Things we don't know – about climate

This is a guest post by Paul Murphy – and I’d like to thank Mr. Watts for giving me this opportunity to present it here.

This is a very long post by WUWT standards – nearly 3,000 words all driving toward the basic conclusion that what we know about global warming is pretty much nothing: we’ve no baseline, so don’t know if it’s happening; we’ve no cost/benefit evaluation so don’t know whether it would be net positive or net negative; if it is happening we don’t understand its causation and if it isn’t we don’t understand why not; and really the only thing we’re pretty sure of is that the people jumping up and down screaming that they have the answers are either deluded or charlatans.

I drafted this article on November 19th, 2010. At about ten that morning the weather channel, which gets its data for Lethbridge, Alberta from environment Canada and thus ultimately from sensors less than ten kilometers from my house, said the temperature was -17C. At that same time, however, the sensors about four feet above my roof reported a temperature of -19.2C.

By coincidence, and again according to the weather channel, the all time record low for November here, -35.6C, was set on that same day in 1921.

The source number for that claim, presumably 32.08F, is actually an interpolation from various agricultural research and military facilities across southern Alberta, because the airport weather station has been moved a few times and many of the source records lost – but it should be obvious in any case that neither the thermometers in use at airports in 1921 nor the processes in place to record temperature supported anything like that level of precision.

So how cold was it here before I left that morning? there’s really no way to know – and how did that compare to 1921? I don’t know that either.

What I do know is that the values shown were averages taken over time; that neither instrument is predictably accurate to even one decimal place; and that the air between the two is of variable depth, variable humidity, in constant motion, and had markedly less than one chance in twenty-two of being at a real average temperature of -18.1C at about 10 AM that day.

So how does this extrapolate to sticking a thermometer into the troposphere to estimate our planet’s near ground air temperature? Well, in total the world has less than one sensor for every sixty thousand square kilometers; about three quarters of them are closely grouped in the United States, western Europe, and the militarily significant part of southeastern Russia; almost none have trustworthy time-of-readings records for more than a few years; most of the records are both short and discontinuous; most of the readings are accurate only within loose bounds; and an unknown proportion of the time series supposedly formed from instrument readings contain unknown interpolations.

There are other sources of information. For example, weather satellites have produced records for perhaps half the earth’s surface since about the mid seventies – but those records too have unknown source errors; may now contain accumulated and largely undocumented differences from the source data; show significant coverage bias favoring areas important to civil aeronautics; and are generally accessible only in the form of time series whose values are derived from real measurements pertaining mainly to the upper troposphere through calculations calibrated against the same ground sensor readings they’re used to extend and correct.

In contrast many of the proxy records are both long and internally consistent – but they don’t help because these are very coarse grained: whether they’re based on isotope decay or tree rings, the best “rulers” these produce are location specific and marked in decadal or century intervals, not globally applicable and marked in seasons or years.

The bottom line on this is simple: I can’t pretend to know the temperature within a few kilometers of my house right now to within a couple of degrees C without making basic scientific errors in everything from measurement and imagined precision to application – and when people like Jones and Hansen announce in all apparent seriousness that the entire earth is now 0.5C degrees warmer than it was during the period from 1961 to 1990 they’re asking us to accept a very precise number on the basis of data that’s much worse than mine and in the face of applicability, measurement, and computational ambiguities that are orders of magnitude greater.

There seem to be two arguments for not dismissing their claims as nonsense. First, that we don’t need to know the atmosphere’s temperature now because climate science is about change and X + 0.7 degrees will have visible effects regardless of the value of X. The Polar bear, for example, will go extinct and Manhattan will flood – except that we’re pretty sure the medieval warming period was just one of many such in history and not only did the polar bear make it through those embarrassingly undead, but what’s known of civilizational history in estuaries and around tidal basins from the Thames to the Yellow does not suggest the existence of longer term human noticeable flooding during any of those extended warm periods.

Second there’s the Foundation myth: the belief that it’s possible to predict the direction and extent of motion of something like a collection’s center of mass (or the chartrist’s Dow Jones average) without knowing anything about the motion of the individual units involved – or, in other words, that we can predict where a herd of cattle will go when stampeded without needing to know where they started, how many there were, what frightened them, much about the land they’re on, the direction each animal starts in, or even whether they’re actually cattle.

The Frank Slide took place on April 29th of 1903, about an hour’s drive from here when an estimated 90 million tons of limestone tipped off Turtle Mountain to bury the people, their town, and the railway beneath an estimated two kilometer rubble run-out. This slide hasn’t moved much since, has been extensively studied, is comprised of materials for which the basic physics of motion and energy transfer are well understood – and yet the best we can do in terms of placing its center of mass is plus or minus about fifty meters – roughly on the same order of accuracy as predicting yesterday’s temperature in Lethbridge to within a few degrees.

Basically the Foundation idea is intuitively obvious and makes for great science fiction, but the reality of any analysis aimed at actually making it work is that you need a secure grip on starting conditions, an understanding of the physics of change, strong boundaries on the range of change, and a small enough data set to make the simulation computationally feasible – so if you’ve ever wondered why the best known climate models come down to thirty or forty years of encrusted tinkering you now know: these models are continually adjusted to predict their own inputs, but cannot reliably predict excessions because the underlying climate science does not meet any of the conditions required for this kind of modeling to work.

So what do we know? We know that many of the people warning us of the horrible consequences of human caused global warming haven’t been the disinterested scientists they’ve pretended to be – basically from Hansen and Jones to Gore and Waxman most of the more deeply committed have shown themselves deeply corrupted. That’s sad, but even sadder is the hidden reality: that knowing Mann and Bradley made up the hockey stick to defend a lie doesn’t tell us anything about global climate change – it just tells us things we didn’t want to know about them.

Most people, of course, know the numbers don’t work but rationalize accepting alarmist conclusions anyway because they think that “greenhouse science” – the belief that increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will cause traumatic global warming – is settled; and so see the lack of response to increasing atmospheric CO2 in weather data as a reflection on the quality of the data, not the theory.

Basically these people assume the wolf to justify the alarm: picturing Gore et al as yelling “Wolf!” because “greenhouse science” proves the wolf – and then excusing the business of rather obviously drawing improbable conclusions from inadequate data as laudable and necessary moral sacrifice by experts committed to rousing the rest of us to action.

Unfortunately the science on greenhouse gas effects is not only not settled, the claims made for it seem rather more likely to be wrong than right.

Specifically, the usual assertion is that human actions distort natural processes to negative effect – with the supporting proposition being that the planetary atmosphere will trap more solar energy, thus causing atmospheric heating, when it contains relatively more greenhouse gases, particularly CO2, then when it contains relatively less.

The classic demonstration for this involves adding CO2 to the air in only one of a pair of similar, closed, containers; exposing both to a radiant heat source until the containers reach equilibrium with the surrounding atmosphere; and then comparing one or both of the internal temperature and/or duration of the cool down period for the two. Do it, and you’ll find that the one containing some additional CO2 retains more heat and the claim is that this demonstrates the greenhouse effect.

It doesn’t. The experiment actually demonstrates two things about heat energy capture and storage: first, that increasing density increases heat storage capacity; and, second, that increasing the volume being heated at some constant rate increases the rate of energy transfer. Imagine the same experiment with the addition of a piece of non reflective metal material of comparable weight to the CO2 placed in the jar previously containing only air. What you would find is that the jar containing the CO2 changes internal temperature more quickly than the one with the metal sliver does, but that the total energy transfers are about the same.

Basically doing only the first half of the experiment and not thinking about the result supports the case, but going beyond that does not – and neither does looking at what real world extrapolation from the jar experiment might mean.

Most importantly, the material in the CO2 enriched jar is of a fixed mass, in a fixed state, and there is no expectation that its energy absorption and retention rates will change over time. Imagine glimpsing the earth from some significant distance and it can look just like that: a gravitational container filled with air and a bit of heavier stuff in the center. But up close, time passes and things happen: water and greenhouse gases move into and out of the atmosphere, mixing occurs at different rates both vertically and horizontally, some surfaces are net radiators, others net absorbers – overall the longer term energy balance seems to work, but many of the specifics and nearly everything about the rates of change involved, are neither understood in the science nor modeled in the jar experiment.

For most purposes the biggest difference between the experiment and reality is that in the real world there’s only one jar: i.e. the CO2 introduced into the test jar comes from the test jar. Thus it’s true that the materials in the planetary jar change state over time – trees grow, coal burns – but because the total mass in the jar is very nearly constant, the assumption that the input energy is roughly constant means that the total amount of heat energy the entire system can hold in long term equilibrium against the space around it has to be close to a constant too – and thus that a glaciated world cannot become tropical without significant change in energy input.

Thus the bottom line on the argument that alarmists can justify patching over weaknesses and contradictions in the data they purport to base their conclusions on because the effect of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere is certain, is perhaps best illustrated in a joke generations of mathematicians have told about an experimental physicist testing the proposition that all odd numbers are prime: “1”, he says, “is, so is 3, -and 5, 7, 9, umm, 9, umm, 11 is, 13 is, 17 is, 19” -ok, they’re all prime and nine? experimental error, it’ll come out right next time.

So if we can’t believe in the data, the people, or the “settled science”, what can we believe? Perhaps that a hypothetical Canadian Canute party offering a credible commitment to end winter would win in a landslide? Or, more seriously, that all the fuss about whether or not humans are influencing global climate change has allowed the alarmist lobby to insert an obvious falsehood into the public consciousness on this issue: the belief that even minor global warming will produce terrible harm when what we know of both history and biology says the contrary is far more likely to be true.

By 10 PM on the evening of November 19th, for example, it was about -27 here with the wind chill dropping that down to an effective -40 something: an environment just as much the opposite of the green and fecund jungle most of the earth’s life has evolved in as the driest deserts in north Africa, central Asia, and Australia.

Come spring the area around here will go green with rain and erupt with life: people in our parks, ducks on our lakes, fawns in our coulees – and the water cycle effects that might well go with even a few degrees increase in “average” atmospheric temperaure worldwide might do the same for the roughly one third of the earth’s potentially arable land that’s now too dry or too cold for agriculture.

So there’s something else we don’t know: why do “greens”, people who profess to favor life and bio diversity in all its forms, so strongly oppose change most likely to strongly favor life and bio-diversity?

The obvious answer, that many of the leaders involved are merely using environmentalism as a handy bludgeon for the achievement of unrelated political or monetary goals, may well be correct, but is merely an ad hominem argument allowing us to dismiss them while telling us nothing about either the desirability or reality of anthropomorphic global warming.

So when you get down to it, what we know about global warming is pretty much nothing: we’ve no baseline, so don’t know if it’s happening; we’ve no cost/benefit evaluation so don’t know whether it would be net positive or net negative; if it is happening we don’t understand its causation and if it isn’t we don’t understand why not; so really the only thing we’re pretty sure of is that the people jumping up and down screaming that they have the answers are either deluded or charlatans.

Wow – so because I haven’t a clue how to go about getting the information needed to address any of this, I’m going to do what I did at about this time back on November 19th: throw another log on the fire, and watch The Good Guys on TV.

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John F. Hultquist
December 26, 2010 6:14 pm

DN says Onion should stop watching Roland Emmerich films.
I wondered where he/she was getting that crap.

December 26, 2010 6:24 pm

Paul Murphy,
“the basic conclusion that what we know about global warming is pretty much nothing: we’ve no baseline, so don’t know if it’s happening; we’ve no cost/benefit evaluation so don’t know whether it would be net positive or net negative; if it is happening we don’t understand its causation and if it isn’t we don’t understand why not; and really the only thing we’re pretty sure of is that the people jumping up and down screaming that they have the answers are either deluded or charlatans”.
Never a truer word.

Tom T
December 26, 2010 6:27 pm

Onion:
We know that the response to CO2 is logarithmic. We know the world has been warmer than it is now.

John F. Hultquist
December 26, 2010 6:28 pm
December 26, 2010 6:48 pm

Dear Paul
Thanks for a very well set out rebuttal of the AGW foolishness. In this site, you are preaching to the converted and I hope that you can get this good sense before some of the politicians who are backing this nonsense. Eventually Mother Nature will show them the error of their ideas, but it could cost years of human suffering.
Nicholas Tesdorf

Roger Andrews
December 26, 2010 7:12 pm

Spangled Drongo, Douglas:
Thank you for your earlier comments.
If you want a real “correction” problem, take a look at HadCRUT3, the IPCC’s official surface air temperature time series and the one it bases all its AGW conclusions on. Despite its obvious importance, HadCRUT3 is in fact based on three totally unproven assumptions, two of which (1 and 2) are probably incorrect and one of which (3) is definitely incorrect:
1. Sea surface temperatures are valid long-term air temperature proxies (HadCRUT3 is 75% based on SST readings that don’t measure air temperatures directly, which makes it basically a proxy reconstruction, like the Hockey Stick.)
2. The raw SST record is heavily biased by measurement method changes (which is the only way of explaining why it doesn’t look anything like an air temperature series)
3. We can accurately identify and quantify these biases (even though we don’t know how SSTs were measured for most of the period of the SST record).
Because of these assumptions HadCRUT3 contains some enormous “bias corrections” that can not only be shown to be wrong but which are known to be wrong (Thompson et al. 2008).
If anyone wants a data quality bone to chew on, they should chew on this one.
(Incidentally, I hope you can find this response. It would certainly make things easier if this blog had a “reply” option, like Judith Curry’s.)

Bruce Cobb
December 26, 2010 7:25 pm

LazyTeenager says:
December 26, 2010 at 5:08 pm
In practice people make decisions in the face of imperfect knowledge all the time. They apply their judgment, however imperfectly, to assess future risk.
Unfortunately, the Alarmist credo contains so little that can be described as “knowledge” that it renders it basically Grade A bilge. What they claim to “know” is so far from reality that it beggars belief to call it “imperfect knowledge”.
The only risk lies in making idiotic decisions based on it.

David Kitchen
December 26, 2010 7:26 pm

As a teacher who tries to make students aware of both sides of the climate debate it is always fascinating to find our more about the authors who write on climate related sites. I must say that I am familiar with most of the “warmers” as they are out in public and generally well known. I am less familiar with the background of contributors to this blog, as they are not often from the mainstream scientific community. I am always telling students that scientific credibility it important, and that they need to check who is writing before weighing different opinions, so if you could include short bios on the contributers and their qualifications it would be a great help for the general public who read this site. For example, when I tried to check on this author, the only Paul Murphy I could find who had written elsewhere about climate states in his own bio that he is “Originally a Math/Physics graduate who couldn’t cut it in his own field” Hardly a glowing recommendation. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/murphy/climate-vagaries-and-the-zdnet-time-machine/1319 Is this really the author of this entry? Must be some confusion… which is exactly why short bios and background would be a real help. It would stop this kind of confusion with students- or at least helps them reach an informed opinion on the credibility of divergent opinions.

Mike
December 26, 2010 7:43 pm

Paul,
What is so hard about the concept of a mathematical average? With more data random measurement errors tend to cancel out. Even the most extreme skeptics acknowledge the world is warming. What do you think is causing glaciers to melt all over the world?

Douglas
December 26, 2010 7:44 pm

LazyTeenager says:
December 26, 2010 at 5:08 pm
More seriously you could apply this species of argument just as validly , not just to the climate, but to everything. The result you would get is ridiculous. This tells you that the argument is just a big lump of sophistry. In practice people make decisions in the face of imperfect knowledge all the time. They apply their judgment, however imperfectly, to assess future risk. They do not say:
“my knowledge is imperfect
therefore I know nothing
therefore I should never take action”.
————————————————————————-
LazyTeenager. Not quite sure of your point here. But it seems that you are generalising and are being critical of people who are reluctant to take actions because they are not confident about the validity of the information they possess on a particular subject so they take no action.
Of course we know that life is about risk taking. But risk taking is also about good judgement. A businessman takes risks based on a whole range of factors but in essence he uses good advice and his own knowledge and usually risks his own money. We hear a lot about the successful ones and forget about the failures. But they are small cheese compared to what we are considering here.
Here we are not talking about ordinary risk. We are considering transferring the wealth of the ‘west’ (whole economies) to the so called ‘undeveloped’ nations and simultaneously destroying the means of creating wealth in the ‘west’. All of it based upon what is patently poor science and incredibly stupid politics. One needs to be pretty careful in these circumstances – it is not about not taking any action at all. It is more about being rather sensible. So you see Lazy, it is not quite the same thing as you quite flippantly, IMO, imply. It is not just an exercise in sophistry – as you might expect from teenagers testing their debating skills – it is a matter of the survival of whole economies.
Douglas

December 26, 2010 8:08 pm

Hari Seldon’s Foundation had (will have) a better track record than James Hansen’s has had so far. Shame he wasn’t (won’t be) in the climate business.

Douglas
December 26, 2010 8:44 pm

Roger Andrews says:
December 26, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Spangled Drongo, Douglas:
Because of these assumptions HadCRUT3 contains some enormous “bias corrections” that can not only be shown to be wrong but which are known to be wrong (Thompson et al. 2008).
If anyone wants a data quality bone to chew on, they should chew on this one.
(Incidentally, I hope you can find this response. It would certainly make things easier if this blog had a “reply” option, like Judith Curry’s.)
———————————————————————————–
Roger Andrews. Thank you for the information. While I am appalled that the science has been proven to be ‘shonky’ I am now even more concerned about the underlying cause(s) for it to be so. Naturally one does not like to mention ‘conspiracy arguments’ (smacks of paranoia) but the powerful financial and consequential political influences that underpin all the so called ‘science’ here convinces me that the ‘science’ has been tailored to suit wider agendas. The likes of Phil Jones seems to me to be ‘pawns’ in this game while Hansen seems now to be somewhat removed from reality. Both seem candidates for going under a bus in the near future.
I had to search for information about both the science surrounding climate and the motivation for producing the alarm about it because the main stream media was either silent or too shallow or biased in its coverage to be informative enough. That too is worrying because investigative journalism also seems to be a thing of the past. We sorely need bloggs like WUWT to glean information that allows us to arrive at rational conclusions. The USA seems to be the last bastion of political debate which offers the world a little hope to resolve matters like this. I look at Europe and the UK and shudder in despair. As I see it,the European Union is destroying democracy faster that the Soviets ever dreamed of.
Thanks
Douglas

December 26, 2010 8:59 pm

LazyTeenager says:
Paul says
—————
and really the only thing we’re pretty sure of is that the people jumping up and down screaming that they have the answers are either deluded or charlatans.
—————
And since Anthony’s readership is jumping up down and screaming that they have the answers this means that…….

You haven’t got a clue, and you’re not even aware that you’re clueless.
For the umpteenth time: Scientific skeptics have nothing to prove. The null hypothesis has never been falsified.
Paul is right. It is the purveyors of the repeatedly debunked CO2=CAGW conjecture who are going ballistic trying to convince skeptics that CO2 is causing harm to the environment. The fact that they have zero evidence for their belief leaves them only one choice: to jump up and down and demand that we must believe that CO2 is causing harm. In fact, their belief is only baseless conjecture.
Climate alarmists replace the scientific method with false claims of “consensus.” That pretty much sums up their entire argument.

Roger Carr
December 26, 2010 9:52 pm

Theo Goodwin says: (December 26, 2010 at 1:46 pm) Depending on where you live, you will find reports from twenty to a hundred thermometers local to your area. […] In that area, the range of temperature reports at any moment is about twelve degrees. If I discount the obvious outliers, the range drops to about 7 degrees.
A rather startling snippet of information, Theo. In saner times that alone would knock the bottom out of the boat.

tckev
December 26, 2010 9:52 pm

Excellent piece.
It’s also seem that the global bell jar of CO2 gas is overly simplistic. Research has found that the atmosphere expands and contracts – low earth satellites are affected by the friction effects.
Of the rest, basically this chaotic system starting from an unknown parameter set, with many close coupled feedback and loose coupled feed-forward links, is mostly unpredictable.
Ah! But the “settled science” of Mankind Attributable Globally Inconstant Climate (M.A.G.I.C.) computer model projects that all is lost. Therefore we fossil fuel users must be made to feel guilty and open our banks for all those that feel aggrieved by our evil methods of ‘improving’ mankind’s lot with affordable food, medicine, building materials, communications, etc., and give them all the money they require…

BigOil
December 26, 2010 10:34 pm

Thanks, Paul, for a very clear minded posting.
As a non- scientest I an looking for a simple explanation. It might be impossible.
I am amazed that all of the science is based an a 0.7C degree rise in a 100 years. Nobody talks about actual measurement, just warmest year ever, warmest decade ever. Why not show graphs of actual temperatures, not variations to the norm.

December 26, 2010 10:41 pm

Reading the comments, you see again and again the same arguments on CO2,
but the truth is that
a) some warming is caused by CO2 but nobody has any quantified measurements in the relevant range, i.e. from 0,02% to 0.05%. Experiments shown to me so far are all insufficient and/or without relevant value.
b) some radiative cooling is caused as CO2 also has absorptions in the 0-5 um range, but again nobody has any quantified mesurements of that
c) cooling is also caused by CO2 due to its participation in the process of photo synthesis. To carry out photo synthesis and “growth” you need warmth, hence the reason why forrests do not grow at higher altitudes and latitudes.
the question is what is the net effect?
Clue: LOOK AT THE PATTERN OF MODERN WARMING
at the various weather stations. If warming is caused by greenhouse gases, you would expect minimum temparature to show more rise. Yet, it does not.
eventually your conclusion will be that the net effect of more carbon dioxide in the air is probably zero or close to zero.
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/more-carbon-dioxide-is-ok-ok

ge0050
December 26, 2010 11:41 pm

The facts about climate change
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Climate_change

John Meget
December 26, 2010 11:50 pm

While I greatly enjoy reading the comments, I wish more people would post contrary views. As someone noted above, a lot of this is preaching to the choir. Is there any way to encourage AGW supporters to give their reactions to the points made in the article and the comments?

ge0050
December 27, 2010 12:00 am

Since CO2 causes climate change, why not tax Oxygen instead of Carbon? After all, there is a lot more Oxygen than Carbon in CO2. By weight CO2 is only 27% Carbon, and 73% Oxygen. Wouldn’t it make more sense to tax things based on their Oxygen footprint?

wayne
December 27, 2010 2:10 am

“BigOil says:
December 26, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Thanks, Paul, for a very clear minded posting.
As a non- scientest I an looking for a simple explanation. It might be impossible.”

Not impossible at all but you will have to read a bit of Kirchhoff’s law in thermodynamics. It basically says that emissivity (α) is equal, not just close, EQUAL to the absorptivity (ε) overall at equilibrium. This does no mean that all emission is in the same frequencies as the energy received, as on Earth, but that the total energy emitted at equilibrium is equal to the energy received. Equilibrium is the point when the temperature stops changing while in a steady radiative field as that of the Earth in the sun’s radiative field. A black high absorber is also equally a high or rough emitter at a temperature, the frequencies may be different in and out but this is speaking of total energy across all frequencies. A white or shiny low absorber is a low emitter of energy at a temperature.
Here’s the kicker for you to spend so time thinking about, if you have two balls (small planets), one black and one white in equal circular orbit about a perfectly steady radiation field like a steady sun for millions or billions of years, close and long enough for both to reach equilibrium, will they both EVENTUALLY end up at the same temperature? I have the answer and integration proof of the results but you need to think that one through yourself. Even my daughter go it right and she’s also non-scientist (there is no magical matter substance that escapes from Kirchhoff’s law overall all frequencies considered).
If you should come up saying yes then that is your impossible explanation you figured out yourself.
You see, our *true* global temperature is only dictated by the radiation field we float in usually measured as TSI or total solar irradiance. Black, shiny, white of rough makes no difference unless the radiation field is changing. Those objects if initially placed not touching anything (no conduction) in a totally evacuated warm room will all eventually end at the same temperature, guaranteed. The black or rough ones will get to equilibrium much faster but that’s the only difference. Same for our Earth in the void of space about a rather steady hot fusion reactor.
One ‘however’, with a gravitationally held atmosphere there is a certain point vertically at which an imaginary sphere with that certain radius is, in respect to radiation only, exactly the same as the Earth itself as viewed from space. At the surface of that imaginary sphere the radiation energy in all frequencies as a whole are equal incoming and outgoing. My spreadsheets indicates that height it at about 5400 meters (17,700 feet). Maybe someone else will follow that logic and come with a closer answer. It is curious that that is also very near the point of one-half of the sea level pressure.
Willis’s multiple posts on the clouds influences plays right into this thought line but it seems maybe it’s the mean height of the clouds that matters the most. Move the height of that imaginary sphere upwards and ground-level will get warmer, move it down and the ground-level would be colder due to the lapse rate to the equilibrium level. Just a thought.
Later.
PS: Hey, BigOil, can you send some of that money that others keep saying I’m suppose to get? Maybe you just have the wrong address. ☺

December 27, 2010 2:16 am

John Meget says
“While I greatly enjoy reading the comments, I wish more people would post contrary views”.
Agree. In the beginning, I was also astounded to discover that each site maintains its own flavor. However, the reason why I stay on WUWT is that it does not wipe comments like they do on other sites. Although everyone knows that generally speaking, WUWT is not AGW or CAGW, it does allow opposing views. You may get a hiding (from commenters) but at least your comments are not wiped. This is not the same on Sceptical Science and other pro-AGW sites. Imagine my frustration when making a large argument only to find the next morning it was wiped.

Bigoil
December 27, 2010 2:50 am

Wayne,
Your cheque is in the mail.

alleagra
December 27, 2010 3:28 am

Darren Parker: get’s warmer
What a truly Swiss Army Knife of a symbol is the apostrophe!

wayne
December 27, 2010 3:28 am

BigOil: Whoa! Now the cats out of the bag!
More serious, let me know if you can logic through that example above. I’ve spent a bit over a year sifting all of this science information and conflicting hypotheses and it is finally coming all together, for me anyway.