Steig et al – falsified

Smearing around data or paint - the results are similar
Smearing around data or paint - the results are similar

Jeff Id of The Air Vent emailed me today inviting me to repost Ryan O’s latest work on statistical evaluation of the Steig et al “Antarctica is warming” paper ( Nature, Jan 22, 2009) I thought long and hard about the title, especially after reviewing the previous work from Ryan O we posted on WUWT where the paper was dealt a serious blow to “robustness”. After reading this latest statistical analysis, I think it is fair to conclude that the paper’s premise has been falsified.

Ryan O, in his conclusion, is a bit more gracious:

I am perfectly comfortable saying that Steig’s reconstruction is not a faithful representation of Antarctic temperatures over the past 50 years and that ours is closer to the mark.

Not only that, Ryan O did a more complete job of the reconstruction than Steig et al did, he mentions this in comments at The Air Vent:

Steig only used 42 stations to perform his reconstruction. I used 98, since I included AWS stations.

The AWS stations have their problems, such as periods of warmer temperatures due to being buried in snow, but even when using this data, Ryan O’s analysis still comes out with less warming than the original Steig et al paper

Antarctica as a whole is not warming, the Antarctic peninsula is, which is signficantly removed climatically from the main continent.

Click for a larger image
Click for a larger image

It is my view that all Steig and Michael Mann have done with their application of RegEm to the station data is to smear the temperature around much like an artist would smear red and white paint on a pallete board to get a new color “pink” and then paint the entire continent with it.

It is a lot like “spin art” you see at the county fair. For example, look (at left) at the different tiles of colored temperature results for Antarctica you can get using Steig’s and Mann’s methodology. The only thing that changes are the starting parameters, the data remains the same, while the RegEm program smears it around based on those starting parameters. In the Steig et al case, PC and regpar were chosen by the authors to be a value of 3. Chosing any different numbers yields an entirely different result.

So the premise of the Steig et al paper paper boils down to an arbitrary choice of values that “looked good”.

I hope that Ryan O will write a rebuttal letter to Nature, and/or publish a paper. It is the only way the Team will back down on this. – Anthony

UPDATE: To further clarify, Ryan O writes in comments:

“Overall, Antarctica has warmed from 1957-2006. There is no debating that point. (However, other than the Peninsula, the warming is not statistically significant. )

The important difference is the location of the warming and the magnitude of the warming. Steig’s paper has the warming concentrated on the Ross Ice Shelf – which would lead you to entirely different conclusions than having a minimum on the ice shelf. As far as magnitude goes, the warming for the continent is half of what was reported by Steig (0.12 vs. 0.06 Deg C/Decade).

Additionally, Steig shows whole-continent warming from 1967-2006; this analysis shows that most of the continent has cooled from 1967-2006. Given that the 1940’s were significantly warmer in the Antarctic than 1957 (the 1957-1960 period was unusually cold in the Antarctic), focusing on 1957 can give a somewhat slanted picture of the temperature trends in the continent.”

Ryan O  adds later:  “I should have said that all reconstructions yield a positive trend, though in most cases the trend for the continent is not statistically significant.


Verification of the Improved High PC Reconstruction

Posted by Jeff Id on May 28, 2009

There is always something going on around here.

Up until now all the work which has been done on the antarctic reconstruction has been done without statistical verification. We believed that they are better from correlation vs distance plots, the visual comparison to station trends and of course the better approximation of simple area weighted reconstructions using surface station data.

The authors of Steig et al. have not been queried by myself or anyone else that I’m aware of regarding the quality of the higher PC reconstructions. And the team has largely ignored what has been going on over on the Air Vent. This post however demonstrates strongly improved verification statistics which should send chills down their collective backs.

Ryan was generous in giving credit to others with his wording, he has put together this amazing piece of work himself using bits of code and knowledge gained from the numerous other posts by himself and others on the subject. He’s done a top notch job again, through a Herculean effort in code and debugging.

If you didn’t read Ryan’s other post which led to this work the link is:

Antarctic Coup de Grace

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Fig_1

Fig. 1: 1957-2006 trends; our reconstruction (left); Steig reconstruction (right)

HOW DO WE CHOOSE?

In order to choose which version of Antarctica is more likely to represent the real 50-year history, we need to calculate statistics with which to compare the reconstructions. For this post, we will examine r, r^2, R^2, RE, and CE for various conditions, including an analysis of the accuracy of the RegEM imputation. While Steig’s paper did provide verification statistics against the satellite data, the only verification statistics that related to ground data were provided by the restricted 15-predictor reconstruction, where the withheld ground stations were the verification target. We will perform a more comprehensive analysis of performance with respect to both RegEM and the ground data. Additionally, we will compare how our reconstruction performs against Steig’s reconstruction using the same methods used by Steig in his paper, along with a few more comprehensive tests.

To calculate what I would consider a healthy battery of verification statistics, we need to perform several reconstructions. The reason for this is to evaluate how well the method reproduces known data. Unless we know how well we can reproduce things we know, we cannot determine how likely the method is to estimate things we do not know. This requires that we perform a set of reconstructions by withholding certain information. The reconstructions we will perform are:

1. A 13-PC reconstruction using all manned and AWS stations, with ocean stations and Adelaide excluded. This is the main reconstruction.

2. An early calibration reconstruction using AVHRR data from 1982-1994.5. This will allow us to assess how well the method reproduces the withheld AVHRR data.

3. A late calibration reconstruction using AVHRR data from 1994.5-2006. Coupled with the early calibration, this provides comprehensive coverage of the entire satellite period.

4. A 13-PC reconstruction with the AWS stations withheld. The purpose of this reconstruction is to use the AWS stations as a verification target (i.e., see how well the reconstruction estimates the AWS data, and then compare the estimation against the real AWS data).

5. The same set of four reconstructions as above, but using 21 PCs in order to assess the stability of the reconstruction to included PCs.

6. A 3-PC reconstruction using Steig’s station complement to demonstrate replication of his process.

7. A 3-PC reconstruction using the 13-PC reconstruction model frame as input to demonstrate the inability of Steig’s process to properly resolve the geographical locations of the trends and trend magnitudes.

Using the above set of reconstructions, we will then calculate the following sets of verification statistics:

1. Performance vs. the AVHRR data (early and late calibration reconstructions)

2. Performance vs. the AVHRR data (full reconstruction model frame)

3. Comparison of the spliced and model reconstruction vs. the actual ground station data.

4. Comparison of the restricted (AWS data withheld) reconstruction vs. the actual AWS data.

5. Comparison of the RegEM imputation model frame for the ground stations vs. the actual ground station data.

The provided script performs all of the required reconstructions and makes all of the required verification calculations. I will not present them all here (because there are a lot of them). I will present the ones that I feel are the most telling and important. In fact, I have not yet plotted all the different results myself. So for those of you with R, there are plenty of things to plot.

Without further ado, let’s take a look at a few of those things.

Fig_2Fig. 2: Split reconstruction verification for Steig reconstruction

You may remember the figure above; it represents the split reconstruction verification statistics for Steig’s reconstruction. Note the significant regions of negative CE values (which indicate that a simple average of observed temperatures explains more variance than the reconstruction). Of particular note, the region where Steig reports the highest trend – West Antarctica and the Ross Ice Shelf – shows the worst performance.

Let’s compare to our reconstruction:

Fig_3Fig. 3: Split reconstruction verification for 13-PC reconstruction

There still are a few areas of negative RE (too small to see in this panel) and some areas of negative CE. However, unlike the Steig reconstruction, ours performs well in most of West Antarctica, the Peninsula, and the Ross Ice Shelf. All values are significantly higher than the Steig reconstruction, and we show much smaller regions with negative values.

As an aside, the r^2 plots are not corrected by the Monte Carlo analysis yet. However, as shown in the previous post concerning Steig’s verification statistics, the maximum r^2 values using AR(8) noise were only 0.019, which produces an indistinguishable change from Fig. 3.

Now that we know that our method provides a more faithful reproduction of the satellite data, it is time to see how faithfully our method reproduces the ground data. A simple way to compare ours against Steig’s is to look at scatterplots of reconstructed anomalies vs. ground station anomalies:

Your browser may not support display of this image.

Fig_4Fig. 4: 13-PC scatterplot (left); Steig reconstruction (right)

The 13-PC reconstruction shows significantly improved performance in predicting ground temperatures as compared to the Steig reconstruction. This improved performance is also reflected in plots of correlation coefficient:

Fig_5Fig. 5: Correlation coefficient by geographical location

As noted earlier, the performance in the Peninsula , West Antarctica, and the Ross Ice Shelf are noticeably better for our reconstruction. Examining the plots this way provides a good indication of the geographical performance of the two reconstructions. Another way to look at this – one that allows a bit more precision – is to plot the results as bar plots, sorted by location:

Fig_6Fig. 6: Correlation coefficients for the 13-PC reconstruction

Fig_7Fig. 7: Correlation coefficients for the Steig reconstruction

The difference is quite striking.

While a good performance with respect to correlation is nice, this alone does not mean we have a “good” reconstruction. One common problem is over-fitting during the calibration period (where the calibration period is defined as the periods over which actual data is present). This leads to fantastic verification statistics during calibration, but results in poor performance outside of that period.

This is the purpose of the restricted reconstruction, where we withhold all AWS data. We then compare the reconstruction values against the actual AWS data. If our method resulted in overfitting (or is simply a poor method), our verification performance will be correspondingly poor.

Since Steig did not use AWS stations for performing his TIR reconstruction, this allows us to do an apples-to-apples comparison between the two methods. We can use the AWS stations as a verification target for both reconstructions. We can then compare which reconstruction results in better performance from the standpoint of being able to predict the actual AWS data. This is nice because it prevents us from later being accused of holding the reconstructions to different standards.

Note that since all of the AWS data was withheld, RE is undefined. RE uses the calibration period mean, and there is no calibration period for the AWS stations because we did the reconstruction without including any AWS data. We could run a split test like we did with the satellite data, but that would require additional calculations and is an easier test to pass regardless. Besides, the reason we have to run a split test with the satellite data is that we cannot withhold all of the satellite data and still be able to do the reconstruction. With the AWS stations, however, we are not subject to the same restriction.

Fig_8Fig. 8: Correlation coefficient, verification period, AWS stations withheld

With that, I think we can safely put to bed the possibility that our calibration performance was due to overfitting. The verification performance is quite good, with the exception of one station in West Antarctica (Siple). Some of you may be curious about Siple, so I decided to plot both the original data and the reconstructed data. The problem with Siple is clearly the short record length and strange temperature swings (in excess of 10 degrees), which may indicate problems with the measurements:

Fig_9Fig. 9: Siple station data

While we should still be curious about Siple, we also would not be unjustified in considering it an outlier given the performance of our reconstruction at the remainder of the station locations.

Leaving Siple for the moment, let’s take a look at how Steig’s reconstruction performs.

Fig_10Fig. 10: Correlation coefficient, verification period, AWS stations withheld, Steig reconstruction

Not too bad – but not as good as ours. Curiously, Siple does not look like an outlier in Steig’s reconstruction. In its place, however, seems to be the entire Peninsula. Overall, the correlation coefficients for the Steig reconstruction are poorer than ours. This allows us to conclude that our reconstruction more accurately calculated the temperature in the locations where we withheld real data.

Along with correlation coefficient, the other statistic we need to look at is CE. Of the three statistics used by Steig – r, RE, and CE – CE is the most difficult statistic to pass. This is another reason why we are not concerned about lack of RE in this case: RE is an easier test to pass.

Fig_11Fig. 11: CE, verification period, AWS stations withheld

Your browser may not support display of this image.

Fig_12Fig. 12: CE, verification period, AWS stations withheld, Steig reconstruction

The difference in performance between the two reconstructions is more apparent in the CE statistic. Steig’s reconstruction demonstrates negligible skill in the Peninsula, while our skill in the Peninsula is much higher. With the exception of Siple, our West Antarctic stations perform comparably. For the rest of the continent, our CE statistics are significantly higher than Steig’s – and we have no negative CE values.

So in a test of which method best reproduces withheld ground station data, our reconstruction shows significantly more skill than Steig’s.

The final set of statistics we will look at is the performance of RegEM. This is important because it will show us how faithful RegEM was to the original data. Steig did not perform any verification similar to this because PTTLS does not return the model frame. Unlike PTTLS, however, our version of RegEM (IPCA) does return the model frame. Since the model frame is accessible, it is incumbent upon us to look at it.

Note: In order to have a comparison, we will run a Steig-type reconstruction using RegEM IPCA.

There are two key statistics for this: r and R^2. R^2 is called “average explained variance”. It is a similar statistic to RE and CE with the difference being that the original data comes from the calibration period instead of the verification period. In the case of RegEM, all of the original data is technically “calibration period”, which is why we do not calculate RE and CE. Those are verification period statistics.

Let’s look at how RegEM IPCA performed for our reconstruction vs. Steig’s.

Fig_13Fig. 13: Correlation coefficient between RegEM model frame and actual ground data

As you can see, RegEM performed quite faithfully with respect to the original data. This is a double-edged sword; if RegEM performs too faithfully, you end up with overfitting problems. However, we already checked for overfitting using our restricted reconstruction (with the AWS stations as the verification target).

While we had used regpar settings of 9 (main reconstruction) and 6 (restricted reconstruction), Steig only used a regpar setting of 3. This leads us to question whether that setting was sufficient for RegEM to be able to faithfully represent the original data. The only way to tell is to look, and the next frame shows us that Steig’s performance was significantly less than ours.

 Fig. 14: Correlation coefficient between RegEM model frame and actual ground data, Steig reconstructionFig. 14: Correlation coefficient between RegEM model frame and actual ground data, Steig reconstruction

The performance using a regpar setting of 3 is noticeably worse, especially in East Antarctica. This would indicate that a setting of 3 does not provide enough degrees of freedom for the imputation to accurately represent the existing data. And if the imputation cannot accurately represent the existing data, then its representation of missing data is correspondingly suspect.

Another point I would like to note is the heavy weighting of Peninsula and open-ocean stations. Steig’s reconstruction relied on a total of 5 stations in West Antarctica, 4 of which are located on the eastern and southern edges of the continent at the Ross Ice Shelf. The resolution of West Antarctic trends based on the ground stations alone is rather poor.

Now that we’ve looked at correlation coefficients, let’s look at a more stringent statistic: average explained variance, or R^2.

Fig. 15: R2 between RegEM model frame and actual ground dataFig. 15: R^2 between RegEM model frame and actual ground data

Using a regpar setting of 9 also provides good R^2 statistics. The Peninsula is still a bit wanting. I checked the R^2 for the 21-PC reconstruction and the numbers were nearly identical. Without increasing the regpar setting and running the risk of overfitting, this seems to be about the limit of the imputation accuracy.

Fig_16Fig. 16: R^2 between RegEM model frame and actual ground data, Steig reconstruction

Steig’s reconstruction, on the other hand, shows some fairly low values for R^2. The Peninsula is an odd mix of high and low values, West Antarctica and Ross are middling, while East Antarctica is poor overall. This fits with the qualitative observation that the Steig method seemed to spread the Peninsula warming all over the continent, including into East Antarctica – which by most other accounts is cooling slightly, not warming.

CONCLUSION

With the exception of the RegEM verification, all of the verification statistics listed above were performed exactly (split reconstruction) or analogously (restricted 15 predictor reconstruction) by Steig in the Nature paper. In all cases, our reconstruction shows significantly more skill than the Steig reconstruction. So if these are the metrics by which we are to judge this type of reconstruction, ours is objectively superior.

As before, I would qualify this by saying that not all of the errors and uncertainties have been quantified yet, so I’m not comfortable putting a ton of stock into any of these reconstructions. However, I am perfectly comfortable saying that Steig’s reconstruction is not a faithful representation of Antarctic temperatures over the past 50 years and that ours is closer to the mark.

NOTE ON THE SCRIPT

If you want to duplicate all of the figures above, I would recommend letting the entire script run. Be patient; it takes about 20 minutes. While this may seem long, remember that it is performing 11 different reconstructions and calculating a metric butt-ton of verification statistics.

There is a plotting section at the end that has examples of all of the above plots (to make it easier for you to understand how the custom plotting functions work) and it also contains indices and explanations for the reconstructions, variables, and statistics. As always, though, if you have any questions or find a feature that doesn’t work, let me know and I’ll do my best to help.

Lastly, once you get comfortable with the script, you can probably avoid running all the reconstructions. They take up a lot of memory, and if you let all of them run, you’ll have enough room for maybe 2 or 3 more before R refuses to comply. So if you want to play around with the different RegEM variants, numbers of included PCs, and regpar settings, I would recommend getting comfortable with the script and then loading up just the functions. That will give you plenty of memory for 15 or so reconstructions.

As a bonus, I included the reconstruction that takes the output of our reconstruction, uses it for input to the Steig method, and spits out this result:

Fig_17Fig. 17: Steig reconstruction using the 13-PC reconstruction as input.

The name for the list containing all the information and trends is “r.3.test”.

—————————————————————-

Code is here Recon.R

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Layman Lurker
May 29, 2009 8:40 am

re: Smokey (08:28:15)
Smokey, it is interesting that your graph shows an increase in “noise” at 1982 which is when AVHRR data was introduced. What is the data source for the graph?

May 29, 2009 8:48 am

What never seems to register with the alarmists is the earth has warmed significantly since the end of the last glaciation ice age. The sea levels have gone up somewhere around 100 meters. Yes, somewhere. What engineers call that last bit of something in temperature and sea level rise is ‘measurement error’. It surely isn’t a signal of anything.
Meanwhile, we sit and watch the abject idiocy of trying to divine the last tenth of a degree of temperature or millimeter of sea rise, when in fact the measurement of what was, is so imprecise that it makes the exercise all but futile.
No one seems to understand why the 100,000 year cycling glaciation ice ages started about 5 million years ago, nor when the cycling might end. But I think it is a safe bet the cycling glaciation isn’t over …

May 29, 2009 8:51 am

LL:
I think it was from Bill Illis, who got the data from GISS. Here’s another showing the same thing, but with a different y-axis: click

Ray
May 29, 2009 9:24 am

Ah, yes, reconstruction… the art of extrapolation into the cluless world… just like when they find a dinosaur bone and can extrapolate a whole body with skin and colours. In my world, we call this imagination.

May 29, 2009 9:41 am

Layman Lurker (08:40:28) :
I plotted the south pole here too.
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/closest-station-antarctic-reconstruction/
What’s interesting about the link is that it also shows an NOAA plot demonstrating the similarity between this reconstruction and what used to be the mainstream consensus.
—-
Thanks for carrying this post Anthony, I was worried it wouldn’t get the attention it deserves. Ryan has put huge hours into this and has done a fantastic job. BTW, for anyone who’s interested, complete (very neatly written) turnkey R code is included in a link at the above post. Since R is free, anyone interested can verify his results themselves.

AnonyMoose
May 29, 2009 9:44 am

Volcanoes around Antarctica are obviously hot, but their heat is probably quite localized. Look at temperatures around the much larger Yellowstone volcano, which is known to have boiling water in areas, and it is hard to distinguish atmospheric temperatures near Yellowstone from that of the surrounding states.
REPLY: True, but what we don’t have in Yellowstone is heat transport into the ocean, with wider dispersal, which then has a much larger surface area in contact with the air.
Consider this quote: “Although a few fur seals basked in the sun, Prossin says most sea mammals stay away from Deception because the water is warm relative to the temperature outside in the strait.”
Source here
And this: Deception Island exhibits some wildly varying microclimates. Some water temperatures reach 70°C (158°F). Near volcanic areas, the air can be as hot as 40°C (103°F).
Source here
My point is that the Antarctic peninsula is volcanically active, we have demonstrations that the seawater at at least one location is hugely, anomalously, warmer than it should be. How much of the water around the peninsula is warmed and how much of the heat is transported into the air?
The peninsula also has the greatest population for Antarctica, so we may even have some UHI and microclimate influences going on to bias the thermometers. – Anthony

chip
May 29, 2009 9:56 am

I know this is OT, but i just read the Pielke post about framing and think it conveys a number of key points. Alarmists have done a very good job of framing skeptics, using deniers, flat-earthers, etc. to describe us. We, on the other hand, have done a very poor job of framing them, preferring to believe that facts and common sense will win the day over fear and hype. We also have weak terms like warmists, etc., that are ill considered for the weight of meaning they carry. Not for no reason was the name denier chosen.
We need a real term that will strike fear in the hearts of alarmists everywhere. A term that is loaded with associations that will send self-respecting people of their ilk running for the hills.
I suggest Climate Puritans. I do so based upon H.L. Menckens famous observation that Puritans are people who have the nagging suspicion that someone, somewhere, may be happy. Puritan is laden with meaning that will set blood boiling on the left, despite it being wholly accurate as a description. Can anyone seriously argue that Al Gore’s pronouncements in the face of his own actions are not Puritanical? Or Hansen’s? Based upon the views of those in Pielke’s article, I believe this term ‘frames’ proponents of AGW properly, so that they can be seen by the public for what they really are.
We need to fight back more effectively. To paraphrase Nancy Pelosi – hey, we’re saving the world here.

May 29, 2009 9:57 am

If it’s a metric butt-ton, it should be butt-tonne.

Layman Lurker
May 29, 2009 9:59 am

re: Jeff Id (09:41:01)
Yes Jeff I went back to your post after I saw Smokey’s graph to compare. It is not as clear in your plot but you can see the increase in noise after 1982. Is the AVHRR thing it just a coincidence? Do you see the same tendancies with other surface station series?

CodeTech
May 29, 2009 10:05 am

Mark Wagner (06:41:50) :

great analysis, thanks.
how much, exactly, is a “butt ton?”

A ton of feathers masses the same as a ton of lead, but I’d much rather be hit with the ton of feathers.
By the same token, you’d much rather be hit with the ton of lead than a “butt ton”. Really.

May 29, 2009 10:20 am

while I generally agree with Ryan’s result and think his post is very good, I do have a slight problem with this statement:
“Overall, Antarctica has warmed from 1957-2006. There is no debating that point. (However, other than the Peninsula, the warming is not statistically significant)”
A measurement is a measurement and is not in itself ‘statistically significant’ or not. If I measure the temperature outside and it is 67.2F, that is what it is and it carries no statistical significance as that is a concept that does not apply here. The significance comes in if you compare the measured value to its ‘expected’ value and want to argue that it is significantly different than the observed spread in such differences. So, one may ask what the expected value for the Antarctic would be and what the observed spread is.

theduke
May 29, 2009 10:22 am

Mike Bryant (06:17:50) :
“Chris S (04:50:12) :
I await the publication of this after peer review with baited breath”
What are you using for bait?
——————————————————-
LOL. You caught that too. I was going to ask, “What? Did you have worms for breakfast?”

May 29, 2009 10:30 am

UK government is convinced Antarctica will be a tropical paradise, that is why they pretend to own that territory.
http://www.thecommonwealth.org/YearbookInternal/140416/140419/british_antarctic_territory/

CyberZombie
May 29, 2009 10:34 am

chip (09:56:38) :
I’d like to suggest a better – and more accurate – term than ‘Climate Puritans’…
Liars

George E. Smith
May 29, 2009 10:37 am

“”” Ryan O (05:08:15) :
Chris: Yes. Overall, Antarctica has warmed from 1957-2006. There is no debating that point. (However, other than the Peninsula, the warming is not statistically significant. ) “””
Ryan, I am completely ill equipped to understand exactly what all that stuff in your essay means. You are forcing an old geezer to hit the books for a spell. Well I’ll do that instead of running up the office stairs two at a time for exercise.
I’m not sure I agree with your conclusion: “the warming is not statistically significant.”
That to me implies that the signal is lost in the noise; and you are saying (in effect) that your result is “unreliable”.
And I don’t think you really mean that.
I would tend to say that the “warming” that your analysis claims (and for that matter Steig et al too) is not CLIMATICALLY significant.
I for one, am not going to claim that I don’t believe that the earth has warmed a little since the IGY of 1957/8; and maybe it has cooled some more recently. And I would expect the polar regions to show some evidence of those warmings or coolings, and maybe they are different from the earth as a whole.
But for crying out loud; they are still 40-50 deg C underwater as far as being of any significance for the earth’s future. Wake me up when the Antarcitc continent gets up to only 30 below, mean surface temp.
So I think you need to rethink your conclusion; if your statistics reveal a real signal, then they are significant; but the global consequences of that signal may be as unimportant as the proverbial beat of the butterfly’s wing.
And that is what I think is wrong with the Steig et al paper; Antarctica warmed a lttle; whoop de do ! I think I’ll have another beer. And then I am going to try and understand your stat maths.
George

May 29, 2009 10:38 am

Supposed UK Antarctica summer resort is simultaneously own by Chile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%A1rtica_Chilena_Province

Ray
May 29, 2009 10:44 am

Leif Svalgaard (10:20:43) :
I agree with that too. The significance of a figure can only be significant or not only when compared to an assemble of other figures and depending on the measurement errors. Two figures are always significantly different if outside of their respective measurement error.
5 +/- 1 is not significantly different than 4 +/- 1.
5.0 +/- 0.1 is not significantly different than 4.9 +/- 0.2

Antonio San
May 29, 2009 10:47 am

“Overall, Antarctica has warmed from 1957-2006. There is no debating that point. (However, other than the Peninsula, the warming is not statistically significant)”
A measurement is a measurement and is not in itself ’statistically significant’ or not. If I measure the temperature outside and it is 67.2F, (…)
Except it is not as simple as a measurement since the 0.06c/decade trend emerged from statistical processing, more riguorous than Steig et al. but still a statistical processing. Moreover given the conditions the hundredth of a degree C precision is simply meaningless, cooling or warming.

May 29, 2009 10:50 am

Dan Hughes (09:57:33) : “If it’s a metric butt-ton, it should be butt-tonne.”
I wish you guys wouldn’t talk about Al Gore that way.

May 29, 2009 10:57 am

CyberZombie (10:34:18),
The “L” word fits the alarmist crowd perfectly, IMHO.
Interesting aside: Trygve Lie was the first UN Secretary-General.

May 29, 2009 11:20 am

chip (09:56:38) : “We need a…term that is loaded with associations that will send self-respecting people of their ilk running for the hills. I suggest Climate Puritans.”
But that is using the enemy’s terms, usually a mistake. They’ve been using “climate” lately to try to slide out from under the fact that they’ve been predicting warming that isn’t going to happen. A proper term should incorporate the word “warm.” Alliteration would make it even better, as in “Warmist Wormtongues,” etc., though the latter, while accurate, is a bit pejorative. I’m fairly sure you can come up with a dozen better words starting with W that aptly describe them. Very sure.
“Liars” and “Data-diddling doo-doo brains” are right out. Sorry.

May 29, 2009 11:33 am

Let me state for the record that none of the above suggested terms are intended to describe Dr. Steig.

May 29, 2009 11:38 am

Smokey (10:57:38) : Don´t say a word about the UN global government, after all you are already using the metric system, the ISO standards, the ILO as labour law, etc.

Benjamin P.
May 29, 2009 11:45 am

REPLY: You are making an assumption without any firsthand knowledge that it is negligible. Without doing a study to determine the magnitude, you cannot be sure. Remember, we aren’t talking about much. What we do know is that water around Deception Island is warm enough to boil shrimp at times, allowing tourists there to pick up “ready to eat” shrimp on the beach. Our own moderator confirms this with direct experience. How much is the ocean warmed in the region translating to warming air temps in the Peninsula? We don’t know. What we do know for certain is that the Peninsula has a wholly different warming trend than the main continent, and that it is so far removed geographically it should probably be declared a different climate zone. – Anthony
You are absolutely right, I don’t have first hand knowledge of the heat flow for those particular volcanoes in Antarctica. What I do have is knowledge of other volcanoes in the world and I suppose I was extrapolating based on that.
What I can say is there is a TON of heat flux running up and down the oceans at the mid-ocean ridges, and while there is considerable heat flux associated with these mid-ocean ridges, it does very little to change the oceans over-all temps and subsequently, the SST above.

May 29, 2009 12:01 pm

Antonio San (10:47:28) :
“Overall, Antarctica has warmed from 1957-2006. There is no debating that point. (However, other than the Peninsula, the warming is not statistically significant)”
1st: “there is no debating that point” I read that to mean it is statistically significant otherwise it would be debatable
2nd: “however, the warming is not statistically significant”
is a contradiction. My point stands:
“The significance comes in if you compare the measured value to its ‘expected’ value and want to argue that it is significantly different than the observed spread in such differences. So, one may ask what the expected value for the Antarctic would be and what the observed spread is?”

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