Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

http://newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/thatcher.jpg

Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he got $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher – the world’s first climate realist
Guest posting by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.
First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?
Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.
So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.
This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.
I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).
The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.
On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.
The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.
I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.
The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.
Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?
Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.
First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.
Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.
Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.
Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”
Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.
As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.
Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.
A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.
The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”
Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.
In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.
George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.
But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.
In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.
Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.
In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.
In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

Margaret Thatcher: the world’s first climate realist

by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Anthony Watts’ earlier posting about Margaret Thatcher’s sceptical approach to the climate question prompted some comments asking whether I could add anything to the story, since I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

First, what on Earth was a layman with a degree in classical languages and architecture  doing giving advice on science to the British Prime Minister, who was herself a scientist and a Fellow of the Royal Society?

Truth is, British government is small (though still a lot bigger and more expensive than it need be). The Prime Minister’s policy unit had just six members, and, as a mathematician who was about to make a goodish fortune turning an obscure and hitherto-unnoticed wrinkle in the principles of probabilistic combinatorics into a pair of world best-selling puzzles, I was the only one who knew any science.

So, faute de mieux, it was I who – on the Prime Minister’s behalf – kept a weather eye on the official science advisors to the Government, from the Chief Scientific Advisor downward. On my first day in the job, I tottered into Downing Street dragging with me one of the world’s first portable computers, the 18-lb Osborne 1, with a 5” screen, floppy disks that were still truly floppy, and a Z80 8-bit chip which I had learned to program in machine language as well as BASIC.

This was the first computer they had ever seen in Downing Street. The head of security, a bluff military veteran, was deeply suspicious. “What do you want a computer for?” he asked. “Computing,” I replied.

I worked that weighty little box hard. It did everything: converting opinion-poll percentages to predictions of Parliamentary seats won and lost (we predicted the result of the 1983 General Election to within 1 seat); demonstrating a new type of index-linked home loan that removed the inflationary front-loading of interest payments and made it easier for working people to buy the State-owned houses they lived in (we sold a million, and turned cringing clients of the State into proud homeowners with a valuable stake in Britain); and calculating the optimum hull configuration for warships to prove that a government department had defrauded a lone inventor (he go $1 million in compensation).

The tiny computer back-engineered the Social Security Department’s model that showed the impact of changes in tax and benefit rates on different types of family; discounted Cabinet Ministers’ policies to present value to appraise their viability as investments; and worked out how much extra revenue the Government would get if it cut the top rate of income tax from 60 cents on the dollar to 40 cents.

On that one, I was right and the Treasury were wrong: as I had calculated, the rich ended up paying not only more tax but a higher percentage of total tax, even though the top tax rate they had previously paid was 50% higher than the new rate.

The only expenses I ever claimed for in four years at 10 Downing Street were £172 for soldering dry joints on that overworked computer, on which I also did the first elementary radiative-transfer calculations that indicated climate scientists were right to say some “global warming” would arise as CO2 concentration continued to climb.

I briefed my colleagues in the Policy Unit, and also the Prime Minister herself. My advice was straightforward: CO2 concentrations were rising, we were causing it, and it would cause some warming, but at that time no one knew how much (plus ca change), so we needed to find out.

The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.

Did she even mention that “global warming” presented an opportunity to give nuclear power a push and, at the same time, to do down the coal-miners who had destroyed a previous Conservative government and had also tried to destroy hers?

Certainly not, for four compelling reasons.

First, nuclear power was politically dead at that time, following the monumentally stupid attempt by the Soviet operators of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to shut it down without external power just because they were curious to see what would happen.

Secondly, by then the mineworkers, under their Communist leadership, had long been defeated, and we were making arrangements for the deep, dangerous, loss-making coal-mines that had killed so many brave pitmen to be shut down and replaced with safer, profitable, opencast mines.

Two mineworkers came to my farewell party at 10 Downing Street: the first miners ever to enter Downing Street during a Conservative administration.

Thirdly, Margaret Thatcher was never vindictive: it simply was not in her nature. If any of us ever suggested taking any action that would unfairly disadvantage any of her political opponents, she would give us the Gazillion-Gigawatt Glare and say, very firmly and quietly, “Prime Ministers don’t, dear!”

Fourthly, she had an unusual mind that effortlessly spanned CP Snow’s Two Cultures.

As a former food chemist, she possessed the ruthlessly honest logic of the true scientist. As a former barrister, she had the vigor and articulacy of the true practitioner of the forensic arts. Too many scientists today are in effect politicians: too many politicians pretend to be scientific.

Margaret Thatcher was genuinely both scientist and politician, and was able to take the best from both roles without confusing them. She would not have dreamed of doing anything that in any way undermined the integrity of science.

A little vignette will illustrate her scientific integrity. In the late 1970s, a year before she won the first of her three General Elections and became Britain’s first woman Prime Minister, I had sent her a tiny piece of propaganda that I had designed, the Labour Pound.

The little slip of paper bore this simple message: “This is a Labour Pound. This is how small your banknote would be today if it had been shrunk to match the fall in its value under Labour. Vote Conservative!”

Margaret Thatcher noticed at once that the piece of paper was a little too small. Inflation had been bad under the Labour Government (at the time it was running at 27% a year), but not that bad. “Do it again and get it right and be fair,” she said. Humbled, I did as I was told – and tens of millions of Labour Pounds were distributed throughout Britain at the subsequent General Election, to satisfyingly devastating effect.

In 1988 it was my successor at No. 10, George Guise, who traveled one bitterly cold October weekend down to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country house, and sat in front of a roaring fire writing the speech that would announce a government subsidy to the Royal Society to establish what would become the Hadley Centre for Forecasting.

George remembers how he and the Prime Minister chuckled at the irony of writing a speech about “global warming” on an evening so cold that he could hardly hold his pen.

But that’s October for you: a couple of years ago the scientific illiterates who now inhabit the House of Commons voted for the Climate Change and National Economic Hara-Kiri Bill by one of the largest majorities in Parliament’s history, with only three gallant MPs having the courage to defy the Whips and vote against – and this on the very night that the first October snow in 74 years fell in Parliament Square.

In due course, the scientific results began to arrive. It became as clear to Margaret Thatcher as it has to me that our original concern was no longer necessary. The warming effect of CO2 is simply too small to make much difference and, in any event, it is orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective to adapt to any consequences of “global warming” than to wreck the economies of the West by trying to demonize CO2 and cut our emissions.

Margaret Thatcher was very conscious that the Left tries to taint every aspect of life by attempting to politicize it.

In her thinking, therefore, there is genuine outrage that the coalescence of financial and political vested-interest factions in the scientific and academic community that are driving the climate scare should be striving to bring the age of enlightenment and reason to an end by treating scientific debate as though every question were a political football to be kicked Leftward.

In the elegant words of my good friend Bob Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute, she is interested not in “policy-based evidence-making” but in “evidence-based policy-making”. The present crop of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic could learn much from her honest, forthright, no-nonsense approach.

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James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:13 pm

lmao, I’m watching/listening to that Abraham link. Now he’s rationalizing the disappearance of the MWP in the IPCC/MM hockey stick graph. Nice reference!!!

June 16, 2010 6:13 pm

Derek B
The climate modelers got it spot on. They predicted the end of snow in England a decade ago, a hot summer in 2007, 2008 and 2009, a warm winter in 2008, and a warm winter in 2009.
I would say that you just demolished your credibility.

Dr A Burns
June 16, 2010 6:20 pm

As always, an excellent presentation … and quite illuminating.
What was behind Thatcher’s NFFO ? It has been presented as having been a means to promote very uneconomical nuclear power to reduce CO2 emissions.

George E. Smith
June 16, 2010 6:22 pm

So what is your beef Derek; you got to post your little Abraham link didn’t you.
I don’t think Viscount Monckton has ever overstated his credentials. And here he has simply relayed some history he was in on. So maybe you should be challenging him on his recollection of THAT HISTORY; instead of dragging in some tenured heavyweight who himself presumably isn’t a climatologer either.
I’ll certainly defer to Professor Abraham, if I need some thermodynamics instruction; but when it comes to history of the Thatcher Government and years I think I’ll take Lord Monckton over Prof Abraham.
But you can go on and continue to try and hijack the thread. At least here YOU have no basis for questioning the blog’s accuracy and fairness; you got to say exactly what is on your mind.
If Chasmod inadvertently altered your message; then I will apologise; otherwise try to say something on message (if you have anything to say; that is).

Christoph
June 16, 2010 6:22 pm

Mike makes a fair point.
At the very least, it shows Christopher Monckton was being highly generous in his statement, “The Prime Minister’s response was equally hard-headed: we were to keep an eye on the problem and come back to her again when action was necessary.”
This leaves the reader — to wit, us — with the impression Thatcher was very circumspect about the issue until all the data was in, at which time she agreed this was essentially a non (or at least very minor and easily remedied) problem.
Mike has proved just the opposite is true.
I appreciate that in this last decade, Margaret Thatcher came around to what I, Christopher Monckton, and Anthony Watts et al. agree is more likely to be a correct position … but Monckton’s guest article, while great reading and often insightful as to his own burgeoning scientific expertise, was grossly distortative with regards to Margaret Thatcher.
And I like Margaret Thatcher.

June 16, 2010 6:23 pm

pwl on June 16, 2010 at 5:24 pm says :
Being an assembly language programmer … assembly language programmers don’t take any guff from higher level programmers … highly tenacious and out of necessity are doggedly persistent not letting go till the details are on target and correct!

Count another SAL (or ASM) programmer in the ranks; including time on the Z-80 and a TI-960 … the real-time debugging on the Z-80 necessitated interconnection of a 256-step deep 16 bit-addr + 8 bit-data HP logic analyzer … cross-assemble the code, download to target and execute … taking a ‘snapshot’ on LA of the execution progress … no step-by-step debugging possible to debug this particular real-time app (off-air reception/decode of a 3.6 kbaud GMSK signal) …
.
.

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:24 pm

Mike says:
June 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm
“You people are down right Orwellian. Thatcher said what she said. If you disagree with her fine, but do not pretend she was one you. Get real.”
Mike, there are many of us that once believed that tripe. Well, not me, but many here. The fact is, a great many people here once believed the alarmism. But that was 20 years ago and most of us learn by observation. I’m guessing you don’t know anything about the book she wrote circa 2003. If you knew about the book, you’d have read about her warning us about the alarmists and about how irrational they are. You see, many of us took the “scientists” at their word for several years. As it turned out, our trust was misguided. It’s a learning process that one must choose to participate in, else you’ll doomed to believing everything you’re told.

June 16, 2010 6:25 pm

Robert says:
“Monckton’s claims have been and will continue to be refuted time and time again by John Cook, John Abraham, Peter Sinclair and the boys at real climate.”
You said it exactly right, Robert: the boys at RealClimate. The same boys who got whupped good by a real man, Lord Monckton, in the single debate that Gavin and the other boys [and one girl] dared to engage in.
As usual, the Viscount and his team rubbed their noses in the playground sand. And you can’t do that without facts.
My own view is that the warmist folks are simply envious: what have they got? Gavin Schmidt, an amateur juggler with an accent? The discredited Michael Mann? Al Gore?? While WUWT has a real, honest to goodness Lord. A Viscount, who takes them to the woodshed! *snicker*

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:26 pm

lol, forgot to finish the obvious line of reasoning.
So, we don’t have to pretend she was one of us. She is one of us.

June 16, 2010 6:33 pm

Since it’s let’s quote Margaret Thatcher time, here’s one that Paul Deacon posted last week:

Margaret Thatcher, “HOT AIR AND GLOBAL WARMING” (pp. 449-458):
“The doomsters’ favourite subject today is climate change. This has a number of attractions for them. First, the science is extremely obscure so they cannot easily be proved wrong. Second, we all have ideas about the weather: traditionally, the English on first acquaintance talk of little else. Third, since clearly no plan to alter climate could be considered on anything but a global scale, it provides a marvellous excuse for worldwide, supra-national socialism.”

Lady Thatcher is retired, so she can write things that she couldn’t when in office. Such as calling climate alarmists “doomsters.” heh.

June 16, 2010 6:38 pm

Mike on June 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm says :
You people are down right Orwellian. Thatcher said what she said. If you disagree with her fine, but do not pretend she was one you. Get real.

Nice valiant try, Mike; I see the date on your correspondence as the year 1989, whereas I see Christopher Monckton of Brenchley listing his years of service thusly:

… I gave her advice on science as well as other policy from 1982-1986, two years before the IPCC was founded.

Do you see a 3 (three) year difference?
.

Christoph
June 16, 2010 6:39 pm

“While WUWT has a real, honest to goodness Lord. A Viscount, who takes them to the woodshed!”

You’ll now notice Anthony Watts does not make that claim.

“Christopher Monckton of Brenchley”

I think it’s foolish to argue over a title. It doesn’t matter worth a damn. But if you are going to bring it up, you should be aware that “WUWT” isn’t claiming, or accepting the claim, that Christopher Monckton’s proper title is “Lord”.
I think he’s a hella-smart guy and I couldn’t care less whether the silly (and outright offensive, for that matter, to human liberty — as if someone should be a “Lord” due to their heredity!) British title is, or is not, properly applied to him. But to the degree it matters, the correct answer seems to be “not”.
As a free man, I have no Lord.
An elected and therefore removable Prime Minister, sure.

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:46 pm

Ok, since we’re quoting the Iron Lady, here’s one of my favorites!
“What great cause would have been fought and won under the banner ‘I stand for consensus’?”
How apt.

Steve
June 16, 2010 6:48 pm

THANK YOU for posting this! Keep up the great work!!
Steve
Common Cents
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
ps. Link Exchange???

Douglas DC
June 16, 2010 6:49 pm

Right now it is snowing in the Blue Mtns of NE Oregon and elsewhere in both
Hemispheres. This is not a warming planet but a cooling one….

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:49 pm

And apt for this discussion……..”If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn’t swim.”………M. Thatcher.

June 16, 2010 6:54 pm

James Sexton
Lord M’s claim is that she was “the world’s first climate realist“. Sounds like you’re claiming priority.
*

June 16, 2010 6:55 pm

Christoph,
I was having a little fun. We know there is no one Lording it over us, especially in America [with the glaring exception of the President and his pet Congress & Senate]. But we also know that lots of Americans are infatuated with nobility [Mrs. S watches soap operas, so I know this to be true].
And you’re right, I don’t speak for Anthony Watts; only Anthony speaks for Anthony. But the point has been made here before that we have a real Lord, and the warmist crowd doesn’t, so neener.

H.R.
June 16, 2010 6:57 pm

Mike says:
June 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm
“You people are down right Orwellian. Thatcher said what she said. If you disagree with her fine, but do not pretend she was one you. Get real.” […]
No problem. She’s not one of me. Can’t speak for any others on this blog, though I suspect she’s not one of them, either.

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 6:57 pm

Christoph says:
June 16, 2010 at 6:39 pm
“…..But to the degree it matters, the correct answer seems to be “not”.
“As a free man, I have no Lord.”
Well, I suppose it depends on your perspective. You should try and study a bit of their history and understand where and how the “House of Lords” came to be.
I agree with you later statement. We fought that war a couple of centuries ago. I’ve buried the hatchet. If they wish to continue their traditions, then I say good on them. I can’t help but wonder if you felt the same passion and indignation as your statement implies, when my current president bowed to a foreign monarch.

James Sexton
June 16, 2010 7:02 pm

Should read “your statement”. Sigh, a couple of more beers and I’ll be okay…… Smokey…..that was funny!

trbixler
June 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Derek B says:
June 16, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Have you looked out the window lately? The IPCC ‘scientists’ were but few and the anecdotes presented in AR4 were largely not peer reviewed. 2035 comes to mind but where is the projected heat and where are the oceans rising. Why is the arctic recovering. No projections met other than spending billions of taxpayers dollars. Meanwhile the trainman smiles on his private ‘research’ estate.

Christoph
June 16, 2010 7:11 pm

Fair enough, Smokey.
neener indeed.
And, yes, James Sexton. I did.
Of course, any man has the right to bow to another. But it’s ridiculous that an American President would feel the need.
But he was in Saudi Arabia and all, and I’m sure Barack Obama felt pretty emotional.

Robert
June 16, 2010 7:13 pm

Smokey,
First of all, Lord Monckton did not participate in that debate. So you pretty much have to admit that half of your commentary is essentially refuted. Nice fact-checking by the way, fits well with Monckton himself. Secondly, because one side of a debate is better at theatrics and manipulating the minds of public citizens does not make them any more right… 80% of people could say gravity isn’t true. It doesn’t make it any more true… Lets not let facts get in the way of honest debate right?

Christoph
June 16, 2010 7:15 pm

Anyway, James, I’m objecting to the title “Lord”, not the existence of the body itself, now elected.
Terms of respect are fine with me: Honorable member, “Sir” to the Sgt.-Major, etc. But I do object, in principle, to using any title that hints at another person’s Lordship.
I’m not religious, so I object on enlightenment grounds. But if I were religious, I’m object on grounds that I had only one true Lord.
Et cetera.
Back to the topic of the thread, I really enjoyed the article and I also think it would have benefited with a timeline of sorts. Then one could put Mike’s justified comment about Thatchers’ CO2 speeches in context.
One way … or the other.