From ABC/Reuters
China has told participants in the UN climate change talks that it sees no possibility of reaching an operational accord this week, an official involved in the Copenhagen talks says.
The official, who asked not to be identified by name, told Reuters that the Chinese had suggested instead issuing “a short political declaration of some sort”.
The statement from the world’s biggest polluter comes less than 24 hours before most world leaders are due to join the climate change talks in Copenhagen, where ministers and negotiators have made only modest progress at best.
Talks have been stalled by a widening rift between developing nations and the developed world.
Earlier Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said it was possible that there would be progress on other issues such as emission cuts during the next day or so.
“I have a sense that as more heads of government arrive here in Copenhagen, that we will make some more progress. But can I just say, as I said yesterday, success at this Copenhagen conference is by no means guaranteed,” he said.
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No word yet on if Obama still plans to attend at the end.
h/t to WUWT reader “Spence Canada”
Yes, it is a shame to spend money on reducing a beneficial gas (CO2) while real air pollution exists. Someone should be very ashamed.
The scientific consensus is collapsing, and now the political consensus is collapsing…
We have GOT to stop this issue from dividing right/left so that obstruction of research on natural climate variations will CEASE. Right now, alarmists with an interest in natural climate variations are scared (for political reasons) to speak up (for fear of the political consequences). My advice to those folks: Just go through all of your documents and replace “AGW” with “toxic pollution”. Have the best of both worlds. At this stage, I see “the enemy” of progress in research on natural climate variations as anyone driving left/right polarity with a wedge (for [imagined – not necessarily real] political gain).
My expectation is that the US Prez will land in Copenhagen and give a marvelous speech full of outstanding rhetorical flair and bring home the bacon – just like he did with the Chicago Olympic bid.
Michael (19:48:48) :
A complete failure would be my guess.
Yep, and the EPA self-destructed . All I can say is…..
Arnost (20:09:37) :
I posted on that in another thread. The numbers in my ref were $7.3 billion, and about 90% corrupt.
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18789&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
(not same link as I used before, but same info)
Graeme,
I agree but the political consensus is collapsing for the wrong reason. I wish China had said, we’re bailing out because the science is fraudulent.
The President wasted a lot of political capital on the Olympics. I don’t think he’s learned his lesson…. he may actually believe that he can just print more…
Ross (19:45:12) :
This is all extremely interesting. I think it raises much more fundamental questions than the end of AGW theory. I think we could be witnessing the beginning of the end of the UN itself, that bloated, dysfunctional and corrupt bureaucracy, rife with nepotism. Apparently Chavez and Mugabe received an ecstatic welcome at the conference.
If true, and video-taped, that would make powerful counter-propaganda.
Mark Hugoson (19:33:07) :
Yea for the CHINESE!
I hope I can get my dream fullfilled.
I have 20 years of experience in Nuclear power. I’ve been involved in every aspect of modifying, building, maintaining nuclear power plants.
I want to go to China and help them build their first 100 plants.
And then explain that it should be expanded to 500 plants.
Mark:
You need to leave soon. The Chinese have 11 nuke power reactors operating, 18 under construction, 35 planned, and 90 more proposed. (of course you know this already; I’m typing for all the other readers)
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/reactors.html
Yes, they’re also building coal fired plants, but such is their need that they’re building both as fast as they can. Sadly, they had a coal mine accident 2 months ago that caused over 100 fatalities, which is more than all the nukes in the world have ever caused. For you readers who aren’t up on this industry, the official Chernobyl total is up to 56, and reactors of THAT design are mostly shut down.
Michael: Power plant waste storage is not a technical or economic problem; it’s a political problem. The Brits, Japanese, French, and Russians are reprocessing, while the US has NO waste policy, and each power plant is storing its own. Obama zeroed the budget for the Yucca Mountain central storage site.
Anthony, the UN is good for at least one thing. The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) has been doing good work. They should be commended.
Sorry if this is OT, but the currently viable solution to cut fossil burning is to build nuke power plants and drive plug-in hybrid electric cars. Whether you want to reduce fossil burning to reduce CO2, to cut dependence on coal and oil sources, or to leave them for future generations, it’s the same answer.
Spenc Canada (20:14:22) :
Ross
I have been thinking lots about the world after Copenhagen, if, as it now appears, it will be a complete failure. There will be a number of investigations including:
– The UN and its IPCC
– The whole entity called Climate Change Science
– Those members of that guild who have been shown to be actively cooking the books, already in process I think.
– Governmental environmental departments and their associated agencies for collusion
– The MSM for the same.
It will also mean:
– The revival of proper environmental science
– The severe marginalization of the left in all democratic societies.
– Criminal charges and imprisonments will happen
Besides these investigations the following will happen:
– It will ultimately mean a change of governments in, at least, England, Australia and the US
– The EU will fall apart
– End of the UN as we know it
– Law suits will abound against some universities and government agencies who have supported pseudo science with our tax dollars.
One can hope!
Spenc – there is a lot of hope in your statement and I hear you. I’m not as sanguine as you. I fear that the value sucking incubus of the UN and it’s various rent seeking attendants will be much harder to remove than you hope for.
The fangs run deep. The claws are tight. It’s eyes gleam with hunger from the shadows.
Nor does talking about the uselessness of the UN gain much. Like the world could reach any decision, about anything without it? Would the world be better off like it was in 1938?
And the failure to reach agreement in Copenhagen has nothing to do with bureaucracy. The bureaucrats would have rammed something through by now, because bureaucracy is quite effective at decision making (albeit they often make bad and undemocratic decisions).
The lack of agreement is because virtually no countries think the situation is bad enough to risk being the first to make real cuts. Until the scientists manage to show that to them, beyond any doubt, they will always err on the side of economic wealth. So long as any scepticism about AGW remains, the warmers are always fighting self-interest.
Mike Bryant (20:07:53) :
I say good for the Chinese too. If they ever want to get paid back the money owed by the USA, they have taken a positive step by at least slowing down this looting of the US treasury. The current administration will never pay them back.
IMHO,
Mike
As much as I dislike the possibility, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration was toying with the idea of (hyper-)inflating (the US currency) the US out of it’s debt obligations.
Weimar republic anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic
My Guess:
Obama will find it “necessary” to stay in the U.S. to sheppard the Health care
fiasco through this difficult period…etc…etc… . I hope I’m wrong!
( ” -put a chop stick in it- ” outstanding…)
@Mark Hugoson,
You might want to re-think that career-path:
http://www.yachtchartersmagazine.com/node/1223362
@ur momisugly Spenc Canada:
My addition to your list:
— Exposure of the phoniness of the “Skeptical” movement. The global warming issue has separated the men from the boys — that is, the real skeptics from the pseudo-skeptics, which is what capital-S “Skeptics” are).
——
However, this turnaround is going to require years of falling temperatures and more scandals about data fudging, etc.
Well, that was anticlimactic–pun intended.
Weather Forecast for Copenhagen – Thursday, December 17
Cold, snow, and windy.
Chance of Snow. Partly Cloudy. High: 32 °F . Wind NE 22 mph .
Chance of precipitation 20% (water equivalent of 0.06 in). Windchill: 13 °F .
I love the smell of Copenhagen failing…
Jon Jewett (20:15:36) :
Anthony,…what to get you for Christmas.
So….I finally decided on a high quality engraving of Ulysses Simpson Grant.
You could give Monckton one of William Tecumseh Sherman.
John Egan (20:44:37) :
Weather Forecast for Copenhagen – Thursday, December 17
Cold, snow, and windy.
Chance of Snow. Partly Cloudy. High: 32 °F . Wind NE 22 mph .
Chance of precipitation 20% (water equivalent of 0.06 in). Windchill: 13 °F .
What’s the chance of Copenhagen Airport getting snow bound this weekend?
How cold/snowy does it have to get to disrupt air travel?
Carbon Dioxide is NOT a pollutant.
Just thought I’d reiterate the obvious…. for obvious reasons:-)
The only thing now that would really make me happy is a huge blizzard to hit Copenhagen followed by prairie-like cold of -50C and gale force winds to boot.
Never fear, things will be back on track soon….
U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she will lead a 21-member congressional delegation to the United Nations-sponsored meeting in Copenhagen attempting to forge a new international climate-change treaty.
“We see Copenhagen as a meeting about job creation — how do we move forward to create millions of clean-energy jobs and new technologies to keep America number one,” Pelosi, a California Democrat, said in a statement yesterday.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a4c_waONSk_4
No matter what they do or do not do, COP15 itself is hopeless.
And as for issuing “a short political declaration of some sort” — short or long, that’s all they were ever going to do. All that they really needed to decide was how much cash was going to be involved. The rest is just fluff.