Feedback about feedbacks and suchlike fooleries

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Responses to my post of December 28 about climate sensitivity have been particularly interesting. This further posting answers some of the feedback.

My earlier posting explained how the textbooks establish that if albedo and insolation were held constant but all greenhouse gases were removed from the air the Earth’s surface temperature would be 255 K. Since today’s temperature is 288 K, the presence as opposed to absence of all the greenhouse gases – including H2O, CO2, CH4, N2O and stratospheric O3 – causes 33 K warming.

Kiehl and Trenberth say that the interval of total forcing from the five main greenhouse gases is 101[86, 125] Watts per square meter. Since just about all temperature feedbacks since the dawn of the Earth have acted by now, the post-feedback or equilibrium system climate sensitivity parameter is 33 K divided by the forcing interval – namely 0.33[0.27, 0.39] Kelvin per Watt per square meter.

Multiplying the system sensitivity parameter interval by any given radiative forcing yields the corresponding equilibrium temperature change. The IPCC takes the forcing from a doubling of CO2 concentration as 3.7 Watts per square meter, so the corresponding warming – the system climate sensitivity – is 1.2[1.0, 1.4] K, or about one-third of the IPCC’s 3.3[2.0, 4.5] K.

I also demonstrated that the officially-estimated 2 Watts per square meter of radiative forcings and consequent manmade temperature changes of 0.4-0.8 K since 1750 indicated a transient industrial-era sensitivity of 1.1[0.7, 1.5] K, very much in line with the independently-determined system sensitivity.

Accordingly. transient and equilibrium sensitivities are so close to one another that temperature feedbacks – additional forcings that arise purely because temperature has changed in response to initial or base forcings – are very likely to be net-zero.

Indeed, with net-zero feedbacks the IPCC’s transient-sensitivity parameter is 0.31 Kelvin per Watt per square meter, close to the 0.33 that I had derived as the system equilibrium or post-feedback parameter.

I concluded that climate sensitivity to the doubling of CO2 concentration expected this century is low enough to be harmless.

One regular troll – one can tell he is a troll by his silly hate-speech about how I “continue to fool yourself and others” – attempted to say that Kiehl and Trenberth’s 86-125 Watts per square meter of total forcing from the presence of the top five greenhouse gases included the feedbacks consequent upon the forcing, asserting, without evidence, that I (and by implication the two authors) was confusing forcings and feedbacks.

No: Kiehl and Trenberth are quite specific in their paper: “We calculate the longwave radiative forcing of a given gas by sequentially removing atmospheric absorbers from the radiation model. We perform these calculations for clear and cloudy sky conditions to illustrate the role of clouds to a given absorber for the total radiative forcing. Table 3 lists the individual contribution of each absorber to the total clear-sky [and cloudy-sky] radiative forcing.” Forcing, not feedback. Indeed, the word “feedback” does not occur even once in Kiehl & Trenberth’s paper.

In particular, the troll thought we were treating the water-vapor feedback as though it were a forcing. We were not, of course, but let us pretend for a moment that we were. If we now add CO2 to the atmospheric mix and disturb what the IPCC assumes to have been a prior climatic equilibrium, then by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation the space occupied by the atmosphere is capable of holding near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms. This – to the extent that it occurred – would indeed be a feedback.

However, as Paltridge et al. (2009) have demonstrated, it is not clear that the water vapor feedback is anything like as strongly positive as the IPCC would like us to believe. Below the mid-troposphere, additional water vapor makes very little difference because its principal absorption bands are largely saturated. Above it, the additional water vapor tends to subside harmlessly to lower altitudes, again making very little difference to temperature. The authors conclude that feedbacks are somewhat net-negative, a conclusion supported by measurements given in papers such as Lindzen & Choi (2009, 2010), Spencer & Braswell (2010, 2011), and Shaviv (2011).

It is also worth recalling that Solomon et al. (2009) say equilibrium will not be reached for up to 3000 years after we perturb the climate. If so, it is only the transient climate change (one-third of the IPCC’s ’quilibrium estimate) that will occur in our lifetime and in that of our grandchildren. Whichever way you stack it, manmade warming in our own era will be small and, therefore, harmless.

A true-believer at the recent Los Alamos quinquennial climate conference at Santa Fe asked me, in a horrified voice, whether I was really willing to allow our grandchildren to pay for the consequences of our folly in emitting so much CO2. Since the warming we shall cause will be small and may well prove to be beneficial, one hopes future generations will be grateful to us.

Besides, as President Klaus of the Czech Republic has wisely pointed out, if we damage our grandchildren’s inheritance by blowing it on useless windmills, mercury-filled light-bulbs, solar panels, and a gallimaufry of suchlike costly, wasteful, environment-destroying fashion statements, our heirs will certainly not thank us.

Mr. Wingo and others wonder whether it is appropriate to assume that the sum of various different fourth powers of temperature over the entire surface of the Earth will be equal to the fourth power of the global temperature as determined by the fundamental equation of radiative transfer. By zonal calculation on several hundred zones of equal height and hence of equal spherical-surface area, making due allowance for the solar azimuth angle applicable to each zone, I have determined that the equation does indeed provide a very-nearly-accurate mean surface temperature, varying from the sum of the zonal means by just 0.5 K in total. In mathematical terms, the Holder inequality is in this instance near-vanishingly small.

Dr. Nikolov, however, considers that the textbooks and the literature are wrong in this respect: but I have deliberately confined my analysis to textbook methods and “mainstream-science” data precisely so as to minimize the scope for any disagreement on the part of those who – until now – have gone along with the IPCC’s assertion that climate sensitivity is high enough to be dangerous. Deploying their own methods and drawing proper conclusions from them is more likely to lead them to rethink their position than attempting to reinvent the wheel.

Mr. Martin asks whether I’d be willing to apply my calculations to Venus. However, I do not share the view of Al Gore, Dr. Nikolov, or Mr. Huffman that Venus is likely to give us the answers we need about climate sensitivity on Earth. A brief critique of Mr. Huffman’s analysis of the Venusian atmospheric soup and its implications for climate sensitivity is at Jo Nova’s ever-fragrant and always-eloquent website.

Brian H asks whether Dr. Nikolov is right in his finding that, for several astronomical bodies [including Venus] all that matters in the determination of surface temperature is the mass of the atmospheric overburden. Since I am not yet content that Dr. Nikolov is right in concluding that the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature is 100 K less than the 255 K given in the textbooks, I am disinclined to enquire further into his theory until this rather large discrepancy is resolved.

Rosco is surprised by the notion of dividing the incoming solar irradiance by 4 to determine the Wattage per square meter of the Earth’s surface. I have taken this textbook step because the Earth intercepts a disk-sized area of insolation, which must be distributed over the rotating spherical surface, and the ratio of the surface area of a disk to that of a sphere of equal radius is 1:4.

Other commenters have asked whether the fact that the characteristic-emission sphere has a greater surface area than the Earth makes a difference. No, it doesn’t, because the ratio of the surface areas of disk and sphere is 1:4 regardless of the radius and hence surface area of the sphere.

Rosco also cites Kiehl and Trenberth’s notion that the radiation absorbed and emitted at the Earth’s surface is 390 Watts per square meter. The two authors indicate, in effect, that they derived that value by multiplying the fourth power of the Earth’s mean surface temperature of 288 K by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (0.0000000567 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power).

If Kiehl & Trenberth were right to assume that a strict Stefan-Boltzmann relation holds at the surface in this way, then we might legitimately point out that the pre-feedback climate-sensitivity parameter – the first differential of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the above values for surface radiative flux and temperature – would be just 288/(390 x 4) = 0.18 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. If so, even if we were to assume the IPCC’s implicit central estimate of strongly net-positive feedbacks at 2.1 Watts per square meter per Kelvin the equilibrium climate sensitivity to a CO2 doubling would be 3.7 x 0.18 / (1 – 2.1 x 0.18) = 1.1 K. And where have we seen that value before?

In all this, of course, I do not warrant any of the IPCC’s or Kiehl and Trenberth’s or the textbooks’ methods or data or results as correct: that would be well above my pay-grade. However, as Mr. Fernley-Jones has correctly noticed, I am quite happy to demonstrate that if their methods and values are correct then climate sensitivity – whichever way one does the calculation – is about one-third of what they would like us to believe it is.

All the contributors – even the trolls – have greatly helped me in clarifying what is in essence a simple but not simpliste argument. To those who have wanted to complicate the argument in various ways, I say that, as the splendid Willis Eschenbach has pointed out before in this column, one should keep firmly in mind the distinction between first-order effects that definitely change the outcome, second-order effects that may or may not change it but won’t change it much, and third-order effects that definitely won’t change it enough to make a difference. One should ruthlessly exclude third-order effects, however superficially interesting.

Given that the IPCC seems to be exaggerating climate sensitivity threefold, only the largest first-order influences are going to make a significant difference to the calculation. And it is the official or textbook treatment of these influences that I have used throughout.

My New Year’s resolution is to write a short book about the climate question, in which the outcome of the discussions here will be presented. The book will say that climate sensitivity is low; that, even if it were as high as the IPCC wants us to think, it would be at least an order of magnitude cheaper to adapt to the consequences of any warming that may occur than to try, Canute-like, to prevent it; that there are multiple lines of evidence for systematic and connected corruption and fraud on the part of the surprisingly small clique of politically-motivated “scientists” who have fabricated and driven the now-failing climate scare; and that too many who ought to know better have looked the other way as their academic, scientific, political, or journalistic colleagues have perpetrated and perpetuated their shoddy frauds, because silence in the face of official mendacity is socially convenient, politically expedient, and, above all, financially profitable.

The final chapter will add that there is a real danger that the UN, using advisors from the European Union, will succeed in exploiting the fraudulent science peddled by the climate/environment axis as a Trojan horse to extinguish democracy in those countries which, unlike the nations of Europe, are still fortunate enough to have it; that the world’s freedom is consequently at immediate and grave risk from the vaunting ambition of a grasping, talent-free, scientifically-illiterate ruling elite of world-government wannabes everywhere; but that – as the recent history of the bureaucratic-centralist and now-failed EU has demonstrated – the power-mad adidacts are doomed, and they will be brought low by the ineluctable futility of their attempts to tinker with the laws of physics and of economics.

The army of light and truth, however few we be, will quietly triumph over the forces of darkness in the end: for, whether they like it or not, the unalterable truth cannot indefinitely be confused, concealed, or contradicted. We did not make the laws of science: therefore, it is beyond our power to repeal them.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

244 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
December 30, 2011 9:18 am

Well said sir, as ever.

Joel Shore
December 30, 2011 9:18 am

The working definition of “troll” that Monckton seems to be using is someone who actually injects science into his posts. I will respond to this latest piece of nonsense once I am back home with access to a reasonable computer.

Darkinbad the Brightdayler
December 30, 2011 9:20 am

You don’t see any contradiction in you penultimate paragraph and its predecessor?

Mydogsgotnonose
December 30, 2011 9:24 am

The 33 K claimed GHG warming is an elementary mistake. It’s obtained by imagining that if you remove all the atmosphere the surface temperature of the Earth would be the same -18°C it is at present for radiative equilibrium of the composite emitter at the top of the atmosphere with space.
Wrong: the albedo of the Earth would fall from 0.3 to 0.07 because there’d be no clouds or ice. Redo the radiation calculation and the equilibrium radiative solution is close to 0°C.
That means the maximum present GHG warming is 15°C. Redo the calculation for the remaining aerosols and realistic convection and it falls to ~9°C. So you scale all IPCC claims by 9/33. But there’s more. Because the net AIE is slightly positive [incorrect aerosol optical physics], you lose at least another 44% [median AR4]. So, the real scaling factor is 1/6.7 =~ 0.15.
That means maximum CO2 climate sensitivity =~0.45 K. I’ll leave the other major errors until later so as not to upset oxymoronic climate science too much before the end of 2011….;o)

Scott Covert
December 30, 2011 9:40 am

Awesome post!
Monkton is a nut case IMO but I think he’s right.
Thanks again for your well worded posts.

William
December 30, 2011 10:02 am

Lord Monckton of Brenchley,
Thank-you for the thoughtful succinct piece on feedbacks.
As the papers you quoted note, the observational data (top of the atmosphere radiation measurement vs planetary temperature changes) supports the assertion that the planet’s feedback response to a change in forcing is negative – planet resists a forcing change – as opposed to positive – planet amplifies a forcing change. There is scientific consensus that if the planet’s feedback response to a change in forcing is negative (planet resists rather than amplifies the forcing change) the expected warming due to a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide from 0.028% (280 ppm) to 0.056% (580 ppm) will be less than 1.2C.
As the warming due to a doubling of CO2 is modest (less than 1.2C) and primarily at higher latitudes (cloud cover in the tropics increases or decreases to resist forcing changes) where the growing season is currently limited by temperature, it appears there is no CO2 problem to solve. It seems in fact, as commercial greenhouses inject carbon dioxide into the greenhouse (1000 ppm to 1500 ppm) to increase yield and reduce growing times – plants eat CO2 – a strong argument could be made that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is beneficial to the biosphere.
This is fortunate, as all Western countries are deeply in debt and there is no end of issues – including environmental protection – to address with tax payer funds.
I enjoyed your book on the scientific details concerning the Hockey stick. I look forward to your book on feedbacks.
Best wishes,
William

Moray Watson
December 30, 2011 10:04 am

[SNIP: This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. If you have a concern, try e-mailing Anthony using the contact option on the about tab. If you are trying to hijack the thread, forget it. -REP]

December 30, 2011 10:05 am

I am very interested to see how the Unified Climate Theory folks back up their 100k greater figure since as Christopher Monckton points out, till that little change in conventional wisdom is explained the rest of the UCT may just be added whimsey.
Yet, since this earth with no atmosphere temp figure is so far different from conventional wisdom, I would think the authors would have realized this and not published unless they a good basis for challenging that bit of CW.
Still, even if the UCT is wrong, their points of CO2 levels being an effect of temp rather than a cause will finally have to be addressed as the team and others critique their coming papers.
Personally I hope the lower 100k figure is right. Wouldn’t that rock climate science to the core!

James Sexton
December 30, 2011 10:05 am

“The army of light and truth, however few we be, will quietly triumph over the forces of darkness in the end: for, whether they like it or not, the unalterable truth cannot indefinitely be confused, concealed, or contradicted. We did not make the laws of science: therefore, it is beyond our power to repeal them.”
Thank you Christopher. I’m wondering if we can apply this rationale to some other threads here?

Bill Illis
December 30, 2011 10:23 am

We do the math backwards and forwards and in various different forms and it always comes out the same. We look at the actual observations of the climate so far, backwards and forwards and in various different ways and it provides the same answer.
Either the low sensitivity value is right or the climate has magical properties that will be revealed later.

December 30, 2011 10:24 am

I think Monckton has done a good job by using the tools IPCC use to prove them wrong. That makes the article understandable even to me being an electronic engineer and a programmer.

December 30, 2011 10:29 am

The army of light and truth, however few we be, will quietly triumph over the forces of darkness in the end: for, whether they like it or not, the unalterable truth cannot indefinitely be confused, concealed, or contradicted. We did not make the laws of science: therefore, it is beyond our power to repeal them.
A real and literal “apocalypse”: A Revelation from above: The darkest hours of night are those which precede dawn.
This is why some “photophobic” creatures are so scared 🙂

Mike G
December 30, 2011 10:44 am

Please stop trashing compact flourescent light bulbs. I completely agree windmills and solar panels for bulk power generation are completely useless and a major con, although not for many smaller scale specialised applications
CFL bulbs are a genuine improvement on those small glowing electric fires for most uses. Who would ever dream of using filament lighting for any commercial building or public space, but somehow it is best for use at home? Fair enough early CFL were not that good, but now they are a huge improvement in many locations, long lasting, cool running, very economical, and even quite quick starting.
It is a shame that the politicians took a stand on this issue, but as Churchill observed, even a fool (and presumably many fools) can be right sometimes.
Talking of progress, it won’t be that long before LEDs rule the world.
M

J Martin
December 30, 2011 10:51 am

Lord Monkton,
Thankyou for pointing me in the direction of the Joanne Nova post on the subject. I shall duly examine it.
May I take it that the use of the word “fragrant” perhaps heralds a change of career, into the Judiciary ?

David, UK
December 30, 2011 10:55 am

Scott Covert says:
December 30, 2011 at 9:40 am
Awesome post!
Monkton is a nut case IMO but I think he’s right.
Thanks again for your well worded posts.

Hey – he might be a nut case, but he’s our nut case! Seriously, Monck: thank you for your tireless efforts, and more power to you.

Rob Crawford
December 30, 2011 11:00 am

“CFL bulbs are a genuine improvement on those small glowing electric fires for most uses.”
Until they fail or break. Then you have a situation that, normally, would have Greens demanding government action.

December 30, 2011 11:12 am

Lord Monckton said:
“My earlier posting explained how the textbooks establish that if albedo and insolation were held constant but all greenhouse gases were removed from the air the Earth’s surface temperature would be 255 K. Since today’s temperature is 288 K, the presence as opposed to absence of all the greenhouse gases – including H2O, CO2, CH4, N2O and stratospheric O3 – causes 33 K warming.”
With all due respect: no!, it would not. No matter how many textbooks say that. That’s what would happen to a grey body, in static state being uniformely hit by radiation from all directions. But the earth happens to rotate every 24 hours and gets all the energy from a single source, instead of uniformely distributed. The diffence gives a surprising result, and I like to repeat something I posted a few days ago, the real null hypothesis:
I think there are a few essential elements missing in this generation of the null hypothesis,
1: The standard no-atmosphere “black body” model uses temperature of the surface, whereas the global temperature is the atmospheric temperature at 1.5 meters above the surface. Think about that.
2: Non radiating gasses cannot lose their heat by radiation, only conduction and convection and there is only the earth surface to conduct heat to. Nothing can be emitted to the atmosphere.
3: There is no negative convection.
This is how I wrapped the null hypothesis up in UKww:
“The null hypothesis is usually describing the situation which would it make different from the actual -or alternative- hypothesis. It’s used mostly in statistics, I think, but why not try and see what happens if we apply it to the GHG hypothesis.
We read all over internet that the black body temperature of the Earth would have been -18C, but the actual average temperature is +15C; consequently this 33 degrees difference is supposed to be the greenhouse effect. But is this true?
Is the blackbody situation the “null hypothesis”? I don’t think so. The black body calculation assumes a sphere with a constant flux of light energy, uniformely distributed over the surface, using the Stefan Boltzman equation to derive it’s temperature like this.
But the earth is nowhere near a blackbody and if we want to really look at the null hypothesis, we would have to look at an earth without greenhouse effect, but still with an (inert) atmosphere and still rotating in 24 hrs, with seasons and all.
Now, instead of using an average steady state solar radiation, we need to realize that we have the diurnal cycle with max insolation radiation at noon and no radiation incoming when the sun is below the horizon. So during daytime the earth surface warms up and much more than the according the average radiation. Equilibrium temperature at the equator in a steady state with the sun in zenith, using the full incoming 1365 w/m2 (albedo 30%) would be 360K or 87C. This follows from applying the Stephan Boltzman equation for the spot directly under the sun, instead of a uniformely distributed radiation.
So this much higher temperature of the earth surface is transmitted via conduction to the lowermost boundary layer of the atmosphere. This heated air gets is less dense, and it becomes buoyant so it rises up; Convection, the very basics of meteorology. So at daytime the atmosphere receives thermal energy of the earth. How can it lose this energy again? Remember we are in the null hypothesis, no radiation, no greenhouse effect, so the inert atmosphere cannot lose the energy by radiation.
Now, at night time the Earth does not receive radiation energy from the sun but it radiates energy out and cools quickly, obviously much more quickly in the null hypothesis even than with the greenhouse effect, which would have directed (“reflects”) some radiation back to earth. Now the cooler earth also cools the boundary layer of the atmosphere by conduction again, however there is no negative convection as the cool air gets more dense and tends to stay put; the inversion; also very basic meteorology.
So despite the cooling of the earth, the missing radiation from the atmosphere prevents it from cooling at night and the next day more conducted energy is convected into the atmosphere, that stays there again.
Obviously we have an unbalance. And equilibrium can only be reached, maybe after thousands of years, when the convection at daytime has reduced so much to balance heat loss at night time via conduction back to the surface. For that the lower level atmosphere needs to be at the same temperature / density than the boundary layer would reach due to the conduction of heat from the surface.
Conclusion, in the null hypothesis, without greenhouse effect, the average temperature of the lower atmosphere would be considerably higher than the black body temperature of the surface. How much I don’t know. But the main point is that a certain part of the temperature difference between black body and actual atmospheric temperature is not due to greenhouse effect but due to the inability of the inert atmosphere to cool down by radiation. “

Neil
December 30, 2011 11:25 am

Thank you for your forceful feedback, Sir.
But I must ask you, what in your last paragraph but one do you mean by “adidact?”

December 30, 2011 11:28 am

Christopher Monckton of Brenchley says:
“…a real danger that the UN, using advisors from the European Union, will succeed in exploiting the fraudulent science peddled by the climate/environment axis as a Trojan horse to extinguish democracy…”
Sir on this I stand in full agreement. This has never been about climate change it has always been about getting more power in the hands of government. Freedom lost is not likely regained. First light bulbs next what??? All other quibbles are tertiary after this.
If I control the price of, how much, and what kind enegy you can have, I can control you.

Seasons Greetings
December 30, 2011 11:31 am

Mydogsgotnonose says:
December 30, 2011 at 9:24 am
“The 33 K claimed GHG warming is an elementary mistake. It’s obtained by imagining that if you remove all the atmosphere the surface temperature of the Earth would be the same -18°C it is at present for radiative equilibrium of the composite emitter at the top of the atmosphere with space.”
Fact: The earth and the moon are made of the same rocks.
Fact: The measured average temperature of the moon is 250K.
The above observations were obtained by Apollo missions to the moon.
So if we strip the earth of its atmosphere and ocean its albedo and distance from the sun will be the same as the moon and it should therefore have the same average temperature. This is pretty close to the calculated value of 255K for the earth sans greenhouse gases and ocean.
The problem I have is that the ocean is neglected as a source of greenhouse warming. Water is transparent to shortwave and opaque to longwave. It is that combination of transparency and opacity at incoming and outgoing radiative frequencies respectively that makes a greenhouse gas a greenhouse gas. Water is a greenhouse fluid. Moreover, unlike the combination of GHGs in the atmosphere, liquid water’s opacity to longwave infrared is complete across the LWIR spectrum. As well, just the first 10 meters of the ocean has as much mass and twice the heat capacity as the entire column of air above it. Furthermore the ocean’s albedo is far lower than rocks and when the sun is directly overhead and the water calm its albedo is nearly zero. All these factors combine to make the ocean, so long as it is liquid, the major source of greenhouse warming.
The greenhouse gases above the ocean have little effect because so-called back-radiation is completely absorbed in a skin layer just a few microns thick. This does little more than raise the evaporation rate. Indeed if one examines ocean heat budget studies in the literature one finds that fully 70% of ocean heat loss is latent (i.e. evaporation), 20% is radiative, and 5% is conductive. This is quite unlike how land surfaces heat and cool where greenhouse gases do have a significant effect on surface air temperature.
Once a person understands the great difference between how land and water heat and cool then all the observations start making perfect sense.
“Wrong: the albedo of the Earth would fall from 0.3 to 0.07 because there’d be no clouds or ice. Redo the radiation calculation and the equilibrium radiative solution is close to 0°C.”
Albedo would only fall that low if the ocean was still there but if you’re subtracting clouds and ice it seems you must also subtract surface water too otherwise you will have clouds and ice. Absent clouds, ice, and oceans the earth’s albedo would presumably be the same as the moon which is 0.16 since they’re made of the same materials.
“That means the maximum present GHG warming is 15°C. Redo the calculation for the remaining aerosols and realistic convection and it falls to ~9°C. So you scale all IPCC claims by 9/33. But there’s more. Because the net AIE is slightly positive [incorrect aerosol optical physics], you lose at least another 44% [median AR4]. So, the real scaling factor is 1/6.7 =~ 0.15.”
Actually I’d tend to agree that’s the amount of greenhouse warming that comes from greenhouse gases. The other 24C of greenhouse warming comes from the global ocean.
“That means maximum CO2 climate sensitivity =~0.45 K. I’ll leave the other major errors until later so as not to upset oxymoronic climate science too much before the end of 2011….;o)”
That’s about right for the mean value over the earth’s surface. Over land it’s still going to be the oft cited 1.1K which is why, as Monkton points out, this value is both calculated by well established 19th century experimental physics and by 20th observation of land-based surface thermometers in conjuction with atmospheric CO2 partial pressure history over that time. Everything makes sense once you understand or at least accept that the global ocean does most of the greenhouse warming over the 70% of the earth’s surface that it covers and greenhouse gases only have a large effect over land surfaces because of the difference in the way land heats and cools versus how water heats and cools.

David Walton
December 30, 2011 11:33 am

Re: “It is a shame that the politicians took a stand on this issue, but as Churchill observed, even a fool (and presumably many fools) can be right sometimes.”
Au contraire. Thanks to politicians and the legions of ignorant, feel good eco-fools GE’s breakthrough incandescent that had nearly the efficiency of CFLs and none of the associated disposal hazards was canned and never brought into production.
Fools, of course, are rarely ever right. If and when they are it is only by sheer coincidence. I believe Mr. Churchill was aware of that.
WUWT carried the story of GE’s incandescent breakthrough but I cannot find it now using the WUWT search engine. Long term readers might recall it.
Several years back GE announced that because of the political climate surrounding incandescent bulbs it was abandoning further research and manufacture of high efficiency incandescents. This was sad news because that product might have been a reasonable, non-polluting option and gap filler while the development of inexpensive and better LED lighting solutions progressed.
Thank you politicians, ignoramuses, and fools. You win again and the rest of us lose.

R. Gates
December 30, 2011 11:33 am

Another most interesting and even entertaining post by Lord Monckton. But even if CO2 levels froze at todays ~390 ppm, we’ve not yet reached the equalibrium temperature for this 40% additional amount of CO2 since 1750, and wouldn’t until all feedbacks fast and slow, bio, ice, clouds, etc. have run their course. As the nature and interactions of these feedbacks are not entirely understood, anyone making a claim to know what even the current equalibrium temperature would be is of course, simply making a guess, but one thing is certian– we’ve not reached it yet, even if CO2 levels stayed where they are today– which is of course unlikely. In regards to what the climate sensitivity is to a doubling of CO2, up to 560 ppm, that would be even more of an educated guess at best. But some confidence can be taken from the fact that both paleoclimate data and GCM’s seem to be converging on a reasonably consistent range in the area of 3C, with error bars of about 1C on either side at a 95% confidence level. Thus, by 2100, it is not at all unreasonable to suppose global temps could increase at least 2C. Whether or not these globally higher temps will present a problem or a benefit in feeding what is likley to be be something in the order of 12+ billion humans in another issue entirely, but the the high level of certainty that Lord Monckton states that the sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 by 2100 is “low enough to be harmless” is both scientifically and logically unsupportable.

wayne
December 30, 2011 11:44 am

“Brian H asks whether Dr. Nikolov is right in his finding that, for several astronomical bodies [including Venus] all that matters in the determination of surface temperature is the mass of the atmospheric overburden. Since I am not yet content that Dr. Nikolov is right in concluding that the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature is 100 K less than the 255 K given in the textbooks, I am disinclined to enquire further into his theory until this rather large discrepancy is resolved.”
You can be assured Dr. Nikolov is correct. I have just taken the time to numerically integrate over a sphere 33 million evenly spaced points, as Dr. Nikolov describes in his article, calculating first the irradiance at each point and then computing the effective gray body temperature for each, then averaging the temperatures. This produces precisely the same figures he gave, 154.3K mean temperature for an atmosphere-less Earth. That means the boost in temperature from this figure to the mean temperature of today on Earth is ~133°C higher, varying on what figure you call today’s global mean temperature. That I now know is true.
I give the chart below since you seemed to miss it Christopher.
That chart also verifies part of what followed in his article. Here the main there bodies temperatures are calculated simply by the ideal gas law which only uses base-units of mass, length, time, moles (number of particles) and temperature as you look at the unit components are for pressure, density, molar mass, and the gas constant.
Because of this lack of any radiative terms needed to precisely calculate each mean temperature, all infrared absorbing gases (IRAG), with absorption lines in the infrared, and formerly known as “greenhouse” gases, have precisely zero affect on the long-term temperatures. That is self evident. This information is going to Congress ASAP (being dressed up a bit☺).
Used: T = P/ ρ • M/R

                    Venus      Earth       Mars
                 --------   --------   --------
P - pressure      9220000     101325        605  N/m2 (Pa)
ρ - density            65      1.217      0.015  kg/m3
M - molar mass     0.0434    0.02897    0.04334  kg/mol
R - gas constant  8.31451    8.31451    8.31451  J/K/mol
                 --------   --------   --------
T - temperature    740.40     290.09     210.24  K

It is also curious that this gives Earth’s ‘natural’ mean temperature to be 290.1 K, where we usually here it stated as 288 or 288.15 or by K&T, 289K. Maybe 1) we have not fully recovered from the LIA yet, or 2) the mean sea level atmospheric pressure is over-stated, for we know all of density, molar mass, and the gas constant to many decimal places, they are all measurable in labs, average pressure is not.

R. Gates
December 30, 2011 11:58 am

Wayne,
if an atmosphere-less earth would have an average temperature of 154K, why, does the atmosphere-less moon have one of 250K? Both would receive about the same energy from the sun.

Luther Wu
December 30, 2011 12:01 pm

R. Gates says:
December 30, 2011 at 11:33 am
…”the high level of certainty that Lord Monckton states that the sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 by 2100 is “low enough to be harmless” is both scientifically and logically unsupportable.
_________________________
There are only two possible states: either the effects of a doubling of CO2 is ‘low enough to be harmless’, or a doubling of CO2 will cause harm.
Why don’t you prove how your point of advocacy dominates Lord Monckton’s assertion?
After all, isn’t the science settled?

1 2 3 10