Guest post by Ric Werme
Six months ago I posted, with Anthony’s consent and misgivings, Cold Fusion Going Commercial!?. It’s time to take a look at how Dr Rossi and his Energy Catalyzer are doing. In a word, Wow. There’s a huge amount of information and blogish speculation on the web now despite there being still very little in the mainstream press. There’s a new blog that looks pretty good, other new blogs I haven’t checked out yet, existing blogs have a lot of information, and it may be quite a while before I get back to teasing information out of Rossi’s blog.

First, a quick summary. Andrea Rossi, associated with the University of Bologna, took research from Sergio Focardi and scaled it up with a nanostructured nickel substrate and an undisclosed (but supposedly inexpensive) catalyst that fuses hydrogen with nickel releasing heat and some gamma rays. A demonstration unit in January took 400 watts in and put 12 kilowatts out, boiling some 8.8 liters of water in 30 minutes. He says units have run for months heating his laboratory, designs that don’t need a continuous source of input heat can be built but are unstable and difficult to stop. The reactor produces copper, but it’s still unclear just how hydrogen is overcoming Coulomb repulsion without needing particle accelerators or pressures akin to the center of a star.
In January Rossi announced that a 1 MW reactor was going to be the first commercial development. That is proceeding. Manufacturing rights have been split between Defkalion Green Technologies S.A. in Greece and AmpEnergo Inc. in the USA The former gets Europe, Asia, and Africa; the latter gets the Americas and Caribbean.
Defkalion is building the 1 MW reactor based on an array of small modules similar to those used in the January demonstration. Ampenergo may use a similar approach, but may not be producing modules yet.
Let me do the rest of this in a question and answer format:
Umm, what is this good for? What am I supposed to be excited about?
Ah, a very good question. I’m going to take a very conservative approach to the answer, i.e. squash the hype. First and foremost, all the usable energy this produces is heat. The major limitation of this is the maximum temperature the reactor can run at, Rossi says they keep it at no more than 500°C. Modern power plants can produce steam at 600°C and a pressure of 250 bar. While this is unobtainable from from the Rossi device, it could be used in a two stage boiler – an E-cat stage to get the temperature up to several hundred degrees and a conventional plant to finish it.
So the E-cat device by itself would have to run at a lower temperature and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the E-cats alone will have to run at a lower efficiency than conventional plants. Let’s assume for now that the E-cat device can’t heat water to a point where it can be used efficiently in a steam power plant. Let’s ignore that lower efficiency may not preclude it from being cost effective. Let’s also ignore combined heat and power systems.
So then all we have is something that produces a lot of something that the existing power plant operators would call waste heat. Portable heat at that – the 1 MW pilot reactor will fit in a 20′ x 40′ container (6 x 12 m). What’s that good for? Industrial-sized space heating for one. A long time ago I read that genetic engineering would have a greater impact on the agricultural business than on human medicine. Ever since then, I’ve looked at the Ag business as really big business. One big consumer of propane is drying grain post harvest for shipping, storage, etc. A little corner of the AG world in New England is maple sugaring. Typically 40 units of maple sap is boiled down to 1 unit of syrup. Some processors do it the old fashioned way with wood fires (usually scrap maple!) or the not so romantic oil burners. There are reverse osmosis systems for removing the bulk of the water, but it has to be finished (and cooked!) in a boiler. Why not have nuclear powered maple syrup?
Patios, sidewalks, driveways are sometimes heated to keep them snow free. Some airports and cities have big melters that pay loaders dump snow into and propane heaters turn it into water to dump down the storm sewers.
There are a whole lot of things you could code that would fry the arch-conservationists, like heating entire roads or keeping open air swimming pools open through the winter.
My favorite idea is small scale, but incredibly practical – Antarctic research stations need to stock up on enough fuel oil during the summer to keep warm during the winter. A heat source that is refueled once a year would thrill the physical plant personnel.
Energy production needs energy, and the E-Cat could fit in to some current applications (assuming the applications are still viable). Distilling ethanol from the biological fermenters used to convert corn to ethanol is one. Another providing the hot water used in oil sand and oil shale extraction. Currently that’s provided by burning natural gas, and there may be plenty of that associated with the source that it’s remains the sensible heat source.
So, the answer is that simply heat is well worth getting excited about.
Yeah, but what about me?
Rossi is concerned about keeping some of the intellectual property a trade secret. That, and concerns about shutting down the reaction made me assume that the home heating market would be the last to develop, but Defkalion is planning a small box that can hold 1-6 5 kW modules for a combined heat and power application, including residential use. If I recall correctly, a typical residential oil burning furnace burns oil at the rate of one gallon per hour. That’s 40 kW, so yeah, If the fears for some brutal winters come true, Defkalion may be very busy!
Dude, what about the US, you keep talking about Greeks!
Well, living in New Hampshire, I’m pleased to report that Ampenergo is located in NH. The principals are Karl Norwood, Richard Noceti, Robert Gentile, and Craig Cassarino.
Robert Gentile was the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy at the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) during the early 1990’s. That’s okay. He is/was President of Leonardo Technologies Inc., an Ohio company that may have been set up by Rossi and is related to the Leonardo Corp in Bedford, NH. The links are weird, I haven’t figured them all out.
Richard Noceti co-wrote a paper titled Synthesis of Hydrocarbon Fuels using Renewable and Nuclear Energy and is listed as National Energy Technology Laboratory and LTI Associates. That’s good.
Karl Norwood is the President of The Norwood Group, a large real estate company based in Bedford NH. Hmm. His Linked-in entry says “Karl Norwood’ss [sic] real estate experience is multi-faceted, from multi-family to office and industrial properties. In business for over 40 years, he has been actively involved in all forms of commercial brokerage, negotiating on behalf of both landlords and tenants.” Whoa, shouldn’t we have a few manufacturing folks here?
In January, I went looking for the Leonardo Corp and was surprised to find it shared the same phone number as Norwood Realty. So I stopped there one day in January and the receptionist gave me Craig Cassarino’s phone number and said he was in Brazil that week. I eventually called him a month or so later. He knew little of cold fusion history or other research that went on in New Hampshire, he’s more of an international business consultant. Exportnh.org says “Craig Cassarino has spent decades focused on sustainability of resources in both New Hampshire and Brazil, so it’s very fitting that now, as New Hampshire’s Commercial Consul for Brazil, he is serving as a resource for Granite State businesses interested in doing business in Brazil.” Oh my.
So it sounds to me as though Ampenergo will be a middleman between sub licensees and Rossi. I’m sure they have lots of contacts to work with. Frankly, I expected to find something like a General Electric throwing hundreds of engineers at designs of all scales and dozens of scientists to build higher temperature devices, better heat flow management, figure out the nuclear physics, etc. Perhaps GE is, but are doing so quietly. At any rate, look to Defkalion for early results, perhaps Ampenergo can get factories set up throughout the Americas (or just in Brazil) later. I think the modules for the 1 MW reactor are being made in Florida.
How about producing electricity with thermocouples?
A “classic” thermocouple relies on the relative ease of moving an electron from one metal to another in a heated junction. They’re used in gas fired boilers, temperature sensors, etc. To get a decent amount of power requires a lot of wires. Something I wasn’t very familiar with until I started researching this is semiconductor thermocouple that uses lead telluride. Recent research has improved its output by adding some dopants that produce points where it’s easier for heat to knock off an electron. Rossi is very interested, but I suspect that there may not be enough tellurium to go around. I have a small thermoelectrically powered fan that you put on a wood stove. It also serves as a good guess about the smoke stack temperature, as the hotter the stove gets, the faster the fan spins.
Cute device, pretty pricy. I’m sure there will be good applications, but overall I don’t think it’s thermocouples are efficient enough, inexpensive enough, and raw material plentiful enough.
I hear it’s a scam.
Well, suppose it is, we’ll find out soon enough. I think it’s likely for real, but there are several other opinions and red flags worth keeping in mind. If it is a scam, it’s a heck of a complex one.
The obvious opinion is it’s all been faked or that Rossi, et al, are seeing what they want to see and it’s all a fantasy. Early LENR devices had so little excess heat that it took painstaking measurements to find it. The device Rossi demonstrated produced so much heat that there’s simply no question it was producing heat. Even the input power, supplied by a piece of lamp cord, is nowhere near the 12 kW that was being produced. (On a 230 VAC source, that lamp cord would have to carry 50 amps to bring 12 kW into the test device. 50 amps generally requires AWG 10-11 gauge wire.) Other parties, including Swedish nuclear experts have concluded the device is real and is too small to provide the demonstrated energy chemically.
There are detractors, primarily science journalist Steve Krivit. He’s a longtime follower of the cold fusion/LENR scene and is quick to point out it’s not “real” fusion. He visited Rossi et al in Italy, burning bridges along the way. There’s a personality conflict, I think Krivit was looking for a science discussion about how it works and if it works, while Rossi was taking time out of another busy day building a 1 MW reactor expecting it will work much like his smaller modules, because they’re using many of them.
Krivit’s trip to Italy left both sides annoyed with each other. From that page, follow the subsequent posts to the actual interviews and observations of the system.
Krivit states “Thus far, the scientific details provided by the E-Cat trio have been highly deficient and have not enabled the public to make an objective evaluation.”
Rossi retorted later, “Mr. Krivit has understood nothing of what he saw, from what I have read in his ridiculous report.”
Krivit’s focus is on the boiling water test, and thinks that the output steam flow was “wet” – that water droplets cam out with the steam. Rossi set up another demonstration with much higher water flow to stay with liquid water, and measuring the flow and temperature gain. The results showed more heat release than before.
What sort of “red flags” should I be aware of?
Here’s a list, some are holdovers from cold fusion history:
- It sounds too good to be true.
And therefore requires extraordinary results.
- Scientists have come away impressed, but scientists are lousy at spotting fraud.
It would be nice if James Randi would take a look, there are a number of doubters on his discussion board. However, so much energy comes out of the device that it can’t be powered from the wall outlet, can’t be battery power, can’t be burning hydrocarbons (that second test released the equivalent of burning 7.9 gallons of gasoline). There’s not much else it could be, e.g IR lasers or microwaves.
- What’s with Rossi’s legal problems in the past?
I haven’t read too closely, but Rossi was involved in a trash to oil project that didn’t get very far, but some accounts point to corrupt Italian officials shaking down a company that was beginning to make money. (I’m shocked!) Those issues may be one reason why Rossi is working with Defkalion, a Greek company.
- And how about Ampenergo in the Americas?
I’ll contact them in a while. They’re going to have to move and move quickly. At least they didn’t spend much time on a name. 🙂
- If Rossi were a real scientist, he’d describe the catalyst.
Yeah, but he’s an inventor/entrepeneur. He’s focused on getting a product out, one that he wants to protect until things are more established. He may talk about it more in November after the 1 MW reactor is shipped.
- And how expensive is the catalyst.
Rossi says it’s cheap. There’s some other work that used palladium on carbon, I wouldn’t be surprised if the nano structure is from nickel on carbon fibers or even just charcoal. It may be his biggest advance is increasing the surface area of the nickel.
- This converts nickel to copper, which isotopes?
Uh, can I get back to you on that? Sergio Focardi says that what is produced does not match natural copper. Physicists from Sweden say “the used powder is different in that several elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron. The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper.” If the copper produced has the natural percentages of 69.17% 63Cu and 30.83% 65Cu, that’s a big red flag and and means either the result is contamination with natural copper or that the processes that make copper in the E-cat are similar to the natural processes, which should involve exploding supernovae.
On the other hand, if the ratio is different, then that’s very strong evidence that copper is being produced through nuclear chemistry.
No one seems to be talking about the iron. Iron is a couple steps before nickel, and that suggests alpha particle emission, but that’s more common with very heavy elements.
I’m still reading, I want to know more!
A remarkably amateurish but informative video was created by Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson at the University of Cambridge. I think it exists because there just wasn’t a decent video introduction. Is it an appeal to authority if the authority is yourself?
A blog dedicated to Rossi’s Energy Catalyzer has appeared as http://www.e-catworld.com/. It’s run by Frank (admin). I think I know who Frank is, but he never replied to my query. I think it will be a good source of information.
In a July post from Pure Energy Systems, there’s a list of Web sites focused on the E-Cat device. I’ve only had a chance to look at a few. (The last is one I found elsewhere.)
An interview with Sergio Focardi gives a really good background on developing the E-Cat. Focardi doesn’t know what the catalyst is, but suspects it’s involved in splitting molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen (ordinary hydrogen is a molecule with two atoms).
Wired had a good summary of LENR research in 2006. One person referenced, Les Case, was a solo researcher in New Hampshire and longtime acquaintance of mine. He died of natural causes a year or so ago.
What’s next?
The next big step is the completion, testing, and delivery of the 1 MW reactor. After that, Rossi might have time (or might be surrounded by reporters) and be willing to talk more about what’s inside.
I’m just amazed that the mainstream media haven’t picked this up. I don’t know how much of it is bad memories from the science by press conference days of Pons and Fleischman, and how much is pursuing more important stories, like which celebrity is entering or leaving rehab. When they do pick it up, they may overhype it, but it’s easy to show that maintaining a high standard of living requires access to cheap energy.
While the E-Cat device will not supplant many current uses for petroleum products, it doesn’t have to. It wouldn’t take much of a demand reduction to chase the speculators out of oil, and it could help reduce the cost of producing products from crude oil to refined fuels.
Whatever happens, our “interesting times,” as the Chinese curse goes, are about to become more interesting.
Dave: I hate to admit it but my memory is on a par with yours. Remember party lines? Our number was 5221. For some I am sure we are speaking Greek.
Dave Springer says:
August 5, 2011 at 8:54 am
Add up the pro and con comments declare it a consensus, the science is settled then put it into production.
/sarc
For those who might take the time to analyze the whole theory thing, here’s a pointer to a paper on the Bose-Einstein Condensate.
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEgeneralize.pdf
Estiercol de caballo
Hmmmmm……this is an interesting topic, but frankly one I would like to see pursued seperately from climate science issues.
If it is somehow real, and we enter the age of fusion from such an improbable direction, so be it.
There will be plenty of time to follow it and discuss the implications.
If it is not real, AGW believers will use the attention paid to the topic here as alleged proof that skeptics are wack jobs.
This is like religious issues. Any discussion of religion in science inevitably gets used by secularists as a proof of the ignorance foolishness of theists.
I hope this si the last post on the topic until the entire issues is either proven real or false.
My bet at this time is it is false.
“Leonardo Technologies Inc., an Ohio company that may have been set up by Rossi and is related to the Leonardo Corp in Bedford, NH”
Leonardo Technologies Inc. address from their website (note that two years ago when it was popular, they were into carbon sequestration)
http://www.lti-global.com/
is
70245 Bannock
Uniontown Road
Bannock, Ohio
43972
Which Google street view indicates is quite a rural area in the middle of nowhere:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&z=7&iwloc=A&q=+Hc+331+Bannock,+OH
Which happens to also be the address for other companies
Capstone Holding Co –
“Land holding company that owns coal reserves that we are currently permitting for mining. We are also leasing coal reserves to mining companies and we are performing reclamation for bond releases on previously mined properties.”
per:
http://www.ohiocoal.com/associate-member-company/capstone-holding-company
Ohio River Collieries Co –
other Gentile companies (i.e. not Robert Gentile)
per:
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Ohio/Bannock/ohio-river-collieries-co/48367180.aspx
Quite the relationship to build credibility in a LENR tech company
So many angles on this one….
As a physicist and electrical engineer, my training tells me this looks like a
scam. But not totally.
There is no reason to pronounce it a scam if the theorists do not understand
all the science. Airplanes, semiconductors, and even wave-particle duality
were considered nonsense at one time. Just like lots of modern mathematics.
The director ALCATOR-C-MOD fusion reactor at MIT makes it quite plain
that “the theorists are 18 months behind”. The fusion reactor at MIT is energy
positive (but quite limited in other ways) and has limited theoretical understanding.
If the results of the E-cat can be duplicated, it is science and it is real. Naysayers
and theorists be damned. There lies the problem. There are tens of thousands
of highly-educated people that have spent all their education and career certain
that no such thing is possible. There is an implication and attitude that they
know all there is to be known: anything that is not known is impossible. These
people have worked in the hardest technical fields for decades and have
gotten ahead in life by *being right*. It is VERY HARD for such people to admit
to even the slightest possibility of error, or new science.
Some find the physics imponderable, but not me. Above somebody mentioned
the Josepheson effect. I think this is the right approach. Combined with the
nickle permeability of hydrogen, and some phonon compression on lattice
boundaries, there is at least a possibility. The E-cat needs 500 PSI hydrogen
at around 1000F. So there are some interesting effects going on. More
heat makes the process unstable? Why is that? Is there some odd combination
of the Doppler broadening in a nano-scale matrix with Stark effect, and perhaps
some variant of Hall and Zeeman effects?
In my work I have found that lots of poorly educated, highly educated people
think the Gaussian distribution of probability applies to all events. For
discrete systems, this is NOT the case. Odd, nominally impossible, things
happen in systems that have non-continuous media. Nano-scale nickel with
hot high pressure hydrogen might be one of those interesting cases. Is it any
less probable than a field effect transistor?
Impossible? Consider the case of the plain bearing. A thin film of oil between
a rotating steel part and a lead/zinc/copper shell. Such bearings were in use
for a century before anybody could explain why they worked. Thin films of
oil behave completely differently than bulk oil. The theory was not required
for the bearing to used.
That’s because Rossi didn’t reveal his secret sauce. It’s not really a count against the gadget. I.e., the offices didn’t evaluate his DEVICE and find it wanting.
Well we are at T-minus 3 months for the October demonstration deadline. This is the most intriguing thing if it is a scam, why the deadline?
I mean even if they only have sufficient units for a 500kw system by then, this would still be more than enough to demo.
Ben of Houston says:
August 5, 2011 at 10:34 am
“Typhoon, one thing to think about is that if this works, there is a very strong chance that we don’t know what we’re talking about where subatomic particles are concerned. From an engineering perspective, in the end, no matter what is occurring (excluding the scam possibility), the thing can produce a lot of heat for very low input. The only rational idea is to set the machine up in the control a neutral, monitored party, and then have it run. Put a smartmeter on the input, and a temperature/flowmeter on the output, and then let it run for a week. Then, observe the results and conclude from there.”
The claim is one of “cold fusion”.
My observations: http://goo.gl/5g60J
are based on the conservation of energy – momentum,
http://goo.gl/fIhdw
a fundamental property of nature.
if the emitted particles are not observed then this would be the first known process to violate conservation of energy – momentum. The probability of this is on the order of zero.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
So yes, I agree that “there is a very strong chance that you don’t know what you’re talking about where subatomic particles are concerned”
Promoting this type of scam on WUWT denigrates the site and associates it with the tin foil hat brigade.
I don’t think things have changed much in the 20 years since my R&D days, when my company had classes on patents and trade secrets. I was taught then that any new invention or process has two ways to go.
One way is to apply for a patent, in which case they reveal what they are doing, in trade for a legal monopoly for X number of years. In doing so, others (competitors) are informed of exactly what is being done and can start looking for ways to go around the patent or improve on it in ways that are also patentable. So, filing for a patent is a risky way to go, despite its legal monopoly.
The other way to go is to NOT file a patent, taking the chance that once the product is out on the market the competitors will not be able to reverse engineer it.
With the US patent office (and probably all other patent offices) having a firm policy of denying “perpetual motion machines,” getting a patent is not an option. Therefore, the only path open on cold fusion devices is to simply start building them and putting them out there.
I believe that once they ARE out in the marketplace in the hundreds or thousands or millions, the patent offices will have no option other than to re-think their prohibition on patents for over-unity devices. Scientists will scream bloody murder, but if there is one thing that scientists have to respect it is reality; when in the real world these devices are producing heat and power for people, the empiricists will outvote the theory guys.
[In 1989 I had good reason to believe that these things were real. I believe I have written about that here once before. I have been waiting over 20 years for enough progress to occur. This is good news to me.]
WUWT and Mr Werme,
Wow, I am rather disappointed in you having this article up on WUWT. It is one
thing to point to e-cat and say wow this would be big, 🙂 if it were real. But the
writer gives it legitimacy it does not deserve.
The great strength of WUWT is your fact based approach to information, show me your
data, show me your model, list all of the underlying assumptions, and let me
independently reproduce your results. This story relies on information only from
Rossi, et al and tries to diminish the critics, Mr. Krivit, as having some kind of
personnel agenda.
I worked in the Federal Government (National Institute of Standards and Technology
and DARPA) for 12 years. It seemed once a year some one had enough pull to get
some White House official or Congressman/Senator to have us test some perpetual
motion machine. The first clue something was amiss is that the “inventor” wanted
Congress to grant them a patent because the Energy/Government conspiracy was keeping
them from getting one….
I remember in one case when wired appropriately the comment from the engineer running
the test was not only is this thing not a perpetual motion machine, it’s not even a
good electrical motor.
So far no perpetual machines have been found (or they are still locked in the basement
next to the aliens who do all of the programming).
I don’t mean to be condescending, but I do mean to be sarcastic. Yes, if e-cat works,
it would be HUGE, it would quite literally change the world. But I’ll only believe it
when I can buy one to heat my house. This kind of delusion/scam relies on people like
Mr. Werme to recognize how significant the technology could be if it worked. They provide
just enough tantalizing information to get attention, but not enough to verify. They bring
in a couple of token scientist to talk it up and to give that whiff of legitimacy. When
what is really needed is an engineer or two, a couple of technicians and $1000 worth of
sensors, flow meters, a laptop and a copy of National Instrument LabVIEW.
Further, would anyone like to wager money about the October demo actually happening?
I will bet a considerable sum of money that some “event” will delay things. A claim
will be made that some local, state or federal government stopped the demonstration
because…
well take your pick, unregulated nuclear device, someone got run over by a truck and
Mr. Rossi has gone into hiding, IP ownership/dispute, etc, etc, etc.
If an October demo happens, it will be just like the demos so far, long of Wow, short
on real data.
Too many scam pointers for my taste. I guess I will just go back to tinkering with my perpetual motion device. It’s coming along very nicely. I just have to figure a way to get rid of the need for the lamp wire input and I’ll be there.
Too many scam pointers for my taste. I guess I’ll just go back to tinkering with my perpetual motion device. It’s coming along quite nicely. I just have to figure a way to get rid of the need for the lamp wire input.
It does appear that 98% of people with opinions in physics think the Rossi catalyzer is bunk.
Might be. I’ve gone from thinking it was probably bunk last January when I heard about the demo at the U. of Bologna (for Americans, an unfortunate choice due to our “baloney” slang) physics department, to thinking it was probably true. There are plausible theoretical underpinnings, and I just can’t shake the expectation that it would take a very foolish crook to bring this public with a promise of a working 1MW unit in October. I also can’t see Dr.Focardi being interested in trashing his name at this point, after his career and emeritus physics professorship at U. di Bologna.
I’ve read the NyTeknik pieces, watched the Bologna videos. Most con men don’t wade in among the folks most likely to smell the rat when rolling out something fake. They also don’t commit to schedules for presentation of a commercially viable product.
Are the commentators who are claiming that this may be a scam not aware of the catastrophic AGW scam? I don’t recall posts saying that CAGW shouldn’t be discussed here because it’s ‘short of real data’, etc.
I’m almost as skeptical of this fusion claim as I am of CAGW. But it will be fun to see how it turns out. And unlike CAGW, this one isn’t funded by government grants.
Peter Brown:
This is no more of a perpetual motion machine, than a fission reactor. Where did you get such an idea? Review the principles of fission and fusion. GK
Rocky Road sounds just like an old flim-flam soi disant journalist and scam-artist named Jed Rothwell. Be ware. Be very aware. Somewhere in the archives of sci.physics.fusion, you’ll find a nice description of Jed (based loosely on the Beverly Hillbillies themesong) by a MIT Grad Student (Theresa, IIRC).
@ur momisuglyRic Werme says:
August 5, 2011 at 10:18 am
Argh! Ric, this cold fusion stuff has been done to death. The catalyst in most of the cold fusion experiments need to be loaded with fuel. This costs energy. Catalysts also tend to get fouled and need regeneration. One criticism is that some of these metal catalysts can be oxidized to produce heat. There is a cost associated with catalysts, and, you need to treat that seriously. What is it? If it’s too high, you don’t get a cookie.
Also, 27 kJ is enough to boil about 12 kg. of water (1024 kJ / lb @ur momisugly 100C). Not a lot of energy, friend. When you start an fusion article discussing power and neglecting energy, I can only assume that you haven’t been paying attention to all the failed fusion projects. Good luck with that, seriously, but, I think you aren’t being demanding enough of Rossi.
IAANE
“But I’ll only believe it when I can buy one to heat my house.”
Do you believe in fission reactors? Which room did you put it in?
I’ll believe in the e-cat when it’s rolled out with no secrets and verifiable performance by even its detractors. In the meantime, as a physicist turned engineer, I’ll grant there’s good reason, considering the intellectual property rights issues, for Rossi to hold his cards close to his vest.
I choose to not trash Rossi or Focardi in the meantime, and, to draw a parallel, I’m guessing James Watt didn’t have a clue how to work out the thermodynamics of his steam engine improvement even after he unleashed it on mankind.
TRM says:
August 5, 2011 at 8:52 am
Your comment reminded me of an old joke.
……..
The scientist says to the engineer “why are you wasting your time, you’ll never get there” to which the engineer replies “yes, but I’ll get close enough!”.
—————————————————————————————————————–
A mathematician, of course, wouldn’t have thought twice. He’d have just strolled over and reached her.
Anthony Watts,
You oughtn’t allow cold-fusion scammers advertising space on an otherwise reputable weblog.
What – weak on performing calorimetry?
This ISN’T rocket science … if an EE can understand and perform the work SURELY any of you ‘physicists’ could do the same …
I’m astonished to see so many physicists throw in the towel so early and so easily! EEs rule!
.
Well, I’ve got to say, I have doubts on many levels, but I don’t mind seeing it discussed here. This forum claims to be about “News and commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news”.
There is a big group of reasonably civil people here from diverse backgrounds, and if someone wants to hear what the readers think about certain ” puzzling things in life, nature, science, etc”,.I say have at it. I follow a real estate investment trust board, and readers frequently run OT material through it simply because the followers are well informed and civil. We all need a break from AWG once in a while.
Now back to the post—I would say chemical reaction or scam, based on the lack of quantitative nuclear data. “Some gamma rays” is not real clear. Nor is the copper isotope data. Just producing heat from undisclosed ingredients is a long ways from proof of cold fusion.
Oh- and for the benefit of Lubos– I rated it five stars because the article was well written, the writer dug into some of the claims and links, and speculated on strengths, weakness and possible applications if true, not because I was convinced they are onto something.
Bottom line: if this system truly gives a 30X gain in power it is miraculous and will change Physics as we know it forever. A single unit could support a fan-out of 30 units and each of the 30 could power 30 more, etc., etc., ad infinitum. So for a 400 watt input the output is, theoretically, infinite. No need for any other source of power ever as every energy need could be derived from this infinite source. This is not a perpetual motion machine this is a perpetual acceleration machine! At some point, one output of one of the boxes could be fed back into the root box, providing infinite energy forever.