Our commenters have been on a roll lately. Yesterday we had this excellent point-counterpoint by commenter D Patterson on the Cucinelli issue. Today commenter Roger Sowell put forth the arguments on AB32 related to the Prop 23 to repeal it, to be before California voters on November.

Roger Sowell says:
Pro-AB 32 arguments:
Pro-AB 32 factions say that all its measures are worth doing because cutting CO2 emissions will stop global warming, and global warming in California causes the sea levels to rise and flood low-lying areas, the Sierra snowpack to melt or disappear, state-wide heat waves that cause deaths and illness, and many others. They also say that AB 32 will increase jobs and the economy. The way that AB 32 will increase jobs, they say, is by the net effect of all the requirements allowing each person to have an additional $5 per week for spending, or approximately $250 per year. The additional spending will go to purchases such as coffee at coffee shops, and retail sales. The increased demand for coffee shop baristas, and retail sales clerks will result in a surge in employment.
Pro-AB 32 factions say that private investors have pumped billions into California companies who will make revolutionary new products so that emissions of evil Carbon Dioxide, CO2, will no longer be necessary in beautiful California. The products will include smart-grid systems, home-generation of electrical power via solar panels, renewable power plants to supply one-third of utility grid power, advanced cars and trucks that consume about one-third less petroleum-derived fuel, and gasoline and diesel fuels that contain renewable components such as ethanol (for gasoline) and bio-diesel (for diesel, naturally).
There are many, many other aspects of AB 32, with 73 different line items in the Scoping Plan. Changes in the way people make choices are also part of the AB 32 Scoping Plan, with a significant change being scrapping the older and less-efficient home appliances for new and highly-efficient models. These include air conditioners. Proponents say that a home’s electricity usage will decline 40 percent by installing new appliances, while the price for electricity will increase only by about 13 percent. The net effect, they say, is the consumer will have more disposable cash each month. Presumably, that extra cash will be used to pay the installment payments on all the new appliances. Similarly for the advanced cars and trucks, which will use less fuel. The reduced fuel consumed (35 mpg compared to 25) will more than offset the increased fuel cost.
Proponents developed a nifty plan to allow a homeowner to be able to afford to install solar panels on the roof. The plan involves increasing the property tax bill, with the annual increase paid to a bank or other financier who puts up all the money for the solar panels and installation. If the homeowner sells the home, the new buyer takes on the payment obligation as part of his tax bill. Presumably, the payments last for 15 to 20 years. Also, proponents argue, the solar panels add to the home’s resale value.
Proponents also say that the cap and trade portion of AB 32 will not hurt businesses and industry, because they can actually make money if they just cooperate. Proponents maintain that a carbon credit will be worth $30, $50, even $100 per ton of CO2, so that if the business owners simply cut their CO2 emissions to a point below their government-mandated cap, they can sell the credits to others, thus enjoying a new revenue stream that will allow their business to grow and prosper. The idea is that one can either be a seller of these credits and prosper, or a buyer of these credits and not prosper.
There are many other pro-AB 32 arguments, such as more jobs created for solar panel installers, more construction jobs for renewable power plants, and the long-distance transmission lines to bring the power to the people, and factory jobs to fabricate solar panels and the smart grid components.
Anti-AB 32 arguments:
Implementing AB 32 will kill California by eliminating millions of jobs, causing massive bankruptcies, closing millions of small businesses and major corporations, and will do nothing to change the Earth’s climate.
As more and more scrutiny is applied to the world-wide climate scientists’ data, methods, peer-review system, and agenda, it is apparent that there is no cause for alarm over CO2 emissions, or any other so-called greenhouse gas emissions. The entire basis for CO2 causing the Earth to warm catastrophically is false. There are cities in California that show a pronounced cooling even while CO2 continues to rise – Eureka, Los Angeles, San Diego, and Sacramento. San Francisco shows a gradual increase in temperature that corresponds to population growth, but not to CO2 in the atmosphere. see this.
None of the dire predictions for California climate catastrophe have occurred since 1975, the period that climate scientists insist has shown an increase in Earth’s average temperature due to increasing CO2. In fact, sea levels are decreasing off the coast. Also, the past 40 years have seen much more rainfall than occurred in the first 40 years of the 20th century, with a state-wide average of approximately 23 inches since 1970, but only 19 inches from 1900 to 1940. Presently, the state’s lakes are full due to the recent rains and snow that is now beginning to melt. Heat waves have a long way to go to match, let alone exceed, the heat waves of the period 1920 to 1960.
On a more widespread or global basis, polar ice caps are not melting, but are growing. Sea level increases world-wide are at the same pace as far back as satellite records extend, even though CO2 continues to increase in the atmosphere. Hurricanes and tropical cyclones have not increased in intensity or frequency. In fact, ocean temperatures are decreasing, and hurricanes are decreasing too.
It is true that investors are pumping billions into California start-up companies, but as I wrote earlier, this is due to the increased price of oil. Such alternative energy, or renewable energy systems, ultimately must compete with oil. At the moment, these industries are incentivized with government subsidies, which can be removed at any time. Also, exchange traded funds (ETFs) that specialize in stocks worldwide that stand to benefit from global warming laws are under-performing the market, and by a wide margin. Investors know that global warming due to CO2 is on shaky grounds, and do not see any advantage in putting their money into such companies. see this and this.
The idea that the average homeowner in California will decrease his electric bill by 40 percent by installing new appliances and a new air conditioner is highly debatable, if not outright false. The largest consumers of electricity in a home are the refrigerator, electric stove and oven, clothes dryer, clothes washer, and automatic dishwasher. Of these, the electric stove and oven cannot be made much more efficient, if any. Homes built in the last 10 years (the 2000′s) have high-efficiency appliances due to construction laws. Homes built in the decade prior (the 1990s) likely have had their appliances wear out and either replaced already, or will be replaced soon. My estimate is that, at best, appliance replacement will decrease electric power consumption per home by 10 percent. This will be overwhelmed by the increase in electric power prices, which will be 30 to 50 percent. The reality of high-priced renewable electricity, with its required back-up power plants that burn natural gas, is a large increase in electric power prices. Where Californians currently pay approximately 14 cents per kWh for the lowest-tier of residential power, by 2020 the price will be at least 20 cents, almost a 50 percent increase.
Similarly, the idea that the consumer will save money at the gas pump by purchasing a high-efficiency car just does not make sense. The additional cost for a hybrid car is approximately $3,000, or if one wants to buy a VW Jetta with the high-mileage diesel engine, the cost is more than $10,000 additional. Meanwhile, all drivers in California must pay the increased price of gasoline, but not all drivers will purchase a new car. Those drivers who never purchase a new car, but must by economic necessity buy a used car, must not only wait years before a more-efficient car hits the used car lots, but must pay the higher price of gasoline while they wait. They will not have more spending cash in their pocket.
The idea of putting solar panels on homes in California to reduce grid demand has been around for decades. The economics have never been favorable until recently, with the three-tiered pricing for domestic electricity use in California. As to having the solar panels financed 100 percent by a bank, but having the home’s value increased, I’m not quite sure about that. It appears a homeowner could apply for the loan, have the bank pay for installing the solar panels, then sell the home at its enhanced value and walk away with an additional $20,000 or even $50,000 in his pocket, depending on the size of the solar panel system. The buyer would be obligated to pay the annual payments via his increased property tax bill. Hmmm….maybe I’ll go into the home-flipping business – but only if I purchase a home without solar panels.
Also, it appears that only the wasteful are in a position to benefit from solar panels on their home. Many of my friends, and my own modest lifestyle, do not have utility bills that soar into the higher echelons of pricing due to excessive use (as determined solely by the price-setting entity, the PUC). Thus, we and similarly situated people will not likely ever install a solar PV system – it just makes zero sense when power price is at 13 cents per kWh. On the other hand, maybe we can simply install the system using the bank’s money, then flip the house to a new owner.
The idea that Californians will be the ones manufacturing solar panels is highly suspect, given the manifold advantages of manufacturing overseas. Why would solar panels be manufactured here, when so many other products are made overseas where labor costs, and regulatory costs, are much lower? What is true is that solar panels will be installed using local labor. But after they are installed, what will those installers do? These are not sustainable jobs for the long run.
Cap and trade will dramatically increase the cost of doing business in California, to the detriment of in-state businesses. Arizona has already withdrawn from the regional cap and trade system, thus inviting California businesses to relocate to Arizona, hire people in Arizona, then ship their goods to California. The same is true of many, many other states where business conditions are much more favorable than are California’s. We have already seen every automobile assembly plant close in California, due to burdensome regulations, high taxes, high labor costs, high power prices, and now AB 32 wants to impose additional burdens on remaining businesses. It will not take much for businesses, say for example oil refineries, to shut down their refining processes and simply import gasoline, jet fuel, and diesel from other states or from overseas. Most California refineries are on the coast, except for the handful around Bakersfield. A shutdown refinery does not employ as many people, as it takes only a few to run the tank farm. Out of work refinery employees will have a follow-on impact on local businesses, especially those who provided parts and services to the refineries. The same is true for other industries, especially cement manufacturers, and other heavy industry.
The choice seems abundantly clear: vote to keep AB 32 in place and hope that the government knows what they are doing and will keep their word (and has that ever been the case in the USA, and especially California?), and that each person will indeed get that precious $5 extra in their pocket every week, and electric power prices will only increase 13 percent, and every homeowner will rush out to replace all the appliances and install solar panels, and every driver will immediately purchase a new car that achieves 35 miles per gallon, and every business will find some way to reduce their CO2 emissions below their cap level and sell carbon credits.
Or, recognize what business schools around the world (including the prestigious Harvard Business School) have taught for years (because it is a fundamental truth), that reducing one’s costs of doing business is the way to grow and prosper a business. Increasing the cost of utilities, and transportation for goods received and for goods shipped, when one’s competitors are not burdened with similar costs, is not the way to grow and prosper. Instead, it is a recipe for bankruptcy. Recognize that few homeowners have the ready cash, or credit, to purchase new appliances, and then recognize that many residences in California are rentals such as apartments. Rental apartments will not usually allow the renter to install new appliances, indeed, the only appliance the renter can replace is his own refrigerator. Not the washer, the dryer, the dishwasher, and certainly not the stove or oven. If the landlord replaces these, then rents will go up to pay for them. That will certainly wipe out that $5 per week that California promises will appear in every person’s pocket.
Florida looks like a nice place to go live… So does Texas. No income tax…
Roger Sowell, thanks for replying to my comment. Your defense of the business schools really made me smile; as you say, not all of their ideas work in the practical world.
My squadron of Large Whites is still on the runway, fuelled and ready for take-off!
“Also, it appears that only the wasteful are in a position to benefit from solar panels on their home.”
This reminds me of the the right to buy in the UK. A colleague at the time had a council house which he had looked after very well. His neighbour had let his house go to ruin. The government inspector came round and valued his house at twice the value of his neighbours – great incentive to look after government property.
When government incentives get involved the rational person postpones doing anything the government wants them to do until they can get an incentitve for it – and the incentive is big enough. In california that would presumably mean postponing the replacement of appliances and cars – even if it would make economic sense – until the government incentives are offered. I should imagine there are an awful lot of industrial plants around the world maintaining non-cost effective machinery in the hope they can get government to pay for the upgrade on the back of cap and trade.
There is a huge disconnect between the elitist eco-social-engineers and the common man. Compare this editorial with the comments from average working folks following it.
I work with a variety of clients throughout the country (US) including Calfornia. Just complying with the paper work is a massive bureaucatic endevour. Just the energy compliance regulations (Title 24) add pages of calculations and drawings to what a licensed engineer is required to show. Few of my clients are starting new businesses in California; more are moving to less regulated states (like Texas). So if the trend continues, the bill will be irrelevant because there won’t be any industry in California.
Roger, in the last 10 years California has lost over 1 million manufacturing jobs! Largely, due to State and Local regulations, especially the environmental ones. California’s working population in August, 2000 was 15.9 million versus August, 2010 of 15.6 million. Moreover, during that 10 year time frame California added another 4 million people to its population. Unless California changes its way and stops passing laws that chase businesses away, no amount of federal bailouts will help this state.
I ran across an interesting comment this morning:
Points to ponder on AB 32:
posted by Wayne in comments on CAPITOL WEEKLY
http://capitolweekly.net/article.php?xid=z6nkc7qp3o5t1j
• Sacramento State University reports estimated cost of $3734 per year per family due strictly to this AB 32.
• CARB has admitted that California alone cannot have an impact on reducing global warming and CO2 emissions.
• US EPA acknowledges that US action alone will not impact the world CO2 levels;
• US EPA (11 July 2010) said that bills in Congress will not reduce the total use of gas and oil of 20 million gallons per day for decades.
• LAO (CA Legislative Analyst Office) stated: CA economy at large will be adversely affected by implementation of climate-related policies that are not in place elsewhere. (Letter to Dan Logue, 13 May 2010)
• Even CARB’s own economic experts have recognized the fact that jobs will be lost because of AB 32. In fact, they recommend establishing a “Worker Transition Program” to provide assistance to people who lose their jobs because of AB 32 regulations.
• AB 32 does nothing for local pollution, nor does Proposition 23 do anything to increase local pollution.
• 5.5% unemployment for 4 consecutive quarters has occurred 7 times since 2005, 14 times since 1999, and 22 times since 1987.
When the loudest objections to any candidacy or initiative are focused on vilifying its financial backers, this often indicates that its opponents’ arguments on its merits are weak.
Vote yes on Prop 23 and suspend AB 32.
Link to LAO (CA Legislative Analyst Office) related to Prop 23 which supports Wayne’s last bullet point related to “unemployment rate was 5.5 percent or less for four consecutive quarters”.
http://www.lao.ca.gov/ballot/2010/23_11_2010.aspx
“since 1970, the state has had three periods (each about ten quarters long) when the unemployment rate was at or below 5.5 percent for four consecutive quarters or more.”
Looks like the news media is spinning the story to 3 instances rather then the 21-22 that actually occurred.
My father fled California for the South in the mid-1970’s and I am forever grateful. Consider the following:
I currently live in Tennessee, a state with no income tax, low sales taxes, and modest property taxes. If I want green power, I have the option of buying it. If I don’t then don’t have to pay for it. No one from the State of Tennessee is looking over my shoulders telling me or my kids how to live, managing my land use, or telling me if I’m using too much electrical energy, fuel, or water. Anyone looking to put a smart meter on my home is likely to have a shotgun shoved up his nose. My neighbors feel likewise. Big brother is neither wanted nor appreciated.
Three years ago, I paid a mere $165,000 for a fine 2,100 square feet of home an acre of land in an upper middle class neighborhood with outstanding schools and 30 minutes from work in downtown Chattanooga. My home is not underwater. Serious crime is almost non-existent. My daughter attends UAH for less than $16,000 per year (ex lives in Alabama). I pay for her college expense in cash – with money I earned that year. My son is likely to attend Tennessee Tech for not much more. Except for a modest home mortgage, I have no debt and substantial savings.
Next year, when my daughter graduates with her electrical engineering degree she will have the opportunity to work in the nations latest and most advanced auto assembly plant in the United States. Built by Volkswagen…in Chattanooga. I have zero concerns about her being able find a job and make a good living.
In comparison, the relatives I left behind in California are living in hell. One cousin has a 100-year mortgage, three kids, and absolutely no way to pay for his home in his life time. He makes as much as I do and has no savings. California income and property taxes take away most of his “surplus” income. My guess is he’ll have to rely on government handouts to get his kids through college – if they get the chance because daddy “makes too much”. He’s lucky to take his family on any outings. Can he afford to pay for gear to enjoy the outdoors? Saving for college or a good retirement? Forget it.
So, do I believe the tripe about any cost “savings” from loony California bureaucrats? You have got to be kidding. The states bankrupt both financially and intellectually.
Going to depend on 30% renewables? If you want to rely on wind “power” with an abysmal 30% capacity factor and equipment that self destructs in 6-8 years – well be my guest. Or solar, yea great idea – with typical availability of 6 hours out of 24 – if you’re lucky. Oh and after you paid a fortune for the solar cells…well get ready for the bill for all the batteries/conversion equipment needed to convert all that “free” power you collected into something useful.
So…the State is going to pay for those solar cells by “increasing” your property taxes? The state’s bankrupt, good luck getting those taxes lowered. Oh… and of course we all believe the bank that made the loan will be paid with the hard cash you paid the state… or will they? Maybe the state pays them with IOUs? …State bonds? Or maybe the state merely declares bankruptcy and the bank doesn’t get paid at all? Yep that’s a formula for creating confidence during fiscal crises.
Going to hope PG&E can convert their fleet of natural gas electric generating units with carbon sequestration technology? Well…better take a hard look at the cost of post-combustion carbon capture on a natural gas based integrated combined cycle. Big hint, it pales in comparison to placing the same controls on a coal unit on a per $/ton CO2 or $/kw basis. Dilute CO2 concentrations after the turbine make CO2 hard to capture.
Only a 30-50% price increase in electrical cost? Only if you’re very very lucky. One only has to look at the rapid increase in construction cost over the last couple of years – particularly the price of steel for carbon capture equipment. I’d say your bureaucrats are in for some serious sticker shock.
Oh but not to worry, there will be a 40% decrease in electrical demand. But…wait what about stranded investment in electrical projection? Oh but the bureaucrats assure us this will be no problem! Maybe because PG&E will be covering its stranded cost with fewer assets and employees – meaning more money for very little effort? What a great deal for PG&E!!!
Going to save on your auto fuel cost? Let’s see, after paying a premium for an “all” electric car that has a range of roughly 25 miles or a steep premium for a hybrid. You’ll have the joy of 1) knowing your “saving” fuel cost on that car you can’t drive anywhere (much less get home); or 2) of knowing you could go a long ways…if you could just afford the fuel.
So…the State says your auto fuel cost are going to go down be because they have mandated fuel mileage is to go from 25 mpg to 35 mpg? Not so fast. The capital, variable, and fixed cost of the refinery didn’t drop. Reality is that the last marginal cost refinery dies and the few remaining have control of the market. Simply means the few refineries left get to charge 30% more to make up the difference.
Going to sell all that “renewable” technology/power to States not buying into the AGW view? Well…not so fast. Better take a good look at who has the lowest manufacturing cost in the United States. Blades for those wind mills? Ahem…well might want to take a peek in back yards of manufacturing facilities in the South. Pretty good chance the blades have been constructed by a major French-owned firm whose manufacturing facilities happen to be located in ah… well… Chattanooga, Tennessee. Solar cells? Ah well Tennessee again. Of course these are cash only contracts – not going to trade our hard labor for California bonds. And, of course, when the California bubble burst we’ll simply shift production to more profitable ventures. Course if quality is not an issue you can always contract with… China.
But, hey your bureaucrats say your industry will be competitive with other states. Let’s see… electrical costs are a major component of manufacturing cost aren’t they? You’re going to be paying 20 cents/Kwh compared to Tennessee’s 6 cents/Kwh – just for residential power. Yeh…boy that’s a competitive edge. Gee why didn’t we see that one coming? Yep. Got us quaking our boots. Boy just gotta find a way to do business in California.
Look I’m a fifth generation Californian. As a kid I lived in Long Beach, San Diego, Stockton, and Walnut Creek. Many years ago, my great uncle Roy was head of the California’s Republican Party. Another great uncle was dean of the Stanford School of Business. My grandfather was on the president’s staff at Lockeed during WWII and was on Republican steering committee until his death several years ago. And my grandmother was California’s’ “teacher of the year” several years in a row until her retirement (she died at 100). My family has made many contributions to the state. I love the state. But there is no-way on god’s green earth that I would ever move back. The loonies are in charge of the asylum.
I hope the current citizens of California come to their senses and vote in favor of prop 23.
Kforestcat
peterhodges says:
October 7, 2010 at 1:27 pm
there is no reasonable justification for supporting ab32, even if you bought the CAGW hype.
prop23 gives a reason for californios to go to the polls and actually accomplish something… a rare thing in an american election.
and i would point out for any single issue voters out there, whitman strongly opposes firearm ownership while jerry brown has been a life long supporter of the second amendment. as CA AG brown has allowed a panoply of loopholes allowing us citizens of the PDRK to stock up on items otherwise by law forbidden.
unfortunately, brown sides strongly with CAGW alarmists …endquote
Good points…here is one more: We DO have the Constitution’s second amendment to safeguard firearm ownership, with or without Jerry Brown. Right now with the politicians in power we have no government protection from CAGW alamists–THEY are running the ship of state.
Great comment, Kforestcat. Your cousin should get out while he still can.
hstad,
“Unless California changes its way and stops passing laws that chase businesses away, no amount of federal bailouts will help this state.”
I don’t see California’s leaders wanting businesses in this state – excepting a rare few leaders. I have heard CARB (California Air Resources Board, an un-elected state agency) employees state that they would be just fine with every car an electric car. That way they can get rid of the polluting refineries. They would also be thrilled with every kWh being produced from wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, or geothermal. Then they could eliminate those polluting gas-fired power plants. They also would be thrilled with every hot water heater powered by electricity, that way then can ban gas-fired hot water heaters and eliminate all the pollution from them. Same for home furnaces that burn natural gas. They have already banned wood-burning fireplaces in new homes, and they would like to ban them in existing homes too. The same for any business that creates even a small amount of air or water pollution – dry cleaners, auto repair shops (those create oily liquids, VOCs, dirty dusty brake parts, etc). Car washes should be banned because the soapy water is a pollutant.
Yet these same environmental regulators allow the Malibu residents (read: rich, rich, rich movie stars and producers who vote Liberal) to have septic tanks that overflow their raw sewage into the ocean on a regular basis. That same group of environmental regulators have allowed school buses to emit black billowing clouds of diesel smoke for decade after decade.
Marcus Sadak