Jan 8, 2010
From Bishop HillThis morning I contacted Norfolk Constabulary with a view to finding out if they had yet ascertained whether the breach at the Climatic Research Unit was a leak or a hack. I have just received a response which is frankly amazing:
Norfolk Constabulary continues its investigations into criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia. During the enquiry officers have been working in liaison with the Office of the Information Commissioner and with officers from the National Domestic Extremism Team. The UEA continues to co-operate with the enquiry however major investigations of this nature are of necessity very detailed and as a consequence can take time to reach a conclusion. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.
The National Domestic Extremism Team? Words fail me.
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Meanwhile during all of this bureaucratic red-tape to an investigation which should be rather SIMPLE…. (i.e Fire Phil Jones and charge he and his team of scientific fraud)….
…Britain’s government (where they should really be stepping in) fails its citizens with not enough grit for the roads and gas reserves.
The CRU / UkMet axis of piss-poor science and modeling continues to do wreak havoc even more than the cold!
Today’s BBC news is shows the level of hardship ALL across Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8448095.stm
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
I contacted them at the end of November and got this this reply:
When I rang the mobile number Chris asked for my name, address, date of birth, occupation, employer, where and when I’d first heard of the incident, reason for the enquiry, what I was intending to do with any information I got etc.
I was, apparently, a “loose end” in their enquiry because the email address I provided when requesting information was uea@xxxxxx.xx.xx and they thought I might be attempting to pretend to be associated with the UEA because of this.
The good news (or bad news depending on how you consider it) is that Chris hadn’t heard of WUWT so Anthony isn’t a suspect.
If you all recall one way the warmists tried to portray climategate was as
cyberterrorism and character assassination.
I think it is instructive to see all the meme’s they have used to characterize their opponents.
1. Denialists ( accomplices to the holocaust)
2. Tobacco Shills ( merchants of death)
3. Cyber terrorists
4. Character assassins
Hmm. you see a common thread? Now, once they saw us in these terms.
Once they us as evil people. as criminals. Once they accepted those frames
what follows?
Well, two things follow:
1. Noble cause corruption or police misconduct. Here is what I mean. Once they saw us a criminal, then they really could go to any length to make their case against us. Hide exculpatory evidence for example — hide the decline.
manufacture evidence. etc
2. Vigilante Justice: Santer wants to meet us in a dark alley. DOS attacks
against CA.
These two types of behavior stem from the metaphors they live in. They see us as criminal. In fact Tamino (grant foster ) has actually used that exact word to describe us. is it any wonder then that they will do whatever it takes.
I bet the Extreme Team was requested by the CRU based on the idea that their lab was cyber-attacked. Don’t piss them off by complaining about them. If they are reasonable, they will find this whole thing irrelevant to their mission and walk away. OTOH, It would be interesting to see their chain of command to learn where politicians can intervene to force them to make a report one way or the other.
“Spartacus (14:39:53) :
@The National Domestic Extremism Team
I am Spartacus!”
No it’s: “I destroyed the dam.”
The National Domestic Extremism Team?
I guess it just depends on who are the “extremists”
The majority of the comments here display a basic misunderstanding of how policing in England works. Simply by referring this matter to the NETCU gives the Norfolk Constabulary access to much more intelligence and investigative powers than they would normally have.
An understanding of the politics and attitudes in play in this scenario is also important. Norfolk is predominantly a rural County with very conservative views. Hunting (of foxes with hounds, called The Hunt) is very popular but this has been banned by the present Government which is not very popular in the County. Five out of the eight Members of Parliament from this County are Conservatives (right wing). The acting head of the Norfolk Constabulary is Ian Learmonth
http://www.norfolk.police.uk/aboutus/ourpeople/dccianlearmonth.aspx
It is too complex to explain here but his ambitions appear to be limited to his confirmation in the post. The strongly Conservative Police Authority will have a big say in this. The Acting Chief Constable’s personal attitudes towards AGW are not known, neither are those of his Police Authority Members nor his MPs. However, it could be reasonably construed that there is a substantial degree of reluctance to their absolute acceptance of the AGW premise. The highly probable demise of the present governing political party here in the UK is also going to have a bearing on how this present Police investigation progresses.
The Norfolk Constabulary will, I think, investigate the whistleblower with all due diligence. At the same time, however, I think that all other offences uncovered are also going to be fully investigated and that includes any attempt to avoid any FOI requests. Investigations into the maladministration of Government-provided funds, fraudulent presentation of data etc will, I am sure, follow. It will take a great deal of time and effort which the Constabulary can ill-afford but I am sure that they are going to perform their appointed tasks to the best of their ability.
Last picture (7/7)
“The Met Office scientists compared two weather forecasting models, one that included contrail-induced clouds and one that did not. Their comparison showed that the clouds may have a net warming effect on the planet.”
If this has been set up by ACPO (a private for profit organisation) then this is a fascist outfit we should all be concerned about. I should think that it will be stuffed full of “Common Purpose” Graduates too.
Watch the Brian Gerrish videos exposing the communist Common Purpose inflitration of the police, universities, schools, hospitals, military, the BBC and most other areas of Government that are now being systematically taken out of direct state control and handed over to the “third sector”
This is an insidious creep of fascism, whereby the public purse pays for privatised quangos to implement policies of surveillance and control that have been agreed between various agencies and quangos, by Common Purpose graduates behind closed doors.
More on Common Purpose here: http://www.bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/video/brian-gerrish-state-nation
“I thought englishmen at once wrote to their MP about their concerns..”
I tried that with regard to this case, and got no reply – a new MP, obviously not wanting to risk her well paid job….
“Read George Orwell’s book 1984 for more details of where Britain is headed.”
No, we’re already there.
“I’m going to Norwich tomorrow to watch the mighty Canaries, so I’ll keep an eye out for any balaclava-wearing anti-climate change hacker terrorists.”
We are promised more Global Warming falling from the sky on Saturday, so you might be stuck here for a while…
ACPO is a private limited company which oversees the police in the U.K. They are (conveniently?) exempt from the FOI act so getting any information on them is difficult.
http://www.acpo.police.uk/default.asp
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Chief_Police_Officers
“Public Concern at Work (PCaW) is the independent authority on public interest whistleblowing. Established as a charity in 1993 following a series of scandals and disasters, PCaW has played a leading role in putting whistleblowing on the governance agenda and in developing legislation in the UK and abroad.”
Has anyone engaged the PCaW in the Climategate issue?
Read more: http://pathstoknowledge.net/2010/01/08/whistleblowing-in-the-public-interest
“TerryS (14:43:16) :
I contacted them at the end of November and got this this reply:
Dear Terry S………..
[…]
Tel: 0845 XXX XXXX. Mob: XXXX XXXXXX
email: xxxxxxx@norfolk.pnn.police.uk
P Save trees… is it necessary to print this email? ”
That’s too funny… printing out an e-mail is together with tarmacking roads one of the best known ways of carbon sequestration known to mankind!
Does this mean they now have reason to believe it was in fact “domestic”, despite the Russian angle?
For any non-Brits pondering this, you have to remember that our Nu labour government, as proxy for the EU, has for 12 years used Orwell’s “1984” as a blueprint, not a warning.
So, Europa is at war with CO2, Europa has always been at war with CO2 and AGW scepticism is Doubleplus ungood. Big Brother is watching you as you read this.
Never mind, have another glass of Victory Gin.
Cheers!
Dave B (13:58:16) A bureaucrat from a rural police force has fobbed off a member of the public with waffle and jargon. There’s an air of hysteria and panic round here that is making a laughing stock of the anti-AGW case and undermining the credibility of much excellent work.
JDN (14:43:35) : I bet the Extreme Team was requested by the CRU based on the idea that their lab was cyber-attacked. Don’t piss them off by complaining about them.
Richard Lawson (13:39:52) : The National Domestic Extremism Team was set up primarily to monitor animal rights activists [who] have been virtually wiped out over the last three years in the UK… it seems to me like they are now under-employed and looking to keep busy!
So, folks, keep yer hats on! I think Steve McIntyre snips speculations for a very good reason… their tendency to hype. Stay with facts… like good scientists.
Dave B said, “Get a life. … There’s an air of hysteria and panic round here that is making a laughing stock of the anti-AGW case and undermining the credibility of much excellent work.”
Is he serious? I see no hysteria or panic here, just mockery and astonishment. This is not something that makes a laughing stock of the anti-AGW case, but a laughing stock of the AGW side. “Oh dear! They brought in the National Domestic Extremism Team! Whatever shall we do?” We drip with sarcasm, scorn, and contempt at them, not hysteria or panic.
Stephen Brown gives valuable insight here. I too believe this investigation is a two edged sword. Shutting down developing world growth, funding third world dictators via ” climate debt”, and rorting the system to benefit the first world and the likes of Pauchari, Gore and corrupt climate researchers sucking on the teat of billions of dollars of research grants – now if that ain’t criminal, what is???
Would officers from the “National Domestic Extremism Team” hold the title of ‘Vicar Sargeant’ or ‘Detective Parson’?
Let’s not get too carried away with this. The police will do their job as well as they can. Let’s concentrate on the Science and, if needs must, the motives of those directly involved.
I have every confidence in our Police.
I don’t know about the rest of WUWT’s readers, but personally I’m extremely upset that no one has found the whistlebl–
Er, I mean I’m mildly upset, yeah, that’s it…well, more like I don’t care at all about it…um, about anything. Yeah, that’s me, no extreme views…just minding my own business…no complaints…middle of the road…
Say, did a black helicopter just fly across the page?
This is a better article, wow!
http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/2010/January/letters/What%20if%20they%E2%80%99re%20right.htm
What if they’re right?
8 January 2010
I enjoyed John Tulloch’s letter of 7 January (‘Copenhagen pantomime’), and in the interests of keeping the debate open over whether or not the unproven theory of anthropogenic global warming of the planet is real, I recently came across a very interesting report that puts a completely different light on the whole subject, if found to be true.
The climate change alarmists, a term I dislike only slightly less than deniers, are often gleefully pointing out that sceptical reports on the causes of climate change are not peer-reviewed. Anyone who actually read the hacked emails from the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit will know why; reports sceptical of anthropogenic global warming have been effectively frozen out of the peer review process by underhand methods that have no place in real science.
However Physics Reports, a peer-reviewed journal, has recently published a report by Qing-Bin Lu, a professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Waterloo. The report, fully reviewed and endorsed by his peers, convincingly links CFCs and the depletion of the ozone layer in the stratosphere to the warming that was seen in the latter half of the 20th century.
The interesting thing about this report is that it uses real world data to back up its claims, and not computer model projections. When you realise that the IPCC projections of climate change are based largely on land-based temperature records, you start to appreciate that the data they use is not as solid as they would have you believe.
There are problems with land-based temperature records. For a start the land of this planet covers only some 30 per cent of the total global area. In addition, urban heat islands, change of land use, etc, etc make land-based temperature records not the best option to use for something so important.
Weather balloons and satellites provide us with much more reliable temperature records. If the IPCC had used these readily available records they would be forced to admit that there has been only a very slight warming trend recently.
There’s another possible reason why the IPCC have not used these records. If the recent warming is due to the ‘greenhouse effect’ the troposphere should be warming faster than the earth’s surface. Weather balloons and satellites clearly tell us that it is not. Now, that’s something Al Gore doesn’t tell you.
But back to Qing-Bin Lu and his hypothesis that CFCs and the depletion of the ozone in the stratosphere is the reason for global warming. It’s every bit as good a model and theory as the one that says CO2 is the culprit. The peer-reviewed report is 57 pages long and extremely detailed. It’s at least worthy of further investigation. What if he’s right?
What if the 4,000 plus scientists from 106 countries, including 72 Nobel prize winners, who all signed the Heidelberg Appeal calling for a rational scientific approach to environmental problems, are also right?
What if the scientists who support the Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming, as well as those who support the Leipzig Declaration and of course, the Oregon Petition are right too?
That accounts for many, many thousands of respectable and responsible scientists, all saying there’s a doubt that needs investigation, and that there is no scientific consensus, and there never ever was either.
The main scientists leading the IPCC reports are the likes of Michael Mann and Phil Jones who have now been exposed as people who appear quite willing to stoop as low as it takes to get their own agendas acted on. That’s not science!
The leaked emails and documents from the Climate Research Unit in East Anglia have changed everything. Yes, there are plenty of influential voices telling us that whatever the emails say, they don’t affect the underlying science. That part is rock solid! That’s what we are told. Really? I mean, REALLY? So, what exactly does Kevin Trenbreth mean then when he replies to Tom Wigley, who has said he doesn’t agree with what Trenbreth says about the general lack of understanding of the global climate:
“How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!”
Those are the written words of a senior climate scientist, and nothing has changed since he wrote them. He is effectively saying that they can’t account for what is happening in the global climate system, and therefore if the world reduces emissions or reduces the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, they won’t be able to tell whether or not it was successful! And that’s just a small part of the leaked emails too.
Anyone who says that the leaked emails do not affect the underlying scientific theory of anthropogenic global warming is quite simply either a liar, or someone who has not actually read them. The emails and documents leaked from the East Anglia CRU expose the climate change science for what it is, and that is nowhere near the glitzy polished message of doom we have had crammed down our throats for too many years. The picture that emerges is one at best of scientists who really do not have a clue what is going on, and at worst of scientists deliberately fudging details and altering records to fit their own agendas.
Copenhagen certainly was a pantomime and thank goodness too! Meanwhile the UK basks in the coldest winter in decades, as does the US and most of Europe and Asia. Here in my part of south west Spain we have a forecast of snow for Thursday. It hasn’t snowed here in my village for almost 20 years. The weather forecasters say it is unlikely to lie as snow for more than 30 minutes, and it won’t be much either. But it will be snow! It may even make me feel homesick and wish for global warming.
Kind regards,
John Coutts
Spain
What is so “frankly amazing” about this?
This is an agency established years ago. They are investigating an incident referred as a “hack”, even by this very website, potentially of international origin.
There’s no conspiracy here, just people doing their jobs.
Do their oficers use badges and have hats and jackets with NDET on them?
What do you do?
I’m a NDET agent.
Far out.
There could be a very simple explanation for involving National Domestic Extremism Team: the Norfolk Police lacks computer competence, or their competence in such matters is very limited. So involving them could be a way to get extra computer investigation skills.
If it is a whistleblower (which I think is very likely) I think they should have a pretty good idea of who it is (or they’d have identified a smaller group of “suspects”).
And thay guy is a folk hero.
–Ahrvid