By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Responses to my post of December 28 about climate sensitivity have been particularly interesting. This further posting answers some of the feedback.
My earlier posting explained how the textbooks establish that if albedo and insolation were held constant but all greenhouse gases were removed from the air the Earth’s surface temperature would be 255 K. Since today’s temperature is 288 K, the presence as opposed to absence of all the greenhouse gases – including H2O, CO2, CH4, N2O and stratospheric O3 – causes 33 K warming.
Kiehl and Trenberth say that the interval of total forcing from the five main greenhouse gases is 101[86, 125] Watts per square meter. Since just about all temperature feedbacks since the dawn of the Earth have acted by now, the post-feedback or equilibrium system climate sensitivity parameter is 33 K divided by the forcing interval – namely 0.33[0.27, 0.39] Kelvin per Watt per square meter.
Multiplying the system sensitivity parameter interval by any given radiative forcing yields the corresponding equilibrium temperature change. The IPCC takes the forcing from a doubling of CO2 concentration as 3.7 Watts per square meter, so the corresponding warming – the system climate sensitivity – is 1.2[1.0, 1.4] K, or about one-third of the IPCC’s 3.3[2.0, 4.5] K.
I also demonstrated that the officially-estimated 2 Watts per square meter of radiative forcings and consequent manmade temperature changes of 0.4-0.8 K since 1750 indicated a transient industrial-era sensitivity of 1.1[0.7, 1.5] K, very much in line with the independently-determined system sensitivity.
Accordingly. transient and equilibrium sensitivities are so close to one another that temperature feedbacks – additional forcings that arise purely because temperature has changed in response to initial or base forcings – are very likely to be net-zero.
Indeed, with net-zero feedbacks the IPCC’s transient-sensitivity parameter is 0.31 Kelvin per Watt per square meter, close to the 0.33 that I had derived as the system equilibrium or post-feedback parameter.
I concluded that climate sensitivity to the doubling of CO2 concentration expected this century is low enough to be harmless.
One regular troll – one can tell he is a troll by his silly hate-speech about how I “continue to fool yourself and others” – attempted to say that Kiehl and Trenberth’s 86-125 Watts per square meter of total forcing from the presence of the top five greenhouse gases included the feedbacks consequent upon the forcing, asserting, without evidence, that I (and by implication the two authors) was confusing forcings and feedbacks.
No: Kiehl and Trenberth are quite specific in their paper: “We calculate the longwave radiative forcing of a given gas by sequentially removing atmospheric absorbers from the radiation model. We perform these calculations for clear and cloudy sky conditions to illustrate the role of clouds to a given absorber for the total radiative forcing. Table 3 lists the individual contribution of each absorber to the total clear-sky [and cloudy-sky] radiative forcing.” Forcing, not feedback. Indeed, the word “feedback” does not occur even once in Kiehl & Trenberth’s paper.
In particular, the troll thought we were treating the water-vapor feedback as though it were a forcing. We were not, of course, but let us pretend for a moment that we were. If we now add CO2 to the atmospheric mix and disturb what the IPCC assumes to have been a prior climatic equilibrium, then by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation the space occupied by the atmosphere is capable of holding near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms. This – to the extent that it occurred – would indeed be a feedback.
However, as Paltridge et al. (2009) have demonstrated, it is not clear that the water vapor feedback is anything like as strongly positive as the IPCC would like us to believe. Below the mid-troposphere, additional water vapor makes very little difference because its principal absorption bands are largely saturated. Above it, the additional water vapor tends to subside harmlessly to lower altitudes, again making very little difference to temperature. The authors conclude that feedbacks are somewhat net-negative, a conclusion supported by measurements given in papers such as Lindzen & Choi (2009, 2010), Spencer & Braswell (2010, 2011), and Shaviv (2011).
It is also worth recalling that Solomon et al. (2009) say equilibrium will not be reached for up to 3000 years after we perturb the climate. If so, it is only the transient climate change (one-third of the IPCC’s ’quilibrium estimate) that will occur in our lifetime and in that of our grandchildren. Whichever way you stack it, manmade warming in our own era will be small and, therefore, harmless.
A true-believer at the recent Los Alamos quinquennial climate conference at Santa Fe asked me, in a horrified voice, whether I was really willing to allow our grandchildren to pay for the consequences of our folly in emitting so much CO2. Since the warming we shall cause will be small and may well prove to be beneficial, one hopes future generations will be grateful to us.
Besides, as President Klaus of the Czech Republic has wisely pointed out, if we damage our grandchildren’s inheritance by blowing it on useless windmills, mercury-filled light-bulbs, solar panels, and a gallimaufry of suchlike costly, wasteful, environment-destroying fashion statements, our heirs will certainly not thank us.
Mr. Wingo and others wonder whether it is appropriate to assume that the sum of various different fourth powers of temperature over the entire surface of the Earth will be equal to the fourth power of the global temperature as determined by the fundamental equation of radiative transfer. By zonal calculation on several hundred zones of equal height and hence of equal spherical-surface area, making due allowance for the solar azimuth angle applicable to each zone, I have determined that the equation does indeed provide a very-nearly-accurate mean surface temperature, varying from the sum of the zonal means by just 0.5 K in total. In mathematical terms, the Holder inequality is in this instance near-vanishingly small.
Dr. Nikolov, however, considers that the textbooks and the literature are wrong in this respect: but I have deliberately confined my analysis to textbook methods and “mainstream-science” data precisely so as to minimize the scope for any disagreement on the part of those who – until now – have gone along with the IPCC’s assertion that climate sensitivity is high enough to be dangerous. Deploying their own methods and drawing proper conclusions from them is more likely to lead them to rethink their position than attempting to reinvent the wheel.
Mr. Martin asks whether I’d be willing to apply my calculations to Venus. However, I do not share the view of Al Gore, Dr. Nikolov, or Mr. Huffman that Venus is likely to give us the answers we need about climate sensitivity on Earth. A brief critique of Mr. Huffman’s analysis of the Venusian atmospheric soup and its implications for climate sensitivity is at Jo Nova’s ever-fragrant and always-eloquent website.
Brian H asks whether Dr. Nikolov is right in his finding that, for several astronomical bodies [including Venus] all that matters in the determination of surface temperature is the mass of the atmospheric overburden. Since I am not yet content that Dr. Nikolov is right in concluding that the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature is 100 K less than the 255 K given in the textbooks, I am disinclined to enquire further into his theory until this rather large discrepancy is resolved.
Rosco is surprised by the notion of dividing the incoming solar irradiance by 4 to determine the Wattage per square meter of the Earth’s surface. I have taken this textbook step because the Earth intercepts a disk-sized area of insolation, which must be distributed over the rotating spherical surface, and the ratio of the surface area of a disk to that of a sphere of equal radius is 1:4.
Other commenters have asked whether the fact that the characteristic-emission sphere has a greater surface area than the Earth makes a difference. No, it doesn’t, because the ratio of the surface areas of disk and sphere is 1:4 regardless of the radius and hence surface area of the sphere.
Rosco also cites Kiehl and Trenberth’s notion that the radiation absorbed and emitted at the Earth’s surface is 390 Watts per square meter. The two authors indicate, in effect, that they derived that value by multiplying the fourth power of the Earth’s mean surface temperature of 288 K by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (0.0000000567 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power).
If Kiehl & Trenberth were right to assume that a strict Stefan-Boltzmann relation holds at the surface in this way, then we might legitimately point out that the pre-feedback climate-sensitivity parameter – the first differential of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the above values for surface radiative flux and temperature – would be just 288/(390 x 4) = 0.18 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. If so, even if we were to assume the IPCC’s implicit central estimate of strongly net-positive feedbacks at 2.1 Watts per square meter per Kelvin the equilibrium climate sensitivity to a CO2 doubling would be 3.7 x 0.18 / (1 – 2.1 x 0.18) = 1.1 K. And where have we seen that value before?
In all this, of course, I do not warrant any of the IPCC’s or Kiehl and Trenberth’s or the textbooks’ methods or data or results as correct: that would be well above my pay-grade. However, as Mr. Fernley-Jones has correctly noticed, I am quite happy to demonstrate that if their methods and values are correct then climate sensitivity – whichever way one does the calculation – is about one-third of what they would like us to believe it is.
All the contributors – even the trolls – have greatly helped me in clarifying what is in essence a simple but not simpliste argument. To those who have wanted to complicate the argument in various ways, I say that, as the splendid Willis Eschenbach has pointed out before in this column, one should keep firmly in mind the distinction between first-order effects that definitely change the outcome, second-order effects that may or may not change it but won’t change it much, and third-order effects that definitely won’t change it enough to make a difference. One should ruthlessly exclude third-order effects, however superficially interesting.
Given that the IPCC seems to be exaggerating climate sensitivity threefold, only the largest first-order influences are going to make a significant difference to the calculation. And it is the official or textbook treatment of these influences that I have used throughout.
My New Year’s resolution is to write a short book about the climate question, in which the outcome of the discussions here will be presented. The book will say that climate sensitivity is low; that, even if it were as high as the IPCC wants us to think, it would be at least an order of magnitude cheaper to adapt to the consequences of any warming that may occur than to try, Canute-like, to prevent it; that there are multiple lines of evidence for systematic and connected corruption and fraud on the part of the surprisingly small clique of politically-motivated “scientists” who have fabricated and driven the now-failing climate scare; and that too many who ought to know better have looked the other way as their academic, scientific, political, or journalistic colleagues have perpetrated and perpetuated their shoddy frauds, because silence in the face of official mendacity is socially convenient, politically expedient, and, above all, financially profitable.
The final chapter will add that there is a real danger that the UN, using advisors from the European Union, will succeed in exploiting the fraudulent science peddled by the climate/environment axis as a Trojan horse to extinguish democracy in those countries which, unlike the nations of Europe, are still fortunate enough to have it; that the world’s freedom is consequently at immediate and grave risk from the vaunting ambition of a grasping, talent-free, scientifically-illiterate ruling elite of world-government wannabes everywhere; but that – as the recent history of the bureaucratic-centralist and now-failed EU has demonstrated – the power-mad adidacts are doomed, and they will be brought low by the ineluctable futility of their attempts to tinker with the laws of physics and of economics.
The army of light and truth, however few we be, will quietly triumph over the forces of darkness in the end: for, whether they like it or not, the unalterable truth cannot indefinitely be confused, concealed, or contradicted. We did not make the laws of science: therefore, it is beyond our power to repeal them.
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It is correct that the rate at which the Earth’s SURFACE loses heat goes strictly up, but the surface is NOT where most of the thermal IR is emitted to space.
That is rather high up in the atmosphere, which can be seen by comparing the emission to space with the Planck distribution of thermal emission from the surface (here for example).
In your graph, that seems is measuring mostly the amount energy coming from the surface or reflected from clouds, and seems like a vast majority is reflected sunlight- as it’s similar Planck curve as sunlight. There huge bites out this Planck curve. But also there huge chunks of solar energy missing before the sunlight can reach the earth’s surface.
And one could expect that the section of IR which which is resulting all the solar energy which has absorbed and later radiated would be a Planck curve of the temperature of the earth surface or the spectrum IR emitted from greenhouse gases. And it seems the best time to measure this would be at nite.
Is the any measurement of that spectrum IR radiation and can tell where it is coming from- such as top of atmosphere, or surface. And how much energy this is quantitatively?
Can I assume the amount energy emitted from greenhouse gases into space would similar to what is called DLR, or back radiation which is radiated to earth surface. Has this been measured from high altitude balloons or space?
David Socrates says, December 30, 2011 at 11:57 pm : “I agree completly with the the general point you are making. However you have made a significant error in your explanation.
The lapse rate is not created by a “fall in gravitational field” (which would be completly negligible) but by a fall in pressurewith height due to the progressive reduction in the mass of atmosphere above.”
David,
One may think of it in terms of pressure and the weight of the atmosphere, but that doesn’t make things clearer (in my view). For the adiabatic lapse rate, a packet of gas higher in the atmosphere has a lower kinetic energy due to its conversion to gravitational potential energy. The loss of kinetic energy for the packet of randomly moving gas molecules is the loss of temperature. That’s why the temperature falls off linearly. The difference in temperature between some altitude and the surface is exactly equal to the amount of kinetic energy gained by an object (i.e., a molecule) in free fall. The other properties of the gas, such as lower density and pressure, follow directly from this gravitational effect of lower temperature.
Hi Joel,
I only did some elemmentary physics at high school and that was a long time ago so let’s see if I’m getting this right:
Lord Monckton says that, when we go from a world without GHGs to the one we have now, the effect of the corresponding ~101 W/m2, including forcings and feedbacks, is ~33K. Therefore, the effect of a doubling of CO2 (~3.7 W/m2), including forcing and feedbacks, would be ~1.2K.
You say that this is wrong because part of the ~101 W/m2 that we are adding to the atmosphere to get at the current situation is in fact a feedback. In other words, we could arrive at the same ~101 W/m2 by simply adding a fraction of the GHGs we now have (the non-condensable ones) and letting feedbacks operate to get the water vapour increase at its current level.
If my summary of the debate above is correct, I see merit in your argument (although you would do better without all that derogative language) and would like to see how LM or others reply to it, put in these terms. Perhaps they have already done so but I haven’t been able to grasp their logic.
In any case, I remain quite skeptical about the IPCC central value of the climate sensitivity. I do believe that the instrumental temperature record imposes quite a tight limit on this value, unless one decides to believe in a huge impact of aerosols that is simply not observed in reality. But that is another matter and I’ve found this dicussion very illuminating.
Best regards,
Mikel
Mikel says:
Yes, you have that right. Sorry about what you perceive to be derogatory language, but it becomes rather frustrating when one presents an argument again and again, and is met with no serious argument in response but rather something to the effect of “Kiehl and Trenberth never use the word ‘forcings’ so therefore I am right”.
Unfortunately, not very tight at all, given the uncertainties in the aerosol forcing, the difference between transient and equilibrium sensitivity, and internal variability of the climate system … And also, not centered around low sensitivities if one does the calculations using the best estimates available and not confusing equilibrium and transient sensitivities, etc.
I think the instrumental temperature record does make very high sensitivities (much above the top of the IPCC likely range) seem pretty unlikely, given that they would seem to require a quite fortuitous cancellation between greenhouse and aerosol effects. Such cancellation is not impossible…but it is reasonable to believe that it is rather unlikely.
Joel Shore says:
January 3, 2012 at 7:58 am
@tallbloke: Sorry…My previous post had the wrong link in it to my response. Here it is: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/29/unified-theory-of-climate/#comment-851644
Joel, that isn’t a reply to what I wrote, it your self repetition of your belief to yourself.
I’m giving up on you for now.
tallbloke says:
Fine with me! I’ll tell you: honestly, If I ever need to convince a colleague in physics that the AGW skeptic movement is based on pseudoscientific nonsense, I would be happy to give them the link to your website! If nothing else, they’ll get a good laugh out of it!
R. Gates says:
December 31, 2011 at 3:39 pm
____
I would simply direct those who question this estimate to the actual measurements and science, and a few an excellent sources can be found at:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v344/n6266/abs/344529a0.html
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1943/1891.full
http://scienceofdoom.com/2009/11/28/co2-an-insignificant-trace-gas-part-one/
I stand quite solidly behind my generously conservative estimate of 25% of the 33C warming being related to CO2– and this didn’t really even address the 15 micron issue (where earth’s LW peaks right where CO2′s LW is strongest, and water vapor is much weaker) nor the non-condensing nature of CO2 and its relative stability when compared to water vapor in the atmosphere. Quite simply- take away the CO2 from the atmosphere and we’d be back to an ice planet in fairly short order, such that the 25% conservative estimate of the contribution to the 33C of warming does not even begin to indicate the full measure and value of the stability that CO2 brings to temperatures from its non-condensing nature.
===========
What the heck is that supposed to mean? I’ve asked before, it’s simply repeated in reply or I’m sent on wild goose chases where it’s simply repeated or not even mentioned. Does anyone here have any idea of what this means?:
I’ve just been reading Tyndall on Faraday, so am even more peeved at seeing this repeated without any explanation for what it means in whole or in any of its parts.
” such that the 25% conservative estimate of the contribution to the 33C of warming does not even begin to indicate the full measure and value of the stability that CO2 brings to temperatures from its non-condensing nature.”
What does it mean? Where is the measure and value of stability of non-condensing gases on temperatures given?
>>
Robert Brown says:
January 2, 2012 at 8:21 am
Are there candidates for this sort of a gun? Sure. Albedo, for one. 1% changes in (absolute) albedo can modulate temperature by roughly 1K.
<<
I agree. I modeled Kiehl and Trenberth 1997’s energy model. The KT97 model belongs to a class of climate models known as zero-dimension models. They are also called planet average climate models. If you allow this model to warm the surface by increasing GHG’s, the atmosphere warms faster–from 120% to 160% faster than the surface depending on how you treat latent and sensible heat fluxes.
Unfortunately, the atmosphere is only warming at 70% to 90% of the surface.
You get the correct atmospheric warming if you just alter the planet albedo. That means that GHG’s are playing no part in the current surface warming–at least according to my KT97 based model.
Jim
Myrrh says:
January 3, 2012 at 5:37 pm
“What the heck is that supposed to mean?”
R.Gates says
“Quite simply- take away the CO2 from the atmosphere and we’d be back to an ice planet in fairly short order, such that the 25% conservative estimate of the contribution to the 33C of warming does not even begin to indicate the full measure and value of the stability that CO2 brings to temperatures from its non-condensing nature.”
That suggests to me that our boy Gates may finally be coming to his senses and recognizing the overwhelmingly positive contribution of CO2 to our planet. Who knows, with a little encouragement he may take off his Darth Vader helmet and return entirely to the Light side of the Force.
Dave Wendt says:
Everybody, except for AGW skeptics, believes that CO2 serves a vital role in making the planet’s temperature habitable. And, in fact, it is the concepts learned from this that allow us to extrapolate to what is likely to happen when we increase CO2 levels further.
It is not as simple as CO2 = GOOD or CO2 = BAD. After all, water is vital for you to survive but that does not mean you would want to be thrown into a 10 ft deep pool of it with a cement block tied to your feet. (And, perhaps a bit better analogy is the people who has died during marathons by hydrating too much: http://www.succeedscaps.com/overhydration.html )
Joel Shore says:
“Everybody, except for AGW skeptics, believes that CO2 serves a vital role in making the planet’s temperature habitable.”
Fool. Does he really believe that?
“Christopher Monckton of Brenchley states:
Kiehl and Trenberth say that the interval of total forcing from the five main greenhouse gases is 101[86, 125] Watts per square meter. Since just about all temperature feedbacks since the dawn of the Earth have acted by now, the post-feedback or equilibrium system climate sensitivity parameter is 33 K divided by the forcing interval – namely 0.33[0.27, 0.39] Kelvin per Watt per square meter.
”
Consider this instead:
Surface T causes an average surface emission of 390 W/m^2
Incoming solar has about 239 W/m^2 absorbed into the Earth system (surface +atmosphere).
For balance the incoming must equal the outgoing and that means it is close to 239 W/m^2 actually escaping to space. Therefore we have 390-239 = 151 W/m^2 of actual blockage, not just 5 atmospheric gases with 101 W/m^2 per K&T.
This 151W/m^2 includes the ghg gases, clouds, aerosols, particulates etc. – everything in the atmosphere that is preventing the surface radiation amount from escaping. This is totally compatible with the ghgs causing 101 W/m^2 of absorption.
Note that the 33 deg C rise is due to all factors, not just 5 ghgs. The result is 33/151 = 0.218 deg C rise per W/m^2 increase, making it less than a simple radiative estimate based upon the fact that an escaping 1 W/m^2 due to an increase in surface T must compensate for the fact that less than 2/3 of the surface emission escapes to space = 239/390 = 61%. The radiative only estimate comes out to 0.3 deg C rise per W/m^2. This means that there is a net negative feedback present in the atmosphere.
Note too that while all existing feedbacks are accounted for, it does not include additional feedbacks due to a rise in temperature that increase the total W/m^2. However, at 0.218 deg C rise per W/m^2, one can check out the ipcc’s prime feedback factor – h2o vapor – and determine the effect caused by a 0.2 deg C rise in temperature using the standard relative humidity = constant assumption and the increase in h2o vapor present for a temperature increase. Suffice to say its effect is far smaller than a whole 1 W/m^2 and its contribution to increased T is only a small fraction of 0.218 deg C.
cba says:
The only feedback that I know of that does not fall into this latter category is the lapse rate feedback, a negative feedback. Can you think of any other one?
So, really, a simpler way of putting it is that the only feedback that you have included as a feedback is the one known negative feedback. The positive ones (water vapor, ice albedo) and the one that is of unknown sign (clouds) are not included.
Smokey says:
So, you believe that? I thought you would believe that the effect of CO2 is too small to make the difference between the current state of the planet and the planet being significantly enough colder that it is essentially uninhabitable (or at least a very, very different place to inhabit)!
Joel
My word, you are busy on the various threads the last few days. A happy new year to you
Tonyb
Hi, Tonyb. What can I say, the New Year, like a full moon, seems to have brought out a lot of craziness that needs to be dispelled!
Happy New Year to you too!
Joel
“Joel Shore says:
January 4, 2012 at 1:56 pm
cba says:
Note too that while all existing feedbacks are accounted for, it does not include additional feedbacks due to a rise in temperature that increase the total W/m^2.
The only feedback that I know of that does not fall into this latter category is the lapse rate feedback, a negative feedback. Can you think of any other one?
So, really, a simpler way of putting it is that the only feedback that you have included as a feedback is the one known negative feedback. The positive ones (water vapor, ice albedo) and the one that is of unknown sign (clouds) are not included.
”
Joel,
No, once a feedback or a forcing happens, it changes the temperature. My sensitivity value is the sensitivity to the planet for a change of 1 W/m^2. That includes both some initial forcing plus whatever feedbacks occur due to a rise in T caused by the 1w/m^2 rise. Doubling the co2 value results in an increase blocking of 3.7W/m^2 – assuming the tropopause as the measuring point. If you go far higher in the atmosphere, that value drops closer to 2.7W/m^2 assuming the distribution of the co2 spreads to 70km and beyond. This will account for about 0.8 deg C rise in T to overcome the additional absorption. NOTE: this doesn’t include your beloved feedbacks that will happen when there is an increase of T= 0.8 + ft deg C caused by the 3.7 + fb W/m^2 where ft is the feedback T increase and fb is the feedback absorbed power. HOWEVER, thanks to the ipcc politicians, we know that h2o vapor feedback is by far the largest contributor and we know from meteorology that water vapor tends to maintain a constant RH.
From this, we can get a new value for absolute humidity given a total change in temperature T. As memory serves me, a 5 deg C change in T causes a 30% change in h2o vapor content assuming RH stays constant. For a 2 deg C change in T, that value drops to a 13% change in h2o vapor content again assuming constant RH. Plugging these values into a 1-d model one gets a 3.2 W/m^2 increase for h2o vapor blocking at the tropopause (and at 70km) and a meager 1.5 W/m^2 contribution from a 13% increase caused by a 2 deg C rise for T. 3.7+1.5 = 5.2 W/m^2 forcing + primary feedback assuming a 2 deg C rise total in T. Note this is only sufficient to cause a 1.13 deg C rise and that leaves 0.87 deg C unaccounted for. That’s an additional 4 W/m^2 of feedbacks above and beyond the ipcc’s professed primary feedback of h2o vapor.
Also, as previously mentioned, that little problem is solved by lacis and hansen by assuming cloud cover is at its maximum and that a slight warming will result in significantly reduced cloud cover that provides the missing W/m^2 feedback. Of course the ipcc can’t figure out if the cloud cover variation will result in positive or negative feedback.
So much for settled science, science, politics, and Catastrophic AGW.
cba says:
I really can’t make heads-or-tails out of your statements here. They almost seem contradictory. My question to you is simple: Do you now agree that your estimate of the climate sensitivity of 0.8 C per CO2 doubling does not include any feedbacks that come about because of the temperature rise (but does include the so-called “lapse rate feedback”, which is really the odd-man-out as far as feedbacks is concerned)? If not, exactly why do you disagree?
I really don’t feel like wading through your calculation of the water vapor feedback…So, I’ll just ask you to cut to the chase: Are you saying the water vapor feedback is less than the IPCC says it is?
I do agree that to get the central estimate for the IPCC climate sensitivity requires the cloud feedback to be somewhat positive. [According to the IPCC AR4, essentially all of the other feedbacks except the cloud feedback gets you to the bottom end of the IPCC likely range, i.e., to ~2 C (the specific value they quote being 1.9 C).] I think your description of what they are saying clouds do, however, is too simplistic. In fact, the feedback involves both high clouds and low clouds…not simply what the total cloud fraction does…and do you have any evidence that they are assuming that the cloud cover is a maximum in the current state. (Assuming that the cloud cover in net does reduce when you warm is not the same thing as saying the current cloud cover is at a maximum.)
The 0.8 rise due to the co2 is the portion of the T rise that you would call the forcing. You’ll have to ‘wade’ through the details concerning the h2o vapor feedback to see what the “primary” feedback contribution is or isn’t.
Well, if dropping the temperature decreases cloud cover, (due to lack of h2o vapor available to form clouds) and if lacis and hansen’s assumption is correct in that if the temperature rises, the cloud cover will decrease and cause positive feedback that enhances the warming, it must be that we are at a maximum and the value cannot be greater than what it is now. The evidence is their claim that the cloud cover reduction is their amplification factor. Whether they figured it out or not that this means we’re at the maximum value is not something I know although I would expect that if they did know, they’d be in full back peddling mode. Then again, maybe they were hoping that no one would notice.
As for ipcc’s 1.9 deg C value, how many w/m^2 do they say exist in the feedback column and how much of it is due to the 3.7 W/m^2 of the co2 forcing?
Note that you’ll probably need the value 8.2 W/m^2 additional absorption for a doubling value for h2o vapor to go along with the 3.7 W/m^2 additional absorption for a doubling of co2.