From the BBC, apparently Copenhagen is falling apart:
Environment correspondent, BBC News website, Copenhagen
Excerpts:
The African delegation is unhappy over moves by the Danish government
Negotiations at the UN climate summit have been suspended after developing countries withdrew their co-operation.
Delegations were angry at what they saw as moves by the Danish host government to sideline talks on more emission cuts under the Kyoto Protocol.
As news spread around the conference centre, activists chanted “We stand with Africa – Kyoto targets now”.
Informal talks continue, and the UN climate convention head said the formal agenda should resume in the afternoon.
Blocs representing poor countries vulnerable to climate change have been adamant that rich nations must commit to emission cuts beyond 2012 under the Kyoto Protocol.
But the EU and the developed world in general has promoted the idea of an entirely new agreement, replacing the protocol.
…
Last week, the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu forced a suspension after insisting that proposals to amend the UN climate convention and Kyoto Protocol be debated in full.
“The point is being made very loudly that African countries and the wider G77 bloc will not accept non-action on the Kyoto Protocol, and they’re really afraid that a deal has been stitched up behind their backs,” he told BBC News.
=========
Hmmm. Ya think?
This story earlier on WUWT certainly suggests something was indeed “stitched up”:
More Leaks – Copenhagen in disarray
It only gets better! LOL… I’m hoping by the time the conference is over later this week, it’s in tatters.
It has been said before. But I repeat that it will be very interesting to see how the expectations that have been blown up and up and up (by the incompetent MSM, the even-more-incompetent and venal politicians, the crooked ‘scientists’, the big finance Ponzi scheme operators and all the rest of this sorry crew) will be managed once this huge AGW bubble, inevitably, deflates.
There are hosts of ‘true believers’ who may be naive but who are (in their own lights) taking action to save the world. They won’t be happy bunnies.
And there are all the ‘leaders’ of the world’s poorest nations who have been promised wealth and help with this ‘problem’ which allegedly threatens their very existence.
Many of these ‘leaders’ are as incompetent and venal as any of the other clowns at Copenhagen and I’m sure some will realise full well that this is just a scam and that there is no real ‘climate danger’ at all. But their citizens probably won’t realise this at all! Their own media will have been doing their utmost to scare everyone!
So when they get back home with only a few platitudes and vague promises (and hopefully a dose of something nasty from their extra curricular activities) to show for their Jolly in Denmark, what then?
Could get quite exciting! It would be lovely to think that those who have whipped up the storm will be held personally to account. But I don’t see that happening, unfortunately. The most likely outcome is that it will just become yet another millstone round the necks of the taxpayers of the ‘developed’ world.
AManuel (08:13:51) :
Agree with “ew-3″ above, this is setting the stage for team Obama to come in and save the day. There will be divine inspiration when he arrives.
Certainly should be no problem for He who is “partners with God in matters of life and money death.”
“”” Arthur Glass (07:43:35) :
O/T I’m afraid, but I can’t resist.
I am casting figures from Climategate as characters out of Tolkien. I call this epic __Lord of the Tree-rings__.
Ont the side of Light, Steve McIntyre is obviously Gandalf. Anthony is Aragorn. Lucia is the Lady Galadriel.
The trees of the Yamal peninsula are the Ents.
I can’t figure out who plays Frodo, which is certainly a major lacuna.
On the side of Darkness, Phil Jones is Saruman and Hansen is Sauron. Al Gore is the Balrog. Barbara Boxer is Shelob.
“One tree-ring to rule them all!’ “””
You mean to tell me that people actually waste the mental space to actually remember the names of anybody in “Lord of the Rings”. Even watching the eye candy movies (Peter Jackson) I never did figure out what the hell happens in that story. About as informative as “War and Peace” mixed in with “Anna Karenina”, along with “And Quiet Flows the Don.”
But since it is Rings we are depending on; I’ll go with Wagner’s “Der Ring des Nibelungen.”
Those chanting hippies in Copenhagen sure look like a herd of Nibelungs to me; with about the right amount of intelligence, to play as extras, in “Das Rheingold.”
And as for anyone who can translate “Dendrochronology”, and somehow come up with “Erstaz thermometer”, well I have something for you too. What better folks to be the beneficiaries of Alberich’s curse. That’s what you deserve for peddling this tripe as science. Stick to the DATING of tree rings, and you will be protected from the curse of the “Ring”.
Oslo would be a good place to hold a real Viking funeral for the COP-15 folks; and they could take the Nobel Peace Prize with them too.
oops, Certainly should be no problem for He who is “partners with God in matters of life and
moneydeath.” Don’t want to be spreading any misinformation to the Public, dontcha’ know.Al Gore Arrives at COP15
Developing nations return to Copenhagen climate talks Page last updated at 16:44 GMT, Monday, 14 December 2009
They will agree in the creation of a Komisariat which will be a real supra national binding agreement . This means that these “progressive” signers could be considered, in the near future, as national traitors in their respective countries.
Leon Brozyna (08:54:17) :
As noted in ClimateDepot’s current headline:
“The world must take action on climate change at Copenhagen even if the science is not correct, Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister has suggested.”
Just like WMD’s being used to justify a war in Iraq. No he admits there were none and that regime change was the posterior motive, which was unacceptable at the time.
I sometimes wonder about this Blair fellow. Would I buy a used car from this man?
If only we could have the agreement put off for a half decade or so, the sun says that global cooling will be the new thing. What are the odds that we might dodge this horrible bullet and have no real agreement this week?
Just in:
Angry Protesters Berate Little Match Girl, Trample Her Matches
Crowds of climate protesters hurled verbal abuse and taunts at a young Danish girl who was seen lighting matches in a doorway, accusing her of flaunting her carbon footprint. The chanting protesters, incensed at the recently announced breakdown of talks in the Danish capital, were stirred to new outrage at the sight of flagrant striking and burning of matches.
“She was in the pocket of big oil!” shouted one of the protesters. “If she needed to keep warm, she could have… joined an organized sport, or just put on a down coat. Like us!”
More here:
http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheLittleMatchGirl_e.html
and here:
Little Match Girl,
Copenhagen, Denmark, 1848
Hans Christian Andersen
They had an Urban Heat Index induced “Foggy Mountain Meltdown”.
The protesters need to go break out some more windows of random businesses – it’s the logical next step when you don’t get your way amirite?
/sarcasm off
Politicians are several times named, cited along these lines, but they do not count at all, they are just the butlers and servants, who, by the way, deserve only our pity because of their disgraceful and submitted lives along with all the rest of scientist/cooks, funny courtiers like fatty Al, etc.. Only their masters are to blame, the ones who are unconsciously dividing the peoples of the world into two radicalized parties which could inevitably confront each other.
That was fast …
The thing that upset the third World countries thinking that they had a ‘Free Lunch’ for lots of money, were wrong.
They were astounded to learn that current ‘Foreign Aid’ would be re-labled GHG payments to the Third World. The first World Socialists intended to keep the money and consequent power for themselves…
“A report by three top climate think-tanks says efforts planned by New Zealand to cut greenhouse gases stack up better than the European Union’s – the region normally thought of as a climate leader.
But an analysis by Sustainability Council director Simon Terry found the New Zealand ranking was “wildly inaccurate” because it assumed countries would make real cuts to their emissions and not mop them up with forest sinks.”
Translation the EU leaders are stupid – but the champion in stupidity is none other than our John Key – should we be proud of that fact?
Arthur Glass (07:43:35) :
O/T I’m afraid, but I can’t resist.
I am casting figures from Climategate as characters out of Tolkien. I call this epic __Lord of the Tree-rings__.
Ont the side of Light, Steve McIntyre is obviously Gandalf. Anthony is Aragorn. Lucia is the Lady Galadriel.
The trees of the Yamal peninsula are the Ents.
I can’t figure out who plays Frodo, which is certainly a major lacuna.
———-
How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??
Anthony as Aragorn – perfect.
…. oh, and a Stevenson Screen on Mount Doom:
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8987/stevensoncreenmtdoom.jpg
Yes, the G77 have rejoined the conference. What else were they going to do? Hold their own conference without the money bags from the West around the table? Now what would be the point of that?
Apart from negligible amounts of hot air nothing will come from this conference. It represents the turning point in the climate debate. Real money was under discussion, and everybody sat up and paid attention.
Democracy has its virtues. Politicians want to be re-elected. As AGW is quickly losing popularity, politicians are looking for the exits.
This is likely to be the last time scientists and politicians stage AGW theater together on this scale.
And as for Africa, the real environmental cleanup that is needed is in the government offices across the continent. Never have so many been robbed blind so many times by so few.
There are actually three agendas running at this farce called Copenhagen, all with different agendas and all using the CAGW myth to try and get the most money.
Top of head possible agenda lists:-
Western World (ex-USSR) – Want carbon credit cash market, want to revive industry using ‘green’ projects, want energy independence, want World government, want to avoid losing power to the rising East.
Eastern World – (+USSR) – Want to continue growth fuelled by burning hydrocarbons, want lots of money on pretext of going ‘green’, want to dominate the world economy, want World government on their terms.
Under-Developed World – Want money to develop, want to continue burning fossil fuel, want to retain control of their raw material reserves, want any World government which will continue to hand out money.
As an added complication, I’m sure there are many factions within each of the above groups with agendas which differer from their partners. USSR is the most interesting player as it has fingers in so many pies.
The player likely to benefit most I think is China – big investments in recent years in Western world and Africa. Which ever way this breaks, they should do OK.
As ever, the under-developed world will lose out which-ever way things go.
The whole CAGW scam is about money and power, not science. Each of the three groups know this and it will be difficult to get any legal agreement in place. I suspect the toothless, face saving statement full of weasel words was written long before Copenhagen even began.
To Nomad- Brit et al,
I believe that the “Sun Spot cycle” influences climate on earth and given warming on Mars etc we can only point to the Solar cycle or the Sun Spot Cycle as the cause. Reading the article in the Independant, the scientists were very careful to refer specifically to the “sunspots”. It may be true that the spots themselves (the little black spots) don’t cause climate variations, but that kind of rhetoric won’t get any traction. You and I both believe that it the underlying solar activity, indicated by the sun spot cycle, that contributes to the climate variations on earth and Mars etc.
Thanks for the tip…
reference:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/sunspots-do-not-cause-climate-change-say-scientists-1839867.html
Is there anyone that believes the contrary? That the spots themselves effect climate? Or do you all believe as i do that the spots are part of a mysterious solar cycle, which yield spots periodically.
Tenuc is on the right track. [I posted this thought as an alternative view-point on another blog:]
|| Please note that the PRC is the primary leader of this ‘discord’; I don’t have time to poke about properly, but I strongly suspect that most of the G77 states are ‘economic client states’ of the PRC [not to mention fans of Chinese arms and munitions].
What we may be witnessing is the first ‘power’ manifestation of the PRC’s global ’shadow empire’.
Yes, the G77 is demanding ‘assurances’ of development aid, but note that main point of contention are ‘hard emissions targets’.
Precisely the kind of shackles that will hobble the Western Nation’s economies, letting the PRC, it’s allies and economic puppet states zoom past the West in the race for global economic preeminence.
It’s a pretty neat trick: force all your rival economic ‘blocs’ to ’save the planet’ by sawing their own legs off. Never mind India, they’ll be dealt with ‘later’.
And the race for the ‘future’ becomes a rigged farce. ||
COP15 IS a multi-layered trap, and ‘climate-guilt’ is the bait.
It’s not just the Western Economic Blocs that are being set-up, it’s the Xtreme Greens as well.
The PRC will NEVER honor any long-time agreement; the skillful application of bribes and threats will mitigate any ‘punishment’, and with the G77 in the PRC’s hip pocket, the UN will become ‘toothless’ [except for those nations stupid to actually honor this fraud].
This battle for our children’s future has only just gotten started.
Arthur Glass
philincalifornia
To pick up your Tolkeinian analogy, we would also need a ‘Wormtongue’. How about Gavin Schmit, or Tamino?
What about Gollum? He could be the MSM.
philincalifornia: “How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??”
Possibly. But there needs to be an Elrond (powerful elven king), perhaps either Lord Monckton or Richard Lindzen; I think Lindzen would just get the vote.
Another female lead would be required to represent Arwen the elf heroine. Who could play this role? Maybe Kristen Byrnes? Another prominent female skeptic?
The skeptic journalist John Daly – whose death was celebrated in one of Phil Jones’ emails, could be either Theoden, the king of Gondor killed by the Nazgul in the battle of Pellenor fields – or possibly Boromir killed by the Urukhai. (Perhaps Theoden would be better).
Other suggestions? Alongside Anthony Watts as Aragorn, Lief Svaalgard as Legolas, Willis Eschenbach as Gimli?
No shortage of corrupted AGW scientists (walking scientific corpses/zombies) to play the nine Nazgul or ring-wraiths.
A different take on Copenhagen:
To begin with,
it’s unfortunate that those against CO2 reduction schemes are ridiculed as
“not believing that global warming is taking place”.
The point most skeptics make is if CO2 reduction schemes really will affect the progress of global warming,
a point also made by those initially raising the alarm bells eg James Lovelock.
Ironically,
A local focus on electricity and transport alone (80% of CO2 emissions),
with advantages to all regardless of the CO2 issue,
would give the necessary 2020/2030 reductions anyway
http://www.ceolas.net/#cc1x
Moreover, it would not have to impact greatly on consumers in terms of cost,
given long term industrial EU/state guaranteed loans, as described on the website.
If the need is felt to target consumers,
then energy efficiency based taxation – instead of bans-
on light bulbs dishwashers buildings cars etc,
would (unlike the bans) raise additional significant funds that could be used for these and other environmental measures,
while also reducing sales (like the bans), yet keeping consumer choice.
Just looking at ordinary incandescent type light bulbs: 2 billion sales of them in each of the EU and USA 2008,
the preferred consumer choice around 9 times out of 10 as by the European Commission’s own analysis.
Unfortunately….
The EU authorities are happy to alienate EU consumers by telling them how they should live their lives,
what they can or can’t use in their homes,
that “everyone has to cut down and save”
– instead of positively dealing with providing any energy supply that is needed,
with any emission limits that is seen as necessary.
Unfortunately….
the EU and Copenhagen talk is also of extending the Kyoto and EU Carbon trading schemes.
The problem with emission trading is particularly in the short term,
that everyone now considers so important,
since any squeeze on allowance permits takes years to kick in, all the more so with the free allowance handouts and offset schemes.
The “No Goldilocks Solution”,
as seen in the EU where the problem with carbon prices is they
are either too low and so cheap and meaningless as in recession times,
or too high to lead to any reduction at other times, when evasive
action for example involves paying off third world emitters (who
according to a recent Economist article can simply be set up to rake
in cash ie they would not be emitting otherwise), or tree planting
exercises of dubious effect, which may in any case be fast growing
non-native trees which changes local ecosystems.
An artificial market will always be an artificial market.
_______________
Understanding Emission Trading (Cap and Trade) – and why it doesn’t work
http://ceolas.net/#cce5x
Basic Idea
Offsets — Tree Planting — Manufacture Shift — Fair Trading
Allowances: Auctions + Hand-Outs — Allowance Trading
Companies: Business Stability + Cost
In Conclusion
‘How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??’
That works for me.