From the UK Express
PRINCE CHARLES ON CLIMATE CHANGE: GLOBAL WARMING SCEPTICS ARE ALL LIARS
Charles, who has campaigned on global warming for more than 20 years, said: “I have watched with growing dismay and alarm the glee with which the sceptics have leapt upon the recent news stories that question the science that climate change is man-made and suggesting it is nothing more than a myth.
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| Prince Charles: ‘I’m not willing to play Russian Roulette over climate change’ |
“Well, if it is but a myth, and the global scientific community is involved in some sort of conspiracy, why is it then that around the globe sea levels are more than six inches higher than they were 100 years ago?
“This isn’t an opinion – it is a fact.”
He added: “And, ladies and gentlemen please be in no doubt that the evidence of long-term and potentially irreversible changes to our world is utterly overwhelming.”
Charles spoke after arriving in Manchester by Royal Train pulled by a coal-fired steam locomotive, named the Tornado, which was rebuilt from a 1948 design.
Read the entire article at the UK Express
First let me say that I like trains. But Charles apparently has no clue about how such a pronouncement might be viewed by commoners when he’s apparently doing nothing to curb his own carbon footprint. Will Jim Hansen denounce him for riding on a coal powered “death train”?
Charles also seems to think that sea level is a static feature of our dynamic Earth. Here’s a few reminders about sea level change the prince probably hasn’t discussed in polite conversations. He might also benefit from a visit to Israel, where sea level has been variable for the last 2500 years.
Here’s the last 9000 years which appear almost flat in the graph above due to scale used:
In our current era, while sea level has in fact been rising, continuing the trend started thousands of years ago, it recently appears to have slowed a bit:
Clearly we live in the golden age of relative stability, but Earth is very seldom that way. The rise of man just happened to get lucky…thanks to a warming world.
But who to believe, a coal powered prince or your own lying eyes?
To: Mods
Re: kadaka (15:37:07)
And now I see you’ve un-snipped and replied.
Oh well, so it goes.
@ur momisugly Leigh (20:48:16) :
Unfortunately Prince Charles is the Prince of Wales, where I believe the sea level is rising. If he was the Prince of Scotland he might find that sea level is falling i.e. the land mass is still rising after removal of the ice sheet from the last ice age.
Actually Leigh most of Wales was covered by ice during the last ice age. It is true that Britain seems to be tilting with the south east of England sinking and Scotland rising but I am not sure about the parts in between. (Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable about British geology than I am can enlighted us). Therefore I am not sure what the overall picture in Wales is but in at least some places the land is still rising.
One of the latest articles in this blog is entitled “Israeli study shows variable sea level in past 2500 years”. Stacey (03:02:27) posted an interesting comment on that article pointing out that Harlech Castle in North Wales was constructed with a sea gate to make it easy to receive supplies by boat but now over 7 centuries later the sea level even at high tide is a long way below the gate.
http://www.castlewales.com/harlech.html
I have seen the case of Harlech Castle mentioned in other places in discussions about climate change and sea levels. Prince Charles will have seen the castle on some of his visits to North Wales but I wonder if anyone has ever drawn his attention to the sea gate and what it tells us about changes in sea level?
And this is the future of cap-and-trade:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/156332/Hackers-used-spoof-EU-website
What is most worrying about this story, is not the totally predictable hacking, but the question of why the EU has carbon credits to trade in the first place. Surely if we are going to have such ‘credits’ to sell, these should belong to the individual nations, which each has its own energy policy, degree of reliance on fossil fuels etc etc ?
kadaka,
Thank you for the link. I was previously unaware of the deeper meanings behind Charles’ aspirations of being a feminine hygiene product.
RichieP’s link really is very important.
The British Council was set up to promote British culture overseas: it used to take travelling troupes of actors form the Royal Shakespear Company round Africa, for example, and give poetry readings in Russia or lend paintings to exhibitions, as per its charter.
Now it’s spending billions of our money on finding and paying ‘advocates’ for AGW to lobby their own governments to influence policy! Who thought up this wheeze, and how on earth did MPs allow it to happen? Incredible. God it makes me so damn angry. And needless to say that Pillock Kinnock (EU stooge) has been involved.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100025163/why-does-the-british-council-spend-money-on-climate-change-propagan
kadaka (14:49:43) :
Allan M (13:48:37) :
I used to hang around with these sort of people (I even know a guy (David Lorimer (haven’t seen him for years)) who wrote an adoring book about the Right Charlie). They talk a lot about a ‘holistic approach.’ But how can they have a holistic approach when they don’t understand 90+% of what they are talking about?
Once you’ve adopted a holistic approach, which can be thought of as trying to understand the whole picture, the first step is asking “What all don’t I know?” If you are honest in the approach, not understanding tends to correct itself, as the individual pieces won’t fit together if you don’t know what they are and how they work.
To put the term in context, this site is a testament to a holistic understanding of climate. The “other side” said “Ah-ha! It must be the CO2!” and devoted themselves to justifying that conclusion. Here, we can see how complex the issue is and are trying to work out the relationships of all the interconnected systems, accepting we don’t know everything about them and may not even know all the systems that exist. Besides, that’s what the pursuit of science is all about. First step is saying “I don’t know.” The next step, at least as critical, is saying “But I intend to find out.” Accept the ignorance, honestly work to correct the ignorance, and it ceases to be a problem. Even among those sort of people.
Having spent a lot of time recording their conferences for a friend, I wish I could be as optimistic as you as to their motives or results. Mostly they just trawl around for things that fit their agenda.
Prince Charles is German. All the Royal Family are. Can’t we send them ll back to Germany? Even Prince ‘Philip the Greek’ is of German lineage.
“Here’s a few reminders…”
“Here’s the last 9000 years…”
Both of these sentences refer to plurals, so “here’s” should be “Here are…”
I’d just refrain from using “here’s” at all 😉
Charles, an autocrat of the first order.
Phil Hackett (18:41:41) :
Prince Charles is German. All the Royal Family are. Can’t we send them ll back to Germany? Even Prince ‘Philip the Greek’ is of German lineage.
What’s your point?
Most of the people of southern and eastern England are Anglo-Saxon. Do you want to send them back too? Then there are the Danes in the north east – They are a dodgy lot too. Some of Prince Phillips ancestors are Danish – so off they go too. Then there are those infernal Scots who raided and pillaged over the borders. Restore Hadrian ’s Wall perhaps. But wait – it’s too late. Broon has taken over Westminster. All is lost!! He has capitulated to those Germans in Europe. They have taken over and — Britons will be slaves.
Wattsupwiththat does not usually print ad hominem attacks. Come on, moderators, the standards are slipping.
Way to much disrespect and criticism of HRH going on here.
Have a little sympathy folks, this guy is the result of generations of inbreeding.
Give him a break – besides, it is nice to have walking and talking examples of the idiocy of hereditary monarchies.
HRH is a useful idiot.
Re: Gillian Lord (21:37:46) :
“Wattsupwiththat does not usually print ad hominem attacks. Come on, moderators, the standards are slipping.”
Come on Gilly! Moderators gotta’ have some fun too. I’m guessing one of their recurring chuckles comes every time they see yet another use of that once obscure but recently beaten to death phrase “ad hominem”. Prince Charles is just one of those messengers who invites his own slaying. Any time either his or Jim Hansen’s head pops up, folks just naturally think “Whack-A-Mole”!
Another good reason why, in retrospect, we here in the US were quite fortunate to have discarded the British monarchy. The Prince of Wales has unfortunately nothing else to do but dodder around griping about skeptics.
leftymarti:
“it is nice to have walking and talking examples of the idiocy of hereditary monarchies. ”
The surviving monarchies in the world include Britain (and some of the members of the Commonwealth), Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Holland and Japan. All those are far more democratic than the average republic. They also enjoy higher environmental standards than the average republic.
This does have some relevance to arguments over climate change. Obviously the more democratic a country is the more the government will respond to issues over which the population feel strongly. Climate change is one such issue which would be fine if the science really was settled. If the science is dubious then the public might be mislead and the government make the wrong decisions.
Before the climategate scandal there was the danger of a vicious circle in which in many countries politicians and the public would increasingly spur each other to take action to curb climate change that would be damaging to the world economy and to the health and welfare of many of the world’s poorest people.
Fortunately for Prince Charmless, possessing bucket-loads of common sense and a modicum of intelligence isn’t a prerequisite for ascending the English Throne. However, I’m hoping the next succession will skip a generation.
Right Charlie is a national embarassment. He should stick to chatting up his petunias…
I think his highness deserves the title the Carbon FootPrince.
I should have included Spain in my list of democratic monarchies. The country was a fascist dictatorship from the time of the Spanish Civil War until the restoration of the monarchy and democracy.
@ur momisugly Larry:
“… we here in the US were quite fortunate to have discarded the British monarchy …”
Slavery was abolished throughout the British Empire long before it was abolished in the United States.
The most democratic of the three countries in North America is a monarchy (for the present, at least)!
Even before Canada became self-governing it provided a safe home for people fleeing persecution in the United States such as Loyalists, Native Americans and Blacks. Canada never experienced McCarthyism. It never had a civil war, but it did enter both world wars at the beginning instead of waiting like the United States to be attacked first.
Whatever the Prince said about a tampon, he must have been talking about the iTampon, the successor to the iPad.
But he is only a prince. Let us not forget that Evan Thomas of Newsweek called Obama “almost a god”. And that Chris Matthews answered: “Yeah, yeah.”
If a public figure spends a lot of time talking about the climate in public, what we can expect from him is a bit of knowlege about the basic facts. And the fact is that the sea level has been rising for many, many centuries. And that could not have been caused by anthropogenic CO2.
OK, this ad hominem thing. Charlie offers no evidence at all for his increasingly ignorant and deluded statements. No debate is permitted with him, except vicariously (as here). It’s therefore not possible or allowed to directly question his assertions and falsehoods and yet the only reason this throwback to the Middle Ages receives the publicity he does is because of his descent from robber barons of that period. Frankly, that only leaves ad hominem lines of argument and, boy, does he provide the ammunition for them. Warmists are quite happy to attack Monckton ad hominem (you know, the swivel eyes, big oil funding etc etc), even though (or perhaps especially because) he actually can rout them in scientific debate (not that they’ll face him much). Like someone said in the DT’s Geoffrey Lean article yesterday:
“You’ve had it all your own way for forty years Geoffrey – you gave no quarter, expect none now. “
Just swap Charlie for Geoffrey. And, speaking as a Welshman, he’s not the Prince of Wales – the last one was killed fighting the English a long time ago.
yeah yeah yeah… Charlie is a clueless, chinless wingnut, with a track record of being either utterly wrong, or utterly irrelevant. Nuff said, move on.
The interesting bit for me was the steam loco. Towards the end of their lives on British Rail, steam locos actually became very efficient – take the 9F freight engines for instance, the very pinnacle of steam engine design. I’m willing to bet that using a coal burning steam engine is a more efficient way of moving people and things, than an electric loco, when you take into account that you have to create the electricity in the first place, usually by burning either coal or gas, and then transmit that power to the loco, with all the losses therein, plus the cost and effort of manufacturing and installing all the overhead lines, control gear, maintenance of the system etc.
Note: It wasn’t ‘rebuilt’ – it was built from scratch, as new.
Is there any more antiquated idea than royalty? Oh yeah–royalty speaking. Shame the populace doesn’t step ‘en fetch no mo….
When has a member of royalty ever relinquished their crown to their child without dieing first people? The line of succession for the next ruleing monarch begins at the point of the predecessors death. Elizabeth II is not going to wake up some day and say “You know I’m kinda tired of all this being Queenie so I think it’s time to give Charlie a chance.” Liz will be Queen untill she breaths her last C02 and the only way it will skip passed Charlie to Willie is Charlie kicks the bucket before Liz. Not insanity, alzheimer’s nor a colostomy bag will keep her greasy inbred Hanoverian Nazi hands from relinquishing the crown. Liz is Ol skool and the Divine Right of Kings is still alive and well in her batty head.
” RichieP (02:57:09) :
Warmists are quite happy to attack Monckton ad hominem (you know, the swivel eyes, big oil funding etc etc), even though (or perhaps especially because) he actually can rout them in scientific debate (not that they’ll face him much).”
I know you mean it sarcastic, but why not call it what it is: Graves’ Disease. Even warmists should know that it is not correct to attack somebody because of his illness, and A as well as Rahm E have been told how not to use the R-word.