1 K or not 1 K? That is the question

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

I am very grateful for the many thoughtful postings in response to my outline of the fundamental theoretical upper bound of little more than 1.2 K on climate sensitivity imposed by the process-engineering theory of maintaining the stability of an object on which feedbacks operate. Here are some answers to points raised by correspondents.

Iskandar says, “None of these feedbacks or forcings are ever given in the form of a formula.” In fact, there are functions for the forcings arising from each of the principal species of greenhouse gas: they are tabulated in Myhre et al., 1998, and cited with approval in IPCC (2001. 2007). However, Iskandar is right about temperature feedbacks. Here, the nearest thing to a formula for a feedback is the Clausius-Clapeyron relation, which states that the space occupied by the atmosphere is capable of carrying near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms. However, as Paltridge et al. (2009) have indicated, merely because the atmosphere can carry more water vapor there is no certainty that it does. The IPCC’s values for this and other feedbacks are questionable. For instance, Spencer and Braswell (2010, 2011, pace Dessler, 2010, 2011) have challenged the IPCC’s estimate of the cloud feedback. They find it as strongly negative (attenuating the warming that triggers it) as the IPCC finds it strongly positive (amplifying the original warming), implying a climate sensitivity of less than 1 K. Since feedbacks account for almost two-thirds of all warming in the IPCC’s method, and since it is extremely difficult to measure – still less to provide a formula for – the values of individual temperature feedbacks, an effort such as mine to identify a constraint on the magnitude of all feedbacks taken together is at least worth trying.

Doug says we cannot be sure when the dolomitic rocks were formed. What is certain, however, according to Professor Ian Plimer, who gave me the information, is that they cannot form unless the partial pressure of CO2 above the ocean in which they form is 30%, compared with today’s 0.04%. Yet, during the long era when CO2 concentrations were that high, glaciers came and went, twice, at sea level, and at the equator. Even allowing for the fact that the Sun was a little fainter then, and that the Earth’s albedo was higher, the presence of those glaciers where there are none today does raise some questions about the forcing effect of very high CO2 concentrations, and, a fortiori, about the forcing effect of today’s mere trace concentration. However, in general Doug’s point is right: it is unwise to put too much weight on results from the paleoclimate, particularly when there is so much scientific dispute about the results from today’s climate that we can measure directly.

Dirk H and the inimitable Willis Eschenbach, whose fascinating contributions to this column should surely be collected and published as a best-seller, point out that I am treating feedbacks as linear when some of them are non-linear. For the math underlying non-linear feedbacks, which would have been too lengthy to include in my posting, see e.g. Roe (2009). Roe’s teacher was Dick Lindzen, who is justifiably proud of him. However, for the purpose of the present argument, it matters not whether feedbacks are linear or non-linear: what matters is the sum total of feedbacks as they are in our own time, which is multiplied by the Planck parameter (of which more later) to yield the closed-loop gain whose upper bound was the focus of my posting. Of course I agree with Willis that the non-linearity of many feedbacks, not to mention that all or nearly all of them cannot be measured directly, makes solving the climate-sensitivity equation difficult. But, again, that is why I have tried the approach of examining a powerful theoretical constraint on the absolute magnitude of the feedback-sum. Since the loop gain in the climate object cannot exceed 0.1 (at maximum) without rendering the climate so prone to instability that runaway feedbacks that have not occurred in the past would be very likely to have occurred, the maximum feedback sum before mutual amplification cannot exceed 0.32: yet the IPCC’s implicit central estimate of the feedback sum is 2.81.

Roger Knights rightly takes me to task for a yob’s comma that should not have been present in my posting. I apologize. He also challenges my use of the word “species” for the various types of greenhouse gas: but the word “species” is regularly used by the eminent professors of climatology at whose feet I have sat.

R. de Haan cites an author whose opinion is that warming back-radiation returned from the atmosphere back to the surface and the idea that a cooler system can warm a warmer system are “unphysical concepts”. I know that the manufacturers of some infra-red detectors say the detectors do not measure back-radiation but something else: however, both Mr. de Haan’s points are based on a common misconception about what the admittedly badly-named “greenhouse effect” is. The brilliant Chris Essex explains it thus: when outgoing radiation in the right wavelengths of the near-infrared meets a molecule of a greenhouse gas such as CO2, it sets up a quantum resonance in the gas molecule, turning it into a miniature radiator. This beautifully clear analogy, when I recently used it in a presentation in New Zealand, won the support of two professors of climatology in the audience. The little radiators that the outgoing radiation turns on are not, of course, restricted only to radiating outwards to space. They radiate in all directions, including downwards – and that is before we take into account non-radiative transports such as subsidence and precipitation that bring some of that radiation down to Earth. So even the IPCC, for all its faults, is not (in this respect, at any rate) repealing the laws of thermodynamics by allowing a cooler system to warm a warmer system, which indeed would be an unphysical concept.

Gary Smith politely raised the question whether the apparently sharp ups and downs in the paleoclimate temperature indicated strongly-positive feedbacks. With respect, the answer is No, for two reasons. First, the graph I used was inevitably compressed: in fact, most of the temperature changes in that graph took place over hundreds of thousands or even millions of years. Secondly, it is the maximum variance either side of the long-run mean, not the superficially-apparent wildness of the variances within the mean, that establishes whether or not there is a constraint on the maximum net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.

Nick Stokes asked where the limiting value 0.1 for the closed-loop gain in the climate object came from. It is about an order of magnitude above the usual design limit for net-positive feedbacks in electronic circuits that are not intended to experience runaway feedbacks or to oscillate either side of the singularity in the feedback-amplification equation, which occurs where the loop gain is unity.

David Hoffer wondered what evidence the IPCC had for assuming a linear rise in global temperature over the 21st century given that the radiative forcing from CO2 increases only at a logarithmic (i.e. sub-linear) rate. The IPCC pretends that all six of its “emissions scenarios” are to be given equal weight, but its own preference for the A2 scenario is clear, particularly in the relevant chapter of its 2007 report (ch. 10). See, in particular, fig. 10.26, which shows an exponential rise in both CO2 and temperature, when one might have expected the logarithmicity of the CO2 increase to cancel the exponentiality of the temperature increase. However, on the A2 scenario it is only the anthropogenic fraction of the CO2 concentration that is increased exponentially, and this has the paradoxical effect of making temperature rise near-exponentially too – but only if one assumes the very high climate sensitivity that is impossible given the fundamental constraint on the net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.

DR asks whether anyone has ever actually replicated experimentally the greenhouse effect mentioned by Arrhenius, who in 1895/6 first calculated how much warming a doubling of CO2 concentration would cause. Yes, the greenhouse effect was first demonstrated empirically by John Tyndale at the Royal Institution, London (just round the corner from my club) as far back as 1859. His apparatus can still be seen there. The experiment is quite easily replicated, so we know (even if the SB equation and the existence of a readily-measurable temperature lapse-rate with altitude did not tell us) that the greenhouse effect is real. The real debate is not on whether there is a greenhouse effect (there is), but on how much warming our rather small perturbation of the atmosphere with additional concentrations of greenhouse gases will cause (not a lot).

Werner Brozek asks whether the quite small variations in global surface temperature either side of the billion-year mean indicate that “tipping-points” do not exist. In mathematics and physics the term “tipping-point” is really only used by those wanting to make a political point, usually from a climate-extremist position. The old mathematical term of art, still used by many, was “phase-transition”: now we should usually talk of a “bifurcation” in the evolution of the object under consideration. Since the climate object is mathematically-chaotic (IPCC, 2001, para. 14.2.2.2; Giorgi, 2005; Lorenz, 1963), bifurcations will of course occur: indeed any sufficiently rare extreme-weather event may be a bifurcation. We know that very extreme things can suddenly happen in the climate. For instance, at the end of the Younger Dryas cooling period that brought the last Ice Age to an end, temperatures in Antarctica as inferred from variations in the ratios of different isotopes of oxygen in air trapped in layers under the ice, rose by 5 K (9 F) in just three years. “Now, that, as Ian Plimer likes to say in his lectures, “is climate change!”

But the idea that our very small perturbation in temperature will somehow cause more bifurcations is not warranted by the underlying mathematics of chaos theory. In my own lectures I often illustrate this with a spectacular picture drawn on the Argand plane by a very simple chaotic function, the Mandelbrot fractal function. The starting and ending values for the pixels at top right and bottom left respectively are identical to 12 digits of precision; yet the digits beyond 12 are enough to produce multiple highly-visible bifurcations.

And we know that some forms of extreme weather are likely to become rarer if the world warms. Much – though not all – extreme weather depends not upon absolute temperature but upon differentials in temperature between one altitude or latitude and another. These differentials tend to get smaller as the world warms, so that outside the tropics (and arguably in the tropics too) there will probably be fewer storms.

Roy Clark says there is no such thing as equilibrium in the climate. No, but that does not stop us from trying to do the sums on the assumption of the absence of any perturbation (the equilibrium assumption). Like the square root of -1, it doesn’t really exist, but it is useful to pretend ad argumentum that it might.

Legatus raised a fascinating point about the measurements of ambient radiation that observatories around the world make so that they can calibrate their delicate, heat-sensitive telescopes. He says those measurements show no increase in radiation at the surface (or, rather, on the mountain-tops where most of the telescopes are). However, it is not the surface radiation but the radiation at the top of the atmosphere (or, rather, at the characteristic-emission altitude about 5 km above sea level) that is relevant: and that is 239.4 Watts (no relation) per square meter, by definition, because the characteristic-emission altitude (the outstanding Dick Lindzen’s name for it) is that altitude at which outgoing and incoming fluxes of radiation balance. It is also at that altitude, one optical depth down into the atmosphere, that satellites “see” the radiation coming up into space from the Earth/atmosphere system. Now, as we add greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and cause warming, that altitude will rise a little; and, because the atmosphere contains greenhouse gases and, therefore, its temperature is not uniform, consequent maintenance of the temperature lapse-rate of about 6.5 K/km of altitude will ensure that the surface warms as a result. Since the altitude of the characteristic-emission level varies by day and by night, by latitude, etc., it is impossible to measure directly how it has changed or even where it is.

Of course, it is at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not – repeat not – at the Earth’s surface that the Planck parameter should be derived. So let me do just that. Incoming radiation is, say, 1368 Watts per square meter. However, the Earth presents itself to that radiation as a disk but is actually a sphere, so we divide the radiation by 4 to allow for the ratio of the surface areas of disk and sphere. That gives 342 Watts per square meter. However, 30% of the Sun’s radiation is reflected harmlessly back to space by clouds, snow, sparkling sea surfaces, my lovely wife’s smile, etc., so the flux of relevant radiation at the characteristic-emission altitude is 342(1 – 0.3) = 239.4 Watts per square meter.

From this value, we can calculate the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature directly without even having to measure it (which is just as well, because measuring even surface temperature is problematic). We use the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, the only equation to be named after a Slovene. Stefan found the equation by empirical methods and, a decade or so later, his Austrian pupil Ludwig Boltzmann proved it theoretically by reference to Planck’s blackbody law (hence the name “Planck parameter”, engagingly mis-spelled “plank” by one blogger.

The equation says that radiative flux is equal to the emissivity of the characteristic-emission surface (which we can take as unity without much error when thinking about long-wave radiation), times the Stefan-Boltzmann constant 5.67 x 10^–8 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power, times temperature in Kelvin to the fourth power. So characteristic-emission temperature is equal to the flux divided by the emissivity and by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, all to the power 1/4.: thus, [239.4 / (1 x 5.67 x 10^–8)]^¼ = 254.9 K or thereby.

Any mathematician taking a glance at this equation will at once notice that one needs quite a large change in radiative flux to achieve a very small change in temperature. To find out how small, one takes the first differential of the equation, which (assuming emissivity to be constant) is simply the temperature divided by four times the flux: so, 254.9 / (4 x 239.4) = 0.2662 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. However, the IPCC (2007, p. 631, footnote) takes 0.3125 and, in its usual exasperating way, without explaining why. So a couple of weeks ago I asked Roy Spencer and John Christy for 30 years of latitudinally-distributed surface temperature data and spent a weekend calculating the Planck parameter at the characteristic-emission altitude for each of 67 zones of latitude, allowing for latitudinal variations in insolation and adjusting for variations in the surface areas of the zones. My answer, based on the equinoxes and admittedly ignoring seasonal variations in the zenith angles of the Sun at each latitude, was 0.316. So I’ve checked, and the IPCC has the Planck parameter right. Therefore, it is of course the IPCC’s value that I used in my calculations in my commentary for Remote Sensing, except in one place.

Kiehl & Trenberth (1997) publish a celebrated Earth/atmosphere energy-budget diagram in which they show 390 Watts per square meter of outgoing radiative flux from the surface, and state that this is the “blackbody” value. From this, we know that – contrary to the intriguing suggestion made by Legatus that one should simply measure it – they did not attempt to find this value by measurement. Instead, they were taking surface emissivity as unity (for that is what defines a blackbody), and calculating the outgoing flux using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation. The surface temperature, which we can measure (albeit with some uncertainty) is 288 K. So, in effect, Kiehl and Trenberth are saying that they used the SB equation at the Earth’s surface to determine the outgoing surface flux, thus: 1 x 5.67 x 10^–8 x 288^4 = 390.1 Watts per square meter.

Two problems with this. First, the equation holds good only at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not at the surface. That is why, once I had satisfied myself that the IPCC’s value at that altitude was correct, I said in my commentary for Remote Sensing that the IPCC’s value was correct, and I am surprised to find that a blogger had tried to leave her readers with a quite different impression even after I had clarified this specific point to her.

Secondly, since Kiehl and Trenberth are using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation at the surface in order to obtain their imagined (and perhaps imaginary) outgoing flux of 390 Watts per square meter, it is of course legitimate to take the surface differential of the equation that they themselves imply that they had used, for in that we we can determine the implicit Planck parameter in their diagram. This is simply done: 288 / (4 x 390) = 0.1846 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. Strictly speaking, one should also add the non-radiative transports of 78 Watts per square meter for evapo-transpiration and 24 for thermal convection (see Kimoto, 2009, for a discussion) to the 390 Watts per square meter of radiative flux, reducing Kiehl and Trenberth’s implicit Planck parameter from 0.18 to 0.15. Either 0.15 or 0.18 gives a climate sensitivity ~1 K. So the Planck parameter I derived at this point in my commentary, of course, not the correct one: nor is it “Monckton’s” Planck parameter, and the blogger who said it was had been plainly told all that I have told you, though in a rather more compressed form because she had indicated she was familiar with differential calculus. It is not Monckton’s Planck parameter, nor even Planck’s Planck parameter, and it is certainly not a plank parameter – but it is Kiehl & Trenberth’s Planck parameter. If they were right (and, of course, I was explicit in using the conditional in my commentary to indicate, in the politest possible way, that they were not), then, like it or not, they were implying a climate sensitivity a great deal lower than they had perhaps realized – in fact a sensitivity of around 1 K. I do regret that a quite unnecessary mountain has been made out of this surely simple little molehill – just one of more than a dozen points in a wide-ranging commentary.

And just to confirm that it should really have been obvious to everyone that the IPCC’s value of the Planck parameter is my value, I gave that value as the correct one both in my commentary and in my recent blog posting on the fundamental constraint on feedback loop gain. You will find it, with its derivation, right at the beginning of that posting, and encapsulated in Eq. (3).

Thank you all again for your interest. This discussion has generally been on a far higher plane than is usual with climate discussions. I hope that these further points in answer to commentators will be helpful.

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martin mason
September 29, 2011 10:33 pm

There has never been any question over whether GHGs reradiate LW radiation or not. The uncertainty as far as I can see is whether it emits all of the energy or only a very small fraction (Nasif Nahle estimates 0.02). Also, as the radiation is emitted at a lower energy level, whether it can warm any other GHG molecules even when it is reradiated. I’ve also read that it’s a property of a black body (the earth) that it can’t absorb and reradiate or be heated by radiation at a lower energy level than that which itself has emitted which back radiation would be. I’d say that as the observed results don’t support it, the radiation model used by climate modellers is patently incorrect.

The iceman cometh
September 29, 2011 11:09 pm

Great stuff, and I really like the idea of getting an upper bound on the sum of the feedbacks – the electrical oscillator is a model I can build that works every time, unlike Al Gore’s demo.
A small quibble – in SI, the abbreviation is capitalised when the name of the unit is a mark of respect for a contributor, but not when the name is used in full – so W is for watt, and Watt does not exist.

September 29, 2011 11:18 pm

Sigh and frustration… You are so close yet at the same time so far off. As an engineer I find you scientist types so wrapped up in your measurements and following a line of reasoning (theory) so slavishly that you miss the forest from the trees. What perplexes me the most is you start off with Watts/meter^2 and then conflate this to temperature. Here is where the AGW people start their error and you follow in it. Temperature (F/C/K) IS NOT the measure of TOTAL HEAT (Q), Btu is (KJ). Temperature is only a partial (SENSIBLE) measure of HEAT, NOT the TOTAL measure of HEAT (Q). Temperature is only roughly a measure of proportional HEAT content. Watts/meter^2 is a TOTAL measure of heat coming from the sun, NOT a PARTIAL measure of HEAT. When you insist on measuring the response of the atmosphere in C or K to Watts/meter^2 you are comparing Apples to Oranges.
Humidity and Temperature combined determine the HEAT content of the air. Failure to do use the proper units will inevitably give you a false total. The only proper scientific/engineering means to measure the heat content of the air is via Specific Enthaply in Btu/# or Kj/kg. This is why the AGW people are perplexed as to where the missing heat is, they failed to measure all of it in the first place! They are so busy measuring the temperature difference that they fail to realize any change in humidity will alter the Total Heat content of the air far more randomly than any thermometer error. It is completely false to assume the humidity content of the air doesn’t change from year to year, in fact they have yet to document this variable one way or another. What’s worse they use monthly temperature averages throughout the year to come up with the yearly average. This is ridiculously wrong as humidity varies greatly from season to season. You can not conflate a summer temperature (high humidity) as roughly proportional in heat content to winter temperatures (low humidity). You can’t assume the humidity content from year to year will even out like thermometer error either since humidity is a prime variable in terms of Total Heat content. If you could assume that, then why can’t you assume temperature will even out over time? Hence you can’t have a trend if you expect a prime variable to even out and thus drop out from your equation. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. What we have here is the classic false proof, where the assumption at the outset of logical thought process is incorrect. In typical fashion you scientific types run with the flawed assumptions, apply flawless logic and then end up with a false conclusion.
Tell the AGW people they need to go back to the university and take Thermodynamics 101 over again! Here’s starter material for them: http://www.slideshare.net/physics101/001-thermodynamic-system

Julian Flood
September 29, 2011 11:24 pm

Smokey says:September 29, 2011 at 9:16 pm
quote
Agree with Michael Larkin, Lucia is not being polite
unquote
ITYM ‘Dr L. Liljegren’. Lord Monckton should, occasionally, acknowledge her as such.
It’s a shame lucia has a bee in her bonnet about Lord Monckton’s work — her posts look as if the very mention of his name brings on the red mists. On other subjects she is unequalled: her detailed breakdown of the pending failure of model predictions — like watching really exciting paint dry, or arctic ice failing to hit a new low, strangely compelling — should be read by everyone. Her posts on the current subject, while they may be justified, not so much.
JF

Professor Bob Ryan
September 30, 2011 12:06 am

Lucia: I do appreciate that you are regarded highly by some of the commentators here but I do try to limit my daily reading to just a few websites that present arguments for and against this highly contentious issue. Would you be kind enough to bring your arguments here rather than directing us back to your own website? I too have websites but I would not presume on readers of my comments to go elsewhere to participate in a debate underway here.
On the issue of politeness I too have a title, hard earned over many years and now held as emeritus. You may reply to me as ‘Professor’, ‘Bob’ or, as many of my students elect to do ‘sir’ and I can happily accept either. If you call me ‘Ryan’ I will presume that you are simply being arrogant, dismiss your comments accordingly and look elsewhere for an intelligent contribution in this debate.

Alex Heyworth
September 30, 2011 12:07 am

@dscott – You have certainly hit the nail on the head wrt one of the main weaknesses in current climate research – all that fussing about missing heat, when the issue is energy content. Another possible destination for incoming energy – it could be speeding up ocean circulation. We don’t know if it is, because the necessary detailed measurements aren’t made.

oxonmoron
September 30, 2011 1:56 am

JF as you say: It’s a shame lucia has a bee in her bonnet about Lord Monckton’s work — her posts look as if the very mention of his name brings on the red mists.
Wonder if she realises that her posts on this thread have become tedious and boring; adding little of value to the debate.
It’s interesting to compare with Willis’ posts. Willis, whose writings are never tedious nor boring and who by now can be considered an authority of consequence in matters climatical, profoundly disagrees with Lord Monckton’s analysis. For someone who doesn’t pull his punches, Willis gets on rather well with the Lord; indeed there appears to be some mutual admiration. All very surprising.

Monckton of Brenchley
September 30, 2011 2:06 am

I see that the blogger who seems perhaps unreasonably and unreasoningly eager to find fault with my work is still complaining that a peer-reviewed paper that I cited is wrong. If it is wrong enough to trouble her, then she should write a paper for the journal in which it appeared, setting the record straight.
The error lies not in anything I wrote but in the incorrect assumption by Kiehl and Trenberth that the Stefan-Boltzmann equation applies at the Earth’s surface. It doesn’t, though it did when there was no atmosphere. The blogger has still not explicitly acknowledged to her own readers that what the heading on her blog still calls the “Monckton Planck parameter” is in fact the implicit Kiehl & Trenberth Planck parameter. The value I use for the Planck parameter is the value the IPCC uses, because I had gone to considerable lengths to check that the IPCC had gotten it right.
If one were to see this matter in its proper perspective, therefore, one would be complaining not at me for pointing out Kiehl and Trenberth’s error and drawing logical and entirely correct conclusions from it, but at Kiehl and Trenberth for having made that error. It is their Planck parameter, not mine, that is wrong. And whether one excludes (as they appear to do) or includes (as Kimoto does) the non-radiative with the radiative transports from the surface in their incorrect surface application of the Stefan-Boltzmann equation, the resultant equilibrium climate sensitivity is about 1 K either way, and not the 3.3 K imagined by the IPCC – and that was, after all, the point of my original commentary. One needs to keep these things in some sort of perspective.
Finally, the blogger, on her own site, asks me to explain in detail why the rate of change in temperature per unit rate of change in radiative flux is simply the temperature divided by (four times the flux). Since the blogger sneers so repeatedly at my knowledge of these matters, she will surely not be willing to take lessons from me, so may I advise her to refer to any elementary textbook of calculus? She will find the relevant rules for simple differentiations in Chapter 1, and may find it useful to commit them to memory. In all the climatology papers on this differential that I have seen, it is regarded as so blindingly obvious that it is taken for granted and used without further comment or explanation. See, e.g., Hansen (1984).
It would have been better and more honest if the blogger had simply admitted she’d gotten things wrong from the get-go. If she wants to faff about any further in her little molehill, she can. I shall be standing back and gazing at the lofty mountains, and at the distant stars beyond, and asking that great question that unites every man of true science with every man of true religion: “I wonder …?”

RJ
September 30, 2011 2:25 am

” The brilliant Chris Essex explains it thus: when outgoing radiation in the right wavelengths of the near-infrared meets a molecule of a greenhouse gas such as CO2, it sets up a quantum resonance in the gas molecule, turning it into a miniature radiator”
Is this a joke (I hope so)
So the flawed and ridiculous GHG backradiation theory has now been dropped and changed to radiation acting as a fuel for CO2 that results in energy from this radiation fuel being massively increased when it interacts with CO2. This increased energy then returns to earth’s surface to further heat the surface.
Unbelievably.

MikeA
September 30, 2011 2:29 am

Great stuff Chris, I’m in Queensland now and look forward to your next visit. I may be with the Actors Equity demonstrators out the front. You provide great entertainment for $20 but you have to pay your union fees.

RJ
September 30, 2011 2:42 am

R. de Haan says:
September 29, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Thanks. An excellent post
I’m still not sure though if this section by Lord Monckton was for real or not.
If radiation fuel and CO2 equals increased energy from CO2 miniature radiators. Surely this is a potential new energy source. But of course it is not.

TomVonk
September 30, 2011 4:04 am

Even if English is not my first language, in all others languages I speak (German,French,Russian,Spanish and a few more), using only a surname of a person when adressing her is perceived as being offensive and rude.
Regardless of titles (Dr, Lord, Eminence etc) which are just a convention, I think everybody would agree that writing :
“Liljgren pulled this value out of her hat”
or
“Lucia pulled this value out of her hat”
or
“Lucia Liljgren pulled this value out of her hat”
doesn’t convey exactly the same attitude.
And clearly it is the first that is percieved as the rudest, the second conveys familiarity and the third is neutral.
Of course one can be right despite being rude but I prefer when a communication focuses on proper forms as well as on correct content.

bananabender
September 30, 2011 4:37 am

Dear Americans,
Christopher Monckton most likely spent every day of his school life addressed only as “Monckton” (or possibly Monckton Minor to distinguish him from his father) by his schoolmasters and many of his friends. This was the normal protocol at English Public schools such as Harrow.

Bill Illis
September 30, 2011 4:49 am

Jim D says:
September 29, 2011 at 8:40 pm
*The temperature rose 6-8 degrees coming out of the ice ages, which also indicates a high climate sensitivity (positive feedback) to albedo changes that can’t be explained by albedo alone.
——————————
What was the Albedo at the height of the ice ages. Today it is 29.83%, what was it during the ice ages, when 70% Albedo glacers got all the way to Chicago (and what was it in other times in the past).
Hansen says it only went up to 30.85% in the ice ages (signalling a high CO2 sensitivity) but others have calculated it at 33.0% (which would signal a very low CO2 sensitivity).
Hansen really had to twist the numbers to get such a small change from all that extra ice, snow and desert (and then he would have had to also include a large reduction in cloud cover as well – while the current global warming proposition says that cloud cover decreases when it gets warmer – so we have a reduction in cloud cover when it gets colder and also when it gets warmer). Tuning to get what you want?
Albedo is actually capable of explaining all the changes in the climate and makes much more sense in that we have had major ice ages with CO2 levels at 11 to 30 times higher than today.

bananabender
September 30, 2011 4:59 am

There is no average atmospheric temperature on Earth. There is only a left-skewed heat distribution strongly skewed towards low temperatures.
Almost all warming must occur at the biggest heat sinks which are the deep oceans and polar ice caps.
There will he no discernible increase in temperature in places that are not extremely cold.

de-lewis
September 30, 2011 5:00 am

“But we’re not looking at an electronic amplifier here, with constant feedback. In a system where sensitivity is inversely proportional to temperature, it is almost impossible to make the the system unstable.”
In that case we’re looking at an electronic amplifier where the input signal modulates the CL gain. This concept is exactly what achieves the constant amplitude that has become today’s standard for almost all genre’s of music. So rather than look for a ‘tipping’ point, we should look to define the climate ‘clipping’ point.

de-lewis
September 30, 2011 5:12 am

“If radiation fuel and CO2 equals increased energy from CO2 miniature radiators. Surely this is a potential new energy source. But of course it is not.”
Better to think of it like lots of isotropic radio antennas – all resonant at the precise frequency and within the beamwidth of a large transmitter with a very large direction antenna array. The many smaller antennae will re-radiate the energy at the same frequency – but in all directions.

Venter
September 30, 2011 5:29 am

Bananabender,
There’s a difference between a schoolmaster at a public school addressing a student by his surname and the tone and manner in which Lucia is addressing Lord Monckton. And Lucia claimed that she did not attack Lord Mockton in spite of it being obvious to anyone with an ouce of sense that she’s been nasty and attacking in her tone and words and the title of her post.

Venter
September 30, 2011 5:35 am

And Lord Monckton’s reply about the peer-reviewed article he cited and the Plack constant is spot on. If Lucia has problems about the Kimoto paper, she should write to the authors and the journal and have it retracted or corrected.
And the Planck constant value used by Lord Monckton is the value IPCC uses. Lord Monckton accepted IPCC’s values as correct for the purpose of his article and showed that even with their own assumptions and values their calculations of climate sensitivity was wrong. This seems obvious to everyone except Lucia who is ranting off unreasonably on a tanget. She made a blooper and has been digging herself into a deeper hole with her attitude.

Monckton of Brenchley
September 30, 2011 6:03 am

RJ, in a comment above, does not draw a proper distinction between back-radiation, such as can be measured from the undersides of clouds (one reason why on winter nights it does not freeze when there are clouds), and the radiative transport of energy from a photon to a CO2 molecule in the atmosphere, which then oscillates at the quantum level, radiating in all directions. The latter – even that fraction of it that radiates downward – is not, properly speaking, back-radiation at all, in the same sense as the return of radiation from the undersides of clouds.
Likewise, it is important to recall the law of conservation of energy, which is to the effect that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Of course no new energy is created when a photon meets a greenhouse-gas molecule: it is merely transferred, so that instead of passing out into space it stays in the atmosphere and warms it by the agency of the greenhouse-gas molecule.
These concepts are elementary. Naturally in a short compass it is not possible to explain them all adequately or in detail: but my original commentary was written for experts in the field, whom I could rely upon to be familiar with them.
I realize there is a small, tiresome, wilfully ignorant faction that does not want to admit the existence of the greenhouse effect at all: but they convince no one but themselves. The evidence for the greenhouse effect has not – as far as I know – been explicitly refuted in the reviewed literature; nor, outside the literature, have I seen any compelling, properly-argued, scientific case against it. There is, however, extensive literature arguing against a very large warming effect from adding very small quantities of CO2 to the atmosphere, and my commentary drew attention to some of that.
One is glad that MikeA finds my scientific discussions entertaining. As the poet Horace wrote, “Omne tulit punctum qui miscuit utile dulci”.

Venter
September 30, 2011 6:29 am

And Lucia’s now entering the realms of the absurd straw clutching type about the Kimoto 2009 fiasco by stating in her blog that 90% of the articles in E&E are wrong and implying that it is pointless to submit rebuttals. One wonders if she would care to back up that claim with facts. After all, she is the expert on such minutiae and diligence to facts, isn’t she? Has she ever tried to rebut or submit a comment on any article published in E&E? Can she show that she tried and was rebuffed?
And it also begs the question, if it offends her so much that Lord Monckton quoted Kimoto 2009 that she can vent her spleen for days together in multiple posts ranting and raving, how about trying to set right the source of the offence, which is the Kimoto paper? Did she even give it a try?
This post of hers implies that she has realised that it was stupid to criticise Lord Monckton for citing a peer-reviewed paper and taking him to task for that paper’s results. But instead of having the grace to admit that, she has decided to find tenuous reasons for justifying her stand. And the fact that she is harping about it in thread after thread in her blog, shows a distinct lack of class and commonsense.

Darren Parker
September 30, 2011 6:39 am

Tom Vonk – unfortunately in America using just a surname is common practice – look at a tv show like House for example – none of them are known by their first names. not one

September 30, 2011 7:04 am

Darren Parker,
So educated professionals should conform to television shows?

kim
September 30, 2011 7:09 am

Here’s what lucia won’t let me post on her site.
In my considered opinion the rudeness is complementary and misunderstandings necessarily follow from that. When the rudeness has antecedents, Katie bar the door.
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kim
September 30, 2011 7:12 am

Yeah, venter, I wanted to ask her the source of that 90%, but she’s gagged me with straw.
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