From the BBC, apparently Copenhagen is falling apart:
Environment correspondent, BBC News website, Copenhagen
Excerpts:
The African delegation is unhappy over moves by the Danish government
Negotiations at the UN climate summit have been suspended after developing countries withdrew their co-operation.
Delegations were angry at what they saw as moves by the Danish host government to sideline talks on more emission cuts under the Kyoto Protocol.
As news spread around the conference centre, activists chanted “We stand with Africa – Kyoto targets now”.
Informal talks continue, and the UN climate convention head said the formal agenda should resume in the afternoon.
Blocs representing poor countries vulnerable to climate change have been adamant that rich nations must commit to emission cuts beyond 2012 under the Kyoto Protocol.
But the EU and the developed world in general has promoted the idea of an entirely new agreement, replacing the protocol.
…
Last week, the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu forced a suspension after insisting that proposals to amend the UN climate convention and Kyoto Protocol be debated in full.
“The point is being made very loudly that African countries and the wider G77 bloc will not accept non-action on the Kyoto Protocol, and they’re really afraid that a deal has been stitched up behind their backs,” he told BBC News.
=========
Hmmm. Ya think?
This story earlier on WUWT certainly suggests something was indeed “stitched up”:
More Leaks – Copenhagen in disarray
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
This was always about money. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s why ‘science’ doesn’t matter.
The economics were worse than the science. Of course economics in the political discourse has been consistently awful recently.
“Supersmart” negotiation tactics by the “rich” govs:
First announce big fat payments and then reconsider that your own country’s debt is already killing you. Hard to get out of that situation.
However, they may now slowly adopt the idea that AGW has turned out to be based on bad science … LOL
Then to use 10% of that promised money to fight real problems.
Doesn’t this sound like a win-win?
I wouldn’t get too excited about this. This sounds like posturing to me: they are just trying to get more money thrown their way.
Wait until Mugabe gets there – that’s when the fun will really start.
Hopefully this will buy some time to properly audit the temperature records , not to mention for the Earth to continue to ignore the GCMs.
I just hope the collapse of these talks is complete and allows the real effects of the climategate mails time to wholly discredit those poliscientists intent on ruling our lives with pseudoscientific alarmist lies!!! As a first time commentor I must offer my thanks to Mr watts and his ilk who have educated me enough to see through the smoke and mirrors employed in this battle for the truth.
Because the work was so important, even if merely symbolic, the workers of the world should not begrudge doing with less until the carbon footprint for this event is neutralized.
Any news of who the activists are? If they are chanting in English, I’d have to guess a group of Americans.
One perspective here (random):
http://chrisdaviesmep.blogspot.com/
Earlier he commented it was more of a lunch break.
I fancy this is for effect and part of the pantomime. They are stommping there feet for money and know that COP is under preasure with lots of people watching.
Prediction, developed world pledges more money and more CO2 cuts to save man kind from destruction. The formation of the global governance board continues.
So, what’s the underlying narrative here? On the one hand there’s a group of nations that firmly believe that they’ll face total annihilation without mitigation efforts that they cannot accomplish without outside financial assistance. Financial assistance that was, and is being, painstakingly negotiated under the framework of the Kyoto Protocol. On the other hand there’s the developed world that thinks that if everybody does not move to a low-carbon economy we’ll all, in time, suffer humanitarian disasters and devastating economic slowdown, and that such a transition has become very hard to negotiate under Kyoto.
Of course, they are both correct. Let’s hope they will find some negotiation space to navigate a solution.
I shouldn’t get too excited see this…
Climate Change Talks Back On After Walkout
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Copenhagen-Climate-Change-Summit-G77-Group-Of-Developing-Countries-Walk-Out-As-Protest/Article/200912215499846?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15499846_Copenhagen_Climate_Change_Summit%3A_G77_Group_Of_Developing_Countries_Walk_Out_As_Protest
Of course it was always about the money. It was never about the science.
The science was just to give a gloss to the politics. Therefore it didn’t and doesn’t matter to all in Copenhagen that it is junk science.
If the truly poor, developing countries really wanted to deal with the change in climate they’ve been indoctrinated in, why don’t they demand these ’emission’ reductions from the two countries who emit the most – China and India?
Perhaps because they might not get as much cash as they think they can screw out of the bad, rich West?
The absurdity of the situation is beginning to dawn on everyone ….
– Governments influenced by politically motivated eco-activists have made energy changing ‘promises’ they cannot in any way deliver, and financial ‘promises’ they know will not be tolerated by their electorate
– The whole premise of these promises hes been undermined to the point that more than 50 of their populations don’t believe the rationale and there is no way of passing any required legislation of underwrite them
– Global politicians who have staked their reputation on the line by claiming this is the greatest crisis the world has ever faced
– Developing nations who know they have the entire world over a barrel and can pretty much ask for anything they want .. due to the above
– As an example the island nation like Tuvalu (a place of 12,000 inhabitants – approx equivalent to 6 Shanghai apartment blocks) holding the process to ransom because they inisist on ‘holding’ the earths temperature rise to 1.5 degrees C
I don;t know whether to laugh or cry at the image of the leadership of world has been reduced to this. What hope do we have ?
Jim, it’s ALWAYS been about the money….
Great to see more turmoil here. It been a enjoyable clown show and there still one more week left of such great entertainment!
What a bang up way to end this year!
First climate-gate, then the yellow cards from the Copenhagen Mayor asking hotels not to facilitate arrangements between climate delegates and prostitutes.
By the way, 16,000 delegates x $200 per day x 10 days = 32 million dollars in just hotel bills alone! All paid for by Mr. Taxpayer! (you and me!!).
Then the supposed peaceful demonstrations with nearly a 1000 arrests. Somehow the response of green whack jobs burning cars and throwing bricks through windows does not surprise me one bit.
Now the less developed countries walking out because we not opening our wallets WIDE ENOUGH reminds of feeding time for pigs on a farm. Sometimes the little piglets at the back of the pack are squealing really loud, but it is the big pigs at the front who muscle their way to the feeding trough first.
In other words, the western nations are not being socialists enough and they want more buckets of duckets! This video by the Muppets explains what Copenhagen is all about:
Funny, but it is clear that Copenhagen summit is all about money! Why is there no talk about the science anymore? What happened to science?
I do heed the warning that several here noted about this supposed walk out does smell. You see this week the G5 leaders fly in and they now have set the stage for the G5 leaders to become great heroes in the media by saving Copenhagen (and offering more money!)
When I see a rich vs poor nation game here, it smells as being all to convenient as setting the stage for more money to be doled out.
Keep up the great work here folks. When I need to be cheered up, I just come over to whatts up and I know I be happy for a good day as the next chapter in the clown show Called Copenhagen unfolds.
Green Turtle
The Greens want the West to regress to the state of the third-world and keep the developing countries as they are; the third-world want to progress to the level of development the West has. Those aims are irreconcilable.
I do not think “progressive-new-age-post-modern-open-society-green-science” will ever get back. It´s just a move.
I would like the “talks” break down on the lack of scientific proof, but hey, a win is a win.
Just invite a few dozen polar bears to the conference. That’ll concentrate the minds of the delegates wonderfully.
in the mean time, Gore flight out Copenhagen for Google?
http://www.google.fr/intl/fr/landing/cop15/
(it is the french subtitled version, certainly could find the same in other languages)
Suspect that Barrack Hussien Obama will arrive and save the day.
He does afterall have a Nobel Peace Prize.
Don’t get too excited about this. Before this thread ends the talks will recommence.
This is a classic negotiating ploy – feign indignation and threaten to walk out. I bet this was meant to try and spur more people to put pressure on their governments to “fight climate change.” That won’t happen, but it was worth a try. Tonight they’ll all be back around the table talking up more ways to help themselves to your money.
I read that solar article at the independant – yes, a disgraceful attack on Svensmark, but other than that don’t worry about it. It’s not a big deal.
First, understand that up until now no MSM outlet would even breathe a hint that there were any scientific studies about solar activity at all – it has been treated as something only crazy people even talk about. For the first time, a MSM outlet feels forced to treat it seriously. Now of course they lie about it and slander everyone who doesn’t sign a loyalty oath to their politically correct view – but if you haven’t figured out yet that this is the way the MSM/dead tree media approaches *everything* now, well wake up. This is how it is – expect nothing but lies from them, but the pattern of the lies still tells you useful information.
And the pattern of lies now demonstrates that they are very scared, and looking for something/someone to attack. They *need* someone to attack, since that is the only thing they know how to do once their own case falls apart and they will never give it up, not until those news outlets are closed for good. (which is an end devoutly to be wished) It is a foolish hope to think that they will ever relent – they have bet everything on this issue and will go down with this ship. So we must make sure that the ship goes down.
But back on the topic, why these attacks do not matter – the possiblity that the warming is caused by solar activity is an interesting possibility, and may be true, but the case that we AGW opponents are making does not depend on it. We can wait and see how the science works out, which thanks to this minimum we *will* see definitively over the next 10 years or so. In the meantime, the only case we are making is that the AGW science is *not* good, there is *no* proof that C02 is linked to warming, and and that the claimed warming may just be the product of statistical manipulation. What do sunspots have to do with that? Nothing, and yet that is the only case we have to keep pounding over and over. Let the media outlets wail away in their hunt for some identifiable villains to attack. (which is why they keep claiming that the “evil energy industry” is behind all the skeptics, even though everyone here knows that is a lie)
Just as an aside, the MSM is now too corrupted to be reformed, and must pass away so that they can be replaced by something else. Something web-based, something with multiple distribution nodes and no central control. Something like we are building every day on blogs like this and a hundred others.
I think the western leaders know the mood of the public has changed.Either they are backing out(using the not developing countries)or they are preparing to ditch it all and say let’s take another look at the science.I know in Australia Rudd has realised he’s facing an uphill battle trying to sell the public his ETS and Obama is in the same position with cap and trade.It will be interesting to see what develops,I really hope I’m right,it will be fun watching them dig themselves out of the hole.