Skeptic Strategy for Talking About Global Warming

Guest Post by Ira Glickstein

What should a responsible Skeptic say to an astute audience? When recently invited by the “Technology, Engineering, and Science Plus” group in my community to give a talk and answer questions, I knew I would have an attentive room of tech-savvy professionals. However, they might not be fully tuned in to the details of the Global Warming controversy. Furthermore, they were likely to have opinions closer to the supposed “mainsteam science” orientation than mine.

In this posting, I’ve summarized the main points I think are most likely to align people who are both intelligent and reasonable to the Skeptic side. My Powerpoint (with talking points for each chart in the Notes section under each slide) is available [click here] for you to use and adapt as you wish.

Highlight scene from former VP Al Gore's Nobel and Oscar-winning movie, An Inconvenient Truth. Dramatic correlation between temperature and CO2 over past 600,000 years. Implication that global mean temperature rise will parallel CO2 increases. But, which way does the causation go? {Annotations by ira@techie.com, TVPClub.blogspot.com}

A. Basic Climate Science – Water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), and other “greenhouse” gases cause the Earth Surface to be warmer than it would be if the Atmosphere was just nitrogen.

  1. Light energy from the Sun warms the Earth System, which consists of our Atmosphere and the Surface. Based on satellite measurements, the Sun provides 1366 Watts per square meter (W/m^2) at the Top of the Atmosphere. After accounting for the Earth’s spherical shape and albedo (reflectiveness), the absorbed energy averages out to about 240 W/m^2 for each square meter.
  2. To maintain a relatively constant mean temperature, Output Energy must equal Input Energy, so the Earth System must emit about 240 W/m^2 out to Space, which it does.
  3. We call the Input Energy “light” because we can see (much of) it. We call the Output Energy “heat” because we can feel it. However, whether it is “short wave” energy from the very hot Sun, or “long wave” from the more moderate Earth System, we know that energy is fungible. 240 W/m^2 of one type is equal, power-wise, to 240 W/m^2 of the other. A Watt is a Watt, no matter what :^)
  4. But, there is an “issue” – if we consider the Earth System as a “black body”, according to the laws of physics, for the Earth System to emit 240 W/m^2, it would have to be at a temperature of only 255 Kelvin, where Kelvins are degrees Celsius above absolute zero. (The Earth System is not exactly a black body, but it is close enough for our purposes here.)
  5. You may remember that anything above absolute zero emits radiant energy and that 0.0 Kelvin corresponds to -273ºC or -460ºF. The “issue” is that the Earth Surface has a mean temperature closer to 288 Kelvin, corresponding to about +15ºC or +59ºF. In other words, the Surface is about 33ºC or 58ºF warmer than the “black body” formula would indicate. How to explain this added warmth?
  6. The generally accepted explanation is the Atmospheric “greenhouse effect”. This is true science, but the name is somewhat misleading because a glass greenhouse works mostly by restricting convection while the Atmospheric effect works mostly by restricting radiation. I use “scare quotes” around “greenhouse” to acknowledge this semantic issue.
  7. The Atmosphere passes most of the “short wave” energy from the Sun and absorbs most of the “long wave” energy from the Surface. The absorbed energy warms the Atmosphere and is re-emitted in all directions at a variety of “long wave” wavelengths. A portion of radiation from the Atmosphere passes out the Top of the Atmosphere to Space. A portion is emitted in the downward direction and is absorbed by the Surface. This absorbed radiant energy accounts for most of the extra 33ºC or 58ºF.
  8. A variety of gases in the Atmosphere, primarily water vapor (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2), absorb and re-emit “long wave” radiation. These are called “greenhouse gases”.

B. Divergent Views – There is a valid, science-based argument between people I refer to as Warmists, Lukewarmers, and Skeptics. I distinguish their reasoned views from the far out, unscientific rantings of people I refer to as Alarmists and their equal and opposite reaction opponents, who I call Disbelievers.

  1. VP Al Gore was not the first Alarmist, but his public lectures and his Nobel and Oscar-winning movie, An “Inconvenient” Truth, probably did more than anything else to bring Global Warming Alarmism to the fore in the consciousness of the major media and the general population.
  2. The scene depicted above was the highlight of his presentation.
  3. Gore displays the Ice Core record of the past 600,000 years for CO2 (red) and Temperature (blue). He points out the undoubted correlation between the two parameters. When one goes up so does the other. When one goes down, the other does as well. He points out that the then current CO2 level is considerably higher than that of the past 600,000 years, and he projects the future levels of CO2 assuming it continues to rise at current rates. So far, this is all true.
  4. Dramatically ascending high above the stage on his motorized platform, he implies that mean temperatures will rise in proportion to the CO2. (My graphic is annotated in dashed blue to show the implied warming.) If that happens, he warns, more and more of the polar ice will melt, causing the seas to rise and flooding coastal areas. The ground under the polar ice will be exposed, further reducing the albedo of the Surface and causing further warming. We will reach a tipping point with runaway Global Warming.
  5. The villain of Gore’s story is the human race and our habit of burning ever-increasing quantities of fossil fuels (coal, oil, natural gas) that release unprecedented amounts of CO2. This scene, more than any other event, is most likely responsible for the birth of what has come to be known as Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming, CAGW. In other words, catastrophe due to human-caused Global Warming. It has become the mantra of the Alarmists and an excuse for governments to regulate all fossil fuels as well as land use that affects albedo. Since all industry and agriculture and civilized life itself depends upon fossil fuels and land use, the Alarmists give suitably oriented politicos an excuse to regulate and tax and restrict virtually everything. We outdoors types will need an indulgence from the government every time we pass wind. And, we can forget about lighting a campfire :^).
  6. But, as the annotations in my graphic above show, there is a fundamental “Inconvenient” truth about the ice core data. It has absolutely nothing to say about the current Global Warming controversy! Gore was misleading the media and the public when he implied that rising CO2 levels would cause corresponding increases in mean temperatures. In particular, as any scientist who took a close look at the ice core data would see, and as I show in the inset graph in the upper left corner, Temperature always rises eight-hundred or more years before CO2 increases. The same is true in the other direction. The Temperature falls eight-hundred or more years prior to CO2 decreases. What this shows, if anything, is that TEMPERATURE CAUSES CO2, or, that something else causes both to change, with CO2 lagging by hundreds of years. Gore got the direction of causation backwards.
  7. When the falsehood of this implied causation was pointed out, Gore’s apologists claimed that it was a minor matter and, after all, despite the 800-year lag, both Temperature and CO2 were up together and down together for about 5/6ths of the record. Besides, they said, we are currently burning historically unprecedented amounts of fossil fuel, and, we know that CO2 is a “greenhouse gas”, and so on and on. But, the truth is still that the ice core record is of a time when there were no humans to burn fossil fuels, so why did Gore bring it up since it has no relationship to our current situation? Raw, unfettered Alarmism has had its effect on the media, the political class, and we common citizens who have to pay the costs of the phony CAGW panic.
  8. In politics, as in physics, every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction. In the Case of CAGW, that opposite (and equally false) reaction is what I call Disbeliever AGW or DAGW. These are people who use pseudo-scientific arguments in their claim that humans have had absolutely no hand in the mean temperature rise of the past century, or that there has been no temperature rise, or that the basic science of the Atmospheric “greenhouse effect” is untrue, and so on. I do not like to be to critical of the DAGW crowd because, when it comes to general political decisions, they are more likely than not to agree with me than my opponents, but my academic integrity and ethical duty as a licensed professional engineer require me to state what I see as the error of their arguments. (As I have in my WUWT Visualizing series [1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
  9. Having dismissed what I regard as the unscientific Alarmists and Disbelievers, that leaves us with three groups that, for the most part, use rational science-base arguments for their diverse views. Of course, every member of each group has somewhat different views, and any attempt to divide them into three distinct types is bound to cross some lines. So, please consider my grouping as approximate.
  10. Carbon sensitivity, which is the estimate of how much mean temperatures will increase if CO2 doubles from historical or current levels, is one way to determine which of the the three groups a person belongs to. The Warmists tend to accept the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimate of 2.0ºC to 4.5ºC. The Skeptics tend to set carbon sensitivity much lower, perhaps 0.2ºC to 1ºC. The third group, which I call Lukewarmers, would suggest 1ºC to 3ºC.
  11. How much of the rise in CO2 is attributable to human use of fossil fuels is also estimated differently. Warmists would blame humans for nearly all of it, while Skeptics would say less than half. Similarly, the blame for the supposed 0.8ºC rise in mean temperatures since 1880 is mostly attributed to human activities, while Skeptics say that data bias “adjustments” by the official climate record keepers is responsible for about a third of the supposed warming, and that natural cycles, over which humans have no control, are responsible for about half of it, leaving only 0.1ºC (or maybe up to 0.2ºC) to human responsibility. Lukewarmers are somewhere in-between.
  12. Skeptics have well-justified suspicions that the official climate data keepers were “cooking the books” to lend whatever support they could to the highest estimates of carbon sensitivity. Around the year 2000, US Mean Temperature data was “adjusted” down by 0.1 to 0.2ºC for years prior to the 1970’s, and upwards by 0.2 to 0.3ºC for years after the 1970’s, increasing supposed warming by 0.3 to 0.5ºC.
  13. The surfacestations.org project published photos of official temperature measurement stations that were very near artificial sources of heat, with most being in the lowest two of the five quality levels established by the government. The poor quality stations were compared to nearby well-located stations. There were large temperature deltas that could only be accounted for if the the stations now poorly-located were originally well-located, but had been influenced by nearby development, such as paved parking lots, buildings, and air conditioning vents.
  14. According to a figure in the 1990 IPCC report, 1100 to 1300 AD saw temperatures in the northern hemisphere that were higher than current levels. However, the IPCC 2001 report included the infamous so-called “hockey stick” chart that managed to make the Medieval Warm Period of about 1000 years ago disappear! (My Powerpoint set includes charts with evidence of each of the aforementioned issues.)
  15. These suspicions were not fully confirmed until 2009 when someone (probably an inside whistle-blower) released emails and computer code from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in the UK, and, later that year, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request yielded a stash from the US NASA-GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies).

C. Climategate – UK Climatic Research Unit (CRU) emails and the US NASA GISS FOIA emails. What they tell us about the published Global Warming data.

IPCC 1990 recognized Medieval Warm Period (MWP) temperatures were above current levels. IPCC 2001 used the "Hockey Stick" chart that makes MWP disappear.
  1. I refer to the CRU as the Climategate Research Unit or, more simply, the Fudge Factory because the words “fudge factor” appear in their computer code. Phil Jones, PhD, is the CRU Director. He confirmed suspicions about the infamous “Hockey Stick” graph when, in an email, he called it “Mike’s Nature trick” (because a version of that graph appeared in a paper by Dr. Michael Mann in the prestigious journal Nature ). He also wrote that the “trick” was designed to “hide the decline” in tree ring proxy data. The tree-ring expert associated with CRU, Keith Brifa, PhD, admits, in one of the emails that “the recent warmth was probably matched about 1,000 years ago”. (My Powerpoint set includes slides with direct quotes from the Climategate materials.)
2007 email from Sato to Hansen details seven analyses of 1934 vs 1998. 1934 starts off with a 0.5ºC lead and ends up in a dead heat.
  1. Moving on to the FOIA emails from GISS, it is interesting to note that their HQ, in New York City, happens to be in the same building as the famous restaurant where Jerry Seinfeld dined with George, Kramer, and Elaine. (It was never revealed what Kramer did for a living – perhaps he was the chief analyst at GISS :^)
  2. The most revealing email from GISS is reproduced above. It was from Makiko Sato, PhD to her Boss, GISS-Director James Hansen, PhD, detailing the seven different analyses and comparisons of US mean temperatures for 1934 and 1998. The later year was the hottest in the 1990’s, so it was, let us say “inconvenient” that 1934, according to data published by GISS in 1999, was over 0.5ºC warmer. If Global Warming was almost entirely due to recent human activities, and was accelerating, how could the 1930 have been warmer?
  3. Just as the Hockey Stick made the Medieval Warm Period disappear, GISS tried mightily to make 1934 cooler than 1998, but only succeeded in reducing the 0.5ºC lead into a dead heat. Notice that the 0.5ºC “adjustment” is more than half the supposed total warming since 1880.
  4. I would like to trust the work of taxpayer-supported science, but, it seems, we must rely on President Reagan’s advice regarding the old Soviet Union, “Trust, but verify!”

D. What We Can and Should Do – Energy policy (cap and trade scam vs carbon tax). Efficiency, conservation, “green“, and renewable sources.

  1. I am quite sure that Global Warming is REAL (i.e. the mean temperature of the Surface has increased by 0.5 to 0.6ºC since 1880) but, most of that increase is due to Natural Cycles over which we humans have no control.
  2. However, the warming is PARTLY Due to Rising CO2 Levels and human actions are PART of the Cause.
  3. There is not and never has been any real danger of catastrophe or even of serious net detriment to human life due to increased CO2 levels. Indeed, modest increases in these parameters are most likely a net benefit.
  4. However, we Skeptics have to be realistic in the current political climate. Like it or not (and I do not like it) the official climate “Team” (i.e., the “Hockey Team” :^) has convinced the political and media establishment, and much of the population that something has to be done. We cannot fight something with nothing, so we need something more than a passive policy of do nothing because nothing is necessary.
  5. Therefore, I favor reduction of the carbon footprint by efficiency, conservation, recycling, and so on, plus the introduction, if and when economically practical of so-called “Green” energy, including Nuclear, Water, Wind, Biomass and, particularly, “Clean” Coal.
  6. If nothing else, these will do minimum harm and, if successful, will reduce US dependence upon foreign oil. We have spent, and continue to sacrifice too much blood and treasure protecting our access, and that of our allies, to energy from unstable regions of the world.
  7. As for the Cap and Trade scam, it is a Politician’s Delight that rewards powerful Interests, wrecks the economy, and will NOT significantly reduce carbon emissions. It seems to me that some countries and US states that have adopted Cap and Trade have realized their folly and are backing away from it.
  8. You may be surprised that I favor some version of a straight Carbon Tax, collected at the mine, well, and port, with the proceeds returned on an equal basis to citizens and legal residents. Yes, James Hansen and (pardon the expression Ralph Nader) also favor it, but, so do conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer, the Wall Street Journal, and others on the right. My support for this tax is based on what I wrote above, “We cannot fight something with nothing” and “We have spent, and continue to sacrifice too much blood and treasure protecting our access, and that of our allies, to energy from unstable regions of the world.”

I’m interested in your critique and comments. (My Powerpoint presentation is available [click here] for you to use and adapt as you wish..)

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June 3, 2011 7:12 pm

Richard M says on June 3, 2011 at 7:24 am
..
Yes, and they don’t answer the questions I asked.
Why are you avoiding the questions?

B/c I grow weary … (and no signs you’re even trying, sport. Sorry.)

June 3, 2011 7:34 pm

A
June 2, 2011 at 7:40 pm
..
Please don’t be annoyed if I remark on the obvious (I claim no expertise here): We could as well say it in reverse: the air heats the leaves which radiate into space, i.e.,
No, we could not. Sorry. Non-negotiable. : )
However, it would be safe to say that heat energy is removed from boundary layer air, as it is affected (in contact with) the quote surface unquote.
Carts do not work well when placed before the cart! (Mind the order or sequence of events … it helps to keep things in their proper perspective and in the order in which they occur.)
It is, I think, a pretty big surprise to most people to learn the power of nighttime radiative cooling.
See for instance:
Wiki (of course) – Radiative cooling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_cooling
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Commercial product (I am not affiliated):
“Night Radiation Cooling with Roof Mounted SolarWall® Panels”
http://solarwall.com/posts/night-radiation-cooling-with-roof-mounted-solarwallr-panels21.php
“The use of a building’s roof to take advantage of long-wave radiation to the night sky has been long identified as a potentially productive means to reduce space cooling in buildings.”
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“NIGHT RADIATIVE COOLING
The effect of clouds and relative humidity” by Mike Luciuk
http://www.asterism.org/tutorials/tut37%20Radiative%20Cooling.pdf
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Theoretical Evaluation of the NightCool Nocturnal Radiation Cooling
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1502-05.pdf
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Video: Radiative Cooling (3 part series)
“Cooling buildings and cities naturally with higher albedos and night sky radiation. Large cooling capability without external power is easy once you know which materials and structures to use. In addition these approaches to cooling pump heat directly back into space, to improve microclimates around buildings.”

(See also parts 2 and 3)
.

Richard M
June 3, 2011 7:35 pm

_Jim says:
June 3, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Richard M says on June 3, 2011 at 7:24 am
..
Yes, and they don’t answer the questions I asked.
Why are you avoiding the questions?
B/c I grow weary … (and no signs you’re even trying, sport. Sorry.)

This has nothing to do with me, SPORT. You responded to my post with arrogance. And then you can’t answer even a couple of simple questions. Now you claim you are “weary”. LOL.

Myrrh
June 3, 2011 7:42 pm

Joel Shore says: /#comment-672762
June 2, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Re my: “Please see http://joannenova.com.au/2011/05/so-what-is-the-second-darn-law post 423″
That is certainly impressive, Myrrh.
Thank you, I’m so glad you noticed.
You and Postma have certainly done what I thought impossible, which is to make Joanne Nova look like the most intelligent, reasonable person on the planet by comparison!
Hmm, well, I haven’t read much Postma, who argued that AGW should be flagged as a theory and I don’t agree on giving AGWScience any credibility at all, science fiction is art not science. As for JoNova, in this, 2nd Law, she’s giving arguments from AGW justifying the fiction, which is the point I’m making in post 423, that this fiction passing itself off a real world science has become viral to the point that only those who really understand the 2nd Law, the applied scientists and such, are able to explain it properly and why that doesn’t make it clear for those affected by the virus can vary.
But it’s really my previous post 420 you’re commenting on here isn’t it? Your tick of disapproval..? My argument is from another direction altogether, directed to the specific wording which I also made to you – you have no answer for it any more than she has. You however appear still determined to continue the farce of pretending this is real science, she I hope will also see as you have that there’s a complete meltdown in the logic and having seen that it creates an impossible science will, hopefully, bear that in mind when reading any AGWScience’s ‘basic statements’.
As Ira has shown here in his recent series of posts – from being flummoxed by my objection to his claim that the heat we feel from the Sun is the Solar of UV/Visible/Nr Ir of the AGW science fiction energy budget, he continued in his next discussion post to attempt to simply dismiss it by misdirection re NASA, not referring to the actual NASA statement that the heat we feel from the Sun is Thermal IR, and now, he avoids it altogether, but still slips it in sideways, the fictional claim still there, but not directly stated, now it just sounds silly (A.3).
Now we call the imput energy ‘light’ because we see so much of it… ROTFL
That’s only the second time I’ve ever used that shorthand. He’s still avoiding it, because he’s still determined to promote the BasicScienceFiction memes of AGWScience.
I wasn’t going to bother replying to you, but I’d just read Wayne’s post and couldn’t get it out of my mind. It was why I had enjoyed Han’s post, his lucid explanation worth all the effort of having to force myself to read yet more Ira et al..
So, I began wondering just who this audience was of Ira’s from his “community”. He said it was the “”Technology, Engineering, and Science Plus”” group, and described them as ” astute” and “tech-savvy professionals” and said

they were likely to have opinions closer to the supposed “mainstream science” orientation than mine.

Now, it’s been concluded by many through the various posts by Ira here that he is not the “Skeptic” he presents himself, but, as someone said in one of them, ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing’, a confirmed AGW ‘warmist’ passing himself off as a skeptic to further the ‘warmist’ cause from somewhere in the background of it.
So thinking of this and the theme of this new post and the way it’s constructed, language and phrasing and so on, and thinking of previous discussions where it became obvious that such a method was being worked on, of presenting a supposed ‘skeptic’ view all while re-inforcing the AGWScience memes and promoting the ‘aims’ of the ‘background’, I had no sensible choice other than to come to the view I did – was his audience a group of disparate science background gathered together from common interests in science and in the general conned to believe the AGWScience meme and so this talk a first step in converting them to becoming skeptics, as he claimed, or a savvy real world science literate group being given the blue print to further the ’cause’, with all the niggly bits ironed out or removed from the knowledge gained by dint of the arguments against AGWScience in his previous posts (which Tim could do on the fly)?
If the second, then clearly popular to an already ‘skeptical’ audience because saying all the right things by first confirming some well-known examples, like Gore’s misdirection on the 800 year time lag, but, in between, the same old AGWScience controlled blame game against humanity, emphasised in bold, and, by the end even while dissing an obvious and junkable failure, cap and trade, producing a vast swathe of even more disastrous to humanity in general restrictions, a comprehensive list w*nk*d over by totalitarians to be imbided with the relaxed geniality of the presenter pretending to be a ‘skeptic’, so believed one their own and defences down. Hmm. How big is this group? What is the “community”?
So Joel, the NASA page said that the heat we feel from the Sun is Thermal IR, that’s a lot of heat energy on the move, why has that been excluded from the AGWScience’s Energy Budget as in KT97, and, why put in its place the Solar Light energies and shortwave either side which are claimed to be ‘thermal’, giving the properties of Thermal IR to them?
Where is the real world science proof that UV/Visible Light/Nr IR, which are not Thermal, are capable of converting to heat the land and oceans of the Earth raising its temperature as claimed, to produced the upwelling Thermal IR claimed? Show me real world science proof that Blue Visible Light heats the oceans, for a start.
Light energy is ‘cold’ in real science in contrast to Heat energy which is Thermal IR, it is therefore not thermal, remember that if you want to see clearly in the cold light of day.. 🙂 We do not feel Light energy as heat, Light can’t warm us up, and so, in real world science Blue Visible Light cannot and does not heat the oceans; its light weight nature scatters off the molecules simply changing direction, the water of the oceans as transparent to it as is the gas Air, our atmosphere. No conferring.

June 3, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting Omar Khayyam:
“The moving finger writes; and having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.”
– Omar Khayyam

Tim Folkerts
June 3, 2011 8:19 pm

>>Matt G to Myrrh: June 3, 2011 at 5:30 am
>>There is no thermal IR energy from the sun because it is from a
>>all shortwave source.”
>Wayne says
>But Matt, you do realize the energy received from the sun at 5778 K
>between 0.78 µm and 1000 µm (LW down) is 43% of all received joules.
wayne, I don’t thing there is any inconsistency here. “Thermal IR” generally refers to > 4000 nm = 4 um. So while ~47% if the energy is IR, only a few percent is “thermal IR”, while the vast majority of the IR from the sun is “shortwave IR” and “midwave IR”. So while matt’s statement that there is _no_ thermal IR from the sun is an exaggeration, the vast majority of the “long wave” thermal IR reaching the surface is indeed from the atmosphere.

Tim Folkerts
June 3, 2011 8:41 pm

O H Dahlsveen says many things June 3, 2011 at 4:30 pm, like
“Convection is called something completely different (K&T) like “Evapo-transpiration” ”
No,”thermals” are the convective energy transfer from ground to atmosphere. “Evapo-transpiration” is the earth cooling by “sweating” (water evaporating from the surface or by plants releasing water).
“If Nitrogen does not emit radiation it is a true “wonder of physics” – or are you telling me that 99.9 % or more of our atmosphere holds a temperature close to “Absolute Zero”? _ There is absolutely nothing special about CO2. -”
There is something special about CO2 and H2O and CH4 and the other GHGs — they have 3 or more atoms. This allows those molecules to vibrate in ways that emit IR photons. Theory and experiment both strongly support this special feature of triatomic molecules. If you consider this fact a “wonder of physics” I can’t argue — lot of things in physics (like the quantum mechanics of molecular vibrations) seems wondrous even when you do understand them.
And no, we are telling you that 96-99 % (not 99.9%) of the atmosphere is at about the same temperature as the the other 1-4% (the H2O and CO2 and other GHGs). If the GHG’s absorb extra IR energy and warm up, they pass that energy on the N2 & O2, so the entire mix will be about the same temperature.
“So you see your “Science” that says only those gases that can absorb radiation and can be heated by radiation are able to emit radiation have created a situation by which 99.99 % of the atmosphere cannot get rid of its energy “back to space” – as for that purpose radiation is the only option. ”
Again, that is not right — our science says nothing of the sort. The N2 & O2 can get rid of energy if the GHGs cool by radiation and the warm non-GHGs collide with the cooler GHG.
Most of the rest of your post continues with the same incorrect perspective of the gases in the atmosphere.

Myrrh
June 3, 2011 9:05 pm

Wayne – I’m back on this because Ira continues to claim that Visible light heats the organic matter of land and oceans as per the AGWScience’s Energy Budget, and the only Thermal IR in the upwelling from Earth as a result of this.
It’s an AGWScience meme that all energy creates heat. Simply not true. There can be chemical changes, Visible light in photosynthesis is not creating heat but powering the creation of sugars, and, fluorescence and phosporescence, the reflection of Visible Blue light off a molecule can be seen as an absorption and re-emittance of the same wavelength, no heat created, our blue sky and sea. Each energy must be looked at individually and related specifically via its own properties to the properties of whatever it encounters.
What is confusing here in the KT97, and deliberately so, is first of all excluding these other possibles and talking only of heat creation, and then, swapping round the properties of Heat and Light energies, of the classic simple traditional science description of the differences in their properties, misattributing. UV’s range is limited, it doesn’t penetrate any deeper than the first layer of skin, the epidermis, and our bodies utilise it for the creation of vitamin D. How is this heating land and oceans if at all? Thermal IR directly heats stuff.
It is, to me, inconceivable that Thermal IR is not the actual primary energy heating the land and oceans of Earth, it’s what it does, we know this every time we stand in front of a fire. That this is not included in AGWScience’s energy budget immediately makes it nonsense, but also, that these shortwave non-thermal energies have been given thermal ir’s basic property “converting to heat” can’t be claimed without giving proof that they can actually do so, light energies are well-known in physics for doing other things.
I keep bringing it back to Blue Visible to keep it focused, because the Visible has been given as the main heater of land and oceans and Blue light is given as an example of ‘this great power of Visible’, the ‘peak energy’, ‘because it penetrates deeper’ in the oceans. Can blue light from the Sun heat water?
If it can’t, then it must be taken out of the KT97, ditto the other Visible. What’s left then since they’ve excluded Thermal IR which we know heats stuff and reaches and has the affinity to heat the organic matter of Earth?

wayne
June 3, 2011 9:48 pm

Matt G, Tim thinks my info given to you is not correct but it is, I gave those using the divisions you gave at the visible. I no longer spend time with such trolling arguments so here is a table I did up for you and so you or anyone else can pick and choose the wavelength ranges as you wish or find useful. Just trying to help, unlike some others here. This uses a direct integration of Planck’s equations to make the splits. The sun’s temperature used is 5778 K with emissivity of one. Need others, just get my attention.

 Lower   Upper     Radiance
 λ(µm)   λ(µm)       W/m^2   Desc.
 =====   =====  ===========  =========
 0.060   0.100         2.61  Super UV
 0.100   0.200     94350.30  Vacuum UV
 0.200   0.300   1923198.17  Mid UV
 0.300   0.400   5708519.50  Near UV
 0.400   0.460   4657907.14  Visible - Violet
 0.460   0.475   1227578.83  Visible - Indigo
 0.475   0.490   1238162.04  Visible - Blue
 0.490   0.565   6155092.62  Visible - Green
 0.565   0.575    797941.00  Visible - Yellow
 0.575   0.600   1956409.05  Visible - Orange
 0.600   0.800  13057823.72  Visible - Red
 0.800   1.000   8567835.93  Near IR
 1.000   2.000  14001755.96  Near IR
 2.000   3.000   2473319.05  Near IR
 3.000   4.000    726064.96  Near IR
 4.000   5.000    284199.66  Near IR
 5.000   6.000    133033.68  Mid IR
 6.000   7.000     70322.14  Mid IR
 7.000   8.000     40589.71  Mid IR
 8.000   9.000     25041.22  Mid IR
 9.000  10.000     16276.09  Mid IR
10.000  11.000     11032.54  Mid IR
11.000  12.000      7740.87  Mid IR
12.000  13.000      5590.44  Mid IR
13.000  14.000      4137.63  Mid IR
14.000  15.000      3127.61  Mid IR
15.000  16.000      2407.84  Mid IR
16.000  17.000      1883.74  Mid IR
17.000  18.000      1494.81  Mid IR
18.000  19.000      1201.27  Mid IR
19.000  20.000       976.38  Mid IR
20.000  25.000      2886.09  Mid IR
25.000 999.000      3087.49  Far IR
                -----------
                63200990.09
Matt G
June 4, 2011 4:23 am

Thanks for your responces Wayne and Tim.
The sun hardly has a radiaoactive flux above 5µm.
http://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ees/slides/climate/blackbody.gif
5µm is only just in the MR, so essentionally there is no flux from the sun in the thermal IR. They probably is a tiny amount just going into the mid IR, but this indeed extremely small compared. Reason why this is not clear because different data sources have the flux not as high as 5µm, this is an exception.
These give an interesting presentation on all related backbody and how atoms emit light.
http://www.iem.cfmac.csic.es/departamentos/fismol/Jaca2009/Lectures/OpticalProperties_JACA_Delia_color.pdf
http://www.astro.washington.edu/users/christensen/astro101/Lectures/Day5.pdf

RJ
June 4, 2011 4:26 am

Tim Folkerts says:
June 3, 2011 at 8:41 pm
“Again, that is not right — our science says nothing of the sort. The N2 & O2 can get rid of energy if the GHGs cool by radiation and the warm non-GHGs collide with the cooler GHG.”
So what you seem to be saying is the atmosphere would have no way of releasing energy if it did not include GHGs.
There is something special about CO2 and H2O and CH4 and the other GHGs — they have 3 or more atoms. This allows those molecules to vibrate in ways that emit IR photons.
But as you well know O H Dahlsveen did not claim CO2 etc do not emit IR photons (or shouldn’t this be IR radiation as photons may or may not exist).
The question is not whether GHG’s emit IR radiation. It whether non GHGs like nitrogen can also emit radiation (it is accepted I believe that non GHGs can not absorb the surface emitted IR radiation).

Tim Folkerts
June 4, 2011 4:38 am

Wayne, I don’t think you are incorrect at all. Thanks for posting the chart, which looks correct to me and will help everyone be better informed.
The only point is that you, me, Matt and the rest of the posters could spend a long time in pointless arguement if we didn’t recognize that the division between “long wavelength” and “short wavelength” is rather arbitrary.
It is possible for both to be correct:
__ ~ 50% of the sun’s energy is “long wavelength” when you make the arbitrary “LW” division at ~ 0.8 um
(This is a natural division for people, since it divides visible from IR.)
__ ~ 1% of the sun’s enengy is “”long wavelength” when Matt makes the arbitrary “LW” division at ~ 4 um
(This is a natural division in climate science, since it divides the sun’s spectrum from the earth’s spectrum)

RJ
June 4, 2011 4:44 am

Ira Glickstein, PhD says:
June 3, 2011 at 9:28 pm
“I am not sure if the AGHE is responsible for exactly 33ºC, and I would accept evidence that it was some number of degrees more or less,but I have no doubt that the majority of the difference between 255 K and 288 K is due to AGHE. There is no other theory in the running as far as I know”
No other theory. There is the outstanding Postma paper as you well know.

RJ
June 4, 2011 4:54 am

Ira Glickstein, PhD says:
June 3, 2011 at 9:28 pm
“Perhaps your last sentence could be explained as follows. Suppose your child has saved 900 coins and you give him 100 coins every morning. But, because he has a hole in his pocket, he loses 10% of them each day. So, starting with 1000 coins (900 from the previous day plus the 100 you gave him that morning), And losing 10%, he again ends up with 900. So we have a steady-state condition. He leaves the house in the morning with 1000 and comes back with 900 and you give him another 100 the next morning.”
This is a very silly example Ira as you should know by now.

Matt G
June 4, 2011 5:10 am

Myrrh,
Mars emits thermal radiation at the wavelengths of 6000k. The Earth doesn’t emit at this wavelength beause all of it is absorbed by the atmosphere and ocean. This is the reason why Mars is colder than Earth because it is not able to absorb as much of this energy as the Earth and that isn’t is directly reflected back to space. The reason why Mars emits at a higher wavelength than Earth is because it is cooler and therefore emits energy at that wavelength of around 225k. The Earth emits at thermal IR because it is the temperature of the Earth’s blackbody. A blue star is much hotter than a red or dark one, links with info suggesting this before.
http://www.astro.washington.edu/users/christensen/astro101/Lectures/Day5.pdf

Myrrh
June 4, 2011 5:30 am

Matt G says:
June 3, 2011 at 5:30 am
I understand what you are saying, that light from the sun can’t warm the planet. Fair enough lets assume that this is correct, energy from the sun is warming the planet and light is just taking a ride with it. There is no thermal IR energy from the sun because it is from all shortwave source. This shortwave energy source (gamma even, natural very low background levelss) has been hitting the Earth for billions of years. If only thermal IR warms the Earth you are contradicting yourself with what warms the sun. etc.
Interesting, you see my explanations as contradicting myself and I see yours from AGWScience as likewise impossible garble.
This relates to the point I made that these ‘impossible in the real world memes’ because from AGW science fiction department, have gone viral, and those whose work does not directly hinge on knowing real science will take such things on trust, because these are now in the general domain as ‘well known’, and consequently, even ‘skeptics’ arguing from their own disciplines, background, who can pick holes in AGWScience from their own perspective, will take such science fiction memes on trust, even using them in their own calculations. This is what Jo Nova is doing, and every ‘skeptic’ who says, for example, well yes, Carbon Dioxide helps warm the Earth to some extent, and so on. Because the meme has become so ingrained in the general consciousness of those arguing for AGW, when not deliberately used knowing these are junk science as I see Ira doing here, then real science appears to ‘create’ all kinds of contradictions where in fact there is none and the merry-go-round of arguments continues – real science is consistent. But, you cannot see that consistency until you begin with the base premises as given in real, traditional, well tested and understood, science in our real world.
For example as I gave JoNova, with CO2 the science fiction meme gives it, and Oxygen and Nitrogen our atmosphere, the quality of an ideal gas, that is, no quality at all – no weight, no volume, no interactions with other molecules except elastic collisions in a vast empty space, etc., and so all the claims that it behaves like an ideal gas, which is purely imaginary, a useful tool for calculations, and so thoroughly mixes in the atmosphere of like imaginary gases. Real scientists working with these daily in all kinds of applications know that there is a difference between real gases and the artificial construct, like ‘average’, of the ideal gas, they understand how the laws apply in different contexts and how to use them and compensate for their deficiences when applying the formulas to real gases. No real gas molecule obeys the ideal gas law. That’s a meme from traditional science.
If you begin with traditional real world science with this you can see how the misapplication of ideal gas descriptions to real gases creates impossible worlds, if you don’t start with the basic real science premises you get stuck waiting for methane to spontaneously un-pool itself from the ceiling of the mine.. While all the time still arguing from the premise that real gases obey the AGWScience fiction laws, so how can it be understood that the weight of real gases relative to each other is an actual known fact because in the real world the atmosphere has volume, is not a vast empty space with molecules travelling at ideal gas speeds through it? So ask yourself, is it consistent with other known facts from traditional science, such as, how then does sound travel in the AGWScience fiction world if these ideal molecules are at vast distances from each other in a vast empty space? Tradition science is consistent, because gases have volume and subject to the variety of pressures and temps and gravity they do not move as an ideal gas in the imaginary space, they may well be moving extremely rapidly, but it will be ‘on the spot’, not through the other gas molecules, because the real volume of other molecules exist as an actual entity, an actual real medium through which they have to travel to get anywhere. Sound travels because molecules of the gas Air, don’t.
In the real world traditional science, gases are fluids, as are liquids and in contrast to solids, and movement of molecules within them will be as in fluid mediums, and, understanding this, that it is not empty space but a fluid medium with volume, the way sound travels is consistent with this. When you give a shout the force of the sound hits the molecules of the fluid gas Air near you and they in turn hit the molecules next to them, and so vibrate. That vibration is passed along through the medium until it reaches an ear and is heard or fades away when the force propelling it is gone. Like the way waves travel in the sea, it’s not the water moving from the start of the wave to travel to far distant shores because the water stays in place in its spot but the energy of the wave transmitted through which does the travelling, like ripples in a pong, just so, the molecules of gases in our fluid volume atmosphere stay on the spot, only the vibration is passed along as they bump into the molecules next to them. Where’s the empty, volumeless ideal gas space in that? There can be no sound in the descriptions of molecules and atmosphere from AGWScience.
So my point, and why I’m not a ‘skeptic’, AGW claims are based on premises that have no actual reality, there’s nothing to be skeptical about, it’s simply nonsense fiction because of the mixing of properties and processes.
So, if you begin with the real world traditional science about Thermal IR the rest of what I’m saying is consistent in other areas, just as real molecules like CO2 being heavier than Air sink and can separate out and sound can travel through the gas Air because they’re consistent with the properties of real gas molecules, which have real volume and interact with each other.
The real world traditional science is now very hard to find articulated directly and where it is still available in places in control of AGWScience it is being removed, such as the NASA page I’ve referred to.
So, your base premise about Thermal IR comes from AGWScience fiction, I can see this and you can’t. I can see it because I know what traditional science has been teaching about this for a long time, still teaching it because its properties and processes are still extremely well understood and used in real world applications. Just as in the real world real science understands the 2nd Law and that’s how real scientists can make things work, so real thermal infrared appliances are really built and really used to heat real houses and the people and stuff in them, and no appliances exist which produce visible light to heat these.
The AGWScience meme that is ‘ingrained’ in your consciousness as ‘well-known’ is shown here : There is no thermal IR energy from the sun because it is from all shortwave source.
Which is a variation on the description, explanation, from the meme from the AGWScience fiction Energy Budget, as in KT97, that it is the short wave light energies which convert to heat land and oceans of the Earth, that Thermal IR isn’t included in the downwelling from Sun and only included as a ‘result’ of the heated by short wave “Solar” Earth, because it doesn’t reach Earth in downwelling.
This is totally and completely aat to what is said about it in real traditional science: http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kid/imagers/ems/infrared.html is where traditional science was clearly and directly and unambiguously stated, that the heat we feel from the Sun is Thermal IR. You can now find the page cached on http://www.webcitation.org/5y68yeeRD – thanks to Anthony, I didn’t know how to do this.
Now think about that, if we can feel Thermal IR from the Sun on Earth, then it must be included in any ‘energy budget’, because it does reach Earth. Whatever variation you’re presenting, I’ve not heard it expressed as such before, has been built on creating the viral meme that only short wave heat energies heat the land and oceans.
There is still widespread understanding and teaching that the heat we feel from fires and stoves and the Sun is Thermal IR, but, if you’ve been following Ira’s posts on this, there is a concerted effort being made to obliterate this knowledge, by presenting the AGWScience meme in its place.
Even where it is mentioned and acknowledged as different teachings is become very rare, here’s one: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Infrared & http://www.webcitation.org/5y6Any4VA
Which says that in traditional physics Thermal IR is still being taught as the source of heat for the Earth, and then tries to misdirect out of this by repeating the AGWScience fiction meme.
So, I hope this ‘clears the air’ between us, that you’ll appreciate that I’m not contradicting myself, but that you are relating what I am saying to various memes about this which you have been taught. If you can separate these out and relate what I am saying back to my traditional science meme and so not applicable to the variations of your meme, you’ll see there is no contradiction.
Although, you must also appreciate that I too am on a learning curve of discovery in this, and am also liable to mistake an AGWScience meme for traditional science when it is slipped into something I haven’t sufficiently explored to tell the difference. But, I’ve explored it enough to be absolutely sure that real science teaching is that the heat we feel from the Sun is Thermal IR and this is what is heating us and the organic matter of the Earth, including the oceans. That in traditional science, Visible light is not thermal, does not create heat, but its energies used for chemical changes as in photosynthesis or in producing light energies. In simple scattering such as off the molecules of Nitrogen and Oxygen in the Air giving us a blue sky and by transmission through the transparent medium water in the oceans, where Blue visible transmits deeper than the other colours, the same wavelength going out as coming in until it fades away, or, in phosphorescence, a change of wavelength, as in the glow in the dark lights.
You can see how AGWScience builds up its impossible world when you start putting together the various false memes, that ‘all energy creates heat’ together with ‘thermal ir does not reach the earth’ is not our real world. And see then how this is limited to this impossible world only applicable to AGW, because it doesn’t travel into other fields of science knowledge – because it must perforce exclude real properties and processes and mangle by applying out of context laws and giving the property of one thing to another which doesn’t have it, to ‘prove’ it is ‘real science’ in the AGW claim.
For example, sound travelling cannot be explained by AGWScience because it has changed the properties of gas molecules to have no volume, the real energy budget cannot be explained because it has excluded the real source of heat thermal ir and given its properties to another wavelength which doesn’t have them in the real world because it needs the false fact of ‘backradiation’ to be from thermal ir only in the upwelling, if including in the downwelling, then we have to go back to the object producing it, the Sun, and that distracts from the object blamed, Carbon Dioxide. And so on.
It is an extraordinarily complex scam, but noting that some promoting it are deliberately doing so, changing ‘the explanation’ to suit the argument for example, shows that at some point in the evolution of this scam that it was taken over by those fully aware of what real science teaches, and so are deliberately undermining real science to produce a generation of scientific illiterates – the teaching in schools is now firmly in place in the ‘west’, those teachers objecting are subject to ridicule and worse..
So, that’s why there’s so much confusion in arguments pro and con, there’s a plethora of false science memes which are believed to be real science, so, for example, a pro AGW will be filtering real science fact given in an argument through what is considered real science in AGW. The 2nd Law arguments are a classic example of the confusion created here, ‘skeptics’ arguing against real science explanations because they believe that the false meme from AGWScience is real, and so try to ‘create’ an explanation that fits it. Creativity is our nature.
While we still have it available, and still acknowledged that there is such a thing as different teaching from traditional science, try beginning with the premises from real traditional science, just as an experiment – that heat doesn’t travel from cold to hot, that short wave energies do not heat the land and oceans but thermal ir which we feel as heat from the Sun does..
At the very least, you’ll be able to see where I’m coming from, so know not to expect that any of your explanations have any meaning in it and that filtering through such which don’t will only add to the confusion in trying to understand what the other is saying. In other words, each statement made by us must be examined in its context, we come from different worlds which have different physics. I hope I’ve gone some way to making this clearer.
[The JoNova post on this I linked to for the Methane/mine story and general point of confusion in the basic premises: http://joannenova.com.au/2011/05/so-what-is-the-second-darn-law post 423]

June 4, 2011 5:32 am

Matt G says:
June 4, 2011 at 4:23 am
Matt in the JACA 2009 lecture page 14 left hand graph has measured solar radiation outside atmosphere higher than theoretical blackbody at 5900 K.
I have always worked under the understanding that BB is the maximum so how can this graph be possible?

June 4, 2011 5:36 am

Ira Glickstein, PhD says:
June 3, 2011 at 9:28 pm
“I am not sure if the AGHE is responsible for exactly 33ºC, and I would accept evidence that it was some number of degrees more or less,but I have no doubt that the majority of the difference between 255 K and 288 K is due to AGHE. There is no other theory in the running as far as I know”
I and others have stated that PV=nRT can account for at least 18 degrees of the supposed 33 degrees. If gravitational pressure on a gas can create stars/black holes it can add energy to the atmosphere.

Richard M
June 4, 2011 5:52 am

Ira states: “That is what the GHGs in the Atmosphere do. They recycle about half of the radiant energy the Surface would have lost to Space back to the Surface,”
Yes, but that is not ALL they do. That was my point before. You are only looking at what GHGs do with energy being radiated from the surface. What about the energy that warms the atmosphere from other sources?
Yes, if one is to believe KT there are 3 other methods of warming the atmosphere. The thermals (17), latent heat (80) and the Sun (78). That is a total of 175 wm2 of energy that enters the atmosphere outside of surface radiation. That is about half of the amount of surface radiation. How is that energy dissipated? Well, it seems to me it is primarily radiated out to space by GHGs. What happens if we add more GHGs? Well, it would seem to me this energy is radiated even faster. Is that not a “cooling effect”?
Now, you might claim that half the energy is radiated downward, and while true the big catch is that energy would have stayed in the earth/atmosphere system had it not found it’s way to a GHG to be radiated downward. So, just like the energy a GHG absorbs from surface radiation and radiates it upward is not important, neither is a GHGs capturing non-radiated energy and radiating it downward. Opposite sides of the coin.
My problem is I do not know how to compute this effect. My feeling is that this cooling effect starts out low but is not logarithmic. It operates in 3 dimensions vs. 2 dimensions for the GHG warming effect. Therefore, it may approach the warming at some level of GHGs. Does adding more CO2 make much of a difference? I don’t know, but it seems to me that we need to at least mention this effect to have a complete description of GHGs. Ignoring it only leads makes one wonder if something is being hidden.

Myrrh
June 4, 2011 6:32 am

From traditional science and the understanding the light energies can be used to do work, etc. not just create heat, as in photosynthesis, here’s a page on Melanin, fascinating stuff: http://www.suzar.com/BOTW/BOTW-ch5a-pages53-54.html Melanin uses light energy to create images in the eyes.
And, that these processes are still understood by some working on them takes on a strange twist re melanin and nano-technology, I hesitated posting this, but the recent outbreak of yet another strange superbug blamed at first on cucumbers from Spain has the possibility of being something created during the experiments on melanin, the connection is there, it is being produced out of E-coli:

http://www.blackherbals.com/melanin_and_bio_nanotechnology.htm
Currently, melanin is being produced synthetically or isolated from natural sources. Natural sources include beef eyes, squid, hair, bacteria such as Streptococcus antibioticus and E. coli, the the human brain, among others.

Could this outbreak, which has been spreading and killing people throughout Europe in the last few days be an escapee from a science lab in Germany, as the recent foot and mouth in England turned out to be from a lab, or even, more insidiously, a deliberate experiment, as the ‘swine flu vaccine’ turned out to have been patented a couple of years before there was any such thing as swine flu? Shrug, I’m putting it in for general interest, it might have something to do with keeping the real knowledge of properties away from the public at large as we know that many in control of the AGW misinformation have eugenic ideologies driving them.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cucumbers-in-clear-ndash-so-what-is-causing-deadly-ecoli-outbreak-2291600.html
Checking the labs in Germany might be a quicker way of finding which veggie is the problem..

Joel Shore
June 4, 2011 7:21 am

RJ says:

No other theory. There is the outstanding Postma paper as you well know.

And, we have explained to you in detail what the problem is. Postma assumes some effective radiating level (using the experimentally observed value of ~5km). That level is in fact determined by the infrared absorptive properties of the atmosphere…i.e., by the greenhouse gases (and clouds).
mkelly says:

I and others have stated that PV=nRT can account for at least 18 degrees of the supposed 33 degrees. If gravitational pressure on a gas can create stars/black holes it can add energy to the atmosphere.

You can’t just rewrite the laws of physics to suit what you want to believe. The reason that gravity can “add energy” in the cases you mention is because of conversion of gravitational potential energy into other forms of energy. However, for this to occur there must be continual gravitational collapse. If you do not have that then energy conservation says that you are not going to “add energy to the atmosphere”.
Most physicists will not look kindly on a theory that violates the conservation of energy, one of the cornerstones of our understanding of our universe.

Joel Shore
June 4, 2011 8:46 am

Richard M says:

I don’t know, but it seems to me that we need to at least mention this effect to have a complete description of GHGs. Ignoring it only leads makes one wonder if something is being hidden.

Could you please show me a model…any model…of the greenhouse effect, whether it be a “toy model” or a full radiative-convective model that ignores Kirchkoff’s Law (i.e., the fact that the emissivity and absorptivity are equal at a given wavelength)? Good luck finding one because in fact all models represent this faithfully. Hence, you are just making up a problem that does not in fact exist.

Joel Shore
June 4, 2011 9:00 am

This is what continually amazes me in the ongoing discussion about the greenhouse effect: People post nonsense like Postma’s paper or the notion that “if gravitational pressure on a gas can create stars/black holes it can add energy to the atmosphere” and we tell you EXACTLY why these notions are wrong. It is not like we ignore them or just re-iterate what we believe to be a correct view of the greenhouse effect. We face these arguments head-on and tell you precisely where the error is made. And yet, they persist as if we have never discussed them.
Why does this happen exactly?

June 4, 2011 9:49 am

Richard M says:
“Does adding more CO2 make much of a difference? I don’t know, but it seems to me that we need to at least mention this effect to have a complete description of GHGs. Ignoring it only leads makes one wonder if something is being hidden.”
Yes, plenty is being hidden. The null hypothesis remains unfalsified, and it shows that the current climate parameters are indistinguishable from past parameters. That is why Kevin Trenberth is so desperate to replace the null hypothesis with his own perversion of the scientific method. Trenberth writes: “The null hypothesis should now be reversed, thereby placing the burden of proof on showing that there is no human influence.”
So the scientific method, which has brought about unparalleled prosperity, should now have the onus of proof tranferred from those proposing a hypothesis, onto scientific skeptics instead. Preposterous. But there it is.
The reason is because Trenberth knows he cannot get around the null hypothesis, which falsifies the alternate CO2=CAGW hypothesis. So Trenberth is willing to propose discarding the scientific method, and replacing it with his own invented version requiring that skeptics must prove a negative.
That is indicative of the alarmist crowd’s view of science: they are confounded by the scientific method because it makes a mockery of CO2=CAGW. But rather than accept the fact that there is no evidence showing global harm from CO2, they cannot let go; they want to dishonestly change the rules in their favor, so they can keep riding that gravy train at our expense.

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