From ABC/Reuters
China has told participants in the UN climate change talks that it sees no possibility of reaching an operational accord this week, an official involved in the Copenhagen talks says.
The official, who asked not to be identified by name, told Reuters that the Chinese had suggested instead issuing “a short political declaration of some sort”.
The statement from the world’s biggest polluter comes less than 24 hours before most world leaders are due to join the climate change talks in Copenhagen, where ministers and negotiators have made only modest progress at best.
Talks have been stalled by a widening rift between developing nations and the developed world.
Earlier Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said it was possible that there would be progress on other issues such as emission cuts during the next day or so.
“I have a sense that as more heads of government arrive here in Copenhagen, that we will make some more progress. But can I just say, as I said yesterday, success at this Copenhagen conference is by no means guaranteed,” he said.
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No word yet on if Obama still plans to attend at the end.
h/t to WUWT reader “Spence Canada”
The Chineese know they have a win-win situation which will allow them carte blanche whatever is decided in Cop15.
Divergent-thinking techie friend at home in NZ emailed thoughts to me yestrerday – “2.4 mil people here in a landmass slightly bigger than the UK, about 30% of this country is fully-forested National Parks. One little offshore volcano on its own, White Island in the Bay of Plenty (we have lots more and bigger), spewing out more CO2 in a day than we can stop emitting from all man-made sources in a year.
King Cnut used the incoming tide to demonstrate that natural forces were beyond his control. Would that current politicians were that smart or as honest and knowledgable.”
A scientist (a Rhodes Scholar) I worked with decades ago told me then
” science is roughly 99% boring stamp-collecting, always looking for a metaphorical Penny Black. Dangerous scientists are the dishonest ones who feel entitled to print their own stamps.”
“E.M.Smith (00:43:19) :
Graeme From Melbourne (20:37:19) : As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
Don’t worry, there is no need. A 10% inflation disappears most of the issue inside 2 presidential terms. No need for ‘going hyper’. Heck, just 50 years ago a loaf of bread was a dime, stamps were a nickel, gas was $0.25 a gallon and a car cost $1700. Now bread is $2 to $3, stamps are just under 1/2 buck, gas is $2 to $3, and a cheap car costs $17,000 with a good one $34,000. So in my lifetime the $Dollar of my youth has turned into a dime headed for a nickel. Who needs hyper inflation when this one works just fine and nobody even notices… Oh, and gold was $35 / ounce, now it’s $1100, but it was $700 not too long ago (like, oh, last year).”
Smith,
You get it like me. My hobbies are Economics, Politics, and Science, I’m a machinist by trade. I was an organizer for a Ron Paul Meetup group to try to get him into the Whitehouse. The depression wouldn’t have been as bad had he won and we would have been 2/5 of the way through it at this time. Now we are going to have a depression that is 3 times worse.
Ron Paul says to the question; there isn’t enough gold in the world. To that he says, a loaf of bread could cost 5 cents.
Oh yeah, now the New York Times weights in . Too Late! Barrage of curse words for the NYT, use your imagination.
As Climate Talks Near End, China Is Doubtful of Deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/science/earth/18climate.html
http://www.berlingske.dk/klima/danmark-opgiver-faa-en-stor-klimaaftale
You won’t understand this but the heading proclaims:
“Denmark give up on getting a big climate agreement”
“The climate negotiations in the Bella Centre have hit the buffers so hard that the Danish chairmanship must reduce their ambitions. There will not be a big comprehensive climate agreement in Copenhagen. The socalled G77 countries are blocking an agreement and the Danes threw out their compromise proposal last night after having tried to get it accepted yesterday. Now it is a question of salvaging a few bits and pieces in a smaller agreement and look forward to the next climate meeting next year in Mexico.” This covers the first two paragraphs and contains the the gist of the report dated this morning at 08.46 Danish time. It will be snowing tomorrow in Cph with sub zero temperatures and a good chill factor. A fitting accompaniment to a gathring like this promoting unashamed AGW.
The protestor with the sign waiting for legally binding agreement will be waiting a long time. The draft treaty leaked last week drawn up by the developed nations specifically points out that it would not be legally binding and there should be yet more jollies to try and make it binding.
Michael (01:46:42) :
Oh yeah, now the New York Times weights in . Too Late! Barrage of curse words for the NYT, use your imagination.
As Climate Talks Near End, China Is Doubtful of Deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/science/earth/18climate.html
Don’t
Michael (01:46:42) :
Oh yeah, now the New York Times weights in . Too Late! Barrage of curse words for the NYT, use your imagination.
As Climate Talks Near End, China Is Doubtful of Deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/science/earth/18climate.html
Sorry, I slipped.
Don’t worry, Obama will save the day!
He’ll zoom in and fix everything.
Mooloo (20:32:44) :
“Nor does talking about the uselessness of the UN gain much. Like the world could reach any decision, about anything without it? Would the world be better off like it was in 1938?”
Er, there was a League of Nations then, remember?
Keep an eye out overnight (Copenhagen time don’t forget) – The Gore Effect may be evident by morning.
Eastern England may get snow dumped on it as well. Propelled by strong NE winds – lovely. Have to sign off now, off to the E. Coast for a spot of all night Cod fishing (rod and line type). Wish me well … snow, gale force Arctic wind, -10°C and some very big Sea. What more could I ask for. Like a kid on Christmas Eve I am.
Spenc Canada (20:14:22
Sadly it is only hope. The EU will continue forever. It is an unelected gravy train several billion euros long with unauditable accounts and a lot of failed ex-politicians. They will still be milking us dry with carbon taxes a long long time into the future.
According to the Danish newspaper Berlingske Tidene there will be no agreement!!
Holger Danske smiles in his sleep…
:Michael (23:47:49) :
There is a direct correlation between the amount of energy a country consumes and it economic strength. In other words the more energy a country consumes, the bigger it’s economy gets. I don’t know when I learned this, some 35 years ago, but I remembered it. …”
Economic activity is also correlated to productivity and employment. Also, production per unit of energy is probably much greater in developed economies than less developed ones.
I don’t believe we want to cut out economic acitivity by 50%.
Also, wealthier nations are better stewards of the environment. Wealth begets benefits such as reduction of pollution.
Energy production and use doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. I’d prefer we maintain our economic activity and help others improve theirs. Fewer less developed nations imply fewer taxpayer dollars paid to 3rd world for development. Help them pick themselves up by their bootstraps.
*************
Michael (19:54:02) :
Mark Hugoson (19:33:07) : wrote
Yea for the CHINESE!
I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.”
Marc,
Could used up copper mines be used to store nuclear waste? Some of them go almost one mile in the ground and are already dug.
**********************
Some have misguidedly latched onto the “green” movement as a means to promote nuclear power. Unfortunately, if the “greens” get their way our productivity will go down the tubes, taking with it our need for more energy.
The best medicine for energy demand is a robust economy. The better the energy demand and the better the economy, the more money is around to build nuke plants. Unfortunately, “green” regulations are not the only onerous ones since “green” means a liberal approach and that approach means even more taxes and less productivity.
We need leaders who provide the kind of environment that stimulates economic growth, but not ones that depend on ponzi schemes like the housing one.
Spenc Canada
I agree with you. Monkton is on the right track with Pachauri. I would like to see his contract of employment with the UN. Why is he allowed to hold other (presumably lucrative) employment when he is supposed to be in full time employment of the UN? I am sure this must be in breach of his contract of employment.
I think Climategate and Copenhagen is a wake up call to us all. Why do we need the UN? Why should we pay for an organisation that applauds the Chavez’s and Mugabe’s of this world? International diplomacy can take place perfectly well on multiple levels without the UN.
Two anecdotes to take your breath away:
(1) A senior UN employee recently informed me in a casual manner, that every UN family is allowed one person as additional “help”, meaning flights and accommodation paid for a maid of the same nationality. This is what you are paying for.
(2) Another senior UN employee informed me that the UN paid for half of the private education of his children. Fair enough. I then discovered that there was no limit. Do you know how many children he has? Seven!
If any of this information is wrong or unfair, I will be corrected, but this is what UN employees themselves said to me.
I do not know what the leaders (and media) of the Western World think they are doing. They seem to be bent on apologizing to the developing nations for Western Civilisation. This is madness. The achievements and benefits of Western Civilisation are immeasurable (I don’t deny the mistakes). Don’t you know that you are standing in the shoes of Lincoln, Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Kennedy, Obama? Don’t you know that you are standing in the shoes of Pitt, Lloyd George and Churchill, Brown?
Climatologists, don’t you know that we all trusted you? That you are standing in the shoes of Da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Bacon, Russell, Popper and Einstein?
You ALL ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Tom G(ologist) (19:28:40)
what we really need now. Someone who is a fearless comedian to make a laughing stock out of this entire thing
Here is the comediant you asked for (it was posted here before but he deserves several posts):
Brilliant Tom, thanks, I needed that
The world would do well to consider the Chinese position on global climate change. After all, the Chinese have some 4,000 years of meteorological records to inform their position.
Really a jamboree uf NUTS!
E.M.Smith (00:43:19) : That’s the “convenient” inflation. Remember Argentine went default when their debt reached 2% of de GDP. “The Unconvenient truth” is that USA debt now reaches 13% of its GDP…..
I read a quotation the other day from some bloke complaining about the poor arrangements in Copenhagen. He said he had been to every COP Chataqua meeting since Rio, in, or so I gathered, a non-official capacity.
I have heard Trekkies who have been to every Star Trek Con, and was struck by the similarity of the tenor of their remarks to this fellow’s experience.
I am tempted to say that Star Trek was based on sounder science than AGW, but I shall refrain from doing so.
I have just watched a full 30 min news bulletin on RT ( Russia Today ) we have a feed on our satellite TV bouquet here in Zimbabwe.
It is a curious mix of obvious propaganda and what looks like hard alternative news reporting with a different perspective on things from us in the West.
I would advise caution over this Russian Data scam , not that it doesn’t sound right ’cause it does but wait for a second , independent report.
Graeme From Melbourne (20:29:29)
Words of wisdom:
I fear that the value sucking incubus of the UN and it’s various rent seeking attendants will be much harder to remove than you hope for.
The fangs run deep. The claws are tight. It’s eyes gleam with hunger from the shadows
However, at least, we must identify the patrons behind all these fools and profiteers, we must not commit again the error of generalizing. They are just a few, and all that is needed is some tar and feathers ☺
Demands from a Chinese Citizen and Economic Warfare http://www.speakoutforamerica.com/2009/12/demands-from-a-chinese-citizen-and-economic-warfare/
Michael (00:35:09) :
“yonason (23:57:08) :
Thanks for that video. My dad always used to say;
Don’t believe anything you read and half of what you see.”
I thought of posting it for background on who he was for those who don’t know in order to put his comments into perspective. The only reason I thought to post on him is that I stumbled onto a blog where some warmers were fretting about his weighing in on the matter.
Your Dad’s a good man.
Ken Hall (00:39:39) :
” I see that many of these protestors are the same as the protesters who protested against G20 capitalism and the fascist globalisation.
Now they appear to be protesting to get even more globalisation.
I do wish that they would make up their minds. The capitalist fascist new world order are playing them like compliant puppets.”
I think that’s why they are called “useful idiots.”
Unfortunately, while China says this is hopeless, in fact a deal will be signed. To stand here and understand the enormity of the issue at stake and think these people are going to roll over and play dead is silly.
The WORLD LEADERS would not continue flying in to just have a cup of coffee. They planned this for a long time.
This is done deal, a deal will be signed no later then Sunday. I say this with such sadness, but how else would these monstors behave?
Green Turtle