From a Texas A&M Press Release
Is there such a thing as “weather” on Mars? There are some doubts, considering the planet’s atmosphere is only 1 percent as dense as that of the Earth. Mars, however, definitely has clouds, drastically low temperatures and out-of-this-world dust storms, and Istvan Szunyogh, a Texas A&M professor of atmospheric sciences, has been awarded a NASA grant to analyze and forecast Martian weather.
Mars is the most Earth-like planet we know, but it is still quite different. For example, it is much colder on Mars.
The south pole of the Earth is covered by water ice, but the south pole of Mars wears a dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) cap. In winter, the temperature at the poles can dip to -140°C (-220 degrees Fahrenheit), which is so cold that even carbon dioxide freezes.
“Planet-encircling Martian dust storms, which occur every two to four Mars years, can cover the whole planet with dust for months,” notes Szunyogh, who is working with colleagues from the University of Maryland and the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, N.J., to forecast Martian weather.
Why care about weather on Mars? After all, nobody lives, works or goes to school there.
“Martian weather forecasts, in the short term, can drastically increase the safety of landing robotic exploration missions,” comments colleague Mark Lemmon, a Texas A&M professor of atmospheric sciences who has led or participated in many Mars exploratory events. “In the long run, it is indispensible for the safe returning of astronauts in future manned explorations.
“The two rovers currently working on Mars are solar-powered, and their lives end when their batteries run out,” Lemmon adds. “Dust storms block the sun and shorten their battery life, and winds, on the other hand, can clear their solar panels so their batteries recharge faster.”
Weather forecasting is not tossing dice. It must build on solid data.
“All weather forecasts, including those on TV, are based on model forecasts of the different physical parameters of the Earth’s atmosphere such as temperature, wind and pressure,” Szunyogh says. “The main goal of our project is to explore the possibility of obtaining accurate quantitative estimates of these parameters of the Martian atmosphere.
“These parameters will be obtained from the available remotely sensed Martian observations,” he adds. “Then the data can be fed into Mars global circulation models, producing Martian weather forecasts like what we have for Earth.”
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Well, I see a point to it. It has the same falsifiability than those IPCC models, so it may be used in support of the later.
Anthony, you should apply to be the first Martian Meteorologist.
REPLY: definitely a title I don’t want. -A
“Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids…”
I think I will apply for a grant to forecast the weather on Titan.
In fact, here is my first report… it’s going to be a very cold and very foggy day. It will be -290 degrees Fahrenheit for the day and -290 degrees Fahrenheit for the night… and a little methane rainfall tonight. Make sure to plug in your cars tonight.
Your tax dollars at work. This is the most useless idea I’ve heard of in a long time.
The irony here is that weather/climate forecasting models don’t work for this planet, so…….
“The south pole of the Earth is covered by water ice, but the south pole of Mars wears a dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) cap. In winter, the temperature at the poles can dip to -140°C (-220 degrees Fahrenheit), which is so cold that even carbon dioxide freezes.”
What’s that noise?
Oh, it’s Steven Goddard gnashing his teeth.
:o)
That’s just a great post. Really interesting.
Electric Dust Devils
“It’s now official that dust devils on Earth exhibit strong electric fields, in excess of 4,000 volts per meter. They generate magnetic fields as well. The researchers who made the discovery added the qualification ‘”on Earth”‘ because the discovery was a surprise. They cannot be certain that it applies to the dust devils on Mars because their purely mechanical model did not predict the electrical effects found in earthly dust devils.
~~~
‘The 5 mile high dust devils on Mars and the global Martian dust storms are, I believe, a manifestation of electric discharges on Mars. In the very low atmospheric pressure lightning would be more like a diffuse auroral glow. The problem of generating dust storms on Mars is how to get the particles on the surface to “saltate”, or leave the surface, with such little force in the wind. Electrostatic forces could easily do the job.’
~~~~~~
‘Make no mistake, the Martian dust devils are tornadoes that dwarf their earthly counterpart. It shows that clouds are not required to generate them. They are an atmospheric electric discharge phenomenon.’
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=zg70y10m
“[…] and forecast Martian weather. […]”
Let’s get Earth’s right first. Then maybe we can think about Mars. ;o)
Okay. So if someone can accurately predict the start, start location, and duration of Martian dust storms then I think they might be on to something.
(I can see the researcher now. “Beaker, I want you to nip up to Mars tomorrow and release a couple of weather ballons, got that?” Beaker: “Nyeep-Nyeep.”)
Forecasting weather (on Mars, in Texas, or elsewhere) is like voting liberal – pointless. Another proverbial nail in the coffin of common sense.
I don’t know…I can see value in using the other planets as a sort of control group to finally put AGW to rest once and for all. The sun is the main driver of climate change on earth and presumably the other planets. Therefore the climates of the planets within a stone’s throw of earth – the ones that are within reach of our technological ability to remotely monitor their climates – should warm a cool together? Is this reasonable?
LOL… NASA/NOAA can’t even predict the weather here on earth…
Wasn’t Mars warming rapidly a couple of years ago? I think that the ice caps were rapidly diminishing. Maybe there is a common thread here?
“Let’s get Earth’s right first. Then maybe we can think about Mars. ;o” H.R.
I would bet that you have it backwards.
“Planet-encircling Martian dust storms, which occur every two to four Mars years, can cover the whole planet with dust for months,”
“The two rovers currently working on Mars are solar-powered, and their lives end when their batteries run out,” Lemmon adds. “Dust storms block the sun and shorten their battery life, and winds, on the other hand, can clear their solar panels so their batteries recharge faster.”
The rovers were expected to only last 90 days. If NASA isn’t able to land a 90 day mission in a two year window between dust storms I don’t think getting Aggies to help is the answer. Hook ’em Horns!
Harold Vance (15:10:45) :
Here’s one story I’ve come across, but Mars is a completely different situation … 😉
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
If Mars is warming, I can’t see Congress taxing us to ‘fix’ it. They might try, except for the laughter. So perhaps not so bad. Keeps the researcher from publishing something that will raise our taxes.
If I recall, Mars doesn’t have much of a magnetic field, so dust storms and discharges from them don’t tell us much about our rock.
Maybe they should fill up a rocket with Mini-Stevenson Screens, send it to Mars and eject those everywhere around the planet and the poles. Once they are all installed and emitting, then Anthony’s Surface Station Project Team can go around and survey the environment around the probes. 😉
I don’t know about day to day weather, but there may be some value in keeping an eye on the Martian climate. As Mars does not have oceans with thermal inertia, climate variation due to solar variability may be more directly observable. Dr.Abdussamatov gave a whole page to this in his recent paper. Given that the icecaps on Mars have been observed for some time and that the orbital distance of Mars can be corrected for, a study of Martian climate could help clear up problems with TSI reconstructions and reinterpretations.
I thought we had a thread here that proved carbon dioxide doesn’t freeze ?
Perhaps the Martians painted their polar caps white to prevent global warming, and look what happened. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to keep getting re-elected.
I wonder what weather he’s trying to predict? Windy or not windy seem to be the only choices.
And exactly how was this a surprise, it has been well known for the better part of a century that blowing dust builds up static charges. The Germans developed a dust powered fuse for medium caliber cannon shells (37 mm -50mm) which is sometimes referred to as the “dust fuze”. The warhead had a cavity filled with talcum powder that was ported to allow airflow to agitate the dust as the shell went down range. The turbulent mixing of the air and dust generated a static electrical charge that was sufficient to trigger the electrical detonator when a switch closed on impact.
PP182 Illustrated Encyclopedia of Ammunition Ian V. Hogg.
Likewise dust agitation in volcanic plumes has been accepted as the mechanism for intense lightning discharges during volcanic eruptions.
The interaction of dust and a helicopters rotors also is well known to generate sufficient static charge on the helicopter to cause potentially lethal shocks to ground troops when hooking up sling loads unless safely discharged by dipping the sling hook to the ground first or using a grounding pole to discharge the air frame of a hovering helicopter before anyone touches the lift hook.
The static is generated by the motion of the dust not the other way around.
Larry
I suppose in theory it is easier to forecast weather on Mars-there is a pretty thin atmosphere and not much of that all important weather substance water.
NEVERTHELESS! There are still problems with the idea of predicting weather on any planet.
Here is what I DEMAND to know! Why do we care what the weather will be like on Mars, huh? Why not invest on TERRESTRIAL weather forecasting??? Isn’t that a LITTLE more important???
I’m surprised by the anti-science, anti-exploration attitude some commentators here have expressed.
Mars has fronts, cyclonic systems and snow. Probably running water from time to time.
It isn’t nearly as cold as some here claimed. Summer tropical temps are around 86F for the high. At the poles, in the year-long night, C02 does freeze out. But not at 220 below – that would do a great deal more than add a temporary layer of dry ice.
“If Mars is warming, I can’t see Congress taxing us to ‘fix’ it.”
I can! ROFL