On the Credibility of Climate Research, Part II: Towards Rebuilding Trust

Foreword – Below is  a guest post (by request) from Dr. Judith Curry on the issues we deal with every day here. While I and other like minded bloggers were given the opportunity to have some early input into this, little of it was accepted. This I think puts it off to a bad start in light of the title. One of my issues was that it wasn’t necessary to use the word “deniers”, which I think removal of is central to any discourse that includes a goal of “rebuilding trust”. There’s also other more technical issues related to current investigations that are not addressed here.

I had made my concerns known to Dr. Curry before in this post: The Curry letter: a word about “deniers”… which is worth re-reading again.

To be frank, given that she’s still using the term even when pointed out, and had deferred other valid suggestions from other skeptics, I’d given serious consideration to not carrying this at all. But I had carried Dr. Curry’s original post (at my request) on 11/27/09, just seven days after the Climategate story broke here at WUWT on 11/20/09:

An open letter from Dr. Judith Curry on climate science

Since I had carried that one at my request to Dr. Curry, I decided it only fair that I’d carry this one she offered, but with the above caveat. Further, as Andrew Revkin pointed out yesterday, WUWT is now by far the most trafficked climate blog in the world. With that comes a level of responsibility to broadly report the issues. Readers should give their opinion here, pulling no punches, but with one caveat: make the discourse respectful and without labels or inflammatory comments. – Anthony


Judith  Curry

Guest post by Judith Curry, Georgia Institute of Technology

I am trying something new, a blogospheric experiment, if you will.  I have been a fairly active participant in the blogosphere since 2006, and recently posted two essays on climategate, one at climateaudit.org and the other at climateprogress.org.  Both essays were subsequently picked up by other blogs, and the diversity of opinions expressed at the different blogs was quite interesting.  Hence I am distributing this essay to a number of different blogs simultaneously with the hope of demonstrating the collective power of the blogosphere to generate ideas and debate them.  I look forward to a stimulating discussion on this important topic.

Losing the Public’s Trust

Climategate has now become broadened in scope to extend beyond the CRU emails to include glaciergate and a host of other issues associated with the IPCC. In responding to climategate, the climate research establishment has appealed to its own authority and failed to understand that climategate is primarily a crisis of trust.  Finally, we have an editorial published in Science on February 10 from Ralph Cicerone, President of the National Academy of Science, that begins to articulate the trust issue: “This view reflects the fragile nature of trust between science and society, demonstrating that the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists can diminish the credibility of science as a whole. What needs to be done? Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”  While I applaud loudly Dr. Cicerone’s statement, I wish it had been made earlier and had not been isolated from the public by publishing the statement behind paywall at Science. Unfortunately, the void of substantive statements from our institutions has been filled in ways that have made the situation much worse.

Credibility is a combination of expertise and trust.  While scientists persist in thinking that they should be trusted because of their expertise, climategate has made it clear that expertise itself is not a sufficient basis for public trust.  The fallout from climategate is much broader than the allegations of misconduct by scientists at two universities.   Of greatest importance is the reduced credibility of the IPCC assessment reports, which are providing the scientific basis for international policies on climate change.  Recent disclosures about the IPCC have brought up a host of concerns about the IPCC that had been festering in the background: involvement of IPCC scientists in explicit climate policy advocacy; tribalism that excluded skeptics; hubris of scientists with regards to a noble (Nobel) cause; alarmism; and inadequate attention to the statistics of uncertainty and the complexity of alternative interpretations.

The scientists involved in the CRU emails and the IPCC have been defended as scientists with the best of intentions trying to do their work in a very difficult environment.  They blame the alleged hacking incident on the “climate denial machine.”  They are described as fighting a valiant war to keep misinformation from the public that is being pushed by skeptics with links to the oil industry. They are focused on moving the science forward, rather than the janitorial work of record keeping, data archival, etc. They have had to adopt unconventional strategies to fight off what they thought was malicious interference. They defend their science based upon their years of experience and their expertise.

Scientists are claiming that the scientific content of the IPCC reports is not compromised by climategate.  The jury is still out on the specific fallout from climategate in terms of the historical and paleo temperature records.   There are larger concerns (raised by glaciergate, etc.) particularly with regards to the IPCC Assessment Report on Impacts (Working Group II):  has a combination of groupthink, political advocacy and a noble cause syndrome stifled scientific debate, slowed down scientific progress and corrupted the assessment process?  If institutions are doing their jobs, then misconduct by a few individual scientists should be quickly identified, and the impacts of the misconduct should be confined and quickly rectified.  Institutions need to look in the mirror and ask the question as to how they enabled this situation and what opportunities they missed to forestall such substantial loss of public trust in climate research and the major assessment reports.

In their misguided war against the skeptics, the CRU emails reveal that core research values became compromised.   Much has been said about the role of the highly politicized environment in providing an extremely difficult environment in which to conduct science that produces a lot of stress for the scientists.  There is no question that this environment is not conducive to science and scientists need more support from their institutions in dealing with it.  However, there is nothing in this crazy environment that is worth sacrificing your personal or professional integrity.  And when your science receives this kind of attention, it means that the science is really important to the public.  Therefore scientists need to do everything possible to make sure that they effectively communicate uncertainty, risk, probability and complexity, and provide a context that includes alternative and competing scientific viewpoints.  This is an important responsibility that individual scientists and particularly the institutions need to take very seriously.

Both individual scientists and the institutions need to look in the mirror and really understand how this happened.  Climategate isn’t going to go away until these issues are resolved.   Science is ultimately a self-correcting process, but with a major international treaty and far-reaching domestic legislation on the table, the stakes couldn’t be higher.

The Changing Nature of Skepticism about Global Warming

Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed.  In my informal investigations, I have been listening to the perspectives of a broad range of people that have been labeled as “skeptics” or even “deniers”.  I have come to understand that global warming skepticism is very different now than it was five years ago.  Here is my take on how global warming skepticism has evolved over the past several decades.

In the 1980’s, James Hansen and Steven Schneider led the charge in informing the public of the risks of potential anthropogenic climate change.  Sir John Houghton and Bert Bolin played similar roles in Europe.  This charge was embraced by the environmental advocacy groups, and global warming alarmism was born.  During this period I would say that many if not most researchers, including myself, were skeptical that global warming was detectable in the temperature record and that it would have dire consequences.  The traditional foes of the environmental movement worked to counter the alarmism of the environmental movement, but this was mostly a war between advocacy groups and not an issue that had taken hold in the mainstream media and the public consciousness.  In the first few years of the 21st century, the stakes became higher and we saw the birth of what some have called a “monolithic climate denial machine”.  Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry. This was all amplified by talk radio and cable news.

In 2006 and 2007, things changed as a result of Al Gore’s movie “An Inconvenient Truth” plus the IPCC 4th Assessment Report, and global warming became a seemingly unstoppable juggernaut.  The reason that the IPCC 4th Assessment Report was so influential is that people trusted the process the IPCC described:  participation of a thousand scientists from 100 different countries, who worked for several years to produce 3000 pages with thousands of peer reviewed scientific references, with extensive peer review.  Further, the process was undertaken with the participation of policy makers under the watchful eyes of advocacy groups with a broad range of conflicting interests.   As a result of the IPCC influence, scientific skepticism by academic researchers became vastly diminished and it became easier to embellish the IPCC findings rather than to buck the juggernaut.  Big oil funding for contrary views mostly dried up and the mainstream media supported the IPCC consensus. But there was a new movement in the blogosphere, which I refer to as the “climate auditors”, started by Steve McIntyre.  The climate change establishment failed to understand this changing dynamic, and continued to blame skepticism on the denial machine funded by big oil.

Climate Auditors and the Blogosphere

Steve McIntyre started the blog climateaudit.org so that he could defend himself against claims being made at the blog realclimate.org with regards to his critique of the “hockey stick” since he was unable to post his comments there.  Climateaudit has focused on auditing topics related to the paleoclimate reconstructions over the past millennia (in particular the so called “hockey stick”) and also the software being used by climate researchers to fix data problems due to poor quality surface weather stations in the historical climate data record. McIntyre’s “auditing” became very popular not only with the skeptics, but also with the progressive “open source” community, and there are now a number of such blogs.  The blog with the largest public audience is wattsupwiththat.com, led by weatherman Anthony Watts, with over 2 million unique visitors each month.

So who are the climate auditors?  They are technically educated people, mostly outside of academia.  Several individuals have developed substantial expertise in aspects of climate science, although they mainly audit rather than produce original scientific research. They tend to be watchdogs rather than deniers; many of them classify themselves as “lukewarmers”. They are independent of oil industry influence.  They have found a collective voice in the blogosphere and their posts are often picked up by the mainstream media. They are demanding greater accountability and transparency of climate research and assessment reports.

So what motivated their FOIA requests of the CRU at the University of East Anglia?  Last weekend, I was part of a discussion on this issue at the Blackboard.  Among the participants in this discussion was Steven Mosher, who broke the climategate story and has already written a book on it here. They are concerned about inadvertent introduction of bias into the CRU temperature data by having the same people who create the dataset use the dataset in research and in verifying climate models; this concern applies to both NASA GISS and the connection between CRU and the Hadley Centre. This concern is exacerbated by the choice of James Hansen at NASA GISS to become a policy advocate, and his forecasts of forthcoming “warmest years.”  Medical research has long been concerned with the introduction of such bias, which is why they conduct double blind studies when testing the efficacy of a medical treatment. Any such bias could be checked by independent analyses of the data; however, people outside the inner circle were unable to obtain access to the information required to link the raw data to the final analyzed product.  Further, creation of the surface data sets was treated like a research project, with no emphasis on data quality analysis, and there was no independent oversight.  Given the importance of these data sets both to scientific research and public policy, they feel that greater public accountability is required.

So why do the mainstream climate researchers have such a problem with the climate auditors? The scientists involved in the CRU emails seem to regard Steve McIntyre as their arch-nemesis (Roger Pielke Jr’s term). Steve McIntyre’s early critiques of the hockey stick were dismissed and he was characterized as a shill for the oil industry.   Academic/blogospheric guerilla warfare ensued, as the academic researchers tried to prevent access of the climate auditors to publishing in scientific journals and presenting their work at professional conferences, and tried to deny them access to published research data and computer programs. The bloggers countered with highly critical posts in the blogosphere and FOIA requests.  And climategate was the result.

So how did this group of bloggers succeed in bringing the climate establishment to its knees (whether or not the climate establishment realizes yet that this has happened)?  Again, trust plays a big role; it was pretty easy to follow the money trail associated with the “denial machine”.  On the other hand, the climate auditors have no apparent political agenda,

are doing this work for free, and have been playing a watchdog role, which has engendered the trust of a large segment of the population.

Towards Rebuilding Trust

Rebuilding trust with the public on the subject of climate research starts with Ralph Cicerone’s statement “Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.”   Much has been written about the need for greater transparency, reforms to peer review, etc. and I am hopeful that the relevant institutions will respond appropriately.  Investigations of misconduct are being conducted at the University of East Anglia and at Penn State.  Here I would like to bring up some broader issues that will require substantial reflection by the institutions and also by individual scientists.

Climate research and its institutions have not yet adapted to its high policy relevance.  How scientists can most effectively and appropriately engage with the policy process is a topic that has not been adequately discussed (e.g. the “honest broker” challenge discussed by Roger Pielke Jr), and climate researchers are poorly informed in this regard.  The result has been reflexive support for the UNFCCC policy agenda (e.g. carbon cap and trade) by many climate researchers that are involved in the public debate (particularly those involved in the IPCC), which they believe follows logically from the findings of the (allegedly policy neutral) IPCC. The often misinformed policy advocacy by this group of climate scientists has played a role in the political polarization of this issue.. The interface between science and policy is a muddy issue, but it is very important that scientists have guidance in navigating the potential pitfalls.  Improving this situation could help defuse the hostile environment that scientists involved in the public debate have to deal with, and would also help restore the public trust of climate scientists.

The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America” by Chris Mooney.  Efforts are made to “dumb down” the message and to frame the message to respond to issues that are salient to the audience.   People have heard the alarm, but they remain unconvinced because of a perceived political agenda and lack of trust of the message and the messengers. At the same time, there is a large group of educated and evidence driven people (e.g. the libertarians, people that read the technical skeptic blogs, not to mention policy makers) who want to understand the risk and uncertainties associated with climate change, without being told what kinds of policies they should be supporting. More effective communication strategies can be devised by recognizing that there are two groups with different levels of base knowledge about the topic.  But building trust through public communication on this topic requires that uncertainty be acknowledged.  My own experience in making public presentations about climate change has found that discussing the uncertainties increases the public trust in what scientists are trying to convey and doesn’t detract from the receptivity to understanding climate change risks (they distrust alarmism). Trust can also be rebuilt by  discussing broad choices rather than focusing on specific policies.

And finally, the blogosphere can be a very powerful tool for increasing the credibility of climate research.  “Dueling blogs”  (e.g. climateprogress.org versus wattsupwiththat.com and realclimate.org versus climateaudit.org) can actually enhance public trust in the science as they see both sides of the arguments being discussed.  Debating science with skeptics should be the spice of academic life, but many climate researchers lost this somehow by mistakenly thinking that skeptical arguments would diminish the public trust in the message coming from the climate research establishment.   Such debate is alive and well in the blogosphere, but few mainstream climate researchers participate in the blogospheric debate.  The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers in this, and other academic climate researchers hosting blogs include Roy Spencer, Roger Pielke Sr and Jr, Richard Rood, and Andrew Dessler. The blogs that are most effective are those that allow comments from both sides of the debate (many blogs are heavily moderated).  While the blogosphere has a “wild west” aspect to it, I have certainly learned a lot by participating in the blogospheric debate including how to sharpen my thinking and improve the rhetoric of my arguments. Additional scientific voices entering the public debate particularly in the blogosphere would help in the broader communication efforts and in rebuilding trust. And we need to acknowledge the emerging auditing and open source movements in the in the internet-enabled world, and put them to productive use.  The openness and democratization of knowledge enabled by the internet can be a tremendous tool for building public understanding of climate science and also trust in climate research.

No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.”  Scientists and others that say this seem to want to advance a particular agenda.  There is nothing more detrimental to public trust than such statements.

And finally, I hope that this blogospheric experiment will demonstrate how the diversity of the different blogs can be used collectively to generate ideas and debate them, towards bringing some sanity to this whole situation surrounding the politicization of climate science and rebuilding trust with the public.

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Jimbo
February 24, 2010 12:16 pm

Dr. Judith Curry

“…it was pretty easy to follow the money trail associated with the “denial machine.”

You asked for it good Doctor Judith:
CRU Funding
British Petroleum (Oil, LNG)
Central Electricity Generating Board
Eastern Electricity
KFA Germany (Nuclear)
Irish Electricity Supply Board (LNG, Nuclear)
National Power
Nuclear Installations Inspectorate (Nuclear)
Shell (Oil, LNG)
Sultanate of Oman (LNG)
UK Nirex Ltd. (Nuclear)
Source: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/about/history/
————
In 2005, Pachauri helped set up set up GloriOil, a Texas firm specialising in technology which allows the last remaining reserves to be extracted from oilfields otherwise at the end of their useful life.
“He is an internationally recognized figure in energy and sustainable development, having served on numerous boards and committees including Director of the Oil and Natural Gas Company of India; Director of the Indian Oil Corporation Limited;…
Source: http://www.glorioil.com/advisors.htm
“Our chemical lab in Houston is state of the art, custom built for purpose with one goal in mind – to supply the US oil industry with world class biotechnology to increase oil recovery from mature fields.”
Source: http://www.glorioil.com/technology.htm
“Our research facility in India focuses primarily on long term R&D projects such as heavy oil degradation, methane biogeneration from coal beds, and other initiatives.”
Source: http://www.glorioil.com/company.htm
———-
CRU seeks big oil and big business cash
Source:
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=171&filename=962818260.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=156&filename=947541692.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=332&filename=1056478635.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=270&filename=1019513684.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1041&filename=1254832684.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=204&filename=973374325.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=185&filename=968691929.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=159&filename=951431850.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=362&filename=1065125462.txt
And not to mention Al Gore and Pachauri’s financial interest in the carbon credit markets which is making both men quite rich. As you said it is “pretty easy to follow the money trail..” Now what did you say?

Micky C
February 24, 2010 12:20 pm

Dr Curry
I commented on your part one I think it was on Joe Romm’s blog. My view has not changed on the whole climate science debacle.
I agree with some of what you said however not once did I hear what is the correct scientific method: 1) You come up with an idea 2) You test it 3) You get all your mates and then others to test it 4) When you run out of ideas and things to test, then you might be onto something.
CO2 forcing has NEVER been tested in laboratory conditions. If you don’t believe me go and do a literary search (like on scopus). I have and have consistently failed to come across empirical measurements of CO2 forcing. On that basis it has never been characterised. What we have here is a case of the theorists running amok; the age old battle between empiricists and theorists that I have observed throughout my career with not one person saying look we have to measure this because the people involved just don’t do that.
Saying that forcing measurements can’t be done in a lab or it’s too expensive is a bad argument. Look at the LHC.
Theory can be more attractive, purer and elegant; measurement can be ugly and raise more questions than it answers. But we don’t get to choose what scientific method we want to use. We have to back everything up.
To make my point explicitly clear: CO2 absorbs and re-emits radiation in the IR spectrum. Adding CO2 to air containing water vapour and ozone is meant to raise the emitting surface of the atmosphere higher, which with the lapse rate variation restricitions, causes the surface temperature to increase. There is also believed to be a positive feedback with water vapour further enhancing the surface temperature. Now a recent theory suggests the atmosphere is in saturation and CO2 increases are accompanied by a humidity decrease. Increased CO2 has a minor role it any. These are interesting theories.
However they have no substance unless the mechanism of increased re-emitted radiation by increasing Co2, which either causes a surface to reach higher temperature or not, is shown to be consistent in large scale laboratory conditions. I have heard ad finitum about ‘basic physics’ of CO2. Well those physics have been extrapolated without empirical evidence to back it up. Additionally I have heard about the wings of the emission curves. Well test that theory. In stellar physics the wings are normally used to infer temperatures inside stars as the photosphere emission is saturated. The wings are of the order of 10000 times less intensity than the peak. So even though the star may be 1000 K hotter internally not a lot more light is getting out.
What I hoped you would address it there is a hole right at the heart of ‘climate science’ namely lack of basic empirical characterisation of the principal mechanism of AGW, which means that it is not science at all…simply a healthy thought experiment.
Now please deny that.
Dr Michael H Corbett

P Walker
February 24, 2010 12:20 pm

I second Paul Hildebrandt ‘s post (10:28:03) . Someone above called Dr. Curry’s essay an olive branch , but I suspect it might be a Trojan Horse .

February 24, 2010 12:20 pm

Dear Dr. Curry:
I just finished watching you on Georgia television, taped in 2007, discussing rising air temps and rising surface temps and more severe droughts and more hurricanes and more severe, (cat 4), hurricanes and temperature increases of 7F-8F-9F degrees, and melting polar ice caps and 18′ sea level rise within a century or two and resulting devastation of all the major cities on the Eastern Seaboard — and I just finished reading your 2007 statement saying .. if the world is getting warmer, (It is) … If mankind is contributing to global warming, (it is) … (All of which, though pre-Climategate dated, sounds suspiciously like “settled science” and extreme alarmism) …
In light of the fact that the rate of global warming from 1975-1998 was statistically identical to the rate of global warming from 1910 to 1940, and that same rate of statistically significant warming was also virtually identical to the rate of global warming found from 1860-1880 …
And in light of the fact that there has been no significant warming for the past 15 years …
And in light of the fact that there has been no significant sea-level rise in the past 5 or 6 years …
And in light of the on-going ever-increasing CO2 levels …
Do you stand by your pre-Climategate, 2007 pronouncements and 2007 beliefs?

Pieter F
February 24, 2010 12:22 pm

I wonder if/how Dr. Curry’s opinions might change should she have the history of the matter in proper order. Sure, Hansen and Schneider “led the charge” in the 1980s, but climate alarmism did not begin with them. It was already a decade old by that point. Leaving out that previous period—and especially Maurice Strong’s evangelism—leaves a void in truly understanding the origins of AGW alarmism. By the 1980s, several disciplines (especially the work of Fairbridge and colleagues) had a good handle on the ancient climate and, in particular, our Holocene Interglacial. In the 80s, the work of Haq and many others put detail on the paleoclimate. In that environment, Strong came right out and stated that he needed find a way to put a rational, science-based explanation on AGW in order to forward his “social and environmental justice” agenda. Hansen’s financial support from the Heinz Foundation got the ball rolling in a big way and before Congress despite Roger Revelle’s later cautions.
Dr. Curry also failed to notice that climateaudit.org preceded realclimate.org, or that realclimate was underwritten by the Tides Foundation, an organization well known for it’s links to leftist causes including “social justice.”
Perhaps one of the most telling moments of the climategate scandal is when it was revealed that in 1995 the CRU players recognized that the Medieval Warm Period was going to be a problem for their cause. The existence of the MWP, supported by deep data from multiple disciplines including entomology and cultural literature (the Sagas) as well as eustatic sea level studies and geology, was a fundamental criticism of the IPCC’s results in the early 90s. It is now not surprising why Briffa’s first paper saying the coldest year of the past millenium appeared, followed by MBH88, MBH99, and then the spate of circular papers that supported MBH99. All this until the door was opened to the bad behavior in 2009 thanks to the data archiving policy of the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society which gave McIntyre an opportunity to discover what was really going on.
Any discussion about the topic now is not complete in the absence of at least mentioning Strong’s championing the IPCC since the 1970s and the Progressive Collectivists agenda behind it. It must also include the Copenhagen draft treaty and it’s core elements of environmental justice and remunerating Third World countries for their “loss of dignity” and “environmental justice” which have nothing to do with climate change.

February 24, 2010 12:22 pm

When will the eco elite see that the public has a brain. The elitism of science is its downfall where they have no moral compass about labeling people deniers then lecturing them on how things should be. Open discourse embracing all opinion is what debate is really about, not trying to sideline your critics by ad hominen attacks.

Pamela Gray
February 24, 2010 12:29 pm

One more thought and to place this in context, Dr. Curry, we are debating the science that is promoting world-wide controls be placed on anthropogenic CO2 and other human-sourced greenhouse gasses, gasses that make up a tiny, tiny fraction of natural greenhouse gas affects. We are, in essence, arguing over the science behind the study of the size of the anal orifice of a gnat’s ass. See the last graph:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

February 24, 2010 12:31 pm

Do we notice a new development here in the call for democratisation of science?
This is called for both to solve the problem of ‘trust’ and to address the demands of the public in the age of blogs. Well, we all want that dont we? Hulme and Ravetz make the same point. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8388485.stm the public want to get involved, so we will have a ‘citizens council’.
Let me point out that before there was the internet there were free public libraries, and there were university libraries with all their print scientific journals open to all, so that anyone could walk in read an editorical in Science. There was also anonomyous peer review, so that an article a McIntyre could be judge on its merits…and the principle of repeatability required access to the primary data of all research. etc. I am not saying the systems of scientific process always worked, but they were in place. I am not saying there are no criminals, but when you catch one there are laws to deal with them. Perhaps what the blog public is asking is: where the hell are the policemen?
There are reasons why the public want to get involved that are to do with corruption of the scientific process. And because this corruption impacts on society. I dont want to be involved in medicine, but if malpractice is causing me to get sick then I take an interest. I dont want to be a climatologist, but if there is with malpractice at such a monumental scale behind monumental social policy, well I kinda take an interest.
When science is corrupted by politics then more politics is not the remedy.

JackStraw
February 24, 2010 12:31 pm

I’m happy to see Joe Romm’s response to Dr. Curry’s letter on Climate Progress right after the post welcoming Van Jones back into the fold (that ought to speak volumes to anyone who still harbors the quaint idea that this was ever about science and not politics). His response is nasty and juvenile.
Perhaps now Dr. Curry will realize what debate means to those on her former side of the aisle and why any progress in this debate needs to come first and foremost from the AGW crowd.
I won’t be holding my breath.

A Lovell
February 24, 2010 12:32 pm

I’m afraid I find I cannot trust Dr Curry.
There are supposedly five stages of grief. They are applying quite well to the unravelling of the AGW ‘science’.
1 Denial
2 Anger
3 Bargaining
4 Depression
5 Acceptance
We’ve had the denial – The Science is still robust, snow = global warming etc.
We’ve had the anger – Many unforgiveably vicious articles such as the one by Jeffrey Sachs.
Now, we come to the bargaining. Dr Curry is willing to enter into a civilised discourse with ‘auditors’, but not the rest of the rabble. It seems like a ploy to make us sceptics let our guard down.
Please don’t give an inch.
Roll on Depression and Acceptance I say!

Rhoda R
February 24, 2010 12:33 pm

I agree with Anthony – the term “denier” should be deep-sixed. Some people have posited the use of “skeptic” in its place but I disagree – “skeptic” implies potential disagreement with a scientific hypothesis and the AGW assurtions so far have failed to meet the definitions of science. I suggest instead that we refer to ourselves as “heretics” thus placing AGW (Al Gore Warming) into its proper context.

c james
February 24, 2010 12:33 pm

Henry chance (11:18:56) :
“Joe Romm has just posted the letter and rips her appart. If Judith can’t cuss and smear Romm’s enemies, he has no use for her.”
Sadly….I think that if Dr. Curry cannot cuss and smear the true AGW believers, many posters on this blog have no use for her either.
When was the last time you had a discussion with someone who said “Eureka! I now see your point and everything I have believed until now was wrong and you are right”?
When someone like Dr. Curry makes a step in the right direction, wouldn’t it be better to extend a helpful hand than to insult her effort?

Ray Hudson
February 24, 2010 12:35 pm

When Ralph Cicerone says the following:
“This view reflects the fragile nature of trust between science and society, demonstrating that the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists can diminish the credibility of science as a whole.”
He, and Dr. Curry miss an important point. Up until the advent of AGW, and then Climategate, the public’s trust of science was not all that “fragile.” Rather, the fragility has always been the public’s trust of politics, in general, and politicians, to be specific. And by the way, that trust should always be fragile, because politics is about coersion at is most basic level. To those of us who are always skeptical of politicians, red lights began to flash and red flags were waving just as soon as Al Gore became the spokesmodel for AGW. That signified a political intent to compromise the open nature of science, and co-opt it for political purposes. And those scientists who are beholden to receiving government grants were only to happy to follow a politician’s lead right into the next big political scandal. And science, because it is not anthropomorphic, it has no personality and cannot “cheat,” was merely part of the collateral damage in this political fiasco. People performed “bad science” and violated the principles of “good science” all in the name of politics.
This is a political issue first and foremost, and again I point to the activities of Al Gore as the single best piece of evidence to prove that claim.

February 24, 2010 12:35 pm

“The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers in this, and other academic climate researchers hosting blogs include Roy Spencer, Roger Pielke Sr and Jr, Richard Rood, and Andrew Dessler. The blogs that are most effective are those that allow comments from both sides of the debate (many blogs are heavily moderated).”
Ironic indeed that realclimate.org is by far the MOST heavily moderated blog that I am aware of. Does she mean that she thinks RealClimate.org is the LEAST effective? I doubt it.
Doubly ironic to think that Dr. Judith Curry, who says she knows the science isn’t “settled”, can sing the praises of RC, a website that clearly advocates the ‘settled’ concept and constantly and consistently removes most contrarian and skeptic concepts from their site. Maintaining a false illusion is the OPPOSITE of scientific discourse which means realclimate is based less on science and more on politics and advocacy. Add that to the fact that ClimateGate participant Gavin Schmidt basically runs RC and you can see why skeptics raise their collective voices in frustration at so many Foxes in so many Henhouses, it’s a very sad state of affairs…

February 24, 2010 12:36 pm

Dr. Curry, I have another problem with your long essay beyond the implications that color the use of the word “denier”, an issue on which I have already commented.
I also noted several of your references to “big oil”. Is there perhaps an implication of unfairness if “big oil” questions the unproven theory underlying the concept of AGW? Presuming that these references relate to scientific research conducted by “big oil” (e.g., oil companies), is their’s somehow less worthy than research funded by grants from “big government”?
Considering that combustion (i.e., oxidation) of coal provides perhaps half of our electric power (even a much higher proportion in developing nations), and this is a much more aggressive contributor of CO2 for a given amount of energy, is it fair to cite “big oil” (a frequent victim of attacks by AGW proponents), but not “big coal” as well? Is there an intentional lack of balance in mentioning “big oil” as a pejorative without also mentioning “big coal” or “big government”?

February 24, 2010 12:37 pm

The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. Ralph W. Sockman
Will advocates of anthropogenic global warming (“climate science”) have the tolerance to take each and every challenge and thoroughly test their models to find bedrock solid science? Or continue to try to ignore, hide or bury the “skeptics” or “climate realists”, regardless of the science?

Allan M
February 24, 2010 12:38 pm

Viv Evans (09:17:19) :
I applaud Dr Curry’s second letter, trying to build bridges. It is indeed courageous.
But after the bit about rebuilding trust, it seems to me she might be building a bridge for us to cross. After the decaces of lies, damn lies and manipulations of the green lobby, when finally they have been caught out in the big one, it may be a bit fanciful.

Lexical Tom
February 24, 2010 12:39 pm

Michel 07:31
Cromwell was even more reasonable than your report , and it is something one ought to repeat to those who are so convinced that they cannot posibly be wrong as to engage with some respect for those with whom they do not agree.
Cromwell said
“I beseech you in the bowels of Christ THINK IT POSSIBLE that you may be mistaken”
(words in CAPS omiytted by Michel)

February 24, 2010 12:45 pm

Dr. Curry
Your post has the beginnings of addressing the problem, but still avoids the serious issues. Steve McIntyre has a very thought provoking post on:
Rob Bradley: Climategate from an Enron Perspective Feb 24, 2010 – 11:35 AM.
I strongly recommend you review and assimilate those foundational issues where climate science has acted like Enron.

RockyRoad
February 24, 2010 12:48 pm

At least Ms. Curry seems to be more open-minded than EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, who disbelieves what Phil Jones had to say recently about the science being settled.
http://www.heartland.org/full/27124/EPA_Chief_More_Alarmist_than_Disgraced_Climategate_Scientists.html

February 24, 2010 12:48 pm

A few things that stuck out to me.
Everything is dumbed down for little ole us?
An Inconvenient Truth changed things? In her mind the subject should be… How skeptics have “evolved”?
How she described the environment as Highly politicized, Extremely difficult, Crazy, Insane…if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. How she can “Easily follow the money” of skeptics but never crosses her mind to “follow the money” to the researchers.
Skeptic quotes are “picked up by the MSM” news to me. Last but not least, Climategate is ALL the Bloggers fault for asking for information!

fabius
February 24, 2010 12:49 pm

Dr Curry has to take into account that policy based on science has implications for the poorest people in society. She can advocate based on her beliefs all she wants but if the science is against her she will look increasingly stupid.
When my elderly neighbour can no longer afford to buy food or heat their home I will tell her it is all right as she is helping to save the planet.

Antonio San
February 24, 2010 12:51 pm

Hilarious!
Joe Romm and his goons are not happy at all and the response here is also unhappiness! So many people unhappy… like hormone pumped pimpled teenagers!

Person of Choler
February 24, 2010 12:53 pm

Could somebody tell me why I should trust a “scientist” any more than I should trust a “used car salesman”, “lawyer”, “chiropractor”, “stock broker…”?
What does a vocational label have to do with trust?

February 24, 2010 12:54 pm

No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.” Scientists and others that say this seem to want to advance a particular agenda. There is nothing more detrimental to public trust than such statements.

Unfortunately, this claim of “settled science” is being repeated again and again from very public sources. This includes the former Norwegian Prime Minister, now United Nations’ Special Envoy on Climate Change, Mrs. Gro Harlem Brundtland:

“It is irresponsible, reckless and deeply immoral to question the seriousness of the situation. The time for diagnosis is over.”

The above is a quote from the official Norwegian government website (‘regjering’=government) with Mrs. Brundtland’s March 17, 2009 speech at the UN Commission on Sustainable Development
http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/selected-topics/un/Brundtland_speech_CSD.html?id=465906
Which particular agenda is it that you think Mrs. Brundtland is advancing?

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