Dr. Paul Bain Responds to Critics of Use of "Denier" Term

UPDATE: Dr. Robert G. Brown of Duke University,  the commenter rgbatduke, made a response that was commented on by several here.  It is eloquent, insightful and worthy of consideration.  See below.

Dr. Paul Bain, the lead and corresponding author of the letter Promoting Pro-Environmental Action In Climate Change Deniers in Nature Climate Change  which was first discussed at WUWT here: Nature’s ugly decision: ‘Deniers’ enters the scientific literature and later here: Lord Leach of Fairford weighs in on Nature’s ‘denier’ gaffe has been busy responding to critics.  Wattsupwiththat asked permission to reprint the e-mail he was sending.  He has asked us, instead, to post the following statement:

 Thank you for your email and the courtesy of requesting permission to post my email to one of your commenters who contacted me by email about the paper. My response is on the record already on Judith Curry’s blog, and the responses to that have pointed to some necessary clarifications (e.g., including the term “anthropogenic” where necessary), and areas where further explanation seems useful. So rather than rehash some of the same debates by posting the original email, I think it would be more productive to post the following which includes clarifications/extensions (many of which I also make in Judith Curry’s blog, but spread across different comments)…

Comments about the use of the “denier” label are a fair criticism. We were focused on the main readership of this journal – climate scientists who read Nature journals, most of whom hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real. It should also be noted that describing skepticism as denial is a term increasingly used in the social science literature on climate change (e.g. in Global Environmental Change, Journal of Environmental Psychology, Routledge Handbook of Climate Change and Society), and is used informally by some within the climate science community. So we were using a term that is known, used, and understood in the target audience, but which we thought  involved a stronger negative stereotype (e.g. being anti-environmental, contrarian) than skeptic. My thought was this would highlight the contrast  with the data, which suggests that you need not believe in AGW to support pro-environmental action, especially when it had certain types of (non-climate) outcomes (demonstrating a non-contrarian position). So in my mind we were ultimately challenging such “denier” stereotypes. But because we were focused on our target audience, it is true that I naively didn’t pay enough attention to the effect the label would have on other audiences, notably skeptics. Although I hope this helps explain our rationale for using the term, I regret the negative effects it has had and I intend to use alternative labels in the future.

Beyond the negative reaction to “denier”, what has been interesting in many skeptics’ responses (in emails and on blogs) is that our research is propaganda designed to change (or “re-educate”) their mind about whether AGW is real, and I’ve received many long emails about the state of climate science and how AGW has been disproven (or the lack of findings to prove it, including Joanne Nova’s email to me which she posted/linked in your blog).  Actually, the paper is not about changing anyone’s mind on whether anthropogenic climate change is real. There are also skeptics insisting that the issue is ONLY about the state of the science – whether AGW is real – but on this point I disagree. I am approaching this as a social/societal problem rather than as an “AGW reality” problem. That is, two sizeable groups have different views on a social issue with major policy implications – how do you find a workable solution that at least partly satisfies the most people?

Some climate scientists who endorse AGW seem to have assumed that the way to promote action is to convince skeptics that in fact AGW is occurring, and this has not been effective. Similarly, I don’t think skeptics will convince those who endorse AGW that they are wrong anytime soon. But the social/policy issue remains whether you believe in AGW or not. So if policies are going to be put in place (as many governments are proposing), what kinds of outcomes would make it at least barely acceptable for the most people? For our skeptic samples, actions that promoted warmth and economic/technological development were the outcomes of taking action that mattered to them (even if they thought taking action would have no effect on the climate). So our studies showed that these dimensions mattered for skeptics to support action taken in the name of addressing anthropogenic climate change. The might also be other positive outcomes of taking action we didn’t study where some common ground might be found, such as reducing pollution or reliance on foreign oil. Overall, the findings suggest that if there was closer attention to the social consequences of policies, rather than continuing with seemingly intractable debates on the reality of AGW, then we might get to a point where there could be agreement on some action – some might think the action is pointless with regard to the climate (but many other people think it will), but if it produces some other good outcomes it might be ok. Hence, if governments were able to design policies that plausibly achieved these “non-climate” goals, then this might achieve an acceptable overall outcome that satisfies the most people (although admittedly not everybody will agree).

This is the message of our paper, and I hope readers of your blog will be able to accept my regret about the label and focus on the main message. Some have described this message as naïve, but a real-world example (noted by one of our reviewers) illustrates the general point: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/science/earth/19fossil.html?pagewanted=all

Kind regards

Paul.

For those interested in getting up to speed, the HTML page for the article is here and the .pdf version with the cited works page, can be downloaded from the options box to the right of the article. The discussion at Judith Curry’s blog is here and Dr. Bain is commenting under the screen name “Paul”.  He is more likely to respond to comments there than here.

UPDATE: 

Dr. Robert G. Brown of Duke University,  the commenter rgbatduke, made a response that was commented on by several here.  It is eloquent, insightful and worthy of consideration. Dr Bain and Dr. Brown are approaching this from different perspectives.

It is pointless to point this out as I doubt Paul will read it (but I’ll do it anyway).

The tragic thing about the thoughtless use of a stereotype is that it reveals that you really think of people in terms of its projected meaning. In particular, even in your response you seem to equate the term “skeptic” with “denier of AGW”.

This is silly. On WUWT most of the skeptics do not “deny” AGW, certainly not the scientists or professional weather people (I myself am a physicist) and honestly, most of the non-scientist skeptics have learned better than that. What they challenge is the catastrophic label and the alleged magnitude of the projected warming on a doubling of CO_2. They challenge this on rather solid empirical grounds and with physical arguments and data analysis that is every bit as scientifically valid as that used to support larger estimates, often obtaining numbers that are in better agreement with observation. For this honest doubt and skepticism that the highly complex global climate models are correct you have the temerity to socially stigmatize them in a scientific journal with a catch-all term that implies that they are as morally reprehensible as those that “deny” that the Nazi Holocaust of genocide against the Jews?

For shame.

Seriously, for shame. You should openly apologize for the use of the term, in Nature, and explain why it was wrong. But you won’t, will you… although I will try to explain why you should.

By your use of this term, you directly imply that I am a “denier”, as I am highly skeptical of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming (not just “anthropogenic global warming”, which is plausible if not measurable, although there are honest grounds to doubt even this associated with the details of the Carbon Cycle that remain unresolved by model or experiment). Since I am a theoretical physicist, I find this enormously offensive. I might as well label you an idiot for using it, when you’ve never met me, have no idea of my competence or the strength of my arguments for or against any aspect of climate dynamics (because on this list I argue both points of view as the science demands and am just as vigorous in smacking down bullshit physics used to challenge some aspect of CAGW as I am to question the physics or statistical analysis or modelling used to “prove” it). But honestly, you probably aren’t an idiot (are you?) and no useful purpose is served by ad hominem or emotionally loaded human descriptors in a rational discussion of an objective scientific question, is there.

Please understand that by creating a catch-all label like this, you quite literally are moving the entire discussion outside of the realm of science, where evidence and arguments are considered and weighed independent of the humans that advance them, where our desire to see one or another result proven are (or should be) irrelevant, where people weigh the difficulty of the problem being addressed as an important contributor (in a Bayesian sense) to how much we should believe any answer proposed — so far, into the realm where people do not think at all! They simply use a dismissive label such as “denier” and hence avoid any direct confrontation with the issues being challenged.

The issue of difficulty is key. Let me tell you in a few short words why I am a skeptic. First of all, if one examines the complete geological record of global temperature variation on planet Earth (as best as we can reconstruct it) not just over the last 200 years but over the last 25 million years, over the last billion years — one learns that there is absolutely nothing remarkable about today’s temperatures! Seriously. Not one human being on the planet would look at that complete record — or even the complete record of temperatures during the Holocene, or the Pliestocene — and stab down their finger at the present and go “Oh no!”. Quite the contrary. It isn’t the warmest. It isn’t close to the warmest. It isn’t the warmest in the last 2 or 3 thousand years. It isn’t warming the fastest. It isn’t doing anything that can be resolved from the natural statistical variation of the data. Indeed, now that Mann’s utterly fallacious hockey stick reconstruction has been re-reconstructed with the LIA and MWP restored, it isn’t even remarkable in the last thousand years!

Furthermore, examination of this record over the last 5 million years reveals a sobering fact. We are in an ice age, where the Earth spends 80 to 90% of its geological time in the grip of vast ice sheets that cover the polar latitudes well down into what is currently the temperate zone. We are at the (probable) end of the Holocene, the interglacial in which humans emerged all the way from tribal hunter-gatherers to modern civilization. The Earth’s climate is manifestly, empirically bistable, with a warm phase and cold phase, and the cold phase is both more likely and more stable. As a physicist who has extensively studied bistable open systems, this empirical result clearly visible in the data has profound implications. The fact that the LIA was the coldest point in the entire Holocene (which has been systematically cooling from the Holocene Optimum on) is also worrisome. Decades are irrelevant on the scale of these changes. Centuries are barely relevant. We are nowhere near the warmest, but the coldest century in the last 10,000 years ended a mere 300 years ago, and corresponded almost perfectly with the Maunder minimum in solar activity.

There is absolutely no evidence in this historical record of a third stable warm phase that might be associated with a “tipping point” and hence “catastrophe” (in the specific mathematical sense of catastrophe, a first order phase transition to a new stable phase). It has been far warmer in the past without tipping into this phase. If anything, we are geologically approaching the point where the Earth is likely to tip the other way, into the phase that we know is there — the cold phase. A cold phase transition, which the historical record indicates can occur quite rapidly with large secular temperature changes on a decadal time scale, would truly be a catastrophe. Even if “catastrophic” AGW is correct and we do warm another 3 C over the next century, if it stabilized the Earth in warm phase and prevented or delayed the Earth’s transition into cold phase it would be worth it because the cold phase transition would kill billions of people, quite rapidly, as crops failed throughout the temperate breadbasket of the world.

Now let us try to analyze the modern era bearing in mind the evidence of an utterly unremarkable present. To begin with, we need a model that predicts the swings of glaciation and interglacials. Lacking this, we cannot predict the temperature that we should have outside for any given baseline concentration of CO_2, nor can we resolve variations in this baseline due to things other than CO_2 from that due to CO_2. We don’t have any such thing. We don’t have anything close to this. We cannot predict, or explain after the fact, the huge (by comparison with the present) secular variations in temperature observed over the last 20,000 years, let alone the last 5 million or 25 million or billion. We do not understand the forces that set the baseline “thermostat” for the Earth before any modulation due to anthropogenic CO_2, and hence we have no idea if those forces are naturally warming or cooling the Earth as a trend that has to be accounted for before assigning the “anthropogenic” component of any warming.

This is a hard problem. Not settled science, not well understood, not understood. There are theories and models (and as a theorist, I just love to tell stories) but there aren’t any particularly successful theories or models and there is a lot of competition between the stories (none of which agree with or predict the empirical data particularly well, at best agreeing with some gross features but not others). One part of the difficulty is that the Earth is a highly multivariate and chaotic driven/open system with complex nonlinear coupling between all of its many drivers, and with anything but a regular surface. If one tried to actually write “the” partial differential equation for the global climate system, it would be a set of coupled Navier-Stokes equations with unbelievably nasty nonlinear coupling terms — if one can actually include the physics of the water and carbon cycles in the N-S equations at all. It is, quite literally, the most difficult problem in mathematical physics we have ever attempted to solve or understand! Global Climate Models are children’s toys in comparison to the actual underlying complexity, especially when (as noted) the major drivers setting the baseline behavior are not well understood or quantitatively available.

The truth of this is revealed in the lack of skill in the GCMs. They utterly failed to predict the last 13 or 14 years of flat to descending global temperatures, for example, although naturally one can go back and tweak parameters and make them fit it now, after the fact. And every year that passes without significant warming should be rigorously lowering the climate sensitivity and projected AGW, making the probability of the “C” increasinginly remote.

These are all (in my opinion) good reasons to be skeptical of the often egregious claims of CAGW. Another reason is the exact opposite of the reason you used “denier” in your article. The actual scientific question has long since been co-opted by the social and political one. The real reason you used the term is revealed even in your response — we all “should” be doing this and that whether or not there is a real risk of “catastrophe”. In particular, we “should” be using less fossil fuel, working to preserve the environment, and so on.

The problem with this “end justifies the means” argument — where the means involved is the abhorrent use of a pejorative descriptor to devalue the arguers of alternative points of view rather than their arguments at the political and social level — is that it is as close to absolute evil in social and public discourse as it is possible to get. I strongly suggest that you read Feynman’s rather famous “Cargo Cult” talk:

http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/cargocul.htm

In particular, I quote:

For example, I was a little surprised when I was talking to a

friend who was going to go on the radio. He does work on cosmology

and astronomy, and he wondered how he would explain what the

applications of this work were. “Well,” I said, “there aren’t any.”

He said, “Yes, but then we won’t get support for more research of

this kind.” I think that’s kind of dishonest. If you’re

representing yourself as a scientist, then you should explain to

the layman what you’re doing–and if they don’t want to support you

under those circumstances, then that’s their decision.

One example of the principle is this: If you’ve made up your mind

to test a theory, or you want to explain some idea, you should

always decide to publish it whichever way it comes out. If we only

publish results of a certain kind, we can make the argument look

good. We must publish both kinds of results.

I say that’s also important in giving certain types of government

advice. Supposing a senator asked you for advice about whether

drilling a hole should be done in his state; and you decide it

would be better in some other state. If you don’t publish such a

result, it seems to me you’re not giving scientific advice. You’re

being used. If your answer happens to come out in the direction the

government or the politicians like, they can use it as an argument

in their favor; if it comes out the other way, they don’t publish

it at all. That’s not giving scientific advice.

Time for a bit of soul-searching, Dr. Bain. Have you come even close to living up to the standards laid out by Richard Feynman? Is this sort of honesty apparent anywhere in the global climate debate? Did the “Hockey Team” embrace this sort of honesty in the infamous Climategate emails? Do the IPCC reports ever seem to present the counter arguments, or do they carefully avoid showing pictures of the 20,000 year thermal record, preferring instead Mann’s hockey stick because it increases the alarmism (and hence political impact of the report)? Does the term “denier” have any place in any scientific paper ever published given Feynman’s rather simple criterion for scientific honesty?

And finally, how dare you presume to make choices for me, for my relatives, for my friends, for all of the people of the world, but concealing information from them so that they make a choice to allocate resources the way you think they should be allocated, just like the dishonest astronomer of his example. Yes, the price of honesty might be that people don’t choose to support your work. Tough. It is their money, and their choice!

Sadly, it is all too likely that this is precisely what is at stake in climate research. If there is no threat of catastrophe — and as I said, prior to the hockey stick nobody had the slightest bit of luck convincing anyone that the sky was falling because global climate today is geologically unremarkable in every single way except that we happen to be living in it instead of analyzing it in a geological record — then there is little incentive to fund the enormous amount of work being done on climate science. There is even less incentive to spend trillions of dollars of other people’s money (and some of our own) to ameliorate a “threat” that might well be pure moonshine, quite possibly ignoring an even greater threat of movement in the exact opposite direction to the one the IPCC anticipates.

Why am I a skeptic? Because I recognize the true degree of our ignorance in addressing this supremely difficult problem, while at the same time as a mere citizen I weigh civilization and its benefits against draconian energy austerity on the basis of no actual evidence that global climate is in any way behaving unusually on a geological time scale.

For shame.

rgb

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eyesonu
June 21, 2012 11:34 am

For any newcomers to this discussion please be advised that “rgbatduke” is Dr Robert G. Brown, PhD, a physicist at Duke University in NC. He calls it like he sees it and is well respected.
If I got any of that wrong please correct me.

eyesonu
June 21, 2012 11:47 am

kim2ooo says:
June 21, 2012 at 11:01 am
Without empirical evidence supporting claims…
Without empirical evidence explaining divergences from the hypothesis…
I think it’s safe to label CAGW’ers – “Climate Psychics”
==================================
A typo perhaps? “Climate Psychos” would be more fitting.
I say that in jest as I am ready to be “converted”. Show me the documented evidence. All of it.

June 21, 2012 11:53 am

Doug Eaton says:
June 20, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Jared wrote: “So I guess if we start calling anthropogenic global warming believers ‘satanic worshipers’ more and more increasingly then it would not be offensive?”
I prefer the term “climate commies.”
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And I call them Climate Jihadis, for they are just as fanatical, unreasoning and dangerous

El Gordo
June 21, 2012 12:35 pm

“There are also skeptics insisting that the issue is ONLY about the state of the science – whether AGW is real – but on this point I disagree. I am approaching this as a social/societal problem rather than as an “AGW reality” problem. That is, two sizeable groups have different views on a social issue with major policy implications – how do you find a workable solution that at least partly satisfies the most people?”
But he has said it!
To him AGW is NOT ABOUT THE STATE OF THE SCIENCE. IT IS ABOUT A SOCIAL SOCIETAL PROBLEM.
To him there are two sizeable groups that have different views on a SOCIAL ISSUE with major policy implications.
Right there he has conceded the point. He believes action is necessary to defeat the theoretical mechanism his ‘sizeable group’ has presented REGARDLESS of whether that mechanism exists or not, REGARDLESS of whether the ‘SOCIAL ISSUE’ has basis in physical reality or not.
This statement is as clear as day. This is a faith-based issue absolutely no different than similar faith-based issues proclaimed by apocalyptic millenialists for centuries. The only seminal difference between his variety and the varieties of the past is his unwillingness to wear the same hair-shirt his ‘sizeable group’ would fit for the rest of us.
AGW’ers are the new flagellants.
But it is not their own backs they hope to flagellate, as shown by their un-repentant and continuing use of the very energy and technology they’d deny to the bulk of humanity.

Athelstan.
June 21, 2012 12:47 pm

Smokey says:
June 20, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Hear, Hear and well said.

kim2ooo
June 21, 2012 1:00 pm

eyesonu says:
June 21, 2012 at 11:47 am
Hmmmm……………..Climate Psychic Psychos???
Snickers

Louis Hooffstetter
June 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Both Bain’s article and his response are unadulterated crap:
“We were focused on the main readership of this journal – climate scientists who read Nature journals, most of whom hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real.”
Many of us here also used to read Nature and Scientific American – until they started publishing papers based on fraudulently manipulated data and irreproducible results. The breaking point for me was when their editorial staffs became cheer leaders for scientists who routinely refused to follow the scientific method.
“Some climate scientists who endorse AGW seem to have assumed that the way to promote action is to convince skeptics that in fact AGW is occurring, and this has not been effective.”
We’re easy to convince. Just use empirical data and show your work.

Sun Spot
June 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Paul Bain is bigot and his reply states clearly that he is OK with his bigotry.

KnR
June 21, 2012 1:14 pm

‘I am approaching this as a social/societal problem ‘ but only in the case of AGW skeptics, believers have no issues at all becasue ?
Well becasue the authors themselves are such believers therefore the problem most be with ‘others ‘ and its such failure to believe that needs to be treated for these ‘others’ own good.
No an usual idea , you can hear it up and down the country being said in church after church on Sunday , but its worth its nothing what so ever in science terms .

more soylent green!
June 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Lesson #1 for Dr. Bain — Calling anybody a derogatory term just pisses them off!

June 21, 2012 1:43 pm

@brokenyogi says: June 21, 2012 at 10:00 a
Indeed. “Denialist” is of the same school as the question – “When did you stop beating your wife”. Denialist means we are guilty. Without trial. It is deeply offensive, but more to the point, the thin egde of a very dangerous wedge, which others here have also pointed out. If you dehumanise your “opponent”, nasty things happen. The term “denialist” is dehumanising. Bain and his nasty mob should reflect on what they have written with a little less glee than is palpable in his o-so-reasonable response. Nothing to see here, move along. I don’t think so, Paul.

June 21, 2012 1:48 pm

says: June 21, 2012 at 11:34 am
For any newcomers to this discussion please be advised that “rgbatduke” is Dr Robert G. Brown, PhD, a physicist at Duke University in NC. He calls it like he sees it and is well respected.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
And this lay person thanks him for his thoughtful and clear contribution. One thing that the transition from believer to denialista has brought me is the opportunity to learn about climate, which is an endlessly fascinating subject. Sadly hijacked by ideologues.

clipe
June 21, 2012 1:51 pm

Denier is so passé. “citizen scientist” is the new slur.
http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-338960

John Whitman
June 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Paul Bain,
If you care about our public’s /culture’s trust in the scientific community involved in climate science, you need to simply apologize for using the  ‘denier’ stereotype in your paper.
Make it simple and short.  And quick, otherwise you are very soon to be consigned to the subjective science dustbins.
John

DHM
June 21, 2012 2:02 pm

“… describing skepticism as denial is a term increasingly used in the social science literature on climate change (e.g. in Global Environmental Change, Journal of Environmental Psychology, Routledge Handbook of Climate Change and Society), and is used informally by some within the climate science community. So we were using a term that is known, used, and understood in the target audience … ”
Translation:” I don’t know anybody who doesn’t think like me, I never read anything written by anybody who doesn’t think me, and I don’t want to know anybody who doesn’t think like me. And anyway, all the other people in my hermetically sealed bubble use the word n______ to refer to black people, so I had no idea it was offensive.”

John Whitman
June 21, 2012 2:20 pm

rgbatduke,
I thought your comment on June 21, 2012 at 8:17 am was notable and enlightening.  Thank you.  
John

June 21, 2012 2:58 pm

I looked up the three publications Bain refers to. Particularly obnoxious is the Routledge Handbook.
I am distressed by these Usurpers of Science. Evidently, not just Climate Science, now it’s Social Science too. First rule in a court of law (archetypal arena of social science) is that you allow adequate space to hear defence speak for itself, and to defend itself against prosecution.
All these “social scientists” are using the suppression tactics of usurpers. Exactly the same as Adam Corner at Bishop Hill, another “social scientist” who feels he can shut his ears when people mention science. Don’t listen to the Defence talking science! It’s too difficult to understand so we have to trust the experts! We know “the science is settled” so we don’t have to listen to those who look like they speak science (even if they are only showing evidence that nothing but problems will be created, if policy is based on bad science, useless technology, and witless economists who trust BS). Attack and mock dissenters. Make it sound legit. Say that the refusal to change opinions on both sides must arise from similar reasons (couldn’t be that official scientists are corrupt and therefore refuse to budge, and climate skeptics know the truth and therefore refuse to budge). Pretend to listen. “State” the deniers’ POV for them. Claim superior status. Elbow them out. Notch up the mocking. Notch up the subtleties of mockery.
Above all, Never Never Allow True Open Debate.

EternalOptimist
June 21, 2012 3:23 pm

I like the idea from the US civil rights era of neutralising the offensiveness by over-use.
Such as
‘Hey Anthony my man, you is one mean denier. You is the baddest-ass denier in da ‘hood. You is such a far-out denier you is egyptian status. in de Nile, you are a Voodoo denier’
mm, maybe not. it doesn’t really work in an English accent:(

June 21, 2012 3:26 pm

rgbatduke says:
June 21, 2012 at 8:17 am

Brilliant, an excellent study. Thank you rgb. Hope this gets raised to its own thread.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What right do “social scientists” have, in terms of their own discipline, to refuse to listen to Counsel For The Defence (us at WUWT)?

Dolphinhead
June 21, 2012 3:27 pm

RGB
a superb post sir. I salute you.

June 21, 2012 3:34 pm

Whenever I was handed a paper to analyze and that paper was structured in an obtuse or otherwise confusing structure, I’d restructure the document as statements. The points made that followed/supported/modified the statement are listed as bullets and words that support or modify the bullets are further indented and so on.
This technique allowed me to focus on the central statement(s), and separate out modifiers and outliers. It also allows me to identify all action words and their explicit or lack of meaning. In my past, I expected projects with performance enhancements and all costs and/or paybacks explicitly defined. nebulous terms would get highlighted so the executives knew exactly what was/wasn’t promised when they met for decisions.
To say that I sort of choked on the pretty prose above wouldn’t be excessive. I had no need to resort to my old tactics since my retirement, till now. I will NOT deconstruct all of Dr. Bain’s epistle above. The first few sentences were far more than I needed to know about Dr. Bain and his views on science and us CAGW doubters. Better phrased as “Nuff said!

“…Comments about the use of the “denier” label are a fair criticism. We were focused on the main readership of this journal – climate scientists who read Nature journals, most of whom hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real…”
Or reconstructured to tease out the meanings, (my comments are in parens)
Comments about the use of the “denier” label are a fair criticism.
We (unknown undefined nebulous entity or entities, roughly equivalent to ‘they’)
Were (passive) focused on the main readership of this journal. (any quantitative verifications?)
climate scientists who read Nature journals,
most of whom hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real. (This sounds like hearsay; any quantitative verifications?)

“…It should also be noted that describing skepticism as denial is a term increasingly used in the social science literature on climate change (e.g. in Global Environmental Change, Journal of Environmental Psychology, Routledge Handbook of Climate Change and Society), and is used informally by some within the climate science community…”
It should also be noted.
that describing skepticism as denial is a term increasingly used in the social science literature on climate change (Against frequent public criticism delineating exactly why the term is opprobrium and offensive)
Global Environmental Change,
Journal of Environmental Psychology,
Routledge Handbook of Climate Change and Society
and is used informally by some within the climate science community. (“…by some…” you mean this is your justification that a few insult and injure many?)
“…So we were using a term that is known, used, and understood in the target audience, but which we thought involved a stronger negative stereotype (e.g. being anti-environmental, contrarian) than skeptic…”
So we were using a term that is known, used, and understood in the target audience, (If you mean “the team” please state that and cease insulting the rest. Posting this in an internationally read journal can only mean you intended the entire audience to read the insult.)
but which we thought involved a stronger negative stereotype
than skeptic
being anti-environmental,
contrarian).
(So denier is meant to be in the most offensive terms, like calling them luddites?)
“…My thought was this would highlight the contrast with the data, which suggests that you need not believe in AGW to support pro-environmental action, especially when it had certain types of (non-climate) outcomes (demonstrating a non-contrarian position)…”
My thought was this (I do not understand what thought you are referring to)would highlight the contrast with the data, (Again, a very unclear statement. Contrast to what data and why; do you intend contrasting an insulting term with what data? Personally, I perceive this use of denier concept as tending towards oxymoronic. What am I to expect as the takeaway message in your letter for us questioning scientists reading WUWT?)
which suggests that you need not believe in AGW
to support pro-environmental action,
especially when it had certain types of (non-climate) outcomes
(demonstrating a non-contrarian position).
(Are you trying to use phrasing that gets around stating “people who believe in proper science and scientific methods”?)
“…So in my mind we were ultimately challenging such “denier” stereotypes. But because we were focused on our target audience, it is true that I naively didn’t pay enough attention to the effect the label would have on other audiences, notably skeptics…”

So in my mind we were ultimately challenging such “denier” stereotypes. (The words are all vague and include power words of one stripe or another. Rather than clearing the air, they add to the confusion. What exactly do you mean; where do you make a definitive statement that the term ‘denier’ is inappropriate?)
But because we were focused on our target audience,
it is true that I naively didn’t pay enough attention to the effect the label would have on other audiences, notably skeptics. (What about the effect on victims of the holocaust?
Isn’t this the ‘private club’ metaphor, similar to ‘We’re all adults here” or “We are all men here”? Ugly rhetoric is ugly rhetoric even if you thought you were cozying up to insiders in a closed world.
This thought, approach, publishing and afterwards is indefensible. Apologies are required. That entire group of ‘insiders’ you were trying to cozy up to should be exposed for what they are.
The deniers you are skating and dancing around are NOT those of us who are asking for background information, data, meta-data, code, calculations, results so that independent research can replicate findings. So far, there are no independent verifications or replications of the major climate science results/findings performed by those ‘few’ in-members of climate science. There are even fewer definitive findings about impacts to the earth based on the un-replicated research. Those who deserve the opprobrium ‘denier’ are those who fail to conduct or insist on honest science processes.
So in my mind we were ultimately challenging such “denier” stereotypes.
But because we were focused on our target audience, it is true that I naively didn’t pay enough attention to the effect the label would have on other audiences, notably skeptics.
(Isn’t this the ‘private club’ metaphor, similar to ‘We’re all adults here” or “We are all men here”? Ugly rhetoric is ugly rhetoric even if you thought you were cozying up to insiders in a closed world.
This thought, approach, publishing and afterwards is indefensible. That entire group of ‘insiders’ you were trying to cozy up to should be exposed for what they are.)

jaschrumpf
June 21, 2012 3:34 pm

Similarly, I don’t think skeptics will convince those who endorse AGW that they are wrong anytime soon.

The skeptics don’t have to. The data should do that for you, ultimately.
As long as you don’t deny it.

timg56
June 21, 2012 3:39 pm

Should I ever get the urge to again take a course in physics (unlikely), I believe my choice of instructor would be Robert Brown. Though I am a Maryland grad, reading his comments has me yelling Go Dukies!

Legatus
June 21, 2012 3:55 pm

We were focused on the main readership of this journal – climate scientists who read Nature journals, most of whom hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real.
Aaaaaand why do they believe that? Well, because anyone who does not is fired and then blackballed, because anyone who does not is silenced so that no one ever hears that they exist (never published in these selfsame magazines, all editors who do being forced to resign), and because outright lies are printed to say that they all believe it whether they do or not. Why, because there is tons of grant money involved, as well as government bureaucrats leaning on them to certify it as true because for them there is huge tons of money involved, essentially, control of all the money everywhere by controlling literally all human activity.
Lets rephrase that, “climate propagandists who are required if they wish to hold their jobs to say that they hold the view that anthropogenic climate change is real, all contrary views having been forced out”. That phrase is the truth, the above quote is a bald faced lie (I do not use the term “disingenuous”, since it means “bald faced lie”, and is merely a cowardly cover up for that phrase that you really mean, a lie about a lie). This bald faced lie is printed as only the second sentence of this article, good start.
Although I hope this helps explain our rationale for using the term, I regret the negative effects it has had and I intend to use alternative labels in the future.
“Alternative labels” for the same thing, in other words, we will continue to call you deniers, we will just disguise the term, re-brand it.
There are also skeptics insisting that the issue is ONLY about the state of the science – whether AGW is real – but on this point I disagree. I am approaching this as a social/societal problem rather than as an “AGW reality” problem. That is, two sizeable groups have different views on a social issue with major policy implications – how do you find a workable solution that at least partly satisfies the most people?
Sooo the actual science, whether it is actually true or not, is not the issue, only selling the concept to the most people is what matters. “AGW reality” is not the problem, so, deny reality, focus elsewhere. How do we find a workable solution to a non problem, non reality, a fantasy, that is the problem. How do we sell them this very profitable lie? How do we commit “grand theft by means of deception” and get away with it?
Whether two plus two is actually four is not the issue here, only selling the concept that it is something other than four, the “social/societal issue”, is being talked about here. In short, he says here “reality is not the issue”. Move this to the fiction isle.
Some climate scientists who endorse AGW seem to have assumed that the way to promote action is to convince skeptics that in fact AGW is occurring, and this has not been effective.
The issue is not if it is fact, but whether it is “effective”. In other words, he is plainly stating that reality is not the issue, only coming up with cleverer. more carefully disguised lies. The word “effective” is the key word here, and tells it all.
So if policies are going to be put in place (as many governments are proposing), what kinds of outcomes would make it at least barely acceptable for the most people?
Policies to do what, exactly, and why? If AGW is not reality, why put ANY policies in place at all? Should we try to make it “at least barely acceptable for the most people” if, in fact, the entire idea is nothing but a bald faced lie which will grievously harm the people if they do accept it (crash the worlds economy)?
This is the message of our paper, and I hope readers of your blog will be able to accept my regret about the label and focus on the main message.
In other words, I regret that I got caught saying what I really mean, I intend in the future to more carefully disguise it.
“The main message” which is, we don’t care if AGW is “fact” or fiction, the focus of my paper is, how do we sell this more “effectively”, how do we disguise it as something else so that we can slip it past most people without them spotting it”?
“The main message” which is, do not focus on whether AGW is reality or not, only how to “effectively” sell it.
The main message, truth is irrelevant, what we want is more effective lies.
This “apology” does him no credit, quite the opposite. He moves from the merely possible inadvertent insulter to a deliberate and self admitted liar, one who has stated he does not care for the truth at all (quote “whether AGW is real – but on this point I disagree”).

Adrian O
June 21, 2012 4:14 pm

Bain is trying to take another (mean) shot at the public opinion.
While people are still relatively uninformed – by no fault of their own – about how badly they have been cheated.
As they find out, day by day, Dr. Bain and the Journal of Climate Change and most importantly the obscene funding which kept such corrupt caricatures of science afloat,
Let’s say in the next year or so,
Will be history.