Jan 8, 2010
From Bishop HillThis morning I contacted Norfolk Constabulary with a view to finding out if they had yet ascertained whether the breach at the Climatic Research Unit was a leak or a hack. I have just received a response which is frankly amazing:
Norfolk Constabulary continues its investigations into criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia. During the enquiry officers have been working in liaison with the Office of the Information Commissioner and with officers from the National Domestic Extremism Team. The UEA continues to co-operate with the enquiry however major investigations of this nature are of necessity very detailed and as a consequence can take time to reach a conclusion. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.
The National Domestic Extremism Team? Words fail me.
There’s no mention of security experts involved in the investigation only the FOI people and the “National Domestic Extremism Team” (whatever they are). But it would seem they’re not so worried about the mechanics of the leak/hack but about the contents of the documents. That’s very serious it would seem.
Quote : xyzlatin (12:52:58) :
“Now you know why the whistleblower will never come forward voluntarily. Britain is not free any longer. Read George Orwell’s book 1984 for more details of where Britain is headed.”
You are right on target.
Civil liberties and official dogma (AGW) are incompatible.
Best wishes for 2010,
Oliver K. Manuel
Smokey (18:11:35) :
I thought Napoleon met the Iron Duke (of Wellington) at Waterloo!
Stephen Brown. 14:49
I agree:
Once: Phil Jones was shunted aside. An investigation was required.
His mates done him no favors posturing here there and everywhere, internationally, it was a Russian hack job, Their privacy broken etcetera and so on, they were hacked.
Their safest option was context not international conspiracy.
International E- Security is a big thing and not an EU thing.
The released emails, code and money files have one thing in common, they were released as a FOI whistleblow.
We can all argue how we like, once Phil was shunted, this became a legal issue, this became a legitimate FOI review.
So two things had to happen, the FOI breach and the accusation of cyber terrorism as the Team have been fomenting have to be investigated.
Now I can’t say if it will be a white wash or not.
But these actions had to happen. Otherwise Phil Jones et al walk.
There has been major remark on this blog about whistleblower protections in the UK.
Me I’m surprised it’s been so long.
reliapundit (19:08:54)
Given all this interesting information, we presume that the part of the mandate of this unit is to investigate the Climatic research Unit on the basis of the emails which are now public, such as the evasion of legally binding FOI etc?
Despite Google’s denials it appears that they do actively manipulate their autosuggest results:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/08/google-censoring-islam/?test=faces
Probable manipulation related to the search term climategate appears to have ceased, as typing clim or even clmat now brings up climategate as the first suggestion, however the Fox News article definitely reinforces the contention that Google staff were actively manipulating autosuggest to try to slow the rapid spread of the climategate scandal:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/28/climategate-surpasses-global-warming-on-google-autosuggest-still-blocked/#more-13350
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/02/google-trends-on-climategate-show-public-interest-increasing-but-troubling-questions-loom/
It looks like Google is failing at the whole “don’t be evil” thing…
“Dude, look, it’s the National Domestic Extremism Team !! Are they going to, like, base jump and stuff?!? That is so totally AWESOME!!
30
Watts seems a bit of a dullard even by denialist standards. I’ve not been able to find anything on his educational qualifications. Does he even have a university degree?
Posted by: Giordano Bruno | December 29, 2009 3:39 PM
31 Giordano,
Not that lack of qualifications necessarily indicates low intelligence, but Watts has no degrees. His background is as a weather presenter. Nothing wrong with that either. We should be wary of the “argument from authority” trap. Posted by: TrueSceptic | December 29, 2009 6:03 PM
32
Mr. Bill – You have some pretense, I’ll give you that…
I’ve battled you and you groupies on Wiki for longer than I should have tried to in reality. The fact of the matter is that young minds (kids) view that info as neutral and “filtered” by responsible adults and I could not feel good about myself without trying to affect your obvious bias on global warming articles. [Have you really? As who? As to the substance: you are too vague: provide specifics -W]
I’m also the guy who said your time will come legally. You can’t support a pattern of data manipulation and misrepresentation as you have in the digital era without paying a price when facts clearly call into question your motivation and intent in retrospect. Your edits over “not peer reviewed”, when in fact the peer reviewed process on this subject was rigged internally – alone – alone should render you actions suspect. [Again, too vague. Which article? -W] Posted by: mkurbo | January 8, 2010 1:02 AM
33
> credentials
Zero Degree Weatherman?
Posted by: Hank Roberts | January 8, 2010 10:50 AM
34
I keep pointing out how effective the denial PR is in capturing the bulk of Google’s Image Search results — remember, the majority of voters in many elections is choosing by color and photograph associated with what they saw earlier. For a really good example of lying with imagery effectively, you won’t do much better than the uncited and unattributed stuff at agwdemotivated.blogspot.com, the website of one of the posters above. That site may well be the definitive answer to the Fermi Paradox.
Posted by: Hank Roberts | January 8, 2010 12:02 PM
35
Hank – So the expenditure of trillions of dollars worldwide directed by a railroad engineer meets with your “credentials” guidelines ?
Look, this particular issue (AGW) seems to have more than its share of academic credentials “sprinkled” all over it, but what it lacks is common sense. I have not seen Anthony Watts act in a dishonorable fashion from my interaction with the WUWT website. What I have seen is a common sense discussion on climate which is really all the world needs at this point.
On the other side of the coin – I have witnessed dishonorable action by Mr. Connolley at Wiki first hand many times. Actions speak louder than words (or in Bill’s case “wordsmithing”).
Posted by: mkurbo | January 8, 2010 11:16 PM
36
Bill – [“too vague”] Not really, maybe too general but you know where I’m coming from and we don’t need to rehash the hash we’ve already been through…
I acknowledge that you are a key player in a brilliantly designed strategy and movement based on an ideology referenced as AGW. But dear sir, at what price ? Look at all the time, energy, and funding that has been misdirected and wasted to date on this non-issue. The real problems that could have been addressed worldwide are the blood that will reside on your hands and the select few that misrepresented at such a high and constant level.
I don’t care for the games you play in cultivating/maintaining the Wiki AGW bias – period. It’s the kids in particular whose minds have been indoctrinated with the whole catastrophic planet warming, sea levels rising, polar bears dying, etc. and that’s not a right minded activity for true purveyors of science. Posted by: mkurbo | January 8, 2010 11:24 PM
Sorry, forgot to post the website for this exchange:
http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2009/12/poor_old_watts.php
I have formed the Climate Liason Intelligence Team. We prefer if you use the acronym, ……. 8^D
P Wilson (19:50:11) :
reliapundit (19:08:54)
“Given all this interesting information, we presume that the part of the mandate of this unit is to investigate the Climatic research Unit on the basis of the emails which are now public, such as the evasion of legally binding FOI etc?”
“Well, Sir, until we meet again in New York, the case is sol-ved.” – Chief Inspector Clouseau
Feeling a bit mischevious this evening, …. Delete previous if you see fit, …. my apologies.
CrossBorder (19:26:19),
You are right, what was I thinking??
Answer: I wasn’t. Mea culpa.
@ur momisugly Stephen Brown (14:49:05 Jan.8)
“The majority of the comments here display a basic misunderstanding of how policing in England works. Simply by referring this matter to the NETCU gives the Norfolk Constabulary access to much more intelligence and investigative powers than they would normally have . . . . . The strongly Conservative Police Authority will have a big say in this. The Acting Chief Constable’s personal attitudes towards AGW are not known, neither are those of his Police Authority Members nor his MPs. However, it could be reasonably construed that there is a substantial degree of reluctance to their absolute acceptance of the AGW premise . . . . . .The Norfolk Constabulary will, I think, investigate the whistleblower with all due diligence. At the same time, however, I think that all other offences uncovered are also going to be fully investigated and that includes any attempt to avoid any FOI requests. Investigations into the maladministration of Government-provided funds, fraudulent presentation of data etc will, I am sure, follow.”
And he adds: “It will take a great deal of time and effort which the Constabulary can ill-afford . . .”
IF we accept Stephen Brown’s view (should we?),
how can we HELP the Norfolk Constabulary, monetary or otherwise? I’m not much up on constabulary budgets. Anyone know?
IF we take Stephen at his word, it sure wouldn’t hurt.
I’d say the National Domestic Extremist Team had to be brought in because the UEA CRU made the claim, also alleging previously that ~”National Security” was involved along with confidential agreements as excuses for not adhearing to FOI requests. The final excuse, ~”losing the data/stations” doesn’t play well against the first two excuses for the CRU here, imo.
Given the CRU’s allegation of crimes, I’d think the contents of the whole of CRU’s + ? computer bank would have to be looked at, to verify what was leaked and to compare it to what else was in there, for good or ill, that would give more evidence as to what might the crimes might be, and what in fact was not leaked. If non FOI info was not leaked +/- truely National Security related files, then that possibly puts a good slant on what was leaked as far as its criminality goes.
So I’d think the CRU would be the most worried, as someone else pointed out would likely result by the CRU’s having alleged a crime to begin with.
So the CRU might be only trying to play what might be its last tactical card before otherwise being the defendent after trying to: blame and vilify the leaker. I don’t see how any of the CRU’s excuses wash well for them, because they couldn’t back them up to begin with.
I wonder what Rod Serling would have made of AGW.
“Man is about to attempt to cool off what he believes is Anthopogenic Global Warming, or in layman’s terms, the human invention of fire gone a step too far.
What he doesn’t know yet, is that at the very same moment, nature has been preparing it’s own version of climate change. In a strange twist of fate, both arrive at the crossroads of time. Next stop, the Twilight Zone.”
Doot-deet-doot-dee….Doot-deet-doot-dee….Doot-deet-doot-dee….
Skreeeeeeee……….
“Meet Michael Mann, inventor of the Hockey Stick graph. Today, he’s finally going to see his dreams come true, only this hockey stick is turned upside down, and along with the rest of the world, there’s no handle on this one, no turning back. His critics have tried to warn of impending doom, as you will see them do in the final hours of a once-warm world.”
“We begins tonight’s story with a flock of reporters, eager to get the latest on when the global program is to begin.”
remember that the hockey stick investigation of the national academy of science was led by gerry north, somebody who previously co-authored papers with hockey team members.
therefore, another biased initialisation would indeed be disturbing.
They are officer’s under the Crown. I would say.
The only thing they will accept from the public is evidence and testimony.
In Australia this is how a police, must police. Same as the UK. I don’t know much about the US
Doesn’t the other side of the debate do enough of that big oil big tobacco conspiracy shite, name calling shite.
I like this blog because aside from some comments in the comment stream it takes a non dirty hands approach.
Willing to debate issues as issues.
I have been in the middle of one of these FOI messes before. This thing is an emotional, political and financial mess.
Laws broken, ethics missing. Money and Prestige and Jobs on the Line.
Yes Wiki failed, yes it may be that Google has been less than fair.
But the big Issues and main issues are.
Is the AGW movement corrupt. Has science been corrupted for political and perhaps malevolent purposes.
Side issues are side issues.
Haven’t we got a big enough conspiracy without blackballing the Plods and the E-Spooks.
The dice roll.
I remember reading a few years ago that medics were asked to stop using derogatory acronyms about patients in their case notes. One of them stuck in my brain – NFN – normal for Norfolk!
Back to the topic, if I were at the University of East Anglia I would be nervous about what I said to anyone while a police investigation is running. I assume that the investigation and the involvement of the National Domestic Extremism Team has spiked the timetable for the internal inquiry into the CRU. It sounds like a pigeon coming home to roost though – if you complain loudly enough that you have been hacked and you are a high profile team reliant on significant sums of public cash, don’t be surprised if there is a police investigation.
I’m inclined to believe that it might be Keith Briffa, for all the reasons that have been listed above. He has faced some difficult circumstances in his personal life, by all accounts, such as his own health and the loss of his mother. In my experience, these focus the mind with considerable clarity. Certainly, the emails show that he was not always comfortable with what was being asked of him and he might well have had enough.
If it was you, Keith, then you are an honourable man.
I’m sorry.
I have no doubt the local constabularies and even Scotland
Yard do efficient and effective work in a preponderance of
criminal cases.
However, can I recall one instance, the murder of Dr. David
Kelly, that was fraught with international military implications
and political entanglements, a non-existent inquest, and a
good investigative plastering over of the cracks by a
distinguished Lord.
This was another example of the local and district police
being “helped” by other (and in the early moments
unidentified) organizational personnel and entities.
The mainstream media took an nap on the details and the
final outcome, and the ultimate implications.
The result of the criminal investigation was pretty much the
outcome the Minister of Defense, the subordinate agencies
and their international military/intelligence counterparts
wanted to see.
“Move along, nothing to see here.” ruled the day.
Other than no body-under-a-tree, what’s all that different
about the Kelly case and release of the FOIA e-mails, data
sets and programs ?
Hopefully, the thousands of onlookers on blogs like WUWT
will make a difference in the focus and final outcome of
this “investigation”.
Maybe it’s Team America World Police in disguise? (Never saw the film actually but their reputation precedes them … )
OT
Watts up with the red dot in Florida????
http://mapcenter.hamweather.com/records/7day/us.html?c=maxtemp,mintemp,lowmax,highmin,snow
Most of you are getting too excited about this and jumping to wrong conclusions, remember what I said when the police first got involved. They took Phil Cheers down to the Police Station. They could have had a quiet word in his ‘shell like’, and found the whistleblower in a couple of hours, but they didn’t, they took him down town, which means he may well have been ‘Cautioned’ and interviewed on tape. Norfolk cops have taken a lot of stick about their competence in recent years, and they waited long enough to see that this was going to be big. They are getting others with more resources to look at this.
Our current rulers are inept, some are stupid even, and there’s an election due, they are not stupid enough to pillory a whistleblower right in front of an election. No, this investigation will take years, but may well get the right answer in the end – be patient
National Domestic Extremism Team…. Ah right. These guys identify the leadership of dissident groups and lable them “extremists” so that Special Branch can then fit them up for a crime of some sort, so as to break the focus of the targeted group…..
Better watch out Anthony, they’ll find traces of PETN on your “delete” key and we’ll all end up in th’ nick.