From the BBC, apparently Copenhagen is falling apart:
Environment correspondent, BBC News website, Copenhagen
Excerpts:
The African delegation is unhappy over moves by the Danish government
Negotiations at the UN climate summit have been suspended after developing countries withdrew their co-operation.
Delegations were angry at what they saw as moves by the Danish host government to sideline talks on more emission cuts under the Kyoto Protocol.
As news spread around the conference centre, activists chanted “We stand with Africa – Kyoto targets now”.
Informal talks continue, and the UN climate convention head said the formal agenda should resume in the afternoon.
Blocs representing poor countries vulnerable to climate change have been adamant that rich nations must commit to emission cuts beyond 2012 under the Kyoto Protocol.
But the EU and the developed world in general has promoted the idea of an entirely new agreement, replacing the protocol.
…
Last week, the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu forced a suspension after insisting that proposals to amend the UN climate convention and Kyoto Protocol be debated in full.
“The point is being made very loudly that African countries and the wider G77 bloc will not accept non-action on the Kyoto Protocol, and they’re really afraid that a deal has been stitched up behind their backs,” he told BBC News.
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Hmmm. Ya think?
This story earlier on WUWT certainly suggests something was indeed “stitched up”:
More Leaks – Copenhagen in disarray
The “consensus” behind this AGW fiasco has always been a loose coalition of groups who saw it as an easy opportunity to achieve the implementation of personal agendas which were nearly impossible by other means and most importantly to get their hands on other people’s money. Like other similarly organized groups[ bank robbers, scam artists, etc.] the critical moment in the enterprise arrives when it’s time to split up the loot. That is the point where things tend to fall apart. In Copenhagen we are seeing another proof of the old axiom “There is no honor among thieves”
“What about Gollum? He could be the MSM.”
How about George Monbiot?
Whining and snickering are Gollum’s forte.
:Al Gore Arrives at COP15.”
‘Al Gore has left the building’ would be welcome news.
You know, there are times in life, brief moments… when morning sunlight dawns, when waves crash on a beach, rhythmic yet perpetual, those moments when time slows and you See and Are One.
I’ve just had one of those. The skeptical side quiets, as does the analysis. And one just sees. Be the moment.
Some of the Islanders and 3rd world may well have a greedy hand out knowing full well that AGW is a farce. But the actions here suggest another thread as well:
A lot of the 3rd world delegates BELIEVE they are doomed!
The AGW folks had to “oversell the thesis” to get the more skeptical countries to move, oh so tentatively, to a ‘well maybe’ stance. During that oversell, the ROW folks got the Holy Crud scared out of them.
Now the AGW folks are stuck with a radical fringe of demonstrators and a paranoid fearful ROW that all DEMAND a solution other than the nice, neat, global control system layered on top of business as usual… After all, they know they are doomed, DOOOMEED I say!!
I just love it!
Reminds me of the French Revolution and Robespierre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre
So how’s that new “National Razor” working out for you?
One can only hope that the folks advocating for this grand revolution are now facing the crowd they have whipped to fever pitch with the same level of concern about what they have wrought…
When Copenhagen fails, we need to point at the key players and point out how they too must be part of the Aristocracy and so must be the Evil Ones who have failed to live up to the ideals of The Revolution!
Nomad-Brit (05:57:18) :
“I posted the in the notes to WUWT section, but am so enraged Im going off-topic here-sorry.
Has anyone else seen the disgraceful FRONT PAGE article in the Independent on Solar activity?”
Agree 100% with your sentiment. I read the two recent “independent” articles attacking the solar climate hypothesis.
The logic of their arguments was the following. This is a clear example of a rather pathetic logical fallacy related to a straw man:
1. Skeptics claim (astonishingly!) that climate has fluctuated in the past and that the recent warming might be such a “natural” (how they hate that word!) phenomemon.
2. “At the heart of this argument is the idea that the sun and sunspots are responsible for this fluctuation…”
3. We quote scientists who oppose the sun spot theory, therefore: hey presto, the whole blasphemous idea of the climate having changed in the past (chorus of indignant jowl-flapping) is really just poppycock!
Anyone with more brain cells than a bacterium can see this as a simple and deceitful trick. No – the fact of continuous oscillation of global temperature and climate throughout the earth’s history, abundantly evidenced in palaeoclimatic data, does not rest on the sunspot-cosmic ray hypothesis alone. It is a total non-sequitur and fallacy to imagine that it does.
Other posters above have listed the many other mechanisms, oceanic, orbital and other, that also cause fluctuation, as well as the chaotic dynamics of the atmosphere – ocean that make fluctuation the expected norm, not the exception. In fact in the context of a true understanding of climate dynamics, the idea of persistent stasis of climate is as ludicrous as a flat earth.
Richard Lindzen was correct when he said that: “to imagine that the climate of the mid 20th century in some way represents climate perfection is not a sign of intelligence”.
BTW, the UK “independent” rag is about as independent as the socialist worker daily or the national newspaper of North Korea: a far left liberofascist tract from the very start. Further, the kind of “people” that make up this paper are the kind that exploit the event of Henrik Svensmark’s collapse with heart trouble at Copenhagen, with a front page personal attack against him and his theory the next day. Its clear they are trying to finish him off. I’m embarrased to share the same species as these filth, let alone the same nationality.
It is just a trick to gain momentum. The crowds are yelling yah-boo because of the mean Westerners. When the West gives in it will be a triumphant success for all. Climategte will find it hard to get headlines.
Tor Hannson is right:
“What else were they going to do? Hold their own conference without the money bags from the West around the table? Now what would be the point of that?”
It never seems to be noticed that ‘rich countries’ are not going to be paying anything: countries, like companies, only collect taxes. Their workers will have to pay those heavy additional taxes. The already over-taxed residents of the West will have to pay every last cent of the $Billions and $Trillions being so casually spoken about at Copenhagen. And for what? What good will it do? It certainly won’t filter down to the average person in a developing country.
Another never-reported fact: the reason that poor countries are poor is not because of droughts, colonialism, or any of the other excuses claimed by the Left.
The only reason any country on Earth is poor is because of one thing: bad government. Taiwan’s citizens are still immensely rich compared with the average mainland Chinese citizen. The only reason the mainland is now becoming wealthy is because they have retreated from communism, and started to embrace capitalism.
North Korea is still dirt poor [actually starving] due entirely to its form of government, while South Korea is spectacularly wealthy by comparison. Same people, same culture, same language, same geography. But one is rich and the other is destitute. What makes the difference? The fact that the North is a communist dictatorship, and the South is a capitalist democracy, based on the rule of law.
Africa is filled with countries run by a “Big Man” — a dictator. Those countries are also dirt poor, and practically all UN aid goes into the pockets of the Big Man — in return for the Big Man’s supporting the UN. What, you thought the UN was being altruistic with our money? Name one instance where the UN has forced democracy and good government on any country. The UN buys the support of dictatorships with our money. They don’t give a damn about the starving citizens in those countries. They don’t give a damn about the rampant tribal brutality. In fact, the UN participates in the rape and plunder of Africa.
Most Middle Eastern countries are no different. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran and others are fabulously wealthy because of their oil reserves. But their average citizens get little benefit; thousands of hereditary princes and the truly evil, corrupt mullahs divvy up almost all of the oil loot.
When has the UN has ever taken effective action to remove a bad government, and install a government beneficial to the people? The only thing the UN kleptocrats care about is perpetuating their position as the new world government. The UN is exactly the kind of organization that the U.S. RICO laws were designed to criminally prosecute. The Mafia does a few good deeds too, but they don’t get a pass. Why should the UN?
Kofi Annan and Ban Ki Moon are as crooked as Lombard Street, and their UN scofflaws rack up literally millions of dollars in New York parking tickets, which are never paid. Every one of them is corrupt; an honest UN employee doesn’t stay employed for long.
UN connivers have planned this Copenhagen scam for a long time, and there are more UN scams just like it in the pipeline. It’s all about separating workers in the West from their earnings, and using the shakedown to fund the UN’s mafia-style organization into world government status.
For years Kofi Annan flogged the UN’s “World Tax”, which would asses everyone in the G-8 countries a tax – beginning at .7% of GDP – to be paid into the UN. That’s well over a hundred $Billion from the U.S. alone, every year. Annan’s World Tax got stalled only because of the Oil-for-Food scandal. But it’s back on the front burner again, being promoted by the smarmy Ban Ki Moon.
When you feel these scamsters’ hands rooting around in your pockets with a smile on their faces, ask yourself: cui bono — who benefits? It certainly won’t be us, or the average person in any developing country.
The G77 are like a group of panhandlers at a busy intersection claiming that they’re going to leave for good since the tips are lousy.
Not when it’s the only game in town, you won’t.
So they walked back in again in about the amount of time I predicted.
I was first alerted to this unsurprising event on a Children’s news bulletin (don’t ask!). No doubt the nation’s 8 year olds were biting their nails awaiting the outcome, but all is now well. They even had the ubiquitous enviro nut to whip up more alarm, just in case any of those 8 year olds felt the urge to return to their Nintendo DSi’s.
E.M.Smith (12:23:42) :
Reminds me of the French Revolution and Robespierre…
Not a deja-vu: You know the elite behind it was the same as now..
The fraudsters at the top have gotten much more than they bargained for. Their vast propaganda machine is so efficient that they’ve created a culture of eco-fanaticism that threatens to get out of their control. This whole thing will get much uglier before it gets better.
E.M.Smith (12:23:42) : …and dangerous indeed. All those copenhagen fastening youngsters who histerically believe in prophet Gore’s armageddon, if disappointed could turn their rage against US, deniers of their most beloved cult!
Beware!, that is perfectly possible: a displacement of the libido.
Hypenhagen’s implosion is very good news.
Now we need more leaks from the evil empire of AGW promotion.
It is time to windup this scam.
I think they keep saying things are not going to work out for an agreement hoping that skeptics will take their attention off them just long enough so they can actually sign something.
If Hypenhagen falls apart, it will be the beginning of the end of AGW political power.
Go! Go! Go!
If there are any more AGW insiders with good access and strong consciences, now would be a great time to let a little more sunshine in.
Oh, lookie, lookie ~
The have-not nations have rejoined the circus.
Of course, you know the difference between the have and have-not nations.
The haves have freedom; the have-nots have not.
E.M.Smith – “A lot of the 3rd world delegates BELIEVE they are doomed!”
When you can choose your delegates, it is trivial to pick those who believe or act in the way which most benefits your country… or your dictator. You should have heard the stuff which my state’s delegates were blithering.
The summiteers in Copenhagen appeal to a distinctly Western ideal of justice and equity to condemn global warming. Such principles are what they once shared in common. But the condemnation, and their own inclinations, alienate them from this ideal and leave the presidents and prime ministers of Western nations adrift and squabbling with one another. They are engaged in the politics of cultural despair, a form of moral paralysis.
The summit will fail.
See “The politics of cultural despair”:
It is clear. Obama is planning the journey and it is lining up that he will get rejection in person. You folks have no idea how a narcissist views rejection.
There will be 2 parts to rejection. One is how he will see and describe it. The other will be how he will react. What he will do about it.
NewsFlash.
Here is the outcome agreement from CopenHoaxen.
The Developed world will agree to advance GHG payments to undeveloped countries.
However!!
(a) This will be under proviso of another reevaluation and scrutinizing of the science – due to recent contradictory established fact revelations.
(b) A mandate by the people in the developed countries must approve our agreement.
And there I was thinking that the poster boy of global warming mitigation had arrived – no, not him, I am talking about Bob Mugabe.
He has demonstrated his commitment to reducing his counrties carbon footprint in new and innovative ways including reduced coal fired power generation, reduced use of mechanisation for transport and agriculture, reduced downstream industrial output and increased reforrestation of former agricultural land. Surely all good things that other parts of the world could emmulate? Not only has he achieved all these great steps, he has also made significant inroads into population control with reduced life expectancy and increased infant mortality. All great strides that should be rewarded with additional payments from rich first world countries. In cash, US$ preferred, in non sequential bills and no 100’s please.
Well he is the “popularly elected” President and will get the appropriate “world leader with entourage” treatment in “hokumhagen”.
“Any news of who the activists are? If they are chanting in English, I’d have to guess a group of Americans”
You think that everyone else in the world is as incapable of learning another language as Americans?
Anyone who is going to attend an international conference will be able to speak at least one major world language, and that language will usually be English.
And are we sure that the delegates aren’t just trying to make the conference last longer so that they can have more free service from the generous ladies of Copenhagen?
Haven’t seen this considered anywhere. What makes the US a “rich nation”?
We’re in debt and in hock up to our elbows, close to being in a depression, with more than 30% unemployed, looking at massive amounts of increasing spending and less revenue. Major sources of our energy supply, of which the country’s lifeblood depends, can be destabilized or gone in an instant. Corruption in all sectors of society, including the governments, is alarmingly increasing in intensity and severity.
And we’re going to give countries billions so the peons don’t cook with dung?
The corrupt dictators of most of these “poor” countries will take most of it, which is why the countries are poor to begin with. The peons will still cook with dung, and any money or help left over will be used by the dictators to increase their own wealth and power, or other groups will take over with the same intentions.
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Henry chance (16:04:19) :
It is clear. Obama is planning the journey and it is lining up that he will get rejection in person. You folks have no idea how a narcissist views rejection.
There will be 2 parts to rejection. One is how he will see and describe it. The other will be how he will react. What he will do about it.
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I am thinking like some others that this situation is being set up so Obama can waltz in and ‘save the day.’ His popularity at home is waning fast, I’m betting some of the enemies of the US would like to see him succeed with his domestic initiatives. Just sayin’.