Foreword – Below is a guest post (by request) from Dr. Judith Curry on the issues we deal with every day here. While I and other like minded bloggers were given the opportunity to have some early input into this, little of it was accepted. This I think puts it off to a bad start in light of the title. One of my issues was that it wasn’t necessary to use the word “deniers”, which I think removal of is central to any discourse that includes a goal of “rebuilding trust”. There’s also other more technical issues related to current investigations that are not addressed here.
I had made my concerns known to Dr. Curry before in this post: The Curry letter: a word about “deniers”… which is worth re-reading again.
To be frank, given that she’s still using the term even when pointed out, and had deferred other valid suggestions from other skeptics, I’d given serious consideration to not carrying this at all. But I had carried Dr. Curry’s original post (at my request) on 11/27/09, just seven days after the Climategate story broke here at WUWT on 11/20/09:
An open letter from Dr. Judith Curry on climate science
Since I had carried that one at my request to Dr. Curry, I decided it only fair that I’d carry this one she offered, but with the above caveat. Further, as Andrew Revkin pointed out yesterday, WUWT is now by far the most trafficked climate blog in the world. With that comes a level of responsibility to broadly report the issues. Readers should give their opinion here, pulling no punches, but with one caveat: make the discourse respectful and without labels or inflammatory comments. – Anthony

Guest post by Judith Curry, Georgia Institute of Technology
I am trying something new, a blogospheric experiment, if you will. I have been a fairly active participant in the blogosphere since 2006, and recently posted two essays on climategate, one at climateaudit.org and the other at climateprogress.org. Both essays were subsequently picked up by other blogs, and the diversity of opinions expressed at the different blogs was quite interesting. Hence I am distributing this essay to a number of different blogs simultaneously with the hope of demonstrating the collective power of the blogosphere to generate ideas and debate them. I look forward to a stimulating discussion on this important topic.
Losing the Public’s Trust
Climategate has now become broadened in scope to extend beyond the CRU emails to include glaciergate and a host of other issues associated with the IPCC. In responding to climategate, the climate research establishment has appealed to its own authority and failed to understand that climategate is primarily a crisis of trust. Finally, we have an editorial published in Science on February 10 from Ralph Cicerone, President of the National Academy of Science, that begins to articulate the trust issue: “This view reflects the fragile nature of trust between science and society, demonstrating that the perceived misbehavior of even a few scientists can diminish the credibility of science as a whole. What needs to be done? Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.” While I applaud loudly Dr. Cicerone’s statement, I wish it had been made earlier and had not been isolated from the public by publishing the statement behind paywall at Science. Unfortunately, the void of substantive statements from our institutions has been filled in ways that have made the situation much worse.
Credibility is a combination of expertise and trust. While scientists persist in thinking that they should be trusted because of their expertise, climategate has made it clear that expertise itself is not a sufficient basis for public trust. The fallout from climategate is much broader than the allegations of misconduct by scientists at two universities. Of greatest importance is the reduced credibility of the IPCC assessment reports, which are providing the scientific basis for international policies on climate change. Recent disclosures about the IPCC have brought up a host of concerns about the IPCC that had been festering in the background: involvement of IPCC scientists in explicit climate policy advocacy; tribalism that excluded skeptics; hubris of scientists with regards to a noble (Nobel) cause; alarmism; and inadequate attention to the statistics of uncertainty and the complexity of alternative interpretations.
The scientists involved in the CRU emails and the IPCC have been defended as scientists with the best of intentions trying to do their work in a very difficult environment. They blame the alleged hacking incident on the “climate denial machine.” They are described as fighting a valiant war to keep misinformation from the public that is being pushed by skeptics with links to the oil industry. They are focused on moving the science forward, rather than the janitorial work of record keeping, data archival, etc. They have had to adopt unconventional strategies to fight off what they thought was malicious interference. They defend their science based upon their years of experience and their expertise.
Scientists are claiming that the scientific content of the IPCC reports is not compromised by climategate. The jury is still out on the specific fallout from climategate in terms of the historical and paleo temperature records. There are larger concerns (raised by glaciergate, etc.) particularly with regards to the IPCC Assessment Report on Impacts (Working Group II): has a combination of groupthink, political advocacy and a noble cause syndrome stifled scientific debate, slowed down scientific progress and corrupted the assessment process? If institutions are doing their jobs, then misconduct by a few individual scientists should be quickly identified, and the impacts of the misconduct should be confined and quickly rectified. Institutions need to look in the mirror and ask the question as to how they enabled this situation and what opportunities they missed to forestall such substantial loss of public trust in climate research and the major assessment reports.
In their misguided war against the skeptics, the CRU emails reveal that core research values became compromised. Much has been said about the role of the highly politicized environment in providing an extremely difficult environment in which to conduct science that produces a lot of stress for the scientists. There is no question that this environment is not conducive to science and scientists need more support from their institutions in dealing with it. However, there is nothing in this crazy environment that is worth sacrificing your personal or professional integrity. And when your science receives this kind of attention, it means that the science is really important to the public. Therefore scientists need to do everything possible to make sure that they effectively communicate uncertainty, risk, probability and complexity, and provide a context that includes alternative and competing scientific viewpoints. This is an important responsibility that individual scientists and particularly the institutions need to take very seriously.
Both individual scientists and the institutions need to look in the mirror and really understand how this happened. Climategate isn’t going to go away until these issues are resolved. Science is ultimately a self-correcting process, but with a major international treaty and far-reaching domestic legislation on the table, the stakes couldn’t be higher.
The Changing Nature of Skepticism about Global Warming
Over the last few months, I have been trying to understand how this insane environment for climate research developed. In my informal investigations, I have been listening to the perspectives of a broad range of people that have been labeled as “skeptics” or even “deniers”. I have come to understand that global warming skepticism is very different now than it was five years ago. Here is my take on how global warming skepticism has evolved over the past several decades.
In the 1980’s, James Hansen and Steven Schneider led the charge in informing the public of the risks of potential anthropogenic climate change. Sir John Houghton and Bert Bolin played similar roles in Europe. This charge was embraced by the environmental advocacy groups, and global warming alarmism was born. During this period I would say that many if not most researchers, including myself, were skeptical that global warming was detectable in the temperature record and that it would have dire consequences. The traditional foes of the environmental movement worked to counter the alarmism of the environmental movement, but this was mostly a war between advocacy groups and not an issue that had taken hold in the mainstream media and the public consciousness. In the first few years of the 21st century, the stakes became higher and we saw the birth of what some have called a “monolithic climate denial machine”. Skeptical research published by academics provided fodder for the think tanks and advocacy groups, which were fed by money provided by the oil industry. This was all amplified by talk radio and cable news.
In 2006 and 2007, things changed as a result of Al Gore’s movie “An Inconvenient Truth” plus the IPCC 4th Assessment Report, and global warming became a seemingly unstoppable juggernaut. The reason that the IPCC 4th Assessment Report was so influential is that people trusted the process the IPCC described: participation of a thousand scientists from 100 different countries, who worked for several years to produce 3000 pages with thousands of peer reviewed scientific references, with extensive peer review. Further, the process was undertaken with the participation of policy makers under the watchful eyes of advocacy groups with a broad range of conflicting interests. As a result of the IPCC influence, scientific skepticism by academic researchers became vastly diminished and it became easier to embellish the IPCC findings rather than to buck the juggernaut. Big oil funding for contrary views mostly dried up and the mainstream media supported the IPCC consensus. But there was a new movement in the blogosphere, which I refer to as the “climate auditors”, started by Steve McIntyre. The climate change establishment failed to understand this changing dynamic, and continued to blame skepticism on the denial machine funded by big oil.
Climate Auditors and the Blogosphere
Steve McIntyre started the blog climateaudit.org so that he could defend himself against claims being made at the blog realclimate.org with regards to his critique of the “hockey stick” since he was unable to post his comments there. Climateaudit has focused on auditing topics related to the paleoclimate reconstructions over the past millennia (in particular the so called “hockey stick”) and also the software being used by climate researchers to fix data problems due to poor quality surface weather stations in the historical climate data record. McIntyre’s “auditing” became very popular not only with the skeptics, but also with the progressive “open source” community, and there are now a number of such blogs. The blog with the largest public audience is wattsupwiththat.com, led by weatherman Anthony Watts, with over 2 million unique visitors each month.
So who are the climate auditors? They are technically educated people, mostly outside of academia. Several individuals have developed substantial expertise in aspects of climate science, although they mainly audit rather than produce original scientific research. They tend to be watchdogs rather than deniers; many of them classify themselves as “lukewarmers”. They are independent of oil industry influence. They have found a collective voice in the blogosphere and their posts are often picked up by the mainstream media. They are demanding greater accountability and transparency of climate research and assessment reports.
So what motivated their FOIA requests of the CRU at the University of East Anglia? Last weekend, I was part of a discussion on this issue at the Blackboard. Among the participants in this discussion was Steven Mosher, who broke the climategate story and has already written a book on it here. They are concerned about inadvertent introduction of bias into the CRU temperature data by having the same people who create the dataset use the dataset in research and in verifying climate models; this concern applies to both NASA GISS and the connection between CRU and the Hadley Centre. This concern is exacerbated by the choice of James Hansen at NASA GISS to become a policy advocate, and his forecasts of forthcoming “warmest years.” Medical research has long been concerned with the introduction of such bias, which is why they conduct double blind studies when testing the efficacy of a medical treatment. Any such bias could be checked by independent analyses of the data; however, people outside the inner circle were unable to obtain access to the information required to link the raw data to the final analyzed product. Further, creation of the surface data sets was treated like a research project, with no emphasis on data quality analysis, and there was no independent oversight. Given the importance of these data sets both to scientific research and public policy, they feel that greater public accountability is required.
So why do the mainstream climate researchers have such a problem with the climate auditors? The scientists involved in the CRU emails seem to regard Steve McIntyre as their arch-nemesis (Roger Pielke Jr’s term). Steve McIntyre’s early critiques of the hockey stick were dismissed and he was characterized as a shill for the oil industry. Academic/blogospheric guerilla warfare ensued, as the academic researchers tried to prevent access of the climate auditors to publishing in scientific journals and presenting their work at professional conferences, and tried to deny them access to published research data and computer programs. The bloggers countered with highly critical posts in the blogosphere and FOIA requests. And climategate was the result.
So how did this group of bloggers succeed in bringing the climate establishment to its knees (whether or not the climate establishment realizes yet that this has happened)? Again, trust plays a big role; it was pretty easy to follow the money trail associated with the “denial machine”. On the other hand, the climate auditors have no apparent political agenda,
are doing this work for free, and have been playing a watchdog role, which has engendered the trust of a large segment of the population.
Towards Rebuilding Trust
Rebuilding trust with the public on the subject of climate research starts with Ralph Cicerone’s statement “Two aspects need urgent attention: the general practice of science and the personal behaviors of scientists.” Much has been written about the need for greater transparency, reforms to peer review, etc. and I am hopeful that the relevant institutions will respond appropriately. Investigations of misconduct are being conducted at the University of East Anglia and at Penn State. Here I would like to bring up some broader issues that will require substantial reflection by the institutions and also by individual scientists.
Climate research and its institutions have not yet adapted to its high policy relevance. How scientists can most effectively and appropriately engage with the policy process is a topic that has not been adequately discussed (e.g. the “honest broker” challenge discussed by Roger Pielke Jr), and climate researchers are poorly informed in this regard. The result has been reflexive support for the UNFCCC policy agenda (e.g. carbon cap and trade) by many climate researchers that are involved in the public debate (particularly those involved in the IPCC), which they believe follows logically from the findings of the (allegedly policy neutral) IPCC. The often misinformed policy advocacy by this group of climate scientists has played a role in the political polarization of this issue.. The interface between science and policy is a muddy issue, but it is very important that scientists have guidance in navigating the potential pitfalls. Improving this situation could help defuse the hostile environment that scientists involved in the public debate have to deal with, and would also help restore the public trust of climate scientists.
The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America” by Chris Mooney. Efforts are made to “dumb down” the message and to frame the message to respond to issues that are salient to the audience. People have heard the alarm, but they remain unconvinced because of a perceived political agenda and lack of trust of the message and the messengers. At the same time, there is a large group of educated and evidence driven people (e.g. the libertarians, people that read the technical skeptic blogs, not to mention policy makers) who want to understand the risk and uncertainties associated with climate change, without being told what kinds of policies they should be supporting. More effective communication strategies can be devised by recognizing that there are two groups with different levels of base knowledge about the topic. But building trust through public communication on this topic requires that uncertainty be acknowledged. My own experience in making public presentations about climate change has found that discussing the uncertainties increases the public trust in what scientists are trying to convey and doesn’t detract from the receptivity to understanding climate change risks (they distrust alarmism). Trust can also be rebuilt by discussing broad choices rather than focusing on specific policies.
And finally, the blogosphere can be a very powerful tool for increasing the credibility of climate research. “Dueling blogs” (e.g. climateprogress.org versus wattsupwiththat.com and realclimate.org versus climateaudit.org) can actually enhance public trust in the science as they see both sides of the arguments being discussed. Debating science with skeptics should be the spice of academic life, but many climate researchers lost this somehow by mistakenly thinking that skeptical arguments would diminish the public trust in the message coming from the climate research establishment. Such debate is alive and well in the blogosphere, but few mainstream climate researchers participate in the blogospheric debate. The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers in this, and other academic climate researchers hosting blogs include Roy Spencer, Roger Pielke Sr and Jr, Richard Rood, and Andrew Dessler. The blogs that are most effective are those that allow comments from both sides of the debate (many blogs are heavily moderated). While the blogosphere has a “wild west” aspect to it, I have certainly learned a lot by participating in the blogospheric debate including how to sharpen my thinking and improve the rhetoric of my arguments. Additional scientific voices entering the public debate particularly in the blogosphere would help in the broader communication efforts and in rebuilding trust. And we need to acknowledge the emerging auditing and open source movements in the in the internet-enabled world, and put them to productive use. The openness and democratization of knowledge enabled by the internet can be a tremendous tool for building public understanding of climate science and also trust in climate research.
No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.” Scientists and others that say this seem to want to advance a particular agenda. There is nothing more detrimental to public trust than such statements.
And finally, I hope that this blogospheric experiment will demonstrate how the diversity of the different blogs can be used collectively to generate ideas and debate them, towards bringing some sanity to this whole situation surrounding the politicization of climate science and rebuilding trust with the public.
First, thanks to Dr. Curry for the essay and to Anthony for publishing it. An open dialog would be a good thing at this point.
You say one of the problems is “communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public”.
As I’m sure you’ll see from the comments here, many of the “realists” as I like to call them, come from educated backgrounds. In my own case, I’m no scientist, I just have a BS in Business/Computer Information Systems and spent 20+ years in the field. I’m certainly no expert in climate science, but then again, I’m not stupid.
Some of the most important work in science is what you refer to (condescendingly?) as the “janitorial work”. Let’s focus on this, as it is probably the most important aspect of science, albeit not as much fun or thought provoking as the analysis and investing.
It appears that much of the measurement data is suspect at best (see surfacestations.org). Then we see this sloppy data handled even more carelessly by undocumented computer code performing undocumented “corrections” to the sloppy data. Top that off with ignoring most if not all standard software development practices and poor record keeping. I don’t even have to begin to understand the climate science when what we have is garbage in/garbage out.
You also write that “The climate researchers at realclimate.org were the pioneers”. I’ll give that one to you. Gavin Schmidt and friends at Realclimate.org are responsible for moving me off the fence onto the realist side of the debate. Let’s hear what Gavin has to say in comment 89 in the post titled “On Replication” here:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/02/on-replication/
“My working directories are always a mess – full of dead ends, things that turned out to be irrelevant or that never made it into the paper, or are part of further ongoing projects. Some elements (such a one line unix processing) aren’t written down anywhere. Extracting exactly the part that corresponds to a single paper and documenting it so that it is clear what your conventions are (often unstated) is non-trivial. – gavin]”
How on earth is anyone, including Gavin, supposed to replicate the work that ended up in a paper? We should just do this based on trust?
On your comment: “No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.” Why aren’t all the climate scientist controlling the dialog? Here’s what Obama said recently:
“I want to just be clear that the science of climate change doesn’t mean that every place is getting warmer…But…Vancouver, which is supposed to be getting snow during the Olympics, suddenly is at 55 degrees…”
And here’s the video of Obama:
I assume Holdren, Chu, Jackson and others are keeping him straight on the science, right?
As to all the IPCC “gates”, these were not mere typos or citation errors. They were “sexed” up alarmists claims that have been repeated over and over again.
And lastly, there is no “monolithic climate denial machine”. The realists are mostly individuals participating in a grassroots effort in an attempt to bring some sanity to the situation, and remove politics from the science.
Best regards.
Anthony,
Thank you for posting this! In the spirit of open debate, just a thought here, what any chance we might be able to post Lacis’ most recent comments on Revkin’s blog, in his 4 (or was it 5 part) clarification on his IPCC SPM review statements? This last one has really nothing to do with his review statements anymore, but outlines what he considers “fact” regarding the underlying physics of AGW: http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/lacis-at-nasa-on-role-of-co2-in-warming/
Dr. Curry,
I applaud you for your efforts here – I believe this is *THE* most even handed and informed overview of the issues in play that I have seen yet, quite possibly from either side of the debate.
One thing I’d like to say here: I believe there is a fundamental miss (and associated opportunity for discussion) around the “denial machine” and associated money trail areas of your write-up. For both sides of this issue, and IMO any issue with political consequence, there will always be moneyed interests trying to interject themselves into the conversation and to lend support, with or without the consent of the scientists involved, to the side of the issue that is in their interests.
There was a post here quite recently where Anthony’s “ties” to the Heartland Institute (he attended a skeptics conference they sponsored I believe, nothing more – nothing less) were discussed, as well as Dr. Singer’s “ties” to “Big Tobacco”. There seems to be a quite common mindset, which I believe is an unscientific political judgement, that all you have to do is play connect the dots (no matter how poor the case may be) to any number of “unsavory” types (Big Oil, Corporations, Conservatives, etc) and once you make a connection… anything is fair fame for the scientists in question.
On one hand, it seems that WWF, Greenpeace, and any number of pro-AGW interests are allowed free reign to directly fund research and “cheer-lead” specific pieces of research without reproach… they are even allowed to have their research included in the IPCC reports. On the other hand not only is, for example, the Cato Institute all but blacklisted from the IPCC conversations – anyone who has any contact with them is automatically listed as a shill.
There seems to have been a very fundamental value judgement made before you sat down to write this as to which scientists and advocacy groups are acceptable, and which ones are not. So as great an attempt as was made here, to be honest in dealing with all the issues in play, both sides of the advocacy issue need to be examined and not glossed over.
Until the scientific community confronts the issue of how to deal with both sides in politically sensitive areas of research and scientific debate, I believe we will see things like this happen again. In short, the treatment of Lindzen, Christy and Spencer – among others – needs to be addressed.
Regards
I would like to add that the crucible of high profile, costly and potentially life altering science is why there are standards on the scientific process. The ‘heat of the kitchen’ is no excuse for the mess the AGW folks put THEMSELVES into. No one demanded they sacrifice the scientific method, nor did anyone demand they corrupt the peer review process. They did this because, deep down, they knew they did not have the data and theories to hold up to scrutiny.
When they realized they erred, they tried to hide it under hyperbole and misleading graphs. That is one thing everyone on the AGW needs to face, and that is not something the ‘skeptics’ caused by challenging the science and math.
Luboš Motl (08:16:29)
I came to this issue almost by accident last year, being made wary by the “science is settled” and then by the obvious propaganda at sites run by Royal Society, UK Met Office and other similar institutions. As a newcomer when you first realize there is a problem, and you look around for facts, it is quickly obvious that something very weird has been happening, and you want to understand it. But trying to dig deeper, you begin to understand that you are at the tip of an iceberg that must have taken 30 years and billions of pounds to build. For people like you (and may of the other contributors here) who have fought against this scandal for many years, it may be difficult to appreciate just how shocking and confusing it is for new people. Anyway, from this perspective, I just wanted to thank you for your lengthy comment that I found extremely useful in filling in some of the blanks for me. It clearly needs a lot more than words to put this one right, and to re-establish the proper place of science within society.
“No one really believes that the “science is settled” or that “the debate is over.”
I’m sorry Dr. Curry, but that is wrong on your part or wishful thinking. Many believe the science is settled, or at least profess that in public. That includes many in the scientific community who should know better.
Kudos to Dr. Curry for having the … err..guts to make the effort, it is appreciated and of value.
The whole bag of #$%! can be summarized by:
A model must provide accurate (statistically significant) predictions based upon it’s foundation premises. If it cannot, it must not be used to provide guidance or information.
Data and it’s accumulation must be clearly obtained and unequivocally pristine in all aspects of it’s manipulation and presentation. It must also be available, WITHOUT ALTERATION, for any and all that wish to peruse and use it for whatever purpose.
A policy must be based upon sound information (that can only come from reliable data) and ellicit results that are both cost effective and effectual in their required execution.
Just science, at it’s best, is all we need and exactly what we demand.
It seems a sensitive and considered piece looking at how things developed and the complex issues involved.
“and that makes you a DENIER buddy” — I stll remember the first time someone called me that.
It is too late for “trust”. Climate science has burnt that bridge. Perhaps the academics are not interested. They get to carry on with their jobs. And I don’t know whom was responsible for instgating and leafing the spread if the “denier” accusatory tactic. Perhaps some fancy PR firm?
Bias is always possible. The only “trust” can come from checks and balances. The “pure” academic is a myth. We don’t implicitely trust the police. Procedures, councils, and independent bodies are not just preferable, they are ESSENTIAL.
Credibility means someone believes you, and for that, we need reasons to believe you. Expertise is just one reason. It is not sufficient. We need social systems and councils and bodies to check and verify. That is really what it comes down to.
Scientists need not worry about this. It is a matter for oversight bodies to arrange multiple independent teams of scientists to pursue different lines of research.
As it has been said, these poor scientists found it stressful dealling with the problems of public relations and political advocacy and public education. It is simply a matter of REMOVING those things from their job function. Let the independent system of checks deal with the final conclusions and political implications. Get the scientists back to the lab and please keep them there.
I read this “experiment” with as open mind as possible, but came away feeling very let down.
I would like to know in what terms this missive is termed an “experiment”, without the appearance of being patronized please.
What I also read :
1. The methods of delivering the message on AGW was and remains flawed, Disheartening
2. The process of “auditing” is still treated as a separate and distinct function carried out only by “the opposition.” I will shy away from one of the two words that needs to be completely removed from anyone’s vocabulary who is involved in the science (the use of the word “skeptic” has no place in this dialog as well, and I will not debase myself by using the other).
The process of discovery and comprehension is partly based on “audit” and is entirely missing from the methodology and process of climate science today. Audit is part and parcel and should have been welcomed all along.
3. Hubris. Accept the concept that climate scientists really don’t understand all of the systems that affect our climate, and you should state that emphatically.
My advice: Do better
I hope Ms Curry’s idea of the masses being “uneducated” is dispelled by now.
Arrogance and ignorance has never been a good combination. Even if you are an IPCC member.
I wish Dr Curry would stop talking about that “big oil” nonsense. Energy providers greedily jumped on the AGW bandwagon, because the money offered by various states in the form of “green” incentives – that’s the reason for financial resources for sceptics drying out. And these state incentives are as immoral as any of the “big oil’ actions of the past.
In my country, the electricity produced from photovoltaics MUST be mandatorily accepted at all times and that for the price 14x higher than 1 kWh from the “non-renewable” sources. And the price is given by the law and there’s no possibility of lowering it now.
Let me share another vulgarity that is completely unnecessary (in the manner of alarmist or denier labels) and which you provide in your post: “Big oil funding for contrary views”.
Logically and practically, this is no different than targeted funding from agenda-driven government agencies, or “Big Government funding for compliant views”. We all know that funding is needed for all investigation and advocacy – this smearing by association is unsophisticated and plebian, and almost demands an in-kind response. And it presupposes that energy producers have no legitimate place in the debate. That is simply elitist thinking.
Can we please make a point to avoid these pointless and flame-feeding biases creeping into the science literature?
IsoTherm (09:12:26) :
davidmhoffer (07:50:31) : “When I see a sceptic make a mistake, the heat from other sceptics is often worse than from the warmists. ”
David that is absolute rubbish and you know it. I’ve been on boards with people talking complete nonsense and not a word was said against them so long as they were cheering the right team>>
A board that has no dissenting opinion on it is just a cheerleading section not a discussion forum. Choose boards where debate is permitted and happens, and my assertion is true. Throwing data points into the discussion that are not representative of the issue being discussed does not invalidate the original data set or the conclusions drawn from it.
Dear Judith,
Nice effort but you miss the key points almost entirely. The issue is not credibility at all, it is in fact expertise, and the bought and paid for government scientist community lacks it.
What you call “auditors” are actually BETTER scientists. That is why the “debate” was declared over, by your side, years ago. Your side could not win the global warming debate with outsiders, because the outsiders had (and continue to have) superior scientific expertise, in statistics and modeling, in computer science, in meteorology, and in every environmental sub-discipline.
That’s a bitter pill to swallow, I know. It requires some humility and frank self-appraisal on the part of government scientists (including Academe). But it is the truth nonetheless.
The politics cannot be ignored, either. It is disingenuous to refer to free-minded, free-living people as “libertarians”. The struggle is not between political factions; it is between tyranny and freedom. It’s an old struggle but still fundamental to human society and civilization today. The statist classes are enemies of fundamental human rights. If you don’t get that, you don’t understand the big picture at all.
I appreciated the content and tone of her post. It seemed a very reasonable, well-thought out review of the path she assumed started with industry-backed denialism which turned into healthy skepticism.
Which leads me to my one criticism. Her initial assumption as to how it all started may be clouded by the historically more obvious monied “deniers” having access to media, while several a-political skeptical and educated people who publicly questioned anthropogenic climate change from the outset were just not noticeable, or worse, not invited to the opening round. They were around, but no one was paying attention. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
And that is where the discussion of how to do this debate should begin. Why were skeptical opinions tossed out so readily in the beginning? Dare I say, there was heavy political agenda already bedded down in the laboratory on the AGW side way before the “denier machine” was accused of political agenda.
OK, now that I got my pet peeves out, I do applaud Dr Curry’s recognition of what has happened, and the role of educated watchdogs. I especially like her summation – the science is anything but settled. At least she has outlined a path to help it become settled through the public debate which is a unique treasure of the internet and blogs.
Cheers, AJStrata
Way to many comments to read them all, so I hope these points are repetitive.
Dr. Curry, please consider the following points:
1) To regain trust, the public has to believe there is no political agenda behind the science. This will not happen until climate science disintangles itself from left wing politics. Similarly, skeptical side wont be fully credible until it can disintangle itself from right wing politics. Unfortunately, in both cases, the political types can attach themselves to whatever issue they want, so it is somewhat out of the control of those doing the research. That being said, all efforts should be made to create a wall between politics & research.
2) To be a scientist is to be skeptical. All advancement of science is formed by questioning – ie being skeptical. To advance climate research, both sides of the argument need to be skeptical. This means both sides need to acknowledge that the other side has valid points to make & neither side has a lock on the answers.
3) The public needs to be told the true uncertainties & our limitation of knowledge – by both sides of the debate. People are not that stupid. When they are told there is no doubt that we can forecast the climate in 100 years but local weatherpeople cant get the forecast right 7 days out, the public feels like there is a hidden agenda & there is inherently a lack of trust that develops out of that.
4) There needs to be recognition in academia that the world is not the same place it was 25 years ago. The old model of peer reviewed science in professional journals needs to be updated. There has to be a recognition of the web, blogging and the fact that there are many qualified “peers” outside the traditional editiors of technical journals that have smart, well thoughtout ideas to contribute to the advancement of science. I don’t have an answer for what the right modern model is, but there needs to be a component of fully transparent, web based information, including raw data and methods so that others can independently test hypotheses. This would go a huge distance is creating trust among the blogosphere, which would then be transferred on to the general public
5) The public must believe that scientist are only motivated by the pursuit of truth, regardless of what the answer may be. Because of many factors, including IPCC, the CRU, NASA GISS, RealClimate, Al Gore, etc, the public believes the answers are determined before the research starts. That fundamentally destroys trust. All these institutions need to be dismantled to start the process of building trust again.
6) The alarmist / disaster / end of life as we know it scenarios have to be removed from the dialog. Scare tactics may work on the most ignorant in society, but the rest of us know those are P1 scenarios at best – the odd of them occurring are next to none. Again, people arent stupid. When they here these ridiculous predictions, the natural reaction is to think – I’m being conned – which is true. Again, this fundamentally reduces trust
I know that these suggestions would be unpopular with both sides of the political spectrum, but that’s the point – science should have nothing to do with politics.
Dr. Curry, I hope you find these comments useful and can be used both to create public trust and advance the study of climate science for the benefit of all.
I look forward to hearing your response to these suggestions, as well as many others left on this blog.
“The failure of the public and policy makers to understand the truth as presented by the IPCC is often blamed on difficulties of communicating such a complex topic to a relatively uneducated public that is referred to as “unscientific America” by Chris Mooney.”
So the problem isn’t that the IPCC is wrong. The problem is that the message isn’t being conveyed in a proper way or that the messengers are the wrong messengers.
How is Dr. Curry’s diatribe anything more than a recommendation on how the “truth as presented by the IPCC” could be more effectively communicated??
I see no value in what Dr. Curry has written here.
She needs to write to each of leaders of the U.N. member nations telling them that the science ISN’T settled on AGW.
The brand ”IPCC” cannot be restored to its former value. You can only lose your virginity once. You can always stitch it up and spread your legs for the world to see and hope for resurrection. But public relations doesn’t work quite like that as far as IPCC is concerned.
What is important is the degree of ”innocence” involved for the persons having the trust.
Mercedes Benz launched an ”environmentally friendly” model which happened to tip over if you were not careful at the steering wheel. Pictures of the tipping car were broadcast worldwide. Still not much damage was done to the ”Mercedes Benz” brand. An important reason was that persons interested in cars had a lot of experience of cars in general, many millions were or had been owners of Mercedes cars etc.
Comparatively few have any substantial experience of science. Practically no one has experience of climatology which includes scientists in general. So the trust from the general public is pretty much mythical/childish in character and if lost not much can be done to restore this kind of trust.
Dr Curry reminds me of a school teacher who has to fill the full 50 minutes. It would be better to write like a school teacher who has to explain something during the 10 minutes break.
Dear Dr. Curry,
Last summer when you posted your paper on ClimateAudit on the likelihood of an above average hurricane season for the US based on certain el nino conditions I tried to engage you in a discussion of probabilities for your forecast. You declined the invitation.
My thoughts on the matter of predictions and markets are that if there is a real market in something then there is little public outcry or need for massive public expenditure to take action as a functioning market will discover a price whereby private action can be taken.
Imagine for a moment that your paper of last summer had the full backing of the IPCC, NOAA, al gore, jim hansen etc. Perhaps the political response would have been to evacuate gulf coast communities, activate the national guard, build emergency levies etc. Of course if the forecast did not materialize then all of this would be a gigantic waste of resources. If there was a good market for hurricane landings then your skillful or not forecast need not be transmitted as a paper but merely acted upon by yourself or your backers. This would be reflected in the market and would become a signal or not for others.
I submit that the most effective way to ‘solve’ the climate ‘problem’ is simply to create a forward market in temps or sea levels or both. In this way if you think the earth is going to heat up drastically or drown you can protect yourself by purchasing climate insurance. If you think that all of the science is faulty you will happily take the other side of the bet. In this way we would quickly get a good read on where the forecast science really was cause at the end of the day no one is going to plunk down hard earned cash on what they believe is a losing proposition.
Do you think it is a coincidence that I can not find a single person to take the other side of a .2 degree C per decade wager even when the central IPCC forecast is well north of this? Why is it that no climate scientists with great forecasting abilities wants to bet real dollars against a complete amatuer on something they claim should be a bet very much in their favor?
Please do not use french abbreviations like “No. One believes the science is settled”. In english it is “Nr. one ….” or currently just “The Won knows the science is settled”.
Dr. Curry could improve her next essay by not wasting time either mentioning or posting on Climateprogress.
The big names currently involved in climate research are compromised by their lies and deception. These people will not be trusted again easily. I will always have my doubts about them.
The others, the not so big names, who went along with the lies and deception and who accepted them with little or no question are also compromised. i will will not trust them again either.
When you are compromised, you must redeem yourself. It is possible that they can do this. but they have to try first.
It is disturbing that, although Judith Curry seems to “get it” more than most climate scientists, she seems to be more in the mode of improving the image of climate science rather than improving the substance. They just have a communication problem, in her view. No problem with the science. This may not be a fair characterization of her views, but that is the impression this article leaves.
“Credibility is a combination of expertise and trust”
No, credibility is a combination of evidence and verifiability. Trust has no place in science.
If a researcher has published a paper and failed to publicly archive their methods, data, code and the rest, and then refuses to do so when asked, their research is rendered unverifiable and valueless to all. “Trusting” their results is not how science works.
The real problem in climate science today is that it has gotten sloppy and allowed the breakdown of the system of checks and balances that is intended to maintain the availability and verifiability of the evidence supporting the claims. Most journals have policies requiring the archival of data, code etc., but few, if any, enforce them. This is the sloppiness that has allowed the publishing of valueless research. This is the problem that must be corrected if climate science is ever going to regain any credibility.
If climate scientists believe that anyone is going to simply trust their claims, they are not truly scientists. Scientists produce verifiable results.