Piers Corbyn showed up on Fox and Friends this morning to discuss his most accurate prediction of a bone-chillingly cold winter, and throw some ad hominem attacks towards the global warming “cultists”. Many comments in the blizzard stories on WUWT have touted the achievements and skill of Corbyn, but, as with any long-range forecaster, he has been embarrassed by some spectacular failures.
So, is Corbyn a “broken clock” right twice-a-day or is he a visionary that sees things in the tea-leaves differently and correctly? Well, after this blizzard and the European deep-freeze, apparently we haven’t seen anything yet!
We report, you decide … or something.
From Mediaite (click for video link):
Predicting in November that winter in Europe would be “exceptionally cold and snowy, like Hell frozen over at times,” Corbyn suggested we should sooner prepare for another Ice Age than worry about global warming. Corbyn believed global warming “is complete nonsense, it’s fiction, it comes from a cult ideology. There’s no science in there, no facts to back [it] up.”
I vote “broken clock”.
How could it be otherwise?
Has anyone else noticed how Biblical this forum is? In effect, we are now debating whether the king should continue to use the “seers” that were duly appointed by the state religion, even though they failed three harvests running, or change to the prophet who seems to hear the voice of god.
Relevant conclusion? Science is dead or we have been deceived into debating as if science were dead. (Neither the “seers” nor the prophet represent science.) Whose fault is this? That has a simple and straightforward answer. It is the fault of the Warmista. They continue to present us with policy initiatives that they say are based on the best science, yet they fail to produce the science. The best that they produce are nothing more than learned hunches. They have yet to produce one reasonably confirmed hypothesis as an explanation of some phenomenon. But they adamantly refuse to discuss scientific method because they know they can only suffer from such a discussion. The whole problem, then, is that in pushing junk-science on the public, the Warmista have moved us away from science altogether.
If Corbyn has no hypotheses behind his work, he is no better than the Warmista on methodological grounds, but he might be far superior to them on observational grounds. Tycho Brahe’s observations of planetary motions were far superior to those of Copernicus though both men were equally committed to hypotheses that would prove false.
R Gates writes: “Since ‘warmist’ scientists have shown why this winter’s cold and snowy Europe can also be attributed to AGW, we have a bit of a stalemate at the present time.”
Really if you do not have the background to easily dispose of the Petoukhov cart-before-the horse paper and the Cattiaux et al. 2010 tele-connection paper, you need only to go to school and study meteorology and climatology rather than pontificating that you understand anything about the discussion.
Oh good heavens! Since 1979??!?!?!!! Such a long time ago. Such a long record. Anything that long in existence must have significant information in it that can be used to predict what will happen in the future. For sure.
Whipper snapper.
To some passionate folks: Just drop your belief…it won’t change your ideals, even the new approach could make them more acceptable for everyone.
R. de Haan, a nice blizzard does nothing to the reputations of long term weather forecasters and politicians. The former can have no reputation because longer term weather forecasting for over two weeks or so is impossible. And politicians? Well.
Piers Corbyn would have had some reputation to speak of had he predicted the first timer of a Hudson Bay not frozen over by the end of the year, or had he predicted the record warm northern hemisphere winter of 2009-2010.
Maybe one …not so good prediction by Corbyn is the volcano warning of 20th April 2010, almost a week after the Iceland volcano:
http://www.weatheraction.com/pages/pv.asp?p=wact3&fsize=0
“Iceland volcano powers-up! WeatherAction warnings of volcano AND wind changes confirmed”.
I’m skeptical that Corbyn’s prediction within a week is better than these from super computers. Corbyn is a business man, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the solar activity and ENSO connection with local weather pattern is well suited for predictions more than several weeks into the future. I don’t trust that Corbyn is far better than e g Met in every predictions, even if he says that…
I used Weather Action for commercial weather forecasting over a period of three years and found them to be accurate on the whole.- the forecasts were used for 60 day look-aheads for planning to move jackup drilling rigs- (the rigs cannot be jacked down into water with a swell greater than 3ft which can cause costly delays to the rig move)
Our Client company saved literally millions of US$ planning operations around weather Action’s forecasts.
Sorry, Corbyn’s volcano warning is absolutely okay, since it’s an ash warning. It’s good!!
Magnus says:
December 28, 2010 at 9:25 am
I’m skeptical that Corbyn’s prediction within a week is better than these from super
computers.
Modelers are losing money: There a big commercial niche for a “WII Climate”, “X-Box Climate”…etc.(of course just for fun, as the real models and modelers).
@Theo Goodwin says:
December 28, 2010 at 8:48 am
“(Neither the “seers” nor the prophet represent science.) ”
Is that the voice of God, Theo, or just your hypothesis ?
[Alas dear Ulric – But today, is not the profit in the “science” ? …. 8<) Robt]
R. Gates says:
December 28, 2010 at 8:14 am
Those articles are from 2003 and 2005 and are excellent, but seriously outdated. The Arctic is changing FAST.
Out of date? I doubt it. I think you maybe putting the cart in front of the horse. It is not ice that determines the Arctic temperatures, it is the Arctic temperatures that determine amount of the ice. There is a 100 + years excellent correlation between Arctic magnetic field, Arctic temperature and the AMO, regardless of amount of ice.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NFC1.htm
Ice coverage varies with seasons, years decades, but underneath there is huge ocean 3km + deep, it is its currents and the thermal capacity of those waters that matter.
Thanks Ryan, very enjoyable article.
It is the Sun, who would have thought?
Happy New Year!
The Arctic OHC is dropping. How does that fit into the Arctic is “changing fast” meme?
Magnus says:
December 28, 2010 at 9:25 am
… I wouldn’t be surprised if the solar activity and ENSO connection with local weather pattern is well suited for predictions more than several weeks into the future.
They are not, at least not outside the tropics. Proving this is actually easy. Calculate simple statistical correlation between any weather measure and solar activity and/or ENSO in any temperate or (Ant-)arctic spot. You will find none. Any connection is lost in the butterfly effect. The latter proves that weather prediction for further than a couple of weeks is actually physically and mathematically impossible.
“Corbyn believed global warming ‘is complete nonsense, it’s fiction, it comes from a cult ideology. There’s no science in there, no facts to back [it] up.'”
There is no global warming, but global thawing is very real. The Earth has been thawing since the last severe advance of ice about 11,500 years ago. And until the next major advance of ice, the planet, on average, will continue to thaw.
The thawing is punctuated by variations in solar behavior. Right now, we are experiencing a temporary cold spell that could last for about 150 years, but eventually we will return to planetary thawing.
David Thomson says:
December 28, 2010 at 10:11 am
we are experiencing a temporary cold spell that could last for about 150 years, but eventually we will return to planetary thawing.
Not everything is lost for Global Warmers….just wait 150 years (if you can).That’s a good comfort!
R. Gates says:
December 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm
It will be most entertaining to watch Mr. Corbyn and his predictions over the next few years. Since ‘warmist’ scientists have shown why this winter’s cold and snowy Europe can also be attributed to AGW, we have a bit of a stalemate at the present time.
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R.Gates, I know you are one of the ‘honest warmers’ out there, but even you must be (or at least should be) uncomfortable with the malleability of AGW hypothesizing by now. Not once, anywhere in the mainstream AGW community, were more extreme, cold, and snowy winters forecast. Mild winters, with snow a thing of the past, were all we read about.
Now, with those predictions dashed, the hypothesis is revised to allow for a conceivable mechanism by which AGW could be causing this cold winter. But, given this revision, AGW must be reduced back to conjecture status, to allow for actual science (testing, measuring, verifying, reproducing, falsifying, rinse, repeat) to test this new proposed mechanism.
Yet, all we hear from the Believers is that AGW is as strong as ever, and there is no empirical evidence that will apparently falsify it (last night on Fox News, for example, an AGW supporter said the only thing that will falsify it will be stable, unchanging weather — a non-existent paradigm). I’m not sure how any clear-thinking person could ever get to even 75% certainty that AGW is happening. AGW as a legitimate scientific hypothesis would have died on the vine back in the 80s, under normal scientific methodology. Only political machinations kept it alive since, not sound science.
Ulric Lyons says:
December 28, 2010 at 9:37 am
@Theo Goodwin says:
December 28, 2010 at 8:48 am
“(Neither the “seers” nor the prophet represent science.) ”
“Is that the voice of God, Theo, or just your hypothesis?”
Obviously, Ulric, since the “seers” have produced not one reasonably confirmed hypothesis, with the exception of the 1850 account of CO2, they cannot represent science. I might have prejudged Corbyn, so that part is my hypothesis. Just think, Ulric, you can produce one reasonably confirmed hypothesis by climate scientists and show me wrong.
Play lots of poker or contract bridge. Learn about the theory of probability, and the nature of random distributions.
My wonderful teacher of physics (and math) in high school explained how “weather” works, and the randomness of wind flows, and why wind flows are random.
When H2O is entered into the mix, using temperature as a proxy for heat gain or loss is absurd.
I certainly can’t predict the future, and no one can. However, I can analyse the present. For instance, if I correctly set up a stick of dynamite with a 10 minute fuse and cap, and then light the fuse, it doesn’t take the ability of peering into the future to determine that 10 minutes into the future, there will be an explosion.
vukcevic says:
December 28, 2010 at 9:45 am
R. Gates says:
December 28, 2010 at 8:14 am
Those articles are from 2003 and 2005 and are excellent, but seriously outdated. The Arctic is changing FAST.
Out of date? I doubt it. I think you maybe putting the cart in front of the horse. It is not ice that determines the Arctic temperatures, it is the Arctic temperatures that determine amount of the ice. There is a 100 + years excellent correlation between Arctic magnetic field, Arctic temperature and the AMO, regardless of amount of ice.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NFC1.htm
Ice coverage varies with seasons, years decades, but underneath there is huge ocean 3km + deep, it is its currents and the thermal capacity of those waters that matter.
______
I very much respect your opinion, but I think you simplify things a bit. It is not simply Arctic “temperatures” that determine the amount of ice, when winds, currents, etc. also play a role. And by temperatures, I take it you mean water temperatures as well? Certainly, as you’ve carefully explained, a great deal of thermal capacity is in the Arctic water. More open water in the winter certainly means more of that heat is being transferred to the atmosphere. With approximately 1,000,000 sq. km. more open water in and around the Arctic this winter than in 2002 or 2003 (for example), and the lowest amount of sea ice we’ve ever recorded for Dec. 28th, might not this alter polar weather? Just a question…
Regardless, I shall follow your given link and study this proposed relationship between sea ice and the magnetic field. Thanks.
The Corbyn Effect:
Just when the Goliath AGW monster, backed by its equally horrific robo-predictor is threatening all in the village with certain death unless they turn over all their worldly goods, up from a gopher hole pops Piers (David) Corbyn, who with one swing of his sling hurls a deadly prediction that pierces the head of the Goliath, causing it to explode in a great snowstorm – to the absolute delight of the villagers, who commence dancing about and singing Ding Dong the Wicked Witch is Dead.
Just the fact that MET got it so disastrously wrong is not news. But when a little guy like Piers embarrasses all the “scientists” and politicians who are bent on extracting many pounds of flesh from the people, the public LOVES the story, which is now going international and viral. So now, Piers is getting ALL the press and isn’t afraid of saying straight up, no waffling, that AGW is rubbish. THIS is what people in the public are going to remember – that a little guy with no funding got it right, while all the other big shots, who are by the way, demanding payment for salvation, got it very, very wrong.
We may very well find that Piers has done more damage to the AGW cause among the general public in a week than all the scientific contention and email leaks combined.
DR says:
December 28, 2010 at 10:03 am
The Arctic OHC is dropping. How does that fit into the Arctic is “changing fast” meme?
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Please do give your sources for this…and please don’t simply give current sea surface temps for the Arctic region as any school boy knows, OHC and sea surface temps simply “ain’t da same thing…”
We didn’t know how aspirin worked until the 1970s (I think that was the decade the prostaglandin link was described), but:
1) It was recommended by physicians throughout the world.
2) There was good science that showed it was effective.
If Piers has a good track record (preferably against something more reputable than the Met Office) and is graded sensibly (all this adulation and the second storm of his forecast seems missing is not sensible), then I have no trouble embracing his forecasts. Until then, they make good entertainment but are not something I’d plan a trip around.
I am pretty horrified at the adulation on WUWT over last weekend’s storm. It makes as much sense as saying the storm was caused by global warming.
Livingston & Penn’s original paper was rejected by Science because it was mostly a statistical study and didn’t present a mechanism for the weakening magnetic fields. I think that was a poor reason to reject the paper. I wonder if the reviewers ever used aspirin.
Simpson’s Paradox in action:
1. RR Kampen wrote, “[…] lost in the butterfly effect. The latter proves that weather prediction for further than a couple of weeks is actually physically and mathematically impossible.”
Foolhardy. Dangerous to society & civilization.
2. Laurence N. Sheehan, PE wrote, “Learn about the theory of probability, and the nature of random distributions” / “[…] how “weather” works, and the randomness of wind flows, and why wind flows are random.”
The assumption of randomness is absolutely untenable.
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Ric Werme, perhaps you can be more specific about exactly which empirical relations (not to be confused with mechanisms which can be physically substantiated using mainstream knowledge) noted by Piers Corbyn you find suspect. Your comment suggests that you have passed judgement without first doing a nonlinear audit.
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R. Gates: Whether or not climate change is caused by humans is not the issue.