SOON AND BRIGGS: Global-warming fanatics take note – Sunspots do impact climate

From the The Washington Times – By Willie Soon and William M. Briggs

Scientists have been studying solar influences on the climate for more than 5,000 years.

Chinese imperial astronomers kept detailed sunspot records. They noticed that more sunspots meant warmer weather. In 1801, the celebrated astronomer William Herschel (discoverer of the planet Uranus) observed that when there were fewer spots, the price of wheat soared. He surmised that less light and heat from the sun resulted in reduced harvests.

Earlier last month, professor Richard Muller of the University of California-Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (BEST) project announced that in the project’s newly constructed global land temperature record, “no component that matches solar activity” was related to temperature. Instead, Mr. Muller said carbon dioxide controlled temperature.

Could it really be true that solar radiation — which supplies Earth with the energy that drives our climate and which, when it has varied, has caused the climate to shift over the ages — is no longer the principal influence on climate change?

Consider the accompanying chart. It shows some rather surprising relationships between solar radiation and daytime high temperatures taken directly from Berkeley’s BEST project. The remarkable nature of these series is that these tight relationships can be shown to hold from areas as large as the United States.

This new sun-climate relationship picture may be telling us that the way our sun cools and warms the Earth is largely through the penetration of incoming solar radiation in regions with cloudless skies. Recent work by National Center for Atmospheric Research senior scientists Harry van Loon and Gerald Meehl place strong emphasis on this physical point and argue that the use of daytime high temperatures is the most appropriate test of the solar-radiation-surface-temperature connection hypothesis. All previous sun-climate studies have included the complicated nighttime temperature records while the sun is not shining.

Read more: SOON AND BRIGGS: Global-warming fanatics take note – Washington Times

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September 11, 2012 9:51 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
September 11, 2012 at 7:43 pm
I’ll be watching for signs of honesty.
At no point I did state that ozone values varied by 100% or 30% etc. But I am very glad you now recognize the significant variance in the ozone column experienced since the decline of SC23. Haig goes on to say.
Daily measurements of the solar spectrum between 0.2 mm
and 2.4 mm, made by the Spectral Irradiance Monitor (SIM) instru-ment on the Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment (SORCE) satellite since April 2004, have revealed that over this declining
phase of the solar cycle there was a four to six times larger decline in
ultraviolet than would have been predicted on the basis of our
previous understanding. This reduction was partially compensated
in the total solar output by an increase in radiation at visible wave-lengths. Here we show that these spectral changes appear to have
led to a significant decline from 2004 to 2007 in stratospheric
ozone below an altitude of 45 km, with an increase above this
altitude.

I have no wish to engage in meaningless discussion with you. My comments were directed at Henry.

September 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Geoff Sharp says:
September 11, 2012 at 9:51 pm
At no point I did state that ozone values varied by 100% or 30% etc.
No, you did worse than that. You quoted these large percentage changes with the apparent purpose to create the illusion that there were large resulting variations in ozone.
But I am very glad you now recognize the significant variance in the ozone column experienced since the decline of SC23.
Again you choose ambiguous phrasing, suggesting something I never maintained. The truth is that Harder et al. (2009) suggested that the magnitude of the solar cycle variation in the ultraviolet (UV), from 200 to 400 nm [note MUV and not FUV], is several times larger than previously thought. Further, that the SORCE variation in the visible and near-infrared (NIR) is out of phase with the UV and total solar irradiance (TSI), i.e., that the visible and NIR flux actually increased approaching the last solar minimum. Lean and DeLand (2012) argue that the unexpected solar cycle variations inferred from the SORCE SIM instrument are the result of undetected instrument sensitivity drifts and therefore caution against using the SIM-derived 11-yr solar cycle variation until further validation and uncertainty estimation are available. In any event, the changes in the ozone column is stil only of the order of a few percent, and the inferred changes in temperature of the order of 0.05 degrees.
I have no wish to engage in meaningless discussion with you.
Yet you come back for more punishment, again and again, continuing this meaningless discussion across threads, without learning anything.

September 11, 2012 10:57 pm

Just The Facts says:
September 11, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Does this make reasonable sense? If so, then why the apparent attributions to anthropogenic influences (climate change and CFCs) when natural dynamical effects of polar vorticity might offer a suitable explanation for the atmospheric dynamics and existence of the ozone hole?
The whole issue is too complex to deal with in a comment, but from past discussions with Signe my understanding is that both natural dynamics and anthropogenic influence play a role. The situation is like with climate change: each camp claims that their mechanism is the only [or at least dominant] cause, and the discussion quickly degrades into polarized name-calling. The timing of the beginning of the long, slow recovery suggests to me that the ban on some man-made halocarbon refrigerants has been working.

September 12, 2012 12:09 am

Henry@Geoff, just the facts, stefan
Thanks so much for your contributions here, I do appreciate. I do find my bending point of 1995 when we know warming stopped and cooling started in the two waves (blue and purple) shown by you, Geoff. Apparently we are all agreed on that – except Leif, apparently – I fear we cannot help him right with that. I think he does not even believe yet it has started cooling.( I am holiday here on the north coast in South Africa and I would say it is at least 10 degrees colder here as last year. The water is a lot colder too.)
As to the length of the cycle, I think we are a bit out but I think Scafetta is looking at average temps. (of the seas?) which is like energy out and may differ from the energy-in. So it seems to me now that it is entirely possible that my curve of the acceleration/deceleration of maxima follows on its own path, on an apparent 88 year cycle, ca. 44 years of warming followed by ca. 44 years of cooling.
But the ozone connection seems strong, seeing that it follows my maxima cycle. My data are from a station in the Swiss alps and they have records from the 19twenties. There is a lot of variation in that data but you would expect this from just one random place on earth. Yet the bending points of 1951 and 1996 are unmistakenly recognisable.
Many people (including Leif, apparently) still seem to think that what is “absorbed” is not lost to space but transferred to heat.
I did explain the principle of re-radiation here.
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2011/08/11/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011/
Because there is almost no mass in the upper atmospheres it seems likely to me that it acts and reacts on variations in high energy coming from the sun subsequently causing more or less back radiation. At this moment that seems to be the most likely explanation for what I observed.

John Finn
September 12, 2012 4:10 am

HenryP says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:09 am
Henry@Geoff, just the facts, stefan
Thanks so much for your contributions here, I do appreciate. I do find my bending point of 1995 when we know warming stopped and cooling started in the two waves (blue and purple) shown by you, Geoff. Apparently we are all agreed on that – except Leif, apparently – I fear we cannot help him right with that. I think he does not even believe yet it has started cooling.

That’s because it hasn’t. UAH satellites provide even spaced, widespread sampling of temperatures across the globe. The results show no cooling.
( I am holiday here on the north coast in South Africa and I would say it is at least 10 degrees colder here as last year. The water is a lot colder too.)
I’m beginning to see why South Africa provides such a massively disproportionate number of stations in your ‘sample’. You clever, little ‘scientist’, you!

September 12, 2012 7:23 am

John Finn says
That’s because it hasn’t. UAH satellites provide even spaced, widespread sampling of temperatures across the globe. The results show no cooling.
( I am holiday here on the north coast in South Africa and I would say it is at least 10 degrees colder here as last year. The water is a lot colder too.)
I’m beginning to see why South Africa provides such a massively disproportionate number of stations in your ‘sample’. You clever, little ‘scientist’, you!
Henry
You are funny. But I wonder if you understand why I said that longitude in my sample does not matter? I wonder also if you understand why I think that adding another 40 stations is not going to change much to my reported result on the deceleration of maxima?
In my dataset we can see that all three: means, maxima and minima turned negative from warming to cooling somewhere between 12 and 20 years ago. On means, we dropped about 0.2 degrees C globally, since 2000, according to my dataset.
Hadcrut3 now reports a drop of ca. 0.1 degree C since 2000.
I have questioned the UAH results (on a previous thread about UAH results) basiccally because they show no correlation whatsoever. On short term, like month to month, I dont expect that but over a longer term you are supposed to see some kind of pattern emerging, with a correlation coefficient at least higher than 0.5
I think that they understood my questions about their calibration (especially their reference zero point) and later came back admitting that it could be reading too high.
I hope they will come with a correction soon.
Why do I trust my own dataset better than any other? In my dataset I used a different method, assessing the average change from the average measured over a certain period of time which is a lot less dependant on calibration. And I would never report a graph as being correct unless I found rsquare is at least 0.995.(I believe in getting a 100% score)

Darren Potter
September 12, 2012 8:39 am

stefanthedenier: “Darren, localized temperatures change every 10 minutes – but the GLOBAL temp overall is always the same!”
stefanthedenier, first off, I don’t believe in AGW. But Global temperatures have and do change.
There is ample scientific evidence to show that Earth’s temperatures have varied (as in Ice Age) over Earth’s history. That includes variations in recent history. My own analysis of the biased GHCN weather station temperature held by NOAA shows Global temperatures do vary. At the same time, that data fails to show AGW as claimed by alarmists.
AGW is Fraud.

September 12, 2012 10:26 am

HenryP says:
September 10, 2012 at 11:53 am
Mind you, note that ozone absorbs (and subsequently re-radiates/ back radiates) in the region of 0.2 to 0.8 um. This is why I was saying that it is possible that an interaction on the top of the atmosphere involving a small amount of energy causing a reaction (e.g. formation of ozone from oxygen) can ultimately lead to the loss of a lot more energy (more light 0.2 -0.8 being back radiated)

As you have been told before this is impossible! When an O3 molecule absorbs a photon of UV light (peak absorption at 0.25μm) it photodissociates i.e. it falls apart into an O2 molecule and an oxygen atom, there is no O3 molecule to re-radiate!

September 12, 2012 12:33 pm

Henry.
Hi Phil. ! Where did you come from? It seems to me you were ordered here? Last time we discussed things we agreed to disagree as it appeared not possible for you to agree with me
on what I wrote here,
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2011/08/11/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011/
which, according to me, is entirely true.
If you want to start discussing this again, you are so welcome, but shall we do that on my own blog?

September 12, 2012 1:20 pm

Leif says:
The timing of the beginning of the long, slow recovery (of ozone levels) suggests to me that the ban on some man-made halocarbon refrigerants has been working.
Henry says
You are suggesting that finding that maxima started increasing around 1950 with ozone going down from that time and that finding (now) that maxima are decreasing from 1995 with ozone increasing from that time is pure co-incidence.
Such incidents where we know that they could be related (seeing that ozone back radiates 25% of all that is being back radiated) are rare. It is the same with the CO2. We know that there are giga tons of bi-carbonate in the oceans. So the chemical reaction:
heat+ HCO3- => H2O + CO2 is what caused most of the increase CO2 since 1951.
The records from Hawaii only started around the 19fifties. More heat drove up CO2. Heat is leading the CO2.
Always think about cause and effect, first, before making conclusions.I very much doubt now if the CFC’s had anything to do with the ozone levels.

September 12, 2012 2:02 pm

HenryP says:
September 12, 2012 at 1:20 pm
You are suggesting that finding that maxima started increasing around 1950 with ozone going down from that time and that finding (now) that maxima are decreasing from 1995 with ozone increasing from that time is pure co-incidence.
It is simpler than that, there was no maximum in 1995, the Earth has not cooled since 1995 [on the contrary, it has been warmer since 1995 than before 1995]. Here is what signe has to say about ozone recovery: http://www.leif.org/EOS/Nature/nature04746-Ozone-Recovery-Signe.pdf
I guess you ignored her paper the first time around [and may again].

September 12, 2012 3:01 pm

HenryP says:
September 12, 2012 at 1:20 pm
caused most of the increase CO2 since 1951. The records from Hawaii only started around the 19fifties.
Just when the Earth started to cool as per the Figure heading this post.

September 12, 2012 4:53 pm

HenryP says:September 12, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Mate, you are using all the Warmist theology – then inserting your hypothesis. 1] CO2 absorbs sunlight and after 8AM is lifted up, same as fog. 2] intercepting part of the sunlight high up = less comes to the ground. 3] high up cooling is much more efficient. 4] heat is NOT re-radiated down at all – because from up there to the ground is kilometers of oxygen& nitrogen as perfect insulators. 5] CO2 can absorb more heat than O&N – BUT, CO2 absorbs much more coldness at night also – those two factors cancel each other!!! Unless you believe in ”flat earth” sunshine 24h on every spot on the planet. Everything they use is made for deceiving and confusion – you are falling for their trick. Go to my blog and read every page – everything is original, everything can be proven, replicate in controlled environment. Read all 11 pages; don’t let them deceive you. Many in the blogosphere are paid to promote the misleading data and their mythology – they are not interested in the truth – if the truth is known, they will not be paid taxpayer’s money. be fair to yourself, because I can see that you are barking up their wrong tree. They are arguing with you, because unintentionally you are promoting what suits them: http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/climate/ Cheers!

D Boehm
September 12, 2012 5:13 pm

stefanthedenier,
Nothing ‘absorbs coldness’.

September 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Darren Potter says:September 12, 2012 at 8:39 am said: ”There is ample scientific evidence to show that Earth’s temperatures have varied (as in Ice Age) over Earth’s history”
Darren, what you know I now also; but what I know, you don’t know – therefore i have unfair advantage on you… ”Ice Age” was on the northern hemisphere at that time – S/H was hotter than now. The laws of physics don’t permit warmer, or colder the WHOLE PLANET.
1] when the WHOLE troposphere warms up – O&N expand instantly upwards -> release extra heat and swap for extra coldness and equalize in a jiffy.
2] when the WHOLE troposphere get colder -> shrink for few minutes / release less heat and. equalizes in a jiffy.
3] the only way part of the planet can get warmer for prolong period is: if other part / parts get colder – to accommodate the extra volume of air from the part that is gone warmer. Do you believe in the laws of physics, or in the shonks / ”scientists” that for 150years have being accumulating crap; without being scrutinized. People like you are giving oxygen to the Warmist – otherwise, by now the leading Warmist would have being in jail. If you have stomach for real proofs, facts and formulas – proven beyond any reasonable doubt – go to my blog and read all 11 pages. Too complicated to explain in a comment.

September 12, 2012 5:32 pm

D Boehm says: ”stefanthedenier, Nothing ‘absorbs coldness’.’
Mate, I have being through that few times – people on the street are interested in simple talk. They don’t say oxygen two, nitrogen two – they don’t use Calvin – they go close to the fen, to get colder.
People that are obsessed in manipulation; use empty talk. Simplify, cut the rot, cut the rot – on the end it depends if the 99% of the people on the street know the truth. People that occasionally visit websites. Thew ”regular bingo players” are into ideology, not in reality. If you learn what I have, it will be new for you… I know about the ultimate zero, as much as you; nothing new

D Boehm
September 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Nothing personal, but words matter, especially in science.
It’s absolute zero, not ultimate zero. Kelvin, not Calvin, etc.

September 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Leif Svalgaard says: ”The records from Hawaii only started around the 19fifties. Just when the Earth started to cool as per the Figure heading this post”
Leif , the earth didn’t started to cool – they were misleading that was cooling; because originally their lies were that: CO2 intercepts the sunlight high up ”DIMMING EFFECT” where cooling is much more efficient =will cool the planet as ”nuclear winter for year 2000” Because they were correct that CO2 intercepts sunlight – but didn’t take into account the second factor, that: CO2 slows down cooling (at night) (second factor is used now, to con about ”greenhouse effect)
Then they disregarded the second factor – now they / you are disregarding the first factor. THOSE TWO FACTORS CANCEL EACH OTHER!!! You don’t have a case.

September 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Phil. says: ”As you have been told before this is impossible! When an O3 molecule absorbs a photon of UV light (peak absorption at 0.25μm) it photodissociates i.e. it falls apart into an O2 molecule and an oxygen atom, there is no O3 molecule to re-radiate!”
Phil, ozone doesn’t ”absorb” sunlight – ozone is opaque, same as oxygen. 2] ozone (O3) is not a molecule, but an isotope.
As oxygen (O2) by convection is cooling the planet. When turned into ozone -makes larger volume than independent oxygen atoms -> goes above the troposphere, into the stratosphere and just spins there; without any contribution. They were misleading about ozone, for good reason.
hypothetical: even if the ”ozone hole” was ”letting” extra radiation on Antarctic – don’t you think that for the local inhabitants would have being better on the coldest place on the planet? Because of the curvature of the planet; sunlight is dispersed on much larger area – those critters need some warmth
Contemporary, ozone is used only when the Warmist run out of lies; or occasionally when proven on some subject wrong – to change the subject and avoid ridicule. Ozone has NOTHING to do with the global temperature – oxygen & nitrogen are regulating the global temp; by expanding / shrinking in change of temperature
.

D Boehm
September 12, 2012 6:19 pm

Ozone is a molecule. Its constituent atoms may be different atomic weights, but it is a molecule, not an isotope.
Ozone, def: a colorless unstable toxic gas with a pungent odor and powerful oxidizing properties, formed from oxygen by electrical discharges or ultraviolet light. It differs from normal oxygen (O 2) in having three atoms in its molecule (O 3).

September 12, 2012 10:23 pm

Henry@Leif
Noticing your last comments here directed at me,-or not- I considered that you might suffer from schizophrenia. Pity. Multiple characters I am afraid. I hope you have a good psychiatrist. In the olden days we would call that disease: posessed by demons (devils). Going to church and learning about Jesus might also help. He can cast out any demon.

September 13, 2012 1:08 am

Just The Facts says:
September 12, 2012 at 9:17 pm
No significant conclusions, just a bunch of data and various reasons for healthy skepticism.
Science is always imbued with healthy skepticism. The trick is to avoid being paralyzed by said skepticism.

September 13, 2012 1:55 am

HenryP says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Multiple characters I am afraid
The character dealing with you is one of the kind ones, always helpful and willing to educate.

Darren Potter
September 13, 2012 7:29 am

stefanthedenier: “… therefore i have unfair advantage on you …” “‘Ice Age’ was on the northern hemisphere at that time – S/H was hotter than now.”
No advantage. Start checking what you think you know. The Ice Age was a global event, recent work has reaffirmed that. Granted, S/H was warmer than N/H, but both where colder during the Ice Age.
stefanthedenier: “The laws of physics don’t permit warmer, or colder the WHOLE PLANET.”
Which laws of physics say a “WHOLE PLANET” can not be warmer or colder?
(Neptune vs. Earth vs. Mercury beg to differ)
Perhaps ya forgot /sarc? If so, I’ll play along for benefit of Lewandowsky.
We got all our recent technical advancements from reverse engineering a crashed craft, found near Roswell. Oh, and the future Janeway wants here shuttle back…