Monckton's Schenectady showdown

Monckton vanquishes Union College “Greens too yellow to admit they’re really Reds”

Guest post by Justin Pulliam

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Attendees listen to Monckton's speech at Union College. Photo by Charlotte Lehman

THE NEWS that Lord Monckton was to give his “Climate of Freedom” lecture at Union College in Schenectady, New York, had thrown the university’s environmentalists into a turmoil. The campus environmentalists set up a Facebook page announcing a counter-meeting of their own immediately following Monckton’s lecture. There is no debate about global warming, they announced. There is a consensus. The science is settled. Their meeting would be addressed by professors and PhDs, the “true” scientists, no less. Sparks, it seemed, were gonna fly.

Traveling with Lord Monckton on the East Coast leg of his current whistle-stop tour of the US and Canada, I was looking forward to documenting the Schenectady showdown. I have had the pleasure of listening to His Lordship at previous campus events. He is at his best when confronted by a hostile audience. The angrier and more indignant they are, the more he seems to like it.

The Union Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) sponsored the lecture, which was video streamed by CampusReform.org (where a video recording is available). The afternoon of the event, Lord Monckton appeared on the CFACT leaders’ hour-long weekly show on the Union College radio station. As a result, that evening 200 people packed a campus lecture theater to hear Lord Monckton speak.

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Erin Delman, President of the Environmental Club, debates with Monckton - photo by Charlotte Lehman

As they filed in, Lord Monckton was chatting contentedly to a quaveringly bossy woman with messy blonde hair who was head of the college environmental faction. Her group had set up a table at the door of the auditorium, covered in slogans scribbled on messy bits of recycled burger boxes held together with duct tape (Re-Use Cardboard Now And Save The Planet). “There’s a CONSENSUS!” she shrieked.

“That, Madame, is intellectual baby-talk,” replied Lord Monckton. Had she not heard of Aristotle’s codification of the commonest logical fallacies in human discourse, including that which the medieval schoolmen would later describe as the argumentum ad populum, the headcount fallacy?  From her reddening face and baffled expression, it was possible to deduce that she had not. Nor had she heard of the argumentum ad verecundiam, the fallacy of appealing to the reputation of those in authority.

Lord Monckton was shown a graph demonstrating a superficially close correlation between CO2 concentration and temperature over the past 150,000 years. Mildly, he asked, “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Was it CO2 concentration that changed first, or temperature that changed first, driving the changes in CO2 concentration?”

The student clutching the graph mumbled that it was impossible to tell, and nobody really knew.

At Lord Monckton’s elbow, an elderly lady – presumably on faculty at Union College – said, “Perhaps I can help. It was temperature that changed first.”

“Exactly,” said Lord Monckton.

“However,” she continued, “CO2 then acted as a feedback, amplifying the temperature change. That’s one way we know CO2 is a problem today. And what,” she said, turning noticeably acerbic in a twinkling of Lord Monckton’s eye, “caused the changes in temperature?”

“Well,” said Lord Monckton, “we don’t know for certain, but one plausible explanation …”

“… is the Milankovich cycles!” burst in the venerable PhD, anxious not to have her punch-line stolen.

“Yes,” Monckton agreed imperturbably, “the precession of the equinoxes, and variations in the eccentricity of the Earth’s orbit and in the obliquity of its axis with respect to the plane of the ecliptic. Actually, it is arguable that the cycles were first posited by an autodidact university janitor, a Mr. Croll.” The yakking crowd of environmentalists grew more thoughtful. Their propaganda had made him out to be an ignorant nincompoop, and they had begun to realize they had made the mistake of believing it.

Lord Monckton moved into the auditorium and began with his now-famous, exuberantly verbose parody of how the IPCC might describe a spade. This elegantly hilarious gem, delivered from memory, is rumored to be longer than the Gettysburg Address. Then he said that, unlike the IPCC, he was going to speak in plain English. Yet he proposed to begin, in silence, by displaying some slides demonstrating the unhappy consequences of several instances of consensus in the 20th century.

The Versailles consensus of 1918 imposed reparations on the defeated Germany, so that the conference that ended the First World War (15 million dead) sowed the seeds of the Second. The eugenics consensus of the 1920s that led directly to the dismal rail-yards of Oswiecim and Treblinka (6 million dead). The appeasement consensus of the 1930s that provoked Hitler to start World War II (60 million dead). The Lysenko consensus of the 1940s that wrecked 20 successive harvests in the then Soviet Union (20 million dead). The ban-DDT consensus of the 1960s that led to a fatal resurgence of malaria worldwide (40 million children dead and counting, 1.25 million of them last year alone).

You could have heard a pin drop. For the first time, the largely hostile audience (for most of those who attended were environmentalists) realized that the mere fact of a consensus does not in any way inform us of whether the assertion about which there is said to be a consensus is true.

Lord Monckton then startled his audience by saying it was settled science that there is a greenhouse effect, that CO2 adds to it, that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere, that we are largely to blame, and that some warming can be expected to result. But these facts had been established by easily-replicable and frequently-replicated measurements first performed by John Tyndall in 1859 at the Royal Institution in London, “just down the road from m’ club, don’t y’ know” (laughter). Therefore, these conclusions did not need to be sanctified by consensus.

The audience were startled again when Lord Monckton showed a slide indicating that the rate of warming since 1950 was equivalent to little more than 1 Celsius degree per century, while the rate of warming the IPCC predicts for the 21st century is three times greater. His slide described this difference as the “IPCC credibility gap”.

Next, Lord Monckton baffled his audience, including the professors and PhDs (whose faces were a picture) by displaying a series of equations and graphs demonstrating that, while it was generally accepted that a doubling of CO2 concentration would cause 1 C° of warming in the absence of temperature feedbacks, the real scientific dispute between the skeptics and the believers was that the believers thought that feedbacks triggered by the original warming would triple it to 3.3 C°, while the skeptics thought the warming would stay at around 1 C°.

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A student asks Monckton a question during the Q&A period- photo by Charlotte Lehman

He moved on to show that the principal conclusions of each of the four IPCC “gospels” were questionable at best and downright fraudulent at worst. The 2007 gospel had concluded that the rate of warming was itself accelerating and that we were to blame, but this conclusion had been reached by a bogus statistical technique. By applying the same technique to a sine-wave (which the audience had agreed exhibits a zero trend), it is possible to show either a rapidly-accelerating uptrend or a rapidly-plummeting downtrend, depending on the choice of endpoints for the trend-lines on the data.

The 2001 IPCC gospel had abolished the medieval warm period by another piece of dubious statistical prestidigitation that was now under investigation by the Attorney-General of Virginia under the Fraud against Taxpayers Act 2000 (gasps of gaping astonishment from some of the environmentalists, who seemed not to have been told this before).

The 1995 gospel had been rewritten by just one man, to replace the scientists’ five-times-expressed conclusion that no human influence on global climate was discernible with a single statement flatly (and incorrectly) to the contrary.

The 1990 gospel had claimed to be able to predict temperature changes for 100 years into the future. Yet an entire generation had passed since then, and the warming over that generation had turned out to be below the lowest estimate in the IPCC’s 1990 gospel and well below its central estimate.  For eight years, sea level has been rising at a rate equivalent to just 1.3 inches per century. Worldwide hurricane activity is almost at its least in the 30-year satellite record. Global sea-ice extent has scarcely declined in that time. Here, the message was blunt: “It. Isn’t. Happening.”

Next, Lord Monckton turned to climate economics and demonstrated that the cost of acting to prevent global warming is many times greater than the cost of inaction. The example of Australia’s carbon dioxide tax showed why this was so. Australia accounts for only 1.2% of global CO2 emissions, and the government’s policy was to reduce this percentage by 5% over the ten-year life of the tax. On the generous assumption that the entire reduction would be achieved from year 1 onward, the fraction of global emissions abated would be just 0.06%. Because this fraction was so small, the projected CO2 concentration of 412 ppmv that would otherwise obtain in the atmosphere by 2020 would fall to 411.987 ppmv. Because this reduction in CO2 concentration was so small, the warming abated over the 10-year period of the tax would be just 0.000085 C°, at a discounted cost of $130 billion over the ten-year term.

Therefore, the cost of abating all of the 0.15 C° of warming that the IPCC predicted would occur between 2011 and 2020 by using measures as cost-effective as Australia’s carbon dioxide tax would be $309 trillion, 57.4% of global GDP to 2020, or $44,000 per head of the world’s population. On this basis, the cost of abating 1 C° of global warming would be $1.5 quadrillion. That, said Lord Monckton, is not cheap. In fact, it is 110 times more costly than doing nothing and paying the eventual cost of any damage that might arise from warmer weather this century.

Australia’s carbon dioxide tax is typical of the climate-mitigation measures now being proposed or implemented. All such measures are extravagantly cost-ineffective. No policy to abate global warming by controlling CO2 emissions would prove cost-effective solely on grounds of the welfare benefit from climate mitigation. CO2 mitigation strategies inexpensive enough to be affordable would be ineffective; strategies costly enough to be effective would be unaffordable. Focused adaptation to any adverse consequences of such future global warming as might arise would be many times more cost-effective than doing anything now. “If the cost of the premium exceeds the cost of the risk, don’t insure,” Monckton advised.

In any event, said Lord Monckton, the West is no longer the problem. Its emissions have been rising very slowly, but emissions in the emerging economies are rising many times faster. China, in particular, was opening one or two new coal-fired power stations every week. She was right to do so. The most efficient way to stabilize a growing population was to raise its standard of living above the poverty line, and the cheapest way to do that was to give the population electricity generated by burning fossil fuels.

Lord Monckton ended, devastatingly, by showing that a sufferer from trichiasis, a consequence of trachoma that causes the eyelashes to grow inward, causing piercingly acute pain followed eventually by blindness, can be cured at a cost of just $8. He showed a picture of a lady from Africa, smiling with delight now that she could see again. He said that the diversion of resources away from those who most urgently and immediately needed our help, in the name of addressing a non-problem that could not in any event be cost-effectively dealt with by CO2 mitigation, must be reversed at once for the sake of those who needed our help now.

Both in the Q&A session that followed Monckton’s address and in the counter-meeting held by the environmentalists (in which Lord Monckton sat in the front row taking notes), the questions flew thick and fast. Why, said a professor of environmental sciences in a rambling question apparently designed to prevent anyone else from getting a question in, had Lord Monckton not cited peer-reviewed sources?  He had cited several, but he apologized that the IPCC – which he had cited frequently – was not a peer-reviewed source: indeed, fully one-third of the references its 2007 gospel had cited had not been peer-reviewed.

Why had Lord Monckton said that from 1695-1735 the temperature in central England had risen by 2.2 degrees (implying 0.55 degrees of warming per decade) when he had gone on to say that the warming rate per decade was 0.4 degrees?  He explained that the warming rate was correctly calculated on the basis of the least-squares linear-regression trend, giving 0.39 degrees, which he had rounded for convenience.

Did Lord Monckton not accept that we could quantify the CO2 feedback?  This point came from the professor. “Well,” replied Lord Monckton in one of his most crushing responses, “perhaps the professor can quantify it, but the IPCC can’t: its 2007 gospel gives an exceptionally wide range of answers, from 25 to 225 parts per million by volume per Kelvin – in short, they don’t know.”

Why had Lord Monckton said that we could learn about temperatures in the medieval warm period from the foraminifera on the ocean floor, when the resolution was surely too poor?  Read Pudsey (2006), said Lord Monckton: the paper showed that the Larsen B ice-shelf, which had disintegrated a few years ago and provided a poster-child for global warming in Al Gore’s movie, had not been present during the medieval warm period, indicating that those who said the warm period applied only to the North Atlantic might not be right. He added that Dr. Craig Idso maintains a database of peer-reviewed papers by more than 1000 scientists from more than 400 institutions in more than 40 countries establishing that the medieval warm period was real, was global, and was at least as warm as the present and was probably warmer.

What about the methane from cattle?  Should we give up eating meat to Save The Planet?  The professor thought so. Lord Monckton, as always, had the data to hand. In the past decade, he said, methane concentration had risen by just 20 parts per billion, which might cause 1/350 C° of warming. This was too little to matter. Leave the cows alone.

What about peak fossil fuels?  Should we not start cutting back now?  No, said Lord Monckton. The recent discovery of vast and now-recoverable reserves of shale gas meant that we had several hundred years’ supply of fossil fuel. The professor agreed that shale gas had a contribution to make: it produced more energy per ton of CO2 emitted than oil or coal.

Why had Lord Monckton cherry-picked the Australian carbon dioxide tax as his economic example?  He said that in a short lecture he could only take one example, so he had taken the Australian case because all other mitigation policies were quite similar to it. It was between 10 and 100 times more costly to try to make global warming go away today than to let the warming occur – even if the warming were at the rate predicted by the IPCC, and even if the cost of inaction was as high as the Stern Report had imagined – and to concentrate on focused adaptation when and where and only if and only to the extent that might be necessary.

Was not dendrochronology now so sophisticated that we could distinguish between the broadening of annual tree-rings caused by warmer weather and the broadening caused either by wetter weather or by more CO2 in the air?  The Professor said this was now indeed possible. Lord Monckton replied that it was not possible. From 1960 onwards, the tree-ring series, even after all the complex adjustments made by the dendrochronastrologists, had showed global temperatures plummeting, while the thermometers had showed them soaring. That was why the Climategate emailers had spent so much time discussing how to “hide the decline” in the tree-ring predictions of temperature change from 1960 onward. This precipitate “decline” cast precisely the doubt upon the reliability of tree-ring temperature reconstructions that the IPCC had originally had in mind when it recommended against the use of tree-rings for reconstructing pre-instrumental temperatures. The professor had no answer to that.

The professor said he was emotional about the damage caused by global warming because in Peru and Ecuador he had seen the collapse in the water supply caused by the melting glaciers. Lord Monckton said that in nearly all parts of the world it was not the glaciers but the snow-melt that provided the water supply. Data from the Rutgers University Snow and Ice Lab showed no trend in northern-hemisphere snow cover in 40 years. He added that in the tropical Andes, according to Polissar et al. (2006), the normal state of all but the very highest peaks had been ice-free; therefore, it could not be said for certain that our influence on climate was causing any change that might not have occurred naturally anyway.

Why had Lord Monckton bothered to deal with the science at all, if the economic case against taking any action to address global warming was so overwhelming?  Lord Monckton replied that it was necessary to understand that there was no scientific case for action either, and that it was necessary for policymakers and governments to realize that key elements in the IPCC’s scientific case – such as the supposedly “accelerating” warming that had been arrived at by the bogus statistical technique he had demonstrated with a sine-wave – were downright false.

The professor then asked the students in to raise their hands if they agreed with him that the IPCC’s use of the statistical technique questioned by Lord Monckton was correct. Dutifully, fearfully, about two-thirds of the hands in the room went up. Lord Monckton turned to the professor and told him he should not have done that. He then turned to the students who had raised their hands and asked them how many of them were statisticians. Just one student began to raise his hand and then – apparently realizing that admitting he was a statistician was to admit he had knowingly raised his hand to endorse a manifest statistical falsehood – slowly lowered it again, blushing furiously.

Another student asked, in that shrill tone beloved of environmental extremists everywhere, whether Lord Monckton was a statistician. No, he said, and that was why he had taken care to anonymize the data and send them to a statistician, who had confirmed the obvious: since the same technique, applied to the same data, could produce precisely opposite results depending upon a careful choice of the endpoints for the multiple trend-lines that the IPCC’s bureaucrats had superimposed on the perfectly correct graph of 150 years of temperature changes that the scientists had submitted, the technique must be defective and any results obtained by its use must be meaningless.

Lord Monckton, sternly but sadly, told those who had raised their hands: “You know, from the plain and clear demonstration that I gave during my lecture, that the IPCC’s statistical abuse was just that – an abuse. Yet, perhaps out of misplaced loyalty to your professor, you raised your hands in denial of the truth. Never do that again, even for the sake of appeasing authority. In science, whatever you may personally believe or wish to be so, it is the truth and only the truth that matters.”

That pin, if you had dropped it, could have been heard again. Many young heads were hung in shame. Even their professor looked just a little less arrogant than he had done throughout the proceedings. Quietly they shuffled out into the darkness.

That night, the Gore Effect worked overtime. Temperatures plummeted to 14° F. The following morning, as we drove through the snowy landscape of upstate New York towards the next venue the following morning, I asked Lord Monckton what he had thought of the strange conduct of the professor, particularly when he had abused his authority by asking his students to assent to the correctness of a statistical technique that he and they had known to be plainly false.

Lord Monckton’s reply was moving. Gently, and sadly, he said, “We shall lose the West unless we can restore the use of reason to pre-eminence in our institutions of what was once learning. It was the age of reason that built the West and made it prosperous and free. The age of reason gave you your great Constitution of liberty. It is the power of reason, the second of the three great powers of the soul in Christian theology, that marks our species out from the rest of the visible creation, and makes us closest to the image and likeness of our Creator. I cannot stand by and let the forces of darkness drive us unprotesting into a new Dark Age.”

Justin Pulliam is the Northeast Regional Field Coordinator for CampusReform.org. He graduated Cum Laude with University Honors from Texas A&M University in December 2011, where he led the local Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow Chapter. He can be reached at justinpulliam@gmail.com.

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A Ustream video recording of the event is available here

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Monckton of Brenchley
March 10, 2012 7:48 pm

I should like to thank the many commenters who have been very kind about my lecture at Union College, and to reply to a few specific points that have been raised.
Leigh Kelley asks how Professor Lindzen derives a climate sensitivity one-third of the IPCC’s central estimate from the observation in Wentz et al. (2007) that the observed increase in evaporation from the Earth’s surface per Kelvin of warming is almost 6%, while the models incorrectly predict 1-3%.
Lindzen (2011) reports that Wentz et al. (2007) used space-based observations to measure how evaporation changed with temperature compared with results from models and found that in GCMs, evaporation rose 1-3% for each 1 K warming, while observed evaporation rose approximately three times faster, at 5.7%.
The heat flux associated with the percentage change ΔE/ΔT in evaporation per 1 K surface warming is (0.8 ΔE/ΔT) W m–2 K–1, and λ is in effect the reciprocal of this heat flux, so that (1) gives consequent transient climate sensitivity in Kelvin:
∆T(2x) = ∆F(2x) λ = ∆F(2x) / (0.8 ∆E/∆T). (1)
As a checksum, we can plug the modeled 3%-per-Kelvin (2) and 1%-per-Kelvin (3) increases in evaporation with warming, as well as the observed 5.7% increase (4), into (1) to determine the warming ∆T(2x) at a doubling of CO2 concentration:
∆T(2x) = (5.35 ln 2) λ = 3.71 / (0.8 x 3.0) = 1.6 K. (2)
∆T(2x) = (5.35 ln 2) λ = 3.71 / (0.8 x 1.0) = 4.6 K. (3)
∆T(2x) = (5.35 ln 2) λ = 3.71 / (0.8 x 5.7) = 0.8 K. (4)
Note that the implicit climate-sensitivity interval from the models (2,3) is [1.6, 4.6] K, which broadly coincides with the interval {1.5, 4.5] K in the IPCC’s 2001 report, and differs little from the [2.0, 4.5] K in the 2007 report. Accordingly, (2,3) show that the model offered by Professor Lindzen is well calibrated.
The IPCC’s current multi-model mean central estimate of the warming in response to a doubling of CO2 concentration is 3.3 K (IPCC, 2007, p. 798, box 10.2). However, the climate sensitivity derivable from the observed rate of increase in evaporation (4) is 0.8K, which is little more than one-quarter of the central estimate of climate sensitivity predicted by the models, and is about half of the IPCC’s current least estimate.
Jim R suggests that I might not be willing to debate with “a real scientist”. As Justin Pulliam’s article makes clear, much of the debate at Union College – particularly at the counter-meeting that I attended – was with the professor of environmental sciences, who did not seem to have read the scientific literature or the IPCC’s reports widely or with close attention. There were at least two other professors who took part in the debate, as well as various PhDs. In principle I am indeed willing to debate with “real scientists”. The advantage that the lay policy-maker has over the highly-specialist scientist is that the policy-maker, particularly if he has done his best to read the scientific literature extensively and carefully, may be able to acquire a better overall view of the subject than any specialist who is deeply read in his own specialism but not widely read outside it, though of course the layman will not know anything like as much as the specialist about the narrow field that is the specialist’s specialism.
Another commenter suggests that I should give a TED presentation. I should be happy to do this but I am disinclined to nominate myself. Anyone may nominate a speaker, so if anyone would like to put forward my name please feel free to do so.
CommieBoy says that “debate is not about the truth or the facts: it is about winning the debate.” With respect, I disagree. Debate, properly understood, is an exchange of ideas that will assist in determining the truth, and, when I take part in a debate, as I did at Union College, I do so to try to put across the truth as best I can understand it. As a layman, I am not always right: but, unlike most scientists, politicians, bureaucrats, journalists, academics, environmentalist racketeering groups and global-warming profiteers I have absolutely no financial interest in the global warming question.
At a recent debate at Oxford University, organized by the OU Engineering Society, I gave the undergraduates an argument from process engineering (which you will find in outline in my Union College presentation, and in more detail in my Hartford College lecture) to the effect that the closed-loop temperature-feedback gain in the climate system (i.e., the product of the Planck parameter and the net sum of all unamplified feedbacks) cannot much exceed 0.1, implying at most 1.3 K of warming per CO2 doubling, compared with the IPCC’s central estimate of 3.3 K. The opposing speaker who followed me opened his remarks by saying that was a professor who specialized in lecturing on feedbacks and that he had not understood a word of my argument, implying that it was nonsense. He did not, however, actually address the argument.
In the Union bar afterwards, I asked the Professor how it was that he had not understood my argument. He replied: “I understood it perfectly, but I said I did not understand it because I wanted to win.” In short, he lied. I do not know why it is that so many climate extremists (Gleick, Hansen, Mann, Pachauri etc. come to mind) find it acceptable not to adhere as closely as possible to the truth.
Fortunately, not all are like this. At a debate before the Galway branch of the Law Society of Ireland last month, I deployed the feedback argument and added, for good measure, that the Bode feedback-amplification equation upon which the IPCC relies for two-thirds of its projected warming from CO2 was not the appropriate equation. My opponent, Professor Bates, the author of several papers on feedbacks, not only understood the argument perfectly but agreed with it, and was honest enough to say so publicly.
Finally, I think the moderators are going to have to do something about the tiresome clique that, time and time again, hijack the comment threads at WattsUpWithThat by asserting that there is no such thing as a greenhouse effect, when it has been repeatedly measured both in the laboratory and in the atmosphere, and its physics – even down to the quantum level – are quite well understood. My suggestion is that in future all such comments should be redirected to a separate thread of their own, so as not to interfere tiresomely, tediously and repetitively with the workings of this blog. It is beginning to look as though the soi-disant “dragon-slayers”, who deny the existence of the greenhouse effect, are intent not on rational, scientific debate but on outright sabotage. Roy Spencer’s thoughtful and well-considered explanation of how a colder body adjacent to a warmer body can make that warmer body warmer still is excellent, as is Jack Barrett’s paper explaining the behaviour of greenhouse-gas molecules at the quantum level when they interact with long-wave radiation at their characteristic absorption wavelengths (their “absorption bands”). Professor Christopher Essex offers an excellent analogy: when outgoing radiation at the right wavelength meets a greenhouse-gas molecule, it switches it on as though the molecule were a tiny radiator. There is plenty of doubt about how much additional warming our enhancement of the greenhouse effect may cause, but there is no legitimate doubt about the fact of the greenhouse effect. Perhaps the moderators could establish a Dunces’ Corner where those who deny two centuries of established scientific results in a baseless, unscientific and often loutishly bellicose manner can still have their say without interfering with those of us who would like to engage in courteous, scientific discussions.

Bart
March 10, 2012 7:53 pm

John from CA says:
March 10, 2012 at 2:22 pm
“Excellent point about transmission but his approach is point of use.”
Yes, but, there are always transmission losses. I recognize that losses due to power line impedance may be small for a localized setup like this, but I’m also talking about other losses, e.g., in liberating, transporting and storing the hydrogen. I have to recall from memory what he said because I do not want to watch the whole video again right now, but it seems they have discovered some substance which naturally separates hydrogen and oxygen in water using sunlight with frankly astounding efficiency? What are the limits to the reaction? Surely, it is exothermic? What effect does temperature have on the rate of reaction? Is a thermal control system thereby necessary, which would impact the efficiency? Does the substance break down over time? What is the life cycle? Does it degrade the vessel in which it is contained, and what is the maintenance schedule for that?
These are just some of the questions that pop to the top of my head. I’m sure I would think of others given time. On such seemingly nit-picky details, great ideas of the past have floundered.
Such astounding efficiency gains would be a game changer. But, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I will have to see it happen with my own eyes before I believe it.

Bart
March 10, 2012 8:05 pm

Monckton of Brenchley says:
March 10, 2012 at 7:48 pm
…”the Bode feedback-amplification equation upon which the IPCC relies for two-thirds of its projected warming from CO2 was not the appropriate equation.”
I would very much like to see that argument. Can you direct me to a link where it is discussed?
BTW, I also would like to express my sincere gratitude for your efforts.

Bart
March 10, 2012 8:11 pm

I’d also like to know how I can make Greek letters appear like that. Can I cut and paste from the character map? This is a test: D. No, I can already see that failed. Maybe \Delta (backslash=Delta)? Maybe (lt-greek-gt)D(lt-backslash-greek-gt) D?
Will have to post to see.

JON R. SALMI
March 10, 2012 8:31 pm

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that environmental professor’s next class.

RoHa
March 10, 2012 8:49 pm

Sounds like a great debate, but where does the “Greens too yellow to admit they’re really Reds” bit come from?
I would be a bit surprised if it comes from Monckton, since it was his former boss, Margaret Thatcher, who peddled the Global Warming theory as a weapon to destroy the miner’s unions and the coal mines.

March 10, 2012 8:55 pm

Bart,
You can find what you need here.

March 10, 2012 9:35 pm

Myrrh says:
March 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm
.surely you’re the one who should be providing experimental proof?
______________________________
Exactly, Myrrh. If the IPCC wanted to attribute a warming property to radiation from a cooler atmosphere, then they should have proved its warming effect. I certainly can’t detect any warming in my backyard experiments, and nor would I expect to.
Prof Claes Johnson has now read my Radiated Energy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics prior to publication and has commented “Doug Cotton is one of the few people who have read and understood my analysis of blackbody radiation and radiative heat transfer and I fully endorse his essay.”
The fact that he said this is a sad reflection on the climate science community – demonstrating their reluctance to approach any contrary view with an open mind.
it’s not all that hard really, Radiation does not cause thermal energy to transfer from a cooler atmosphere to a warmer surface. All it can do is slow the radiative component of cooling. (Carbon dioxide molecules are not as effective as water vapour molecules in doing this because of their limited range of frequencies). However, evaporation and diffusion play just as great a part as radiation, and these processes can compensate for any slowing of the radiative cooling. All this is explained in detail (in about 6,600 word)s available on line on Tuesday this week.

Jeff Wiita
March 10, 2012 9:53 pm

Brian Johnson uk says:
March 10, 2012 at 1:36 am
Where is Lord Monckton’s ‘Proof’ that there is a Creator?
Is that Scientific Faith or Scientific Proof?
To Brian:
Are you able to comprehend an eternal / infinite universe? If so, why are you not able to comprehend an eternal Creator?
Brian, All science is God breathed.

Chris Schoneveld
March 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Bob Diaz says:
“Currently 20 years of data shows that the feedback to be around “0.5″ and not “3.0″ as suggested by the alarmists. One can make a case that in the long term we may see a greater rise, BUT until the data appears showing that, it’s just wishful thinking.”
20 years of data suggests nothing. It could just as well be an effect of natural warming. How does one distinguish natural from anthropogenic warming?

Bart
March 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks, Smokey!

F. Ross
March 10, 2012 10:31 pm


commieBob says:
March 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm

Jim R says:
March 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm


Actually, he would mop the floor with Mann, Jones, Hansen, Suzuki or any other ‘real’ scientist you would care to name.

[+emphasis]
..and I suspect that Lord Monckton could do it with “half his brain” figuratively tied behind his back.
Many thanks to Lord M., Justin Pulliam, and Anthony for an excellent and very readable post.

Silver Ralph
March 10, 2012 10:44 pm

Dear Lord Monckton.
I do hope you realize that the Age of Reason was a Lutherial Protestant movement, and not a Catholic one.
.

March 10, 2012 10:52 pm

In that there has been discussion of Christianity on this thread, let me just add that those who understand what Christianity is all about are very much aware of the fact that we have a relationship and communication channel with our Creator, through our living Saviour, Jesus Christ.
We are not in any way following a “religious” dogma. Nor are we earning our way to Heaven by doing good deeds, or failing to do bad ones. Heaven is a free gift, but, according to the words of God’s Son, is not for those who reject what Jesus taught and claimed about Himself. They stand condemned already – John 3:18.
All through the ages God has revealed Himself and communicated with humans. There could be no other process that could have explained how about 300 prophecies in the Old Testament came true in the New Testament hundreds of years later. (See Josh McDowell Evidence that Demands a Verdict.) I say that because we believe God can control whatever He wishes, including climate. He knows the future, because He plans it. He clearly controlled all the events that led up to the sacrificial death of His Son – paying the price for our sin. Even if you explain the darkness that came over the Earth when Christ was on the cross as being due to an eclipse of the Sun, God knew such was coming and planned the whole life of Jesus on Earth with perfect timing.
It does not seem surprising to myself that a number of noteworthy scientists have perhaps received information from their Creator about His Creation.

March 10, 2012 11:38 pm

Maurizio Morabito (omnologos) says:
“One thing I’d change is, it is meaningless to talk of quadrillions. It’s a number beyond comprehension… For example a single quadrillion $ is equivalent to spending 10 million $ EVERY DAY for 270,000 YEARS, that is longer than the lifespan so far of our own species.”
For God’s sake, man, don’t say that where Obama can hear you; he’ll probably take it as a dare.

March 11, 2012 12:03 am

Lord Monckton
As you have noted for each 1 K warming … observed evaporation rose approximately … 5.7%. This relates to the point I make when I say that evaporation (and diffusion) will compensate for any slowing of the radiative component of cooling. The only effect that radiation from a cooler atmosphere can have on the surface is to slow down the rate of thermal energy transferred by radiation to the atmosphere. But, when it does so it leaves the surface temporarily warmer and so evaporation increases, as does diffusion which is followed by convection. These processes will compensate so there is no net effect from the backradiation. Radiation from a cooler atmosphere cannot transfer thermal energy to a warmer surface.
Prof Claes Johnson (see Computational Blackbody Radiation) and I are in total agreement as to the reason being that blackbodies do not convert the energy in radiation that was emitted spontaneously by a cooler source than their own temperature.
Note in passing, however, that backradiation sent to space when solar IR is absorbed does have a cooling effect, and carbon dioxide contributes to this, even though water vapour is the main player.
You need to stop accepting all the hoax about sensitivity. The figures like 255K are wrong, because that is not calculated by integration over 24 hours, taking into account rates of conduction into and out of the surface and many other factors. As you note ,even if the correct figure could be calculated, it would be a weighted mean for the whole earth-plus-atmosphere system. But it is the adiabatic lapse rate (itself a function of the acceleration due to gravity) that determines the surface temperature, along with the long-established temperature gradient from the core to the surface which has established a stable approximate equilibrium point at the interface of the surface and atmosphere over the life of the Earth..
It has nothing whatsoever to do with backradiation, because as I explained above, such can have no net effect.

Silver Ralph
March 11, 2012 12:13 am

Doug Cotton says: March 10, 2012 at 10:52 pm
It does not seem surprising to myself that a number of noteworthy scientists have perhaps received information from their Creator about His Creation.
——————————————————————————-
Indeed. Only last year I had a long chat with god, and he said that since he was an incredibly intelligent being he appreciated humans who were similarly intelligent, inquiring and rational, and was deeply saddened by those who merely followed their emotions without any evidence.
In fact, it became abundantly clear by the end of our conversation that god’s chosen people, who would inherit the Earth, were in fact the atheists.
.

commieBob
March 11, 2012 12:20 am

Smokey and Monckton,
The first thing I learned about debate was the following:

The major goal of the study of debate as a method or art is to develop one’s ability to play from either position with equal ease. wiki article

By dint of superior lawyering, I have often seen the guilty exonerated and the innocent convicted. Debate, as a method of establishing the truth, has its limitations.

March 11, 2012 12:40 am

WOW! I have been waiting over 20 years for this. I have called these warmists ; Mentally deficient . That has been confirmed by Dr. Mairwen Jones of Sydney Universirty . The conclusion of their study, is that 30% of warmist followers have AGWOCD. Anthropogenic global warming obsessive compulsive disorder .
Please ! please ! Tell our New Zealand politicians to revoke the evil carbon tax legislation .

March 11, 2012 12:44 am

Dave Dardinger says:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/10/moncktons-schenectady-showdown/#comment-918859
Henry@Dave/Myrrh/Doug/Will etc
Dave is basically correct. The only thing I noticed is that the re-radiative properties of the GHG’s in the 0-5 um range have been largely ignored. If you mention such things as the fact that CO2 also causes direct cooling (by re-radiation of sunlight) you get answers like:
“we already counted that in earth’s albedo”, or: “we already discounted that in the incoming SW.”
Which is nonsense of course…. You have to come with a balance sheet on each GHG. It has also been said by someone that the warming effect of GHG’s is largely a delay in cooling, which is correct. For example, look at the absorption of ozone at around 10-11 um? It makes a dent in earth’s out-going radiation at 10-11. In other words what happens: Radiation from earth of 10-11 goes up, hits on the ozone, which is high up in the sky and which is already absorbed to capacity (because earth emits in the region 5-20 for 24 hours per day) , and therefore a great percentage (at least 50%, probably more) of that 10-11 is re-radiated back to earth, leading to entrapment of heat, or rather to a delay in cooling, leading to a warming effect. On the other hand, nobody in his right mind is going to bring an argument that we must reduce the ozone content, because on its own the ozone shields us from ca. 15-20 of incoming sunlight by re-radiating (deflection) in the UV region.
I found that it is the same like that with every GHG. There is positive and negative and nobody has compiled an exact balance sheet of each GHG.
I have written a piece on this that I think we can later call
“Back radiation CO2 – 101”
for those interested in the basics.
I am inviting comments on this piece from all of you, especially from you, Dave & Doug
to tell me if you think that the information I give there is correct, and/or if you can propose any changes?
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011
Let me know.

Gary Hladik
March 11, 2012 1:06 am

Doug Cotton says (March 10, 2012 at 10:52 pm): “It does not seem surprising to myself that a number of noteworthy scientists have perhaps received information from their Creator about His Creation.”
I’m guessing Peter Gleick thinks he’s one of them. 🙂

Bart
March 11, 2012 1:30 am

Doug Cotton says:
March 10, 2012 at 10:52 pm
“I say that because we believe God can control whatever He wishes, including climate.”
If you believe that, and you further believe that the climate will be OK simply because God will take care of it, then you have violated a commandment:

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

From Matthew 4:1-11

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

God will not save you if you do something stupid. God will not be a slave to you so that you may do whatever you wish without consequence.
So, how about getting with the program, and helping decide whether A) Global Warming, putatively from our burning of fossil fuels, is or is not a problem and B) what, if anything, should be done about it. And, weigh the evidence without the presumption that you must have nothing to fear because God will bail us out in the end. He has made no such promise. Indeed, He has warned against such presumption.
[All – please note blog policy
“Certain topics are not welcome here and comments concerning them will be deleted. This includes topics on religion,…”
Please steer this away from any further discussion in this vein or comments will be snipped ~jove, Moderator]

Rhys Jaggar
March 11, 2012 1:30 am

‘I have had the pleasure of listening to His Lordship at previous campus events. He is at his best when confronted by a hostile audience. The angrier and more indignant they are, the more he seems to like it.’
There was a day, many years ago, when a conviction politician of socialist leanings in the UK used to spend his summers as a young man jousting with attendees at the Conservative Party conference.
As he said: ‘no point wasting my time convincing people who already agree with me…..’
Speaking to you friends all the time is for massaging egos.
Speaking to, engaging with and arguing with those of differing opinion is real politics.
IMHO.

Bart
March 11, 2012 1:44 am

Doug Cotton says:
March 11, 2012 at 12:03 am
“The only effect that radiation from a cooler atmosphere can have on the surface is to slow down the rate of thermal energy transferred by radiation to the atmosphere.”
That’s a substantial climb down from what you have been saying previously on these boards, though you do not acknowledge it. But, that is exactly the process everyone is describing. The “backradiation” explanation is simply an heuristic argument based on the fact that, in equilibrium, the backradiation from the atmosphere and the incoming solar radiation must balance with the outgoing surface radiation.
“But, when it does so it leaves the surface temporarily warmer and so evaporation increases, as does diffusion which is followed by convection. These processes will compensate so there is no net effect from the backradiation. “
OK, you are now describing a feedback process which would tend to ameliorate the warming. But, you must express it in the language of mathematics and quantify it, or it will never fly. Right now, you’re just sketching a plausible narrative. That is what the Warmists do, and think it is proof. They are wrong. Just because something sounds good, and a couple of other guys, or a whole army of them, think so, too, that does not make it right.

Bart
March 11, 2012 1:47 am

“Please steer this away from any further discussion in this vein or comments will be snipped”
Got it. It made me extremely uncomfortable even mentioning it in this venue. But, since you let DC’s first comment through, I felt it might be helpful to try to reach him from that POV.
[Reply – yes not aimed at you specifically – previous comment from Doug approved by another moderator. Delicate balance to allow some comments but prevent any unwelcome stuff from taking hold. Jove, Mod]

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