UPDATE: At first I was concerned about this poll and the language involved. Now from comments I’m seeing a number of people whom aren’t worried and see an opportunity to voice their opinion. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide if they wish to participate. – Anthony
Wow, just wow. Who would think we’d see this sort of language and lack of sound judgment from a science museum? In the Now playing at a museum near you, the “Day After Tomorrow Map” thread, something interesting was discovered.
Once you click the “count me out” button, you enter a netherworld of governmental lists. The London Science Museum might want to think about redoing this web feature. The images are below, here’s the link.
Okay…now look what happens when you click “COUNT ME OUT”. Yellow highlighter mine.
Not only is this insulting and threatening to the reader, it virtually ensures that all responses logged by the London Science Museum are “COUNT ME IN” if you originally chose to vote otherwise.
Future presentation of results to the government: “The results show overwhelmingly that people agree with us. Hardly anyone chose COUNT ME OUT.
Even with the caveat the list*, how many people would trust it? I wouldn’t. I doubt many people even get to the caveat. The main statement is just too worrisome.
Perhaps the “COUNT ME OUT” respondents get a visit from these chaps? 😉
To be fair, respondents get a similar message if they choose to be counted in.
However, one wonders how many people will respond at all once they see that language.
The Science Museum really ought to pull this feature or redo language in it in my opinion.
h/t to alert WUWT reader coddbotherer
UPDATE: 10/24 @11:30PM
It appears some robovoting hit this poll. Robert Phelan’s letter pretty well sums up my thinking on this issue.
Sirs:
By now you must be aware that your on-line Prove It poll was seriously compromised. I voted “count-me-out” once under my own name, but after the individual who corrupted your poll revealed himself, I tested your polling system with two consecutive “count-me-in” votes, which were both apparently accepted.
Leaving aside my distaste for your support of politicized, Lysenko-style “science”, as both a social scientist and computer systems consultant I respect data and am appalled by the shoddy manner in which your organization collected it. A few suggestions:
1. State clearly the purpose of your poll and exactly which data will be used for that purpose.
2. You stated that you would pass the results to the government:
a. if the results had fairly resulted in a “count-me-out” majority, would those results have been passed on?
b. it would be helpful top explain what you would do with the comments you requested from the “count-me-outs”;
c. since the results were to be passed, presumably, to the UK government, foreigners such as myself should have been excluded from the voting. Checking the IP location of voters should be easy.
3. No one, either inside the UK or outside received the follow up e-mail. The explanation provided about ensuring one vote per person, frankly, makes no sense.
4. Maintaining a confidential list of voter names, e-mail addresses and IP’s to verify non-duplication would be easy. Making the voting a two-step process, where the voter had to respond to a follow-on e-mail would be even more secure.
5. Maintaining a list of non-acceptable names for screening: Joseph Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse-tung and Mickey Mouse all claimed to have voted no, as did Keith Briffa, Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen.
7. Create a display page where interested persons can view the names who have voted. Given the politicized nature of the topic, a unified alphabetical list would be appropriate.
8. Test the security of your poll before putting it on-line. Find a good hacker and pay him only if he succeeds in breaking into your system.
If you people can’t even run an on-line poll, why should anyone consider your opinions on climate? If this poll was so important that you needed two ministers of HMG to introduce it, why didn’t you get it done right?
I intend my suggestions to be helpful; if you find them so then I would be glad to be of further assistance. I am bitterly opposed to the position you have taken on “AGW” but I would not allow that to interfere with my professionalism.
Oh, one last suggestion. Don’t even try to salvage the results of this poll. Wipe them, make the changes I’ve suggested and start again.
Robert E. Phelan
Adjunct Instructor of Sociology
Business Systems and Automation Consultant
A commenter on our site, “lihard” has seemingly confessed to adding a thousand votes via a script. There was a period of about 15 minutes where the count jumped about 1000 votes. It appears “lihard” was at fault as he pre-announced it here in comments. Of course there was little anyone could do about it. I speak for myself and the moderation staff in saying we strongly object and are offended by his ballot stuffing and want to make clear that it is not condoned in any way. Whether or not the poll was put together with apparently no security in place does not justify any kind of dishonest activity.
However, since that burst (if indeed he, lihard, did one) the vote count has steadily risen, I believe those to be valid. If the Science Museum has any logs, they should be able to filter those ~1000 in question out. I hope they do.
I don’t condone ballot stuffing in any form. Unfortunately it can happen when polls like this one don’t appear to have the most basic simplistic security. The interesting thing here is that if anybody wanting to stuff the poll, no matter what side of the argument they are on, could easily have done so. No special skills are needed to boost the counter…just keep clicking the submit button. Any kid can do it.
Perhaps the Science Museum didn’t think of security for cyberspace like they do for their exhibits. The internet is a harsh place and prone to such things. The lack of due diligence for security is as troubling as the language they used which originally caught my attention.
The polls we do here at WUWT don’t suffer from these problems, as they have anti-ballot stuffing security built in courtesy of WordPress. I hope that the Science Museum will upgrade their poll security if they choose to continue with it. Also for the record, you’ll find me logged once in poll, shortly after posting this story on 11/23 approximately 9:30-10AM PST, with my full name and email address given. If anyone from the Science Museum (or the UK government) wishes to contact me, they can use that email address. – Anthony
We , the sheeple, get brainwashed by these overpaid winkers.
I voted “count me out” and submitted the comment:
Your “How do we know humans are responsible” page says:
“The climate change we are experiencing cannot be explained by natural causes.”
I see no supporting evidence, so your assertion simply begs the question.
Your poll seems aimed at getting the answer you want. Hardly scientific, and you are the science museum! I used to believe in AGW and could not understand why anyone would not believe in it. Then I looked into the arguments more closely. I am a working scientist with a degree in geophysics and I now believe most climate change is natural.
I am counted out, too. Anthony, why not publicise and encourage other visitors to WUWT to log their view via this poll too?
Mickey Mouse just counted himself out three times…
Too bad it’s only in China that the government climatologists understand (from the article linked by Ron de Haan):
It is easier to stay independent of the climate paranoia if one does not believe the planet is in peril. Xiao Ziniu, director general of the Beijing Climate Centre, told the British Guardian newspaper recently that “There is no agreed conclusion about how much change is dangerous….Whether the climate turns warmer or cooler, there are both positive and negative effects….In Chinese history, there have been many periods warmer than today.” He disputed the disaster warnings of the UNIPCC, saying, “The accuracy of the prediction is very low because the climate is affected by many mechanisms we do not fully understand.”
That’s me counted out. It’s now standing at 339 in and 328 out. The “outs” are catching up!
Leif please advise if you get any confirming emails. I think perhaps they filter non UK IP addresses.
In the bottom right of the museum page http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/proveit.aspx I found this inquiry:
“Got an opinion?
If you’re not convinced by the evidence, tell us what you think. ”
I then submitted the following:
“Try this for your map name: “Day After Tomorrow Map in 15 million – 100,002,060 years: possibly the next natural “Hothouse Age””.
Are you fossils nuts? Check the AGW predictions! They’ve all been disproven, so far. AGW only exists in ill-based models that have failed. First YOU need to PROVE those failed predictions correct.
Wy are you are eager to destroy your country just to enrich Al Gore’s and George Soro’s pockets – and over a giant fraud?
You have my permission to print this response – internationally.”
A bit blunt and brash – guilty. I did submit my email and will be making the most of my remaining hours or days.
Can we all use the names of well known AGW supporters?????
It’s well known in police states that voting counts are very different if the ballots are secret, thought to be secret but aren’t or are known NOT to be secret.
In the UK right now, you wouldn’t say you were against global warming if you are ambitious. Unless the vote WAS secret.
You will be ‘economically disadvantaged’, is the phrase I believe.
The Labour Party doesn’t DO democracy. It just has to be seen to.
It’s very sad that this country is so immature that political views count for more than competence.
But they do.
It’s why we’re headed toward bankruptcy.
wattsupwiththat (10:27:57) :
Leif please advise if you get any confirming emails. I think perhaps they filter non UK IP addresses.
340 out, 339 in. No email [using my correct address] yet.
The reason is simple to understand, the science museum wants funding and who now holds the science funding purse strings?
The government now holds a sword of Damocles over every science group in the UK, they toe the party line and they get funds aplenty, they have the temerity to actually want to stick to the scientific method, they get nothing.
Its Stalins hearts and minds campaign, when you have them by the balls their hearts will follow OR when you pays the piper you calls the tune.
The outs are now ahead. Wonder how many are actually duplicates though.
Re: michel (10:01:38) :
> There is in fact quite a lot of very legitimate debate in the UK about climate.
There is no debate in the UK. The powers that be have decided that man is to blame for climate change and no deviation from this viewpoint is allowed or tolerated.
You can discuss/debate what the impacts are or how to remedy it, but you have to accept the underlying principle that man is to blame.
No email acknowledgment response from The London Science Museum (or MI5!), yet.
I’m in the UK and never got a confirming email after voting. Not yet, anyway, after 20 mins.
I didn’t think of it in time, but it might be best to type in the address if you are going to vote, not just click on the link. A large influx on their web stats from WUWT might inspire them to some climate-type data adjustment!
“Then i got to the end and it was some rubbish displays on climate change, it felt like a step backwards.”
If it makes you feel any better, the madness is not limited to climate change. The Franklin Institute in Philadelphia got rid of a wonderful room dealing with electricity and electromagnetism and replaced it with glorified posters talking about race, diversity, and discrimination.
My annual membership expired 4 days later … I have yet to renew it.
Given the threats made by major AGW supporters, with references to “trials” and “death trains”, concern over one’s safety should be expected. It would be irrational not to worry about how individuals or even the government might respond to those who disagree. Look at the Obama enemies list that is headed by Fox News.
Your “before the jump” teaser is somewhat misleading; I was really expecting different treatment of the two poll options.
I love your blog and the high quality work you do–but this post shows not even the best of us can bat 1.000.
The ‘count me out’ count is now 362, compared to 340 for the ‘count me in’ count. Brilliant.
Wake up, America,
and listen, what this guy has to say
…we know, that no matter how spineless our poilitcians are here in europe and elsewhere.. as long as Americas first amendment remains inviolated, there will always be an oasis of freedom…
From my european (german) point of view, I can not do more, than agree to him in the strongest possible way.
crosspatch (09:43:57) :
Now that I think about it, maybe it isn’t so bad. They only want a name and an email address. That is not enough to identify a person with as many people could share a first/last name. And the “name” could be something like “crosspatch”.
At times like that, I use a name and email address that lets them know where I stand. It’s not something I can print here, but the email address usually ends with “@you.com.”
You sometimes have to creative with the spelling to get past the obscenity filters. Try using a phonetic spelling.
Counted out and left the following message:
**********
I will quote Finnish professor Atte Korhola:
“Wen later generations learn about climate science, they will classify the beginning of 21st century as an embarrassing chapter in history of science. They will wonder our time, and use it as a warning of how the core values and criteria of science were allowed little by little to be forgotten as the actual research topic — climate change — turned into a political and social playground.”
It is sad that UK, in the past the world leader of scientific advance has sunk so deeply, promoting that politicized junk science.
**********
So far, outists are leading 365:340 😮
I was counted out to. If you don’t hear from me on this blog again, you’ll know that I had a visit …. hang on, there’s a knock at the door and a blue light flashing outside.
I also voted ‘out’ and left a comment. Maybe they’ll send all us sceptics a copy of the government’s recent ‘scary’ ad and try and frighten us into acceptance!