patterns to Climate Change. Perhaps the stinging criticism of biased reporting that they have suffered in recent months is having an effect after all. I did hear one reporter get close to it when he said “These are all time record floods for the last hundred years!”
You must have been listening at a different time than me. I have been hearing engineers on the BBC chattering on about climate change and the need to spend more money (now, there’s a surprise) on sea and flood defences, and how these floods are going to become more frequent, more rain, warmer wetter winters, heavier rainfall, all attributable to climate change, blah, blah, blah. I turned the radio off in disgust, but I suppose it is one way for engineers to try to get more work when the construction industry is fairly moribund.

Werner Brozek
November 28, 2012 9:19 am

LetsBeReasonable says:
November 27, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Thanks Richard for your input, I found it interesting. I am wondering if the slight cooling since 1997 may lie with in the margin of error?
To add to what Richard has already said, I would like to make the following comments. Ross McKitrick said that you cannot find the significance on non warming. You can only find the significance of warming. So if it is stated that the world warmed 0.12/decade over 15 years, you can calculate that this warming may NOT be significant at the 95% level, however it could be significant at the 90% level. But if the warming is 0.0000 over 16 years, what does that really mean? To me it means that there is a 50% chance that it cooled and a 50% that it warmed. It seems irrelevant whether the error bars in the warming or cooling was 0.0001 or 0.1 or 1.0 or 2.0 C/century. But we can be 100% sure the temperatures were NOT 100% flat over the 16 years, even though our slope could in theory be flat.
Also, Santer said that if the slope is flat for 17 years, that is very significant, whatever that means. We are rapidly closing in on that.