China declares Copenhagen Climate Conference hopeless

From ABC/Reuters

Protestors take part in a sit-in protest inside the Bella Centre

Apparently not.

China has told participants in the UN climate change talks that it sees no possibility of reaching an operational accord this week, an official involved in the Copenhagen talks says.

The official, who asked not to be identified by name, told Reuters that the Chinese had suggested instead issuing “a short political declaration of some sort”.

The statement from the world’s biggest polluter comes less than 24 hours before most world leaders are due to join the climate change talks in Copenhagen, where ministers and negotiators have made only modest progress at best.

Talks have been stalled by a widening rift between developing nations and the developed world.

Earlier Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said it was possible that there would be progress on other issues such as emission cuts during the next day or so.

“I have a sense that as more heads of government arrive here in Copenhagen, that we will make some more progress. But can I just say, as I said yesterday, success at this Copenhagen conference is by no means guaranteed,” he said.

=======

No word yet on if Obama still plans to attend at the end.

h/t to WUWT reader “Spence Canada”

Advertisements

128 thoughts on “China declares Copenhagen Climate Conference hopeless

  1. So did I scoop ya. Be good to confirm this elsewhere. Nothing in other MSM about this yet.
    REPLY: Actually yours was the second tip to come in, but the first one was not in English and rather short. -Anthony

  2. The people in the photo remind me of that activist in the 70’s, I think it was Dick Gregory, who said he was not going to eat solid food until every nuclear power plant in the US was shut down. To this pronouncement Richard Pryor noted that “That is going to be one hungry _ _ _ _ _ _.”
    This is what we really need now. Someone who is a fearless comedian to make a laughing stock out of this entire thing.

  3. …The official, who asked not to be identified by name, told Reuters that the Chinese had suggested instead issuing “a short political declaration of some sort”.
    The statement from the world’s biggest polluter comes less than 24 hours before most world leaders are due to join the climate change talks in Copenhagen…

    Someone already leaked the statement: click

  4. Yea for the CHINESE!
    I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
    I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.
    I want to go to China and help them build their first 100 plants.
    And then explain that it should be expanded to 500 plants.
    I also have a way to build that that will mimic the “Liberty Ships”. <3 years for
    each plant. 100 plants on line in < 6 years, the next 200 in 4 years, and the last 200 in 3 years.
    China: 100% nuclear electric in 13 years. It can be done.
    The Russians EMBARRASSED the USA into proper directions in the 50's (the space program, the renovating of science education in the schools, the interstate (defense) highway system).
    It would be GREAT if China were to help the US again.
    PS: Whether you understand or not, they already HAVED just helped the USA!

  5. By the way Anthony thanks for all the work you do. I have already chipped in once and will do so again as I can, regardless of where this all ends up. All the best of the Christmas season!

  6. This is all extremely interesting. I think it raises much more fundamental questions than the end of AGW theory. I think we could be witnessing the beginning of the end of the UN itself, that bloated, dysfunctional and corrupt bureaucracy, rife with nepotism. Apparently Chavez and Mugabe received an ecstatic welcome at the conference.

  7. This is an interesting development.
    But it will be difficult to figure out the consequences. There is little or no rational thought at the Copenhagen Climate Conference.
    E..g., speakers like Al Gore and the above picture of protesters.
    Scientists and politicians form a strange couple indeed!
    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel

  8. Hope the politicality of this comment won’t offend, but the ChiComs certainly seem to have wrong-footed Obama on this one. Does turn back Air Force One and do loop-the-loops over Manhattan, or cary on to Hopenchangen and declare victory (before going home)

  9. “Jack Green (19:34:43) :
    Is Obama still going to give a speech? I don’t think so.”
    All over radio this morning here in Australia, Obama is going to turn up towards the end in an attempt to rectify the situation there. Tony Bliar, Gordon Brown, KRudd747, Mzzz Wrong and Mzzz Gillard all failed so far.

  10. If accurate, it’s the best Christmas Gift we could ever expect from this Carbon Trade Show. I’d love to see Obama ignore this as he has the CRUtape letters and make an even bigger fool of himself proclaiming he will save the planet. I’m sure the Polar Bear Guy would put it in his movie.

  11. Mark Hugoson (19:33:07) : wrote
    Yea for the CHINESE!
    I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
    I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.”
    Marc,
    Could used up copper mines be used to store nuclear waste? Some of them go almost one mile in the ground and are already dug.

  12. cbullitt (19:52:49) : wrote
    “If accurate, it’s the best Christmas Gift we could ever expect from this Carbon Trade Show. I’d love to see Obama ignore this as he has the CRUtape letters and make an even bigger fool of himself proclaiming he will save the planet. I’m sure the Polar Bear Guy would put it in his movie.”
    This is what I’m hoping for too, to seal his fate. I really want to see BO make a laughing stock of himself on this issue, just like Gore. I’m sure though BO’s teleprompter writers have two different scripts for him to read. Which one will BO choose, the one with the red cover or the one with the blue cover? I’m going to need more popcorn.

  13. I say good for the Chinese too. If they ever want to get paid back the money owed by the USA, they have taken a positive step by at least slowing down this looting of the US treasury. The current administration will never pay them back.
    IMHO,
    Mike

  14. I wonder why nobody raised this in the meeting…
    “The European Union (EU) Emission Trading System (ETS) has been the victim of fraudulent traders in the past 18 months. This resulted in losses of approximately 5 billion euros for several national tax revenues. It is estimated that in some countries, up to 90% of the whole market volume was caused by fraudulent activities. ”
    http://www.europol.europa.eu/index.asp?page=news&news=pr091209.htm
    Check the date out… If this came out in the mainstream media before the conference – it would never have started! ETS is dead as a dodo.
    cheers

  15. What an amusingly verbose message on that poster. No wonder the whole thing is falling in a heap. If you can’t come up with a decent slogan that isn’t 13 words long you don’t have a chance. “Hide the decline” is not a bad one to try…
    Between UN incompetence, the belligerence of the NGOs and the genuine division on policy it’s actually becoming easy to imagine that an international climate deal is not probable.

  16. Ross
    I have been thinking lots about the world after Copenhagen, if, as it now appears, it will be a complete failure. There will be a number of investigations including:
    – The UN and its IPCC
    – The whole entity called Climate Change Science
    – Those members of that guild who have been shown to be actively cooking the books, already in process I think.
    – Governmental environmental departments and their associated agencies for collusion
    – The MSM for the same.
    It will also mean:
    – The revival of proper environmental science
    – The severe marginalization of the left in all democratic societies.
    – Criminal charges and imprisonments will happen
    Besides these investigations the following will happen:
    – It will ultimately mean a change of governments in, at least, England, Australia and the US
    – The EU will fall apart
    – End of the UN as we know it
    – Law suits will abound against some universities and government agencies who have supported pseudo science with our tax dollars.
    One can hope!

  17. Anthony,
    As I don’t know you except by way of your blog, I was having trouble figuring out what to get you for Christmas.
    So….I finally decided on a high quality engraving of Ulysses Simpson Grant.
    Best wishes to you and the team at WUWT!
    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
    And my God Bless us, each and every one.
    Steamboat Jack

  18. Yes, it is a shame to spend money on reducing a beneficial gas (CO2) while real air pollution exists. Someone should be very ashamed.

  19. We have GOT to stop this issue from dividing right/left so that obstruction of research on natural climate variations will CEASE. Right now, alarmists with an interest in natural climate variations are scared (for political reasons) to speak up (for fear of the political consequences). My advice to those folks: Just go through all of your documents and replace “AGW” with “toxic pollution”. Have the best of both worlds. At this stage, I see “the enemy” of progress in research on natural climate variations as anyone driving left/right polarity with a wedge (for [imagined – not necessarily real] political gain).

  20. My expectation is that the US Prez will land in Copenhagen and give a marvelous speech full of outstanding rhetorical flair and bring home the bacon – just like he did with the Chicago Olympic bid.

  21. Michael (19:48:48) :
    A complete failure would be my guess.
    Yep, and the EPA self-destructed . All I can say is…..

  22. Graeme,
    I agree but the political consensus is collapsing for the wrong reason. I wish China had said, we’re bailing out because the science is fraudulent.

  23. The President wasted a lot of political capital on the Olympics. I don’t think he’s learned his lesson…. he may actually believe that he can just print more…

  24. Ross (19:45:12) :
    This is all extremely interesting. I think it raises much more fundamental questions than the end of AGW theory. I think we could be witnessing the beginning of the end of the UN itself, that bloated, dysfunctional and corrupt bureaucracy, rife with nepotism. Apparently Chavez and Mugabe received an ecstatic welcome at the conference.

    If true, and video-taped, that would make powerful counter-propaganda.

  25. Mark Hugoson (19:33:07) :
    Yea for the CHINESE!
    I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
    I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.
    I want to go to China and help them build their first 100 plants.
    And then explain that it should be expanded to 500 plants.
    Mark:
    You need to leave soon. The Chinese have 11 nuke power reactors operating, 18 under construction, 35 planned, and 90 more proposed. (of course you know this already; I’m typing for all the other readers)
    http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/reactors.html
    Yes, they’re also building coal fired plants, but such is their need that they’re building both as fast as they can. Sadly, they had a coal mine accident 2 months ago that caused over 100 fatalities, which is more than all the nukes in the world have ever caused. For you readers who aren’t up on this industry, the official Chernobyl total is up to 56, and reactors of THAT design are mostly shut down.
    Michael: Power plant waste storage is not a technical or economic problem; it’s a political problem. The Brits, Japanese, French, and Russians are reprocessing, while the US has NO waste policy, and each power plant is storing its own. Obama zeroed the budget for the Yucca Mountain central storage site.
    Anthony, the UN is good for at least one thing. The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) has been doing good work. They should be commended.
    Sorry if this is OT, but the currently viable solution to cut fossil burning is to build nuke power plants and drive plug-in hybrid electric cars. Whether you want to reduce fossil burning to reduce CO2, to cut dependence on coal and oil sources, or to leave them for future generations, it’s the same answer.

  26. Spenc Canada (20:14:22) :
    Ross
    I have been thinking lots about the world after Copenhagen, if, as it now appears, it will be a complete failure. There will be a number of investigations including:
    – The UN and its IPCC
    – The whole entity called Climate Change Science
    – Those members of that guild who have been shown to be actively cooking the books, already in process I think.
    – Governmental environmental departments and their associated agencies for collusion
    – The MSM for the same.
    It will also mean:
    – The revival of proper environmental science
    – The severe marginalization of the left in all democratic societies.
    – Criminal charges and imprisonments will happen
    Besides these investigations the following will happen:
    – It will ultimately mean a change of governments in, at least, England, Australia and the US
    – The EU will fall apart
    – End of the UN as we know it
    – Law suits will abound against some universities and government agencies who have supported pseudo science with our tax dollars.
    One can hope!

    Spenc – there is a lot of hope in your statement and I hear you. I’m not as sanguine as you. I fear that the value sucking incubus of the UN and it’s various rent seeking attendants will be much harder to remove than you hope for.
    The fangs run deep. The claws are tight. It’s eyes gleam with hunger from the shadows.

  27. Nor does talking about the uselessness of the UN gain much. Like the world could reach any decision, about anything without it? Would the world be better off like it was in 1938?
    And the failure to reach agreement in Copenhagen has nothing to do with bureaucracy. The bureaucrats would have rammed something through by now, because bureaucracy is quite effective at decision making (albeit they often make bad and undemocratic decisions).
    The lack of agreement is because virtually no countries think the situation is bad enough to risk being the first to make real cuts. Until the scientists manage to show that to them, beyond any doubt, they will always err on the side of economic wealth. So long as any scepticism about AGW remains, the warmers are always fighting self-interest.

  28. Mike Bryant (20:07:53) :
    I say good for the Chinese too. If they ever want to get paid back the money owed by the USA, they have taken a positive step by at least slowing down this looting of the US treasury. The current administration will never pay them back.
    IMHO,
    Mike

    As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
    Weimar republic anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

  29. My Guess:
    Obama will find it “necessary” to stay in the U.S. to sheppard the Health care
    fiasco through this difficult period…etc…etc… . I hope I’m wrong!
    ( ” -put a chop stick in it- ” outstanding…)

  30. @ Spenc Canada:
    My addition to your list:
    — Exposure of the phoniness of the “Skeptical” movement. The global warming issue has separated the men from the boys — that is, the real skeptics from the pseudo-skeptics, which is what capital-S “Skeptics” are).
    ——
    However, this turnaround is going to require years of falling temperatures and more scandals about data fudging, etc.

  31. Weather Forecast for Copenhagen – Thursday, December 17
    Cold, snow, and windy.
    Chance of Snow. Partly Cloudy. High: 32 °F . Wind NE 22 mph .
    Chance of precipitation 20% (water equivalent of 0.06 in). Windchill: 13 °F .

  32. Jon Jewett (20:15:36) :
    Anthony,…what to get you for Christmas.
    So….I finally decided on a high quality engraving of Ulysses Simpson Grant.

    You could give Monckton one of William Tecumseh Sherman.

  33. John Egan (20:44:37) :
    Weather Forecast for Copenhagen – Thursday, December 17
    Cold, snow, and windy.
    Chance of Snow. Partly Cloudy. High: 32 °F . Wind NE 22 mph .
    Chance of precipitation 20% (water equivalent of 0.06 in). Windchill: 13 °F .

    What’s the chance of Copenhagen Airport getting snow bound this weekend?
    How cold/snowy does it have to get to disrupt air travel?

  34. Carbon Dioxide is NOT a pollutant.
    Just thought I’d reiterate the obvious…. for obvious reasons:-)

  35. The only thing now that would really make me happy is a huge blizzard to hit Copenhagen followed by prairie-like cold of -50C and gale force winds to boot.

  36. Never fear, things will be back on track soon….
    U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she will lead a 21-member congressional delegation to the United Nations-sponsored meeting in Copenhagen attempting to forge a new international climate-change treaty.
    “We see Copenhagen as a meeting about job creation — how do we move forward to create millions of clean-energy jobs and new technologies to keep America number one,” Pelosi, a California Democrat, said in a statement yesterday.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a4c_waONSk_4

  37. No matter what they do or do not do, COP15 itself is hopeless.
    And as for issuing “a short political declaration of some sort” — short or long, that’s all they were ever going to do. All that they really needed to decide was how much cash was going to be involved. The rest is just fluff.

  38. Paul Vaughan
    I agree completely. The saddest aspect of this whole thing for me is the damage it will do to a proper environmental attitude. I am hoping a robust environmental science will be the outcome. Science in my mind is neither left or right but can become so, as we have seen!

  39. Graeme From Melbourne (20:37:19) :
    Mike Bryant (20:07:53) :
    …….. If they ever want to get paid back the money owed by the USA, …….
    As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
    Recently, on a TV talk show, as I watched in horror and disgust, a prominent politician(the name is escaping me at this moment) floated that very idea. Sigh, it never ends with them.

  40. Pedro X (20:12:48) :
    If you can’t come up with a decent slogan that isn’t 13 words long you don’t have a chance.

    Yeah, no S%^t.
    I had to go back and count. First time I just zoned after the first line.

  41. If they would just stop trying to continually screw up our lives for their ego, I would stop fighting them and get on with my own life. Oh how I wish I could have a decent shot at having a happy life without the control freaks in it.

  42. China and India came in with a portfolio of demands from America and Europe that were designed to appease greenies and patriots at home, but were designed to destroy the silly conclave of morons. China is an expert at this, having done the same thing since the Korean War. India was basically riding on coattails, learning how to lie and seem self righteous at the same time. The Chinese are fully aware that all the science behind AGW is faked, but everyone would not believe its conclusion. likewise for India, though they were surprised when they released their own findings showing India’s warming was statistically unimportant, was ridiculed by the Western agencies and their proxies in the world press. So both adopted a “you pay us to pollute approach”.

  43. Lord Monckton breaks down Copenhagen
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMxJG-Mu9dc&hl=en_US&fs=1&]

  44. In walks Hu during ‘Happy Hagen Hour’: “What you worried about?”.
    Two minutes inside that barroom brawl and he decides he’s seen enough.
    Riding back to the airport through the wintery blast he declares “Now I see what you worried about: Al Gore selling bad fortune cookies with Green Dragons inside”

  45. Concerning electric cars. As I understand it. it takes the same amount of energy to move a given weight automobile a given distance. Therefore, the electric power grid will have to supply additional electricity equal to the enormous amount of energy now produced by gasoline and diesel oil. The U.S. power grid is already operating within it’s designed emergency overload capacity just to handle everyday demand. Transmission systems are so expensive that wind farms can’t afford them but must piggyback on fossil fuel plants, remember the cancelling of 6 Kansas wind farms when 2 coal plants were disallowed for enviro. reasons.Given our financial mess, building a much larger elec. system is not a viable solution. Drill, baby, drill!
    An aside thought. At present, no one talks about the comparative weight of a vehicle battery pack versus a full tank of gas. I think the plug-in car will have to be heavier or have a lot smaller payload.
    As to the supposed problems with nuclear plants; the persons speaking against them seem to work for organizations that are against nuclear for enviro-superstition reasons. France does not seem to have those problems.

  46. I checked out your op-ed piece, Dan, and thought it was wonderful and cogently put. I think you ought to get it circulated more widely. NOTE: click on my name to read the anti-Palin oped in the Juneau Empire here
    Reply: You are welcome to link to your pro AGW editorials on this site, but your weird spammy have of seemingly trying to slip through unnoticed is not appreciated. Please be a little more straightforward next time and don’t speak of yourself in third person. We have wonderful first person singular pronouns in English that you can use. ~ charles the moderator.
    REPLY2: Dan E Bloom aka “Danny Bloom” who lives in Taiwan is a duplicitous attention seeker whom has in the past, filed frivolous lawsuits to get attention.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/22/litigious-lunacy/
    As Charles noted, he made a ruse here in comments to “slip through unnoticed” in addition to changing his name, had me fooled with the Juneau article, enough that I made the mistake of inviting him to post it here, then I realized I’d been had. and told him “never mind”. You’ll probably see those two emails show up on another blog somewhere without my permission, because Mr. Bloom has no scruples about private correspondence. He’s probably duped that Alaskan newspaper too. He will not be posting here, ever. I’ve told him several times now I have no interest in conversing with him on any level, yet here he is, trying another ploy. Banned. – Anthony Watts
    REPLY3 As predicted, Danny Bloom libels me on his blog, using private email correspondence without permission, and putting words in my mouth that I never used (such as the F-word), and quoting selectively. As I said, he has no scruples. – Anthony

  47. Pedro X (20:12:48) :
    If you can’t come up with a decent slogan that isn’t 13 words long you don’t have a chance.
    It reads like an IPCC document.

  48. Besides these investigations the following will happen:
    Spenc Canada (20:14:22) :
    Ross
    I have been thinking lots about the world after Copenhagen, if, as it now appears, it will be a complete failure. There will be a number of investigations including: [etc.]….
    – It will ultimately mean a change of governments in, at least, England, Australia and the US
    – The EU will fall apart
    – End of the UN as we know it
    – Law suits will abound against some universities and government agencies who have supported pseudo science with our tax dollars.
    One can hope!

    That’d be more along the lines of my idea of Utopia: real Science, real problem solving, real progress, Real Justice.

  49. Lord Monkton knows how the game is played by heart. They never deviate from the script.
    Do you want to know how they do it?

  50. Mooloo says: “And the failure to reach agreement in Copenhagen has nothing to do with bureaucracy. The bureaucrats would have rammed something through by now, because bureaucracy is quite effective at decision making (albeit they often make bad and undemocratic decisions).
    The lack of agreement is because virtually no countries think the situation is bad enough to risk being the first to make real cuts. Until the scientists manage to show that to them, beyond any doubt, they will always err on the side of economic wealth. So long as any scepticism about AGW remains, the warmers are always fighting self-interest.”
    Mooloo speaks the truth. And that is the beauty of it.

  51. [oops, I slightly screwed up the attribution above. I said only the last sentence. The first sentence should have gone right above the 2nd paragraph as Ross’. No big deal, but…]

  52. That poor woman and her slogan, I’m not going to believe they’re serious until they break out the Giant Paper Mache’ Dummies.

  53. As soon as Gordon Brownturn decided to take a soiree over, the thing was doomed. No doubt he’ll still try to agree some kind of unilateral economic disarmament though, he’s succeeded already in trashing most of our economy.

  54. Michael (21:34:24) :
    Lord Monkton knows how the game is played by heart. They never deviate from the script.
    Do you want to know how they do it? Ok, Here’s how they do it.
    Thanks for Keeping Secrets MSM love David Rockefeller

    Reply: I’ll alow this comment, but let’s not spiral out of control on world government discussions. ~ ctm

  55. Lord Monckton breaks down Copenhagen

    Yes M’lud, I agree with the scenario but what will they have done?
    To me the tipping point was when Chavez received a rousing ovation when he made the distinction between capitalism and socialism. This is definitely now a political rally on redistribution of wealth and has very little to do with climate or science.
    I cannot for the life of me imagine that President Obama would commit the USA to another financial burden that would drag the US into the abyss after just committing 30,000 more troops and 30 billion dollars for Afghanistan. But many other leaders may be just crazy enough to agree to anything just to be able to go home with no loss of face. And Gordon Brown knows that his government will not have to come up with a penny because soon they will not be there.
    I can only pray that the good Lord is right and what comes out in the end is just pee and wind but I guess it ain’t quite over until the fat lady sings.

  56. L Gardy LaRoche (21:14:04) :
    Lord Monckton breaks down Copenhagen
    —————————————————
    Yep, he’s got them pegged….. Political theatrics. Their policies… Our money.

  57. The Fifteenth Conference of the Parties will likely end as all the previous conferences have, little accomplished and let’s do this again soon – the foie gras was marvelous. The top down government control dictated by focusing on CO2 doesn’t work. We’ve got seventeen years of proof that they can’t even get started.
    Policy should not be based on CO2 and climate, but on what actually deploys alternative energy solutions. Think about how further along we’d be if the billions of dollars and millions of man hours spent on just talking about doing something about climate had been devoted to deployment.
    Climate change is a symptom, one of a number of environmental, economic and geopolitical symptoms, of the disease of burning carbon. Treat the disease, not the symptom.
    Climate is a poor measurement of progress. Temperature does not always follow the CO2 curve. The trend is not linear.

  58. I remember when Obama went out China to hammer out a deal a little over a month ago and Obama’ success.
    I think China just gave Obama the finger.

  59. Hi guys,
    Related to the conference we have a crying delegate asking the conference to save his home land.
    The lead negotiator for the small island nation of Tuvalu, the bow-tie wearing Ian Fry, broke down as he begged delegates to take tough action.
    “I woke up this morning crying,” and that’s not easy for a grown man to admit,” Mr Fry said on Saturday, as his eyes welled with tears.
    ”The fate of my country rests in your hands,” he concluded, as the audience exploded with wild applause.
    But as it turns out…
    But the part-time PhD scholar at the Australian National University actually resides in Queanbeyan, NSW, Australia where he’s not likely to be troubled by rising sea levels because the closest beach at Batemans Bay is a two-hour, 144km drive away. Asked whether he had ever lived in Tuvalu, his wife told The Australian last night she would “rather not comment”….
    Ahh dont you just love em……
    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/putting_our_economy_in_the_hands_of_chavez_fans/

  60. I’d love to see Obama ignore this as he has the CRUtape letters and make an even bigger fool of himself proclaiming he will save the planet.
    Didn’t you read the memo? When he was nominated, he stopped the rising of the sea and began to heal the Earth. And, for an encore, he shot lightning bolts from his butt.
    Sooooooo, he’s obviously just expecting to give another “Thank you for this lovely award” speech…

  61. Perhaps China are playing games and will spin things round at the last minute by offering to use their vast wealth to help Africa and other third-world countries shoulder their part of the cost of CO2 reduction?
    There will, of course, be a price to be paid, with China getting even more control of the Earth;s raw-material resources. Always beware the sleeping dragon.

  62. There is a direct correlation between the amount of energy a country consumes and it economic strength. In other words the more energy a country consumes, the bigger it’s economy gets. I don’t know when I learned this, some 35 years ago, but I remembered it.
    So if we cut our consumption by 50%, expect our economy to be half as big. That’s Ok with me as long as we have purchased everything we need to maintain a reasonable lifestyle and we can maintain what we have for a good while. We’ll just have an GDP half as big.
    If we can use more nuclear power to make up for 50% less fossil fuel use, we could still have our current level of economic strength. None the less, the amount of energy a country consumes is directly correlated with the amount of economic activity a country has.
    Now you see why the elite want to keep energy out of the hands of the poor economic slave countries, so they can’t grow their way out of economic slavery, and so they can keep exploiting them with low wages to their own benefit. These are sick people we are dealing with.
    Here’s an article I found, it may be of some help.
    EXAMINING THE LINKAGE BETWEEN ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND ECONOMIC GROWTH IN INDIA
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5501/is_200910/ai_n39229474/

  63. That low price is either going to make a lot of people filthy rich, or those who bought a lot of stock (and held) more than 7 months ago will become very poor.

  64. The above linke in “Amazing Randi” isn’t right. This is the correct one, for those who don’t know who he is.

  65. In relation to my last post, now you see why the rest of the world and the UN is gunning for us. They want to cut us down to size using an economic Trick. We’ll be cut down to size anyway when our country goes bankrupt.

  66. I’m so happy….
    Even if it is a {female dog} when your banker decides to not give you a loan for a new [ house, car, Bahamas vacation, wine cellar, ‘habbits’…] until you show you can keep meeting your minimum payments on all the stuff you already put on the credit card with no job prospects…
    It is rather charming to watch the Chinese wake up to the fact that the USSA Dollar is dropping like a lead brick and they need to shift “the game” from loaning us all the value they can to preservation of the value of the gigantic debt already being carried… Basically: “Don’t talk to me about the $200 B you will give me to buy me off, talk to me about the $T I’ve got in the vault and what it will buy in 2 years… ”
    At least somebody has adult supervision and understands money.

  67. yonason (23:57:08) :
    Thanks for that video. My dad always used to say;
    Don’t believe anything you read and half of what you see.

  68. I see that many of these protestors are the same as the protesters who protested against G20 capitalism and the fascist globalisation.
    Now they appear to be protesting to get even more globalisation.
    I do wish that they would make up their minds. The capitalist fascist new world order are playing them like compliant puppets.

  69. Graeme From Melbourne (20:37:19) : As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
    Don’t worry, there is no need. A 10% inflation disappears most of the issue inside 2 presidential terms. No need for ‘going hyper’. Heck, just 50 years ago a loaf of bread was a dime, stamps were a nickel, gas was $0.25 a gallon and a car cost $1700. Now bread is $2 to $3, stamps are just under 1/2 buck, gas is $2 to $3, and a cheap car costs $17,000 with a good one $34,000. So in my lifetime the $Dollar of my youth has turned into a dime headed for a nickel. Who needs hyper inflation when this one works just fine and nobody even notices… Oh, and gold was $35 / ounce, now it’s $1100, but it was $700 not too long ago (like, oh, last year).

  70. “I woke up this morning crying,” and that’s not easy for a grown man to admit,” Mr Fry said on Saturday, as his eyes welled with tears.
    Easy enough for a hired shill to admit, though. Or to fake…

  71. The Chineese know they have a win-win situation which will allow them carte blanche whatever is decided in Cop15.
    Divergent-thinking techie friend at home in NZ emailed thoughts to me yestrerday – “2.4 mil people here in a landmass slightly bigger than the UK, about 30% of this country is fully-forested National Parks. One little offshore volcano on its own, White Island in the Bay of Plenty (we have lots more and bigger), spewing out more CO2 in a day than we can stop emitting from all man-made sources in a year.
    King Cnut used the incoming tide to demonstrate that natural forces were beyond his control. Would that current politicians were that smart or as honest and knowledgable.”
    A scientist (a Rhodes Scholar) I worked with decades ago told me then
    ” science is roughly 99% boring stamp-collecting, always looking for a metaphorical Penny Black. Dangerous scientists are the dishonest ones who feel entitled to print their own stamps.”

  72. “E.M.Smith (00:43:19) :
    Graeme From Melbourne (20:37:19) : As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
    Don’t worry, there is no need. A 10% inflation disappears most of the issue inside 2 presidential terms. No need for ‘going hyper’. Heck, just 50 years ago a loaf of bread was a dime, stamps were a nickel, gas was $0.25 a gallon and a car cost $1700. Now bread is $2 to $3, stamps are just under 1/2 buck, gas is $2 to $3, and a cheap car costs $17,000 with a good one $34,000. So in my lifetime the $Dollar of my youth has turned into a dime headed for a nickel. Who needs hyper inflation when this one works just fine and nobody even notices… Oh, and gold was $35 / ounce, now it’s $1100, but it was $700 not too long ago (like, oh, last year).”
    Smith,
    You get it like me. My hobbies are Economics, Politics, and Science, I’m a machinist by trade. I was an organizer for a Ron Paul Meetup group to try to get him into the Whitehouse. The depression wouldn’t have been as bad had he won and we would have been 2/5 of the way through it at this time. Now we are going to have a depression that is 3 times worse.
    Ron Paul says to the question; there isn’t enough gold in the world. To that he says, a loaf of bread could cost 5 cents.

  73. http://www.berlingske.dk/klima/danmark-opgiver-faa-en-stor-klimaaftale
    You won’t understand this but the heading proclaims:
    “Denmark give up on getting a big climate agreement”
    “The climate negotiations in the Bella Centre have hit the buffers so hard that the Danish chairmanship must reduce their ambitions. There will not be a big comprehensive climate agreement in Copenhagen. The socalled G77 countries are blocking an agreement and the Danes threw out their compromise proposal last night after having tried to get it accepted yesterday. Now it is a question of salvaging a few bits and pieces in a smaller agreement and look forward to the next climate meeting next year in Mexico.” This covers the first two paragraphs and contains the the gist of the report dated this morning at 08.46 Danish time. It will be snowing tomorrow in Cph with sub zero temperatures and a good chill factor. A fitting accompaniment to a gathring like this promoting unashamed AGW.

  74. The protestor with the sign waiting for legally binding agreement will be waiting a long time. The draft treaty leaked last week drawn up by the developed nations specifically points out that it would not be legally binding and there should be yet more jollies to try and make it binding.

  75. Mooloo (20:32:44) :
    “Nor does talking about the uselessness of the UN gain much. Like the world could reach any decision, about anything without it? Would the world be better off like it was in 1938?”

    Er, there was a League of Nations then, remember?

  76. Graeme From Melbourne (20:49:57) :
    John Egan (20:44:37) :
    Weather Forecast for Copenhagen – Thursday, December 17
    Cold, snow, and windy.
    Chance of Snow. Partly Cloudy. High: 32 °F . Wind NE 22 mph .
    Chance of precipitation 20% (water equivalent of 0.06 in). Windchill: 13 °F .
    What’s the chance of Copenhagen Airport getting snow bound this weekend?
    How cold/snowy does it have to get to disrupt air travel?

    Keep an eye out overnight (Copenhagen time don’t forget) – The Gore Effect may be evident by morning.
    Eastern England may get snow dumped on it as well. Propelled by strong NE winds – lovely. Have to sign off now, off to the E. Coast for a spot of all night Cod fishing (rod and line type). Wish me well … snow, gale force Arctic wind, -10°C and some very big Sea. What more could I ask for. Like a kid on Christmas Eve I am.

  77. Spenc Canada (20:14:22
    Sadly it is only hope. The EU will continue forever. It is an unelected gravy train several billion euros long with unauditable accounts and a lot of failed ex-politicians. They will still be milking us dry with carbon taxes a long long time into the future.

  78. :Michael (23:47:49) :
    There is a direct correlation between the amount of energy a country consumes and it economic strength. In other words the more energy a country consumes, the bigger it’s economy gets. I don’t know when I learned this, some 35 years ago, but I remembered it. …”
    Economic activity is also correlated to productivity and employment. Also, production per unit of energy is probably much greater in developed economies than less developed ones.
    I don’t believe we want to cut out economic acitivity by 50%.
    Also, wealthier nations are better stewards of the environment. Wealth begets benefits such as reduction of pollution.
    Energy production and use doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. I’d prefer we maintain our economic activity and help others improve theirs. Fewer less developed nations imply fewer taxpayer dollars paid to 3rd world for development. Help them pick themselves up by their bootstraps.

  79. *************
    Michael (19:54:02) :
    Mark Hugoson (19:33:07) : wrote
    Yea for the CHINESE!
    I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
    I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.”
    Marc,
    Could used up copper mines be used to store nuclear waste? Some of them go almost one mile in the ground and are already dug.
    **********************
    Some have misguidedly latched onto the “green” movement as a means to promote nuclear power. Unfortunately, if the “greens” get their way our productivity will go down the tubes, taking with it our need for more energy.
    The best medicine for energy demand is a robust economy. The better the energy demand and the better the economy, the more money is around to build nuke plants. Unfortunately, “green” regulations are not the only onerous ones since “green” means a liberal approach and that approach means even more taxes and less productivity.
    We need leaders who provide the kind of environment that stimulates economic growth, but not ones that depend on ponzi schemes like the housing one.

  80. Spenc Canada
    I agree with you. Monkton is on the right track with Pachauri. I would like to see his contract of employment with the UN. Why is he allowed to hold other (presumably lucrative) employment when he is supposed to be in full time employment of the UN? I am sure this must be in breach of his contract of employment.
    I think Climategate and Copenhagen is a wake up call to us all. Why do we need the UN? Why should we pay for an organisation that applauds the Chavez’s and Mugabe’s of this world? International diplomacy can take place perfectly well on multiple levels without the UN.
    Two anecdotes to take your breath away:
    (1) A senior UN employee recently informed me in a casual manner, that every UN family is allowed one person as additional “help”, meaning flights and accommodation paid for a maid of the same nationality. This is what you are paying for.
    (2) Another senior UN employee informed me that the UN paid for half of the private education of his children. Fair enough. I then discovered that there was no limit. Do you know how many children he has? Seven!
    If any of this information is wrong or unfair, I will be corrected, but this is what UN employees themselves said to me.
    I do not know what the leaders (and media) of the Western World think they are doing. They seem to be bent on apologizing to the developing nations for Western Civilisation. This is madness. The achievements and benefits of Western Civilisation are immeasurable (I don’t deny the mistakes). Don’t you know that you are standing in the shoes of Lincoln, Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Kennedy, Obama? Don’t you know that you are standing in the shoes of Pitt, Lloyd George and Churchill, Brown?
    Climatologists, don’t you know that we all trusted you? That you are standing in the shoes of Da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Bacon, Russell, Popper and Einstein?
    You ALL ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

  81. Tom G(ologist) (19:28:40)
    what we really need now. Someone who is a fearless comedian to make a laughing stock out of this entire thing
    Here is the comediant you asked for (it was posted here before but he deserves several posts):

  82. The world would do well to consider the Chinese position on global climate change. After all, the Chinese have some 4,000 years of meteorological records to inform their position.

  83. E.M.Smith (00:43:19) : That’s the “convenient” inflation. Remember Argentine went default when their debt reached 2% of de GDP. “The Unconvenient truth” is that USA debt now reaches 13% of its GDP…..

  84. I read a quotation the other day from some bloke complaining about the poor arrangements in Copenhagen. He said he had been to every COP Chataqua meeting since Rio, in, or so I gathered, a non-official capacity.
    I have heard Trekkies who have been to every Star Trek Con, and was struck by the similarity of the tenor of their remarks to this fellow’s experience.
    I am tempted to say that Star Trek was based on sounder science than AGW, but I shall refrain from doing so.

  85. I have just watched a full 30 min news bulletin on RT ( Russia Today ) we have a feed on our satellite TV bouquet here in Zimbabwe.
    It is a curious mix of obvious propaganda and what looks like hard alternative news reporting with a different perspective on things from us in the West.
    I would advise caution over this Russian Data scam , not that it doesn’t sound right ’cause it does but wait for a second , independent report.

  86. Graeme From Melbourne (20:29:29)
    Words of wisdom:
    I fear that the value sucking incubus of the UN and it’s various rent seeking attendants will be much harder to remove than you hope for.
    The fangs run deep. The claws are tight. It’s eyes gleam with hunger from the shadows

    However, at least, we must identify the patrons behind all these fools and profiteers, we must not commit again the error of generalizing. They are just a few, and all that is needed is some tar and feathers ☺

  87. Michael (00:35:09) :
    “yonason (23:57:08) :
    Thanks for that video. My dad always used to say;
    Don’t believe anything you read and half of what you see.”

    I thought of posting it for background on who he was for those who don’t know in order to put his comments into perspective. The only reason I thought to post on him is that I stumbled onto a blog where some warmers were fretting about his weighing in on the matter.
    Your Dad’s a good man.
    Ken Hall (00:39:39) :
    ” I see that many of these protestors are the same as the protesters who protested against G20 capitalism and the fascist globalisation.
    Now they appear to be protesting to get even more globalisation.
    I do wish that they would make up their minds. The capitalist fascist new world order are playing them like compliant puppets.”

    I think that’s why they are called “useful idiots.”

  88. Unfortunately, while China says this is hopeless, in fact a deal will be signed. To stand here and understand the enormity of the issue at stake and think these people are going to roll over and play dead is silly.
    The WORLD LEADERS would not continue flying in to just have a cup of coffee. They planned this for a long time.
    This is done deal, a deal will be signed no later then Sunday. I say this with such sadness, but how else would these monstors behave?
    Green Turtle

  89. Green Turtle (12:30:37) :Don’t worry…turtles live long lives, just sit at your door, and, as the chinese proverb reads: “you’ll see the corpse of your enemy passing by”…

Comments are closed.