I try to remind people that the U.N. has not succeeded at much of anything during its history. Mostly it just makes pronouncements and consumes cash. When it comes to doing any real work, they fall down on the job, because most of the people that make up the U.N. have never had to do any real work themselves.
So I hope this lesson on the U.N. to Seth Borenstein sinks in. He’ll hardly forget his day in the cold I’m sure.
Temperature and Weather on Dec14th in Copenhagen: Hi 33 °F Lo 31 °F Humidity average 89%, winds averaged 6 mph for a wind chill of 26°F. Overcast.
From the Climate Pool:
“You have no idea how important water and a bathroom is until you don’t have it,” he said after waiting 7 hours and 20 minutes to enter the Copenhagen climate talks.
With U.N. security letting in only those cleared last week, hundreds of accredited delegates, journalists and NGO representatives were left to stand for hours in near-freezing temperatures before being let through. “It was crazy,” AP’s Seth Borenstein said. “You couldn’t leave the line. You couldn’t go to the bathroom, you couldn’t eat. Then snowflakes started falling. One woman even said, ‘if lightning strikes me, would they take me out of line?'”
People started handing out food — one gave out tangerines, another croissants. A man screamed “I don’t need food. I need socks! I’m freezing my ass off out here.” At one point, a U.N. official announced the wait would be longer, prompting the crowd to boo and chant “Let Us In!”
An Indian TV crew member interviewing actor Rahul Bose quipped “we’ll just do our interviews out here!” to which Bose mused “when bad things happen in a first-world country, it’s really a disaster!”
Seth himself stepped into the line at 7:55 a.m. and was through at 3:15 p.m., but only after another AP reporter, John Heilprin, “saved my bacon” by persuading a U.N. security guard to go out and fetch him. “John was afraid to go out himself in case they wouldn’t let him back in … the first thing I did when I saw him was give him a big hug. I have never been so grateful to be indoors.” Seth’s neighbors in line? “Oh they’re still out there.”
And it looks like they might stay there. With 40,000 people registered and Bella Center’s capacity only 15,000, the U.N. introduced a new quota system and ordered NGOs to cut down their numbers. Police shut down the Bella Center’s subway stop in a bid to ease the congestion. The situation can only get worse as more than 100 heads of state and government, including President Obama, show up this week with their entourages.
Many among the 3,500 accredited journalists worry they may be “locked down” in the press area and kept away from the conference center’s central atrium where delegates, presidents and premiers would circulate.
UPDATE: At 5 p.m., U.N. officials told everyone still in line that accreditation would close at 6 p.m. and so they should leave until Tuesday morning. Police started pulling people out of the crowd, which shouted back “Shame on the U.N.!” The U.N. then apologized for the inconvenience — a gesture met with more booing and chanting.
Katy Daigle is based in London and covers international news for the AP
==========
And they want the U.N. to run our global carbon system and handle all the money? Hell they can’t even handle the press line.
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Mooloo (16:07:23) : A question for those who think the UN achieves nothing and come from a great power. Would you be willing to see your country’s veto go? If the UN achieves nothing, how come having that veto is so important? Precisely to limit what it can achieve perhaps.
The best description of why (and why there must be a House of Lords, and why the USA used to have a Senate elected by the States, but now just has a long lived assembly called a Senate and a short lived House…) was one I heard on the radio stated by a black man. It is the issue of minority rights and the fundamental instability of a direct democracy. To roughly quote him:
“Democracy? Don’t talk to me about democracy. Democracy is two wolfs and a sheep voting on what’s for lunch!”
Clearly from someone who understood the failure of democracies to guard minority rights.
This, BTW, is also why California is bankrupt.
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/csd-california-socialism-disorder/
When I was a child, the individual counties elected the state Senators. The state was fiscally well run with authority largely delegated to the counties and cities as it ought to be. There was a County Hospital with free medical care for indigents, for example, but efficiently run. Then we changed the state constitution to mirror the amendment to the US constitution (so that Senators were directly elected, 17th?).
We changed from a balanced Republic, with a real “upper house”, to a representative Democracy. It has been slowly, but steadily, down hill ever since with constantly increasing spending and creation of a welfare state.
The state has raided the county funds and given them unfunded mandates to perform. Most counties are near, and some are at, bankruptcy. The state government regularly passes laws to hand out buckets of money it does not have in a ‘Bread and Circuses” way so that the wolves are happy and the sheep are fleeced.
The latest “budget compromise” (what is that, 3 this year? 4?) was for the states to shake down all the city governments for a “forced loan” that they promise to pay back “over time”… someday. Never mind that many of the cities are near bankruptcy too.
None of this would happen if the Senate were the representatives of the County.
Similarly, none of the $Trillions being blown by the present USSA Senate (That’s the United Socialist States of America ) would be happening if the US Senate were full of The States Representatives. They would not be worried about pleasing an electorate, they would be worried about what it would do to their state.
It was a mistake to amend the constitution to provide for the direct election of Senators.
It would similarly be a mistake to have “one house” in the UN. All that would happen is that the Wolves would eat all the Sheep. (Or, if you are a poor third worlder, you might prefer: the Wolves would eat all the Fat Cats.)
But the bottom line is that the failure of democracy is that lack of protection of minority rights. Sometimes the minority is the few rich folks, and sometimes it’s the poor black man, but when 51% can vote on who’s for lunch, you don’t want to be part of the 49%…
I’m sure Evan has lots of background in this. Even the Greeks and Romans knew it. The Founding Fathers knew all about it.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler
“Perhaps what he had in mind was what Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler has written, that a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority, he said, always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collpases over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship. Unfortunately, we can’t argue with the professor because when he wrote that we were still colonials of Great Britain and he was explaining what had destroyed the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years before.”
‘Seth himself stepped into the line at 7:55 a.m. and was through at 3:15 p.m., but only after another AP reporter, John Heilprin, “saved my bacon” by persuading a U.N. security guard to go out and fetch him.’
Sort of reminds one of the “bread lines” in Moscow. Except in Mosow, Seth would not have been saved by John.
Socialism at work. Isn’t it just wonderful?
Welcome to Scandinavia!
Here’s a direct live link to todays demonstrations!
http://ekstrabladet.tv/live/
The President of the Climate Conference has resigned (Fox News.com)
The wheels on the bus go thump, thump, thump
Jon Jewett (17:21:12) :
Ray (15:10:11) :
A note: Since WUWT has an International Status now, it would be great to also use International Units…
**********************
[…] Just ask the Britons that wanted to use the traditional system of measurement. Off with their heads!
Just between you and me, I’d rather stick to our English system as an act of defiance. […] Steamboat Jack
Ok, the “every so often” nag to “one size fits all mandated conformity” comes around again. Strange how the virtue of “diversity” is so selective…
So, for you Steamboat Jack, my defense of the English Foot, and why I will be using it for the rest of my life:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/making-an-english-foot/
And the companion piece showing the Greek foot is almost exactly the same and the older Minoan foot too:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/chasing-the-greek-foot/
The foot, rod, acre, and all the units derived from them are much more rational and reasonable than is reputed. I can create an accurate rod from anywhere on the planet with 2 sticks, some string, a stone, and the night sky. Also, while decimals are OK for a calculator machine, fractions are better if you are ‘doing it in your head’ and even have advantages on paper.
For example. 1/3 is an exact quantity. 0.33333 is not an accurate third. If you hold your calculations as fractions, you get an exact result, only losing precision at the final “reduction of the fraction” to a decimal. And base 12 is far more rich in usable fractions than base 10. Base 60 even more so (which is why it is used for time and navigation).
So if you would like to be able to accurately and with minimal tools: Navigate, tell time, have a precise reproducible time standard, have a precise and reproducible length standard, and measure and build things without benefit of calculating machines: The traditional units of measure are superior.
Oh, and the absolute sizes of the units tend to be closer to what folks want so you often get to use single digits to specify sizes: 1 cup of coffee (who wants 250 ml ?), 1 pound of butter or steak ( 500 gm steak?…), 1 ounce of Tequila (well, some folks might want a bigger unit 😉 etc.
And whatever you do, don’t try to split something 3 ways with the metric system…
My apologies if it’s already been pointed out, but…
“I don’t need food. I need socks! I’m freezing my ass off out here.”
How do socks keep your a$$ warm?
E.M.Smith (04:29:37),
Make mine a gill of tequila.
@Deadman (18:15:38) :
“I advocate 1 UNIQ where, say, 1 mUNIQ = an incompetently arranged accreditation process…”
Would that pronunciation be “eunuch”?
I see ‘Friends of the Earth’ cannot now get into the Copenhagen summit….
It emerged later that no one from Friends of the Earth was allowed in. Executive Director Andy Atkins claimed it was an affront to democracy.
“It is a crisis of democracy when campaigning charities like Friends of the Earth are prevented from speaking up on behalf of communities around the globewithin the talks themselves,” he said.”We were stunned to discover that every Friends of the Earth delegate has been banned from attending these crucial talks – if this is a consequence of our role as one of the most prominent groups calling for a strong and fair agreement, this is even more disturbing
“This draconian measure is completely unjustified – the Copenhagen conference is fast becoming an international shambles.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6824890/Copenhagen-climate-summit-protests-threaten-to-shut-down-talks.html
It is instructive, I think, to compare & contrast these two video links (already posted by several others above).
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/12/15/2772906.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pft7c/The_Environment_Debate/
The ‘debate’ between Plimer & the Great Moonbat shows the dangers for a competent scientist (I have no doubt that Plimer IS competent) when he tangles with media savvy journalists. The thrust of the debate (including consideration of the actual Geological / climate record and the implications of Climategate) became completely submerged in Monbiot’s accusations that Plimer had committed a deliberate “scientific fraud” in suggesting that (a) global temperatures had cooled since 1998 and (b) volcano CO2 emissions could exceed human CO2 emissions, when the huge number of undersea volcanoes are included.
It must be said that, having changed the whole debate to challenging Plimer’s book (albeit on these two specific issues), Monbiot went into attack dog mode, with the complicity of the ABC anchorman, and Plimer’s refusal to deal properly with these challenges made a poor impression.
I don’t know enough to say whether the point about CO2 emissions from volcanoes is right, wrong or indifferent. (This point is, in any case, hardly central to the thrust of Plimer’s book). But I’ve seen plently of ‘evidence’ on WUWT, CA and a host of other sites that global temperatures have in fact levelled off or declined since 1998 (depending on whatever corrupted and unreliable data is fed into which dodgy computer).
I do know it is easier to think straight AFTER you’ve been attacked whilst in the spotlight. But it is a great pity that Plimer didn’t think to turn it round again and say something along the lines of “OK, just for the debate, let’s pretend as you suggest that it hasn’t cooled in the last decade. Now you tell me, Mr. Monbiot, why there is absolutely NO evidence whatever that it has warmed during that period, anything even approaching the results of all those discredited computer models so dear to your heart?”
So I think, unfortunately, that no-one really emerged with a lot of credit from the ABC encounter.
The BBC4 debate was quite different. It was spiced up with clips from “The Age of Stupid” – which clearly represents the apotheosis of stupidity – but I think both Dick Lindzen & Bjorn Lomborg aquitted themselves well (and, for once, were allowed to do so) and even the egregious Bob Watson made some half way sensible points in between mouthing the AGW credo.
Dick Lindzen is, of course, a National – nay an International Treasure. I hope he won’t be offended if I say that, to me he looks just like a science professor should look! But he is (rightly) extremely careful in the points he makes (I can’t see him ever falling into the trap that Plimer seems to have done, in making statements about volcanoes – or whatever – that can’t be substantiated in great detail). And the thrust of his message could perhaps be summarised that, whilst the conventional AGW scare is almost definitely wrong, the science is not yet sufficiently developed to be absolutely categoric about what has driven such warming as has occurred. Which is, of course, an uncertain message that the media have great difficulty with. “We don’t really know? What kind of a sound byte is that?”)
In this, he reminds me of Steve McIntyre who is similarly cautious and methodical in his approach. Neither McIntyre nor Lindzen are ever going to make a career as TV anchormen and I’m sure that’s entirely OK with them!
Lomborg was allowed to make a number of very sensible and valuable policy points and even Watson had to admit that saving hypothetical people as yet unborn from equally hypothetical problems, in 90 years time, was unjustifiable when real people in 2009 were hungry, had no clean water and no reliable and affordable energy.
On balance, if no-one came out of the ABC debate looking good, no-one came out of the BBC4 debate looking bad. Personally, I think it can only be helpful, although I doubt very much that any of the Copenhagen Clowns will ever watch it.
But we shouldn’t forget the most amazing feature of both these TV debates is that they were held at all. The thought that there was even a debate to be held would have been absolute anathema to the BBC even last month. Now it is out, they won’t easily get that genie back in the bottle. (Although I still say that Copenhagen is not about science anyway and AGW is absolutely too big to fail!)
To this we owe a huge vote of thanks to the hero of the UEA leaks!
Do 45,000 delegates need to attend climate conference?
Quote:
Chief organiser, Yvo de Boer, admitted he was to blame and said: “You can’t fit size 12 feet into size six shoes.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8415358.stm
This from the BBC?
Great!
“You are so important they wont let you in”
The BBC having a go at Friend of the Earth.
Enjoy.
From an Indian attendee out in the cold:
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/bahardutt/258/54004/from-copenhagen-chaos-and-cold-cloud-over-climate-talks.html
Tuesday morning as I write this there are again thousands standing in the cold outside, with no signs of anyone being let in today as well. To make matters worse the train station at Bella Centre has been shut down as they can’t deal with the swelling crowd. I can’t but help wonder – if this was India, by now some chaiwallah would have emerged, some food stalls would have instantly cropped up, but here in Denmark, people stood quiet, tired and hungry for hours. Surely the UNFCCC could have done a better job!
Martin – I watched the BBC4 programme and agree with you almost entirely (I thought Bob Watson generated more heat than light, but that’s normal enough, and at least he didn’t swear on camera like he did on Newsnight).
I also agree that Lindzen looks just like a science professor should, and although he gets accused of not being telegenic, I don’t think that counts against. He’s measured, polite and reasonable, which has the effect of making noisy AGW supporters appear the opposite.
Zenaib Badawi made a good host, I thought – interesting to speculate what was being shouted in her earpiece! Perhaps the BBC is coming round, albeit slowly, like a supertanker.
Leaving journalists out in the cold at Copenhagen has probably done more for scepticism in the MSM than anything else could have, bar perhaps turning the heating off.. 🙂
yonason (01:30:13) :
WHO ELSE IS IN COPENHAGEN, AND WHY
The Tuvaluans, or is that “Tuvalooons?”, with their 2 cents worth, are there:
Drumming up business for their beachfront hotel? I imagine the Friends of Earth need to thaw out by now…
photon without a Higgs (23:57:03) :
coaldust (22:48:52) :
What’s the secret to staying awake while listening to Coldplay?
Apply all lyrics to AGW and laugh.
A sock, a sock! My kingdom for a sock!
I understood that the reason the USSR turned the nuclear arms carrying ships back from Cuba was that Kennedy agreed to dismantle the Thor missiles on the Turkish border that were threatening the USSR, nothing to do with the UN.
Should I feel sorry for Seth?
The truck said it was -24 C or about -11F on the way to work this morning. The radio said something similar. (See, we work ok in both units here in Canada. A certain foreign influence I assume). I expect -17 C or about 1 F for noon, with a wind chill of -24 C or about -11 F. I’ll still go for my 3 mile or about 4.8 km walk in bright but chilling sunshine during which I’ll ponder the prospects of global warming.
@Robert Ray
I think what you will notice is that a lower danish cabinet member resigned so that the Prime Minister of Denmark could take over her position. So yes the Danish president of the U.N. climate conference resigned but that was only to be replaced buy someone higher in stature to be the new Danish president of the U.N. climate conference.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580348,00.html
At least the Danish police has demonstrated how a nice wellorganized queue should be!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/12/copenhagen-choo-choo.html
“I need socks! I’m freezing my ass off out here.”
Who could have imagined you’d ever need them there?
[I quote:]
“In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks…”
Today’s Wall Street Journal Op Ed explains what every person in Copenhagen already knows:
So the real question is how many trillions of dollars can be printed before the President of the United States arrives in Copenhagen Friday to pull off a deal or two.
I humbly suggest that there is no reason why the domestic home-printing-press program employed so effectively in the U.S.
http://theskunk.org/2009/02/obama-wants-citizens-to-print-their-own-money/
…should not now be expanded for the benefit of the world at large.
Sing It!
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there’s a land that’s fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
http://www.bluegrasslyrics.com/all_song.cfm-recordID=s29253.htm
One could be lead to think that a warming conference sited North of Stalingrad in December would be to encourage warming.
The danish governement is responsible for the logistic of the summit (The danish governement paid for it, even if UNFCCC participated to the cost …).
Confusion between an intergovernemental conference and a fun fair or a market !
They should outsource their next conference’s logistics to the Heartland Institute 🙂
“I need socks! I’m freezing my ass off out here.”
http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5133018/251655-main_Full.jpg