From the “would you, could you, with a boat department”. Bill goes macro. The Simpsons are cited by patent watcher.
Patent watcher “theodp,” who tipped us off to the filings, says he was reminded of “The Simpsons” as he read through them. “The richest man in the world hatches a plan to alter weather and ecology in return for insurance premiums and fees from governments and individuals,” he writes. “It’s got kind of a Mr. Burns feel to it, no?”
I guess Bill has been talking to the G-8 people and their temperature control ideas. Note to Bill: nature will squish you and your ideas like a bug. In the meantime with ACE values being low according to COAPS Ryan Maue and Steve McIntyre showing cooler temperatures on the SST map for Gulf Coast hurricane development areas, it looks like they may have to wait a year or two to try out their ideas. The idea? Basically, ship mounted pumps to circulate cooler water from below the thermocline to the surface by forcing surface water downward first. Good luck with that. – Anthony
One force of nature vs. another: Bill Gates tries to stop hurricanes
Recent patent filings have shown Bill Gates and his friends exploring subjects as diverse as electromagnetic engines and beer kegs. Now they’re thinking even bigger — trying to stop hurricanes.
Microsoft’s chairman is among the inventors listed on a new batch of patent applications that propose using large fleets of vessels to suppress hurricanes through various methods of mixing warm water from the surface of the ocean with colder water at greater depths. The idea is to decrease the surface temperature, reducing or eliminating the heat-driven condensation that fuels the giant storms.
The filings were made by Searete LLC, an entity tied to Intellectual Ventures, the Bellevue-based patent and invention house run by Nathan Myhrvold, the former Microsoft chief technology officer. Myhrvold and several others are listed along with Gates as inventors.
The diagram at right is from one of five related patent applications made public this morning. So how exactly do they plan to stop hurricanes? Here’s an excerpt from the filing that explains the diagram.
Vessel 100 is a tub-like structure having one or more walls 110 and a bottom 115. Vessel 100 may be held buoyant in the water by one or more buoyancy tanks 120 which may be used to maintain the buoyancy of vessel 100 and further may be used to control the height of walls 110 above the water level. Vessel 100 also includes a conduit 125 whose horizontal cross section is substantially smaller than the horizontal cross section of the tub portion 130 of the vessel defined by walls 110. In an exemplary embodiment, conduit 125 extends well below the ocean surface including depths below the ocean’s thermocline.
In most circumstances, most of the sunlight impinging on the ocean surface is absorbed in the surface layer. The surface layer therefore heats up. Wind and waves move water in this surface layer which distributes heat within it. The temperature may therefore be reasonably uniform to depths extending a few hundred feet down from the ocean surface. Below this mixed layer, however, the temperature decreases rapidly with depth, for example, as much as 20 degrees Celsius with an additional 150 m (500 ft) of depth. This area of rapid transition is called the thermocline. Below it, the temperature continues to decrease with depth, but far more gradually. In the Earth’s oceans, approximately 90% of the mass of water is below the thermocline. This deep ocean consists of layers of substantially equal density, being poorly mixed, and may be as cold as -2 to 3.degree. C.
Therefore, the lower depths of the ocean may be used as a huge heat/energy sink which may be exploited by vessel 100. When vessel 100 is deployed at sea, waves 135 may lap over the top of walls 110 to input warm (relative to deeper waters) surface ocean water into tub 130. Tub 130 will fill to a level 140 which is above the average ocean level depicted as level 145. Because of the difference between levels 140 and 145, a pressure head is created thereby pushing warm surface ocean water in a downward direction 150 down through conduit 125 to exit into the cold ocean depths (relative to near surface waters) through one or more openings 155. In an exemplary embodiment, the depth of opening 155 may be located below the ocean’s thermocline, the approximate bottom of which is depicted as line 160. This cycle will be continuous in bringing warm surface ocean water to great depth as ocean waves continue to input water into tub 130. If many of vessel 100 are distributed throughout a region of water, the temperature of the surface of the water may be altered.
“Many” is the important concept there at the end.
Gates, Myhrvold and associates aren’t the first to propose reducing the ocean’s surface temperature as a means of suppressing hurricanes, said David Nolan, an associate professor of meteorology and physical oceanography at the University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science.
“Every couple of years there’s a news story that gets picked up for some hurricane-suppression idea,” Nolan said via phone this morning. “They’re all kooky in their own way. Some of them are more plausible than others, but they all face an enormous problem of scale. … You would have to cover an incredible area with this effect to reduce the temperature of the ocean by a significant amount.”
Of course, a big difference in this case is that one of the people making the suggestion is one of the world’s richest men. But don’t look for Gates to fund the deployment of thousands of these vessels. One of the patent filings proposes paying for the equipment through the sale of insurance policies in hurricane-prone areas, in addition to funding from state, federal and local government agencies.
Patent watcher “theodp,” who tipped us off to the filings, says he was reminded of “The Simpsons” as he read through them. “The richest man in the world hatches a plan to alter weather and ecology in return for insurance premiums and fees from governments and individuals,” he writes. “It’s got kind of a Mr. Burns feel to it, no?”
The hurricane-suppression patent applications date to early 2008, but they were first made public this morning.
These and previous Searete LLC patent filings are believed to result from brainstorming sessions regularly held by Intellectual Ventures, in which Gates has been known to take part. It’s not clear how or when Intellectual Ventures might go forward with any of these ideas.
I invented a gravity pump that uses the Moon to alter sea levels. Does anyone have Bill’s phone number? Because I am sure he would like to invest in it.
What about detonating a cutter bomb in the eye of the hurricane? Would this have the ability of disrupting or shearing off the top of the storm? What about dropping tons of sand into the storm (since sand and dust blowing into the Atlantic from the Sahara desert has the effect of suppressing tropical storms)?
REPLY: same problem, the issue of scale anything we can muster is a flyspeck on an elephants butt scale-wise. – Anthony
Laughing over my cornflakes and OJ. I think Mr. Gates has been watching too many movies…
He is going to power them with these (Link to YouTube).
In a critical scene in the movie “groundhog day” the main character, played by Bill Murray, displays the ultimate in hubris, claiming the power to “make the weather”
Around the 5:45 mark.
It is this act which dooms him to live the same day over and over again, until he learns how to truly be of service to others. Just saying Mr. gates
Much sound and fury about…nothing. For the critics, note the patent drawing includes buoyancy tanks all around which can be flooded or ‘blown’ (using ordinary energy, as oppose to free energy like solar and wind.) Further, those tanks would allow the tank to be filled during calm- sink the sucker, fill it up, blow the tanks and viola! So far, so good…
Anonymoose touches on the key problem. The ‘descending’ column of water will dump heat as it falls into the surrounding, cooler ocean. Insulation will not cure this problem; no matter how efficient, insulation (other than a total vacuum) will always permit some heat transfer to the surrounding environment and it will eventually stabilize to a constant rate. Warm water reaching the bottom will no longer be warm. Going deeper doesn’t help.
At the same time, less dense warm water in the ‘tube’ is expected to force denser, colder water downwards? No, they will mix locally to an equillibrium temperature and the process will continue with the next lower stratum of temperature. At the bottom, nothing will happen. The temperature of the whole column in the tube will be the same as the outside. Rube Goldberg would have been proud of this “invention.”
If I recall correctly, my Physics 2 teacher summarized the first two laws of thermodynamics as: 1) You can’t win, and 2) You can’t stay even… something about entropy…
Ronan
I’d be interested in your evidence for ‘accelerating global warming’.
And I’ve invented a little solar powered device with wind and wave backup that will switch them off and back on again when they don’t work. Where’s my money?
While we’re on the subject, someone above mentioned Panama. It’s too late at night to go look up the exact statistic, but if I recall, the difference between the Pacific and Atlantic Ocean levels at the isthmus is more like forty feet, due to the Earth’s rotation. Since the Earth turns eastwards, the Atlantic should be the higher side, no? Anyway, why not, using Tom Swift’s Atomic Earth Blaster, tunnel through the isthmus and harness the head to generate electricty? This would surely work and might make Panama energy independent or even a exporter to the neighbors in Costa Rica. Best of all, until the planet stops rotating, it would be inexhaustible. We’re not looking at all the natural possibilities!
Along similar lines, why not lay a pipe from the Sea of Cortez to the Salton Sea, taking advantage of a fifty foot head (a siphon would make excavation unnecessary) and generate enough electricity for the region? Stop when Palm Springs and Indio have beaches. Refilling the Salton Sea (a man-made feature to begin with) to sea level would also increase rainfall in SE California and Arizona. The San Andreas fault will do this eventually, anyway.
While we’re at it, why not fill the Dead Sea basin (Israel/Jordan) with water from the Red Sea. Here we have a 1000 foot head! End result: energy independence for both countries and a true border. And why not? Plate tectonics suggest it is going to happen eventually, anyway. Egypt has an even deeper basin west of the Nile which could be flooded from the Mediterranean with similar results. Why don’t people think?
This is lunacy, a sure sign that the GW religion will make otherwise reasonably intelligent people do totally idiotic things.
Pumping up water from the deep on a sufficiently large scale to have an effect implies mucking up the Caribean eco-system big time. It’s an ecological disaster in the making. Prepare yourself for problems with algae and dying fish on a gigantic scale. The GW doommongers may be right after all: that you can’t live on the coast there because of the stench of rotting fish and other gue. Only, it’ll be a disaster of their making.
Apart from that, Hurricanes occur because there’s too much heat stored in the waters which has to find an outlet. Burrying warm surface waters doesn’t dissipate that heat, only stores it somewhere else, thus piling up ever more energy to spawn some really monsters in the future.
If you live in Houston or New Orleans and Bill is going ahead: get out now.
I will try to find the study for you (may have even been here at WUWT). I believe you are wrong as the study suggests that sand storms in the Western Sahara would seed storms that spin off of the coast. Has nothing to do with reflective sunlight and such, but EVERYTHING to do with cloud seeding.
Ten bucks says he worked it all out on a model:P What I want to know, is when its a collosal failure and all his boats are thrown inland by waves and wind.. who cleans up the mess?
AnonyMoose (18:31:48) : at 12 07
You got it in one.
It makes no difference wheter the apparatus as described is present or absent.
Just now SBS Australia has reported the Skeptic side (protesters outside Gore’s talk etc) not even mentioning anything about Gore’s AGW talk but the skeptic’s view that Gore’s AGW theories all unproven. This is quite extraordinary as both the ABC (Australia) and SBS have rigourously towed the AGW line.
So instead of a blue screen of death you would get a blue ocean of death.
Lots of these “invention” companies only manufacture what are known as submarine patents. They never actually produce anything tangible. Their hope is that somebody else will invent and manufacture something that infringes one of their patents. They can then sue and demand a piece of the pie.
They will never attempt to implement this patent, but should somebody else invest the time, research and money into making this or something along the same lines profitable then they will be knocking at the door demanding money.
“When vessel 100 is deployed at sea, waves 135 may lap over the top of walls 110 to input warm (relative to deeper waters) surface ocean water into tub 130. Tub 130 will fill to a level 140 which is above the average ocean level depicted as level 145. Because of the difference between levels 140 and 145, a pressure head is created thereby pushing warm surface ocean water in a downward direction 150 down through conduit 125 to exit into the cold ocean depths (relative to near surface waters) through one or more openings 155.”
MEMO to all those trying to strip Bill Gates from his money:
DON’T MENTION ARCHIMEDES!
But what the hell. Archimedes didn’t have Deep Black and a computer model. Max Escher rules, OK.
I vote dual-use off-shore windfarms.
When climate conditions are favourable, let the wind blow and generate electricity. Charge greens a premium for this and claim subsidies. Bank any profits or tax deductions.
When climate conditions are less favourable, switch the turbines from suck to blow and blow those nasty winds back out to sea. Or just cool the surface. Maybe. Pay for the electricity needed from subsidies, insurance premiums etc etc and bank any profits or tax deductions.
Alternatively, use co-generating windfarms where ‘top up’ power is provided by compact and bijou naval reactors to cope with any lulls (or lolz).
I’m a liberal, and I’m sure a lot of you are convinced that I and others with my views are crazy and/or evil.
That’s how Liberals view people who disagree with them.
Speaking as someone on the Right side of the political fence, I view Liberals as mostly ignorant or intellectually lazy, and too prepared to buy into the mindless pap the media and the legion of special interests peddle.
Crazy and evil generally only exist in Hollywood movies. To view those who oppose you as crazy or evil means you have trouble separating fiction from reality.
And that is perhaps what separates liberals and conservatives. Liberals will buy into a good narrative without looking too closely at its veracity, especially if they believe everyone else is buying in, and its packaged as a morality tale (as AGW, like most Hollywood fiction, is). For many (most?) people believing in global warming is the political equivalent of a fashion statement. and they can feel good about being on the right and moral side.
Whereas conservatives don’t care if something is fashionable, they want to know whether it is true or not.
Add another reason to buy a Mac.
Don’t laugh too hard. Al Gore may already be planning a “documentary” on this howler– and Barbara Boxer writing legislation to make us pay for it (or borrow the money from the Chinese, who have a lot more reason to laugh than we do).
We live in a silly-ass society.
This is a joke, right?
Bill probably got his inspiration from George: click
If Bill was thinking of doing something to the Van Allen Belts, he might affect hurricane generation…….Hurricanes are like sunspots – various forms of electric discharges from the equatorial plasma toroid.
They might get a shock out of all this, in more ways than one.
No mention of protest against Al on ABC 7.30 report where Heather Hewitt was throwing tennis balls up for Al to whack into the “deniers” as he now calls them rather than sceptics. BUT for the first time ever – as I recall amongst all the doting – the ABC asked a pertinent question – Heather asked Al whether perhaps some of his possible exaggerations of global warming had been counter- productive.
His reply was that he reflected all IPCC predictions and that all the evidence for the last 20 years pointed towards what they believed was happening.
Meanwhile Steve Fielding is holding his ground despite being interrogated intensely by the ABC on radio and said before any politician passes any ETS bill they must be able to face their electorate and tell them that they understand the science and why there has been no significant warming in the past decade.
Steve Fielding is under intense pressure from all sections of the media and has really earned my respect in the way he is standing firm to his convictions. But he hopes to meet with Al Gore in next few days and will ask him to give an explanation. Maybe we will have some new light on the AGW theory coming out of Sydney! If he cannot satisfy Fielding, watch this space, there may be a murmur of thunder from down under.
Squidly,
Studies of dust storms in Africa vs Atlantic hurricanes show the more dust the less hurricanes. the study did not attempt to explain, just report.
I was wondering if anyone wanted to do the math. Seawater density varies with temperature, salinity, and (possibly) dissolved gases (or lack thereof). What water head would be needed to force warm, less saline, seawater to a depth of 200 meters? What wave action would be needed to reach this water head. How often does the wave height in the gulf reach this level.
How could you keep these things from moving around? Would these “boats” pose hazards to navigation? Who gets sued when an oil tanker rams one of them. Maybe Bill would sell insurance to shipping companies to cover damages to their ships.
Saayyy, Bill, I need $5,000,000 to research this for you. Would you mind if I compiled my research on my Mac?