On the Credibility of Climate Research, Part II: Towards Rebuilding Trust

Foreword – Below is  a guest post (by request) from Dr. Judith Curry on the issues we deal with every day here. While I and other like minded bloggers were given the opportunity to have some early input into this, little of it was accepted. This I think puts it off to a bad start in light of the title. One of my issues was that it wasn’t necessary to use the word “deniers”, which I think removal of is central to any discourse that includes a goal of “rebuilding trust”. There’s also other more technical issues related to current investigations that are not addressed here.

I had made my concerns known to Dr. Curry before in this post: The Curry letter: a word about “deniers”… which is worth re-reading again.

To be frank, given that she’s still using the term even when pointed out, and had deferred other valid suggestions from other skeptics, I’d given serious consideration to not carrying this at all. But I had carried Dr. Curry’s original post (at my request) on 11/27/09, just seven days after the Climategate story broke here at WUWT on 11/20/09:

An open letter from Dr. Judith Curry on climate science

Since I had carried that one at my request to Dr. Curry, I decided it only fair that I’d carry this one she offered, but with the above caveat. Further, as Andrew Revkin pointed out yesterday, WUWT is now by far the most trafficked climate blog in the world. With that comes a level of responsibility to broadly report the issues. Readers should give their opinion here, pulling no punches, but with one caveat: make the discourse respectful and without labels or inflammatory comments. – Anthony


Judith  Curry

Guest post by Judith Curry, Georgia Institute of Technology

I am trying something new, a blogospheric experiment, if you will.  I have been a fairly active participant in the blogosphere since 2006, and recently posted two essays on climategate, one at climateaudit.org and the other at climateprogress.org.  Both essays were subsequently picked up by other blogs, and the diversity of opinions expressed at the different blogs was quite interesting.  Hence I am distributing this essay to a number of different blogs simultaneously with the hope of demonstrating the collective power of the blogosphere to generate ideas and debate them.  I look forward to a stimulating discussion on this important topic.

Losing the Public’s Trust

Climategate has now become broadened in scope to extend beyond the CRU emails to include glaciergate and a host of other issues associated with the IPCC. In responding to climategate, the climate research establishment has appealed to its own authority and failed to understand that climategate is primarily a crisis of trust.  Finally, we have an editorial published in Science on February 10 from Ralph Cicerone, President of the National Academy of Science, that begins to articulate the trust issue: “This view reflects the fragile nature of trust between science and society, demonstrating that the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists can diminish the credibility of science as a whole. What needs to be done? Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”  While I applaud loudly Dr. Cicerone’s statement, I wish it had been made earlier and had not been isolated from the public by publishing the statement behind paywall at Science. Unfortunately, the void of substantive statements from our institutions has been filled in ways that have made the situation much worse.

Credibility is a combination of expertise and trust.  While scientists persist in thinking that they should be trusted because of their expertise, climategate has made it clear that expertise itself is not a sufficient basis for public trust.  The fallout from climategate is much broader than the allegations of misconduct by scientists at two universities.   Of greatest importance is the reduced credibility of the IPCC assessment reports, which are providing the scientific basis for international policies on climate change.  Recent disclosures about the IPCC have brought up a host of concerns about the IPCC that had been festering in the background: involvement of IPCC scientists in explicit climate policy advocacy; tribalism that excluded skeptics; hubris of scientists with regards to a noble (Nobel) cause; alarmism; and inadequate attention to the statistics of uncertainty and the complexity of alternative interpretations.

The scientists involved in the CRU emails and the IPCC have been defended as scientists with the best of intentions trying to do their work in a very difficult environment.  They blame the alleged hacking incident on the “climate denial machine.”  They are described as fighting a valiant war to keep misinformation from the public that is being pushed by skeptics with links to the oil industry. They are focused on moving the science forward, rather than the janitorial work of record keeping, data archival, etc. They have had to adopt unconventional strategies to fight off what they thought was malicious interference. They defend their science based upon their years of experience and their expertise.

Scientists are claiming that the scientific content of the IPCC reports is not compromised by climategate.  The jury is still out on the specific fallout from climategate in terms of the historical and paleo temperature records.   There are larger concerns (raised by glaciergate, etc.) particularly with regards to the IPCC Assessment Report on Impacts (Working Group II):  has a combination of groupthink, political advocacy and a noble cause syndrome stifled scientific debate, slowed down scientific progress and corrupted the assessment process?  If institutions are doing their jobs, then misconduct by a few individual scientists should be quickly identified, and the impacts of the misconduct should be confined and quickly rectified.  Institutions need to look in the mirror and ask the question as to how they enabled this situation and what opportunities they missed to forestall such substantial loss of public trust in climate research and the major assessment reports.

In their misguided war against the skeptics, the CRU emails reveal that core research values became compromised.   Much has been said about the role of the highly politicized environment in providing an extremely difficult environment in which to conduct science that produces a lot of stress for the scientists.  There is no question that this environment is not conducive to science and scientists need more support from their institutions in dealing with it.  However, there is nothing in this crazy environment that is worth sacrificing your personal or professional integrity.  And when your science receives this kind of attention, it means that the science is really important to the public.  Therefore scientists need to do everything possible to make sure that they effectively communicate uncertainty, risk, probability and complexity, and provide a context that includes alternative and competing scientific viewpoints.  This is an important responsibility that individual scientists and particularly the institutions need to take very seriously.

Both individual scientists and the institutions need to look in the mirror and really understand how this happened.  Climategate isn’t going to go away until these issues are resolved.   Science is ultimately a self-correcting process, but with a major international treaty and far-reaching domestic legislation on the table, the stakes couldn’t be higher.

The Changing Nature of Skepticism about Global Warming

Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed.  In my informal investigations, I have been listening to the perspectives of a broad range of people that have been labeled as “skeptics” or even “deniers”.  I have come to understand that global warming skepticism is very different now than it was five years ago.  Here is my take on how global warming skepticism has evolved over the past several decades.

In the 1980’s, James Hansen and Steven Schneider led the charge in informing the public of the risks of potential anthropogenic climate change.  Sir John Houghton and Bert Bolin played similar roles in Europe.  This charge was embraced by the environmental advocacy groups, and global warming alarmism was born.  During this period I would say that many if not most researchers, including myself, were skeptical that global warming was detectable in the temperature record and that it would have dire consequences.  The traditional foes of the environmental movement worked to counter the alarmism of the environmental movement, but this was mostly a war between advocacy groups and not an issue that had taken hold in the mainstream media and the public consciousness.  In the first few years of the 21st century, the stakes became higher and we saw the birth of what some have called a “monolithic climate denial machine”.  Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry. This was all amplified by talk radio and cable news.

In 2006 and 2007, things changed as a result of Al Gore’s movie “An Inconvenient Truth” plus the IPCC 4th Assessment Report, and global warming became a seemingly unstoppable juggernaut.  The reason that the IPCC 4th Assessment Report was so influential is that people trusted the process the IPCC described:  participation of a thousand scientists from 100 different countries, who worked for several years to produce 3000 pages with thousands of peer reviewed scientific references, with extensive peer review.  Further, the process was undertaken with the participation of policy makers under the watchful eyes of advocacy groups with a broad range of conflicting interests.   As a result of the IPCC influence, scientific skepticism by academic researchers became vastly diminished and it became easier to embellish the IPCC findings rather than to buck the juggernaut.  Big oil funding for contrary views mostly dried up and the mainstream media supported the IPCC consensus. But there was a new movement in the blogosphere, which I refer to as the “climate auditors”, started by Steve McIntyre.  The climate change establishment failed to understand this changing dynamic, and continued to blame skepticism on the denial machine funded by big oil.

Climate Auditors and the Blogosphere

Steve McIntyre started the blog climateaudit.org so that he could defend himself against claims being made at the blog realclimate.org with regards to his critique of the “hockey stick” since he was unable to post his comments there.  Climateaudit has focused on auditing topics related to the paleoclimate reconstructions over the past millennia (in particular the so called “hockey stick”) and also the software being used by climate researchers to fix data problems due to poor quality surface weather stations in the historical climate data record. McIntyre’s “auditing” became very popular not only with the skeptics, but also with the progressive “open source” community, and there are now a number of such blogs.  The blog with the largest public audience is wattsupwiththat.com, led by weatherman Anthony Watts, with over 2 million unique visitors each month.

So who are the climate auditors?  They are technically educated people, mostly outside of academia.  Several individuals have developed substantial expertise in aspects of climate science, although they mainly audit rather than produce original scientific research. They tend to be watchdogs rather than deniers; many of them classify themselves as “lukewarmers”. They are independent of oil industry influence.  They have found a collective voice in the blogosphere and their posts are often picked up by the mainstream media. They are demanding greater accountability and transparency of climate research and assessment reports.

So what motivated their FOIA requests of the CRU at the University of East Anglia?  Last weekend, I was part of a discussion on this issue at the Blackboard.  Among the participants in this discussion was Steven Mosher, who broke the climategate story and has already written a book on it here. They are concerned about inadvertent introduction of bias into the CRU temperature data by having the same people who create the dataset use the dataset in research and in verifying climate models; this concern applies to both NASA GISS and the connection between CRU and the Hadley Centre. This concern is exacerbated by the choice of James Hansen at NASA GISS to become a policy advocate, and his forecasts of forthcoming “warmest years.”  Medical research has long been concerned with the introduction of such bias, which is why they conduct double blind studies when testing the efficacy of a medical treatment. Any such bias could be checked by independent analyses of the data; however, people outside the inner circle were unable to obtain access to the information required to link the raw data to the final analyzed product.  Further, creation of the surface data sets was treated like a research project, with no emphasis on data quality analysis, and there was no independent oversight.  Given the importance of these data sets both to scientific research and public policy, they feel that greater public accountability is required.

So why do the mainstream climate researchers have such a problem with the climate auditors? The scientists involved in the CRU emails seem to regard Steve McIntyre as their arch-nemesis (Roger Pielke Jr’s term). Steve McIntyre’s early critiques of the hockey stick were dismissed and he was characterized as a shill for the oil industry.   Academic/blogospheric guerilla warfare ensued, as the academic researchers tried to prevent access of the climate auditors to publishing in scientific journals and presenting their work at professional conferences, and tried to deny them access to published research data and computer programs. The bloggers countered with highly critical posts in the blogosphere and FOIA requests.  And climategate was the result.

So how did this group of bloggers succeed in bringing the climate establishment to its knees (whether or not the climate establishment realizes yet that this has happened)?  Again, trust plays a big role; it was pretty easy to follow the money trail associated with the “denial machine”.  On the other hand, the climate auditors have no apparent political agenda,

are doing this work for free, and have been playing a watchdog role, which has engendered the trust of a large segment of the population.

Towards Rebuilding Trust

Rebuilding trust with the public on the subject of climate research starts with Ralph Cicerone’s statement “Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”   Much has been written about the need for greater transparency, reforms to peer review, etc. and I am hopeful that the relevant institutions will respond appropriately.  Investigations of misconduct are being conducted at the University of East Anglia and at Penn State.  Here I would like to bring up some broader issues that will require substantial reflection by the institutions and also by individual scientists.

Climate research and its institutions have not yet adapted to its high policy relevance.  How scientists can most effectively and appropriately engage with the policy process is a topic that has not been adequately discussed (e.g. the “honest broker” challenge discussed by Roger Pielke Jr), and climate researchers are poorly informed in this regard.  The result has been reflexive support for the UNFCCC policy agenda (e.g. carbon cap and trade) by many climate researchers that are involved in the public debate (particularly those involved in the IPCC), which they believe follows logically from the findings of the (allegedly policy neutral) IPCC. The often misinformed policy advocacy by this group of climate scientists has played a role in the political polarization of this issue.. The interface between science and policy is a muddy issue, but it is very important that scientists have guidance in navigating the potential pitfalls.  Improving this situation could help defuse the hostile environment that scientists involved in the public debate have to deal with, and would also help restore the public trust of climate scientists.

The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America” by Chris Mooney.  Efforts are made to “dumb down” the message and to frame the message to respond to issues that are salient to the audience.   People have heard the alarm, but they remain unconvinced because of a perceived political agenda and lack of trust of the message and the messengers. At the same time, there is a large group of educated and evidence driven people (e.g. the libertarians, people that read the technical skeptic blogs, not to mention policy makers) who want to understand the risk and uncertainties associated with climate change, without being told what kinds of policies they should be supporting. More effective communication strategies can be devised by recognizing that there are two groups with different levels of base knowledge about the topic.  But building trust through public communication on this topic requires that uncertainty be acknowledged.  My own experience in making public presentations about climate change has found that discussing the uncertainties increases the public trust in what scientists are trying to convey and doesn’t detract from the receptivity to understanding climate change risks (they distrust alarmism). Trust can also be rebuilt by  discussing broad choices rather than focusing on specific policies.

And finally, the blogosphere can be a very powerful tool for increasing the credibility of climate research.  “Dueling blogs”  (e.g. climateprogress.org versus wattsupwiththat.com and realclimate.org versus climateaudit.org) can actually enhance public trust in the science as they see both sides of the arguments being discussed.  Debating science with skeptics should be the spice of academic life, but many climate researchers lost this somehow by mistakenly thinking that skeptical arguments would diminish the public trust in the message coming from the climate research establishment.   Such debate is alive and well in the blogosphere, but few mainstream climate researchers participate in the blogospheric debate.  The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers in this, and other academic climate researchers hosting blogs include Roy Spencer, Roger Pielke Sr and Jr, Richard Rood, and Andrew Dessler. The blogs that are most effective are those that allow comments from both sides of the debate (many blogs are heavily moderated).  While the blogosphere has a “wild west” aspect to it, I have certainly learned a lot by participating in the blogospheric debate including how to sharpen my thinking and improve the rhetoric of my arguments. Additional scientific voices entering the public debate particularly in the blogosphere would help in the broader communication efforts and in rebuilding trust. And we need to acknowledge the emerging auditing and open source movements in the in the internet-enabled world, and put them to productive use.  The openness and democratization of knowledge enabled by the internet can be a tremendous tool for building public understanding of climate science and also trust in climate research.

No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.”  Scientists and others that say this seem to want to advance a particular agenda.  There is nothing more detrimental to public trust than such statements.

And finally, I hope that this blogospheric experiment will demonstrate how the diversity of the different blogs can be used collectively to generate ideas and debate them, towards bringing some sanity to this whole situation surrounding the politicization of climate science and rebuilding trust with the public.

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Doug S
February 24, 2010 6:35 pm

Dr. Curry, I think you did a good job in reconstructing the time line of political and scientific consensus coming together to ignite the warming craze. I believe the nut jobs in the progressive political movement latched onto the CO2 warming theory, recognizing that it could be used to further their goals and the climate scientists unwittingly, in some cases, took them on as allies. Once this partnership became apparent to all of us “stupid ordinary taxpaying citizens, the dummies that pay for the data collection” it was only a matter of time before popular opinion turned against the elite scientists and progressives. I don’t think enough credit is given to the average potato farmer with a solid eight grade education; he may not be college educated but he can recognize a con game when he see one.

aMINO aCIDS iN mETEORITES
February 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Willis Eschenbach (18:06:56) :
Sounds good, give me a day or two. It’s an important issue.
Take your time. As Miracle Max in The Princess Bride said: “Don’t rush me, sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.”

Allan M
February 24, 2010 6:47 pm

I wonder if there is anyone there really listening to us?

DJ Meredith
February 24, 2010 6:50 pm

From a Nature paper
“There is a robust signal behind the shift to more intense hurricanes,” says Judith Curry, chair of the school of earth and atmospheric sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology
“There is no conclusive evidence that any observed changes in tropical cyclone genesis, tracks, duration and surge flooding exceed the variability expected from natural causes.” says a team of researchers under the auspices of the World Meteorological Organization has published a new review paper in Nature Geoscience (PDF) updating consensus perspectives published in 1998 and 2006. The author team includes prominent scientists from either side of the “hurricane wars” of 2005-2006: Thomas R. Knutson, John L. McBride, Johnny Chan, Kerry Emanuel, Greg Holland, Chris Landsea, Isaac Held, James P. Kossin, A. K. Srivastava and Masato Sugi.
“……Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed….”
–Judith Curry
Well, Dr. Judith, I think you’ve answered your own question, haven’t you? And you call me a denier??
Contradictory science results in skepticism.

George Turner
February 24, 2010 6:52 pm

It strikes me that she perceives the problem of regaining credibility, as if the mob at the gate has grown distrustful of the leisured and honorable gentlemen who dabble in science and who wouldn’t dare question one another’s integrity.
In the harsher world of modern (19th century and later) technical reality, if you’re getting on a Boeing and the flight crew reek of whisky, they don’t get a do-over. They don’t get to work to regain your trust. They’re given an opportunity to seek employment in a non-aviation area of endeavour.
The public really doesn’t have the time or inclination to indulge the Victorian fantasies of meganomaniacal louts who can’t manage to read a thermometer correctly.

davidmhoffer
February 24, 2010 7:02 pm

You want public trust? I can tell you how to get it. Put this mess back into the private sector.
1) G8 puts up a $10 Billion prize for the best climate model.
2) G8 makes all data collected by publicly funded institutions public by law with criminal penalties for withholding
3) Deadline for submissions is 18 months from now
4) Contest is open to anyone, but all submissions become public domain
5) Prize money is awarded ONLY on accuracy of results, NO other criteria
6) $2.5 Billion awarded after 5 years split between the top 5 models
7) $2.5 Billion awarded every two years after that to the top 5 models
8) New models can be submitted at anytime, but cannot earn prize money until they have forecasted a minimum of 5 years.
9) Anyone can propose an enhancement to an existing model. If, after 5 years of forecasting, the enhancement proves to provide increased accuracy, 5% share of that model’s prize. Limit to one enhancement per model.
You know what you would get for your $10 Billion? In 6.5 years you would have about 15 seriously good models and one or two smokin’ models. Companies would invest 10 times that trying to be in the top 5. Las Vegas would set up a betting pool. EVERYONE would trust the models because the ONLY measurement is ACCURACY and the ONLY pay off is MONEY. Not power, not prestige, not vested interests, just MONEY. And EVERYONE will own it.
I will make two predictions if the G8 comes to their senses and goes the private enterprise route:
1) It will NOT be a major corporation that wins. It will be a bunch of really bright people who formed a team bereft of corporate or political baggage and beauracracy.
2) The winning team will have several sceptics from WUWT on it.
Can’t help it… I just gott throw in one more:
3) No one from the current Alarmware, PNS, or AGW crowd will be on any of the top 15 teams. They might not even get jobs. Private companies don’t pay for alarmware, just results.

Henry chance
February 24, 2010 7:04 pm

I do not trust Judith.
Steve McIntyre functions as an auditor. an inspector. We have food sagety inspections. We have cars and planes inspected. Is it shocking when some one has fear of an audit? Fear of having math formulas and data reviewed?
Today we have bank inspectors. state bank boards, comptrollers of
currencies and CPA’s audit our banks. we still have bank failures. You plan on getting fired on the spot if you don’t release records to a bank auditor. I can name a person that embezzled enough from a bank to get the bank closed.
We have hospital inspectors. They audit records, look for prescription discrepancies and all kinds of issues from record keeping to housekeeping.
I suspect a Prof that is working for the people and paid by taxpayers is dangerous if they claim to be above scrutiny. When an internal control questionaire is filled out, an auditor can determione what types of fraud to look for.
McIntyre was dreaded for a reason. He wanted info that raised a red flag. The refusal to cooperate with the FOIA request was a massive red flag. There have been many whistle blowers that have released secrets because insiders knew misconduct was taking place. Records were hidden and review was interfered with.
I don’t trust Judith.
she claims to be a reveiwer for the IPCC and has never externally raised questions and concerns about many of the shady reports in AR4.
Yes is is sleazy to accuse people you do not like to be connected with and interdependent with big oil. It doesn’t bother me. Big Oil takes big risks. They have done their own weather reports before you came along Judith. Before you finished school. They had to develop storm reports off shore gulf, shut down equipment which takes many hours, lock things up and evacuate hundreds of men facing a dangerous hurricane. Pumps shut down. Valves closed and equipment stopped. When the hurricane comes, the helicopters evacuate. Judith you have no clue. It takes scores of millions to decide, shut down and reactivate dozens of offshiore rigs.
\
I don’t trust a prof that sits in an armchair oblivious to the real world and writes scary stories about climate alarmism. Enginners spend millions making equipment durable to survive tidal waves, hurricanes and not blow up in fire.
I am sure glad big oil companies do not need to trust and rely on climate pretend “scientists” in the city with an agenda.
I can picture mann, Judith, Romm and other hostile folks applaud when a rig catastrophe takes place.
http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/o-ranger.htm
84 dead on this Odeco rig. I met with Mobil before the Incident and met the safety engineer that wrote safety requirements for this rig a couple years after the event.
Oil companies are not stupid. They are aware of weather, wave and wind action and have a lot of research of their own to forecast and protect people and assets.
It may pay for a few of these arm chair climate advocates to check to see what oil companies have done for decades internally with weather science.
I do not trust Judith. Broad brush generalizations regarding Oil or Big Oil show a shallow mind. I remeber when Amoco for example in one of their research units developed artificial intelligence software. They have massive research budgets. They spend millions on reasearch of offshore acreage before they bid billions of dollars. all in the name of minimizing risks.
A lot of patents, discoveries and inventions come from Big earl.
I ove auditors. whether is is Federal or public auditors that review the retirement pension funds for my employees or audit various companiews i have owned over the years for financial statements. I pick the brains of auditors to discover improvements for best business practices.
I know why people with discrepencies wanted to have McIntyre go away.

Pete H
February 24, 2010 7:05 pm

“The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic”.
Judith, I was interested in your essay until I hit that line! It is not complex and we “the public” are not as stupid, as is arrogantly pointed out, in the above statement. As for the “Policy Makers”, well, we all have the same low opinion of those that seek to tax us for no good reason!
The crux has always been the involvement of Co2 as a driving GHG. No sensible poster on here or other sceptic blog has denied climate change.
“The Public” has also seen the use of the environmentalist movement by he IPCC and vice versa. No trust there for sure
As for “Building Trust”? A wholesale clear-out of ALL involved in the emails would be a start but certainly not the Met Office’s recently announced “Do Over” whilst still headed by the Ex WWF Chairman (UK) !

E O'Connor
February 24, 2010 7:09 pm

Thank you Willis for doing your williwaw thing.

R. de Haan
February 24, 2010 7:17 pm

Fifteen years without Global Warming does not mean there is no Global Warming!
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/61804
What’s the use of any debate if our officials consequently navigate around the facts and stick to their agenda?
I repeat my former conclusion: The horse called AGW is dead!
Stop the CPR and bury it.

RockyRoad
February 24, 2010 7:17 pm

Willis Eschenbach (13:50:31) :
(…)
Once that is done, the rest will fall in line. And until then, I’m overjoyed that people don’t trust you. I see the lack of trust in mainstream climate science as a huge triumph for real science. Fix it by doing good science and by cleaning up your own backyard. Anything else is a coverup.
———————–
Reply:
Excellent expose`, Willis. But after reading about every comment posted and giving this some serious thought, I’ve come to the unrelenting conclusion that they cannot simply “Fix it by doing good science” as you suggest. The reason is that they’ve known for a long, long time their theory was broken. And that leaves them all culpable. Culpable and liable for law suit after law suit after law suit.
The horrors these politicized climate scientists and climatized politicians have promised for everybody else will be their own fate. I can’t imagine what some of them must be thinking right now with the inescapable prospects of broken careers, broken families, and broken lives.

February 24, 2010 7:19 pm

Anthony,
Dr Curry is not *using* the term “deniers;” she is only mentioning it, as a term used by others, and usually places it in quotes. Her comments show that she considers it an inaccurate and unhelpful term.

February 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Why on earth is it a good thing to restore trust in untrustworthy people and organisations? I’m not buying into any plans to restore trust in Enron or Lehman Brothers, nor am I interested in Judith Curry’s empty and lengthy account of how she and her AGW cronies are right even when they’re wrong.
“Climate research and its institutions have not yet adapted to its high policy relevance. How scientists can most effectively and appropriately engage with the policy process is a topic that has not been adequately discussed…”
For all its conciliatory tone, her matronising essay is nothing more than a plea for better spin – written in fluent Spinish.

jcspe
February 24, 2010 7:22 pm

Dr. Curry, your delusions about “big oil” and “the climate denial machine” taint the rest of what you write. It makes people like me speculate: 1) that you are psychologically projecting your own willingness to lie or exaggerate if needed to get money, or 2) that you personally are paranoid about “big oil,” or you believe a large portion of your intended audience is paranoid about “big oil,” or 3) that you are throwing in those off-the-point comments because you actually intend to insult a certain group of people that probably includes me.
So, please drop the “big oil” bilge. It truly adds nothing to your discussion.

sky
February 24, 2010 7:27 pm

What Judith Curry repeatedly fails to get with her condescending sociological analyses is that science is not a social activity, in which only academics are fit to participate. It is a quest to comprehend the workings of nature in a disciplined framework. What mature, field-going scientists principally object to is the lack of customary scientific rigor and philosophical circumspection in the work of the melange of academics who call themselves “climate scientists.” If scientific discipline had not been sacrificed to sophomoric, publicity-conscious hubris and the requisite hard evidence had been actually produced, instead of prematurely claimed, there would be no intelligent “denialists.” Science–not sociology–is the real issue!

February 24, 2010 7:36 pm

Jeff (07:28:30) Brought up an important issue in this debate about Dr. Curry’s intentions: the definitions of the terms we use. This is to a considerable extent a question of semantics. I recommend the commenters look into it. Long ago I became aware of this subject by reading a book called “The Tyranny of Words”. It concerns the various ideas about the meaning of a given word, depending on the background of the author, and the problematic use of abstract terms that have no basis in physical reality. We have above much discussion of the word “denier” for example. I think many don’t like it because we think it puts us in the same class kooks as the President of Iran, who denies that the Holocaust ever occurred. But as far as I am concerned, I am proud to describe myself as a denier of AGW . I refuse to be intimidated by a mere word (unless it is “STOP” , screamed by my passenger as I am about to enter a busy intersection.)

David
February 24, 2010 7:41 pm

I appreciate Prof. Curry’s effort, but I think the damage done to the warmist agenda is permanent. I’m not referring to the sloppy science and dishonest behavior, of which there has been plenty, but to the nature of the whole enterprise. The conclusion that I’ve reached, which I think is shared by a lot of other technically educated people, is that climatology is a lot like macroeconomics – too many interacting variables, too much emergent behavior, too many difficulties in measurement to make precise predictions about much of anything. From this point on I will regard the opinions of climatologists as simply that, opinions, just like those of economists. Interesting, and something to consider, but nothing that can be relied upon.

February 24, 2010 7:43 pm

In the first few years of the 21st century, the stakes became higher and we saw the birth of what some have called a “monolithic climate denial machine”. Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry.

How much? I have identified a self-proclaimed billion dollars from Australian mining alone going to further the AGW hoax; see http://peacelegacy.org/articles/climate-change-follow-money-trail

hotrod ( Larry L )
February 24, 2010 7:43 pm

Interesting 483 responses so far, in 12 hours. It took me several hours to read through the posts to this point.
I think by now it is obvious that many here who advocate for quality science, were first tipped off that something wrong by a gut sensation that a con job was in progress. Like the used car salesman that says you must sign now, or the “limited time offer” on a late night TV show, we all have developed a good 6th sense that when someone is pushing too hard for you to act a certain way, something is wrong.
Upon examination, of the evidence we discovered not one error or slight exaggeration but a continuing pattern of behavior that repeated over and over and over again. Like the kid you knew in school that was incapable of telling the truth, you begin to see simple tell tails like overly precise qualification of arguments and began to pay attention not so much to what was said but to what was not said. Then following that hint turned over a few rocks and invariably there was some foul smelling sludge carefully hidden away in the hopes it would not be noticed.
After steady pattern of this you reach a point where the hard core AGW advocate is viewed with the same wariness as the street tough leaning against the building. You know from experience he mugs people, and you give him a wide birth, and never take your eye off him.
This loss of trust is a self inflicted wound.
H.L. Mencken
“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”

Samuel Adams
“..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds…”

Abraham Lincoln:
If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

The problem is not that we do not understand what you are selling!
It is that we have learned that you are selling spoiled goods, and know it.
Larry

J.Peden
February 24, 2010 7:44 pm

MinB (10:05:57) :
On reflection, I think Anthony’s initial reaction to deny Curry’s post was correct.
I have to disagree, because 1] Dr. Curry seems to have been chosen as a spokesperson by the AGW Climate Science “tribe”, and apparently in particular to try to deflect or spin the scientific/rational onslaught concerning the tribe’s idea of what “science” is; and 2] I am very much interested to see what her actual tactical moves are to this end in order to see what we’ll be up against in terms of AGW propaganda, of course as opposed to simply conceding the case against AGW Climate Science, which is what Dr. Curry, et al., should do and what I keep hoping she and they will do.
In other words, “Know thy Enemy” and give them a very fair chance to surrender by trying to convince them of their errors and that a real Scientific and rational examination of the issues is the best way to both serve Humanity and lead one’s own life, if those things are indeed what they really want to do with their respective existences.

February 24, 2010 8:03 pm

Sorry Judith Curry, but the message between the lines that came across to me was “These naive and starry-eyed climate researchers just weren’t prepared for all the real-world rough and tumble that happened when the impact of their message became public.” Sorry, I don’t buy it. They started with a political agenda and an ideology in which man=bad, nature=good, and in which, logically, indictments against man had to be found come what may. They started with a program to suppress divergent views and stifle debate. They claimed, not their critics, that “The debate is over” – and yet the critics have by far the preponderance of evidence that their understanding is much closer to the truth. And you are assuming the truth of the alarmist claims and yet offering not one scintilla of real evidence – for the simple reason, of course, that it doesn’t exist. On the other hand, proof that the climate models don’t work is dead simple. And you say realclimate participated – even led – the “DEBATE”??!! Try posting skeptical material there; you yourself admit Steve McIntyre couldn’t do so. So stop granting credibility to an advocacy site. Sorry, you need to do a whole lot more in changing your own thinking if you want to be part of any kind of reconciliation.

geo
February 24, 2010 8:07 pm

@J.Peden (19:44:46) :
I’m convinced you’re wrong on “chosen spokesperson”, and on multiple levels.
Michael Mann, when he reads Dr. Curry’s post, is going to grind his teeth. Ben Santer may threaten in “private” email to do violence to her.
Get off the “monolthic” meme, people (those of you who are on it, as clearly you aren’t all). It’s right there with the “Truthers” and those who think Bush, Jr. was behind 9/11.
Dr. Curry may be wrong in points, maybe even seriously. . .but to think “the cabal” sent her out to do it is just nutty. This is the Internet after all (vive la Internet!), so I suppose some of that cannot be avoided from a vox populi pov, but you do not do “our” pov any good with it.

paullm
February 24, 2010 8:08 pm

Amazing. I am continually shocked (which has become numbing) by the seeming naivete of supposedly educated individuals such as Dr. Curry and others of the AGW ilk. Has she even been awake over the last few decades? Climategate has been building for that long and there has been no secret about it – only that those enlightened to the extreme positions of the “environmentalist” kidnapping world-controller adherents were bullied out of being able to publicly criticize the exploitations except for the feisty likes of Marc Morano or a few position secured academic and/or professional experts.
The climate debate has never been limited to science but is a derivative of socio-political engineering (power and money- Gore is only the obvious). Were the climate debate only about science! In fact, if it were only about science more of the greatly de-emphsized climate debate probably would have taken place in the journals, etc.
All Curry was missing were the cuddly polar bear cubs on icebergs and Bill Nye’s CO2 dirty colored columns. Honest debates? Please. There’s no denying it. This recently acknowledged climate debate is only a proxy stage for the real high stakes showdown between dueling socio-economic philosophies.
Does Curry simply not understand this, is she faking it or is she ignoring the climate/political connection? In any case she has contributed little to any resolution, or even enlightenment of the climate change matter as she doesn’t address the context of it.
“Pure” science has no chance to achieve clean hands here even after any possible Climategate purgings. There will continue to be great opportunities long term for blog debating about climate change and other substitute arenas for the war between variations of individualism and collectivism. Keep those engines running the road will be long!

TerryMN
February 24, 2010 8:13 pm

Excellent response, Willis, thank you.

Joe
February 24, 2010 8:15 pm

Dr. Curry,
Climate science has not investigated deep enough into how this planet actually works. Just to say that a few gases can heat our planet like a greenhouse is absurd in the premise that a greenhouse does not move or generate weather events.
Theories abound with little proof. Religion has created many blockages of knowledge as they are terrified that faith may found to be mistaken.
One thing about understanding the mechanics of this planet is it does generate factual proof that anyone can reproduce.
Some actual physical changes that our planet has gone through in the last 50 years cannot be reproduced but the results of the effects are measurable.
The peer review system is hord at best and should be totally revised with different areas of qualified knowlable people in different fields. As scientists are not mechanics and most not mathematisions to peer review an item outside their fields of expertise.

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