On the Credibility of Climate Research, Part II: Towards Rebuilding Trust

Foreword – Below is  a guest post (by request) from Dr. Judith Curry on the issues we deal with every day here. While I and other like minded bloggers were given the opportunity to have some early input into this, little of it was accepted. This I think puts it off to a bad start in light of the title. One of my issues was that it wasn’t necessary to use the word “deniers”, which I think removal of is central to any discourse that includes a goal of “rebuilding trust”. There’s also other more technical issues related to current investigations that are not addressed here.

I had made my concerns known to Dr. Curry before in this post: The Curry letter: a word about “deniers”… which is worth re-reading again.

To be frank, given that she’s still using the term even when pointed out, and had deferred other valid suggestions from other skeptics, I’d given serious consideration to not carrying this at all. But I had carried Dr. Curry’s original post (at my request) on 11/27/09, just seven days after the Climategate story broke here at WUWT on 11/20/09:

An open letter from Dr. Judith Curry on climate science

Since I had carried that one at my request to Dr. Curry, I decided it only fair that I’d carry this one she offered, but with the above caveat. Further, as Andrew Revkin pointed out yesterday, WUWT is now by far the most trafficked climate blog in the world. With that comes a level of responsibility to broadly report the issues. Readers should give their opinion here, pulling no punches, but with one caveat: make the discourse respectful and without labels or inflammatory comments. – Anthony


Judith  Curry

Guest post by Judith Curry, Georgia Institute of Technology

I am trying something new, a blogospheric experiment, if you will.  I have been a fairly active participant in the blogosphere since 2006, and recently posted two essays on climategate, one at climateaudit.org and the other at climateprogress.org.  Both essays were subsequently picked up by other blogs, and the diversity of opinions expressed at the different blogs was quite interesting.  Hence I am distributing this essay to a number of different blogs simultaneously with the hope of demonstrating the collective power of the blogosphere to generate ideas and debate them.  I look forward to a stimulating discussion on this important topic.

Losing the Public’s Trust

Climategate has now become broadened in scope to extend beyond the CRU emails to include glaciergate and a host of other issues associated with the IPCC. In responding to climategate, the climate research establishment has appealed to its own authority and failed to understand that climategate is primarily a crisis of trust.  Finally, we have an editorial published in Science on February 10 from Ralph Cicerone, President of the National Academy of Science, that begins to articulate the trust issue: “This view reflects the fragile nature of trust between science and society, demonstrating that the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists can diminish the credibility of science as a whole. What needs to be done? Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”  While I applaud loudly Dr. Cicerone’s statement, I wish it had been made earlier and had not been isolated from the public by publishing the statement behind paywall at Science. Unfortunately, the void of substantive statements from our institutions has been filled in ways that have made the situation much worse.

Credibility is a combination of expertise and trust.  While scientists persist in thinking that they should be trusted because of their expertise, climategate has made it clear that expertise itself is not a sufficient basis for public trust.  The fallout from climategate is much broader than the allegations of misconduct by scientists at two universities.   Of greatest importance is the reduced credibility of the IPCC assessment reports, which are providing the scientific basis for international policies on climate change.  Recent disclosures about the IPCC have brought up a host of concerns about the IPCC that had been festering in the background: involvement of IPCC scientists in explicit climate policy advocacy; tribalism that excluded skeptics; hubris of scientists with regards to a noble (Nobel) cause; alarmism; and inadequate attention to the statistics of uncertainty and the complexity of alternative interpretations.

The scientists involved in the CRU emails and the IPCC have been defended as scientists with the best of intentions trying to do their work in a very difficult environment.  They blame the alleged hacking incident on the “climate denial machine.”  They are described as fighting a valiant war to keep misinformation from the public that is being pushed by skeptics with links to the oil industry. They are focused on moving the science forward, rather than the janitorial work of record keeping, data archival, etc. They have had to adopt unconventional strategies to fight off what they thought was malicious interference. They defend their science based upon their years of experience and their expertise.

Scientists are claiming that the scientific content of the IPCC reports is not compromised by climategate.  The jury is still out on the specific fallout from climategate in terms of the historical and paleo temperature records.   There are larger concerns (raised by glaciergate, etc.) particularly with regards to the IPCC Assessment Report on Impacts (Working Group II):  has a combination of groupthink, political advocacy and a noble cause syndrome stifled scientific debate, slowed down scientific progress and corrupted the assessment process?  If institutions are doing their jobs, then misconduct by a few individual scientists should be quickly identified, and the impacts of the misconduct should be confined and quickly rectified.  Institutions need to look in the mirror and ask the question as to how they enabled this situation and what opportunities they missed to forestall such substantial loss of public trust in climate research and the major assessment reports.

In their misguided war against the skeptics, the CRU emails reveal that core research values became compromised.   Much has been said about the role of the highly politicized environment in providing an extremely difficult environment in which to conduct science that produces a lot of stress for the scientists.  There is no question that this environment is not conducive to science and scientists need more support from their institutions in dealing with it.  However, there is nothing in this crazy environment that is worth sacrificing your personal or professional integrity.  And when your science receives this kind of attention, it means that the science is really important to the public.  Therefore scientists need to do everything possible to make sure that they effectively communicate uncertainty, risk, probability and complexity, and provide a context that includes alternative and competing scientific viewpoints.  This is an important responsibility that individual scientists and particularly the institutions need to take very seriously.

Both individual scientists and the institutions need to look in the mirror and really understand how this happened.  Climategate isn’t going to go away until these issues are resolved.   Science is ultimately a self-correcting process, but with a major international treaty and far-reaching domestic legislation on the table, the stakes couldn’t be higher.

The Changing Nature of Skepticism about Global Warming

Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed.  In my informal investigations, I have been listening to the perspectives of a broad range of people that have been labeled as “skeptics” or even “deniers”.  I have come to understand that global warming skepticism is very different now than it was five years ago.  Here is my take on how global warming skepticism has evolved over the past several decades.

In the 1980’s, James Hansen and Steven Schneider led the charge in informing the public of the risks of potential anthropogenic climate change.  Sir John Houghton and Bert Bolin played similar roles in Europe.  This charge was embraced by the environmental advocacy groups, and global warming alarmism was born.  During this period I would say that many if not most researchers, including myself, were skeptical that global warming was detectable in the temperature record and that it would have dire consequences.  The traditional foes of the environmental movement worked to counter the alarmism of the environmental movement, but this was mostly a war between advocacy groups and not an issue that had taken hold in the mainstream media and the public consciousness.  In the first few years of the 21st century, the stakes became higher and we saw the birth of what some have called a “monolithic climate denial machine”.  Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry. This was all amplified by talk radio and cable news.

In 2006 and 2007, things changed as a result of Al Gore’s movie “An Inconvenient Truth” plus the IPCC 4th Assessment Report, and global warming became a seemingly unstoppable juggernaut.  The reason that the IPCC 4th Assessment Report was so influential is that people trusted the process the IPCC described:  participation of a thousand scientists from 100 different countries, who worked for several years to produce 3000 pages with thousands of peer reviewed scientific references, with extensive peer review.  Further, the process was undertaken with the participation of policy makers under the watchful eyes of advocacy groups with a broad range of conflicting interests.   As a result of the IPCC influence, scientific skepticism by academic researchers became vastly diminished and it became easier to embellish the IPCC findings rather than to buck the juggernaut.  Big oil funding for contrary views mostly dried up and the mainstream media supported the IPCC consensus. But there was a new movement in the blogosphere, which I refer to as the “climate auditors”, started by Steve McIntyre.  The climate change establishment failed to understand this changing dynamic, and continued to blame skepticism on the denial machine funded by big oil.

Climate Auditors and the Blogosphere

Steve McIntyre started the blog climateaudit.org so that he could defend himself against claims being made at the blog realclimate.org with regards to his critique of the “hockey stick” since he was unable to post his comments there.  Climateaudit has focused on auditing topics related to the paleoclimate reconstructions over the past millennia (in particular the so called “hockey stick”) and also the software being used by climate researchers to fix data problems due to poor quality surface weather stations in the historical climate data record. McIntyre’s “auditing” became very popular not only with the skeptics, but also with the progressive “open source” community, and there are now a number of such blogs.  The blog with the largest public audience is wattsupwiththat.com, led by weatherman Anthony Watts, with over 2 million unique visitors each month.

So who are the climate auditors?  They are technically educated people, mostly outside of academia.  Several individuals have developed substantial expertise in aspects of climate science, although they mainly audit rather than produce original scientific research. They tend to be watchdogs rather than deniers; many of them classify themselves as “lukewarmers”. They are independent of oil industry influence.  They have found a collective voice in the blogosphere and their posts are often picked up by the mainstream media. They are demanding greater accountability and transparency of climate research and assessment reports.

So what motivated their FOIA requests of the CRU at the University of East Anglia?  Last weekend, I was part of a discussion on this issue at the Blackboard.  Among the participants in this discussion was Steven Mosher, who broke the climategate story and has already written a book on it here. They are concerned about inadvertent introduction of bias into the CRU temperature data by having the same people who create the dataset use the dataset in research and in verifying climate models; this concern applies to both NASA GISS and the connection between CRU and the Hadley Centre. This concern is exacerbated by the choice of James Hansen at NASA GISS to become a policy advocate, and his forecasts of forthcoming “warmest years.”  Medical research has long been concerned with the introduction of such bias, which is why they conduct double blind studies when testing the efficacy of a medical treatment. Any such bias could be checked by independent analyses of the data; however, people outside the inner circle were unable to obtain access to the information required to link the raw data to the final analyzed product.  Further, creation of the surface data sets was treated like a research project, with no emphasis on data quality analysis, and there was no independent oversight.  Given the importance of these data sets both to scientific research and public policy, they feel that greater public accountability is required.

So why do the mainstream climate researchers have such a problem with the climate auditors? The scientists involved in the CRU emails seem to regard Steve McIntyre as their arch-nemesis (Roger Pielke Jr’s term). Steve McIntyre’s early critiques of the hockey stick were dismissed and he was characterized as a shill for the oil industry.   Academic/blogospheric guerilla warfare ensued, as the academic researchers tried to prevent access of the climate auditors to publishing in scientific journals and presenting their work at professional conferences, and tried to deny them access to published research data and computer programs. The bloggers countered with highly critical posts in the blogosphere and FOIA requests.  And climategate was the result.

So how did this group of bloggers succeed in bringing the climate establishment to its knees (whether or not the climate establishment realizes yet that this has happened)?  Again, trust plays a big role; it was pretty easy to follow the money trail associated with the “denial machine”.  On the other hand, the climate auditors have no apparent political agenda,

are doing this work for free, and have been playing a watchdog role, which has engendered the trust of a large segment of the population.

Towards Rebuilding Trust

Rebuilding trust with the public on the subject of climate research starts with Ralph Cicerone’s statement “Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”   Much has been written about the need for greater transparency, reforms to peer review, etc. and I am hopeful that the relevant institutions will respond appropriately.  Investigations of misconduct are being conducted at the University of East Anglia and at Penn State.  Here I would like to bring up some broader issues that will require substantial reflection by the institutions and also by individual scientists.

Climate research and its institutions have not yet adapted to its high policy relevance.  How scientists can most effectively and appropriately engage with the policy process is a topic that has not been adequately discussed (e.g. the “honest broker” challenge discussed by Roger Pielke Jr), and climate researchers are poorly informed in this regard.  The result has been reflexive support for the UNFCCC policy agenda (e.g. carbon cap and trade) by many climate researchers that are involved in the public debate (particularly those involved in the IPCC), which they believe follows logically from the findings of the (allegedly policy neutral) IPCC. The often misinformed policy advocacy by this group of climate scientists has played a role in the political polarization of this issue.. The interface between science and policy is a muddy issue, but it is very important that scientists have guidance in navigating the potential pitfalls.  Improving this situation could help defuse the hostile environment that scientists involved in the public debate have to deal with, and would also help restore the public trust of climate scientists.

The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America” by Chris Mooney.  Efforts are made to “dumb down” the message and to frame the message to respond to issues that are salient to the audience.   People have heard the alarm, but they remain unconvinced because of a perceived political agenda and lack of trust of the message and the messengers. At the same time, there is a large group of educated and evidence driven people (e.g. the libertarians, people that read the technical skeptic blogs, not to mention policy makers) who want to understand the risk and uncertainties associated with climate change, without being told what kinds of policies they should be supporting. More effective communication strategies can be devised by recognizing that there are two groups with different levels of base knowledge about the topic.  But building trust through public communication on this topic requires that uncertainty be acknowledged.  My own experience in making public presentations about climate change has found that discussing the uncertainties increases the public trust in what scientists are trying to convey and doesn’t detract from the receptivity to understanding climate change risks (they distrust alarmism). Trust can also be rebuilt by  discussing broad choices rather than focusing on specific policies.

And finally, the blogosphere can be a very powerful tool for increasing the credibility of climate research.  “Dueling blogs”  (e.g. climateprogress.org versus wattsupwiththat.com and realclimate.org versus climateaudit.org) can actually enhance public trust in the science as they see both sides of the arguments being discussed.  Debating science with skeptics should be the spice of academic life, but many climate researchers lost this somehow by mistakenly thinking that skeptical arguments would diminish the public trust in the message coming from the climate research establishment.   Such debate is alive and well in the blogosphere, but few mainstream climate researchers participate in the blogospheric debate.  The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers in this, and other academic climate researchers hosting blogs include Roy Spencer, Roger Pielke Sr and Jr, Richard Rood, and Andrew Dessler. The blogs that are most effective are those that allow comments from both sides of the debate (many blogs are heavily moderated).  While the blogosphere has a “wild west” aspect to it, I have certainly learned a lot by participating in the blogospheric debate including how to sharpen my thinking and improve the rhetoric of my arguments. Additional scientific voices entering the public debate particularly in the blogosphere would help in the broader communication efforts and in rebuilding trust. And we need to acknowledge the emerging auditing and open source movements in the in the internet-enabled world, and put them to productive use.  The openness and democratization of knowledge enabled by the internet can be a tremendous tool for building public understanding of climate science and also trust in climate research.

No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.”  Scientists and others that say this seem to want to advance a particular agenda.  There is nothing more detrimental to public trust than such statements.

And finally, I hope that this blogospheric experiment will demonstrate how the diversity of the different blogs can be used collectively to generate ideas and debate them, towards bringing some sanity to this whole situation surrounding the politicization of climate science and rebuilding trust with the public.

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Henry chance
February 24, 2010 2:26 pm

Liz (13:59:35) :
I agree with Dave L. (8:16) concerning the comment on the “janitorial work” of record keeping. Keeping accurate records is essential for any work to be accepted, whether it is climate studies, drug studies or accounting, which is my line of work.

And if you are an accountant, CPA’s perform independent audits. They have internal control questionaires. Judith doesn’t understand the violation of FOIA requests done to a CPA would have caused them to fire the client.
If the standards in accounting were sloppy, they go to jail. There is an ethics exam for accountants. It explicitely lists what constitutes ethical business practices.
The cheating with the data was written into the Fortran computer program models.
and Jones “lost some of the old data”
I actually read hundreds of pages of litigation for the enron fiasco in court. This climate gate fiasco copied how Enron operated in more ways than most of us know.

Mike Borgelt
February 24, 2010 2:26 pm

A lot of fairly long winded comments on Dr Curry’s letter:
How about: BS and CYA.
Just where do you get off Dr Curry, calling people “deniers” ?

TinyCo2
February 24, 2010 2:27 pm

Oh wow. When you read all these fantastic, unique replies, how can anyone think that sceptics are anything but honestly, passionately motivated people?
There are many highlights but Luboš Motl (08:16:29) and Willis Eschenbach (13:50:31) are particularly stirring replies.

Bill
February 24, 2010 2:27 pm

In some ways this is an interesting article. But, strangely, while it is littered with references to ‘big oil’ it nowhere mentions ‘big environmentalism’ or the big businesses that are making a killing out of pushing the AGW scam.

Eve
February 24, 2010 2:31 pm

Dr. Curry: The problem is the idea of climate change. I am not a climate scientist; I am one of the masses, a worker and a taxpayer. But I did go to school including university and I have a science background. I know there was a Medieval Warm Period and I know there was a Little Ice Age as well as the Roman Warm Period and the Dark Ages. I know that this planet has been without ice at either pole and I know the planet is on its 3rd atmosphere. I know this planet’s climate changes, sometimes drastically.
When the IPCC displayed the hockey stick with no Medieval Warm Period and no LIA, they showed they and the scientists behind it, could not be trusted. When Al Gore started jetting around the globe with his Inconvenient Truth show, he showed he could not be trusted. Every newspaper and TV station that talks about “climate change” shows that they also cannot be trusted. Every politician who supports cap and trade or a carbon tax shows that they too cannot be trusted.
What this has done is to destroy the public’s trust in science and the IPCC, as well as in our politicians and mainstream media.
It was not the bloggers who did this; it was the IPCC and climate scientists, claiming junk science as truth.

jaypan
February 24, 2010 2:33 pm

@Willis Eschenbach (13:50:31) :
Well done. Thank you.

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 2:38 pm

“….the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists….”
………………………………………………………………………………………..
It is not perceived. It is real. It is incorrect to use the word perceived. This word leaves the wrong impression of what is really happening in global warming ‘science’.
Science does not allow this sort of misinterpretation. Science is supposed to unforgivingly adhere to accuracy.
Real not perceived.

AlexB
February 24, 2010 2:38 pm

I thought it was a very good letter and I congratulate Dr Curry on taking what seems to me about as balanced an approach as one can be expected to take given the circumstances. I would like to hear a lot more scientists on the other side talk like that however I’m sure that goes both ways.
At the risk of adding something to the discussion I will give my basic premise of why I, a PhD student studying both the philosophy of the scientific method (as mainly outlined by Hume and Popper) and Materials Science is not happy with the science as presented in Journal papers by Hansen and the like.
Now there are such things as facts. What I mean by fact here is that you can say at place P and time t the measuring device M was reading between the gradations of X1 and X2. That is a fact i.e. something we can say is absolutely true because it is a singular statement which has been observed to have happened. Lets say that place P is the centre of Melbourne, time t is some time in the 1880’s and M is a thermometer and X1 is 15.4 and X2 is 15.6. Now it is not strictly factual to say that the temperature is 15.5degC in universal terms because that is not known to you to be true, by the definition of 15.5degC the thermometer could be out. Depending on the measuring case this can either be a significant problem or not and can be a significant problem in some situations of temperature measurement but lets just be reasonable and assume that this is checked properly at temperature stations. Now you want to chart this temperature over the course of 100 years in order to say that the earth has warmed and that the warming is due to CO2 by looking at N numbers of M at different Ps. Now over the course of 100 years N changes significantly, the environment around many of the P’s changes significantly, P itself changes significantly, M changes to different kinds of devices and the t of the day changes significantly. So as someone who use to work as a process control engineer let me tell you that it is not easy to sift through all that raw data and correct for everything that changed. Once the correction has been changed you end up a lot further from the facts than when you started out with that first measurement. So you have to do a lot of leg work to test the quality of your data and see how the assumptions you are making might affect your conclusions. Now there was an assumption that the top scientists at NASA had done this correctly so everyone accepted the record. Then along comes a meteorologist called Anthony Watts who starts to point out that some of these M’s which are supposed to be measuring the change in global temperature are actually measuring the change in how high the air conditioning is turned up, how big the director’s car engine is or documenting a cities sewerage production. Now just when I’m recovering from the shock that this hasn’t been checked (which to me was bigger than any gate du jour) I find the response to this is to show two corrected datasets side by side. Not to try and do this from a closely factual basis but to correct it and then try and palm it off as insignificant. Anyone who thinks that performing your correction on two different data sets and them being much the same demonstrates that there is no problem with the data sets should never have got a doctorate. It’s just insulting that they would do that. If anything it suggest a problem with the correction method.
Then it just started getting worse and worse from there and the lengths to which the science had been stuffed up on such an important issue were unimaginable and then it became quite clear that there was a lot of advocacy going on and it was too hard to separate the good science from the bad science and political advocacy to justify burning witches.
Regards,
Alex Buddery

Britannic no-see-um
February 24, 2010 2:39 pm

I found the essay did acknowledge a certain degree of the frustration we have suffered for years, although I still sense condescension, as if forced by circumstance rather than free, much as is apparent in some previously staunchly arrogant media columnists.
The allusions to ‘big oil’ and ‘denial’ is fiction. I have had a full career within the industry, in both technical (geological) and managerial positions, and in countless meetings climate change or global warming never entered the radar. Environmental factors were, of course, but not on that topic.
Let us not forget the army of past students who have benefitted from oil company bursaries and grants, for nothing in return, encouraged further staff training and publication of new research, and also the huge philanthropic heritage from oil weathy families which originally founded and benefacted various US academic research institutes, libraries etc.
Prior to the AGW political promotion, how many people could expect employment in climate science, if indeed it is a science rather than a blend of the more traditional disciplines? And to what extent, if any, were they attracted by preconceived environmental evangelism and the cateract of generous political funding, promotion, fast track papers etc? Its not dubious intent funding by ‘big oil’, its dubious intent funding by ‘big politics’, and how that funding was construed down the supervisory chain.

geo
February 24, 2010 2:40 pm

Anthony–
I generally don’t have a problem with the way she used “deniers” here, which was –mostly– a historic discussion about *before* the emergence of you and Steve (and others, of course) on the scene. Early uses she even is explictly putting emotional distance from herself in the usage –she’s saying other people used that term, not necessarily herself.
Later uses however she does sort of take ownership of it herself, but looking backwards to the “old days” when (apparently she believes) there were no “real” skeptics, just Big Earl funding biased research. Those later uses are a little troubling to me (I’ll get to that), but being backwards looking are not so troubling to me here to toss out the baby with the bathwater over it.
On the whole, I find this to be a call for toleration to the scientist community and urging them to work harder to recognize that even if Big Earl had some shills “back in the day”, that’s NOT primarily what they are dealing with today in the here and now with people like you and Steve (etc), and they need to recognize it and act like it.
Now, having said all of that. . . I have not done nearly enough research on Big Earl funded research “back in the day” to feel comfortable even now that every one of those scientists was “in the tank” and did no work worth having. I’m not.
But I also recognize the line that Dr. Curry is trying to walk here, and why. When you’re trying to close a civil war, you have to come up with some creative tightrope walking to do it. You have to give both sides a little something to hold onto to show that neither was *entirely wrong* even if neither was *entirely right* either.
I am reminded of a resolution that the Enlgish came up with to close the War of the Roses. The English have really been quite good at coming up with creative solutions to this things to paper over the past and find a way to move forward.
In that case, what they did was decide that any man who had followed “a crowned king” could not be guilty of Treason, and just let it go at that.
In my view, Dr. Curry is doing something similar here, and if I don’t entirely agree with it, I think I perceive its necessity and so am willing to let it go with a little grumble. Basically she’s saying “Oh, sure, there *were* ‘deniers’, but that’s not what we’re looking at now to any significant degree, so let’s just move on and leave the ‘denier’ stuff in the past and learn to relate to the genuine, and technically informed and talented skeptics in front of us *now*”.
I hope Dr. Curry sees my analysis and gives me at least a little wink of acknowledgement for recognizing her own attempt at a rhetorical “trick”. 😉

Editor
February 24, 2010 2:40 pm

Dr. Curry needs to step back a little further and do some epistemological reflection. Calling for changes in peer-review or transparency in data and methods are merely cosmetics that will ultimately have no effect. There are several metastasizing cancers at the core of all science today, not just climate science, that are perverting its nature.
Facts, even true facts, never speak for themselves. Creative minds assemble those facts into explanatory structures that we call theories, but the theories do not stand in some splendid isolation: they are part and parcel of the world view of the theorist. The same facts could be used to support an entirely different theory integrated into an entirely different world view.
Dr. Curry seems to feel that the funding of Big Oil was corrupting and that science needs to fight subversion by greedy commercial interests. Yet the vast bulk of funding comes from a single source: Government. When governments discovered that science could be used to further their interests (e.g. the Manhattan Project) they embraced it whole-heartedly and demanded it produce practical results. Science has not only been bought and paid for, its practitioners have whole-heartedly adopted the world-view of their paymasters and come to believe that they, too, were in the vanguard of a progressive elite. Ptolemaic Astronomy had predictive power and supported a particular world view. What makes today’s scientific paradigm any different?

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 2:44 pm

” Of greatest importance is the reduced credibility of the IPCC assessment reports…..”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
It will fall farther. It has not hit its real level yet. Its credibility has always been inflated to unreal proportions.

stun
February 24, 2010 2:44 pm

This is what I want to send to my son’s school:
<>
Any editing anyone could suggest>

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 2:48 pm

“They have had to adopt unconventional strategies to fight off what they thought was malicious interference. They defend their science based upon their years of experience and their expertise.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
This is naive. There is no mention of fighting because of the money involved.

February 24, 2010 2:49 pm

I would add an ‘Amen’ to Jryan’s request re Michael Crichton.

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 2:52 pm

“Much has been said about the role of the highly politicized environment in providing an extremely difficult environment in which to conduct science that produces a lot of stress for the scientists.”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Right is might. They were not right so they did not have might.

February 24, 2010 2:56 pm

Jerome Ravetz4
when you argue with someone, do not assume that their position is set in stone. As I showed in my second posting on WUWT, I have made some pretty big mistakes in my opinions on things, and at any moment I am trying to sort them out, seeing where I went wrong, to some extent trying to defend my integrity, and trying to see how I can move safely to a better position.>>
And there you have it. The whole misleading mess summed up in a misleading statement. Sir, your writing is eloquent, persuasive and thought provoking. But your statement above is misleading because:
1) There is a vast gulf between arguing with someone who believes in their position and arguing with someone who doesn’t believe in their position but defends it and promotes it due to ulterior motives.
2) Trying to defend you integrity and move to a safer position due to errors is again, the other side of a vast gulf from defending and promoting a position due to lies born of ulterior motives.
You presume the former in both cases. I presume the latter. Moving to a safer position is no more than deception. I will grant you the former in this case, but for the AGW proponents, the evidence suggests the latter.

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 2:58 pm

“And when your science receives this kind of attention, it means that the science is really important to the public.”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The importantce of global warming is artificial. It is a bubble like the dot-com bubble and the housing bubble. It is not real importance.
The bubble of importance was inflated by politicians, environmentalists and a few scientists.
Most scientists saw through what was going on. You can see some of these scientists in posts and columns here on WUWT, and in op-ed articles, peer reviewed papers, and documentaries.
The truth is there for everyone to see in broad daylight. The issue is: do you want to see it?

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 3:00 pm

“Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Watch the documentary, “The Great Global Warming Swindle”. That case is laid out in a simple to understand way in it.

Fitzy
February 24, 2010 3:02 pm

Dr Curry’s words seem self motivated, but coached , I fear she is being set up as a ‘Useful Idiot’, an olive branch to distract effort from the real task.
That task being the continued scrutiny of DATA, persistent analysis of the Policy makers/AGW supporters behaviour vs. statements, and the continued exposure of AGW duplicity and corruption.
Sceptics have never needed PR coaching to promote the key tenet of TRANSPARENCY in science, something the AGW supporters seem reluctant to engage in, with sceptics.
AGW offering someone up, to say what sceptics have been saying all along, is not a get out of jail free card, sceptics are not that gullible.
If there is to be bridge building, build it between those prepared to debate openly, no amount of structural fiddling behind the scenes, will undo the harm done by career AGW scientists..
They poisoned the well we all drink from, they set up the straw man argument that – ‘the public is TOO dumb’ to get it, to justify not being transparent.
We’re done with them, they are redeemable by voluntarily retiring, why continue any dialogue with evidentially corrupt and dishonest people?
Like any genuine ground swell, sceptics are connecting with people, who smell a rat but currently lack all the pieces of the puzzle. Pulling that enthusiasm for the truth back into the AGW mill, won’t remedy the corruption, it’ll corrupt the sceptical inquiry.
Beware being tied up in circular debates, that expend effort, that seek to stall real discussion, in favour of a tit for tat game of ‘they said/we said.’
Let AGW supporters come to the table one at a time, and at their own pace, if they remain unconvinced, good luck to them.
Dr Curry probably means well, and kudos to her for being open, but I remain, as always, sceptical.

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 3:03 pm

“Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry.”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Huh, really. It is unfair to make a blanket statement like this. It leaves the impression that you are playing the ‘big oil card’.

February 24, 2010 3:04 pm

“The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC…”
So this is the latest strategy? Bang on at extreme length about all kinds of motherhood stuff, say next to nothing, and bury your AGW message amongst the wordy dross in hope that the people will keep absorbing it?

Dean
February 24, 2010 3:04 pm

The core of the problem is found in the second to last paragraph; ‘No one really believes that “the science is settled” or that “the debat is over”‘. This is exactly what ‘deniers’ have been told for the last decade and it did not just ‘seem’ that those who said this were advocating rather than doing science, they were advocating. Then the advocates compounded the insult by insisting that the only ‘scientific’ response was some really injurious political action, ignoring the advice of people like Bjorn Lumborg that the advocated cure was worse then the disiese, even if one accepted the worst case predictions. Since the predictive modles have so far been shown not to predict anything which actually happens, I believe ‘deniers’ are justified in suspecting that the advocated policy is the true point, not simply a passionate disagreement about the science.

DirkH
February 24, 2010 3:06 pm

“Tony B (another one) (11:10:03) :
[…]
“The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America””
The “truth”? Give me a break.”
Very good. You recognized the neurolinguistic programming tactics. Dr. Curry, send your ghostwriter to the re-education camp another time…

It's always Marcia, Marcia
February 24, 2010 3:08 pm

“…..climate auditors……many of them classify themselves as “lukewarmers”….”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Some would have been a better word than many.

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