Jan 8, 2010
From Bishop HillThis morning I contacted Norfolk Constabulary with a view to finding out if they had yet ascertained whether the breach at the Climatic Research Unit was a leak or a hack. I have just received a response which is frankly amazing:
Norfolk Constabulary continues its investigations into criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia. During the enquiry officers have been working in liaison with the Office of the Information Commissioner and with officers from the National Domestic Extremism Team. The UEA continues to co-operate with the enquiry however major investigations of this nature are of necessity very detailed and as a consequence can take time to reach a conclusion. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.
The National Domestic Extremism Team? Words fail me.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Curiously enough, the Iron Duke’s horse at Waterloo was named “Copenhagen”, which a DT reader pointed out is a “dead horse”.
Get this: Hadley was leaked before it was ‘hacked’. Paul Hudson, weather presenter and climate correspondent for the BBC posted on November 23 on his blog, that whilst he was busy performing his forecasting duties, he had been sitting on the Hadley information since … October 12 (!). He promised to comment on his page as soon as he could free up some time. The story broke only on November 19! The discrepancy has never been explained, until today. Climategate was leaked before it was hacked. When Hudson didn’t do anything with the information, the whistleblowers – in the run up to Nopenhagen – had to take other measures to break the story. Read it all in the Homeland Security News Wire below. Should the BBC take down the page, we have a screenshot.
Homeland Security News Wire: “Climategate evidence suggests release was a leak- Climategate – Outside hacker, internal mole or whistle-blower ?” http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/climategate-evidence-suggests-release-was-leak?page=0,0
Alexej Buergin,
Yes, actually I’d like to send Mann to the Moon. I was quickly corrected and groveled for it, but as I explained up @20:59:22, I got my W’s mixed up. IIRC, it was the only misteak I’ve made.
“Alexej Buergin (04:52:13) :
“CrossBorder (19:26:19) :
‘Smokey (18:11:35) :
I look forward to Mann meeting a new Iron Duke at his own Wellington.’
I thought Napoleon met the Iron Duke (of Wellington) at Waterloo!”
England used to send certain people to Australia, and Smokey wants to send Mann even a bit further to New Zealand. This way he can ride a cable car, look at Thorndon and Kelburn, and learn about how not to measure temperature.”
Yeah, cost me a whole lot more than a stolen loaf of bread!
Another Brit
“As a British citizen, I abhor today’s politicians, but it is my country and I am proud of it, and proud of the many times it has stood against tyranny in the past.”
Smokey
” Most Americans look upon Great Britain with fondness and respect, and I think most Brits look upon America like proud parents whose offspring has exceeded their expectations.”
Such mutual admiration of each other notwithstanding, it would be helpful to slow down and consider whether any nationalist pride or love you might feel for your country is truly warranted.
I am not the one to look around for historical reparations of any sort but if the present police state Britain aims to regain lost glory by seed-bombing the entire world with alarmist AGW ideas, there is something not to be proud about, in the present.
And that offspring that the UK feels so proud about, aren’t the proud citizens of that country the same ones who voted GW Bush back to power after he had invaded Iraq hunting for fictitious WMD using the precautionary principle? Nice example of using an opportunity to fight tyranny there.
I do agree with not feeding the food fight. And like mentioned, I join with you in condemning the odious tendency to obtain reparations from today’s society for past mistakes. I can’t even understand the thinking that goes on, except maybe as a means to obtain financial gain. But bloodshot eyes sometimes obscure what is right in front of us. Present day society might be carrying out actions which you may be proud of, or give you no reason to be not proud of, but things may look different under the lens of history. Just pointing it out that’s all.
Cheers
National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit, you guys in the UK are so lucky. We don’t (yet) have one in Canada. I’m jealous — NOT!
Richard Wakefield
2010/01/09 at 6:39am
“National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit, you guys in the UK are so lucky. We don’t (yet) have one in Canada. I’m jealous — NOT!”
Canadian Security Intelligence Service
http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/prrts/trrrsm/index-eng.asp
Domestic Terrorism
While CSIS dedicates most of its counter-terrorism resources to religious extremism, which the Government of Canada considers to be the most serious threat to the safety of Canadians, the Service also continues to monitor individuals and organizations that might be involved in other forms of terrorism, such as:
* state-sponsored terrorism;
* domestic terrorism (which includes the threat or the use of violence by groups advocating for issues such as the environment, anti-abortion, animal rights, anti-globalization, and white supremacy, and the dissemination of militia messages by groups in the United States); and
* secessionist violence.
C’mon, c’mon. We all know that the butler did it.
In 1992, KGB Chief Yevgeni Primakov admitted to an audience of students from the Moscow State Institute of International Relations who were considering employment with the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service that the Soviet regime had mounted a propaganda campaign against American scientists. Primakov’s frank admission was reported in Izvestia:
“[KGB Chief Primakov] mentioned the well known articles printed a few years ago in our central newspapers about AIDS supposedly originating from secret Pentagon laboratories. According to Yevgeni Primakov, the articles exposing US scientists’ ‘crafty’ plots were fabricated in KGB offices.”–Izvestia (3-19-92)
You all should really consider that you are being used by the FSB and Russian oil and gas oligarchs who rule Russia.
I suspect that the so-called Climategate scandal is evidence that the polonium-packing Russian FSB, not the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit (CRU), is up to KGB-era tricks. So far, I have written four articles about the theft of e-mails from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia, U.K.
My first article about the connections between Tomsk hackers and the FSB was posted about a week before the British press discussed this possibility. Now the Russians claim the Chinese did it., but the Russian media has barely reported this. The Russian media sounded proud of the FSB-backed “Tomsk hackers. Russian media sounds a lot like the “denialist” bloggers. You might want to think about why that is the case.
Here is my most recent article.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2010/01/tomsk-hackers-part-iii-fbi.html
What next, CSI: East Anglia?
Think about what the KGB admitted when they were trying to seem like they were on-board with the “glasnost”:
“[A]rticles exposing US scientists’ ‘crafty’ plots were fabricated in KGB offices.”
Russians manipulated information about AIDS and mental illness because it served their purposes. However, 65% of Russia is permafrost and they are studying why it is melting and releasing methane.
I think these CRU scientists are being victimized by the FSB. In Russia this is called “kompromat” and “active measures.”
One Russian scientist named Sergei Kirpotin said it is clear that this hacking was clearly an “order” and a “provocation.” That’s a pretty brave thing to say in Russia, and he was not quoted anywhere in the world except by Russian Greenpeace.
These nasty allegations about CRU scientists by people who are not scientists and do not understand the context of the e-mails sound just like defamatory articles in the Russian media about scientists the regime has persecuted in the past.
I think the FSB is using “conservative” bloggers who do not accept the consensus on AGW.
Here is an article about what Dr. Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk State University said about the hacking. Why didn’t anyone in the entire world write what he said except Russian Greenpeace? This hacking must be sort of scary to him because of the Tomsk connection.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2009/12/meet-russian-scientist-from-tomsk.html
Just remember this amazing admission by the KGB:
“[A]rticles exposing US scientists’ ‘crafty’ plots were fabricated in KGB offices.”
These are the people who made up a fake mental illness so they could jail dissidents and who claimed the US Army made AIDS to kill blacks.
Do you really want to attack the CRU scientists when you don’t understand what the e-mails are talking about?
FSB is counting on your scientific ignorance, but Russian buildings are cracking and falling because the ground is melting.
Russia specialist Paul Goble has written about the possible consequences of global warming in Russia. It’s not good news. Goble has also written about the history of Tomsk hackers.
@ur momisugly Snapple: clutching at straws, this believer is. It’s the KGB and their ‘dirty’ oiligarchy that did it. You sound like the latter day McCarthy of “Dangerous Climate Change”.
When the Russians think they can’t deal with something, they hide it from their people. They don’t want to admit they can’t fix a problem.
After Chernobyl, they had quacks on TV tell people in those areas to put pitchers of drinking water in front of the TV so rays from the TV could take out the radiation.
The regime knew better, but they didn’t want people to know they couldn’t solve the problem.
Remember what the KGB said when they were trying to look like they were going to reform:
“[A]rticles exposing US scientists’ ‘crafty’ plots were fabricated in KGB offices.”
The KGB just wanted everyone to distrust America. But the victims were black people who became distrustful. Even today in America some blacks aren’t careful about AIDS because they believe the government is trying to kill them. This was not the KGB’s goal, but it was the result.
Finally, the US told the Russians to stop the AIDS propaganda or we would not help them with AIDS research. Russian doctors and scientists were anxious for cooperation to cure this disease, so the propaganda stopped.
Soon the Russians may be scared. They will need to deal with the melting permafrost.
Maybe the FSB will admit:
“[A]rticles exposing CRU scientists’ ‘crafty’ plots were fabricated in FSB offices.”
@Capn Jack (23:05:07): “The only thing they will accept from the public is evidence and testimony. In Australia this is how a police, must police. Same as the UK. I don’t know much about the US . . . . . Haven’t we got a big enough conspiracy without blackballing the Plods and the E-Spooks[?]”
Well said. Thanks for addressing my question @Clif C (21:30:48)
Here’s another: Has any member of the public testified (made a formal complaint to the police) about alleged FOI lawbreaking, etc?
Just because we find the idea of a foreign hack bad for our side, we shouldn’t dismiss it. The Chinese are notorious for sponsoring extensive world-wide hacking. The Chinese premier refused to attend the last-minute conference to try to salvage Copenhagen, and repeatedly had his representative at it say NO. The e-mails were sent to Tomsk from a site in Malaysia that is used by the Chinese. Some bigshot interviewed by the BBC about a week ago, who may have inside knowledge of where the investigation is heading, said it was a foreign plot. And, if the Chinese were behind this, it’s likely that the UK gov’t. will hesitate to let its officials make that accusation–which fits in with this investigation dragging on, and with this non-governmental extremism team being brought in.)
=======
Incidentally, that BBC reporter who a poster here said received the hacked e-mail in October has been misunderstood. What he was trying to say is that he was forwarded, by one of the team, as a normal FYI thing, a few of the e-mails that were later leaked, and that as a result he could vouch for their authenticity.
Cassandra-
You are only calling names, not providing evidence. I have a degree in Soviet/Russian studies.
Have you read Paul Goble’s articles on climate change in Russia and about the Tomsk hackers?
“[Goble] served in various capacities in the U.S. State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency and the International Broadcasting Bureau as well as at the Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.”
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/
Am I the only one chuckling at the delicious irony of a Police Unit, set up to counter the extremists created by the CRU alarmism, now stepping in to help investigate “crimes” against that same CRU?
The Russian FSB claims they investigated the hacking and that the Chinese did it. The British investigators have not said who it was.
The Chinese angle was barely mentioned in the Russian media which shut up when the FSB said everyone should stop saying the FSB were the culprits. Also, the Russian media isn’t going to applaud the Chinese intelligence.
Until then, the FSB role had been extensively reported. Some articles seemed proud of the FSB. Mostly the articles defamed the CRU scientists and didn’t tell what they said the e-mail about the “trick” means. It reminded me a lot of past KGB campaigns against inconvenient scientists. The Russian articles sounded a lot like “denialist” bloggers.
You should hear yourselves like I hear you.
I don’t think it was the Chinese because they openly say that all their great historical eras coincide with warming. The Chinese have never said they want to do much to curb warming. Why should they mount a big operation?
The official Russian view is that AGW is a fact but that they will deal with it by adapting. They are not sure of how bad the consequences will be for Russia. They like to put a smiley face on this problem because they don’t know what they will do if the permafrost turns into swamp.
When something bad is happening, they don’t like to tell. Like they didn’t tell about Chernobil blowing up. Like Stalin didn’t tell right away that the NAZIS had invaded.
Here is some information about how the Russian media reacted to the FSB claim that the Chinese hacked the CRU computer.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2009/12/tomsk-hackers-and-russias-fsb-part-ii.html
Stealing computer information is a serious crime. The CRU’s opponents should argue with scientific arguments. Threatening scientists is a serious crime. The FBI is investigating threats against scientists. It’s a kind of terrorism. It’s like what they do in Russia. I don’t want that in America and the UK.
These are the same kind of creeps who threaten scientists like Sakharov in the former USSR. They called his wife the “Jewess” who was manupulating him. The KGB would make everyone hate his wife.
Since Sakharov was a hero who had made the hydrogen bomb for the USSR, they tried to malign his family with antisemitism. They even poisoned his grandchild. Their children and grandchildren went to the US to be safe, I think.
Here is some information about the FSB claim that the Chinese are the hackers.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2009/12/tomsk-hackers-and-russias-fsb-part-ii.html
Here is an article I wrote about FSB and Tomsk hackers. This was about a week before the British papers wrote about the possibility that the FSB was behind this.
A lot of points I made turned up in those British articles. Probably those papers read what I read, not what I wrote. Maybe your intelligence told the papers about Tomsk hackers. I read about Tomsk hackers from from Paul Goble.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2009/11/russias-hacker-patriots-embarrass.html
Cassandra Troy (05:33:45) :
Agreed, the Paul Hudson involvement has never been resolved. I am not sure that he received the full data drop. It could be that he was only “copied in” and/or “forwarded” the emails that criticised his article “Whatever happened to global warming?”
The interesting comment from Hudson is that he stated that some of the emails in the data drop were “genuine” as they were the same as he had received in October.
Surely, to be able to make that statement he had to know who had “copied in” and/or “forwarded” them to him in October? He does not refer to the October emails as being hacked.
Hudson has to know who in “The Team” was concerned about the reaction to his article.
Time will tell, I am quietly confident that the police investigation will reach a conclusion. What we need to look out for is how their lords and masters, the politicians, handle the police findings. The vested interests in AGW of the LibLabCon is the concern. Not one of the UK potential legislators is even mentioning that maybe, just maybe, in the least, there is a need to do due diligence.
What’s the chance of the election being called before the investigation is completed?
Stephen Brown (14:49:05) :
The majority of the comments here display a basic misunderstanding of how policing in England works.
Reply:
Thank you Mr. Brown. One of the thing I like most about WUWT is that there is usually someone around with concrete knowledge and they are willing to correct false assumptions.
Roger-
I think the British will tell what happened. They told what happened with the polonium. They made things very hot for the Russians.
I think the British will tell who victimized their scientists.
I am hopeful that new technologies like “carbon capture” will help solve this problem.
I think that people should read what the CRU scientists said their e-mails meant. I am going to reserve judgement until the scientific investigation is released.
Also, if you read the Chinese and Russian government spokesmen, even they seem to believe that there is warming. They just don’t want to pay a lot of money to solve the problem. They want to develop their industries.
They do have smart scientists, however, who could help.
I think these hackers picked materials that would appear incriminating when taken out of context. In Russia this is called kompromat.
Snapple (08:48:12) :
Stealing computer information is a serious crime.
“Roaches blame light switch operators in warehouse food heist”
The CRU’s opponents should argue with scientific arguments. Threatening scientists is a serious crime. The FBI is investigating threats against scientists.
Did you make a similar fuss when Tim Ball was getting death threats for his skeptical views?
Stop getting your knickers in a twist – you are turning into conspiracy theorists! I seem to remember the Information Commissioner being quite good on ID cards and internet data protection. Look him up if you can be bothered. His office promotes transparency and has quite a lot to do with the Freedom of Information Act.
On the face of it, somebody hacking or leaking e-mails is being quite naughty. If I did that at work (I work for a mid sized international company) I would be in trouble. I guess the real question is, does the UK public sector have a whistleblowing procedure? My company does, so if I felt something fishy was going on and I had no redress via my line manager or HR, I would have an officially sanctioned way of taking the moral high ground. I don’t know whether CRU scientists have that route.
It is possible that the National Extremism Wotsit (ridiculous name but probably well used to dealing with hackers) and the Info Commissioner will decide that a whistleblowing policy should be available to those who feel that the science has become more politilcally than data driven.
We shall see.
Craigo (16:30:02) :
You’ve read some of the emails and sensed the attitudes of the players. Now imagine you are a UK policeman doing your job sent to investigate this issue….
Reply:
ROTFLMAO As a lowly female with a BS in Chemistry I worked at an independent lab full of arrogant Phd’s who couldn’t find the door without a map but always insisted they were right no matter what the subject.
I think CRU may be in for a world of hurt. No wonder they got Jones out of there fast. I would really like to be a fly on the wall for some of those interviews….