Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

http://newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/thatcher.jpg

Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he got $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher – the world’s first climate realist
Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.
First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?
Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.
So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.
This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.
I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).
The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.
On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.
The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.
I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.
The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.
Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?
Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.
First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.
Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.
Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.
Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”
Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.
As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.
Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.
A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.
The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”
Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.
In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.
George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.
But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.
In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.
Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.
In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.
In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

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Shub Niggurath
June 16, 2010 9:14 pm

Mosher
Why hasn’t an increase in greenhouse gases produced a significant temperature rise in the past 15 years?
Regards

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 9:35 pm

Steven Mosher says:
June 16, 2010 at 8:16 pm
“I’ll take that since Lord M, has actually programmed RTE’s…….”
Steven, sorry, I can’t help it, but, …….I wouldn’t put a lot of weight into what some sharp character did on an Osborne 1 almost 30 years ago. While I could go into the multi-directional emission of heat by our friendly CO2 and the one-way absorption theory, you’ve already been there and I see no need. I liken the CO2 problem as a question of : If I spit in the ocean, will the sea levels rise? Yes, until the sun evaporates it. It is amazing to me that the alarmist have just now realized the water budget. H2O doesn’t die or go away, it simply moves to different forms. Oddly, they consider that to be the only element to have a budget. The earth does, too. But wind and fire?

Sean Peake
June 16, 2010 9:39 pm

Eric Paisley ( 7:26 pm)
LOL! That was funny. That was the best impression of a troll I have ever read. Brilliant!

JAE
June 16, 2010 9:39 pm

WOW, one of the most entertaining posts/comments I’ve ever seen! Funny how people with real integrity change through time.

pat
June 16, 2010 9:40 pm

btw has anyone heard anything out of penn state re the investigation of Michael Mann?
it’s way past the 120 days when the report was due and i haven’t seen a mention anywhere:
3 Feb: WUWT: Penn State report on Mann: new investigation to convene
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/03/penn-state-report-on-mann-new-investigation-to-convene/#more-16007

Michael Larkin
June 16, 2010 9:45 pm

M’lud,
I’m a genuinely great admirer of yours when it comes to your tireless role in combating alarmism. But Maggie Thatcher, with respect, initiated changes to British society which in my opinion have made it sick. In a way, I think that actually fosters alarmism through misplaced and confused reactions to the over-emphasised values of materialism and greed. Great changes in society perhaps inevitably contain the seeds of their own potential destruction – in ways that aren’t necessarily the right corrective.
“Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.”
Thus spake Gordon Gekko in the film “Wall street”; but now we have lost our sense of a deeper morality and hankering after Truth. Sooner or later, this will necessarily result in a proper correction; let’s just hope that when it comes, it won’t be unbearably painful.
As I indicated, when it comes to your fight against alarmism, I hold you in the highest esteem. You have more commonsense in your little finger than all the opposition put together. They are “frit” of you, as Maggie might have put it, and rightfully so. All power to your elbow, sir!

Martin Mason
June 16, 2010 10:08 pm

Derek B, Demolition? For Chris Monckton (or anybody else with half a brain) it would be like being savaged by a dead sheep. I saw the insulting garbage on George Monbiot’s blog too. As Mr Monckton says, 14th grade zoologist? Now that is a demolition and an insult to 14th grade Zoologists.
Many thanks for the article and for the reminder of Mr thatcher, the greatest UK politician at least in my lifetime

wayne
June 16, 2010 10:13 pm

Christopher of Brenchley, hope I can address you as such, I used to be envious of you guys with those Osborns. My Wang computer weighed at least 15 stones and definitly wasn’t what you call portable.
So you have loved programming from way back too, now I know how you know so much. Those were the days, right? People today don’t have the foggy what I am talking about but you do, that I am certain of after reading above! Write you DBMS in the top 48K so you still had 16K left for all of your hundreds of programs, chain as necessary!
Enjoyed your story.

Ray
June 16, 2010 10:40 pm

A Great Story about a Great Woman.

June 16, 2010 11:07 pm

Derek B says:
June 16, 2010 at 5:41 pm (Edit)
letting the laird flaunt his wit on WUWT does not enhance the blog’s reputation for accuracy and fairness.

You’ve got Gore, we’ve got Monckton. No wonder you spit through a mouthful of sour grapes.

June 16, 2010 11:08 pm

James sexton. Sorry, RTE’s are working everyday physics. Ask anybody who has designed a space borne sensor looking down, or an earth bound sensor looking up,
or a platform trying to hide from sensors that see longwave radiation. Like this gorgeous beast:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-23
As I can attest the same physics that predicts (first order) warming from C02 was used to design this plane. Because that physics works.
Feedbacks… that’s a separate question, but GHGs including H20 and C02 do exactly what the RTE equations say they do. Of course, way back then in the 80s I would have been sent to jail for some of the information here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology
Read the section on IR stealth. In order to understand whether or not the plane
radiating IR at 50K feet could be seen on the ground required that we understand how IR travels through the atmosphere. The physics are well known and are described by the RTEs. In order to make the plane less visible in IR .. well go read what we did. That’s not all of it.
Anyway the physics is right.

June 16, 2010 11:12 pm

Nick Stokes says:
June 16, 2010 at 6:08 pm (Edit)
Here is Lady Thatcher’s speech on climate change, Nov 6 1990. She must have forgotten Lord M’s advice. An excerpt:
“I want to pay tribute to the important work which the United Nations has done to advance our understanding of climate change,…. blah blah.”

And then immediately goes on to say:
“Of course, much more research is needed. We don’t yet know all the answers. Some major uncertainties and doubts remain. No-one can yet say with certainty that it is human activities which have caused the apparent increase in global average temperatures. The IPCC report is very careful on this point. For instance, the total amount of carbon dioxide reaching the atmosphere each year from natural sources is some 600 billion tonnes, while the figure resulting from human activities is only 26 billion tonnes. In relative terms that is not very significant. Equally we know that the increases of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere date from the start of the industrial revolution. And we know that those concentrations will continue to rise if we fail to act.
Nor do we know with any precision the extent of the likely warming in the next century, nor what the regional effects will be, and we can’t be sure of the role of the clouds. “

June 16, 2010 11:25 pm

Hi Shub,
you trust the temperature record? hehe. In any complex system you are going to see transient responses that go in opposite direction to the forcing. You should know this, but over time as internal inertias are played out the forcing will have its way. As I said, increased GHGs won’t cool the planet in the long term. You are not arguing that they will are you?

June 16, 2010 11:29 pm

Eric Paisley says:
June 16, 2010 at 7:26 pm (Edit)
Monckton is a right wing fantasist. Margaret Thatcher was a relatively rare creature in nature, the female psychopath, and there are millions of people waiting to dance on her grave.
She is also absolutely reponsible for the politicisation of the global warming scam. Her speech at the UN and the establishment of the Hadley centre and the appointment of environmentalists Sir John Houghton and Phil Jones. She turned Britain into a post industrial banking fiefdom, and that is a big clue as to what is happening.
Thatcher was selected as party because her husband Dennis was a director of Burmah oil. Big American oil interests loved the war against coal (and the unions). Norman Tebbit stood aside to let her run. There is absolutely zero chance the tories would have elected a woman in the 1970s without some ulterior motive. Women hardly even drove cars in the UK then (if a man was available).
The prime movers and shakers of AGW have been oil and gas people. Margaret Thatcher (Burmah), Ken Lay (Enron), Al Gore (Occidental Oil), Pauchuri (indian Oil Corp).
Monckton simply does not want to face up to that fact. It doesn’t suit his (slightly outdated) anti communist agenda.

I know it doesn’t go down well here, but the fact is, Eric Paisley is spot on with this comment, and this highlights the dangers of polarizing the AGW issue into simple political caregories. The fact is, the AGW agenda is a tool of oppression which is being used by governments and high powered corporations run by liars of every political stripe.
Know your enemy.

June 16, 2010 11:58 pm

Steven Mosher says:
June 16, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Increasing GHGs will increase the earth temperature. Lord M, Christy, Spenser, Lindzen concur on this. The issue is how much.

I notice you make the implicit assumption that increasing co2 won’t lead to decreasing water vapour or increased cloud cover. No-one to my knowledge has yet refuted Miscolzci.
What we do know is that the ocean loses more heat through evaporation than it does through radiation. And it’s water in it’s various forms which is the big dog on the climate block. Higher temperature will cause more evaporation. Whether that will lead to faster hydrological cycling, more cloud cover, shifted jet streams causing cooling we are not sure. From where I’m sitting, Water vapour looks like the regulator of Earth’s temperature, and Earth has shown itself to be pretty stable temperature wise on geological timescales, give or take the regular ice ages.

Gareth Phillips
June 17, 2010 12:02 am

Interesting. As a right wing European politician Thatcher was still way to the left of American presidents ( yes, even Obama). Hopefully understanding this will end all this nonesense about warmist agendas being linked to left wing thought. America does not have left wing politicians, in practise they range from the right wing to far right in politics. European politics are very different.

John R. Walker
June 17, 2010 12:02 am

Margaret Thatcher let the Hadley Centre genie out of the bottle and promoted it globally – Nigel Lawson as Chancellor found the money to pay for it… It has become obvious since that Crispin Tickle, John Houghton, and others had their own agendas and that the early IPCC Reports were the foundation upon which the current politicised AGW drivel is based.
What has not been obvious by word or deed until very recently is that either Thatcher or Lawson had any misgivings at the time about the direction the IPCC and so-called climate science was taking or that they initiated any steps to put the AGW genie back in the bottle…
So I still regard them both as being part of the problem and not a significant part of the solution.

John Trigge
June 17, 2010 12:09 am

Derek B Says….
How come there is a slide detailing Lord Monckton’s non-publishing and lack of ‘climate science’ qualifications but there is nothing about Al Gore’s lack of credible accomplishments?

Alexej Buergin
June 17, 2010 12:21 am

” Steven Mosher says:
June 16, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Increasing GHGs will increase the earth temperature. Lord M, Christy, Spenser, Lindzen concur on this. The issue is how much.”
Spenser/Spencer:
The poet and the guy from Boston whose first name we do not know have two “s”, Roy W. has an “s” and a “c”.
(I was just on a cruise and read one book by “c” and 8 books about “s”. All 9 were very good. Highly recommended.)

June 17, 2010 12:32 am

By the way, the nicely retouched image of Thatcher looking all regal in the headline pic should be contrasted with one of the clips of her the British nation laughed it’s collective arses off at on the best political lampoon tv show ever: Spitting Image.

tonyb
Editor
June 17, 2010 12:33 am

Derek B says:
June 16, 2010 at 5:41 pm
“Anthony, given the near total demolition of Monckton’s credibility handed out by John Abraham (http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/), letting the laird flaunt his wit on WUWT does not enhance the blog’s reputation for accuracy and fairness.”
I had previously seen that link about Abrahams critique and sat all the way through it. I think we must see things in context. Monckton has become a bit of a showman. I certainly don’t agree with everything he says or the manner in which he expresses it. Although he is mostly right he can be prone to a degree of exaggeration.
However, when talking to a large group of laymen on a complex subject it is necessary for someone like Monckton to make headline points that will grab the audiences attention. I saw Dr Ian Stewart do this at Southampton folowing his BBC Climate wars tv programme and several of us gasped audibly at some of the things he asserted as factual. (Dr Stewart -probably like Abrahams-is a charming man in real life)
Abrahams is writing/speaking a rebuttal that will be read/heard in a quite different context to that of Monckton. Many of those readers will be alarmists and some might already have an element of knowledge.
I quite liked Abrahams character, his modest way of speaking and apparent thoroughness. I thought his presentation rather dull and found it difficult to keep relating back to the original slides of Monktons that he was referencing.
I thought a number of Abrahams points to be rather questionable-particularly those relating to temperatures, ancient and modern. (Sea level rise is also another hockey stick waiting to be broken) There were also several other pieces where he highlighted information that was too small to be properly read and asserted it disproved Monckton when it didn’t.
If anyone had the time it would be most interesting to do a critique of Abrahams critique. I suspect it wouldn’t hold up to the cold light of day as well as some of his cheerleaders on this blog might expect. I would do it myself but I have six articles on the stocks, all at varying stages of incompleteness, including ones on the LIA, MWP and Arctic ice melt through the ages . Consequently I do not have the time to get involved in other projects (unless Big Wind will fund it)
If any of the regular contributors here have the time and interest however I think a dissection of Abrahams work would be a worthwhile exercise.
Tonyb

Martin Mason
June 17, 2010 12:45 am

Mr Mosher
The physics is simple and never in doubt (why do people like you not understand that) what is in dispute is the actual forcing in a real atmospheric situation as opposed to a physics book or lab experiment that can not simulate an atmosphere. The workings of anti stealth technology also has no relevance whatsoever to climate, the article you referenced was merely a statement of the obvious. The actual radiative forcing of CO2 has been seen to be weak whatever the physics says. Or are you saying there are some unforseen positive feedbacks that haven’t shown themselves yet?

toby
June 17, 2010 12:57 am

Someone once said that “All political lives end in failure”, and Margaret Thatcher was no exception. She is the main reason that her Conservative Party has failed to gain a majority in Parliament since the election of her successor, John Major, in 1992. In Wales, Scotland, and the North of England, the public became so disgusted with her policies that the opposition Labour party has an almost permanent stranglehold on seats there. Most of the alienation and disillusion came from Mrs Thatcher’s personal arrogance and increased centralised personal power around her and her “Policy Unit”.
In the end, she was run out of office by her own party colleagues, afraid of a electoral disaster.
Lord Monckton may try to bask in the reflected glory of the Iron Lady, and from what I read he needs a boost right now, but Mrs Thatcher was not all she is cracked up to be. A more sober and realistic appraisal of her career might come to different conclusions.

CodeTech
June 17, 2010 1:00 am

Gareth Phillips says:
June 17, 2010 at 12:02 am

Interesting. As a right wing European politician Thatcher was still way to the left of American presidents ( yes, even Obama). Hopefully understanding this will end all this nonesense about warmist agendas being linked to left wing thought. America does not have left wing politicians, in practise they range from the right wing to far right in politics. European politics are very different.

You can’t end “nonesense” with an absurd, baseless, ludicrous, nonsensical assertion.
The left in America has been attempting to socialize the country for decades. What they can’t do legally they bypass the system. Failed to learn the harsh lessons of socialized medicine from all of the other countries mired in it? Bring in an even more obviously flawed version! Can’t pass insane and crippling “cap and trade”? Re-classify one of the most essential parts of food production as a “pollutant”.
If you honestly believe Zero-bama is anywhere to the right of anything approaching center, then your perspective has to be just shy of Mao and somewhere between Mussolini and Che.

toby
June 17, 2010 1:09 am

Like tonyb I sat through John Abrahams’ critique of Lord Monckton’s presentation, and my main question for Lord Monckton is this:
How was John Abrahams able to contact all the sources for your talk, but you, apparently, were not? How come some of the authors you cited had not even heard of you? One would have that thought that someone delivering a presentation based on the best of current science would have taken the trouble to contact at least some of the sources involved, and ascertain that they agreed with what was being presented?
Someone mentioned Al Gore above, and of course Mr Gore has also been accused of errors and misrepresentations. But al least Gore seems to have based his talks on the best of the science available to him, actually talked to scientists and used a science advisor.