Climategate 2.0 emails – They're real and they're spectacular!

A link to where to download the new FOIA2011.zip file is posted below the fold – This will be a top post for a few days -NEW STORIES APPEAR BELOW THIS ONE -I’ve also reversed the order of the updates to be newest at top for better visibility – Anthony

UPDATE50: 1:15 PM PST 11/30 The genesis of RealClimate.org seems to have been found. Surprisingly, the BBC’s Roger Harrabin seems to have been involved in the genesis meeting.

UPDATE49: 10:00 AM PST 11/30 While not email related, just as Climategate breaks David Suzuki commits an egregious propaganda error second only to the 10:10 video where kids are blown up for not going along with carbon reduction schemes at school. He’s targeting kids and Santa Claus at Christmas – Santa’s home is melting.

UPDATE48: 9:20 AM PST 11/30 Dr. Phil Jones on the  “lack of warming” -he may need a backup plan.

UPDATE47: 9AM PST 11/30 Fudge factor collection in the emails, or is climate modeling a social issue?

UPDATE46: A look at UEA/CRU’s email infrastructure and email systems in general suggests that the “deleted” emails to/from Phil Jones and others at CRU probably still exist and can be subject to FOIA.

UPDATE45: 1:30PM PST 11/29 If there was award for clueless timing, this would win it no contest: Penn State to lecture on “climate ethics”

UPDATE44: 9AM PST 11/29 Mike Mann reprises the role of Captain Queeg in The Cain Mutiny when seeing de Freitas being vindicated by the publisher of Climate Research (see the update in the article).

UPDATE43: 8AM PST 11/29 An Excel Spreadsheet with Climategate 1 and 2 emails ordered chronologically should be helpful in determining that supposedly missing”context”

UPDATE42:  7AM PST 11/29 The CRU crew says:  “what we really meant was…”

UPDATE41: 4AM PST 11/29 James Padget schools Steve Zwick – Guide to Defending the Indefensible. Some people just can’t handle Climategate.

UPDATE40: 12AM PST 11/29 Penn State has the same “look the other way” problem with Climategate as they did with the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

UPDATE39: It seems “vexatious” is Dr. Phil Jones favorite new feeling word after summer 2009.

UPDATE38: Severinghaus says Mike Mann didn’t give a straight answer regarding why trees don’t work as thermometers after 1950

UPDATE37: Climate sensitivity can’t be quantified with the current data according to NCAR’s Wigley, with paleo data – even less so.

UPDATE36: Dr. Chris de Freitas responds to the ugly attempt by The Team at getting him fired.

UPDATE 35: “Stroppy” Dr Roger Pielke Sr. shows just how much a “old boys network” the peer review process is.

UPDATE34: More internal dissent of the hockey stick. Mann tries to beat down the concern over “hide the decline” while not letting the dissenting scientist know there was a decline.

UPDATE33: Gobsmacking! Rob Wilson proves McIntyre and McKittrick correct in an email to colleagues at CRU, showing that when random noise time series are fed into Mike Mann’s procedure, it makes “hockey sticks”. The confirmation that M&M is right never leaves the walls of CRU.

UPDATE32: 9:30PM PST  11/27 BREAKINGCanada to pull out of Kyoto protocol. Another Climategate fallout ?

UPDATE31: 4:30PM PST 11/27 BOMBSHELL An absolutely disgusting string of communications that shows the tribal attempt at getting an editor of a journal fired on made up issues – all because he allowed a publication that didn’t agree with “the Team”. This is ugly, disturbing, and wrong on every level.

UPDATE30: 9:45 AM PST 11/27 Newsbytes. Major crack in the warming wall at the UK prime minister’s office. BBC in collusion with Climategate scientists.

UPDATE29: 9AM PST 11/27 The saga of the missing station data at CRU and the “pants on fire” defense of it as told by Willis Eschenbach. Dr. Phil Jones is between a rock and a hard place, quite.

UPDATE 28: 1:30PM PST 11/26 An email shows the UNFCCC considers activists an essential tool saying “…organized and deeply committed environmental activism has long been an important part of the UNFCCC process…”

UPDATE27: 7AM PST 11/26 Climategate 2 features prominently in WUWT’s newest feature “Hits and Misses

UPDATE26: 2:50 PM 11/25 Two separate examples show obstruction and collusion by members of “The Team” to prevent any dissenting science from being properly considered by the NRC in 2007.

UPDATE25: 2PM 11/25 Keith Briffa asks another colleague to delete email to avoid FOIA

UPDATE24: 1:30PM 11/25 New Climategate 1/2 combined search engine here

UPDATE23: 9AM PST 11/25 via bishop-hill, strange infighting:

#4101 – Edward Cook tells Phil Jones that Mike Mann is “serious enemy” and “vindictive”. Mike Mann had criticized his work.

Apparently Mann went “a little crazy” over a paper showing the MWP exists.

Details here

UPDATE22: 11AM PST 11/24 Am unsurprising admission from a BBC environmental reporter to Dr. Phil Jones that they really have no impartiality at all (ho ho) when it comes to climate issues.

UPDATE21: 9:50AM PST 11/24 “FOIA2011″ and Climategate – A Chinese-POTUS connection?

UPDATE20: 9:30AM PST 11/24 World renowned climatologist Phil Jones can’t even plot a temperature trend line in Excel. I’ve offered a solution that WUWT readers can help with.

UPDATE19: 9AM PST 11/24 Gail Combs finds some disturbing connections between the Team and The World Bank

UPDATE18: 1:45PM Scott Mandia, aka “Supermandia” wins the award for the silliest climategate rebuttal, ever. It’s like stupid on steroids.

UPDATE17: 12:55PM PST 11/23 Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. has an excellent piece on “Gatekeeping” related to Trenberth and the Pielke-Landsea hurricane paper and the IPCC. You may recall Landsea resigned from the IPCC over this. Pielke says: “The gatekeeping of the IPCC process is abundantly clear, and the shadowy suggestion that they can find out who the reviewers are from another colleague is a bit unsettling as well.” Trenberth looks particularly bad here.

UPDATE16: 11:30AM PST 11/23 Insider scientist at CRU says our “reaction to Mike Mann’s errors was not particularly honest” – story here

UPDATE15: 7:50AM 11/23 Ric Werme found an email from the late John L. Daly to Mike Mann and the team – it is well worth a read here

UPDATE14: 2:45 AM PST 11/23 Willis Eschenbach offers a guest post here explaining how his FOIA requests went astray. Mr. David Palmer was the Freedom of Information Officer for the CRU at the time. In the newly released emails, he expresses his frustration with the whole procedure.

UPDATE13: 12:05AM 11/23 Craig Stone writes:

I have published a searchable database of the emails at http://foia2011.org

All email addresses and phone numbers are automatically redacted. It’s extremely rudimentary right now, but I’ll be refining the functionality and improving the search capabilities and navigation over the course of the next week.

UPDATE 12: 9:30 PM PST We’ve known for some time that Al Gore made up a bunch of claims in his AIT movie that simply weren’t true. Now this revelation in the new email batch shows that in the case of Kilimanjaro’s disappearing snows, even Phil Jones and Dr. Lonnie Thompson don’t believe global warming is the cause, even though Thompson put out a press release nearly a year ago saying just that. Told ya so. Pants on fire and all that. Anything for “the cause” right?

UPDATE11: 4:45PM PST Kevin Trenberth gets all misty eyed and sing-songy at Christmas here

UPDATE10: 4:30PM PST Some thoughts on cracking the big remaining all.7z file here

UPDATE9: 2:25PM PST Josh weighs in with the first satirical cartoon here

UPDATE8: 140PM PST Mike Mann shows his true colors:

email 1680.txt

date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:03:05 -0400

from: “Michael E. Mann”..

subject: Re: Something not to pass on

to: Phil Jones

Phil,

I would not respond to this. They will misrepresent and take out of context anything you give them. This is a set up. They will certainly publish this, and will ignore any evidence to the contrary that you provide. s They are going after Wei-Chyung because he’s U.S. and there is a higher threshold for establishing libel. Nonetheless, he should

consider filing a defamation lawsuit, perhaps you too.

I have been talking w/ folks in the states about finding an investigative journalist to investigate and expose McIntyre, and his thusfar unexplored connections with fossil fuel interests.Perhaps the same needs to be done w/ this Keenan guy.

I believe that the only way to stop these people is by exposing them and discrediting them….

UPDATE7: 1:20 PM PST Phil Jones and Tom Wigley calls another scientist (The former state climatologist of California) a “jerk” for publishing his UHI results.

UPDATE6: 12:08PM PST Here’s an email that collaborates a radio interview I did in Seattle with Thomas Peterson in summer 2007, yes these are 100% real emails, no doubt whatsoever now. More here: Climategate 2.0 – NCDC: “Mr. Watts gave a well reasoned position”

UPDATE 5: 11:00AM PST In a statement, UEA doesn’t deny these emails, but posts about the whitewash investigations of the past, like they matter now.

UPDATE4: 9:45 AM PST I’ve changed the headline from Climategate 2.0 to Climategate 2.0  emails – They’re real and they’re spectacular!  with a hat tip to Jerry Seinfeld. The relevance of that headline is particularly interesting in the context of where Dr. James Hansen of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) has his office in NYC.

UPDATE3: 9:25 AM PST – Having read a number of emails, and seeing this quote from Mike Mann in the Guardian:

When asked if they were genuine, he said: “Well, they look like mine but I hardly see anything that appears damning at all, despite them having been taken out of context. I guess they had very little left to work with, having culled in the first round the emails that could most easily be taken out of context to try to make me look bad.”

I’m going to conclude they are the real deal. I’ve posted a BitTorrent link to the file below. One big difference between Climategate 1 and 2 is that in 1, it took days for the MSM to catch on, now they are on top of it.

UPDATE2: 8:45AM PST The Guardian has a story up by Leo Hickman, and this excerpt suggests they may be the real deal:

Norfolk police have said the new set of emails is “of interest” to their investigation to find the perpetrator of the initial email release who has not yet been identified.

The emails appear to be genuine, but this has yet to be confirmed by the University of East Anglia. One of the emailers, the climate scientist Prof Michael Mann, has confirmed that he believes they are his messages.

UPDATE1: 8:20 AM PST These emails have not been verified yet, and this story was posted by one of my moderating staff while I was asleep. Until such time they are verified, tread lightly because without knowing what is behind the rest of the zip file, for all we know it’s a bunch of recipes and collection of  lorem ipsum text files. I’m working to authenticate these now and will report when I know more – Anthony Watts

===============================================================

Early this morning, history repeated itself. FOIA.org has produced an enormous zip file of 5,000 additional emails similar to those released two years ago in November 2009 and coined Climategate. There are almost 1/4 million additional emails locked behind a password, which the organization does not plan on releasing at this time.

The original link was dropped off in the Hurricane Kenneth thread at about 4 AM Eastern. It is still there.

Some initial snippets floating around the blogosphere:

<3373> Bradley: I’m sure you agree–the Mann/Jones GRL paper was truly pathetic and should never have been published. I don’t want to be associated with that 2000 year

“reconstruction”.

<3115> Mann:  By the way, when is Tom C going to formally publish his roughly 1500 year

reconstruction??? It would help the cause to be able to refer to that

reconstruction as confirming Mann and Jones, etc.

<3940> Mann:  They will (see below) allow us to provide some discussion of the synthetic

example, referring to the J. Cimate paper (which should be finally accepted

upon submission of the revised final draft), so that should help the cause a

bit.

<0810> Mann: I gave up on Judith Curry a while ago. I don’t know what she think’s she’s

doing, but its not helping the cause

<2440> Jones: I’ve been told that IPCC is above national FOI Acts. One way to cover yourself and all those working in AR5 would be to delete all emails at the end of the

process

<2094> Briffa: UEA does not hold the very vast majority of mine [potentially FOIable emails] anyway which I copied onto private storage after the completion of the IPCC

task.

JeffId has some initial reaction

From the ReadMe file:

/// FOIA 2011 — Background and Context ///

“Over 2.5 billion people live on less than $2 a day.”

“Every day nearly 16.000 children die from hunger and related causes.”

“One dollar can save a life” — the opposite must also be true.

“Poverty is a death sentence.”

“Nations must invest $37 trillion in energy technologies by 2030 to stabilize

greenhouse gas emissions at sustainable levels.”

Today’s decisions should be based on all the information we can get, not on

hiding the decline.

This archive contains some 5.000 emails picked from keyword searches. A few

remarks and redactions are marked with triple brackets.

The rest, some 220.000, are encrypted for various reasons. We are not planning

to publicly release the passphrase.

We could not read every one, but tried to cover the most relevant topics such

as…

==============================================================

Here’s one about UHI that is convincing:

cc: liqx@cma.xxx

date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:16:37 +0800

from: =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= <limmy@xxx>

subject: Re:Re: thank you

to: p.jones@xxx

Dear Phil,

Again I find that the emails from my CMA mail boxes can not get to you.

From attaches please find the data of 42 urban stations and 42 rural stations (by your

list) and a reference of homogenization of the data. we have tested and adjusted the abrupt

discontinuities of the data during 1951-2001, but the following years (2002-2004) has only

been quality controled and added to the end of the series, but we found the relocation

during these 3 years have minor effects on the whole series in most of the stations.

I  partly agree with what Prof. Ren said. and we have done some analysis on the urban heat

island effect in China during past years. The results are differnt with Ren’s. But I think

different methods, data, and selection of the urban and rural stations would be the most

important causes of this. So I think it is high time to give some new studies and graw some

conclusion in this topic.  I hope we can make some new achives on this both on global scale

and in China.

Best

Qingxiang

—– Original Message —–

From: “Phil Jones” < p.jones@xxxx >

To: “Rean Guoyoo” < guoyoo@xxxx >

Cc: “%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4” < limmy@xxx>, < liqx@cma.xxx >

Sent: 2007-09-24 16:25:59 +0800

Subject: Re: thank you

Dear Guoyu,

I think I emailed you from America last week. I am away again next week,

but here this week.

I do think that understanding urban influences are important.  I will

wait for Dr Li Qingxiang to send some data, but there is no rush, as I am

quite busy the next few weeks.

Best Regards

Phil

At 00:59 20/09/2007, you wrote:

The following message was returned back when I sent via cma site. I send it again via

this site. I also forwarded this message to Dr, Li Qingxiang.

Regards,

Guoyu

Dear Phil,

Thank you for your message of Sept 11, 2007. I have just been back from the US. Sorry

for the delayed response.

I noted the discussion on blog sites. This is indeed a big issue in the studies of

climate change.

In the past years, we did some analyses of the urban warming effect on surface air

temperature trends in China, and we found the effect is pretty big in the areas we

analyzed. This is a little different from the result you obtained in 1990. I think there

might be at least three reasons for the difference: (1) the areas chosen in the analyses

are different; (2) the time periods analyzed are obviously varied, and the aft-1990

period is seeing a more rapid warming in most areas of China; (3) the rural stations

used for the analyses are different, and we used some stations which we think could be

more representative for the baseline change.

We have published a few of papers on this topic in Chinese. Unfortunately, when we sent

our comments to the IPCC AR4, they were mostly rejected.

It is my opinion that we need to re-assess the urbanization effect on surface air

temperature records for at least some regions of the continents. I am glad that you are

going to redo it using the updated dataset. I expect you to obtain the new outcome.

As for the dataset, I believe that Dr. Li Qingxiang could give you a hand. He and his

group conducted a lot work of detection and adjustment of the inhomogeneities in the

past years, and the adjusted and the raw datasets are all stored and managed in his

center. The datasets we used are also from his center.

I’d be happy to discuss some issues with you late, but I would not necessarily be as a

co-author because my contribution would be rather minor.

Best regards,

Guoyu

NCC, Beijing

Shape Yahoo! in your own image. [1]Join our Network Research Panel today!

Prof. Phil Jones

Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 xxxx

School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 xxxxx

University of East Anglia

Norwich                          Email    p.jones@xxxxx

NR4 7TJ

UK

—————————————————————————-

=======================263ÌìÏÂÓÊ£ÐÅÀµÓÊ×Ôרҵ=======================

Attachment Converted: “c:\eudora\attach\Detecting and Adjusting Temporal Inhomogeneity in

Chinese Mean Surface Air Temperature Data.pdf” Attachment Converted: “c:\eudora\attach\To

Jones.rar”

====================================================================

Here’s a bit torrent link to the FOIA2011.zip file

You’ll need a bit torrent client

BETTER LINK:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROCGBR37

Documentation Of A Cozy Interaction Between An AMS BAMS Editor And Phil Jones

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barry
November 28, 2011 2:27 pm

Mike, I was responding to someone else re their confabulated notion that no one in paleoclimate science has explored the divergence issue. It is a ludicrous notion.There have been dozens of studies from many groups (Japanese, Russian, Canadian, UK, US…) investigating arboreal response to climate re the divergence issue.

In this case, “explored” clearly means to investigate and find a valid reason.

I cannot help it if commenters are unclear, or if they have strange ideas about what words mean. You are putting words in another commenters mouth. Once again, the English language is being redefined in order to ‘win’ a point. This is juvenile.
You appear to be asking me to persuade you of something. I’m not remotely qualified to tell you what is what about the divergence issue. I don’t even have an opinion, except that your assertions seem presumptive.
You made the claim that the data is useless. You are making absolute pronouncements. And you do this without having familiarised yourself with the literature and the attempts to reconcile the problem. I am not persuaded. I’ve read up on this subject and continue to do so, within my limited capacity. You should do the same. and remember your own limits. No skeptic purports to ‘know’ things of which they are only passing familiar.
The discussion can only usefully progress when it occurs within the modesty of each person’s limits. Your assertions on the utility of proxy data exhibiting divergence are presumptive.
(‘presumptive’ is exactly the right word)
If you want an overview of the divergence issue specifically WRT reconstructing millennial records, read section 3, “Implications for hemispheric-scale proxy temperature.” The issue you want to home in on is cited below, but you should read the whole section for a proper overview.

Other important issues to consider in evaluating the divergence problem are whether or not this phenomenon is unprecedented over the past millennium, and to what extent it is spatially constrained to northern latitude (boreal) forests. A recent analysis by Cook et al. (2004a) suggests that the divergence is restricted to the recent period and is unique over the past thousand years. It is thus likely to be anthropogenic in origin. Cook et al. (2004a) utilized a fourteen chronology ring width data set used previously to model low-frequency temperature variability for the past millennium (Esper et al., 2002). The data from these fourteen sites were split into northern (eight boreal sites, 55°–70° N), and southern (six temperate sites, 30°–55° N) groups. While the northern group, which broadly corresponds to the region considered most sensitive to divergence by Briffa et al. (1998a,b), shows a significant recent downturn, the southern group does not and is more consistent with recent warming trends. Prior to recent decades, the subgroups track each other reasonably well back in time until around the MWP, when replication and sample size are relatively low and the reconstructed temperatures are less certain. Thus, Cook et al. (2004a) concluded that at no time prior to the 20th century (at least until the MWP) was there a separation between the north and south groups that was at all comparable to that found after around 1950. One caveat, however, is that these analyses were based on a rather small number of treering records. Another is that the southern group included tree-ring data that may contain a purported CO2 fertilization signal (e.g., LaMarche et al., 1984; Graybill and Idso, 1993). If present, such a signal might impart an exaggerated estimate of the extent of north vs. south growth divergence. However, the existence of a CO2 fertilization signal remains very uncertain at present. Note also that the Sol Dav, Mongolia record, which shows evidence of pronounced recent warming (see above), was included in the southern group. Furthermore, end effect issues (see elsewhere in this study) can also complicate an exercise such as this one. One final point of note is that greater uncertainty exists in the earlier part of this record, and in other reconstructions, during the MWP, when sample size and replication are typically low (Cook et al., 2004a; D’Arrigo et al., 2006). Previously, Briffa et al. (1998a) conducted a similar analysis of their large-scale tree-ring data set for northern latitudes. As found by Cook et al. (2004a), Briffa et al. (1998a) discovered less divergence in the more southern regions, with declines in common variance with temperature of 5–12% vs. over 30% for some northern regions. Some of these more southern sites may have been less temperature-limited than those at the very limits of survival at treeline. Considerably more such research is needed, however, before we can conclude unequivocally that the recently observed divergence phenomenon is unique over the past thousand years.

Same link as before:
http://www.wsl.ch/info/mitarbeitende//cherubin/download/D_ArrigoetalGlobPlanCh2008.pdf

Editor
Reply to  barry
November 28, 2011 6:09 pm

barry – your last comment http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/#comment-811789 was condescending tosh, attempting to deflect attention from the issue to me. All that matters is the issue at hand.
Other important issues to consider in evaluating the divergence problem are whether or not this phenomenon is unprecedented over the past millennium, and to what extent it is spatially constrained to northern latitude (boreal) forests. A recent analysis by Cook et al. (2004a) suggests that the divergence is restricted to the recent period and is unique over the past thousand years. It is thus likely to be anthropogenic in origin.“.
That means they don’t have a clue what caused it. If they don’t have a clue what caused it then they can’t justify covering it up. But they did cover it up, they said so themselves, using a trick to hide it. That’s a pretty basic statement, my or your areas of expertise are irrelevant. Again, start with the simple question: when is it ever acceptable for a scientist to hide something?

Bill Williams
November 28, 2011 3:01 pm

http://foia2011.org/index.php?id=5165
Finally, that idiot Lord Monckton or Brenchly, is making his own
> DVD, based
> on that awful Ch 4 program ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ !
> Hopefully soon
> Ofcom (the UK group who assesses complaints against programs) will have
> ruled
> on that program – which had many more errors than Al’s DVD.
>
> Cheers
> Phil

Third Party
November 28, 2011 3:22 pm

Open Secrets:
“MANN, MICHAEL
BOALSBURG,PA 16827 PENN STATE UNIVERSITY/PROFESSOR 8/14/08 $250 Obama, Barack (D)
Mann, Michael
Boalsburg,PA 16827 Penn State University 10/24/08 $250 Obama, Barack (D)”

Philemon
November 28, 2011 5:22 pm

#1577 from Phil Jones:
“Any work we have done in the past 
is done on the back of the research grants we get – and has to be well hidden. I’ve
discussed this with the main funder (US Dept of Energy) in the past and they are 
happy about not releasing the original station data”
Who was Phil Jones’ grant officer for his grant from the U.S. DOE? Anyone have the DOE identifier for it?

David Ball
November 28, 2011 5:39 pm

“whole lotta obfuscation goin’ on”- Jerry Lee Lewis

Steve E
November 28, 2011 6:13 pm

Ouch! This one had to hurt! Wigley asks Briffa if he’s hiding something.
email 1017.txt-
date: Wed, 10 May 2006 07:24:43 -0600 (MDT)
from: ???@ucar.edu
subject: [Fwd: CCNet: “COLLAPSE TO NEAR ZERO?” EUROPE’S CARBON CREDITS MAY
to: ???@uea.ac.uk
Keith,
See the last item. Why don’t you just give these people the raw data?
Are you hiding something — your apparent refusal to be forthcoming sure
makes it look as though you are.
Tom.
==========
The last item referred to above is this:
(10) AND FINALLY: SCIENCE SHENANGIGANS GO ON
Steve McIntyre, 9 May 2006
It’s the last item in a list of news items originally sent by Benny Peiser to a “cambridge-conference” email address and then forwarded by Tom Wigley at UCAR to Keith Briffa at UEA.
The item refers to this post at CA: http://climateaudit.org/2006/05/09/more-ob-confidential/

wayne
November 28, 2011 8:04 pm

State of Fear:
Push yourself over to RobertInAz’s post containing a great link to a video that all should watch. How the lack of knowledge of history let’s us repeat what we should have learned and have already forgotten. (subject: on Little Ice Age)

HR
November 28, 2011 8:22 pm

There’s a few interesting emails on the Landsea/Trenberth controversy over hurricanes that I thought were interesting.
Email 0890
5th Nov 2004 Landsea sent an email with concerns about Trenberth’s press conference to IPCC leadership (Trenberth cc’d)
8th Nov 2004 Albert Klein Tank highlighted this problem to Phil Jones and Kevin Trenberth.
But it looks like the wheels were already in motion to exclude Landsea’s dissenting voice.
Email 1219
28th Oct Trenberth told Phil Jones about his press release countering Landsea and was already suggesting a Japanese contribution instead.
1st Nov Jones wrote to Neville Nicholls asking for suggestions of a replacement with the line “I know Chris Landsea could do it, but he always does. It would be good to get a different perspective.”
3rd Nov Funnily Nicholls wrote back “looking for an east asian perspective perhaps you should go for Johnny Chan?” but adds “…..you (especially Kevin) may not like what he says. But I think he is the obvious east Asia expert to have a crack at such a box anyway. He might end up saying what Chris Landsea would probably say anyway.”
Email 3967
3rd or 4th Nov (not dated but must be after Nicholl email exchange and before Trenberth reply)
Jones gets back to Trenberth with Nicholls suggestion but adding “Neville suggested Johnny Chan but said he would just say the same thing as Chris Landsea!” (wonder about the full meaning in that exclamation mark)
Meanwhile Jones had also started down another route
Email 2815
Nov 2nd Approaching Hiroki Kondo.
It seems that even before Landsea stepped down Jones and Trenberth had plans to replace him.
Just as an aside and to prove a scorned climate scientist has a long and spiteful memory
Email 5215 in 2007 from Jones to Trenberth was about the Nobel Prize and a suggestion that all contributors should get a scanned copy of the certificate to hang on their walls but also includes “… next time you see Chris Landsea, maybe you can tell him he opted out the prize!”

November 29, 2011 6:24 am

UPDATE 35: “Stroppy” Dr Roger Pielke Sr. shows just how much a “old boys network” the peer review process is. Thanks you for update. 🙂

wobble
November 29, 2011 7:46 am

barry says:
“November 28, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Mike, I was responding to someone else re their confabulated notion that no one in paleoclimate science has explored the divergence issue. It is a ludicrous notion.There have been dozens of studies from many groups (Japanese, Russian, Canadian, UK, US…) investigating arboreal response to climate re the divergence issue.”

barry, again, if the hockey stick had been so thoroughly explored, then why didn’t a palecolimate scientist warn Al Gore not to use it in his movie??
Maybe the “exploration” wasn’t as thorough as you’re insisting. Regardless, it’s fun to read you touting over-and-over-and-over that the hockey stick was debunked decades again. I know several people who still refuse to accept it.

Dean
November 29, 2011 9:01 am

Oh my……..this is Too Fun!!!!………like shooting fish in a barrel…….
Keyword: “Idiot”
From: Phil Jones
To: John Christy
Subject: This and that
Date: Tue Jul 5 15:51:55 2005
John,
There has been some email traffic in the last few days to a week – quite
a bit really, only a small part about MSU. The main part has been one of
your House subcommittees wanting Mike Mann and others and IPCC
to respond on how they produced their reconstructions and how IPCC
produced their report.
In case you want to look at this see later in the email !
Also this load of rubbish !
This is from an Australian at BMRC (not Neville Nicholls). It began from the attached
article. What an idiot. The scientific community would come down on me in no
uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK it has but it is only
7 years of data and it isn’t statistically significant.
The Australian also alerted me to this blogging ! I think this is the term ! Luckily
I don’t live in Australia.

November 29, 2011 10:09 am

Kevin Schurig
November 29, 2011 10:37 am

Just when the believers thought it was safe to go back into the water.

Man, talk about hanging one’s self with their own rope. A shame the main stream media is deep in bed with the AGW crowd, or this would be one big feeding frenzy.

JPeden
November 29, 2011 11:18 am

“Slippin’ and Sliding, creepin’ and a hiding, I won’t be your fool no more” – Little Richard

Tucci78
November 29, 2011 2:10 pm

At 7:46 AM on 29 November wobble asks of barry:

…. if the hockey stick had been so thoroughly explored, then why didn’t a paleoclimate scientist warn Al Gore not to use it in his movie??

Because Algore is a professional liar as well as a complete bloody ignoramus in the sciences, he’s always deliberately ignored every honest “paleoclimate scientist” willing and able to tell him just what a sack of crap Dr. Mann’s flaming idiot “hockey stick” graph has always been, and the stupid “Liberal” fascist carbon-trading sonofabitch figured he could not only get away with it (An Ever-So-Convienent Fraud was pitched, after all, at people stupid enough to have voted for him) but also make himself the world’s first “carbon billionaire” if he could get away with it.
Motive and opportunity, y’know.

November 29, 2011 8:05 pm

Thoughts from Phil Jones as extracted from emails to “Sheppard Sylv Miss” in response to enquiries from outside individuals
“On your theoretical reasons: these have nothing to do with relationships
between CO2 and temperature. The confidence comes from simple physics.
More CO2 means higher temperature, it has nothing to with how well models
correlate with historic data. Also, if you look at many scenarios of future temperature change,
the emissions scenario makes very little difference until 2040. This means
that what we do now will have hardly any effect on temperature increases until 2040.
The next 30 or so years are predetermined. There will be variability from year to year,
but the level for the 2040s is essentially independent of the emissions scenario.
This is why the sooner we start doing something about CO2 levels the sooner our
children we see some effect.
Cheers
Phil”

Goleb
November 30, 2011 12:19 am

If I am reading the latest Bishop Hill post correctly, it would appear as if as if the BBC even had a hand in the creation of RealClimate, if I am reading this correctly?
“We had an interesting debate on this at the Tyndall Advisory Board last week, and the consensus was very much in line with your views, except for the journalist present (Roger Horobin), who wanted something more pro-active. I am more sympathetic to his view than most of you, I think, but the question is what more would be useful, effective, and not too burdensome ? So far I don’t think I have identified anything, but I do think that the sort of web-page mentioned above would be a start, and so I am copying this to Asher Minns, for him to consider and discuss with John & Mike at Tyndall Central.”
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/11/30/a-meeting-of-the-tyndall-advisory-board.html

A physicist
November 30, 2011 5:06 am

For the date November 29, RealClimate’s thread on the CRU emails has received 66 comments, while WUWT received 8 comments. Moreover the 66 comments on RealClimate — both from skeptics and non-skeptics — convey more information together with deeper rational analysis, relative to the 8 comments on WUWT. And finally, the vigorous give-and-take evident in RealClimate’s 66 comments is entirely lacking in WUWT’s 8 comments.
Why is there such a striking difference in reader participation and informed skepticism? What can WUWT editors do to improve WUWT’s (very important) skeptical contribution to the climate change discussion?

November 30, 2011 5:36 am

A physicist,
RealClimatePropaganda is a failed alarmist blog that has about two dozen nincompoops head-nodding with each other; it is the ultimate censoring echo chamber with no credibility.
The only reason fools like you post here is because of the traffic generated by the Best Science site on the internet. You can’t make it on your own.
You need to run along back to RC to get some new talking points, chump, because the ones you’re using are a total fail. As an educated, blinkerd, know-nothing globaloney tool, you need to wise up… IF you can.☺

JPeden
November 30, 2011 6:09 am

A physicist says:
November 30, 2011 at 5:06 am
For the date November 29, RealClimate’s thread on the CRU emails has received 66 comments, while WUWT received 8 comments.
Maybe you haven’t noticed the rest of the CRU email threads at WUWT? I think I’ve put up well over 8 all by myself within the past 30 hours and have read more of the threads without any comment, which you apparently haven’t even noticed. So your above fake factoid is just more anti-scientific anecdotal “proof” from you involving the oldest thread here – and perhaps even your own nuanced “effect” upon it? – and you give an “argument” as to the scientific credibility of Climate Science on the basis of an irrelevant standard, to boot, one of its.
And finally, the vigorous give-and-take evident in RealClimate’s 66 comments is entirely lacking in WUWT’s 8 comments.
See above, plus argument from “subjectivity” and unwarranted Authority. But, hey, just like a real Climate Scientist! So there’s that to add to your credentials.

Steve Keohane
November 30, 2011 8:21 am

A physicist says: November 30, 2011 at 5:06 am
For the date November 29, RealClimate’s thread on the CRU emails has received 66 comments, while WUWT received 8 comments.

Wrong again! On the threads directly concerning CRU emails, 427 posts were made at WUWT on Nov. 29. That’s not counting the eight you counted on this thread.
[8? Your reply is number 1253 – on this one thread alone. Robt]

Steve Keohane
November 30, 2011 8:40 am

Mod. Robt, the count was for Nov 29th alone, in reference to what “A physicist” was referring to. I was trying to stick up for WUWT!!
[Noted. 8<) ]

Jean Parisot
November 30, 2011 11:53 am

I was looking thru the various emails that discuss the spatial grids used to gerrymander this data, and was wondering if there was a pre-AGW standard for “gridding” climate data to lat/long boxes versus regions of related topography?

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