Jan 8, 2010
From Bishop HillThis morning I contacted Norfolk Constabulary with a view to finding out if they had yet ascertained whether the breach at the Climatic Research Unit was a leak or a hack. I have just received a response which is frankly amazing:
Norfolk Constabulary continues its investigations into criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia. During the enquiry officers have been working in liaison with the Office of the Information Commissioner and with officers from the National Domestic Extremism Team. The UEA continues to co-operate with the enquiry however major investigations of this nature are of necessity very detailed and as a consequence can take time to reach a conclusion. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.
The National Domestic Extremism Team? Words fail me.
Excellent information, thank you: http://www.clima-gate.com/?p=297
Capn Jack (23:05:07) :
“….But the big Issues and main issues are.
Is the AGW movement corrupt. Has science been corrupted for political and perhaps malevolent purposes.
Side issues are side issues.
Haven’t we got a big enough conspiracy without blackballing the Plods and the E-Spooks.
The dice roll.
I think the main concern by most people around the global is a politically motivated cover-up. The big politicians are all pro-AGW so there is justifiable fear that the rank and file police will be compromised especially when a high level elite group not subject to FOI is brought in. We do not even have the media around to help keep the politicians (and police) honest.
In my town the police are known to be dishonest. A neighbor, who is a forester, stumbled across evidence and had to bring in the national drug enforcement people to clean up the drug dealing. He is now pulled over and ticketed every time he tries to drive into town so he shops in the next county over.
The drug bust happened a couple of fields over from my house and was a sight to see. Helicopters and cop cars everywhere on a back country dirt road. I am very glad to see that three of the five drug pushers on the street are finally in jail.
Patrick Davis (04:09:39) :
Al has enough money and influence to make sure the “legal” system judges in his favour. It’s good to see you use the word “legal” rather than “justice”. There is no justice system anywhere in Australia, New Zealand nor the UK. Got money? No worries!
Reply:
You forgot the US of A. The O J Simpson and the Ted Kennedy trials come to mind.
Alexej Buergin (04:52:13) :
“…England used to send certain people to Australia, and Smokey wants to send Mann even a bit further to New Zealand. This way he can ride a cable car, look at Thorndon and Kelburn, and learn about how not to measure temperature.”
Nah, Lets send Mann and al Gore to the Artic to play with the polar bears. I am sure the bears would be delighted , a nice change from seal…
Frankly, as a British subject (not ‘citizen’, this is a monarchy you know), it grieves me to see what a barbarian dictatorship the UK has become. Heck, we practically invented western-style democracy… so sad that we’ve thrown it away. Between the socialists on one side and the religious on the other, there’s not much fun left to be had as a rational intellectual person.
Watch out U.S.A. – once they’ve subjugated the British Lion, you’ll be the next in line. Look after your precious Constitution; you’ll be needing it soon.
Snapple (07:16:14) :
“…Do you really want to attack the CRU scientists when you don’t understand what the e-mails are talking about?”
REPLY:
You are sending this junk to the wrong people. I suggest you look at this analysis as one example before you claim “you don’t understand what the e-mails are talking about?”
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/11420
or this:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/understanding_climategates_hid.html
As far as the KGB goes, according to an April 1994 article in the Wall Street Journal I read, the KGB not only funded but lead the USA activist groups. These are the groups pushing AGW, Animal Rights etc. or as some call them Watermelons, green on the outside red on the inside.
Maurice Strong the originator of all this AGW/green stuff was an admirer of the USSR and a frequent visitor. So sorry your suggestion just does not make much sense.
Veronica (09:21:52) : “I guess the real question is, does the UK public sector have a whistleblowing procedure? My company does, so if I felt something fishy was going on and I had no redress via my line manager or HR, I would have an officially sanctioned way of taking the moral high ground. I don’t know whether CRU scientists have that route.”
I get the impression that CRU is part of the UEA. Universities are not public sector; they are private sector, albeit subject to a lot of government regulations (eg. what fees they are allowed to charge students).
Generally, universities have tended to be bastions of academic freedom; unfortunately (well-kept secret, this!) there are really only two universities in England: the rest, including UEA, can’t really be trusted not to be politicised.
Snapple
“Russian media sounds a lot like the “denialist” bloggers. You might want to think about why that is the case.”
With every passing month more and more of the world is going to sound to you like denialist bloggers. You might want to think about why that is the case.
Snapple (09:11:45) :
I think the British will tell what happened. They told what happened with the polonium. They made things very hot for the Russians.
I think the British will tell who victimized their scientists.
[Wrong – the “Russians” merely placed in public what the “scientists” were hiding from the FOIA requests – the “legal arm of their own government in other words. The files were labeled and sorted (until released by the whistle-blower or by accident) BY the “scientists” and their computer people to HIDE the emails. “We” are the victims here, not the scheming “scientists” who are trying to hide their deceit.]
I am hopeful that new technologies like “carbon capture” will help solve this problem.
[Carbon capture is a waste of time, money, resources, steel and energy and effort that can be used to solve real problems, not waste energy burying plant food (er, high-pressure gasses) underground in extremely expensive high-pressure leaking non-enclosures of broken rock and faults.]
I think that people should read what the CRU scientists said their e-mails meant. I am going to reserve judgement until the scientific investigation is released.
[We know what the emails and programs did, referred to , and when they were written – and the programs are even more damning as evidence of fraud and deceit – and your claiming that the emails are being read or “were taken out of context” is a flatout lie and distortion. We do not need to “reserve judgment” in this matter, because we have seen the facts, and particularly when the “judges” are biased and pro-government money. If I witness a car running into the side of a moving train, do I need an accident investigation to tell me what happened and that it was the train’s fault that the car didn’t stop?]
Also, if you read the Chinese and Russian government spokesmen, even they seem to believe that there is warming. They just don’t want to pay a lot of money to solve the problem. They want to develop their industries.
[“Government” spokesmen in Russia and China do want the global warming money, but not the economic and food disruptions and havoc CAUSED by the frenetic anti-capitalist AGW fervor now running their American and European and UK (includes Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) ]
They do have smart scientists, however, who could help.
I think these hackers picked materials that would appear incriminating when taken out of context. In Russia this is called kompromat.
[Now that Reagan and Thatcher destroyed the communistic-led Soviet Union, their press and the press in Eastern Europe is free of such distortions and propaganda – thus, THEY (the Russian press) are a reliable source of non-communistic propaganda. However, the “western” press IS dominated 96% by liberal-socialist-democrat party hacks who DO not only tolerate communist and socialist propaganda, but deliberately promote communist and Euro-socialist propaganda, and who seek to revoke the “free press” of those who ARE trying to expose the hoax of global warming.]
Re: Snapple (08:48:12) :
Here is an article I wrote about FSB and Tomsk hackers. This was about a week before the British papers wrote about the possibility that the FSB was behind this.
—
What Tomsk hackers? You seem to be confusing files left on an open FTP server with Russian’s involvement in hi-tech crime. Why would Russian hackers implicate Russian people or systems when there are so many other places they could have dropped the file to divert attention? Presumably you also missed the comments from the FSB and Russia complaining about idiots attempts to blame them. This could I suppose be some elaborate double bluff to distract, but equally Occams Razor could apply and the simplest explanation is the truth. It was a leak.
Why look for some shadowy international conspiracy, when pretty much all the money and benefit is on the warming side. Based on track record, Russian criminals would love the idea of carbon trading because of the easy fraud potential.
Snapple, I happen to know someone who knows very well what is in those emails. Melting permafrost? Do you actually believe this has never happened in the history of the earth? As phlogiston pointed out more and more people are figuring out what has been going on. None of this has anything at all to do with the Russians, except as a data hub through which the emails were routed. Smoke and mirrors.
Not sure that Universities are private sector – at least they weren’t when I was there but that was a while ago (before tuition fees). Government funded, apart from Buckingham. All the staff, basically public sector.
Snapple (08:34:43) :
The Russian FSB claims they investigated the hacking and that the Chinese did it. The British investigators have not said who it was.
—-
Reply: Sorry, Snapple… from what I can tell and others have examined at length, it doesn’t appear it was an “outside” job. It has the tell-tale signs of being an inside job by some whistleblower(s). That it might have been facilitated with Russian and/or Chinese help may not be in question, either (Hey, a BBC guy got some of it a month before anybody else but didn’t do a thing with it, which is strange that he got it at all considering the Beeb’s staunch support of AGW), but my gut feeling is that it was an internal whistleblower that couldn’t stomach the deceit and perfidy of the leading players.
There may also have been a personal grudge involved, which wouldn’t surprise me in the least. Top scientists are like top models, top athletes, or top politicians–they all think they’re God’s gift to man when in reality they are quite often the reverse.
But we shall see. I expect to see ALL of the information at all the AGW study centers opened from top to bottom–all the emails, documents, computer code, databases, etc. You name it–it should be made public knowledge and accessible by all. Otherwise, don’t even think of basing global policy on something hidden, perhaps dark and mysterious, or whatever excuse they give it.
@Stephen Fisher Brown (14:49:05) :
“Simply by referring this matter to the NETCU gives the Norfolk Constabulary access to much more intelligence and investigative powers than they would normally have.”
False – they have no more powers than Norfolk Constabulary.
Also, you’re confusing NETCU – whose role is ‘Prevention’ and NDET – whose role is ‘Enforcement’, they are separate units, although both are within the NCDE/NDEU structure, there’s also the third piece of the PIE – ‘Intelligence’, which is the task of the NPOIU.
In order to make it easier for them and others to object to going along with Copenhagen, which they saw as counterproductive and wasteful.
Richard Saumarez (13:13:35) :
“grind slowly but they do grind small. If there has been a leak, they will find the leaker and charge him if there has been a crime. ”
Or ask Russia to extradite him
Snapple (08:34:43) :
“The official Russian view is that AGW is a fact but that they will deal with it by adapting. They are not sure of how bad the consequences will be for Russia. They like to put a smiley face on this problem”
They are not smiling, they are laughing (on the way to the bank, cashing their carbon credits).
Warmist peer reviewed methodology is taken from Lewis Carroll:
” I have said it thrice: What i tell you three times is true.” (The Hunting of the Snark)
“Domestic extremist campaigns rarely cause a danger to life, but in some cases the aim is to create a climate of fear.”
If climategate provides evidence that the CRU had, but in some cases the aim to create a climate of fear, then they are guilty.
If climategate provides evidence that the CRU had, indirectly caused a danger to life, or loss of, then they are guilty. Think of the deaths directly from the food to fuel biofuels scam.
In my view, the Norfolk Police are investigating the CRU, not a petty email theif. The stolen email did not cost trillions of dollars, and ? lives.
Come on. These guys are consumate professionals. What could go wrong?
“Where are these climatologists based and what do you think of their theory?”
[snip, bad boy ~ ctm]
I believe they have ruled out the typical basement hacker but not necessarily a “Mission Impossible” style professional intrusion team with months to let their mice run through the system.
These emails, including the computer code that created the “hockey stick” graph should of been in the public domain anyway and if they do find me guilty of this “hacking” offence of placing these into the public domain then I will use prior convictions by similar (and worse) offences that have resulted in barely a slap on the wrist.
This PO(litical)-LICE witch hunt unit has been set up and mandated by the fools in power who require heads to roll…. Will cost us, the taxpayer, millions and for what? The horse has bolted. Save energy. Sack these parasites! Get people in power who will end this Faustian madness.
Its time for the Gubmint to make cuts in unnecessary “authorities” do you not think? The citizens need to repay the National debt before any of this NWO garbage.
…and they call the BNP “fascists”.
>>Bureaucratic gobbly-de-gook, version 1.1
Not exactly gobble-de-gook.
In the UK, if you happen to say that you don’t like XXX religion or XXX lifestyle, you will find yourself in clink quicker than any murderer or rapist.
.
Philip T. Downman (8/1/10, 12:49:33) wrote ‘I thought Englishmen at once wrote to their MP about their concerns’.
I did write to my MP about my concerns, in November, soon after the story broke. I got an immediate and full reply, with the MP saying that he ‘shared my concerns’, and was one of the few MPs who had voted against the Climate Change Act at its second and third readings. I had not followed the voting, since I had pretty much despaired of anything that our political and thinking classes had to say about climate change. However, I was much encouraged by this, and wrote back to my MP to offer my (humble) congratulations.
My MP forwarded my list of concerns to the Vice Chancellor of the UEA. The Vice Chancellor replied to both my MP and myself (I imagine there were quite a lot of similar letters going out of the Vice Chancellor’s office at the time). It interested me that the first concern expressed in the letter was the illegality of the access to the emails, and the steps that were being taken to investigate this – ‘substantial resources from the Norfolk Constabulary are being brought to bear’. The second point of the letter concerned the establishment of an independent inquiry to ‘test the integrity of the data held and used by the CRU’. This review is to be led by Sir Muir Russell, previously Vice Chancellor of Glasgow University. UEA has asked that the review be completed by Spring 2010. The third point of the letter concerns how the CRU can justify its commitment to academic transparency. The fourth concerns restoring confidence in the CRU and its handling of data.
Forgive me if this has already been gone over on this blog. I thought it was at least worth noting that some MPs answer constituents’ letters, and some MPs are not part of the AGW media mob.
On this last point, it seems to me that the opinion polls are shifting relentlessly towards scepticism. There will come a point, I suspect, when opposition to the AGW argument (with all its attendant and pointless expenses) will become an electoral asset. The political classes are mostly heavily implicated in the pro-AGW argument, but they tend to be more concerned with being re-elected than with the climate (whatever it is doing), and if it starts to look as though climate skepticism wins votes, then things might change quite quickly. We are due an election in the UK soon, probably in May. I don’t think there is time for any dramatic changes on this front before that election, but I might be wrong. I hope I am.
Excuse my use of any language you felt was too coarse. This is your website and I respect your right to decide what is acceptable.
I’m certainly glad I reconsidered using other terms, which most would consider some of the most vulgar expletives. The subject matter angers me so much, I have to work to restrain myself.