UPDATE: Via Business Insider, my posit that this was a typo is confirmed. See below.
At first I didn’t believe this, but there it is on the Federal bids page, screencap and link below. See the screencaps for an explantion. – Anthony
Via Drudge and Infowars:
National Weather Service Follows DHS In Huge Ammo Purchase
Hollow point bullets designed to cause maximum organ damage
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Why would the National Weather Service need to purchase large quantities of powerful ammo? That’s the question many are asking after the federal agency followed in the footsteps of the Department of Homeland Security in putting out a solicitation for 46,000 rounds of hollow point bullets.
A solicitation which appears on the FedBizOpps website asks for 16,000 rounds of .40 S&W jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, noted for their strength, to be delivered to locations in Ellsworth, Maine, and New Bedford, Mass.
A further 6,000 rounds of S&W JHP will be sent to Wall, New Jersey, with another 24,000 rounds of the same bullets heading to the weather station in St. Petersburg, Florida.
The solicitation also asks for 500 paper targets to be delivered to the same locations in Maine, Massachusetts and New Jersey.
The National Weather Service is is one of six scientific agencies that make up the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
The solicitation requires a response by August 21.
=================================================================
At first I thought maybe this was for bear/elk protection of technicians when they go to service some of those remote weather stations in the Maine woods. The bid solicitation has the Marine Fisheries Service listed as the buyer. NOAA does have game wardens for commercial ocean fishing and game fishing, but why would they route it through the National Weather Service, which has no such programs? This is either a typo, or one of those convoluted government tree structures.
===============================================================
UPDATE: Business Insider, who reported on the issue last night, has the story (h/t to WUWT reader Timothy Ray Erney). As I noted above, it was a typo.
We talked to Scott Smullen, the Deputy Director of NOAA Communications & External Affairs who says the announcement is a mistake and is apparently being corrected at the time of this writing.
From Scott’s email:
Due to a clerical error in the federal business vendor process, a solicitation for ammunition and targets for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement mistakenly identified NOAA’s National Weather Service as the requesting office. The error is being fixed and will soon appear correctly in the electronic federal bidding system. The ammunition is standard issue for many law enforcement agencies and it will be used by 63 NOAA enforcement personnel in their firearms qualifications and training.
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This way, they can justify their large budget requests for next fiscal year. If they have budget overruns, then there is concern that asking for a 10% increase is excessive. But, if they spend all of their budget and then some, then asking for an increase next year is just common practice.
Also, do not forget that the Dept of Education recently purchased Assault Shotguns and Body Armor. But then, we do know that the Dept of Education does visit you with a SWAT-like team of happy gun-toters when you appear to be late with your payments.
Anthony, look at the delivery addresses NMFS OLE is National Marine Fisheries Service Office of Law Enforcement. Paranoid much around here?
REPLY: If I was paranoid, I wouldn’t ask questions or show the sources. Nor would I posit it to be a typo. You simply didn’t read. As usual, you just want to paint me in the worst possible light, so you can make ugly comments elsewhere. I read those anonymous derogatory comments of yours Mr. John Sully (used that because he’s voluntarily outed himself here) and quite frankly I think you are the one that needs help. – Anthony
“REPLY: I thought of that ahead of time. If the solicitation was simply NOAA, this would make sense for the argument that NOAA does indeed have some game wardens. But this specifically said NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE. Which has no such mission (at least none I’m aware of). So the question remains. Why NWS? – Anthony”
It may not have the mission, but it may have the funds and it would be easier for them to spend the money and hand over the ammo then get the money reappropriated or transfered.
Of course if NWS has any money it can’t spend maybe it should upgrade some weather stations rather than buying ammo for another division of NOAA that is short on ammo and funds.
They’re to go with those shiny new 100 round mags they just got from the fast & furious guys…
“At first I thought maybe this was for bear/elk protection of technicians ”
According to my Canuck friends, anyone who uses a pistol round on a bear had better file down the foresight and grease the slide….
Probably to beat off attacks by environmentalists after the NWS stops supporting the idea of CAGW….
Though I do have to admit it is a bit odd at least, that of the 4 places ordering the bullets, St Pettersburg (as mentioned above as near the site of the RNC) is the only one not ordering paper targets, but it is getting the most bullets. Hopefully that is just tin foil hat stuff though.
About hollow point ammunition, when I took the concealed carry course in Texas, we were advised to use hollow point ammunition for self-defense. Preferably use the same type that the police carry. Winchester, for example, has “Ranger Law Enforcement Ammunition.” A hollow point is much less likely to pass through a bad guy (or walls) and hurt a good guy. As an added benefit, it does have more stopping power. When a citizen or a police officer is forced to use his weapon, the purpose is to stop a bad guy before he can harm you or someone else.
Probably the other agencies already exceeded their allocation; NWS has no allocation number filled, so they can buy as much as they want.
Are the paper targets weather maps — they’re likely to get the same results with darts which aren’t as noisy.
Okay, I’m only going to say this once: infowars.com is an Alex Jones (pinhead con-spira-torialist extraordinaire) website .. unless you can second-source a story or review the primary ‘evidence’, documents or associated video take ANYTHING appearing over there as suspect …
Alex Jones got his start on on of the free public Austin Cable Access shows where he ranted and raved for his 30 (or 60) minutes each night spinning un-believably tall tales … suggest Google Alex Jones and austin cable access for more; a couple samples follow:
Alex Jones Is About To Explode
http://www.texasmonthly.com/2010-03-01/feature2-2.php
Media Clips – Alex Jones: Con-spir-acy Victim or Evil Mastermind?
http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-14/77932/
REPLY: That’s why I put up the documents – Anthony
There’s nothing strange about jacketed hollow point ammo. It’s perfect against fleshy targets and is less likely to over penetrate (bodies, dry way, etc.) Unless you’re shooting at body armor or through vehicles or stuff, hollow point is valid. Hollow point is considered humane against soft flesh targets. Less wounding – more killing. People are silly when they get “concerned” about one round or another. A gun is simply a tool to bring about death from a distance. Pick the ammo best suited for the job. A hollow point ain’t no different than a FMJ, ’cause both have their valid uses. They were both engineered to kill.
Bill Yarber says:
August 14, 2012 at 9:13 am
Because the terrorists Tea Party Patriots are expected to riot after stealing of the next election. That’s why the military is training riot control units for deployment in the US. And I’m an AGW climate skeptic but not a conspiracy nut.
Bill,
Either use the \sarc tag or be prepared to substantiate your irrational comment. I’ve been to several different Taxed Enough Already (TEA) rallies and meetings. I have seen no tendencies to violence, prejudice, or even impoliteness from TEA members. NONE. This includes a TEA rally on the WA state capitol steps, with more than 3,500 WA residents from all races and walks of life being confronted by swearing, insulting, and violence threatening union thugs that had been bussed in. All of the TEA attendees remained civil and temperate, despite the gutter low affronts, intimidation, and attacks from the opposition.
Fiscal Discipline.
Constitutionally Limited Government.
Free Markets.
That’s not the ideology of a ‘terrorist’, now is it?
They summarize the core values of the patriots that made the United States of America a truly great nation. Those are the core values of the TEA Party Patriots today.
MtK
Consistent with the Dept. of Education’s purchase of shotguns and assault weapons for SWAT teams.
They would be better advised to invest in white flags.
Resistance is futile.
The National Weather Service listed as the requesting agency was nothing more than a clerical error. The ammo and targets are for the National Marine Fisheries Service, Office of Law Enforcement, Northeast Division.
Business Insider has an article that explains the request and clerical error.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-why-the-noaa-supposedly-ordered-46000-rounds-of-ammunition-2012-8
The request is for 46,000 rounds of ammunition to be used by 63 enforcement personnel who each require at least 700 rounds a year in order to meet requirements for weapons training and qualification as well as the 200 rounds of ammo they’re required to have in their duty bags. 700 x 63 = 44,100
Yes, ideally one would use the same ammo for target practice as they would carry on duty, especially with semi-auto pistols.
Anthony, I’m disappointed that you’ve been fooled by a ridiculous conspiracy site like Infowars without doing your own research to confirm or deny the allegations. I thought you were better than those Alex Jones conspiratards.
Sincerely,
Tim Erney
[snip – over the top]
Non-story. I am guessing this happens all the time. I suppose that Social Security offices provide ammo for their security staff. I can also imagine that when one budget column gets used up, other columns are used, even crossing into other sub-departments to fund another department’s need. Happens in education all the time. We have several columns for money coming in from a variety of sources. These sources like to know what was spent so we have to keep them separate. However, when the rules allow it, we can use one column to pay for another that has run out of money.
And I second that less than a thousand rounds per week is pretty mild. I keep varmit populations in check at the family ranch. And I shoot at paper and metal targets for fun. This year I hope to bag my first deer, elk, and bear. Heck, my habit of using a goodly amount of ammo is even recorded on the web in the range report of the last .22 shoot I attended. I was using my Marlin rifle at 500 yds. It took a few rounds to make the metal ring that far away. And I managed to do it a satisfactory number of times. However, I need to mention that a young boy got it on his first shot.
More details and debunking at the following link:
http://metabunk.org/threads/704-Debunked-National-Weather-Service-(NOAA)-ordering-ammo
I think this is easily explained by a screw-up on the FBO page. There is no “Western Acquisition Division” within the National Weather Service, but there is one within NOAA. That office appear to handle contracting for multiple NOAA agencies, including NWS and NMFS. The ammo is obviously being shipped to various law enforcement offices at NMFS if one reads the entire FBO notice.
Link to contact info for the NOAA acquisition offices, including the now-infamous Western Acquisition Division:
http://www.ago.noaa.gov/ago/contact_us.cfm
I was able to deduce all of this with about five minutes on Google. Too bad Matt Drudge and Alex Jones don’t have similar skills, but that wouldn’t get them any eyeballs and ad clicks.
Regarding JHPs, they’re less likely to ricochet as a solid body off metal surfaces and become a danger to the shooter or those not targeted. That’s generally a benefit to an LEO.
Thousands of rounds is not that much. The media would like you to believe otherwise, but it simply is not. Walmart sells boxes with up to 500 rounds and a single target shooter can easily go through 500 rounds in a few hours.
Ammo is commonly sold in 1000 round cases. Even larger.
Sportmen in the US shoot many billions of rounds in a year.
Consensus or else!! (?)
The reply from NOAA Communications is disinformation. They got caught. You can believe it’s just stupid mistakes by a bureaucrat if you like but expect to be surprised later when you find out the truth.
@exfedagent:
True, when I first heard this story, the numbers did not seem that great. Heck the number of rounds in one purchase looked like my monthly ammo usage.
But perhaps *you* ought to rethink this is a bit. “It’s a great job.” does not give any of us plebes the warm fuzzies about this purchase. You know, this cop loved his job, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlMe-vWC5nk
There was a time when even *FBI* agents were *not armed* in the execution of their duties and had to ask a local officer to arrest someone when it needed to be done.
I suggest that we return to that model. There are at least *90* federal agency that are armed. Including the Department of Education. And people wonder why they hear complaints about the US becoming a police state.
There is far to much power in our federal government that was never intended by the founding generation. Return the power to the states, and we won’t have a problem.
This may be routine for you, but NWS apparently has gotten away with it in the past without the public noticing. The internet has changed that. Public officials haven’t gotten used to the attention and constantly cry “this is routine!” Well, the gig’s up. We’re onto you, now, and after a few more election cycles, expect to see the dismantling of the federal government institutions you hold so dear, institutions the founding generation would not countenance.
Vince Cefalu comes to mind. He’s brave in the sense that he has exposed corruption in the ATF and been an outspoken critic of Operation Fast and Furious. But in one interview he call the ATF “the Agency I love” that performs an “important and necessary function.” Made me wanna puke. Similar to this. The Lacey act needs to go and the NWS should *not* be armed on the job. Ever.
It certainly is not hard to separate those who know what they are talking about when the subject is firearms and those who don’t in these comments.
My favorite comment however was Bob Tisdale’s. It is scary thinking about what could happen if the squirrels of the world decided to go after a new source of nuts.