1 K or not 1 K? That is the question

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

I am very grateful for the many thoughtful postings in response to my outline of the fundamental theoretical upper bound of little more than 1.2 K on climate sensitivity imposed by the process-engineering theory of maintaining the stability of an object on which feedbacks operate. Here are some answers to points raised by correspondents.

Iskandar says, “None of these feedbacks or forcings are ever given in the form of a formula.” In fact, there are functions for the forcings arising from each of the principal species of greenhouse gas: they are tabulated in Myhre et al., 1998, and cited with approval in IPCC (2001. 2007). However, Iskandar is right about temperature feedbacks. Here, the nearest thing to a formula for a feedback is the Clausius-Clapeyron relation, which states that the space occupied by the atmosphere is capable of carrying near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms. However, as Paltridge et al. (2009) have indicated, merely because the atmosphere can carry more water vapor there is no certainty that it does. The IPCC’s values for this and other feedbacks are questionable. For instance, Spencer and Braswell (2010, 2011, pace Dessler, 2010, 2011) have challenged the IPCC’s estimate of the cloud feedback. They find it as strongly negative (attenuating the warming that triggers it) as the IPCC finds it strongly positive (amplifying the original warming), implying a climate sensitivity of less than 1 K. Since feedbacks account for almost two-thirds of all warming in the IPCC’s method, and since it is extremely difficult to measure – still less to provide a formula for – the values of individual temperature feedbacks, an effort such as mine to identify a constraint on the magnitude of all feedbacks taken together is at least worth trying.

Doug says we cannot be sure when the dolomitic rocks were formed. What is certain, however, according to Professor Ian Plimer, who gave me the information, is that they cannot form unless the partial pressure of CO2 above the ocean in which they form is 30%, compared with today’s 0.04%. Yet, during the long era when CO2 concentrations were that high, glaciers came and went, twice, at sea level, and at the equator. Even allowing for the fact that the Sun was a little fainter then, and that the Earth’s albedo was higher, the presence of those glaciers where there are none today does raise some questions about the forcing effect of very high CO2 concentrations, and, a fortiori, about the forcing effect of today’s mere trace concentration. However, in general Doug’s point is right: it is unwise to put too much weight on results from the paleoclimate, particularly when there is so much scientific dispute about the results from today’s climate that we can measure directly.

Dirk H and the inimitable Willis Eschenbach, whose fascinating contributions to this column should surely be collected and published as a best-seller, point out that I am treating feedbacks as linear when some of them are non-linear. For the math underlying non-linear feedbacks, which would have been too lengthy to include in my posting, see e.g. Roe (2009). Roe’s teacher was Dick Lindzen, who is justifiably proud of him. However, for the purpose of the present argument, it matters not whether feedbacks are linear or non-linear: what matters is the sum total of feedbacks as they are in our own time, which is multiplied by the Planck parameter (of which more later) to yield the closed-loop gain whose upper bound was the focus of my posting. Of course I agree with Willis that the non-linearity of many feedbacks, not to mention that all or nearly all of them cannot be measured directly, makes solving the climate-sensitivity equation difficult. But, again, that is why I have tried the approach of examining a powerful theoretical constraint on the absolute magnitude of the feedback-sum. Since the loop gain in the climate object cannot exceed 0.1 (at maximum) without rendering the climate so prone to instability that runaway feedbacks that have not occurred in the past would be very likely to have occurred, the maximum feedback sum before mutual amplification cannot exceed 0.32: yet the IPCC’s implicit central estimate of the feedback sum is 2.81.

Roger Knights rightly takes me to task for a yob’s comma that should not have been present in my posting. I apologize. He also challenges my use of the word “species” for the various types of greenhouse gas: but the word “species” is regularly used by the eminent professors of climatology at whose feet I have sat.

R. de Haan cites an author whose opinion is that warming back-radiation returned from the atmosphere back to the surface and the idea that a cooler system can warm a warmer system are “unphysical concepts”. I know that the manufacturers of some infra-red detectors say the detectors do not measure back-radiation but something else: however, both Mr. de Haan’s points are based on a common misconception about what the admittedly badly-named “greenhouse effect” is. The brilliant Chris Essex explains it thus: when outgoing radiation in the right wavelengths of the near-infrared meets a molecule of a greenhouse gas such as CO2, it sets up a quantum resonance in the gas molecule, turning it into a miniature radiator. This beautifully clear analogy, when I recently used it in a presentation in New Zealand, won the support of two professors of climatology in the audience. The little radiators that the outgoing radiation turns on are not, of course, restricted only to radiating outwards to space. They radiate in all directions, including downwards – and that is before we take into account non-radiative transports such as subsidence and precipitation that bring some of that radiation down to Earth. So even the IPCC, for all its faults, is not (in this respect, at any rate) repealing the laws of thermodynamics by allowing a cooler system to warm a warmer system, which indeed would be an unphysical concept.

Gary Smith politely raised the question whether the apparently sharp ups and downs in the paleoclimate temperature indicated strongly-positive feedbacks. With respect, the answer is No, for two reasons. First, the graph I used was inevitably compressed: in fact, most of the temperature changes in that graph took place over hundreds of thousands or even millions of years. Secondly, it is the maximum variance either side of the long-run mean, not the superficially-apparent wildness of the variances within the mean, that establishes whether or not there is a constraint on the maximum net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.

Nick Stokes asked where the limiting value 0.1 for the closed-loop gain in the climate object came from. It is about an order of magnitude above the usual design limit for net-positive feedbacks in electronic circuits that are not intended to experience runaway feedbacks or to oscillate either side of the singularity in the feedback-amplification equation, which occurs where the loop gain is unity.

David Hoffer wondered what evidence the IPCC had for assuming a linear rise in global temperature over the 21st century given that the radiative forcing from CO2 increases only at a logarithmic (i.e. sub-linear) rate. The IPCC pretends that all six of its “emissions scenarios” are to be given equal weight, but its own preference for the A2 scenario is clear, particularly in the relevant chapter of its 2007 report (ch. 10). See, in particular, fig. 10.26, which shows an exponential rise in both CO2 and temperature, when one might have expected the logarithmicity of the CO2 increase to cancel the exponentiality of the temperature increase. However, on the A2 scenario it is only the anthropogenic fraction of the CO2 concentration that is increased exponentially, and this has the paradoxical effect of making temperature rise near-exponentially too – but only if one assumes the very high climate sensitivity that is impossible given the fundamental constraint on the net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.

DR asks whether anyone has ever actually replicated experimentally the greenhouse effect mentioned by Arrhenius, who in 1895/6 first calculated how much warming a doubling of CO2 concentration would cause. Yes, the greenhouse effect was first demonstrated empirically by John Tyndale at the Royal Institution, London (just round the corner from my club) as far back as 1859. His apparatus can still be seen there. The experiment is quite easily replicated, so we know (even if the SB equation and the existence of a readily-measurable temperature lapse-rate with altitude did not tell us) that the greenhouse effect is real. The real debate is not on whether there is a greenhouse effect (there is), but on how much warming our rather small perturbation of the atmosphere with additional concentrations of greenhouse gases will cause (not a lot).

Werner Brozek asks whether the quite small variations in global surface temperature either side of the billion-year mean indicate that “tipping-points” do not exist. In mathematics and physics the term “tipping-point” is really only used by those wanting to make a political point, usually from a climate-extremist position. The old mathematical term of art, still used by many, was “phase-transition”: now we should usually talk of a “bifurcation” in the evolution of the object under consideration. Since the climate object is mathematically-chaotic (IPCC, 2001, para. 14.2.2.2; Giorgi, 2005; Lorenz, 1963), bifurcations will of course occur: indeed any sufficiently rare extreme-weather event may be a bifurcation. We know that very extreme things can suddenly happen in the climate. For instance, at the end of the Younger Dryas cooling period that brought the last Ice Age to an end, temperatures in Antarctica as inferred from variations in the ratios of different isotopes of oxygen in air trapped in layers under the ice, rose by 5 K (9 F) in just three years. “Now, that, as Ian Plimer likes to say in his lectures, “is climate change!”

But the idea that our very small perturbation in temperature will somehow cause more bifurcations is not warranted by the underlying mathematics of chaos theory. In my own lectures I often illustrate this with a spectacular picture drawn on the Argand plane by a very simple chaotic function, the Mandelbrot fractal function. The starting and ending values for the pixels at top right and bottom left respectively are identical to 12 digits of precision; yet the digits beyond 12 are enough to produce multiple highly-visible bifurcations.

And we know that some forms of extreme weather are likely to become rarer if the world warms. Much – though not all – extreme weather depends not upon absolute temperature but upon differentials in temperature between one altitude or latitude and another. These differentials tend to get smaller as the world warms, so that outside the tropics (and arguably in the tropics too) there will probably be fewer storms.

Roy Clark says there is no such thing as equilibrium in the climate. No, but that does not stop us from trying to do the sums on the assumption of the absence of any perturbation (the equilibrium assumption). Like the square root of -1, it doesn’t really exist, but it is useful to pretend ad argumentum that it might.

Legatus raised a fascinating point about the measurements of ambient radiation that observatories around the world make so that they can calibrate their delicate, heat-sensitive telescopes. He says those measurements show no increase in radiation at the surface (or, rather, on the mountain-tops where most of the telescopes are). However, it is not the surface radiation but the radiation at the top of the atmosphere (or, rather, at the characteristic-emission altitude about 5 km above sea level) that is relevant: and that is 239.4 Watts (no relation) per square meter, by definition, because the characteristic-emission altitude (the outstanding Dick Lindzen’s name for it) is that altitude at which outgoing and incoming fluxes of radiation balance. It is also at that altitude, one optical depth down into the atmosphere, that satellites “see” the radiation coming up into space from the Earth/atmosphere system. Now, as we add greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and cause warming, that altitude will rise a little; and, because the atmosphere contains greenhouse gases and, therefore, its temperature is not uniform, consequent maintenance of the temperature lapse-rate of about 6.5 K/km of altitude will ensure that the surface warms as a result. Since the altitude of the characteristic-emission level varies by day and by night, by latitude, etc., it is impossible to measure directly how it has changed or even where it is.

Of course, it is at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not – repeat not – at the Earth’s surface that the Planck parameter should be derived. So let me do just that. Incoming radiation is, say, 1368 Watts per square meter. However, the Earth presents itself to that radiation as a disk but is actually a sphere, so we divide the radiation by 4 to allow for the ratio of the surface areas of disk and sphere. That gives 342 Watts per square meter. However, 30% of the Sun’s radiation is reflected harmlessly back to space by clouds, snow, sparkling sea surfaces, my lovely wife’s smile, etc., so the flux of relevant radiation at the characteristic-emission altitude is 342(1 – 0.3) = 239.4 Watts per square meter.

From this value, we can calculate the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature directly without even having to measure it (which is just as well, because measuring even surface temperature is problematic). We use the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, the only equation to be named after a Slovene. Stefan found the equation by empirical methods and, a decade or so later, his Austrian pupil Ludwig Boltzmann proved it theoretically by reference to Planck’s blackbody law (hence the name “Planck parameter”, engagingly mis-spelled “plank” by one blogger.

The equation says that radiative flux is equal to the emissivity of the characteristic-emission surface (which we can take as unity without much error when thinking about long-wave radiation), times the Stefan-Boltzmann constant 5.67 x 10^–8 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power, times temperature in Kelvin to the fourth power. So characteristic-emission temperature is equal to the flux divided by the emissivity and by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, all to the power 1/4.: thus, [239.4 / (1 x 5.67 x 10^–8)]^¼ = 254.9 K or thereby.

Any mathematician taking a glance at this equation will at once notice that one needs quite a large change in radiative flux to achieve a very small change in temperature. To find out how small, one takes the first differential of the equation, which (assuming emissivity to be constant) is simply the temperature divided by four times the flux: so, 254.9 / (4 x 239.4) = 0.2662 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. However, the IPCC (2007, p. 631, footnote) takes 0.3125 and, in its usual exasperating way, without explaining why. So a couple of weeks ago I asked Roy Spencer and John Christy for 30 years of latitudinally-distributed surface temperature data and spent a weekend calculating the Planck parameter at the characteristic-emission altitude for each of 67 zones of latitude, allowing for latitudinal variations in insolation and adjusting for variations in the surface areas of the zones. My answer, based on the equinoxes and admittedly ignoring seasonal variations in the zenith angles of the Sun at each latitude, was 0.316. So I’ve checked, and the IPCC has the Planck parameter right. Therefore, it is of course the IPCC’s value that I used in my calculations in my commentary for Remote Sensing, except in one place.

Kiehl & Trenberth (1997) publish a celebrated Earth/atmosphere energy-budget diagram in which they show 390 Watts per square meter of outgoing radiative flux from the surface, and state that this is the “blackbody” value. From this, we know that – contrary to the intriguing suggestion made by Legatus that one should simply measure it – they did not attempt to find this value by measurement. Instead, they were taking surface emissivity as unity (for that is what defines a blackbody), and calculating the outgoing flux using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation. The surface temperature, which we can measure (albeit with some uncertainty) is 288 K. So, in effect, Kiehl and Trenberth are saying that they used the SB equation at the Earth’s surface to determine the outgoing surface flux, thus: 1 x 5.67 x 10^–8 x 288^4 = 390.1 Watts per square meter.

Two problems with this. First, the equation holds good only at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not at the surface. That is why, once I had satisfied myself that the IPCC’s value at that altitude was correct, I said in my commentary for Remote Sensing that the IPCC’s value was correct, and I am surprised to find that a blogger had tried to leave her readers with a quite different impression even after I had clarified this specific point to her.

Secondly, since Kiehl and Trenberth are using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation at the surface in order to obtain their imagined (and perhaps imaginary) outgoing flux of 390 Watts per square meter, it is of course legitimate to take the surface differential of the equation that they themselves imply that they had used, for in that we we can determine the implicit Planck parameter in their diagram. This is simply done: 288 / (4 x 390) = 0.1846 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. Strictly speaking, one should also add the non-radiative transports of 78 Watts per square meter for evapo-transpiration and 24 for thermal convection (see Kimoto, 2009, for a discussion) to the 390 Watts per square meter of radiative flux, reducing Kiehl and Trenberth’s implicit Planck parameter from 0.18 to 0.15. Either 0.15 or 0.18 gives a climate sensitivity ~1 K. So the Planck parameter I derived at this point in my commentary, of course, not the correct one: nor is it “Monckton’s” Planck parameter, and the blogger who said it was had been plainly told all that I have told you, though in a rather more compressed form because she had indicated she was familiar with differential calculus. It is not Monckton’s Planck parameter, nor even Planck’s Planck parameter, and it is certainly not a plank parameter – but it is Kiehl & Trenberth’s Planck parameter. If they were right (and, of course, I was explicit in using the conditional in my commentary to indicate, in the politest possible way, that they were not), then, like it or not, they were implying a climate sensitivity a great deal lower than they had perhaps realized – in fact a sensitivity of around 1 K. I do regret that a quite unnecessary mountain has been made out of this surely simple little molehill – just one of more than a dozen points in a wide-ranging commentary.

And just to confirm that it should really have been obvious to everyone that the IPCC’s value of the Planck parameter is my value, I gave that value as the correct one both in my commentary and in my recent blog posting on the fundamental constraint on feedback loop gain. You will find it, with its derivation, right at the beginning of that posting, and encapsulated in Eq. (3).

Thank you all again for your interest. This discussion has generally been on a far higher plane than is usual with climate discussions. I hope that these further points in answer to commentators will be helpful.

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Joel Shore
October 1, 2011 6:34 pm

davidmhoffer says:

You are implying that CO2 increases are accelerarting which the record does NOT show, they are in fact nearly linear.

No…The rate of increase of CO2 levels in the atmosphere has about doubled over the last 40 years: http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/co2-shame/

That said, you have once again evaded the question. I asked you to propose a feedback mechanism that would result in linear temperature increases versus logarithmic effects of CO2. By insinuating the CO2 levels are accelerating, you’ve ducked the question, which has nothing to do with them acclerating or decelerating. The question was, what possible feedback mechanism could result in a linear temperature increase in the face of logarithmic effects of CO2?

Maybe I don’t understand your question. I have assumed that you mean, “How can temperature increase linearly with time when the effect of CO2 on temperature is logarithmic?” And, the answer is by having CO2 concentration increase more rapidly than linearly with time, which is what it has been doing.
If you are asking another question, could you please make it clear what that question is? (I am not sure why you are hung up on feedbacks changing the dependence. Feedbacks are expected to increase the climate sensitivity but aren’t expected to change the logarithmic dependence on concentration, which is why one talks of climate sensitivity in terms of a doubling of CO2 levels.

Joel Shore
October 1, 2011 6:43 pm

davidmhoffer says:

Read the whole thing again Joel. you can’t keep moving the yard stick from one place to another. Actual observations BTW, back me up. Look at either NASA/GISS or HadCrut broken down by latitude and by season and you will see that the distribution is what I described. You can argue as to why, but you can’t argue with the results. Summers have increased in temp the least, winters the most. Tropics the least, high latitudes…well almost… the high mids actually show more than the arctic zones by a bit. But over all, the data doesn’t support you.

What is it that I have said that the data does not support? You haven’t cited anything I said that is contradicted by the data. I agree that the higher latitudes are generally warming more than the tropics and am willing to believe you on the seasonal stuff. However, it is also true that the land areas of warming more than the oceans…and everything I have said about the relative weight that the land areas and the various parts of the globe are given in computing the average global temperature is correct.
We both agree that representing the temperature change by one number is an oversimplification. However, you seem to want to focus solely on the way you think the one number overstates the problem and ignore the ways in which it understates the problem (and also the ways in which the overstatement is really not that great…since one of my points is that the polar regions are given quite small weight in an average over the earth’s surface and the tropics are given a quite large weight simply because of the relative areas that they occupy on the globe).

October 1, 2011 7:39 pm

Septic Matthew says:

Since Kimoto used the same relationship (assuming for now that I am right) as Hansen (cited above) why the critique of Kimoto but not Hansen?

Kimoto did not use the same relation as Hansen. Hansen took the derivative of his function correctly; Kimoto did not. The difference between Hansen and Kimoto’s function and their derivatives is addressed in my recent blog post.

October 1, 2011 8:53 pm

Joel Shore;
No…The rate of increase of CO2 levels in the atmosphere has about doubled over the last 40 years: http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/co2-shame/>>>
You’re using Tamino as a reference? LOL.
Here’s the link (scroll down to mid page) for the OFFICIAL records from Muana Loa.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/co2_data_mlo.html
If we use 278 PPM for 1920, and guesstimate from the graph we get:
1920 278
1960 310
1970 325
1990 355
2010 390
So:
1920 to 1960 ~ 0.75 ppm/yr
1960 to 1990 ~ 1.50 ppm/yr
1970 to 1990 ~ 1.50 ppm/yr
1990 to 2010 ~ 1.75 ppm/yr
40 years being since 1970, looks roughly linear to me, and the same from the ten years before that. Where’s the rate of increase that has doubled? I clicked the link to Tamino’s article and skimmed through it to the part where he decides to calculate the year over year increase based on a single month from each year. Why would one choose a single month from each year on record at Muana Loa (where he says he gets his data) when ALL the months are published? Why use only 1/12 of the available data?
Can we say BUSTED?

October 1, 2011 9:00 pm

David Hoffer says:
“I clicked the link to Tamino’s article and skimmed through it to the part where he decides to calculate the year over year increase based on a single month from each year. Why would one choose a single month from each year on record at Muana Loa (where he says he gets his data) when ALL the months are published? Why use only 1/12 of the available data?”
Excellent point. Here is the past 80 years of December temperatures. No change in trend at all.

Septic Matthew
October 1, 2011 9:32 pm

Lucia,
thanks.
You have a lot of active threads, and I didn’t see which one was relevant.
Kimoto/Monckton (seem to) assume that two terms are sufficiently small that they can be neglected. As I understand your request for a complete list of assumptions, you want them to say so explicitly and justify it.

Septic Matthew
October 1, 2011 9:48 pm

Lucia,
You wrote this in your comment # 82711 (if I have your numbering down pat): “Don
Do you have in mind an estimation of climate sensitivity for a doubling of C02?
Lucia “My thoughts are it’s in the lower end of the range discussed by the IPCC. That said, I do not have extremely strong technical reasons for this, and have never claimed to have any. I think I have some technical reasons– but they are not of the sort that permit any tight bound on the magnitude of climate sensitivity.””
It seems that you have drawn a conclusion compatible with Lord Monckton, but have a different set of intuitions about which terms in the various derivations to neglect/downweight/ignore/omit.
I have no quarrel with that. I think that all of the derivations are based on counterfactual assumptions (equilibrium, etc.) and so none of the results can be expected to have the hoped for accuracy. But to assail Lord Monckton for lack of rigor, and then to assert intuitively a conclusion that is so concordant with his, while not telling us any of your intuitions, strikes me as discordant.
Since we can’t even know for sure that the climate sensitivity is independent of temperature, it seems to me that you are quarreling over minor details when the biggest uncertainty is ignored.

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 5:52 am

davidmhoffer says:

If we use 278 PPM for 1920, and guesstimate from the graph we get:
1920 278
1960 310
1970 325
1990 355
2010 390
So:
1920 to 1960 ~ 0.75 ppm/yr
1960 to 1990 ~ 1.50 ppm/yr
1970 to 1990 ~ 1.50 ppm/yr
1990 to 2010 ~ 1.75 ppm/yr
40 years being since 1970, looks roughly linear to me, and the same from the ten years before that. Where’s the rate of increase that has doubled? …
Can we say BUSTED?

I am afraid it is you who are busted here. Your value for 1960 is quite a bit off…The actual yearly average was 317 ppm ( ftp://ftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccg/co2/trends/co2_annmean_mlo.txt ). (I also think your 1920 value might be somewhat low, but we’ll ignore that.) Using this correction (and the actual values for the other years too…although you got those mainly okay), we get:
1920 to 1960 ~ 1.0 ppm/yr
1960 to 1990 ~ 1.25 ppm/yr
1970 to 1990 ~ 1.4 ppm/yr
1990 to 2010 ~ 1.8 ppm/yr
So, the rate of increase has been pretty steadily rising. Your method is a bit clunky (e.g., averaging over such large periods and not consistent time intervals) and if you went down further on the very page that you linked to ( http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/co2_data_mlo.html ), you would have seen that they look at the increase over time 10 year intervals. Their 1960-1970 value about 0.85 ppm and their 2000-2010 value is right about at 2.0 ppm, in perfect agreement with my statement (and tamino’s analysis) showing that “the rate of increase of CO2 levels in the atmosphere has about doubled over the last 40 years”!
So, your very own source contradicts you and supports me and tamino on the very page that you linked to! Go figure!!!

I clicked the link to Tamino’s article and skimmed through it to the part where he decides to calculate the year over year increase based on a single month from each year. Why would one choose a single month from each year on record at Muana Loa (where he says he gets his data) when ALL the months are published? Why use only 1/12 of the available data?

As I have shown, this is irrelevant, since one gets the same result doing it other ways (such as using the average value for the year). In fact, I am rather curious why you would think it would make such a significant difference? This alone should have been a clue to you that your analysis was likely flawed!

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 5:54 am

Smokey:
Thanks for the completely irrelevant link! That was…ah…very useful.

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 6:00 am

davidmhoffer,
Just to be clear about which graph on the page I am referring to, it is this one: http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/webdata/ccgg/trends/co2_data_mlo_anngr.pdf

October 2, 2011 7:49 am

davidmhoffer says:
October 1, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Joel Shore;
I clicked the link to Tamino’s article and skimmed through it to the part where he decides to calculate the year over year increase based on a single month from each year. Why would one choose a single month from each year on record at Muana Loa (where he says he gets his data) when ALL the months are published? Why use only 1/12 of the available data?
Can we say BUSTED?

Indeed you are! Tamino uses all the data.

October 2, 2011 10:09 am

Joel Shore says:
“Thanks for the completely irrelevant link!”
That completely relevant link was in response to David Hoffer’s comment: “Why would one choose a single month from each year on record at Muana Loa (where he says he gets his data) when ALL the months are published? Why use only 1/12 of the available data?” Tamino cherry-picked one particular month, so I did too in order to expose his shenanigans.
You just don’t like it because of the anti-alarmist implications.
And please stop referring to that clown tamino. He’s irrelevant in this debate. If you can’t make your own arguments without tamino as a crutch it’s an admission that you can’t think for yourself.

Editor
October 2, 2011 10:35 am

Some people seem to be confused by Tamino’s method. So I went to his site, held my nose, and took a look. I say “held my nose” because Tamino censors his site, and that always makes his “science” stink … but on the other hand he’s usually a pretty reliable mathematician.
David Hoffer claims that Tamino has chosen a single month of the year to use for his analysis. This is not true. Actually, Tamino uses all of the data in a monthly “year-over-year” type analysis.
Rather than taking yearly averages of the monthly data and then getting the year-by-year change from that, Tamino is looking at finer-grained detail. To do this, for EACH MONTH IN THE RECORD he subtracts the corresponding value from 12 months previous … which gives him a rather jagged curve. He then rams a straight line though it, an ugly procedure, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that his graph contains each and every month.
Why does all this have to be so hard?
w.

October 2, 2011 10:49 am

Thanx Willis, I never clicked on tamino’s blog on principle. I replied to Joel Shore’s response. Thank you for explaining how tamino did it.

October 2, 2011 11:02 am

Willis; Phil;
I didn’t read all the way through Tamino’s article, I stopped at yearly month over month. I stand corrected.
Joel;
Thanks for the link to the more detailed page. Based on that, starting in 1970 and going in 10 year invrements we get roughly:
1960 to 70 ~0.85
1970 to 80 ~1.3
1980 to 90 ~1.6
1990 to 2000 ~1.5
2000 to 2010 ~2.0
One can cherry pick which intervals to compare I suppose. But I never meant to argue that what the rate of increase was. My point, if you go back to the original discussion, is that one cannot propose a feedback mechanism to a a “forcing” that is logarithmic that results in a linear temperature response. Your reply to me was based on the assumption that I was ignoring the accelerating increases in CO2 which would serve to counter act the logarithmic effects of CO2. In order for this to be the case, the increases in CO2 would have to be exponential in the same orger of magnitude that CO2 is logarithmic. We can see from the results from the various links that from 1970 to 2000 the levels were nearly linear, but there were sharp upticks 60-70 and 00-10.
So, I’ll agree to “roughly double” over the last 40 years (very roughly), but that doesn’t answer the original question that I posed.
What feedback mechanism could result in linear or exponential increaeses in temperature based on the logarithmic forcing effects of CO2? Do be specific, a linear increase in CO2?

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 12:35 pm

davidmhoffer says:

What feedback mechanism could result in linear or exponential increaeses in temperature based on the logarithmic forcing effects of CO2? Do be specific, a linear increase in CO2?

Well, now that we are on the same page regarding how to compute things and what the data for CO2 concentration shows, let’s look at the numbers: Over the last 40 years, the rate of CO2 increase (dC/dt where C is concentration of CO2 and t is time) has roughly doubled. The logarithmic dependence of temperature on concentration T = A*log(C/C_0) means that the derivative dT/dC is proportional to 1/C (the constant of proportionality being irrelevant for the purposes here).
Now, what we are interested in is the slope of the curve of T vs t, i.e., dT/dt. Since
dT/dt = (dC/dt)*(dT/dC), we can compare this slope in 1970 to what it is now using the fact that concentration has gone from ~326ppm to 390ppm and dC/dt has roughly doubled. What we get is an increase in the slope by a factor of 1.67. So, over the last 40 years we would expect that the increasing rate of CO2 increase has more than kept up with the decrease in dT/dC with increasing concentration to produce a significantly-faster than linear rise in temperature due to the CO2 forcing. (The actual temperature rise seen has complications due to additional forcings that are present plus natural variation…although it certainly exhibits a dramatic change between 1970 and now, although that change was mainly in the early part of the record.)
What will happen in the future depends on assumptions for the growth rate of C with time…but it is certainly not difficult to imagine scenarios in which such a faster than linear rise continues and, in fact, it may be difficult to contrive scenarios where it doesn’t…at least under the assumption that we don’t make any attempt to regulate CO2 emissions.
Note: This all has nothing to do with feedback mechanisms. As I have said, to the first approximation at least, what feedbacks do is increase the coefficient…They don’t change the dependence.

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 1:04 pm

Actually, I think it is pretty easy to say to first order what the criterion for a linear rise is: Currently, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere C are increasing at a rate of ~0.5% per year, which means that because of the logarithmic dependence of temperature on concentration, dT/dC ~ 1/C is decreasing by about 0.5% per year. So, as long as the rate of CO2 concentration increase is faster than this, you will get super-linear increases. So far, the rate of CO2 concentration increase seems to be proportional to our emissions, so this means that as long as our emissions increase by 0.5% per year, dT/dt will be linear. If our emissions increase by less than that, it will be sublinear and if they increase by more than that, it will be superlinear.
This holds as long as you don’t go out too far into the future (i.e., as long as the approximation that C is increasing by about 0.5% per year is a reasonable one).

Legatus
October 2, 2011 3:14 pm

To Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Re. Monckton’s letter to the journal Remote Sensing
Your idea here is all very well to show that, using the IPCC’s math and figures, their number for climate forcing is not correct, however, there may be an easier way, especially when we are originally talking about a journal called remote SENSING. That is, simply show that the SENSING that the IPCC’s math uses cannot be true.
First, one needs to ask, has the IPCC actually done any remote sensing? That is to say, is this entirely a theoretical exercise and not based on any actual observation at all? Regardless of whether the IPCC’ math is correct or not, if they have no actual observational evidence to plug into their math, it is irrelevant. Therefore, it would be wise to point out where the IPCC is basing their conclusions on reality, and where on fiction. If they have not done any actual remote sensing, the journal remote sensing should reject it as fiction.
Second, let us see if the blackbody flux of 390 W m–2 as more or less correct. When I look here http://principia-scientific.org/publications/New_Concise_Experiment_on_Backradiation.pdf , the only site I know of currently that has done an actual direct obserevation of thus flux (you know, remote sensing), I see the max reported flux as 336W. That is close enough to 390W to expect that the average of “total radiative forcing from the five principal greenhouse gases (H2O, CO2, CH4, O3, and N2O)” given as “~101 W m–2” should also be observed. However, when I look at this link, the direct observation is actually 65.96W. Thus, when the surface is fairly close to the 390W the IPCC accepts, the actual measured atmospheric flux downward is only some two thirds that. Thus strongly suggests that the IPCC’s number for atmospheric flux is fictitional. A journal called remote SENSING should be more inclined to numbers based on actual sensing in place than numbers that are largely theoretical. For that matter, any reasonable person must now ask themselves the question, ‘who are you going to believe, us college professors or your lying eyes?’. Conclusion so far, even if we accept the IPCC’s sensitivity, their total temperature rise for the planet is now down from 3C to 2C since the radiative flux that it is based on has been actually observed as only 2/3rds of what they claim it is.
But let us now say that we accept the IPCC’s number of “~101 W m–2”, even though it does not coorespond even closely to actual remote sensing. How do we know that all of that 101W are backscattering, absorbtion and redirection downward of infrared radiation originally emitted by the surface? Do not heated objects, objects that may be heated by methods other than absorbing infrared radiation, also emit infrared radiation? So, if the surface is heated by the sun, might there be some “evapo-transpiration” and “thermal convection”? If there is, we now have rising hot water and rising hot air. These, being hot, will also emit infrared radiation, will they not? So, that 101W we say is all backscatter by greenhouse gasses actually must consist of at least some gasses that did NOT receive their heat from absorbing infrared, but by other means. That means that only a portion of the infrared we are detecting (or, in the IPCC”s case, not bothering to) is caused by backscatter, a signifigent portion of it is simply caused by heated water and air heated by other means than radiative flux. How much, then is actually backscatter, and how much simply a lot of hot air, literally?
To sum up:
Unless the IPCC has actually done some remote sensing, the journal remote sensing should reject their ideas as fiction.
Real world remote sensing reports vastly different numbers than the IPCC accepts as true, so different that the IPCC numbers are extremely suspect.
The detected radiative flux cannot be all from backscatter, but must also be from other sources, so an increase of backscatter may only be a percentage of what they claim it to be.
My conclusion is that the actual increase of temperature from a given increase of CO2 will be lucky to be half of what the IPCC claims, even if their claimed climate sensitivity is completely correct.

John Whitman
October 2, 2011 3:48 pm

Monckton of Brenchley says:
September 30, 2011 at 3:36 pm
[ . . . ] The correct approach is dispassionate, [ . . . ]
——————
Christopher Monckton of Brenchley,
Yes.
Nor is it negative or positive in any sense or context. It is stark and yet because of that benevolent.
John

October 2, 2011 4:42 pm

Joel Shore;
We’re getting somewhere now!
But too much detail and not on topic (per se) and so I’ll send you something directly in a day or two in order to facilitate the discussion. I trust your email address hasn’t changed?

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 5:05 pm

Legatus:
(1) The IPCC doesn’t itself do scientific investigations. Their role is to summarize and synthesize the peer-reviewed scientific results from the literature.
(2) Speaking of fiction, that is the category under which you should file anything by Nasif Nahle (and Principia Scientific). Seriously, you can’t just accept anything you find on the internet at face value. Nasif, in particular, has shown that he can’t even understand the most basic concepts such as the need for the geometrical factor of 4 to convert between the solar constant and the radiative intensity in W/m^2 impinging on the earth. Principia Scientific is the “Slaying the Sky Dragons” organization which specializes in deciminating complete nonsense.
(3) Remote sensing is a well-developed scientific and technological field. If there were very basic surprises such as those regarding the amount of radiation emanating from the earth’s surface, don’t you think they would have been discovered by now? I recommend that you approach this with a little bit of common sense.

Joel Shore
October 2, 2011 5:06 pm

david: I guess I am confused then about what the topic is that you want to discuss…but, yes, the e-mail address you used before is still good.

Editor
October 2, 2011 5:30 pm

Legatus, I’d never read Nahle’s piece, although I’d interacted with him on a listserve and found his theories … well, let me call them out of the ordinary. So I went to take a look at the site you recommended. He says he’s measuring longwave radiation. Here’s his description:

1 Radiometer Kimo, Model SAM 20. Range 1 to 1400 W/m^2. Spectral Response 0.1 to 1.4 μm.

Summary of the Experiment
September 9, 2011; it is 21:00 hrs CST [night time – w.]. I point my radiometer towards a clear sky in an angle of 90° with respect to ground surface and stand waiting thirty seconds until the instrument calculates the average of a set of records of thermal radiation received on its sensors each one second. Recorded Thermal Radiation = 61.93W.

OK, pointing his “radiometer” upwards at night he measures 62 W/m2. That seems way too low to me. So I figure I’ll take a look at his equipment.
To my surprise, I find it described as a “solarimeter”, with the following specs:

Brand : KIMO
Manufacturer Ref. : SAM 20
Measurement and prompt control of solar power (W/m²).
Calculate the accumulated energy in Wh/m².
Store and record the averages values.
Solar power measurement range: 1W/m² to 1300 W/m².
Accumulated energy measurement range: 1 Wh/m² to 500 kwh/m².
Storage capacity: 3 days.
Solar cell cable length: 1.25m.
Supplied with calibration certificate.

So what he is using is an accumulating solar measurement tool. It is designed to collect information, not on longwave “greenhouse” radiation, but on instantaneous and cumulative sunshine.
Using a solarimeter to measure the IR from the night sky? Wrong tool. Color me unimpressed … people who deny downwelling longwave radiation (DLR) are off the rails. Google can provide a host of real measurements from around the planet. I analyzed the DLR measurements from the TAO buoys here, they average about 420 W/m2. Nasif Nahle is blowing smoke, Legatus. Leave him alone.
w.

Monckton of Brenchley
October 2, 2011 10:41 pm

The blogger who has said both here and elsewhere that I erred in including non-radiative transports in differentiating a radiative-transfer equation made at least the following errors in her math:
Error 1: If I was wrong, then so was she, for she implicitly included non-radiative transports in that differential throughout her first email to me, where she discussed it at length without mentioning that I had included two non-radiative transports in a radiative-transfer differential. Instead, she went on to do exactly the same herself, discussing at some length whether I had used “+” in that differentiation when I should have used “-“.
Error 2: Once she had made the mistake of alleging that I had used an incorrect sign she did not admit it or apologize for it. In subsequent material she shifted her ground and began accusing me of having taken the allegedly erroneous step that she had herself made in her first email in overlooking the two non-radiative terms in the radiative-transfer differential and concentrating, inappositely, on whether a wrong sign had been used.
Error 3: Also in her first email she wrote, “This value of delta-T/delta-F is then identified as the Plank [sic] Constant.” Here and in several other places, she spells “Planck” as “Plank” or even “plank”. This oft-repeated error bespeaks unfamiliarity with the territory, and with the great physicist whose blackbody law was the basis of Boltzmann’s theoretical demonstration of the equation that his professor Stefan (the only Slovene after whom an equation is named) had derived empirically. In passing, I note that on her own blog she indulged without any comment a far greater error than the one she had alleged against me, in that one of her commenters (a climate campaigner with a shaky knowledge of math) had said the fundamental equation of radiative transfer models only blackbodies. This is admittedly a widespread error: the Astronomer Royal is among others who have made it. But, of course, one of the four parameters in the equation is that for emissivity, so that the equation can model blackbodies such as the Sun [emissivity 1] and (with respect to long-wave radiation) the Earth; whitebodies [emissivity 0]; and all the graybodies in between [emissivity on the interval (0, 1)].
Error 4: No, I did not “identify” the differential in question as the “Plank” constant, nor even as the Planck constant. This is perhaps the central math error in the blogger’s collection. In my Commentary for Remote Sensing, I wrote: “If the surface radiative flux were indeed the blackbody flux of 390 W m–2, then by differentiation of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer the implicit value of the Planck parameter would be …”. I try (at least some of the time) to point out errors gently, politely, and as indirectly as possible.
Error 5: The blogger compounds Error 4 by saying, in one of her comments: “Monckton’s calculation is based on the premise that those numbers are true.” Actually, as the text quoted from my Commentary under Error 4 surely makes plain, my calculation is based on the premise that Kiehl & Trenberth’s numbers are false, but that if they were true (note the protasis) then the implicit value of the Planck parameter would be (note the apodosis). This is a conditional, not a premise, and, in mathematics, which depends upon and is the highest expression of logic, such distinctions are far from trivial.
Error 6: The blogger further compounds Error 4 by saying, again in her first email, that this particular implicit – and implicitly erroneous – “Plank” parameter ” is used in what she called “further evaluations” by me. Yet all but one of the other 14 climate sensitivities ~1 K that I had sketched out in the Commentary plainly did not depend on any knowledge of the value of the Planck parameter, and in that single instance I had correctly used the IPCC’s value for the Planck parameter.
Error 7: The blogger yet further compounds Error 4 by heading one of her blog postings “Monckton’s Planck parameter …”, and adding something about things being pulled out of a hat. There is a further reference to a magician pulling rabbits out of a hat in one of her comments, and several to the notion that Monckton can be relied upon to get things wrong, writes like Barbara Cartland [I should be so lucky] etc., etc. However, since I had not in any way adopted or endorsed the implicit value of the Planck parameter that I had deduced in Kiehl & Trenberth’s paper, to call it “Monckton’s” Planck parameter is less than reasonable, especially as I had written both in my original Commentary and in my first email in answer to her question about the allegedly incorrect sign in the differential that I regarded the IPCC’s value as correct.
Error 8: Even after I had explicitly told the blogger, twice, that I accepted the IPCC’s value of the Planck parameter, she headed one of three successive and inappropriately-worded attacks on me with the words “Monckton’s Planck parameter …”. The spelling was right this time, but her error in calling it my Planck parameter does not appear to have been a mere inadvertence. As far as I can see on her blog, she has still not gotten around to telling her readers the central fact in this affair – that I accept, and stated not only in my Commentary for Remote Sensing but also in my first email in response to hers – that the IPCC’s value of the Planck parameter is correct. From this it follows that nothing of the slightest consequence follows from my following Kimoto in not following Kiehl and Trenberth in deriving the surface outgoing radiative flux solely from the surface temperature, when that temperature is influenced not only by radiative but also by non-radiative transports, and is also influenced not by surface radiation, with which it cannot therefore be rigidly liked via the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, but by radiation at the characteristic-emission altitude, about 5 km above mean sea level.
Error 9: The blogger appears not to have kept in mind the atmospheric mechanism that operates here, which is that an increase in radiative flux at the characteristic-emission altitude raises that altitude; and, since the temperature lapse-rate is constant, the effect is to increase atmospheric temperature all the way down to the surface. At one point she seems to imply that temperature causes radiative flux, when it is of course the other way about. Kiehl & Trenberth were incorrect to assume that one can apply the fundamental equation of radiative transfer strictly at the Earth’s surface to derive outgoing radiative flux from it, so as (again, proceeding in the wrong direction) to derive a value for surface outgoing radiation from the measured value for surface temperature, not least because that measured value is dependent not only on the radiative transport but also on the non-radiative transports from the surface. Evaporation, for instance, cools the surface, and does so at a rate thrice that in the models. Kimoto, whom I had cited, was doing his best to make some allowance for Kiehl & Trenberth’s error here.
Error 10: The blogger seems unaware, though my Commentary mentioned it, that even if one makes the mistake of trying to take a differential of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the Earth’s surface, one must most certainly make proper allowance for latitudinal variation. Though that great equation models temperature in such a way that zonal-mean temperatures derived using the equation sum remarkably to within 0.5 K absolute of the global value that the equation determines, the same is not true of the differential. At the characteristic-emission altitude, for instance, the IPCC’s value 0.313 K/W/m2 for the Planck parameter is 17% greater than the differential, precisely to allow for latitudinal variation. I have recently revisited my own calculations, using 30 years of absolute mid-troposphere temperatures kindly made available by the eminent Roy Spencer and John Christy of UAH, and my latest result, applied to 67 distinct zones of latitude, is 0.313 K/W/m2. The IPCC, therefore, has this one right as far as I can see: and I wish they had explained themselves a lot more clearly on this and many other matters, rather than burying their value of the Planck parameter in a footnote on p. 631 of the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report. But Kiehl & Trenberth – even if they had been right to use the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the surface in the way they did – were certainly wrong in not having made any allowance for latitudinal variation, which would produce an appreciably smaller value for outgoing radiative flux than the 390 K they show in their celebrated diagram. The blogger did not notice this, and instead stated – entirely incorrectly – that I had accepted Kiehl & Trenberth’s values, even after I had told her plainly that I did not. Frankly, very little rides on whether I, as an interested layman, am right about Kiehl & Trenberth’s implicit surface value of the Planck parameter. But quite a lot rides on their much-cited diagram. Would it not be a better use of the blogger’s time to check the math where it matters, and where major conclusions are drawn from it, and not where it simply doesn’t matter, and where I drew no conclusion from it at all except that if Kiehl & Trenberth were right then a low climate sensitivity would be expected?
Error 11: At one point in the blogger’s numerous comments, it seems plain that she was at that time unaware that expressing the differential delta-T/delta-F in the form T/(4F) is entirely correct. Indeed, it is derivable with very little difficulty from the functionally-identical form deployed (albeit with a typographical error) by Hansen in Eq. (13) of his pioneering paper of 1984, and is commonly used throughout the literature on climate sensitivity. Whether one should include the non-radiative transports, as I followed Kimoto in doing, as a way of correcting for Kiehl & Trenberth’s error is a separate question. Aside from that point, the form of the differential we were using is correct.
Error 12: Following on from Error 9, the blogger that Hansen’s Eq. (3) did not present the same differential that I had used. No, of course not. It was his Eq. (13) that contained the differential, albeit in a different but functionally-identical form, and albeit that by an important typo that got past peer-review it omitted a vital factor 4.
Error 13: The blogger did not seem to understand, in her first email, that a differential is merely a snapshot of a particular point on a curve and that, therefore, the values of the variables whose relation to one another it establishes will not be likely to remain constant (except under very limited conditions that plainly do not apply here).
Error 14: So unfamiliar is the blogger with the term “fundamental equation of radiative transfer” that she attributes its usage to me: (“which you call …”). Yet the term is used throughout the literature. Again, this seems to indicate that the blogger has wandered into a field with which she is not really familiar.
Error 15: The blogger says in one of her dozens of comments on this non-issue that “It might almost be worth submitting articles rebutting things in [Energy & Environment], but I estimate 90% of the things in that Journal are wrong.” On what evidence? If I am expected to justify everything, “for that”, as she put it in an email to me, “is what we expect undergraduates to do”, surely what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander? Where’s the justification for “90%”? If there’s no justification, was it reasonable to criticize me perhaps too often and too impolitely for an error which – even if it was an error – she herself made: indeed, an error of a character (albeit in the opposite direction) that Kiehl & Trenberth also made, in not appreciating that surface temperature is not governed stricto sensu by the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the surface, not least because temperature is influenced by the non-radiative transports?
Error 16: The blogger said my Commentary for Remote Sensing was largely irrelevant to a discussion of Spencer & Braswell’s paper on the cloud feedback, which he finds as strongly negative as the IPCC finds it strongly positive. However, the opening sentence of my Commentary made it clear that I was responding to Trenberth’s Commentary on Spencer & Braswell’s paper in that journal. Trenberth had cited ten papers that had attempted to determine climate sensitivity empirically: my own Commentary pointed out, inter alia, and surely not unreasonably, that four of these found climate sensitivity low, and that there were many other papers, not cited by Trenberth, that also found low sensitivities.
Finally, there were many unkindnesses and discourtesies in this blogger’s postings, her comments, and her entire approach. Others here have pointed these out. It is unfortunate that she was so very determined to fault-find right from the get-go that she threw both math and manners to the winds.

Legatus
October 2, 2011 10:56 pm

Oh well, Nahle out, TAO dataset in. This reminds me of a quote, “when the data changes, I change my mind, what do you do sir?
The bad news, I lost what I thought was a set of actual longwave data, although I will admit I only used it because it was all I had, and was pretty sure that Nahle’s idea that there was no backscatter was wrong (it making no sense). Thought I was on to something there to…
The good news, at least I now know where to look for at least some actual longwave data.
Now where can I find out:
Longwave data change over many decades (if any), and…
How the IPCC (and anyone else) tells how much of this longwave is backscatter and how much is simply hot air and water rising?
Two posters to this site reported ancedotal evidence that said that longwave radiation had not changed over up to 35 years. If true, that means that since CO2 has increased, it caused no effect that could cause CAGW. However, now that I see that the skies radiation is 420W, it may simply be that the amount is so small compared to that that they cannot see it from the noise. If there is an amount, then the question is, is a few Watts enough for any noticable warming? If we have a reliable decades long longwave dataset, we can detirmine this. The key word is reliable.
And now I wonder such things as:
Should we see more backscatter in areas where CO2 is higher (all else being equel)?
If we do not, does this invalidate CAGW?
If we are downwind of a major urban area (a good place to find a CO2 pocket), is any increase in longwave due to backscatter or simply rising hot air from the city?
Do urban heat island effects also show up as longwave from the sky, backscatter of the UHI?
Are there any CO2 pockets at sea, where we would not have UHI effects?
Also, now I wouold like to see longwave compared to accurate (as in no UHI) temerature measurements, to see if warming from El Nino or solar activity, or cooling from valcanic activity or La Nina, also change backscatter and warm air rising that also contributing to longwave (assuming one can tell one from the other). After all, just because there is more longwave does not mean it caused warming, it may be the other way around. If longwave can be local, that is, a hot urban area increases local longwave, then I would want longwave measurements from rural areas, or ocean areas. And i would really like to see longwave measured before 1950, when there was noticably less man made CO2 (or so they say), if longwave during the warmer times back then (say 1938) was the same as similarly warm times now, then warmth causes backscatter, backscatter does not cause warmth, and thus CO2 does not increase backscatter, or not enough to matter.