Unified Theory of Climate: Reply to Comments

Foreword – I’ve had this document since January 17th, and it has taken some time to get it properly reproduced here in full due to formatting issues. Some equations have to be converted to images, and I have to double check every superscript, subscript, and symbol for accuracy, then re-insert/re-format many manually since they often don’t reproduce properly in WordPress. WordPress doesn’t manage copy/paste of complex documents well. I hope that I have everything correctly reproduced, if not, please leave a note. A PDF of the original is here: UTC_Blog_Reply_Part1 This is a contentious issue, and while it would be a wonderful revelation if it were proven to be true, I personally cannot see any way it can surmount the law of conservation of energy. That view is shared by others, noted in the opening paragraph below. However, I’m providing this for the educational value it may bring to those who can take it all in and discuss it rationally, with a caution – because this issue is so contentious, I ask readers to self-moderate so that the WUWT moderation team does not have to be heavy handed. I invite you take it all in, and to come to your own conclusion. Thank you for your consideration. – Anthony

Part 1: Magnitude of the Natural ‘Greenhouse’ Effect

Ned Nikolov, Ph.D. and Karl Zeller, Ph.D.

  1. Introduction

Our recent paper “Unified Theory of Climate: Expanding the Concept of Atmospheric Greenhouse Effect Using Thermodynamic Principles. Implications for Predicting Future Climate Change” spurred intense discussions at WUWT and Tallbloke’s Talkshop websites. Many important questions were raised by bloggers and two online articles by Dr. Ira Glickstein (here) and Dr. Roy Spencer (here). After reading through most responses, it became clear to us that that an expanded explanation is needed. We present our reply in two separate articles that address blog debate foci as well as key aspects of the new paradigm.

Please, consider that understanding this new theory requires a shift in perception! As Albert Einstein once noted, a new paradigm cannot be grasped within the context of an existing mindset; hence, we are constrained by the episteme we are living in. In that light, our concept requires new definitions that may or may not have exact counterparts in the current Greenhouse theory. For example, it is crucial for us to introduce and use the term Atmospheric Thermal Effect (ATE) because: (a) The term Greenhouse Effect (GE) is inherently misleading due to the fact that the free atmosphere, imposing no restriction on convective cooling, does not really work as a closed greenhouse; (b) ATE accurately coveys the physical essence of the phenomenon, which is the temperature boost at the surface due to the presence of atmosphere; (c) Reasoning in terms of ATE vs. GE helps broaden the discussion beyond radiative transfer; and (d) Unlike GE, the term Atmospheric Thermal Effect implies no underlying physical mechanism(s).

We start with the undisputable fact that the atmosphere provides extra warmth to the surface of Earth compared to an airless environment such as on the Moon. This prompts two basic questions: (1) What is the magnitude of this extra warmth, i.e. the size of ATE ? and (2) How does the atmosphere produce it, i.e. what is the physical mechanism of ATE ? In this reply we address the first question, since it appears to be the crux of most people’s difficulty and needs a resolution before proceeding with the rest of the theory (see, for example, Lord Monckton’s WUWT post).

  1. Magnitude of Earth’s Atmospheric Thermal Effect

We maintain that in order to properly evaluate ATE one must compare Earth’s average near-surface temperature to the temperature of a spherical celestial body with no atmosphere at the same distance from the Sun. Note that, we are not presently concerned with the composition or infrared opacity of the atmosphere. Instead, we are simply trying to quantify the overall effect of our atmosphere on the surface thermal environment; hence the comparison with a similarly illuminated airless planet. We will hereafter refer to such planet as an equivalent Planetary Gray Body (PGB).

Since temperature is proportional (linearly related) to the internal kinetic energy of a system, it is theoretically perfectly justifiable to use meanglobal surface temperatures to quantify the ATE. There are two possible indices one could employ for this:

  1. The absolute difference between Earth’s mean temperature (Ts) and that of an equivalent PGB (Tgb), i.e. ATE = TsTgb; or
  1. The ratio of Ts to Tgb. The latter index is particularly attractive, since it normalizes (standardizes) ATE with respect to the top-of-atmosphere (TOA) solar irradiance (So), thus enabling a comparison of ATEs among planets that orbit at various distances from the Sun and receive different amounts of solar radiation. We call this non-dimensional temperature ratio a Near-surface Thermal Enhancement (ATEn) and denote it by NTE = Ts / Tgb. In theory, therefore, NTE should be equal or greater than 1.0 (NTE ≥ 1.0). Please, note that ATEn is a measure of ATE.

It is important to point out that the current GE theory measures ATE not by temperature, but by the amount of absorbed infrared (IR) radiation. Although textbooks often mention that Earth’s surface is 18K-33K warmer than the Moon thanks to the ‘greenhouse effect’ of our atmosphere, in the scientific literature, the actual effect is measured via the amount of outgoing infrared radiation absorbed by the atmosphere (e.g. Stephens et al. 1993; Inamdar & Ramanathan 1997; Ramanathan & Inamdar 2006; Houghton 2009). It is usually calculated as a difference (occasionally a ratio) between the total average infrared flux emanating at the surface and that at the top of the atmosphere. Defined in this way, the average atmospheric GE, according to satellite observations, is between 157 and 161 W m-2 (Ramanathan & Inamdar 2006; Lin et al. 2008; Trenberth et al. 2009). In other words, the current theory uses radiative flux units instead of temperature units to quantify ATE. This approach is based on the preconceived notion that GE works by reducing the rate of surface infrared cooling to space. However, measuring a phenomenon with its presumed cause instead by its manifest effect can be a source of major confusion and error as demonstrated in our study. Hence, we claim that the proper assessment of ATE depends on an accurate estimate of the mean surface temperature of an equivalent PGB (Tgb).

  1. Estimating the Mean Temperature of an Equivalent Planetary Gray Body

There are two approaches to estimate Tgb – a theoretical one based on known physical relationships between temperature and radiation, and an empirical one relying on observations of the Moon as the closest natural gray body to Earth.

According to the Stefan-Boltzmann (SB) law, any physical object with a temperature (T, oK) above the absolute zero emits radiation with an intensity (I, W m-2) that is proportional to the 4th power of the object’s absolute temperature:

image

where ϵ is the object’s thermal emissivity/absorptivity (0 ≤ ϵ ≤ 1 ), and σ = 5.6704×10-8 W m-2 K-4 is the SB constant. A theoretical blackbody has ϵ = 1.0, while real solid objects such as rocks usually have ϵ ≈ 0.95. In principle, Eq. (1) allows for an accurate calculation of an object’s equilibrium temperature given the amount of absorbed radiation by the object, i.e.

image

The spatially averaged amount of solar radiation absorbed by the Earth-Atmosphere system (Sα ̅̅̅, W m-2) can be accurately computed from TOA solar irradiance (Sα ̅̅̅, W m-2) and planetary albedo (αp) as

image

where the TOA shortwave flux (W m-2) incident on a plane perpendicular to the solar rays. The factor ¼ serves to distribute the solar flux incident on a flat surface to a sphere. It arises from the fact that the surface area of a sphere (4πR2) is 4 times larger than the surface area of a disk (πR2) of the same radius (R). Hence, it appears logical that one could estimate Earth’s average temperature in the absence of ATE from using the SB law. i.e.

image

Here (TeK) is known as the effective emission temperature of Earth. Employing typical values for S0 =W m-2 and αp = 0.3 and assuming, ϵ  = 1.0 Eq. (3) yields 254.6K. This is the basis for the widely quoted 255K (-18C) mean surface temperature of Earth in the absence of a ‘greenhouse effect’, i.e. if the atmosphere were missing or ‘completely transparent’ to IR radiation. This temperature is also used to define the so-called effective emission height in the troposphere (at about 5 km altitude), where the bulk of Earth’s outgoing long-wave radiation to space is assumed to emanate from. Since Earth’s mean surface temperature is 287.6K (+14.4C), the present theory estimates the size of ATE to be 287.6K – 254.6K = 33K. However, as pointed out by other studies, this approach suffers from a serious logical error. Removing the atmosphere (or even just the water vapor in it) would result in a much lower planetary albedo, since clouds are responsible for most of Earth’s shortwave reflectance. Hence, one must use a different albedo (αp) in Eq. (3) that only quantifies the actual surface reflectance. A recent analysis of Earth’s global energy budget by Trenberth et al. (2009) using satellite observations suggests αp≈ 0.12. Serendipitously, this value is quite similar to the Moon bond albedo of 0.11 (see Table 1 in our original paper), thus allowing evaluation of Earth’s ATE using our natural satellite as a suitable PGB proxy. Inserting= 0.12 in Eq. (3) produces Te = 269.6K, which translates into an ATE of only 18K (i.e. 287.6 – 269.6 = 18K).

In summary, the current GE theory employs a simple form of the SB law to estimate the magnitude of Earth’s ATE between 18K and 33K. The theory further asserts that the Moon average temperature is 250K to 255K despite the fact that using the correct lunar albedo (0.11) in Eq. (3) produces ≈270K, i.e. a15K to 20K higher temperature! Furthermore, the application of Eq. (3) to calculate the mean temperature of a sphere runs into a fundamental mathematical problem caused by Hölder’s inequality between non-linear integrals (e.g. Kuptsov 2001). What does this mean? Hölder’s inequality applies to certain non-linear functions and states that, in such functions, the use of an arithmetic average for the independent (input) variable will not produce a correct mean value of the dependent (output) variable. Hence, due to a non-linear relationship between temperature and radiative flux in the SB law (Eq. 3) and the variation of absorbed radiation with latitude on a spherical surface, one cannot correctly calculate the mean temperature of a unidirectionally illuminated planet from the amount of spatially averaged absorbed radiation defined by Eq. (2). According to Hölder’s inequality, the temperature calculated from Eq. (3) will always be significantly higher than the actual mean temperature of an airless planet. We can illustrate this effect with a simple example.

Let’s consider two points on the surface of a PGB, P1 and P2, located at the exact same latitude (say 45oN) but at opposite longitudes so that, when P1 is fully illuminated, P2 is completely shaded and vice versa (see Fig. 1). If the PGB is orbiting at the same distance from the Sun as Earth and solar rays were the only source of heat to it, then the equilibrium temperature at the illuminated point would be (assuming a solar zenith angle θ = 45o), while the temperature at the shaded point would be T2 = 0 (since it receives no radiation due to cosθ < 0). The mean temperature between the two points is then Tm = (T1 + T2)/2 = 174.8K. However, if we try using the average radiation absorbed by the two points W m-2 to calculate a mean temperature, we obtain = 234.2K. Clearly, Te is much greater than Tm (TeTm), which is a result of Hölder’s inequality.

image

Figure 1. Illustration of the effect of Hölder’s inequality on calculating the mean surface temperature of an airless planet. See text for details.

The take-home lesson from the above example is that calculating the actual mean temperature of an airless planet requires explicit integration of the SB law over the planet surface. This implies first taking the 4th root of the absorbed radiative flux at each point on the surface and then averaging the resulting temperature field rather than trying to calculate a mean temperature from a spatially averaged flux as done in Eq. (3).

Thus, we need a new model that is capable of predicting Tgb more robustly than Eq. (3). To derive it, we adopt the following reasoning. The equilibrium temperature at any point on the surface of an airless planet is determined by the incident solar flux, and can be approximated (assuming uniform albedo and ignoring the small heat contributions from tidal forces and interior radioactive decay) as

image

where is the solar zenith angle (radian) at point , which is the angle between solar rays and the axis normal to the surface at that point (see Fig. 1). Upon substituting , the planet’s mean temperature () is thus given by the spherical integral of , i.e.

image

Comparing the final form of Eq. (5) with Eq. (3) shows that Tgb << Te in accordance with Hölder’s inequality. To make the above expression physically more realistic, we add a small constant Cs =0.0001325 W m-2 to So, so that when So = 0.0, Eq. (5) yields Tgb = 2.72K (the irreducible temperature of Deep Space), i.e:

image

In a recent analytical study, Smith (2008) argued that Eq. (5) only describes the mean temperature of a non-rotating planet and that, if axial rotation and thermal capacity of the surface are explicitly accounted for, the average temperature of an airless planet would approach the effective emission temperature. It is beyond the scope of the current article to mathematically prove the fallacy of this argument. However, we will point out that increasing the mean equilibrium temperature of a physical body always requires a net input of extra energy. Adding axial rotation to a stationary planet residing in a vacuum, where there is no friction with the external environment does not provide any additional heat energy to the planet surface. Faster rotation and/or higher thermal inertia of the ground would only facilitate a more efficient spatial distribution of the absorbed solar energy, thus increasing the uniformity of the resulting temperature field across the planet surface, but could not affect the average surface temperature. Hence, Eq. (6) correctly describe (within the assumption of albedo uniformity) the global mean temperature of any airless planet, be it rotating or non-rotating.

Inserting typical values for Earth and Moon into Eq. (6), i.e. So = 1,362 W m-2, αo = 0.11, and ϵ = 0.955, produces Tgb = 154.7K. This estimate is about 100K lower than the conventional black-body temperature derived from Eq. (3) implying that Earth’s ATE (i.e. the GE) is several times larger than currently believed! Such a result, although mathematically justified, requires independent empirical verification due to its profound implications for the current GE theory. As noted earlier, the Moon constitutes an ideal proxy PGB in terms of its location, albedo, and airless environment, against which the thermal effect of Earth’s atmosphere could be accurately assessed. Hence, we now turn our attention to the latest temperature observations of the Moon.

  1. NASA’s Diviner Lunar Radiometer Experiment

In June 2009, NASA launched its Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), which carries (among other instruments) a Radiometer called Diviner. The purpose of Diviner is to map the temperature of the Moon surface in unprecedented detail employing measurements in 7 IR channels that span wavelengths from 7.6 to 400 μm. Diviner is the first instrument designed to measure the full range of lunar surface temperatures, from the hottest to the coldest. It also includes two solar channels that measure the intensity of reflected solar radiation enabling a mapping of the lunar shortwave albedo as well (for details, see the Diviner Official Website at http://www.diviner.ucla.edu/).

Although the Diviner Experiment is still in progress, most thermal mapping of the Moon surface has been completed and data are available online. Due to time constraints of this article, we did not have a chance to analyze Diviner’s temperature data ourselves. Instead, we elected to rely on information reported by the Diviner Science Team in peer-reviewed publications and at the Diviner website.

Data obtained during the LRO commissioning phase reveal that the Moon has one of the most extreme thermal environments in the solar system. Surface temperatures at low latitudes soar to 390K (+117C) around noon while plummeting to 90-95K (-181C), i.e. almost to the boiling point of liquid oxygen, during the long lunar night (Fig. 2). Remotely sensed temperatures in the equatorial region agree very well with direct measurement conducted on the lunar surface at 26.1o N by the Apollo 15 mission in early 1970s (see Huang 2008). In the polar regions, within permanently shadowed areas of large impact craters, Diviner has measured some of the coldest temperatures ever observed on a celestial body, i.e. down to 25K-35K (-238C to -248C). It is important to note that planetary scientists have developed detailed process-based models of the surface temperatures of Moon and Mercury some 13 years ago (e.g. Vasavada et al. 1999). These models are now being successfully validated against Diviner measurements (Paige et al. 2010b; Dr. M. Siegler at UCLA, personal communication).

What is most interesting to our discussion, however, are the mean temperatures at various lunar latitudes, for these could be compared to temperatures in similar regions on Earth to evaluate the size of ATE and to verify our calculations. Figure 3 depicts typical diurnal courses of surface temperature on the Moon at four latitudes (adopted from Paige et. al 2010a).

image

Figure 2. Thermal maps of the Moon surface based on NASA’s Diviner infrared measurements showing daytime maximum and nighttime minimum temperature fields (Source: Diviner Web Site).

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Figure 3. Typical diurnal variations of the Moon surface temperature at various latitudes. Local time is expressed in lunar hours which correspond to 1/24 of a lunar month. At 89◦ latitude, diurnal temperature variations are shown at summer and winter solstices (adopted from Paige et al. 2010a). Dashed lines indicate annual means at the lunar equator and at the poles.

image

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Figure 4. Temperature maps of the South Pole of the Moon and Earth: (A) Daytime temperature field at peak illumination on the Moon; (B) Nighttime temperature field on the Moon; (C) Mean summer temperatures over Antarctica; (D) Mean winter temperatures over Antarctica. Numbers shown in bold on panels (C) and (D) are temperatures in oK. Panels (A) and (B) are produced by the Diviner Lunar Radiometer Experiment (Paige et al. 2010b). Antarctica maps are from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_climate). Comparison of surface temperatures between Moon’s South Pole and Antarctica suggests a thermal enhancement by the Earth atmosphere (i.e. a ‘Greenhouse Effect’) of about 107K in the summer and 178K in the winter for this part of the Globe.

Figures 4A & 4B display temperature maps of the Moon South Pole during daytime peak illumination and at night (Paige et. al 2010b). Since the Moon has a small obliquity (axial tilt) of only 1.54o and a slow rotation, the average diurnal temperatures are similar to seasonal temperature means. These data along with information posted at the Diviner Science webpage indicate that mean temperature at the lunar-surface ranges from 98K (-175C) at the poles to 206K (-67C) at the equator. This encompasses pretty well our theoretical estimate of 154.7K for the Moon mean global temperature produced by Eq. (6). In the coming months, we will attempt to calculate more precisely Moon’s actual mean temperature from Diviner measurements. Meanwhile, data published by NASA planetary scientists clearly show that the value 250K-255K adopted by the current GE theory as Moon’s average global temperature is grossly exaggerated, since such high temperature means do not occur at any lunar latitude! Even the Moon equator is 44K – 49K cooler than that estimate. This value is inaccurate, because it is the result of an improper application of the SB law to a sphere while assuming the wrong albedo (see discussion in Section 2.1 above)!

Similarly, the mean global temperatures of Mercury (440K) and Mars (210K) reported on the NASA Planetary Fact Sheet are also incorrect, since they have been calculated from the same Eq. (3) used to produce the 255K temperature for the Moon. We urge the reader to verify this claim by applying Eq. (3) with data for solar irradiance (So) and bond albedo (αo) listed on the fact sheet of each planet while setting ϵ = 1. This is the reason that, in our original paper, we used 248.2K for Mercury, since that temperature was obtained from the theoretically correct Eq. (6). For Mars, we adopted means calculated from regional data of near-surface temperature and pressure retrieved by the Radio Science Team at Stanford University employing remote observations by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft. It is odd to say the least that the author of NASA’s Planetary Fact Sheets, Dr. David R. Williams, has chosen Eq. (3) to calculate Mars’ average surface temperature while ignoring the large body of high-quality direct measurements available for the Red Planet!?

So, what is the real magnitude of Earth’s Atmospheric Thermal Effect?

Table 1. Estimated Atmospheric Thermal Effect for equator and the poles based on observed surface temperatures on Earth and the Moon and using the lunar surface as a proxy for Earth’s theoretical gray body. Data obtained from Diviner’s Science webpage, Paige at al. (2010b), Figure 4, and Wikipedia:Oymyakon.

image

Figure 5. Earth’s mean annual near-surface temperature according to Wikipedia (Geographic Zones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_zone).

Table 1 shows observed mean and record-low surface temperatures at similar latitudes on Earth and on the Moon. The ATE is calculated as a difference between Earth and Moon temperatures assuming that the Moon represents a perfect PGB proxy for Earth. Figure 5 displays a global map of Earth’s mean annual surface temperatures to help the reader visually verify some of the values listed in Table 1. The results of the comparison can be summarized as follows:

The Atmospheric Thermal Effect, presently known as the natural Greenhouse Effect, varies from 93K at the equator to about 150K at the poles (the latter number represents an average between North- and South- Pole ATE mean values, i.e. (158+143)/2 =150.5. This range encompasses quite well our theoretical estimate of 133K for the Earth’s overall ATE derived from Eq. (6), i.e. 287.6K – 154.7K = 132.9K.

Of course, further analysis of the Diviner data is needed to derive a more precise estimate of Moon’s mean surface temperature and verify our model prediction. However, given the published Moon measurements, it is clear that the widely quoted value of 33K for Earth’s mean ATE (GE) is profoundly misleading and wrong!

  1. Conclusion

We have shown that the SB Law relating radiation intensity to temperature (Eq. 1 & 3) has been incorrectly applied in the past to predict mean surface temperatures of celestial bodies including Mars, Mercury, and the Moon. Due to Hölder’s inequality between non-linear integrals, the effective emission temperature computed from Eq. (3) is always significantly higher than the actual (arithmetic) mean temperature of an airless planet. This makes the planetary emission temperature Te produced by Eq. (3) physically incompatible with any real measured temperatures on Earth’s surface or in the atmosphere. By using a proper integration of the SB Law over a sphere, we derived a new formula (Eq. 6) for estimating the average temperature of a planetary gray body (subject to some assumptions). We then compared the Moon mean temperature predicted by this formula to recent thermal observations and detailed energy budget calculation of the lunar surface conducted by the NASA Diviner Radiometer Experiment. Results indicate that Moon’s average temperature is likely very close to the estimate produced by our Eq. (6). At the same time, Moon measurements also show that the current estimate of 255K for the lunar average surface temperature widely used in climate science is unrealistically high; hence, further demonstrating the inadequacy of Eq. (3). The main result from the Earth-Moon comparison (assuming the Moon is a perfect gray-body proxy of Earth) is that the Earth’s ATE, also known as natural Greenhouse Effect, is 3 to 7 times larger than currently assumed. In other words, the current GE theory underestimates the extra atmospheric warmth by about 100K! In terms of relative thermal enhancement, the ATE translates into NTE = 287.6/154.7 = 1.86.

This finding invites the question: How could such a huge (> 80%) thermal enhancement be the result of a handful of IR-absorbing gases that collectively amount to less than 0.5% of total atmospheric mass? We recall from our earlier discussion that, according to observations, the atmosphere only absorbs 157 – 161 W m-2 long-wave radiation from the surface. Can this small flux increase the temperature of the lower troposphere by more than 100K compared to an airless environment? The answer obviously is that the observed temperature boost near the surface cannot be possibly due to that atmospheric IR absorption! Hence, the evidence suggests that the lower troposphere contains much more kinetic energy than radiative transfer alone can account for! The thermodynamics of the atmosphere is governed by the Gas Law, which states that the internal kinetic energy and temperature of a gas mixture is also a function of pressure (among other things, of course). In the case of an isobaric process, where pressure is constant and independent of temperature such as the one operating at the Earth surface, it is the physical force of atmospheric pressure that can only fully explain the observed near-surface thermal enhancement (NTE). But that is the topic of our next paper… Stay tuned!

  1. References

Inamdar, A.K. and V. Ramanathan (1997) On monitoring the atmospheric greenhouse effect from space. Tellus 49B, 216-230.

Houghton, J.T. (2009). Global Warming: The Complete Briefing (4th Edition). Cambridge University Press, 456 pp.

Huang, S. (2008). Surface temperatures at the nearside of the Moon as a record of the radiation budget of Earth’s climate system. Advances in Space Research 41:1853–1860 (http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/Huang07ASR.pdf)

Kuptsov, L. P. (2001) Hölder inequality. In: Encyclopedia of Mathematics, Hazewinkel and Michiel, Springer, ISBN 978-1556080104.

Lin, B., P. W. Stackhouse Jr., P. Minnis, B. A. Wielicki, Y. Hu, W. Sun, Tai-Fang Fan, and L. M. Hinkelman (2008). Assessment of global annual atmospheric energy balance from satellite observations. J. Geoph. Res. Vol. 113, p. D16114.

Paige, D.A., Foote, M.C., Greenhagen, B.T., Schofield, J.T., Calcutt, S., Vasavada, A.R., Preston, D.J., Taylor, F.W., Allen, C.C., Snook, K.J., Jakosky, B.M., Murray, B.C., Soderblom, L.A., Jau, B., Loring, S., Bulharowski J., Bowles, N.E., Thomas, I.R., Sullivan, M.T., Avis, C., De Jong, E.M., Hartford, W., McCleese, D.J. (2010a). The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Diviner Lunar Radiometer Experiment. Space Science Reviews, Vol 150, Num 1-4, p125-16 (http://www.diviner.ucla.edu/docs/fulltext.pdf)

Paige, D.A., Siegler, M.A., Zhang, J.A., Hayne, P.O., Foote, E.J., Bennett, K.A., Vasavada, A.R., Greenhagen, B.T, Schofield, J.T., McCleese, D.J., Foote, M.C., De Jong, E.M., Bills, B.G., Hartford, W., Murray, B.C., Allen, C.C., Snook, K.J., Soderblom, L.A., Calcutt, S., Taylor, F.W., Bowles, N.E., Bandfield, J.L., Elphic, R.C., Ghent, R.R., Glotch, T.D., Wyatt, M.B., Lucey, P.G. (2010b). Diviner Lunar Radiometer Observations of Cold Traps in the Moon’s South Polar Region. Science, Vol 330, p479-482. (http://www.diviner.ucla.edu/docs/paige_2010.pdf)

Ramanathan, V. and A. Inamdar (2006). The Radiative Forcing due to Clouds and Water Vapor. In: Frontiers of Climate Modeling, J. T. Kiehl and V. Ramanthan, Editors, (Cambridge University Press 2006), pp. 119-151.

Smith, A. 2008. Proof of the atmospheric greenhouse effect. Atmos. Oceanic Phys. arXiv:0802.4324v1 [physics.ao-ph] (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0802/0802.4324v1.pdf ).

Stephens, G.L., A. Slingo, and M. Webb (1993) On measuring the greenhouse effect of Earth. NATO ASI Series, Vol. 19, 395-417.

Trenberth, K.E., J.T. Fasullo, and J. Kiehl (2009). Earth’s global energy budget. BAMS, March:311-323

Vasavada, A. R., D. A. Paige and S. E. Wood (1999). Near-surface temperatures on Mercury and the Moon and the stability of polar ice deposits. Icarus 141:179–193 (http://www.gps.caltech.edu/classes/ge151/references/vasavada_et_al_1999.pdf)

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Gras Albert
January 23, 2012 2:36 am

NikolovHence, the evidence suggests that the lower troposphere contains much more kinetic energy than radiative transfer alone can account for!
Indeed!, some of that kinetic energy is derived because the planet is rotating, consider a line drawn perpendicular to the surface and extended through the stratosphere. At any instant molecule A at 50km, molecule B at 10km and molecule C at the surface sit on that line, but the surface is rotating at 7.272 x 10-5 radians/sec (0.278 miles/second, 1000mph), does the atmosphere at 50km rotate with the same angular velocity? No it does not, just as convection triggered thermal bubbles never attain the horizontal velocity of the air mass in which they rise so there is an angular velocity gradient with increasing altitude. Where is the consideration in the energy budget of the effect on the lower troposphere of the constant movement of continental mountain ranges through an atmosphere which rotates at some fraction of the surface angular velocity?
There is another atmospheric energy transfer system in regular operation which is never mentioned in Consensus Climate Theory, atmospheric (lee) waves, lee waves reach from the surface to the upper stratosphere, they extend hundreds of kilometres from their source and have been measured with vertical velocities exceeding 20m/s (40kts, 4000ft/min). Their capacity to do work dwarfs that of thunderstorms, with appropriate atmospheric conditions they operate 24/7 sometimes for several days continuously, the Maori label for the islands of New Zealand, the land of the long white cloud is highly appropriate, consider the work done to create a lenticular cloud system 1000km long and several km high!
I applaud Nikolov et al for thinking outside the box, I challenge Joel Shore to start the same process

HLx
January 23, 2012 2:55 am

Refraction of thermal(LW) radiation.
Hi! Can someone answer a question from me.
For radio waves we get a refraction as a result of the different densities (different n) in the atmosphere. Waves traveling normal to the ground, do not refract. But with ever increasing angle to the normal, a larger refraction is observed. (This refraction is also observable for visible light, as our sky is blue).
A point on a body radiates heat in all directions (0 to 90 degrees of the normal). One could believe the higher the angle, the higher the thermal refraction.This should help keep a noticeable amount of LW radiation, thus increasing the temperature, of the ground (and atmosphere).
My question:
1. –> Does anyone take this into account?
(this would make a planet with atmosphere hotter)
Also:
2. –> How much does this effect account for?

markus
January 23, 2012 3:24 am

And for the other views out there;
Heat is a manifestation of kinetic energy which cannot penetrate the mass of earth.
We cannot add extra heat to our planet by any direction of radiation.
Markus.

A. C. Osborn
January 23, 2012 3:35 am

A physicist says: January 22, 2012 at 5:59 pm says “Whether the insulating layers are made of metal foil, or whether they’re made of CO2, that multilayer insulation trick works *really* well!”
There is agreat deal of difference between a Mirror reflecting radiation away, it is using an Albedo of nearly 100% and CO2 molecules absorbing a very small percentage of outgoing radiation.

AusieDan
January 23, 2012 3:57 am

I think that it would helpful at this stage to take up Willis’ challange and attempt a brief elevator summary.
Start:
What N&Z are claiming is that maximum annual temperature at the surface is a function of both distance from the sun (irradiance) plus atmospheric pressure at the surface.
End of summary.
That is what we should be debating.
All the detail about maths and so forth can be left until this essential mattter is settled.
Unlike many here, I have not been delving too much into mathematical theory or physics.
Instead, I have been doing lots and lots of calculating and charting.
I urge you all to do likewise.
What you will find is that N&Z theory is robust.
You can make all the changes that you like, but you will find that Tgb remains a function of irradiance, Nte canbe expressed as a function of atmospheric pressure that works for at least eight solar bodies and Ts (equal to Tgb * Nte) is almost exactly equal to the observed temperature.
OK, now lets start debating the Unified Theory.

AusieDan
January 23, 2012 4:02 am

Perhaps I should have added that there is a body of mostly informal experiments (but some published ones as well) that demonstrate quite clealy that all gases can be heated.
Some of these make quite plainly explicit that, given equal pressure, the increase in temperature of CO2 rises to exactly the same temperature as normal air, when acted on by an equal heat source.
So let’s once and for all, forget this nonesense about greenhouse gases.

Stephen Wilde
January 23, 2012 4:08 am

The consensus seems to be developing that N & Z are correct and the radiative theory of the Greenhouse Effect is unravelling.
Quite right too.
It was always an unproved and unlikely speculation in light of the 150 year old known physics of the Gas Laws.
The next step is to decide what happens to the extra energy in the air from GHGs INSTEAD of raising the system temperature.
That leads to a true Unification Theory of Climate and I have been banging on about it here and elsewhere for four years now.
Sinply put, there is just a miniscule surface air pressure redistribution.
Climate change and weather is simply the negative response of the climate system to ANY factor that seeks to disrupt N & Zs ATE (formerly known as the Adiabatic Lapse Rate).

David
January 23, 2012 4:12 am

Other half at 3K makes the total average temp 153K. Close enough imo.
tallbloke says:
January 23, 2012 at 12:45 am
Joel Shore says:
“Trenberth’s diagram is for the actual ……
Joel, I understand it’s hard for you to get your head around this, but consider Ned’s statement that:
“the long-wave (LW) radiation in the atmosphere is a RESULT (a BYPRODUCT if you will) of the atmospheric temperature, NOT a cause for the latter! The atmospheric temperature, in turn, is a function of solar heating and pressure!
The so-called GH effect is a pressure phenomenon, not a radiative phenomenon! That’s because no back radiation can rise the Earth’s surface temperature some 133K above the corresponding no-atmosphere (gray body) temperature. AND yes, the thermal effect of our atmosphere is well over 100K as proven by NASA’s recent observations of Moon surface temperatures.”
————————
Now, The practical demonstration by Konrad Hartmann in the recent post on my site (linked above in an earlier comment) shows that higher pressure does indeed enhance the sensible atmospheric heat generated by the passage solar radiation. This is an empirical result. No conservation law is harmed during the process. Empirical reality cannot break laws of nature!
The radiation measured by AERI and other such devices is the radiation buzzing around between the molecules in the air. The air is denser near the surface, which is why we see 390 squiggles per square metre whizzing about just above the surface there. Up at 7km or thereabouts on average, where the air is less dense and there are fewer molecules per cubic cm, we see around 240 squiggles per square metre whizzing around. This fails to surprise me.
===========================
Tallbloke, this “The radiation measured by AERI and other such devices is the radiation buzzing around between the molecules in the air. The air is denser near the surface, which is why we see 390 squiggles per square metre whizzing about just above the surface there.””
I have asked about this many times, with no real answers. At what point are we measuring the radiation and T from the earth ocean mass, and the land, verses the atmospheric radiation just above it. ( And, if there is heat in non GHGs, just above the surface, we are missing that conducted heat when we only quantify T via LWIR measurements) It makes perfect sense to me that the denser the gas, due to either more atmosphere, of more gravitational force, there will be a larger heat pool capable of holding more energy per m2. It does not make sense to me that all atmospheres, regardless of composition will have the same T as long as pressure, gravity, TSI and albedo are the same. Yet I also see non GHGs as insulators, where the conducted energy is held far longer then it would be by a GHG.
I asked Joel Shore the following, but alas, he apparently did not deam my questions worthy of response. Joel, can you think of no way for surface T to conduct to non GHGs, and back conduct energy to the surface? Can surface energy conducting to non GHG stay in the atmosphere longer then radiated surface energy, 50% plus of which leaves at the speed of light? So you have some DWR which by passes non GHG, heating the surface, which via conduction then flows to insulating (incapable of radiating to space) non GHGs, staying in the atmosphere longer then radiating GHGs, warming the atmosphere, decreasing the gradient from the ground. This warmed non GHG in the atmosphere may conduct to another molecue of non GHG, staying in the atmosphere far longer then if it conducted to a GHG where over 50% of the conducted heat can now speed from the atmosphere at light speed? It appears logical that for conducted surface energy, non GHGs create more warming and are a larger heat sink then GHGs.

AusieDan
January 23, 2012 4:19 am

Having time to consider the above, I realise that I might not have made myself quite clear.
Perhaps I should have expressed myself thus:
Within reasonably wide tolerances, no matter how you change the equation for Tgb to account for your view of the applicable physics and maths, there is always a function of pressure (Nte) which when multiplied with your version of Tgb, which will come very close to the actual observed annual temperatures of at least eight solar bodies.
In other words, temperature is a function of irradiance and pressure, or at least can be calculated as such.

JinYu
January 23, 2012 4:23 am

Well, I have carefully read this and I also read some elevator speak before, which I do not think was relevant enough to take this theory down. This is not about conservation of energy. Here is another elevator try with another angle.
Consider the previous elevator speak about the gas chamber and resulting in a isothermal gas. This means the gas should have the same temperature throughout. Well, then the atmosphere should also have the same temperature all the way up, which it do not have. So that elevator speak is wrong. The gas is not isothermal, well in a smaller container it might well be but not when unlimited and restrained only by gravity.
To add to this discussion, we have the theory of the creation of galaxies. The clouds created by gravity grew bigger and bigger and temperature raises. Where do that temperature come from if not from gravity. And then there is not even a sun or a planet in the beginning, still the sun’s is lightened up because of the temperature caused from gravity alone. This is because the mass is so great and this is the reason all the shining stars is so huge compared to our planet. So gravity cause temperature to raise, simple as that.

David
January 23, 2012 4:30 am

Schrodinger’s Cat says:
January 23, 2012 at 2:29 am
The bottom line is that this work claims (1) that the SB law has been incorrectly applied to the moon and the earth and as a consequence (2) the current GHG effect underestimates the extra atmospheric warmth of the earth by about 100K. This is what we should be debating.
——————————————
Yes, I agree. But the authors also appear to be implying that all atmospheres, regardless of composition, will have the same average T as long as pressure, gravity, TSI and albedo are the same, regardless of the type of gas, oceans, water vapor (beyond albedo affects), rate of rotation, etc. They claim observational data of other planets confirm this.

richard verney
January 23, 2012 4:37 am

says:
January 22, 2012 at 7:33 pm
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Further to the point that Edim makes, The Trenberth diagram suggests that the Earth itself (in which I include the oceans) net absorbs 0.9 W per sqm.
Edim states: “….396 – 333 – 161 = -98 W/m2 (downwelling)… To complete the energy balance, non-radiative heat transfer (outgoing) is added (17 + 80 = 97)…..”
The difference between these figures is the net absorption by the Earth itself of 0.9 W per sqm.
What is the effect of this net absorption over time?
How has this affected current temperatures?
If this net absorption has been occurring since the last ice age, surely that amounts to quite some significant effect?

Bill Illis
January 23, 2012 5:01 am

We should incorporate time into all these equations.
Let’s take the moon’s equator. Just before the Sun rises, it is 95K, as if it was radiating at 4.67 joules/m2/second of energy.
The sun comes up. Now the surface rapidly warms up. But does it really?
The solar energy is coming in at 9:00 am (or in 3 days moon time) = (1362 joules/m2/second / 2 * (1-0.11)) = 606 joules/m2/second. Yet the temperature is only increasing at 0.004 joules/m2/second. (a number not much different than Earth’s equivalent).
The Sun is beaming in and getting absorbed but the rocks are only warming up as if they are absorbing a tiny fraction of that. Where is it going. Warming the surface immediately below? Being re-emitted? (No, not unless the instruments measuring the radiation are missing it). There is just a tiny increase in the emission/temperature/energy rate per second.
By noon, (7 days moon time), the surface is now up to 390K or emitting as if were 1311 joules/m2/second of energy. This is actually higher than the solar forcing now which is = (1362*(1-0.11) = 1211 joules/m2/second.
In accumulating 0.002 joules/m2/second, it is now hotter than just the solar energy coming. As the sun starts to get lower in the sky, the surface starts losing energy at the same 0.002 to 0.004 joules/m2/second and the temperature gets down to 95K just after the sun sets.
Different picture.

JJThoms
January 23, 2012 5:09 am

Please look at the spectra shown in slide 9 of:
http://www.patarnott.com/atms749/powerpoint/ch6_GP.ppt
This shows grond and TOA spectra GHG bands mising from TOA and present in upward looking ground spectra.
This shows that GHGs are changing the radiation paterns exiting the planet.
Now Please look at
http://www.patarnott.com/atms749/pdf/LongWaveIrradianceMeas.pdf
Figure 3
This shows a few days of MEASURED longwave downwards irradiance. Note that there is significant downward radiation measured at night gtreater than 260W/sq metre.
GHGs can only be the source of this since there is insignificant LW IR from N2 and O2
How can conduction and no significant GHG radiation explain these measured values.
Forget the guff about black body/grey body/etc forget lapse rate there is measured 360W/sq metre during the day and 260W/sq metre during the night hitting Southern Great Plains in Oklahoma,
This is radiation not conduction. If you suggest that conduction is the source of the overtemperature above non atmosphered BB then there is a problem with total radiation received.
Please help my confusion

tallbloke
January 23, 2012 5:09 am

tallbloke says:
January 23, 2012 at 12:45 am …
Doug Hoyt has just reminded me that his pyrheliometry doesn’t measure near IR but visible spectrum solar radiation.

dlb
January 23, 2012 5:13 am

N & Z are way out with their lunar surface temperatures. The Apollo programme measured lunar temperatures a metre down and found them to be fairly constant over a lunar day in the order of 253 to 255K depending on the landing site. See (Nagihara et al 2010). Which is close enough for me to the blackbody figure for a nongreenhouse planet.
You can do the same on earth, bury a thermometer a meter down and it will average out diurnal variations, bury it even deeper and it will average out seasonal differences.

Joel Shore
January 23, 2012 5:18 am

Ned Nikolov says:

I’d like to make a point to those of you, who have no formal training in physical science. You should be careful about how strongly you feel about certain science aspects of this new theory.

Science is like any other field – it takes a formal education and many years of practice to reach proficiency.

Ned: However, by the same token, I would say that if you are going to try to change the paradigm in a field, it is imperative that you first take the time to understand the field and the current paradigm first. Even someone as brilliant as Einstein did this before embarking on his own paradigm-changing work.
By contrast, it is quite clear that you guys haven’t done this and this and as a result you have made several dramatic errors:
(1) Proposing a “theory” that can’t even be shown to satisfy conservation of energy.
(2) Misapplying conservation of energy to make the incorrect claim that the average temperature of a planet won’t change if, for example, you go from a non-rotating to a rotating case.
(3) Putting convection into a simple radiative model of the greenhouse effect incorrectly (so that the temperature profile with altitude is driven to an isothermal profile when the actual profile should be an adiabatic lapse rate profile) and then marveling that this gets rid of the radiative greenhouse effect, a fact that you could have read about in many textbooks on the subject.
You criticize Willis Eschenbach for his errors; however, his belief that you might have a mistake in your mathematical calculation is a relatively modest error compared to the large conceptual errors that you have made and that Willis has correctly pointed out to you.

January 23, 2012 5:21 am

If you understand that the Stefan-Boltzmann (SB) law was originally derived from other known laws in 1879 on the basis of experimental measurements made by John Tyndall and was derived from theoretical considerations, using thermodynamics, by Ludwig Boltzmann (1844-1906) in 1884. as well as ohm’s law (See; Nonlinear correction to Ohm’s law derived from Boltzmann’s equation.), and other references, (which, in my opinion ohm’s law is one of the best diagnostic tools there is, if not the best).
The (SB) law seems incomplete and doesn’t provide any explanation about the distribution of energy as a function of frequency and leaves a theoretical infinitive within the equation. And therefore the “black body” theoretical object that absorbs 100% of the radiation that hits it seems to me as being too far from reality, It can be compared to absolute zero, at which entropy reaches its minimum value, too augmented from reality to be used as a practical tool, even tho it appears theoretically sound.
I say Avoid the rabbit holes and work on a reference frame, this is one of the reasons I like the Ned Nikolov and Karl Zeller paper “Unified Theory of Climate” that, and the bonus of the introduction of proper terminology “Atmospheric Thermal Effect (ATE)” in place of the term “Greenhouse Effect” (GE) as it is “(b) inherently misleading due to the fact that the free atmosphere, imposing no restriction on convective cooling, does not really work as a closed greenhouse; (b) ATE accurately coveys the physical essence of the phenomenon, which is the temperature boost at the surface due to the presence of atmosphere”…
Just for fun, how would an analogy of “Unified Theory of Climate” compared to a circuit look?
here’s what I think it would look like using ohm’s law. (needs a bit of work). 🙂
Governing:
(g) Gravity, (M) Mass, (t) Time, (D) Distance
Primary:
(P) Wattage or power P = Temperature, energy from the sun i.e transferred one Joule per second is one Watt.
(E or V) Voltage or volts = Potential difference of energy between the SUN and a planets surface through a body of Resistance (atmosphere, oceans etc…)
(I) Amperage or current I = pressure, (force per unit area) pressure exerted anywhere.
(R) Resistivity or ohms Ω = composition, material, volume resistivity, (including the reciprocal, conductivity, sigma “mho”?)
Secondary:
R= impedance, impedance (Z) varies with frequency! Four electrical quantities determine the impedance of a circuit: resistance (R), capacitance (C), inductance (L) and frequency (f). Weather, Life, geographic (erosion etc..), chemical ?
* Resistance R (the part which is constant regardless of frequency)
* Reactance X (the part which varies with frequency due to capacitance and inductance)

Edim
January 23, 2012 5:33 am

George E. Smith; says:
“I don’t disagree with that assertion, but I fail to see how the ideal gas law applies to an open system where the volume, the Temperature, and the pressure are all varying quantities.”
George, ideal gas law is simply an equation of state for ideal gases. If the IGL is not accurate enough for the gas in question, there are equations of state for real gases. They all look like this:
F(p,ρ,T) = 0.
If any 2 of the 3 state variables is fixed (known), the third one is fixed too and can only have a value according to the equation of state. The IGL argument is not a process nor an energy balance argument – it’s simply a state variables argument. The equation of state applies to any “point” of the gas. If you know the pressure and density at some point (M(x,y,z,t)), you can calculate the temperature. That’s all, I think.

Joel Shore
January 23, 2012 5:35 am

kzeller says:

The equations we have given you bloggers are simple and they work. Why aren’t you all trying to disprove our MIRACLE equation rather than banging your heads against walls trying to prove or disprove who knows what and exclaiming you have problems with this or that? The question is how can we possibly have done it – there is no question that our equations work – if you haven’t verified that it works, why haven’t you?

It is not a “miracle” to fit 8 pieces of data with a functional form that you chose that has 4 free parameters (plus some possible additional freedom from your choice of how to compute T_gb and your choice of which data to believe for surface temperatures and pressures on the 8 celestial bodies, especially since the average temperature for an airless body is a poorly-defined quantity that depends strongly on how thick a surface layer you look at).
And, I have verified that it works. However, I have also found that I can change the surface temperature data points for the 3 bodies that have a significant radiative greenhouse effect by replacing their average temperature by the traditionally-determined value of T_sb instead (e.g., 255 K for Earth), hence essentially removing the radiative greenhouse effect entirely. The data is then “squirrellier” since Venus now has a small value of N_TE than Earth or Titan, but nonetheless your functional form does a good job of fitting it! I imagine I might be able to do even better if I “shopped around” for another functional form.
So, in other words, your functional form can fit data for 8 bodies that have no significant radiative greenhouse effect at all (5 of them because they never did and 3 of them because I have removed the effect). Why can it do this?
(1) Because it has lots of free parameters.
(2) Because there are various reasons why we do expect a general positive correlation between pressure and average temperature. The most important of these (given your definition of T_sb) is simply that a planet with more atmosphere will have a more uniform temperature distribution and this alone explains most of the rise in average temperature. Other lesser factors are that the radiative greenhouse effect also tends to be positively correlated with surface pressure both because an atmosphere has to have at least some significant pressure to have a significant quantity of greenhouse gases and another being that pressure causes broadening of the absorption bands of the greenhouse gases.
It would be nice if you stopped claiming that we haven’t addressed this issue of your “miracle” fit and actually addressed our explanations of it.

January 23, 2012 5:44 am

tallbloke: “Thanks for helping me understand the way the substitution works in the integral. I need to be able to visualise those kinds of maths puzzles in order to understand them post-accident, and your explanation did it for me. Geometry rules!”
You’re welcome. And I can identify with the math-skills impairment, although age is the culprit in my case.
Just to be clear: Although I (belatedly) recognize that Equation 5 works, I don’t think Equation 6 does; unlike solar radiation, background radiation is isotropic. Numerically this is de minimis, but the authors’ repeating that equation without explanation in this write-up after having had the problem brought to their attention in connection with the poster makes me question how much care they apply to their work.
Among the other serious reservations I have, however, this is just a minor point. For reasons among which I gave some at your site, I think that these authors are not the ones to explain why, as I suspect but can come nowhere near to proving, the greenhouse effect is virtually insensitive to greenhouse-gas concentration beyond a low level.

Joel Shore
January 23, 2012 6:09 am

tallbloke says:

The radiation measured by AERI and other such devices is the radiation buzzing around between the molecules in the air. The air is denser near the surface, which is why we see 390 squiggles per square metre whizzing about just above the surface there. Up at 7km or thereabouts on average, where the air is less dense and there are fewer molecules per cubic cm, we see around 240 squiggles per square metre whizzing around. This fails to surprise me.

A shorter statement would have been for you to simply say, “I have no idea what radiation is.” Electromagnetic radiation exists even in a vacuum…It has nothing to do with the kinetic energy of the molecules of air where the radiation happens to be passing through.

Joel Shore
January 23, 2012 6:13 am

tallbloke says:

Now, The practical demonstration by Konrad Hartmann in the recent post on my site (linked above in an earlier comment) shows that higher pressure does indeed enhance the sensible atmospheric heat generated by the passage solar radiation. This is an empirical result. No conservation law is harmed during the process. Empirical reality cannot break laws of nature!

Sorry…but one poorly conceived and carried out experiment does not overturn more than a century’s worth of physics even when it tells you what you want to believe. Konrad hasn’t even tried to figure out how his data, even if correct, could be compatible with well-understood physics.
It is really bizarre what you guys seem to think constitutes evidence!

January 23, 2012 6:17 am

George Smith. says “So unless the authors can show a “cause and effect” linkage bewteen the atmospheric pressure, and the average surface Temperature; the “Unified” stature of their theory remains unconvincing.”
Like most of the posters here George, a well educated and erudite fellow misses the point by a country mile.
You must read the papers first. If you do so you will see that the relationship between pressure and temperature enables the authors to calculate planetary surface temperature from atmospheric pressure and solar irradiance alone and it does not seem to matter what the atmosphere is composed of. That is something that Joel and Willis must consider.
Temperature also changes at the surface (without change in pressure) due to change in albedo, i.e. cloud cover. The authors have told us that they think that it is this process that accounts for recent climate change on Earth.
Posters on this thread have been quick to condemn the theory without reading the work, without understanding the maths and without considering the fact that, the denser the atmosphere, the more energy it will absorb, store and transmit (to a thermometer).
Take the case to its logical extreme. Conduction is the chief means of surface cooling when a heated object is contacted by a dry object. Not until you touch something do you begin to perceive just how hot it is. Can you touch something with a vacuum? The rate of transfer of energy to an object and the amount of energy stored by the touching object is dependent in the first instance on its density, the number of molecules in a given volume.
Its really that simple.The atmosphere is the touching object. The planetary surface is the object being touched. At Tallblokes Konrad Hartmann describes an experiment that confirms that simple observation. And, if its a gas, it does not matter what the touching object is composed of.
The treatment that the authors have received on this thread is one of the saddest things that I have witnessed on this forum.
There is only so much that you can teach a parrot. And a parrot with an ego is a very poor learner.
I had to smile when I read this from KZeller: “Why are you all trying to include so-called GH gases; ocean modulations; re-radiations; crusts, your grandma’s bad breath and so on ad nauseam? These are not part of our theory.”
This is a very careful and methodical piece of work based on a good understanding of the simplest physical principles.

Kev-in-Uk
January 23, 2012 6:22 am

richard verney says:
January 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm
……..
The calculations are based on the whole surface area, yes? so, if a rotating planet gets an even smattering of incident radiation, it then radiates evenly too. A static body having all its incident radiation on one side will simply be hotter and radiating more (on that side) to compensate. Like I said, I cannot see how a rotating planet can be ‘warmer’ as Roger suggested. Incident radiation is X, and outgoing radiation is Y. Once equilibrium is reached, either on a static or rotating body – the equivalent average temps should be the same IMO? Thats why I queried Tallblokes comment – on simple energy conservation rules (and the no atmosphere criteria), they must be equal? Yes, the ‘appearance’ of one constantly heated side will be hotter than the non heated side, but the averaging of the surface temp for the sphere should be the same, should it not?

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