Houston: we have a problem – it's snowing!

From the “it’s weather not climate department” – I never thought I’d see this today on the header of the Houston Chronicle:

The snow is the earliest on record. Of note is the fact that in 2008, it snowed in Houston on December 10th. Place your bets for next year.

Houston braces for about 2 inches of snow

Some in Houston area may even see half a foot of the white stuff

By ERIC BERGER and PEGGY O’HARE

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

Houston this morning broke a record with the earliest snowfall ever recorded in the city’s history.

Forecasters are still hedging their bets on the amount, but say the most likely scenario is 1 to 2 inches of widespread snowfall through the day. Some areas could get up to a half a foot.

Light snow already was falling downtown and in other areas before 8:30 a.m. Other forms of precipitation — such as rain, freezing, rain, sleet and hail — also have been reported. Houston’s main weather recording station at Bush Intercontinental Airport reported at trace of snow at 8 a.m., meaning Dec. 4 will go down as the new record.

But emergency management officials say snow isn’t the biggest concern — it’s icy roads. A 12-hour freeze period is expected to begin after sundown today, continuing into Saturday, which could cause hazardous driving conditions.

A freeze warning has been issued for more than 20 Texas counties, including the coastal counties of Chambers, Galveston, Brazoria, Matagorda and Jackson, extending northward through Harris, Montgomery, Fort Bend, Wharton and Liberty counties, then stretching as far northwest as the cities of Bryan and College Station and as far northeast as Trinity and Polk counties.

“Even though we can’t say for sure this weather event is going to occur, we can definitely say our confidence has increased substantially compared to three or four days ago,” said Fred Schmude, a meteorologist with ImpactWeather, a private, Houston-based forecasting service.

==================

In other news:

Dr. James Hansen is coming to Houston to promote his new book Storms of my Grandchilden.

Is he thinking snowstorms?

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162 thoughts on “Houston: we have a problem – it's snowing!

  1. How many sheeple out there know that we have been in a solar minimum for more than two years? Who will tell them this information?

  2. There’s more important climate “science” happening in Denmark. What’s a little snow in the deep south? Happens all the time.
    Nothing to see, move along.

  3. Correction:
    Houston braces for about 2 inches of global warming.
    Now how ever will the models explain this?
    Oh, that’s right – this is weather and not climate.

  4. Off topic, but I was looking at one of my favorite old Climate audit posts, and thought we should revisit it.
    It starts:
    Adjusting USHCN History
    by Steve McIntyre on February 16th, 2007
    Although the USHCN version used in Hansen’s 1999 press release seems to be expunged from official U.S. government records, it was fortunately preserved by John Daly.
    and ends:
    The effect of the adjustments since 2000 has been to bring the USHCN history more in line with the CRU version. One wonders exactly what adjustments have been performed by CRU and others
    http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1142

  5. I remember the cold snap in Texas around 1980. Suddenly a whole bunch of people found out what freeze plugs in engines were.

  6. Well I am about to cycle home some 4 miles. from the Medical center in Houston.
    Wish me luck!
    Snow, they call this snow. I was in East Lansing, Michiganfor 4 years; now that was SNOW.

  7. Sorry for the people of Houston, but this is priceless.
    I’m waiting for the headline: “Great global warming prophet unable to preach because of early snow in Texas.”

  8. It may be colder in Houston, but globally, it’s getting warmer. There’s been a huge temperature increase just north of outer Mongolia. Trust me. I have the data here, somewhere, wait, no? Well, I have the adjusted data which is all you really need to see.

  9. I’m in Grand Rapids, MI right now. It is SNOW outside! It’s good for the tow truck guys–lots of people sliding off the roads.
    Off topic, but this has been on my mind. AGW faithful are not following a religion, but a cult. They’ve been up on a mountain waiting for the end, and a bit befuddled now that it isn’t coming.

  10. I remember people skiing on an overpass on the Southwest Freeway in 1989, but I think that was closer to Christmas. A lot of palm trees got killed that year.
    I rode my bike to work on snow packed roads at 6F in Colorado today. Yesterday the high was 16F, 30 degrees below normal.

  11. REPORT FROM HOUSTON 12 Noon CST
    Snowing pretty hard west-to-east across the city. Surface temps are consistently around 32-33 deg F.
    The wife reports accumulations already in Downtown (so much for the heat-island effect). Forecasted accumulations up to SIX INCHES east of downtown.
    Many businesses are closing early today, as we really aren’t equipped for this in any way shape or form. PLOW? You want a PLOW? How many bottoms?
    Temps overnight forecast in the low 20s F. (it would sound more impressive in Celcius, I admit) with horrific icy road conditions for Saturday.
    I must say that Al Gore DID get something right: this Anthropogenic Global Warming is a real bitch.
    Buy coal.

  12. This explains it all. ☺ ☺

    (Perhaps posted in another thread.)
    R.S. Brown. You can blame us up here in the Frozen North. We are being attacked by a giant lizard here on the southern Canadian Plains. Ooops. Sorry..typo.. that’s a blizzard. (WKRP joke.)

  13. Re: ShrNfr
    Funny you should say that. In fact they are casting plugs and not freeze plugs. But they might save your engine all the same. And yes, that is exactly where and when I had mine popped out so we share some history.

  14. ‘The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. ‘
    Trenberth, K, 12 Oct 2009 08:57:37

  15. Here in Houston,
    Just walked through some of the white stuff to grab a sandwich. It’s not sticking though…..yet. Funny thing is the local radar isn’t showing it as snow.
    The fun part will be tonight after the wet roads freeze.

  16. Snow in Houston ANYTIME of the year is big news. I lived there for twenty years and saw it maybe once. Except for the air pollution, winters in Houston are usually pleasant.
    “Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!” Politicians and tyrants are more to be feared than climate changes.
    Then David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Let us now fall into the hand of the LORD for His mercies are great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man.” 2 Samuel 24:14
    Snow expected tonight where I live too, on the MS Gulf Coast.

  17. Southern France 15 miles from the Med.
    First air frost in my garden
    2009 16th Oct
    2008 15th Nov
    2007 30th Nov
    Local (anecdotal) opinion for earliest frost is 15th Dec.
    Yes it’s just weather, but if it had pointed the other way it would have been evidence of global warming.

  18. RE:
    “Denbo (10:02:18) :
    Sorry everyone I am skeptical (or a denier) of everything I read. I will believe it when I see it and so far I don’t see snow on the live Houston traffic cams. http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/
    It might be snowing but nothing it on the ground yet according to the cams.”
    If you check
    FRY(w)
    MASON(w)
    SH99
    SH99(w)
    PEDERSON(e)
    traffic cams you will see both blowing snow and ground sticking snow in the images

  19. Do people have furnaces in Houston?
    Cold kills more people than heat. My parents live in Florida now but we’re from PA. Down South, particularly south Florida, a lot of people don’t have furnaces (or winter gear, for that matter) because they don’t need them so people freeze to death. Last year temps went down to 20 degrees for several days. (This in a place where people are cold if it drops below 65.) People were warned to stay indoors or if they had to go outside to stuff their coats. Crops were killed and so were fish–water temps went to the 40’s.
    My dad installed a furnace and a generator. He worries more about cold than he does about hurricanes.
    I hope the global warming people ARE right–give me warm any day. The alternative is too awful to think about.

  20. Please enlighten me, I am not familiar with the Texas weather, what is considered normal weather this time of year?

  21. The weather report from
    (Somewhere in) Colorado
    December 4, 2009
    All night the blunt fists
    Struck at us; the lake’s last eye
    Swelled shut by morning.

  22. I live in Houston and left two days ago for the Rep. of Georgia just south of the Caucasus Mountains. I am currently here and it is interesting to see the weather is colder and worse in Houston than here in Georgia…….at least for the next day. In Houston, if you don’t like the weather, wait a day. I wish I was home burning wood and doing my best to warm the world and my home.

  23. Currently watching snow accumulate on my porch just north of Houston. Houston sees snow, on average, every 4 years (I assume this includes years without accumulation) – except for the last four years when we’ve seen it all but 1 year. Poor Al Gore.

  24. Broke a record for a warm December 3rd yesterday in Boston. But I’m not selling my snow blower.
    /Mr Lynn

  25. “Originally scheduled for October 29, the event has been rescheduled because of temporary health issues of Dr. Hansen.”
    I wonder if a cosmic being interceded in this rescheduling and timing of the event. I do not wish ill health on anyone, though.

  26. If I would move to Houston I could. Positively balmy, compared to here in Canada.
    Its currently -11 deg C here. It was -20 this morning, and its supposed to go to -31 this weekend.

  27. Denbo,
    It’s snowing, just not sticking. At best on the traffic cams it’ll be till mid afternoon. Right around rush hour. Glad I don’t have to drive I-45 to get home. All secondary streets for me.

  28. The interesting thing is that the actual temps are colder than the model runs.
    And the storms are several hundred miles further South.

  29. Denbo (10:02:18)
    There is snow on the ground on your link for some of the Katy (west-side-of-town) cameras.

  30. We got the negative Farenheit digits in Denver last night. The only thing that was good about it was knowing that Trenberth was experiencing the same in Boulder.

  31. Denbo (10:02:18) :
    It might be snowing but nothing it on the ground yet according to the cams.

    Looks like there is some “global warming” on the ground IH-45 Gulf at South Loop (S) as at 12:45:04… or perhaps things have been painted white to reflect the heat…

  32. Snow in houston and Louisianna and Missippi.
    Hell is freezing over.
    I’m keeping a weather eye out for flying pigs too, they are hell on the street wires and branches – and don’t let one perch over your car. EVER.

  33. Frosty the snow MANN predicted it. That is why he tried to hide the decline.
    Too bad you can’t hide the white stuff.
    18 feet of snow at Whistler B,C. Record for November Evah. .by 19%
    We have warned Homeland security to watch for Polar Bears

  34. Imagine how much snow would be in Houston if there were NO global warming!
    Thank you global warming!!!
    Also, I am enjoying the delicious irony of big puck-up trucks clearing the roads in Houston so that all the Prius owners can get to work! And more trucks pulling said Prius’ out of ditches when the dumb prius owners figured global warming would save them from the snow.

  35. Yuh know, what with Al Gore not going to the meet-and-greet in Hopenhagen and drag his traditional snow storm along with him, I wondered where he would go to inflict himself on the masses yearning to be freed from AGW
    Could it have been HOUSTON?!?!

  36. “Is he thinking snowstorms?”
    It snowed 20 inches in Houston in 1895.
    We have had a very mild fall – only a couple of mild frosts. I was beginning to think winter was canceled this year. Even though it’s snowing, it’s not actually very cold; it’s 35 or so. Chances are it will continue to be a rather mild winter like last year’s was after a little snow on Dec. 10
    Look, either global warming is occurring or it isn’t. A couple of numbskulls who seem to have been caught trying to pretty up the evidence doesn’t mean anything. Glaciers disappearing and polar bears starving do. Repeated studies of average temps do. What are you guys going to say when the arctic sea is clear? It was always like that?

  37. Eric Berger’s blog, ‘sciguy blog’, is an excellent source for good science journalism in general.
    He has lifted the quality of science journalism in Houston greatly.
    He is open about his views on climate issues, but is honest enough to let the facts and the issue be properly represented.
    Our office is being shut down for this trifle of weather. and we are a New England based company!

  38. With your cranky attitude, Noel, I think you may have been an eyewitness to the 20 inch event.
    You need to produce data — unaltered, observable, and verifiable data — in support of your thesis. “Consensus” science is over. It’s back to the Karl Popper kind of science.

  39. noel,
    Please- polar bears starving?
    Maybe from population pressure, since there are many more today than just 30 years ago.
    Glaciers? Are you actually saying they are all melting?
    Arctic ice? The ice is well within 30 year norms, and we know from history Arctic ice is highly variable.
    And Antarctic ice is up.
    So chill, and enjoy our wee bit of snow.

  40. ‘Your chance to question Ed Milliband (UK env minister) live over the phone this Saturday’:
    http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/ConferenceCallGG?gclid=CKr_jqa7vZ4CFZQA4wodcERCmg#petition
    On second thoughts I would recommend this week’s Spectator which has devoted quite a bit of space to authors questioning the dogma (Nils-Axel Morner, Bjorn Lomborg , Pual Reitter on Malaria amongst others) and a piece on the CIA’s global cooling fears in the mid 1970’s.

  41. An update on the situation in Canada. The National Post passes Rex Murphy’s commentary along in a major headline so I think the press is finally moving on this in Canada, but there is still a ways to go.
    Still, we face a problem of the federal government being caught between a Rock and a hard place. Three of our largest provinces, BC, Ont, and Que, have passed cap and trade legislation that is entirely based on Copenhagen targets. The US president seems determined to do the same and to keep the federal plan from being squeezed economically the feds have had to switch from an emphasis on soft targets to 2020 to hard and fast targets which it intends to establish at Copenhagen. This is not over by a long shot. Trains with a full head of steam cannot stop on a dime. Hope we are not to late on climategate. The President needs to back down to take the pressure off Canada. Not likely at this point. Canadians need to pressure MP’s, and MPP’s.
    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/12/04/canada-s-public-television-commentary-says-climategate-spells-end-of-global-warming.aspx

  42. This whole “weather not climate” thing is confusing. Isn’t climate the sum total of all local weather? Thinking in a Calculus sense…if you had an infinite number of perfect thermometers on the entire surface area of the Earth, and an infinite number of perfect weather balloons at all points in the volumetric space between Earth and outer atmosphere, and infinite number of [measuring device(n)] …wouldn’t that “weather summation” be Climate?

  43. Global Warming causes Global Cooling observers in Houston to disavow any knowledge of Al Gore, Mann, Jones, Briffa, IPCC and all their minions.
    But rest assured there are the faithful who would stand there and defend AGW until they froze to the ground.
    Ain’t got the sense God gave a crowbar.

  44. It looks like things are starting to tip. Here’s someone writing for Discover Magazine saying that scientists need to be better PR lobbyists:
    “It’s up to us in the scientific community to figure out how to stay on message.”
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/12/04/no-escape-from-climategate/
    It gets worse as people jump on that saying that scientists shouldn’t be acting like politicians in the first place and the author tries to explain it away, but only buries herself deeper not realize how out of touch she is (I guess Shell supplied her blinders).
    Now irony of ironies someone from CRU appears to have been woken up by climategate and says the exact opposite thing – scientists shouldn’t be playing politics at all and they also must be very transparent and willing to provide data to citizens as a whole:
    http://invw.org/2009/12/scientist-whose-e-mails-were-stolen-in-climategate-calls-for-new-view-of-science-public/

  45. I guess the logic of paying thousands of dollars extra in taxes on fuel and energy bills is not so tempting now is it? I wonder how many believers are regretting dumping their 4X4 gas guzzler(US built) and buying an eco car right now?
    Mr Obama and his plan to rescue the USA by drowning its people in debt and taxes and red tape and laws and regulations and federal busybodies is starting to look a little iffy right now eh? BUT……
    Watch out and beware, it may appear to be snowing but that is just a carefully crafted ilusion by the denialist fox news loving republicans funded by big oil to lull you all into a false sense of freezing your ass off, they have fitted snow makers to their private jets in order to fool the masses into demanding lower taxes,higher domestic oil production and lower energy bills and more real industrial jobs(how dare they?). That noise above you now is Sen Inhoffe laughing, the real temperature has never been higher with record highs everywhere and polar bears drowning in record numbers.
    So ignore the evidence and believe and repent and pay and obey your democratic high priests or hell fire and damnation will fall on you. Salvation through slavery is your only option.
    The above was a party political communication brought to you by the democrats in association with acorn inc.

  46. John G. Bell (10:06:11) :
    The Sabb 16 hp 2 cylinder diesel (fishing) boat engine has a freeze plug, perhaps that’s what ShrNfr was thinking of.

  47. @hunter (or anyone else)… I am on my phone so i can’t quote but, how much does soot from China and/or other countries come into play wrt Artic ice? I never see it discussed, but it seems to me to make a lot of sense…… Soot absorbing more energy and melting ice and snow. 1 + 1 = ?

  48. It is interesting that this article is co-written by Eric Berger. He is the Chronicle’s science reporter and was a full-blown AGW doomsayer. However, back in September he seemed to have a “road to Damascus” moment when he wrote:
    “Earth seems to have, at least temporarily, stopped warming,” Berger wrote on September 6, 2009. “If we can’t have confidence in short-term prognosis for climate change, how can we have full confidence in long-term?”
    Along with this:
    “Do not misunderstand me. I am not a climate change skeptic. I do not deny that the planet warmed 0.6°C in the 20th century. I do not deny that humans played some part in that significant warming. But I am confused. Four years ago this all seemed like a fait accompli. Humans were unquestionably warming the climate and changing the planet forever through their emissions of carbon dioxide. The problem is that some climate scientists and environmentalists have been so determined to see something done about carbon dioxide emissions — now — that they have glossed over the uncertainties.”
    http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/09/the_more_i_study_climate_science_the_more_confused.html
    Now he’s the co-writer on a news story regarding the earliest snowfall in Houston’s history. I think we’ve reached a tipping point.

  49. We had a bit of snow here too this morning in the Fraser Valley, BC, Canada. The mountains have been snowcapped for more than a month now but I am pretty sure that in any case it is also earlier than last year. Last year, winter came in around Dec. 15th.

  50. I am beginning to wonder if we can trust any climate related records at all. If all “scientists” were looking for warming, then by golly they see warming. (even to the point I fear they all toss out data that is inconvenient)
    I wish someone here could reassure me that all climate scientists are not as bad as the alarmists involved in climategate.

  51. Just for the record – I didn’t see anybody mention that Dallas/Ft. Worth saw this kind of snow Wednesday – Press account

    Snow arrives earlier than expected in Dallas-Fort Worth area
    7:59 AM Wed, Dec 02, 2009
    Even a meteorologist’s kids were caught off-guard by this morning’s snowfall.
    “My kids got a little excited to see snow on the ground this morning,” said Eric Martello of the National Weather Service.
    Earlier this week, the forecast didn’t call for snow until Friday, when the next, colder weather system moves into the area. That changed when an upper-level disturbance turned this morning’s rain into snow …”

    .
    .

  52. Bruckner,
    “…an infinite number of perfect weather balloons at all points in the volumetric space between Earth and outer atmosphere, and infinite number of [measuring device(n)] …wouldn’t that “weather summation” be Climate?”
    It all depends on what the albedo of a weather balloon is.

  53. noel wrote: “Look, either global warming is occurring or it isn’t. A couple of numbskulls who seem to have been caught trying to pretty up the evidence doesn’t mean anything. Glaciers disappearing and polar bears starving do. Repeated studies of average temps do. What are you guys going to say when the arctic sea is clear? It was always like that?”
    Please note that everybody agrees that there has been some warming and some glacier retreat. The climate did warm at the end of the 20th century. The dispute is about the cause of the warming.
    It has warmed naturally many times before and cooled naturally many times before. CO2 continues to increase in the atmosphere but for over a decade the further warming forecast due to CO2 has not happened. What has happened is not in line with the computer models of CRU and others. Now we understand why, they are very poor scientists and have an agenda rather than a wish to ascertain the true scientific facts. There is certainly something wrong with their assumptions.
    It now seems most likely that we once again had natural warming and extra CO2 has not made much or any difference. If that is so we might now be in for a period of cooling (we might not). In the CO2 warming model the current absence of further warming and current record low temperatures in places is hard to explain. It is perfectly understandable with natural warming and cooling events.

  54. I like how noel manages a double decker cognative dissonance in that one post.
    #1 – It’s not about weather, it’s about climate. There are polar bears dying and glaciers melting!
    Translation: It’s not about weather anomolies, it’s about THESE weather anomalies….
    #2 – Of the two weather anomalies stated, the polar bears is a projected crisis that is supposed to happen someday.. not right now (as mentioned earlier, polar bear numbers are on the rise, not decline), and the glacier claim is hit and miss. Some glaciers are shrinking, others are growing, and some that shrink have nothing to do with climate (read: weather)… like Mount Fuji.. it is losing it’s snow cap do to excessive deforestation… which is a LOCAL issue, not a global one.
    So good job noel! That was quite a feat!

  55. noel (11:04:06) :
    “What are you guys going to say when the arctic sea is clear? It was always like that?”
    Actually Noel it was, IN 1954!
    See the Picture in this article.
    Bastardi used this photograph of a U.S. submarine at the North Pole on March 17, 1954 to illustrate his point that Arctic ice can be highly variable.
    AccuWeather’s Joe Bastardi presses case against global warming theory
    http://www.climatechangefraud.com/climate-reports/5053-accuweathers-joe-bastardi-presses-case-against-global-warming-theory

  56. The BBC weather charts at http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather have been predicting a big freeze for almost the entire USA and even stretching down into Mexico.
    I”m sure it’s happened before.
    Piers Corbyn says it’s likely gonna snow a bit in Copenhagen too, just to welcome Barack.
    All normal European weather.

  57. And the strangest part is we’re still waiting for accumulating snow here in Wichita, yet it’s reported to be sticking in Houston O.o
    Intellicast’s temp. maps show it getting crushingly cold soon in northern Canada and making it a ticking time bomb
    http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Temperature/Maximum.aspx?region=namer
    Same with the middle of Siberia (watch the cold air mass in Russia’s midsection build)
    http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Temperature/Maximum.aspx?region=rusia
    Multiple AO forecasts from NOAA is showing the index going off the bottom of the chart (in addition to a strongly negative NAO)
    http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/ao_index_ensm.shtml

  58. John Galt (11:26:29) :
    Predictions of spreading cold being temporary is definately an ‘Oh for xx’ statistic at this point.
    The spread of cold continues, year on year.
    Caught between a Fraud and a Cold Place.

  59. Denbo (10:02:18) :
    Sorry everyone I am skeptical (or a denier) of everything I read. I will believe it when I see it and so far I don’t see snow on the live Houston traffic cams. http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/
    It might be snowing but nothing it on the ground yet according to the cams.

    The Mason cam shows snow on the central reservation.
    Not much though.

  60. Snowed in Austin. Well, we had a few flurries but now the sky is clearing so the cold air will be coming. Low 20’s by tomorrow morning. Well at least I do not live in Laramie Wy anymore… Had to move back to TX, too cold there.

  61. Michael (10:33:00) :
    That’s the thing about all these videos of ice melting – It’s not as much fun watching water freeze.
    Paint dries. Grass grows. Ice melts.
    (Off topic but I was just listening to Julie London on You Tube crying herself a river. And thereby contributing to the putative sea level rise…)

  62. This is the first time we’ve had enough wet sticky snow to build snowmen since the 1970s. Bring on the cooling, Santa, baby!

  63. On Wednesday, Frank Billingsley (Houston weatherman) showed a table of the last 5 snowfalls in Houston.; The earliest of the five was 1989, so that means 5 snows in 20 years or an average of once every 4 years. He also said that it had snowed in Houston just 33 times since 1885 (I think it was 1885, thereabouts at least). Assuming 1885, thats snow once every 3.75 years. However, the most recent of the last 5 was just last year, during the second week in December. The one before that was on Christmas Eve 2004. So that’s 3 snows in the last 6 years, or once every 2 years, nearly twice the 125-year average frequency.
    Its 2:25 here in Katy (just west of Houston), the kids were let out early, my office closed early, and it’s still snowing. Cool.

  64. It may look like snow, but it is really dirt-flavored Häagen-Dazs. Didn’t sell too well, so it was offered it to the Feds, and they bought it as part of the stimulus plan. Saved alot of jobs, because “heads were gonna roll”.
    Now the Lear-Jet Liberals flush it down the toilet as they are crossing the “fly-over land” and earn carbon credits, that can be sold to utilities.
    Its a win-win.

  65. Dr. James Hansen is coming to Houston to promote his new book Storms of my Grandchilden.
    ~~~
    methinks the Gore Effect is contagious.

  66. A friend was telling me about a snow event when she lived in Houston. That was in 1985. Anybody else notice that was during a solar minimum also? Check out this sunspot plotter:
    http://spaceweather.com/java/sunspot.html
    It’s the sun, Noel. It’s a cycle. (Or do you have too much personal treasure tied up in AGW to consider the evidence?)

  67. I think what we need is a massive deprogramming effort if we hope to ever straighten out the AGW culters.
    Who knows how to deprogram?

  68. Tilo Reber (10:48:53) :
    We got the negative Farenheit digits in Denver last night. The only thing that was good about it was knowing that Trenberth was experiencing the same in Boulder.
    ———–
    “but the data are surely wrong. Our observing
    system is inadequate.” Heh heh heh

  69. For those of you complaining that the Houston weather cams don’t show any accumulation of snow, realize that the ground stays WARM all winter in this climate. There has to be an incredible amount of the white stuff for any accumulation to happen before it melts away. So 6 inches in downtown Houston is *huge*.
    Someone asked what the climate is usually like in Houston over the winter. I’ve never lived there, but it seems to me that nighttime temps would drop to just below freezing a couple of nights per winter. Here in San Antonio (where, ALAS!, no snow has fallen!) we might have 4-5 nights/winter where the temp drops into the 20, but usually with a daytime warm up to the 40s. It gets that cold because of clear skies, and warms up that much for the same reason later in the day.
    The last time San Antonio had any appreciable snowfall was in Jan of ’85, when we got 13″ and the whole city shut down for a week. In 2007 (2006?) there was a massive ice storm that shut down Austin for a week, also in January. FWIW, I can also remember 80F days in December since I’ve lived in SA – mid-90s, I think.

  70. Dusty (11:23:07) :
    @hunter (or anyone else)… I am on my phone so i can’t quote but, how much does soot from China and/or other countries come into play wrt Artic ice? I never see it discussed, but it seems to me to make a lot of sense…… Soot absorbing more energy and melting ice and snow. 1 + 1 = ?

    Just put soot in to Anthony’s search engine (make that the word “soot”) at the top right hand side of his home page and you will find plenty of articles and discussion. I believe that it makes a huge difference in the NH compared to Antarctica which does not have as much.
    Hope the snow continues in Houston and reaches Copenhagen because Australia had its hottest November on record:
    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtml
    which seems to reflect November for the globe. So far however the AGW media have not made a big issue out of this as December has cooled off somewhat.

  71. Dr. James Hansen is coming to Houston to promote his new book Storms of my Grandchilden.
    “Is he thinking snowstorms?”
    Heh, he could care less about his grandchildren, it’s more the dough he stands to make selling his own particular brand of snake oil. Dang, if only his sleaze-ball competitor Gore hadn’t beaten him to the punch with his fizzler “Our Choice”.
    Poor Warmists, it always seems to snow on their parade. May Hansen get lots of coal in his stocking this Christmas.

  72. Bruckner8 (11:15:25)
    No, because when it gets colder somewhere (e.g. Houston) it doesn’t get warmer somewhere else to make up for it. So right now based on cold in Houston and elsewhere we might have global cooling on average and could have global warming tomorrow and it doesn’t really matter. The integration of temperatures you described over time could be considered climate, but it is very debatable how much time to average over.

  73. In related news, Fox picks up the scent on the X-treme Climactic Makeover certain scientists/warmists have proposed:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579373,00.html
    None of which is needed. The climate has already been cooling off, and besides all that, whatever percent the Solar Minimum plays in the cooling of the climate, it’s still very much Stuck in Deep Solar Lodi.

  74. Fred2 said, “Snow in houston and Louisianna and Missippi.”
    And I’m jealous in Arkansas. No snow but it’s been c-c-c-cold. Doing my best to burn wood and gas to heat the environment back up. FORWARD THE CO2!
    We did get some mild sleet a few days ago, but that’s not unusual for Northern Arkansas this time of year. Thank Gawd this is all weather and not climate! It’s probably actually quite warm out…

  75. Re: AdderW (10:20:51) :
    “Please enlighten me, I am not familiar with the Texas weather, what is considered normal weather this time of year?”
    In Houston, the normal high on December 4th is 67F, the normal low is 45F

  76. @ John Galt
    This is a debunking admission directly from the article
    “Rising temperatures over decades have prompted scientific concern, and the last decade has been the hottest in thousands of years, according to climate records.”
    Apparently the scientists the writer is quoting are ignoring the Midevil Warm Period and the Roman Warm Period. My guess, pure speculation actually, is the writer here is getting his information from the Mann/ Jones camp and a warmist/ Alarmist.
    Additionally, have you heard of the PDO? Pacific Decadal Oscillation? It has recenlty entered a cooling phase, hence part of the reason for the cooler water temperatures.
    Cheers,
    Matt

  77. This sort of weather extreme is consistent with global warming.
    (Isn’t that what we are told everything there is a weather event that seems to fly in the face of global warming?)

  78. It’s consistent with global transport of oceanic heat due to a drop in input to the system.
    Oceanic heat goes up to the poles in currents and air masses, displacing the Arctic air.
    Those 2000+ mile long high/low boundaries running nearly N/S this spring and summer were not just because and no other reason. The system is trying to adjust to a new equilibrium.

  79. DocMartyn (09:47:41) :
    Well I am about to cycle home some 4 miles. from the Medical center in Houston.
    Wish me luck!
    Snow, they call this snow. I was in East Lansing, Michiganfor 4 years; now that was SNOW.
    Doc, the problem is the idiots trying to drive in it. I am originally from near buffalo NY and was in South Carolina during a snow storm. My brand new car – just paid it off that day – was accordioned at a stop light. The real problem is no plows, no salt and ICE..
    I wish you luck. We get hit here in North Carolina on Saturday.

  80. Kay (10:15:39) :
    ….I hope the global warming people ARE right–give me warm any day. The alternative is too awful to think about.
    You are right about that. David Archibald was saying here on WUWT, a drop in temp means no cereal grains in Canada and Russia and parts of China Europe and the USA. The dolts in the US Congress got rid of our excess grain reserves (Freedom to Farm Act 1996) and have no plans to replenish it. They have set us up for famine on purpose.
    “Recently there have been increased calls for the development of a U.S. or international grain reserve to provide priority access to food supplies for Humanitarian needs. The National Grain and Feed Association (NGFA) and the North American Export Grain Association (NAEGA) strongly advise against this concept..Stock reserves have a documented depressing effect on prices… and resulted in less aggressive market bidding for the grains.” July 22, 2008 letter to President Bush http://www.naega.org/images/pdf/grain_reserves_for_food_aid.pdf
    And they plan to make money off us starving.
    In summary, we have record low grain inventories globally as we move into a new crop year. We have demand growing strongly. Which means that going forward even small crop failures are going to drive grain prices to record levels. As an investor, we continue to find these long term trends…very attractive.” Food shortfalls predicted: 2008 http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dancy/2008/0104.html
    Try telling the average person we are being set up for food shortages and very high prices while the international corporations move to create a food monopoly by regulation farmers off their land worldwide and no one hears.
    Our only hope is hard cold weather sets in fast, we get mild food shortages and it shakes people up before these crazy megalomaniacs do too much damage and we can not recover.

  81. Gary (13:55:30) :
    Yeah, I’m in central AR, and it is cold here, too. Very weird to see snow passing to the south of us. Between 10-15 degrees below normal, and we’ll see a near record low tonight (predicting 25, record is 24).

  82. Fred2 (10:52:56) :
    Snow in houston and Louisianna and Missippi.
    Hell is freezing over.
    I’m keeping a weather eye out for flying pigs too, they are hell on the street wires and branches – and don’t let one perch over your car. EVER.
    Reply
    No No Fred Hell is in Michigan.
    I don’t know about flying pigs, but I use a butterfly net to catch piglets.(actually fishing net) I though my vet was going to die laughing from sticking the rabies shot in his own arm instead of the piglets butt.

  83. Joe (10:53:58) :
    …. And more trucks pulling said Prius’ out of ditches when the dumb prius owners figured global warming would save them from the snow.
    My friend used his team of oxen to pull out a Caddy in the Boston area much to the horror of the Caddy owner.

  84. Dusty (11:23:07) :
    @hunter (or anyone else)… I am on my phone so i can’t quote but, how much does soot from China and/or other countries come into play wrt Artic ice? I never see it discussed, but it seems to me to make a lot of sense…… Soot absorbing more energy and melting ice and snow. 1 + 1 = ?
    Reply
    A friend living in Alaska said the smog blowing in from China is now awful in her area in Alaska. I think WUWT just had and article on soot a few months ago.

  85. JonesII (11:54:01) :
    Wanna see those climategaters riding real horses at a Houston’s rodeo.☺
    Gee I have some I can donate for a percentage of Big Al’s AGW take. They are the seven I need broken to saddle. One is a very short coupled 1200 lb Halflinger- Quarter horse cross perfect for Big Al…. She’s fast on her feet and even hates men. Do you think they will do?

  86. JerryM (10:55:59) said :
    Yuh know, what with Al Gore not going to the meet-and-greet in Hopenhagen and drag his traditional snow storm along with him, I wondered where he would go to inflict himself on the masses yearning to be freed from AGW. Could it have been HOUSTON?!?!
    I strongly suspect that the Goreacle must have sneaked (snuck?) into town for a little secret fund-raising and a dose of the Gore Effect: (1) earliest snow EVER recorded, (2) FIRST EVER back-to-back years with measurable snow, AND (3) tomorrow we’re forecast to have a record low of ~22 deg F at the airport , beating the previous record for that date by 3 deg F.
    On another note, I think y’all are being too hard on Noel, the poor dear, he MAY simply be out of his depth.
    “Slice your average environment correspondent through the middle and you’re going to find a left-leaning liberal arts graduate who is utterly out of his/her depth. Their world view is being swept from underneath them and they are being shown—in ways that they do not really and have never had to understand—that the guys they thought were the goodies are in fact “at it” and that those they have spent a decade disparaging as deniers were in fact spot on.”
    http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/11/crudgate-why-this-cant-be-swept-under.html
    Perhaps, as an introduction to the “accuracy” of digital numerical analysis, Noel would volunteer to help me with a little Computational Fluid Dynamics problem I’ve got; marine environment, aspect ratio greater than 1000:1 (the proverbial “violin string”) and Reynolds Numbers (no relation) greater than 1E6. ROFLMAO. I accidentally set ONE turbulence variable incorrectly, and the Von Karman “street” (a classic series of turbulent eddies) simply DISAPPEARED. Amazing how computer programs can do that. How ’bout it Noel? We’ve got both FLUENT and CCM+, the same packages used by NASA, Boeing, Mercedes, etc. Should be fun.

  87. The snow was fun and now the temperature’s dropping like a rock- and expected to shatter the previous record. It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas, but maybe not for the AWG morons.

  88. And for Washington DC
    Winter Weather Advisory
    Statement as of 2:17 PM EST on December 04, 2009
    … Winter Weather Advisory in effect from 7 am to 9 PM EST
    Saturday…
    The National Weather Service in Sterling Virginia has issued a
    Winter Weather Advisory for snow… which is in effect from 7 am
    to 9 PM EST Saturday.
    Snow is expected to begin in the Washington DC and Baltimore areas around
    sunrise Saturday. Moderate to heavy snowfall is expected Saturday
    afternoon.
    1 to 2 inches of snow is expected to accumulate before
    tapering off during the evening. Temperatures during the day will
    be in the upper 30s.
    A Winter Weather Advisory means that periods of snow… sleet… or
    freezing rain will cause travel difficulties. Be prepared for
    slippery roads and limited visibilities… and use caution while
    driving.
    http://www.wunderground.com/US/DC/001.html#WIN
    One can hope for a Gore effect.

  89. Man, it is sad when the one of the “best” of the deniers, and a *bleeping* meteorologist, CAN’T DISTINQUISH WEATHER FROM CLIMATE. Oh, wait, he clearly can. Which means his intent is to MISINFORM, and confuse many who do not know the difference.
    Why you guys choose to get your information from such a liar is beyond me.
    Thanks Watts, for outing yourself as a political hack rather than a seeker of truth. Would you please apologize to the world, and then shut the heck up?
    REPLY: Are you unable to read? It appears so. See the first line: “from the weather not climate department” and note the story tags at the bottom: weather, records, snowfall on the story. Don’t like it that I reported on a record weather event? Tough noogies. – A

  90. Winter weather advisory for Vigo…….. Eastern north central Alabama. forecast for up to 2+inches. My o My I hope this warming trend eases off some. I think I might not have enough fire wood for the winter. Hope so guess I will maybe have to get out in the snow tomorrow and try to gather a little more. It seems that everyone had something more important for me to do to gather fire wood. Ya know it isn’t going to be cold anymore global warming don’t ya know.
    The grand kids will have a wonderful time for sure in the morning. HE HE me too. lol just watching the fun.
    Have a wonder ful day tomorrow.
    Bill Derrybery

  91. And in Coppenhagen, we have the Gore effect in reverse; that is, Gore canceled a speaking event and now it appears that the Delegates will be having a “hot” time. (see post on Prostitutes Offer Free Climate Summit S@x).

  92. picture from Houston today on cover of Drudge
    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091204/capt.b7a44635337f4bc384f78fd6762ce355.houston_snow_txps103.jpg?x=400&y=278&q=85&sig=dYmRJOYsn6EfDx1WICR3Kg–
    ——————————————-
    top headlines at Drudge :
    Michigan sees record snow…
    DC Under Winter Weather Advisory…
    Rep. Issa: White House refusal to investigate ‘Climategate’ is ‘unconscionable’…
    Day Fourteen and Counting: Major U.S. Networks Still Silent…
    Danish Speaker of Parliament: Climate Change ‘Very Dangerous Claim’…
    Denmark: not as green as you thought…
    http://www.drudgereport.com/
    p.s. Drudge gets more than 20 million hits a day! 🙂
    ———————————-
    I ♥ ClimateGate
    ———————————-

  93. Yes, I can read, hence my “Oh, wait, he clearly can”. But why would you have a “weather department”? TO CONFUSE. Anyone who deliberately fuels mistaken arguments is dishonest at a fundamental level, and should both apologize, then get out of the way of the rest of humanity.
    Your job is to *correct* bad arguments, not juice ones that you know are false just because it confuses people who aren’t as into the details as we are. Actually, I find one of the key distinctions between reasonable people and partisan hacks is the willingness of the former to correct the mistaken arguments of people who are arguing FOR the position the reasonable person supports. You have clearly revealed which group you lie in.

  94. Jim Cantore is in Houston! WT..! It seems he should be at a receding glacier not at record early snow.

  95. Chad, what gives you the right to make demands on this blog?
    I find these “weather not climate” stories quite entertaining. I also believe most people commenting here understand the difference between weather and climate.
    Would you please apologize to Anthony, and then shut the heck up?

  96. AdderW (10:20:51) : Please enlighten me, I am not familiar with the Texas weather, what is considered normal weather this time of year
    Hot, or hotter, except for the occasional rain, with very rare snow, but sometimes not… Houston is on the Gulf Coast so all that warm air typically keeps it on the edge of tropical. They grow oranges a bit to the south, for example. But it is close enough to the center of the country that sometimes a Canada Express runs ’em down… But 3 years of snow in a row is unheard of… Oh, and they get the sporadic hurricane from time to time… think “tropical storm zone”…
    John Galt (11:26:29) : Caught between a Fraud and a Cold Place.
    How could you! Another cup of tea meets an unexpected end… Note to self: I will NOT sip as I read…
    Power Grab (12:57:12) : I think what we need is a massive deprogramming effort if we hope to ever straighten out the AGW culters.
    Who knows how to deprogram?

    Yes, it’s pretty easy. Take away their gasoline and snow blower. Issue snow shoes for trek to work. Issue shovel for clearing driveway and sidewalk. Offer cold soup (no stove…) and frozen TV dinner (still no stove). Wait…
    Chad (19:00:48) : Man, it is sad when the one of the “best” of the deniers, and a *bleeping* meteorologist, CAN’T DISTINQUISH WEATHER FROM CLIMATE. Oh, wait, he clearly can. Which means his intent is to MISINFORM, and confuse many who do not know the difference.
    Well, since the AGW crowd regularly confuses the 30 year average of weather with climate (a property of an area dependent on it’s latitude, altitude, distance from water… i.e. invariant physical propereties) It is not surprising that you would be confused too.
    To be clear: You can change climate in a place by moving mountain ranges, shifting latitude, moving it away from or toward the ocean. Otherwise you are just talking about long term weather trends. There are 176-200 year cycles, and there are 60 year PDO cycles AND THEY ARE ALL WEATHER. So as soon as th warmists figure out that a 30 year average of weather is not climate then you might begin to find a tiny little clue. Until then, you are clearly sans clue.

    Why you guys choose to get your information from such a liar is beyond me.
    Thanks Watts, for outing yourself as a political hack rather than a seeker of truth. Would you please apologize to the world, and then shut the heck up?

    And do you spit in punch bowls when you are a party guest? Pee in the pool? Like to get sloppy drunk and hit on the spouses? Please, Sirah, some manners are in order. I can personally attest to about 1 year plus of not a single lie from our host. There is no deception to be found here.
    Besides, you do seem to have “issues” with reading. More on that below.
    Chad (20:25:21) : Yes, I can read, hence my “Oh, wait, he clearly can”. But why would you have a “weather department”? TO CONFUSE.
    Oh Pauhleez… Someone makes a clear statement of category and you turn it into some bizzaro world inverted logic of conspiracy to deception? You’ve been hanging out with the UEA folks too much. Some folks actually mean what they say and know “what is is”… If I said “Today is Friday” do you take that to mean that I’m really saying “Today is a week ago and Monday”?
    Maybe sometimes when someone talks about a cigar, it is just a cigar…
    Your job is to *correct* bad arguments,
    Um, pardon me, but NO. Anthony is free to define “his job” as anything he damn well pleases. Now, about that reading problem of yours. Please see the MASTHEAD at the top. THE thing that defines the purpose of this site. That defines Anthony’s “job”.
    Now read it carefully. Notice it says: … ” nature, science, weather,”…
    So Anthony has clearly stated (for at least a year plus that I know of) that his interest is weather and he will comment on it.
    I personally thank him for it. I have family in Texas and like to get weather stories about them.
    Now you may come here with some “Nothing but AGW exists” chip on your shoulder, but the rest of us: 1) Have a life. 2) Have other interests too. and 3) Know not to tell the host what they may or may not serve at their party. AND we have chosen to be here because of the excellent fare. Including weather. (In fact, often weather. The whole discussion of PDO impacts on weather was fascinating for me. Had no idea it existed before being educated about that 60 year weather influence with 30 year flips).
    not juice ones that you know are false just because it confuses people who aren’t as into the details as we are.
    There is absolutely NOTHING false in this story. And that shows what camp YOU are in. And the only person “confused” here seems to be you. So take a minute to suck down a couple of more Starbucks to get your brain kick started then re-read the masthead and the story lead-in line. The words spoken (or typed) mean exactly what they say. I know it’s a hard concept for AGW advocates to accept, but we actually use words as they are and not as re-imagined.
    Yes, a story about weather on a site that is interested in weather from a weather man told to people interested in the weather. Gee, kind of make more sense now?
    Heck, some of us are even interested in the 30 year average of weather that the AGW folks mistakenly label “climate”…
    Now, If I may make one final suggestion:
    If you can not be polite in public, consider a class in social skills. If not, then investigate an anger management consult. If you can’t do any of that, at least spare the rest of us your invective and go somewhere else. I really don’t like to watch people make damn fools of themselves in public.

  97. It’s seems to me that mr. Smith is re-inventing what climate means.
    Sure latitude, altitude, continentality and other things make the foundation for climate But dude, nobodys shifting mountain ranges here. Those cycles you are talking about are part of climate, not weather. If not, can you please give me the references of those studies which talk about those cycles as a part of weather phenomenons?
    And this has absolutely nothing to do with “warmists” or “sceptics”.

  98. Chad (20:25:21) :
    But why would you have a “weather department”?
    It’s his place — he can decorate it any way he wants.
    TO CONFUSE.
    Majoring in Leaping to Conclusions 101 at present?
    Anyone who deliberately fuels mistaken arguments is dishonest at a fundamental level, and should both apologize, then get out of the way of the rest of humanity.
    Okay, you’ve done a sterling job of attempting to fuel a nonexistent argument. Apology accepted, troll.

  99. Anthony spouts about weather to confuse, and for no other reason. Indeed, I have seen at least five instances of deniers referencing this post in “defense” of their mis-begotten beliefs. This is clearly Anthony’s intent.
    [snip]
    REPLY: Chad you are entitled to your opinion, however if you want to say what you just said in this blog, I’m going to require you to put your full name to it here. If you want to insult and accuse, at least have the courage to put your name to it. Otherwise shut the hell up – Anthony Watts

  100. I’m sure Chad and other like him are ready to denounce the following example of news articles which are, of course, pervasive throughout the MSM:
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1295/is_10_65/ai_78966426/
    Arctic Heat Wave – effects of global warming on the environment in the Arctic
    Progressive, The, Oct, 2001 by Bruce E. Johansen, Robert T. Reilly
    It’s another warm day in Iqaluit, capital of the new semi-sovereign Inuit nation of Nunavit in the Canadian Arctic. The bizarre weather is the talk of the town. The urgency of global warming is on everyone’s lips.
    While George W. Bush stalls with talk about needing “sound science,” the temperature hit 82 degrees Fahrenheit on July 28 in this Baffin Island community that nudges the Arctic Circle. That’s thirty-five degrees above the July average of 47, making it comparable to a 115- to 120-degree day in New York City or Chicago.
    It is the warmest summer anyone in the area can remember. Swallows, sandflies, and robins are making their debuts, and pine pollen is affecting people as never before. Travelers joke about forgetting their shorts, sunscreen, and mosquito repellant–all now necessary equipment for a globally warmed arctic summer.

    And I’m sure he was all over the MSM for publishing stories suggesting how hurricane Katrina or the 2007 arctic ice minimum etc. etc. were due to global warming and of course were all GWB’s fault because he hadn’t signed on to Kyoto…
    Finally, I believe most here know that weather is not climate. But, then again, a lot of things aren’t climate:
    * Computer models aren’t climate (particularly GISS Model E)
    * The monthly HADCRUT, RSS, UAH, NCDC, GISS “global temperature” numbers aren’t climate (though averaging these over 30 years would perhaps be, if we can believe their data processing methods)
    * The yearly ice scare stories in June – September from the NSIDC aren’t climate
    * Tree ring “proxies” aren’t climate
    * … and so on …

  101. I was in OKC in the mid 1980s, my first morning the big news on TV was snow on the Alamo, as for dates all I can remember is that I also watched the SuperBowl match during the same 10-14 day visit.
    I can remember that it was well below zero (Celsius) in OKC but the air was dry and there was no real visible frost or ice, but the carparks were slippy and if you touched anything metal your glove tended to stick to it.
    How do current conditions compare?
    Alex

  102. Unfortunately, here in Northern Vt USA, temps have been 10-15 degrees F above normal lately and warmer than norm throughout November. Ski areas have been unable to make snow-and most have still not opened (2-3 weeks behind opening day) as of Friday. Maybe today they can make snow and open a trail or two..

  103. Chad (05:50:58) :
    Chad, my man, we are not confused in any way. We’ve been seeing quite well all along. And what we find in ClimateGate confirms that we have been seeing it all with 20/20 vision since the beginning!!
    BTW, has there been any good news coming your way in a while? It’s been years. So I can understand your frustration. Not only has ClimateGate come out but Al Gore canceled his Copenhagen appearance. Sucks to be a warmer. If you watch the Watson—Morano video maybe hearing what
    Watson said will be cathartic for you.
    ————-
    But I have to hand it to you; no other trolls are daring to come out.

  104. Chad (19:00:48) :
    CAN’T DISTINQUISH WEATHER FROM CLIMATE
    Chad, no need to yell. It belies insecurity.

  105. Look up climate zones. These zones are perfect examples of climate based on address: IE topography, location relative to jet stream influences, and typical pressure gradients. Understanding of climate zones have been used for decades to guide agricultural practices and to genetically develop plants and even animals suited for specific climate zones. Weather meanders from day to day, month to month, year to year, and decade to decade according to random and oscillating algorithms. There are known drivers of weather oscillations and well as unknown drivers. In additions land use patterns will have a decided affect on weather oscillations. But climate is bounded by physical parameters and that will always be the case till those physical parameters change their GPS address.

  106. Michael (11:19:37) :
    noel (11:04:06) :
    “What are you guys going to say when the arctic sea is clear? It was always like that?”
    Actually Noel, it was, IN 1954!
    Bastardi used this photograph of a U.S. submarine at the North Pole on March 17, 1954 to illustrate his point that Arctic ice can be highly variable. See picture in this news atricle.
    http://www.climatechangefraud.com/climate-reports/5053-accuweathers-joe-bastardi-presses-case-against-global-warming-theory
    Read this: http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

  107. Probably this is old news, but according that strong warmer, Roy Spencer, the global mean temp for Nov 2009 was the highest for the period of such calculations from 1979 to present. According to his data, it looks that the warm temperatures occurred maining in the northern hemisphere, the southern hemisphere and the tropics. Perhaps we should not believe Spencer, because, afterall, he does have a Ph.D.

  108. Notice that for climate zoning information used for agricultural purposes, the average minimum temperature is calculated over a 60 year period. Why? Because for agricultural purposes (IE in order to feed the world), natural extremes must be taken into account, and in particular minimum extremes. This information is only reliable if as many extremes as possible are entered into the record. Or else the risk is too high and crops are destroyed. Note that the minimum extreme is far more important than the maximum extreme for food production. This is real climate folks: the extremes within the climate zones. That includes record early freezes. The weather is everything inbetween. So when a record early freeze is noted within the 60 year period, the climate zone parameter needs to be adjusted so that agricultural production risk is lowered. You can’t keep planting something that freezes periodically. Farmers need to pay attention to climate zone records or else you folks don’t eat.

  109. Farmers need to pay attention to climate zone records or else you folks don’t eat. Pam Gray
    There you have it! All land temperature monitoring stations should be located on farm land.
    Thank you, Pam.

  110. Most of the snow has melted since the sun came out. It’s 2:42 pm and there’s only a tad left on my roof. As for this being an odd single event, nope. It snowed last year, 2008 on Dec 10th; much more too. As a child, I remember it snowing every year; our family album is filled with huge snow falls and snowmen we made with neighborhood kids. I read somewhere that it has only snowed in Houston 33 times in the city’s history. Bullshit, total BS. What is that, the freemason’s climate history? 🙂 The more we move toward a communist regime, everything the MS media pumps out is propaganda for “someone’s” agenda.
    jb

  111. Pamela Gray, you and E.M. Smith, reminding us of what is climate and what is weather. Thanks. In 21st century terms, climate has a GPS identifier connected to it, not a time period such as 30 years. And, yes, food aka farm crops on which the world’s population depends is the primary issue, isn’t it. I agree with Back2Bat. All temperature stations should be located on farm land. Those at airports should be for aviation. Our stomachs know the difference.

  112. “Reminding what climate is” <- that should be redefining.
    To me climate is the long term average and weather is the present, or short term, state of athmospheric conditions. And these conditions a related to location and many other things.
    I haven't seen any papers that talk multidecadal conditions as weather. Feel free to show some!

  113. Sami Nila (01:11:35) :
    It’s seems to me that mr. Smith is re-inventing what climate means.

    Nope. Just using the older original definition. The one that gave us names like “Mediterranean Climate” and “Alpine Climate”. You can not get an “Alpin Climate” on a Mediterranean beach, even when it snows in Marseille. The definition I was taught in school prior to the computer and video game era.
    The “30 year average of weather” came about as a kluge to let the climate nintendo boys play with the limited data they had. It is fundamentally an error.
    But dude, nobodys shifting mountain ranges here.
    And that is exactly my point. The whole notion of “climate change” is broken, at it’s core. Most of the time I go along with “the polite lie” of 30 year weather averages as a proxy for climate, but it is important to realize: It is a “polite lie”. A proxy of convenience.
    If not, can you please give me the references of those studies which talk about those cycles as a part of weather phenomenons?
    My high school natural history text book, my university geology book (sorry lost titles for both about 30 years ago…), and several desktop atlases I’ve had over the years including one from Readers Digest in about 1968? that my Mom bought and one from about 1990 by Rand McNally that I bought.
    Now if you want a source more recent and want a “peeer reeviewd articl from a journal” well we’vee all seen what the peer review procss has become.
    (Sorry about the “E”s, my ‘e’ key is dying and if I type fast it freeeks out. I either back up a lot, type at 1 wpm or…)

    And this has absolutely nothing to do with “warmists” or “sceptics”.

    Ah, but it does. It was the warmists who chose to redefine “climate” as a 30 year average of weather… Those who forget their history…
    Sami Nila (08:39:56) : To me climate is the long term average and weather is the present, or short term, state of athmospheric conditions. And these conditions a related to location and many other things.
    Then you have swallowed the first and most basic of the AGW dceptions.
    BTW: Accuweather’s Joe Bastardi is prdicting a “Real Blizzard from Kansas to th Great Lakes… and then it will get WORSE…”

  114. Heere is a nice littl primer on climate:
    http://www.cgrove417.org/fry/Science/Climate/climatezones.html
    It starts off by saying that the first division is into 3 major zones:

    The three major climate zones on the Earth are the polar, temperate, and tropical zones. Temperatures in these three climate zones are determined mainly by the location, or latitude, of the zone.

    By latitude. Weather need not apply.
    About temperate dserts, they say:

    Deserts in the temperate zones are usually located inland, far away from the oceans. The winds that blow across these inland deserts carry little moisture. Inland deserts are found in Australia (the Great Sandy Desert) and Central Asia (the Gobi Desert).

    Notice the reference to distance from ocean? Notice the lack of discussion of weather?
    How about some tropical descriptions:
    The tropical zones, which extend from 30 degrees north and south latitude to the equator (0 degrees) have high temperatures and high humidity. Precipitation in the tropical zones is usually very heavy during part of the year. Tropical zones are also known as low latitude climates.
    Gee, latitude again. And not weather…

    Tropical climates have the warmest average yearly temperatures. There is no winter in tropical climates. In a tropical climate, the average temperature during the coldest month of the year does not fall below 18 degrees C.

    There is a temperature description as hot. So as you go up a mountain in the tropics you can reach an Alpine temperature regime. At the margin this might allow an alpine climate zone to move up and down slope by a minor smidgeon if the freeze line moves. But the entire alpine climate zone stays defined by it’s altitude, which is where you find cold in the tropical band.

    In the tropical zones, many deserts are located on the western coasts of continents. This is because the prevailing winds in the tropical zones (the northeast and southeast trades) blow from east to west.

    Geee, and the tropical band desert climatees tend to be defined by prevailing winds and position on the continent… not weather…
    I could go on, but I won’t. You can do the looking yourself.
    The bottom line is that real climate zones are not changed by more or less storms in one year, or by a drought the next. They are changed by Latitude, Altitude, and Distance to Ocean. They are moderated by wind patterns and ocean currents (such as the Humbolt of th coast of California that gives us a coastal Mediterranean climate) that persist for generations and have cyclical moveements measured in decades (i.e. 60 year cycle for PDO) but do not change the climate definition: California coastal was a “Mediterranean Climate zone” in 1950, in 1970 during the ice age scare, in 1990 during the warming scare, and will stay a Mediterranean Climate as we enter the Gore Cold Period happening now. (Accompanied, btw, by drought – but that doees not turn us into a desert climate zone… And the Mojave STAYS a desert climate zone, even when it rains a lot in some decades…)
    Oh, and th Sierra Nevada Mountains stay an Alpine Climate zone, even when we have almost no snow and the skii resorts shut down, just as it does when we have 18 feet of snow 30 years out of cycle.
    Weather is NOT part of the definition of Climate Zones. Thus, not a definition of Climate. But the 30 year average of weather is a PROXY of CONVENIENCE in “Global Warming / Climate Change” research.
    And I’m sure we are all comfortable with blindly accepting proxies unexamined… /sarcoff>

  115. Bill D (10:14:40) : Probably this is old news, but according that strong warmer, Roy Spencer, the global mean temp for Nov 2009 was the highest for the period of such calculations from 1979 to present.
    Unless such a statemnt is accompanied by a lineage of the data used, it is void of meaning. We know that NCDC in GHCN has throughly biased the data with thermometer deletions. We know that UEA was cooking the CRUt books in a variety of imaginative ways. We know that GIStemp uses GHCN (so is flawed from the start) and does “broken things” to the data after that.
    So: What “Non-NCDC/GHCN, Non-CRUt, Non-GIStemp” data series was used in this calculation? What is the provenance of the data? Don’t have it? then there is no conclusion of merit. Sorry.
    According to his data,
    EXACTLY which data is it, and with what provenance? As we’ve seen, that matters…
    it looks that the warm temperatures occurred maining in the northern hemisphere, the southern hemisphere and the tropics.
    It happened “mostly” in the top half, the bottom half and all the middle? That seems a bit, er, muddled.. How can it be “mostly in the whole thing”?
    Perhaps we should not believe Spencer, because, afterall, he does have a Ph.D.
    A Ph.D. is irrelevant to the question. Have one or not doesn’t mean much any more. We’ve seen that those folks with one often have no moral compass, but at the same time those folks most prone to point out that lack of compass to the perpetrators have also been so equipped with a Ph.D. Having one has not prevented folks from being deceived by others, but has sometimes been present in the folks shining light on the deception. It is an orthogonal point.
    A Ph.D. is testimony to a certain level of specific knowledge, but not to any standard of morality nor of care, nor to knowledge outside that very find focus. And non-Ph.Ds can get the same level of knowledge if they care to apply themselves (though without the credential and general recognition until they demonstrate merit through deeds.) If that specific level of knowledge in that particular field, it’s a nice credential to have, but not sufficient to demonstrate validity nor falsehood.
    “Appeal to Authority” is a broken argument, from either side.

  116. One more in the its weather not climate…
    It snowed here in the SF Bay Area overnight, leaving a nice covering on the hilltops this morning (Dec 7). In the time I’ve lived here (about 30 years) it’s snowed three times, this is the earliest it’s happened – the others were in Jan/Feb.
    cheers,
    Robert

  117. Smith. I’m well aware of climate zones and the causes behind them. Those same causes you mentioned also make the foundation for weather of a certain place.
    Did you know that the most used climate zone classification (Köppens’) is derived from average annual precipitation, average monthly precipitation, and average monthly temperature. Yes, the average weather conditions. So climate zones change too, if the average weather (climate) changes enough!
    (about Marseille example: yes, mountain climates only appear in mountains.)
    “Climate: generalized statement of the prevailing WEATHER CONDITIONS at a GIVEN PLACE, based on statistics of a long period of record … ”
    Says Strahler & Strahler: Physical geography – Science and systems of the human environment. 2005: 751p. Guess they are warmists too? 🙂

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