Monckton's Schenectady showdown

Monckton vanquishes Union College “Greens too yellow to admit they’re really Reds”

Guest post by Justin Pulliam

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Attendees listen to Monckton's speech at Union College. Photo by Charlotte Lehman

THE NEWS that Lord Monckton was to give his “Climate of Freedom” lecture at Union College in Schenectady, New York, had thrown the university’s environmentalists into a turmoil. The campus environmentalists set up a Facebook page announcing a counter-meeting of their own immediately following Monckton’s lecture. There is no debate about global warming, they announced. There is a consensus. The science is settled. Their meeting would be addressed by professors and PhDs, the “true” scientists, no less. Sparks, it seemed, were gonna fly.

Traveling with Lord Monckton on the East Coast leg of his current whistle-stop tour of the US and Canada, I was looking forward to documenting the Schenectady showdown. I have had the pleasure of listening to His Lordship at previous campus events. He is at his best when confronted by a hostile audience. The angrier and more indignant they are, the more he seems to like it.

The Union Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) sponsored the lecture, which was video streamed by CampusReform.org (where a video recording is available). The afternoon of the event, Lord Monckton appeared on the CFACT leaders’ hour-long weekly show on the Union College radio station. As a result, that evening 200 people packed a campus lecture theater to hear Lord Monckton speak.

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Erin Delman, President of the Environmental Club, debates with Monckton - photo by Charlotte Lehman

As they filed in, Lord Monckton was chatting contentedly to a quaveringly bossy woman with messy blonde hair who was head of the college environmental faction. Her group had set up a table at the door of the auditorium, covered in slogans scribbled on messy bits of recycled burger boxes held together with duct tape (Re-Use Cardboard Now And Save The Planet). “There’s a CONSENSUS!” she shrieked.

“That, Madame, is intellectual baby-talk,” replied Lord Monckton. Had she not heard of Aristotle’s codification of the commonest logical fallacies in human discourse, including that which the medieval schoolmen would later describe as the argumentum ad populum, the headcount fallacy?  From her reddening face and baffled expression, it was possible to deduce that she had not. Nor had she heard of the argumentum ad verecundiam, the fallacy of appealing to the reputation of those in authority.

Lord Monckton was shown a graph demonstrating a superficially close correlation between CO2 concentration and temperature over the past 150,000 years. Mildly, he asked, “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Was it CO2 concentration that changed first, or temperature that changed first, driving the changes in CO2 concentration?”

The student clutching the graph mumbled that it was impossible to tell, and nobody really knew.

At Lord Monckton’s elbow, an elderly lady – presumably on faculty at Union College – said, “Perhaps I can help. It was temperature that changed first.”

“Exactly,” said Lord Monckton.

“However,” she continued, “CO2 then acted as a feedback, amplifying the temperature change. That’s one way we know CO2 is a problem today. And what,” she said, turning noticeably acerbic in a twinkling of Lord Monckton’s eye, “caused the changes in temperature?”

“Well,” said Lord Monckton, “we don’t know for certain, but one plausible explanation …”

“… is the Milankovich cycles!” burst in the venerable PhD, anxious not to have her punch-line stolen.

“Yes,” Monckton agreed imperturbably, “the precession of the equinoxes, and variations in the eccentricity of the Earth’s orbit and in the obliquity of its axis with respect to the plane of the ecliptic. Actually, it is arguable that the cycles were first posited by an autodidact university janitor, a Mr. Croll.” The yakking crowd of environmentalists grew more thoughtful. Their propaganda had made him out to be an ignorant nincompoop, and they had begun to realize they had made the mistake of believing it.

Lord Monckton moved into the auditorium and began with his now-famous, exuberantly verbose parody of how the IPCC might describe a spade. This elegantly hilarious gem, delivered from memory, is rumored to be longer than the Gettysburg Address. Then he said that, unlike the IPCC, he was going to speak in plain English. Yet he proposed to begin, in silence, by displaying some slides demonstrating the unhappy consequences of several instances of consensus in the 20th century.

The Versailles consensus of 1918 imposed reparations on the defeated Germany, so that the conference that ended the First World War (15 million dead) sowed the seeds of the Second. The eugenics consensus of the 1920s that led directly to the dismal rail-yards of Oswiecim and Treblinka (6 million dead). The appeasement consensus of the 1930s that provoked Hitler to start World War II (60 million dead). The Lysenko consensus of the 1940s that wrecked 20 successive harvests in the then Soviet Union (20 million dead). The ban-DDT consensus of the 1960s that led to a fatal resurgence of malaria worldwide (40 million children dead and counting, 1.25 million of them last year alone).

You could have heard a pin drop. For the first time, the largely hostile audience (for most of those who attended were environmentalists) realized that the mere fact of a consensus does not in any way inform us of whether the assertion about which there is said to be a consensus is true.

Lord Monckton then startled his audience by saying it was settled science that there is a greenhouse effect, that CO2 adds to it, that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere, that we are largely to blame, and that some warming can be expected to result. But these facts had been established by easily-replicable and frequently-replicated measurements first performed by John Tyndall in 1859 at the Royal Institution in London, “just down the road from m’ club, don’t y’ know” (laughter). Therefore, these conclusions did not need to be sanctified by consensus.

The audience were startled again when Lord Monckton showed a slide indicating that the rate of warming since 1950 was equivalent to little more than 1 Celsius degree per century, while the rate of warming the IPCC predicts for the 21st century is three times greater. His slide described this difference as the “IPCC credibility gap”.

Next, Lord Monckton baffled his audience, including the professors and PhDs (whose faces were a picture) by displaying a series of equations and graphs demonstrating that, while it was generally accepted that a doubling of CO2 concentration would cause 1 C° of warming in the absence of temperature feedbacks, the real scientific dispute between the skeptics and the believers was that the believers thought that feedbacks triggered by the original warming would triple it to 3.3 C°, while the skeptics thought the warming would stay at around 1 C°.

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A student asks Monckton a question during the Q&A period- photo by Charlotte Lehman

He moved on to show that the principal conclusions of each of the four IPCC “gospels” were questionable at best and downright fraudulent at worst. The 2007 gospel had concluded that the rate of warming was itself accelerating and that we were to blame, but this conclusion had been reached by a bogus statistical technique. By applying the same technique to a sine-wave (which the audience had agreed exhibits a zero trend), it is possible to show either a rapidly-accelerating uptrend or a rapidly-plummeting downtrend, depending on the choice of endpoints for the trend-lines on the data.

The 2001 IPCC gospel had abolished the medieval warm period by another piece of dubious statistical prestidigitation that was now under investigation by the Attorney-General of Virginia under the Fraud against Taxpayers Act 2000 (gasps of gaping astonishment from some of the environmentalists, who seemed not to have been told this before).

The 1995 gospel had been rewritten by just one man, to replace the scientists’ five-times-expressed conclusion that no human influence on global climate was discernible with a single statement flatly (and incorrectly) to the contrary.

The 1990 gospel had claimed to be able to predict temperature changes for 100 years into the future. Yet an entire generation had passed since then, and the warming over that generation had turned out to be below the lowest estimate in the IPCC’s 1990 gospel and well below its central estimate.  For eight years, sea level has been rising at a rate equivalent to just 1.3 inches per century. Worldwide hurricane activity is almost at its least in the 30-year satellite record. Global sea-ice extent has scarcely declined in that time. Here, the message was blunt: “It. Isn’t. Happening.”

Next, Lord Monckton turned to climate economics and demonstrated that the cost of acting to prevent global warming is many times greater than the cost of inaction. The example of Australia’s carbon dioxide tax showed why this was so. Australia accounts for only 1.2% of global CO2 emissions, and the government’s policy was to reduce this percentage by 5% over the ten-year life of the tax. On the generous assumption that the entire reduction would be achieved from year 1 onward, the fraction of global emissions abated would be just 0.06%. Because this fraction was so small, the projected CO2 concentration of 412 ppmv that would otherwise obtain in the atmosphere by 2020 would fall to 411.987 ppmv. Because this reduction in CO2 concentration was so small, the warming abated over the 10-year period of the tax would be just 0.000085 C°, at a discounted cost of $130 billion over the ten-year term.

Therefore, the cost of abating all of the 0.15 C° of warming that the IPCC predicted would occur between 2011 and 2020 by using measures as cost-effective as Australia’s carbon dioxide tax would be $309 trillion, 57.4% of global GDP to 2020, or $44,000 per head of the world’s population. On this basis, the cost of abating 1 C° of global warming would be $1.5 quadrillion. That, said Lord Monckton, is not cheap. In fact, it is 110 times more costly than doing nothing and paying the eventual cost of any damage that might arise from warmer weather this century.

Australia’s carbon dioxide tax is typical of the climate-mitigation measures now being proposed or implemented. All such measures are extravagantly cost-ineffective. No policy to abate global warming by controlling CO2 emissions would prove cost-effective solely on grounds of the welfare benefit from climate mitigation. CO2 mitigation strategies inexpensive enough to be affordable would be ineffective; strategies costly enough to be effective would be unaffordable. Focused adaptation to any adverse consequences of such future global warming as might arise would be many times more cost-effective than doing anything now. “If the cost of the premium exceeds the cost of the risk, don’t insure,” Monckton advised.

In any event, said Lord Monckton, the West is no longer the problem. Its emissions have been rising very slowly, but emissions in the emerging economies are rising many times faster. China, in particular, was opening one or two new coal-fired power stations every week. She was right to do so. The most efficient way to stabilize a growing population was to raise its standard of living above the poverty line, and the cheapest way to do that was to give the population electricity generated by burning fossil fuels.

Lord Monckton ended, devastatingly, by showing that a sufferer from trichiasis, a consequence of trachoma that causes the eyelashes to grow inward, causing piercingly acute pain followed eventually by blindness, can be cured at a cost of just $8. He showed a picture of a lady from Africa, smiling with delight now that she could see again. He said that the diversion of resources away from those who most urgently and immediately needed our help, in the name of addressing a non-problem that could not in any event be cost-effectively dealt with by CO2 mitigation, must be reversed at once for the sake of those who needed our help now.

Both in the Q&A session that followed Monckton’s address and in the counter-meeting held by the environmentalists (in which Lord Monckton sat in the front row taking notes), the questions flew thick and fast. Why, said a professor of environmental sciences in a rambling question apparently designed to prevent anyone else from getting a question in, had Lord Monckton not cited peer-reviewed sources?  He had cited several, but he apologized that the IPCC – which he had cited frequently – was not a peer-reviewed source: indeed, fully one-third of the references its 2007 gospel had cited had not been peer-reviewed.

Why had Lord Monckton said that from 1695-1735 the temperature in central England had risen by 2.2 degrees (implying 0.55 degrees of warming per decade) when he had gone on to say that the warming rate per decade was 0.4 degrees?  He explained that the warming rate was correctly calculated on the basis of the least-squares linear-regression trend, giving 0.39 degrees, which he had rounded for convenience.

Did Lord Monckton not accept that we could quantify the CO2 feedback?  This point came from the professor. “Well,” replied Lord Monckton in one of his most crushing responses, “perhaps the professor can quantify it, but the IPCC can’t: its 2007 gospel gives an exceptionally wide range of answers, from 25 to 225 parts per million by volume per Kelvin – in short, they don’t know.”

Why had Lord Monckton said that we could learn about temperatures in the medieval warm period from the foraminifera on the ocean floor, when the resolution was surely too poor?  Read Pudsey (2006), said Lord Monckton: the paper showed that the Larsen B ice-shelf, which had disintegrated a few years ago and provided a poster-child for global warming in Al Gore’s movie, had not been present during the medieval warm period, indicating that those who said the warm period applied only to the North Atlantic might not be right. He added that Dr. Craig Idso maintains a database of peer-reviewed papers by more than 1000 scientists from more than 400 institutions in more than 40 countries establishing that the medieval warm period was real, was global, and was at least as warm as the present and was probably warmer.

What about the methane from cattle?  Should we give up eating meat to Save The Planet?  The professor thought so. Lord Monckton, as always, had the data to hand. In the past decade, he said, methane concentration had risen by just 20 parts per billion, which might cause 1/350 C° of warming. This was too little to matter. Leave the cows alone.

What about peak fossil fuels?  Should we not start cutting back now?  No, said Lord Monckton. The recent discovery of vast and now-recoverable reserves of shale gas meant that we had several hundred years’ supply of fossil fuel. The professor agreed that shale gas had a contribution to make: it produced more energy per ton of CO2 emitted than oil or coal.

Why had Lord Monckton cherry-picked the Australian carbon dioxide tax as his economic example?  He said that in a short lecture he could only take one example, so he had taken the Australian case because all other mitigation policies were quite similar to it. It was between 10 and 100 times more costly to try to make global warming go away today than to let the warming occur – even if the warming were at the rate predicted by the IPCC, and even if the cost of inaction was as high as the Stern Report had imagined – and to concentrate on focused adaptation when and where and only if and only to the extent that might be necessary.

Was not dendrochronology now so sophisticated that we could distinguish between the broadening of annual tree-rings caused by warmer weather and the broadening caused either by wetter weather or by more CO2 in the air?  The Professor said this was now indeed possible. Lord Monckton replied that it was not possible. From 1960 onwards, the tree-ring series, even after all the complex adjustments made by the dendrochronastrologists, had showed global temperatures plummeting, while the thermometers had showed them soaring. That was why the Climategate emailers had spent so much time discussing how to “hide the decline” in the tree-ring predictions of temperature change from 1960 onward. This precipitate “decline” cast precisely the doubt upon the reliability of tree-ring temperature reconstructions that the IPCC had originally had in mind when it recommended against the use of tree-rings for reconstructing pre-instrumental temperatures. The professor had no answer to that.

The professor said he was emotional about the damage caused by global warming because in Peru and Ecuador he had seen the collapse in the water supply caused by the melting glaciers. Lord Monckton said that in nearly all parts of the world it was not the glaciers but the snow-melt that provided the water supply. Data from the Rutgers University Snow and Ice Lab showed no trend in northern-hemisphere snow cover in 40 years. He added that in the tropical Andes, according to Polissar et al. (2006), the normal state of all but the very highest peaks had been ice-free; therefore, it could not be said for certain that our influence on climate was causing any change that might not have occurred naturally anyway.

Why had Lord Monckton bothered to deal with the science at all, if the economic case against taking any action to address global warming was so overwhelming?  Lord Monckton replied that it was necessary to understand that there was no scientific case for action either, and that it was necessary for policymakers and governments to realize that key elements in the IPCC’s scientific case – such as the supposedly “accelerating” warming that had been arrived at by the bogus statistical technique he had demonstrated with a sine-wave – were downright false.

The professor then asked the students in to raise their hands if they agreed with him that the IPCC’s use of the statistical technique questioned by Lord Monckton was correct. Dutifully, fearfully, about two-thirds of the hands in the room went up. Lord Monckton turned to the professor and told him he should not have done that. He then turned to the students who had raised their hands and asked them how many of them were statisticians. Just one student began to raise his hand and then – apparently realizing that admitting he was a statistician was to admit he had knowingly raised his hand to endorse a manifest statistical falsehood – slowly lowered it again, blushing furiously.

Another student asked, in that shrill tone beloved of environmental extremists everywhere, whether Lord Monckton was a statistician. No, he said, and that was why he had taken care to anonymize the data and send them to a statistician, who had confirmed the obvious: since the same technique, applied to the same data, could produce precisely opposite results depending upon a careful choice of the endpoints for the multiple trend-lines that the IPCC’s bureaucrats had superimposed on the perfectly correct graph of 150 years of temperature changes that the scientists had submitted, the technique must be defective and any results obtained by its use must be meaningless.

Lord Monckton, sternly but sadly, told those who had raised their hands: “You know, from the plain and clear demonstration that I gave during my lecture, that the IPCC’s statistical abuse was just that – an abuse. Yet, perhaps out of misplaced loyalty to your professor, you raised your hands in denial of the truth. Never do that again, even for the sake of appeasing authority. In science, whatever you may personally believe or wish to be so, it is the truth and only the truth that matters.”

That pin, if you had dropped it, could have been heard again. Many young heads were hung in shame. Even their professor looked just a little less arrogant than he had done throughout the proceedings. Quietly they shuffled out into the darkness.

That night, the Gore Effect worked overtime. Temperatures plummeted to 14° F. The following morning, as we drove through the snowy landscape of upstate New York towards the next venue the following morning, I asked Lord Monckton what he had thought of the strange conduct of the professor, particularly when he had abused his authority by asking his students to assent to the correctness of a statistical technique that he and they had known to be plainly false.

Lord Monckton’s reply was moving. Gently, and sadly, he said, “We shall lose the West unless we can restore the use of reason to pre-eminence in our institutions of what was once learning. It was the age of reason that built the West and made it prosperous and free. The age of reason gave you your great Constitution of liberty. It is the power of reason, the second of the three great powers of the soul in Christian theology, that marks our species out from the rest of the visible creation, and makes us closest to the image and likeness of our Creator. I cannot stand by and let the forces of darkness drive us unprotesting into a new Dark Age.”

Justin Pulliam is the Northeast Regional Field Coordinator for CampusReform.org. He graduated Cum Laude with University Honors from Texas A&M University in December 2011, where he led the local Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow Chapter. He can be reached at justinpulliam@gmail.com.

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A Ustream video recording of the event is available here

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March 10, 2012 2:15 pm

Thank you Christopher! (you have done many very good things)
Thank you Justin! (well written)
This a great post, thanks Anthony! (I come to read WUWT and learn)

AnotherPhilC
March 10, 2012 2:18 pm

Will says: March 10, 2012 at 9:28 am
Back-radiation violates the second law of thermodynamics. There is no way round that fact.
That reminds me – I must throw out my microwave oven, since it violates the second law of thermodynamics, it being impossible for microwaves from a cold cavity magnetron to make a hot liquid even hotter. Or something.

John from CA
March 10, 2012 2:22 pm

Bart says:
March 10, 2012 at 1:36 pm
And, if so, is it really scalable when you consider things like transmission losses and effects of aging on the apparatus?
============
Excellent point about transmission but his approach is point of use. Instead of building a grid in the non-legacy world, he’s proposing a solution that’s self sufficient for energy and potable water etc. It also makes sense for the legacy world in relation to conservation of resources and decreased pollution. The grid will be with us for quite some time but those who live in sunny locations, note the reliance on solar, or partially sunny with grid input, would be able to generate and store a fuel source that’s only used when its needed.
Regarding aging of the apparatus. His point is make it cheaply with the idea that its easy to maintain and replace. The fuel cell is the one sticking point to the idea but with has production should come down in price.
Its very cleaver and I like the holistic approach which is largely lacking from current energy solutions. Designing the approach with the end user in mind is also refreshing.

John from CA
March 10, 2012 2:37 pm

Bart says:
March 10, 2012 at 1:36 pm
And, if so, is it really scalable when you consider things like transmission losses and effects of aging on the apparatus?
============
I think I see your point about the 80% claim in a point of use system. Sorry, I was looking at it from the perspective of the waste associated with the current US grid.
From what I’ve read, Fuel cells run on nat gas are about 50% efficient and approach 80% if hot water generation is included using waste heat.

March 10, 2012 2:49 pm

Brian Johnson uk says:
March 10, 2012 at 1:36 am
Where is Lord Monckton’s ‘Proof’ that there is a Creator?
Is that Scientific Faith or Scientific Proof?
___________________________________________________
One can posit that proof lies in his character.

Dave Dardinger
March 10, 2012 3:05 pm

back-radiation is from a colder sky to a warmer surface.
Back-radiation violates the second law of thermodynamics. There is no way round that fact.

You are incorrect. And you (collective VOST [Violation Of Second-law-of Thermo] people) have been told so many times. It’s only because you don’t actually understand thermodynamics that you fail to take correction. You first of all have to recognize that you’re trying to compare apples with oranges and not realizing that radiation is not part of the study of colligitive properties (volume, temperature, pressure for example) which are what is the basic subject matter of thermodynamics. Radiation is emitted by molecules based on their individual (internal + kinetic) energy, not by the temperature of the body or volume of gas that molecule is a part of. (Though, of course there is a statistical relationship between the energy of individual molecules and the temperature.) But if we add a smallish number of IR-active molecules (CO2 in this case), then the amount of IR absorbed from the IR emitted at the surface will increase, and raise the gas temperature a smallish amount. Then the IR released by the IR active gasses (CO2, H2O, CH4, etc.) will increase proportionally to the increase in temperature and by the CO2 in particular in proportion to the amount of CO2 increase. And the half of that increase which heads to the surface will warm the surface a small amount. This is all the basic AGW theory is concerned with and is basically correct. The CAGW theory, adds several points which are incorrect, in particular that the amount of H2O vapor will be increased on net after feedbacks are considered. In fact the net feedback will almost certainly be negative. This is the position of the skeptics I consider reliable. Unfortunately VOST people confuse the issue, and since CAGW advocates like to attack weak points, also thus weaken the entire skeptic position. I’d like to invite a nice polite collegial discussion, but from a practical POV I have to say, “knock it off!”

March 10, 2012 3:27 pm

Here was someone named Marie Bernadette (with 7 others) tweeting the SU talk live.
http://storify.com/MbernadetteE/lord-christopher-monckton-visits-syracuse-universi
(Found via Google “Lord Monckton 2012” Rank 30. WUWT rank 3.)

March 10, 2012 3:30 pm

I love it when people say things like “It’s not heating a warmer object, it’s slowing the cooling”. Have you ever seen a distribution of this “slowing”? What is the average rate of change with and without atmospheric CO2?

Malcolm Miller
March 10, 2012 3:49 pm

“Never do that again.” What a wonderful moment! How right he was. How I would love to hear what that professor said to his students next time they met in class.
I was a great lecture, and outstanding reporting.

1DandyTroll
March 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Isn’t it interesing that a person with such a debated title and knowledge still just speaks for a short 40 minutes to allow for a 20 minute eternity of Q and A…withouth anyone having had their questions pre-screened-by-gore-mannian-standars?
That’s rather amazing these days in the non-climate-debate.
How come the green veggies can’t do the same?

Jim R
March 10, 2012 4:42 pm

I visit WUWT from time to time, sometimes interesting,sometimes not but this love-in is profoundly depressing. Would like to see Monkton in a public debate with someone like Michael Mann rather than a load of students. I’ve seen Monkton’
s exchanges with John Abraham, don’t think he’d step up to the plate and publicly debate a real scientist, live and in public.

March 10, 2012 4:49 pm

Jim R says:
March 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm
“I visit WUWT from time to time, sometimes interesting,sometimes not but this love-in is profoundly depressing. Would like to see Monkton in a public debate with someone like Michael Mann…”
Oh, please, OH PLEASE, make it happen if you possibly can! Mann is far too cowardly to debate Lord Monckton. But if there is any way you could help arrange it [aside from kidnapping Mann at gunpoint and forcing him to debate], please do what you can to arrange it. If you need help, just say the word. I’ll do whatever I can to get the cowardly Michael Mann into a real debate with Lord Monckton.

Myrrh
March 10, 2012 4:52 pm

Gary Hladik says:
March 10, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Will says (March 10, 2012 at 9:28 am): “Back-radiation violates the second law of thermodynamics. There is no way round that fact.”
As this view contradicts the overwhelming scientific “consensus”, on both sides of the CAGW issue, experimental proof would revolutionize science and snag a Nobel Prize, at least. Yet AFAIK, nobody–not Claes Johnson, not Pierre LaTour, not Doug Cotton, not Will–has reported such an experiment, despite the fame, adulation, money, and nubile groupies that would reward publication. So where’s the beef, Will (to coin a phrase)? 🙂
PS Might I suggest actually performing Dr. Roy Spencer’s “Yes, Virginia” thought experiment?

This is really odd, you ask for experimental proof from basic traditional science on this, which is grounded in empirical industrial knowledge, continuous proof in testing, yet you require only a thought experiment for a claim which contradicts the traditional teaching..
..surely you’re the one who should be providing experimental proof?
Seems Latour has managed to get Spencer to re-think his thought experiment..
http://johnosullivan.livejournal.com/43659.html
“Dr. Spencer’s essay “Yes, Virginia, Cooler Objects Can Make Warmer Objects Even Warmer Still” (July 23, 2011), written to support the greenhouse gas effect (GHE) the science behind man-made global warming has sparked increased criticism since publication. Dr. Spencer, without question a leading researcher of great integrity, has since gone on record to concede that he may be wrong and being misled by an ‘assumption bias.’
It was apparent assumptions in Spencer’s “Yes, Virginia” essay that inspired Dr. Latour, who first made a name for himself working on NASA’s Apollo Space program, to publish a counter-argument to Spencer’s essay entitled, “No Virginia, Cooler Objects Cannot Make Warmer Objects Even Warmer Still.” [1.]

“But Dr. Latour goes further in his criticism. Semi-retired after a stellar career, Latour is one of many eminent experts now becoming increasingly outspoken and declaring the GHE as “junk science.” His position was summarized in US Senate Reports. [2.& 3.]
Spencer’s article lends support to the discredited idea that cold CO2 [carbon dioxide] high in the atmosphere back-radiates to Earth’s warmer surface, heating it more and causing it to radiate to the atmosphere and space with higher intensity than it would without cold CO2 back-radiation. To Latour this contradicted all he saw in his branch of applied science, chemical engineering, and needed to be confronted head on. Engineers must ensure their theories are in harmony with the Second Law of thermodynamics: energy only flows from a hot source to a cold sink, not the other way around. If that law is violated, it can lead to the theory creating energy and driving global warming, a violation of the First Law conservation of energy. That would be a perpetual motion machine, impossible to build. It appears Dr Spencer and the UN IPCC succumbed to this fallacy at the start, as depicted in the famous 1997 Kiehl-Trenberth radiation flow diagram.”
..
“Spencer’s “Yes, Virginia” article now appears to be an incongruous and muddled defense of the ailing hypothesis creaking under a weight of consistently conflicting satellite data and ground measurements.”
..
“Always a stickler for thoroughness as a Chemical Process Control Systems Engineer, Latour had long worked at the sharp end of applied science. His special aptitude earned him his place in the Apollo Space program, where life and death decisions meant that when the theory contradicted reality you changed the theory. In 1997 he analysed the atmosphere as a chemical process system and proved any thermostat adjusting fossil fuel combustion was un-measurable, unobservable and uncontrollable; it would never work. Control systems engineers use these mathematical criteria, developed in 1970s, before embarking on building control systems. He finds engineering is denied involvement in UN IPCC, government and college research on AGW. Europe is paying dearly in 2011 for failing to check the engineering validity of CO2 Cap & Trade schemes.”
My bold. Why are the people who do understand the 2nd Law from practical experience denied involvement by the IPCC? Obvious isn’t it? Because as Latour says, it is junk science.
You can continue to defend it, but unless
you prove it empirically then all you’re demanding we accept is a product of someone’s imagination which actually contradicts the 2nd Law in the real world.
Why don’t you take a look around at the industries we have?
Links to both Yes and No Virginia are on that page.
And then, y’all generic warmists not only demand we accept The Greenhouse Effect doesn’t break the 2nd Law, you don’t even have a consistent internally coherent agreement of what The Greenhouse Effect is!
So what is it? Is it Spencers perpetual motion or is it warm insulating blanket?
John West says:
March 10, 2012 at 11:55 am
Will says
“Back-radiation violates the second law of thermodynamics. There is no way round that fact.”
Nope, check out:
http://www.asterism.org/tutorials/tut37%20Radiative%20Cooling.pdf
It’s not heating a warmer object, it’s slowing the cooling.

&
Silver Ralph says:
March 10, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Will says: March 10, 2012 at 9:28 am
Back-radiation violates the second law of thermodynamics. There is no way round that fact.
——————————————————————————————–
And a blanket violates the law of a good night’s sleep … … not.
You can keep your violation, while I will stay to stay toasty and comfortable in this particular consensus….. 😉

———–
What consensus when you don’t even agree on how the effect is achieved?!
That’s just ludicrous. You don’t have any real science!
And as for ‘warm insulating blanket of Carbon Dioxide’ – get real, just what sort of insulating blanket do you think you have keeping you toasty warm when it’s practically 100% hole? There is no insulating blanket, maybe if you’re the size of a microbe near it..
When you’ve worked out just what The Greenhouse Effect is you’re all so busy insisting we should give up rational thought to accept, do let us know.

Reg Nelson
March 10, 2012 5:00 pm

Jim R says:
I visit WUWT from time to time, sometimes interesting,sometimes not but this love-in is profoundly depressing. Would like to see Monkton in a public debate with someone like Michael Mann rather than a load of students.
*****
Hi, Jim, you must have missed this bit:
“Why, said a professor of environmental sciences in a rambling question apparently designed to prevent anyone else from getting a question in, had Lord Monckton not cited peer-reviewed sources? He had cited several, but he apologized that the IPCC – which he had cited frequently – was not a peer-reviewed source: indeed, fully one-third of the references its 2007 gospel had cited had not been peer-reviewed.
Why had Lord Monckton said that from 1695-1735 the temperature in central England had risen by 2.2 degrees (implying 0.55 degrees of warming per decade) when he had gone on to say that the warming rate per decade was 0.4 degrees? He explained that the warming rate was correctly calculated on the basis of the least-squares linear-regression trend, giving 0.39 degrees, which he had rounded for convenience.
Did Lord Monckton not accept that we could quantify the CO2 feedback? This point came from the professor. “Well,” replied Lord Monckton in one of his most crushing responses, “perhaps the professor can quantify it, but the IPCC can’t: its 2007 gospel gives an exceptionally wide range of answers, from 25 to 225 parts per million by volume per Kelvin – in short, they don’t know.
****
Cheer up, Jim, maybe if you read the entire article you wouldn’t be so depressed.

March 10, 2012 5:27 pm

This is an example I would use in the future to demonstrate true genius. You need all the figures prepared, and to know how they all fit into the big picture and affect each other. Professionals can learn a narrow field in great detail but few can make the step to fitting it into the rest. That cannot be taught and as Monckton demonstrates can be done outside anyone’s field if they are able to do it. This lecture has hopefully been filmed, and shown to audiences of activists and students, chained to their seats if necessary and driven there in carts, and we could uproot the monster in weeks.

March 10, 2012 5:30 pm

By the way Jim, Monckton has been challenging Mann to a debate for years. But Mann doesn’t do debates, as the science is already settled. Didn’t you know that?

Jack
March 10, 2012 5:32 pm

It isn’t a good recording. To many problems with the audio.

March 10, 2012 5:57 pm

It occurs to me there is one more miraculous feature of atmospheric CO2 as imagined by purveyors of conventional wisdom: it heats up very quickly, but cools very slowly. I wonder how that works and if there are other examples of this kind of amazing asymmetry in nature.
BTW: I’m still patiently waiting for a link to the easily replicable Tyndall experiment that shows radiation overpowering convection to modulate the atmospheric lapse rate. I haven’t seen anything like this in the collected Tyndall papers.

Gary Hladik
March 10, 2012 6:06 pm

Myrrh says (March 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm): “Seems Latour has managed to get Spencer to re-think his thought experiment..”
Eh? Myrrh, did you even read the references in your own reference? Dr. Spencer retracted nothing, and even added real-world examples of why LaTour is wrong. I respect(ed) O’Sullivan’s reputation, but he blew that one big time.
“This is really odd, you ask for experimental proof from basic traditional science on this…”
Nope. I’m asking for experimental proof of fringe science, which contradicts “basic traditional science” used by both sides of the CAGW issue.
“..surely you’re the one who should be providing experimental proof?”
Why? I have nothing to gain, nothing to prove. If LaTour, however, gets the results he expects from a real-life version of the “Yes Virginia” experiment, he not only gets a Nobel Prize, but he also gets to say, “Bazinga, Spencer!” I’m absolutely baffled that he hasn’t yet done so.
Myrrh, perhaps you could use your influence to persuade LaTour, Johnson, or Cotton to do the definitive experiment that should consign the IPCC to the dustbin of history? For the children? 🙂

commieBob
March 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Jim R says:
March 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm
I … don’t think he’d step up to the plate and publicly debate a real scientist, live and in public.

Actually, he would mop the floor with Mann, Jones, Hansen, Suzuki or any other ‘real’ scientist you would care to name. Debaters don’t have to be on the ‘correct’ side of the argument to win the debate.
I have a standard lecture for my engineering students and it is this: “You will not win an argument with a lawyer. If you are so unfortunate as to end up being cross-examined, you should expect to be shredded, no matter how expert you are.” (the point of the lecture being that you should document your work properly) A couple of years ago I pointed out that I would lose any argument on any technical subject with Sarah Palin, no matter how little she knew about the subject.
Personally, I would love to see a smack down between Monckton and Gore or Suzuki. It would be very entertaining. The trouble is that some people would think they had been enlightened. They would be wrong. A debate is not about ‘truth’ or ‘facts’. A debate is about winning the debate.

CameronH
March 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Brian Johnson at 1.36 am. I wasn’t aware that either Moncktons lecture or this post was about some proof that God exists. Please stick to the topic.

March 10, 2012 6:36 pm

commieBob,
I partially agree. But facts matter very much in scientific debates. Monckton is an expert at using facts to skewer opponents. However, if he didn’t have the facts on his side he would not do nearly as well. He would probably lose as many debates as he won, probably more. If global temperatures were clearly accelerating along with the rise in CO2 that would trump any debating skill.
This recalls the reason that Gavin Schmidt gave for losing his debate with Michael Crichton: Crichton was taller than Schmidt, so the audience voted Crichton the winner. That takes your argument to a ridiculous extreme, I know. But the fact is that alarmist scientists will not debate because they lose all of the debates. Facts enter into that result. After all, these are debates over verifiable scientific facts, not over who is the best American Idol.

March 10, 2012 6:46 pm

I didn’t see Monckton’s security guards. Conservatives like Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, and Glenn Beck need bodyguards when they visit American colleges.

MartinGAtkins
March 10, 2012 7:37 pm

Ken Coffman says:
BTW: I’m still patiently waiting for a link to the easily replicable Tyndall experiment that shows radiation overpowering convection to modulate the atmospheric lapse rate. I haven’t seen anything like this in the collected Tyndall papers.
Who said “radiation overpowers convection”? Where do you get such absurd ideas from? Radiation is the precursor to convection, they happen in tandem. Without radiation there would be no heat in the first place. Where the hell do you think our earths surface and the oceans get the vast majority of their energy from?

Bart
March 10, 2012 7:47 pm

AnotherPhilC says:
March 10, 2012 at 2:18 pm
“… I must throw out my microwave oven, since it violates the second law of thermodynamics, it being impossible for microwaves from a cold cavity magnetron to make a hot liquid even hotter. Or something.”
Heh. I was hopping mad when I realized I had been conned all these years, too. Microwave ovens must work by post-hypnotic suggestion – the food isn’t really hot, you just think it is.
Or, something.
Dave Dardinger says:
March 10, 2012 at 3:05 pm
‘Unfortunately VOST people confuse the issue, and since CAGW advocates like to attack weak points, also thus weaken the entire skeptic position. I’d like to invite a nice polite collegial discussion, but from a practical POV I have to say, “knock it off!”’
AMEN! If people want to troll that kind of stuff, take it to one of the blogs that freely deal in fringe ideas. This is not my blog, and I cannot speak for Anthony, but seeing WUWT do such an amazing job countering the Warmists on the merits, it wrenches my gut every time I see posters trying to turn this site into another ignorable and inconsequential fringe hangout.
Ken Coffman says:
March 10, 2012 at 3:30 pm
“Have you ever seen a distribution of this “slowing”?”
It is not a permanent slowing. It lasts long enough for the surface temperature to rise, which reestablishes the same rate of cooling.
“What is the average rate of change with and without atmospheric CO2?”
Determining that requires a laboratory setup which holds everything else constant. The Earth’s regulatory system is too complicated to isolate that one relationship planetwide. The feedback effects render the question moot. That is the point that true skeptics are arguing. Insisting that basic physics does not work at all is a non-starter, which will hand victory in the debate to the Warmist side by default.

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