Rommulan Sudden Acceleration

I found this article well researched and clearly written, so I thought I’d repost it here for all to enjoy. Warren Meyers was one of the first volunteers for the surfacestations.org project and we share blog content semi-regularly. This is a rebuttal to Joe Romm’s (of Climate Progress) claim of a 15°F AGW induced temperature rise by 2100. – Anthony

Sudden Acceleration

For several years, there was an absolute spate of lawsuits charging sudden acceleration of a motor vehicle — you probably saw such a story:  Some person claims they hardly touched the accelerator and the car leaped ahead at enormous speed and crashed into the house or the dog or telephone pole or whatever.  Many folks have been skeptical that cars were really subject to such positive feedback effects where small taps on the accelerator led to enormous speeds, particularly when almost all the plaintiffs in these cases turned out to be over 70 years old.  It seemed that a rational society might consider other causes than unexplained positive feedback, but there was too much money on the line to do so.

Many of you know that I consider questions around positive feedback in the climate system to be the key issue in global warming, the one that separates a nuisance from a catastrophe.  Is the Earth’s climate similar to most other complex, long-term stable natural systems in that it is dominated by negative feedback effects that tend to damp perturbations?  Or is the Earth’s climate an exception to most other physical processes, is it in fact dominated by positive feedback effects that, like the sudden acceleration in grandma’s car, apparently rockets the car forward into the house with only the lightest tap of the accelerator?

I don’t really have any new data today on feedback, but I do have a new climate forecast from a leading alarmist that highlights the importance of the feedback question.

Dr. Joseph Romm of Climate Progress wrote the other day that he believes the mean temperature increase in the “consensus view” is around 15F from pre-industrial times to the year 2100.  Mr. Romm is mainly writing, if I read him right, to say that critics are misreading what the consensus forecast is.  Far be it for me to referee among the alarmists (though 15F is substantially higher than the IPCC report “consensus”).  So I will take him at his word that 15F increase with a CO2 concentration of 860ppm is a good mean alarmist forecast for 2100.

I want to deconstruct the implications of this forecast a bit.

For simplicity, we often talk about temperature changes that result from a doubling in Co2 concentrations.  The reason we do it this way is because the relationship between CO2 concentrations and temperature increases is not linear but logarithmic.  Put simply, the temperature change from a CO2 concentration increase from 200 to 300ppm is different (in fact, larger) than the temperature change we might expect from a concentration increase of 600 to 700 ppm.   But the temperature change from 200 to 400 ppm is about the same as the temperature change from 400 to 800 ppm, because each represents a doubling.   This is utterly uncontroversial.

If we take the pre-industrial Co2 level as about 270ppm, the current CO2 level as 385ppm, and the 2100 Co2 level as 860 ppm, this means that we are about 43% through a first doubling of Co2 since pre-industrial times, and by 2100 we will have seen a full doubling (to 540ppm) plus about 60% of the way to a second doubling.  For simplicity, then, we can say Romm expects 1.6 doublings of Co2 by 2100 as compared to pre-industrial times.

So, how much temperature increase should we see with a doubling of CO2?  One might think this to be an incredibly controversial figure at the heart of the whole matter.  But not totally.  We can break the problem of temperature sensitivity to Co2 levels into two pieces – the expected first order impact, ahead of feedbacks, and then the result after second order effects and feedbacks.

What do we mean by first and second order effects?  Well, imagine a golf ball in the bottom of a bowl.  If we tap the ball, the first order effect is that it will head off at a constant velocity in the direction we tapped it.  The second order effects are the gravity and friction and the shape of the bowl, which will cause the ball to reverse directions, roll back through the middle, etc., causing it to oscillate around until it eventually loses speed to friction and settles to rest approximately back in the middle of the bowl where it started.

It turns out the the first order effects of CO2 on world temperatures are relatively uncontroversial.  The IPCC estimated that, before feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would increase global temperatures by about 1.2C  (2.2F).

Alarmists and skeptics alike generally (but not universally) accept this number or one relatively close to it.

Applied to our increase from 270ppm pre-industrial to 860 ppm in 2100, which we said was about 1.6 doublings, this would imply a first order temperature increase of 3.5F from pre-industrial times to 2100  (actually, it would be a tad more than this, as I am interpolating a logarithmic function linearly, but it has no significant impact on our conclusions, and might increase the 3.5F estimate by a few tenths.)  Again, recognize that this math and this outcome are fairly uncontroversial.

So the question is, how do we get from 3.5F to 15F?  The answer, of course, is the second order effects or feedbacks.  And this, just so we are all clear, IS controversial.

A quick primer on feedback.  We talk of it being a secondary effect, but in fact it is a recursive process, such that there is a secondary, and a tertiary, etc. effects.

Lets imagine that there is a positive feedback that in the secondary effect increases an initial disturbance by 50%.  This means that a force F now becomes F + 50%F.  But the feedback also operates on the additional 50%F, such that the force is F+50%F+50%*50%F…. Etc, etc.  in an infinite series.  Fortunately, this series can be reduced such that the toal Gain =1/(1-f), where f is the feedback percentage in the first iteration. Note that f can and often is negative, such that the gain is actually less than 1.  This means that the net feedbacks at work damp or reduce the initial input, like the bowl in our example that kept returning our ball to the center.

Well, we don’t actually know the feedback fraction Romm is assuming, but we can derive it.  We know his gain must be 4.3 — in other words, he is saying that an initial impact of CO2 of 3.5F is multiplied 4.3x to a final net impact of 15.  So if the gain is 4.3, the feedback fraction f must be about 77%.

Does this make any sense?  My contention is that it does not.  A 77% first order feedback for a complex system is extraordinarily high  — not unprecedented, because nuclear fission is higher — but high enough that it defies nearly every intuition I have about dynamic systems.  On this assumption rests literally the whole debate.  It is simply amazing to me how little good work has been done on this question.  The government is paying people millions of dollars to find out if global warming increases acne or hurts the sex life of toads, while this key question goes unanswered.  (Here is Roy Spencer discussing why he thinks feedbacks have been overestimated to date, and a bit on feedback from Richard Lindzen).

But for those of you looking to get some sense of whether a 15F forecast makes sense, here are a couple of reality checks.

First, we have already experienced about .43 if a doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial times to today.  The same relationships and feedbacks and sensitivities that are forecast forward have to exist backwards as well.  A 15F forecast implies that we should have seen at least 4F of this increase by today.  In fact, we have seen, at most, just 1F  (and to attribute all of that to CO2, rather than, say, partially to the strong late 20th century solar cycle, is dangerous indeed).  But even assuming all of the last century’s 1F temperature increase is due to CO2, we are way, way short of the 4F we might expect.  Sure, there are issues with time delays and the possibility of some aerosol cooling to offset some of the warming, but none of these can even come close to closing a gap between 1F and 4F.  So, for a 15F temperature increase to be a correct forecast, we have to believe that nature and climate will operate fundamentally different than they have over the last 100 years.

Second, alarmists have been peddling a second analysis, called the Mann hockey stick, which is so contradictory to these assumptions of strong positive feedback that it is amazing to me no one has called them on the carpet for it.  In brief, Mann, in an effort to show that 20th century temperature increases are unprecedented and therefore more likely to be due to mankind, created an analysis quoted all over the place (particularly by Al Gore) that says that from the year 1000 to about 1850, the Earth’s temperature was incredibly, unbelievably stable.  He shows that the Earth’s temperature trend in this 800 year period never moves more than a few tenths of a degree C.  Even during the Maunder minimum, where we know the sun was unusually quiet, global temperatures were dead stable.

This is simply IMPOSSIBLE in a high-feedback environment.  There is no way a system dominated by the very high levels of positive feedback assumed in Romm’s and other forecasts could possibly be so rock-stable in the face of large changes in external forcings (such as the output of the sun during the Maunder minimum).  Every time Mann and others try to sell the hockey stick, they are putting a dagger in the heart of high-positive-feedback driven forecasts (which is a category of forecasts that includes probably every single forecast you have seen in the media).

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Richard M
April 15, 2009 12:54 pm

hareynolds (10:39:40) :
“Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what they don’t know.”
No truer words were ever stated relative to AGW. As Frank Lasner recently demonstrated we don’t even know if the natural climate cycle is warming or cooling, we don’t know the effect of aerosols, and we don’t know the effect of ocean oscillations. Hence we don’t know how much each of these (as well as many others) may be influencing our climate.
Of course, this is why so much effort was put into the hockey stick. It attempts to answer these questions in a way that limits the possible warming factor to CO2 alone. Once you admit the hockey stick is a lie then everything becomes unknown and the scientists are back to square 1.

Richard M
April 15, 2009 1:04 pm

I had a sudden acceleration incident about 18 years ago. I pressed my foot solidly on the brake and it did not help. The situation was caused by my car sitting out all night in a fierce snowstorm so it’s probably a little different than what this article is referring to, but I had to turn off the car to stop it from continuing.
I was very lucky in that the car had a clear path in front of it or I surely would have plowed into something. Since the ground was snow covered it took all my attention to control the car and keep it from hitting a bunch of cars. It was in the parking lot of a Holiday Inn where I was forced to stay after the roads became pure ice. I ended up plowing through the end of the parking lot across a street and into an empty church parking lot. This was where I was finally able to put the car into a tight circle and free up a hand to turn off the ignition. I was VERY lucky.

April 15, 2009 1:26 pm

The no-feedbacks temperature response to doubling CO2 concentration is by no means “uncontroversial”. The IPCC’s value is too high, for two reasons. First, the magnitude of the CO2 forcing is excessive: though the IPCC has reduced it by 15%, it is still too high. Secondly, and more seriously, the IPCC has overestimated the value of the Planck feedback parameter, which converts the forcing to temperature in the absence of feedbacks. The IPCC’s value for this parameter, on which not only the no-feedbacks temperature response but also the feedback multiplier depends, is derived by taking the temperature input and the energy input to the fundamental equation of radiative transfer from different planetary emitting surfaces many miles apart (effectively repealing the equation), and by failing to take account of diurnal and latitudinal variations in both temperature and radiance. Correcting these errors considerably reduces the pre-feedback temperature response to doubling CO2 concentration.

Jim Greig
April 15, 2009 1:28 pm

“Robinson (06:57:17) :
After many years of reading this kind of thing, I’m still rump-smackingly incredulous that so called Scientists aren’t aware of problems like this. No really, I’m starting to think there’s some kind of conspiracy going on, because so many people can’t be so unbelievably stupid for so long, in the face of evidence to the contrary, can they?”
Investigators’ first rule is ‘Follow the money.’ The current state of academia is such that if you wish to study the mating habits of the wombat, you won’t get a penny of grant money. If you change your study to “How does AGW affect the mating habits of wombats?”, you are sure to find a grant. The only way to keep your funding flowing, however, is to show that AGW does have a negative impact on the mating habits of wombats.
They then accuse realists of being shills for Big Oil. The problem with that argument is that AGW research funding is an order of magnitude greater than Big Oil funded research.

Demesure
April 15, 2009 1:48 pm

Warren Meyers wrote : “This means that a force F now becomes F + 50%F. But the feedback also operates on the additional 50%F, such that the force is F+50%F+50%*50%F….”
——————————-
If the feedback “also operates on the additional 50%F”, then the iterations should be:
F1 = F0(1+50%)
F2 = F1(1+50%)=F0(1+50%)^2

Fn= F0(1+50%)^n
So the gain should be (1+50%)^n (which corresponds to a rapidly diverging system like any system with total positive feedback as long as no limiting factor kicks in) and not 1/(1-50%).
I don’t understand how Warren ends up with an arithmetic instead of geometrical suite to represent a feedback. Maybe someone can explain please ?

Andy
April 15, 2009 1:57 pm

Tom P. Although Anthony has drubbed you pretty good, I’d just like to add that if you understand thermodynamics, you’d understand why your sauce pan full of milk behaves the way it does. Go learn the difference between bubble point and boiling point. And the bubbles are not a positive feed back. One bubble does not lead to more bubbles.

stumpy
April 15, 2009 2:08 pm

If the hypothesised strong feedback was true, the earths climate would have gone nuts during the Cambrian era when co2 was around 6000ppm!
C02 follows SST, its a linear relationship and TSI, albedo etc… drive SST, simple science, warmer water outgasses co2 like a warm beer. If it was warmer during the MWP as the vast majority of proxies and historical / archeological data suggest, than SST must have been higher and so was Co2. The ice cores fail to show this, as the ice contains most the co2 rather than the air bubles (the ice co2 content used to be measured pre 1985 BTW and yielded much higher co2 levels than today. See Jarowski papers for more detail).
The earths climate has always been driven by solar forcing, albedo, volcanic activity and the oceans. To suggest a gas which never affected the earths natural climate before will now is absurd, especially when we say its a key climate driver!!!
We use a skewed temperature data, ice cores with no proven reliability and proxies that respond more to rainfall and co2 level than to temperature to judge how the climate works, we than fill a model with assumptions and a few pieces of the puzzle and assume the answer is fact without checking the results, hence we were doomed from the start!

Graeme Rodaughan
April 15, 2009 2:19 pm

Mark Wagner (06:12:04) :
if it’s got a dagger to the heart, why won’t it die?

Because AGW Catastrophism is an Incubus. It sucks the critical thinking capability dry, feasts on Intelligence, dessicates Wisdom and instills a Righteous Certainty in those it sinks it’s fangs into.
Probably needs an exorcism.

Tom
April 15, 2009 2:22 pm

In spite of of the sound scientific reasons – lack of positive feedback in the climate being probaly the most important – nothing seems to stop the political progress of AGW proponents. Well, if you cannot beat them, join them. No, I am not proposing to join the crowd who think that Global Warming is the greatest danger facing mankind. Instead, I want to call attention to what I think the greatest danger facing mankind: Excessive Farting . Too much farting creates a hostile environment and causes global warming. Also you do not have to worry about creating scientific justifications and computer models, because there will not be anybody in favor of excessive farting. The next step for the United Nation to establish the IPFC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Fart Control. I am sure that after sessions and assessment reports they will come to the conclusions that:
a., Excessive Farting ( EF ) is caused by mankind – although bovine contribution is not insignificant.
b., The only sure way to reduce EF is to drastically reduce, or in some cases totally eliminate eating.

jorgekafkazar
April 15, 2009 2:22 pm

1. Arn Riewe (07:53:33) :”[Joe Romm]…is a second order idiot with a high positive feedback.”
Joe Romm is not an idiot. The dear man merely marches to the beat of a different…um…kazoo.
2. feralmonkey4 (10:32:31) :”…A dagger to the heart won’t kill a vampire and AGW is the largest bloodsucker of them all.”
Daylight! That’s the answer. Open the curtains! Let the sun shine upon the vampire and shrivel it to dust!
3. Tom P (10:02:23) : “A saucepan can boil milk all over the hob once it reaches 212 deg F…”
Yes, and then the fire goes out.

George E. Smith
April 15, 2009 2:35 pm

I’m not a Chemist; and have a somewhat protracted chemistry education; but then chemistry is just applied Physics anyway.
Le Chatalier’s Principle, is just one example; Lenz’s law is another, of systems where NEGATIVE feedback is the order of the day.
High Brightness LEDs exhibit negative feedback. LED Optical structures tend to trap generate light by the Total Internal Reflection mechanism. Light extraction methods in low absorption substrates work to scatter the light at rough surfaces, so that at some point it finds an advantageouus incidence angle and escapes from the “Optical Trap”. So these processes keep the photons circulating through the structure, until they either escape or are absorbed somewhow.
Well the band gaps of these materials are such that they efficiently absorb the same photons they generate via the photoelectric effect, wherin the LED becomes a photodiode absorbing photons, and releasing electrons.
This re-absorption photocurrent is ALWAYS in the opposite direction of the externally applied drive current, so it lowers the net current flowing and thereby raises the apparent internal impedance of the diode. Ultimately as the structures becoame more efficient; this counter current eventually limits the abilty to drive the LED to higher light output.
It is a classic example of Le Chatalier’s principle that physical systems tend to react to a disturbance, in such a way as to try and cancel out the disturbance. That’s exactly what NEGATIVE feedback does.
So negative feedback is very common in physical systems.
When it comes to the natural occurrence of POSITIVE feedback, I’m afraid I have to be convinced that it is real; and not simply a system in transit from one equilibrium starting condition to a different equilibrium final condition.
All physical process changes take time to happen; and during the time that is happening, one can easily make the argument that positive feedback exists. It’s not really positive feedback, but simply propagation delay in a simple forward driven process.
George

Tom P
April 15, 2009 2:55 pm

Anthony,
Warren’s argument is about stability vs. instability, not whether the recent stable climate system has negative or weak positive feedback. Indeed there has been discussion concerning the overall sign of the sum of the feedback contributions. My analogy holds regardless of that sign.
Andy,
Bubble point concerns mixtures of liquids. For milk, which is a weak dilution of fat in water, it is irrelevant – it has a bubble point very close to that of pure water. But don’t take my word for it – do the experiment:
A saucepan of milk (I used 2%) will start boiling from the perimeter. The bubbles increasingly cover the surface and act to insulate the liquid from further heat loss and the milk will start to boil over. The positive feedback is not because bubbles directly cause more bubbles, but because they reduce the heat loss and so increase the power available to boil the milk.
As water does not have the fat in milk which acts to stabilise the bubbles, it is much less prone to boil over in an open saucepan. The feedback due to the bubbles is still positive, but much less than unity.
It is the additional positive feedback in a saucepan of milk that makes it so prone to cause a mess on boiling.

Nick D
April 15, 2009 4:02 pm

Andy (09:31:12) :
“Hank, to answer your question, it has to do with the infrared absorption characteristics of CO2. Absorption of “light” follows a logarithmic function (basically Beer’s Law). You eventually reach a saturation point where adding more has zero change.”
If memory serves, Andy has raised this point before; certainly others have. It is important, but ill-understood, and generally ignored. Beer’s Law looked at another way, says that given a fixed light source (in this case solar radiation re-emitted from the earth’s surface) and a fixed absorption path length (thickness of the atmosphere) there is a concentration of CO2 beyond which there is effectively no more radiation left to absorb at the wavelengths of interest (saturation). The atmosphere, at these wavelengths, is black. At this point adding more CO2 not only doesn’t do anything, it can’t. Nor can it therefore promote feedbacks of any kind. There is no more energy to absorb. The molecular structure of CO2 (or any other absorber) defines this saturation concentration.
Therefore, the only pertinent questions are, what is the saturation concentration for CO2 in the atmosphere, and how close are we to it? There have been several estimates of this (see Plimer’s recent videos, for instance), and the saturation concentration appears to be somewhere around 500 ppm. If so, then discussions of effects past this concentration are meaningless.

Leon Brozyna
April 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Good article; makes for fascinating reading.
In other words, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

April 15, 2009 4:22 pm

Tom P, what does “A saucepan of milk (I used 2%) will start boiling from the perimeter” have to do with your analogy? That didn’t happen because of positive feedback either, if you think it through.
You’re wrong, Anthony’s right, be a stand up guy and admit it. Maybe Vanna will have some lovely parting gifts for you on the way out.

Henry Galt
April 15, 2009 5:06 pm

Nick D (16:02:49) :
“Therefore, the only pertinent questions are, what is the saturation concentration for CO2 in the atmosphere, and how close are we to it?”
Definately less than 10% of the “several estimates” I estimate 😉
Adiabatic lapse rate. CO2 cools the world. As soon as it gets to @22ppmv its work is done.
Romm is a shill for cap and trade and gets his kicks from political interference. He is out of his field, in the pay of big carbon credit funding and has books to sell doncha know.

Tom P
April 15, 2009 5:08 pm

Anthony,
I thought it was obvious the feedback is not in the temperature, it’s in the heat that gets into the milk and produces the bubbles which make it froth up and boil over. Will a climate froth up and boil over? Of course not!
The saucepan analogy is to illustrate how a stable system can become unstable if a new positive feedback mechanism is introduced with sufficient gain.
The bubbles produce a positive feedback once boiling at the edge of the saucepan starts – it is the new positive mechanism. Here is the feedback diagram:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3089/milkfeedback.png
The strength of the feedback, the block labelled “insulation” depends on how well the bubbles are stabilised, and is larger in milk than in water. Hence there can be runaway and boiling over if the insulation factor is increased.
This explains why milk is much more likely to boil over than water which can simmer quite stably. It also explains why a pan with just water can boil over if a lid is put on it – the lid increases the insulation factor as well.
I hope this finally makes it clear.

Mark_0454
April 15, 2009 6:24 pm

I started to write something else, but one of the best things about this site is the (mostly) civil tone and the (mostly) scientific emphasis of the discussion.
Tom P. Your analogy is flawed. Even if you believe it, it is not helping in the discussion. Please seek another way to make your point and move on. If you can make your point in another way, I will be happy to read it and consider it. But, as it is I (and others) simply don’t agree with the your point about feedback as you have chosen to present it. Perhaps in another form, it will make more sense.

Bill Illis
April 15, 2009 6:41 pm

The feedbacks better start showing up soon or someone will have call the game due to the mercy rule.
There is no water vapour feedback apparent yet.
– the NCEP reanalysis data shows almost no change at all in specific humidity.
– the newer, more accurate databases show no statistical change in specific humidity.
– The Hadley Centre just finished an exhaustive study of humidity levels and found a little change but not enough to match the expected levels (even after applying the usual “adjustments”).
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcruh/
Icesheet feedbacks.
– well there is a little decline in mid-latitude glaciers.
– but one can’t really conclude there is a definable melt in Greenland or Antarctica.
– the polar sea ice is 4.3% above normal right now so no feedback there.
The Ocean Heat Content does not appear to be increasing anymore so there is no forcing hiding there, unless there is warming occurring in the very deep ocean below the levels reported by the Argo floats at 1000M and lower (there is measurements done of the very deep ocean, it is just not reported yet: the data I’ve seen showed a modest increase of 0.02C rise at the deepest levels).
So, a few more at bats or the mercy rule will have to be called on the feedbacks.

Mark T
April 15, 2009 6:53 pm

Tom P (17:08:00) :
I thought it was obvious the feedback is not in the temperature, it’s in the heat that gets into the milk and produces the bubbles which make it froth up and boil over.

No, Tom, that is not feedback. Your example is a simple phase change from liquid to gas. Now, if you put a lid on the liquid, that would force an increase in pressure, which would cause the temperature of the liquid to increase faster than it otherwise would have from the heat alone.
The saucepan analogy is to illustrate how a stable system can become unstable if a new positive feedback mechanism is introduced with sufficient gain.
It is not unstable, either, just more energetic.
Mark

Mark T
April 15, 2009 7:00 pm

Oh, and btw, positive feedback does not cause instability by itself. As long as the feedback term is less than unity (poles in the left half of the complex plane), the system will remain stable. What does cause instability, is not physically possible with the system under consideration (unless you have another power source besides the sun to power it).
You can look this up on any control theory website, or in a good textbook on the subject. This information is not hard to find.
Mark

Arn Riewe
April 15, 2009 7:46 pm

wattsupwiththat (16:00:59) :
“Really Tom, your analogy isn’t relevant. Stop digging your hole and simply admit that there is no positive feedback in your analogy.”
Haven’t they shared the Alarmist 101 rule with you – “When you find yourself in a hole, dig faster”

Robert Bateman
April 15, 2009 7:52 pm

Limit CO2 emissions and you’ll put a damper on all human activity.
And cause the survival rate of people worldwide to plummet, panicking their respective governments into acts of betrayal so as to win thier right to survive while others perish.
AGW agenda is not only stupid, wrong and flaky, it’s downright dangerous.
If this is the best Earth can do, why bother?
Their argument has gone from science, to polyscience to Russian Roulette.
Not once have I heard them thinking things through to the conclusion.
Doesn’t surprise me. CO2 seems like an impenetrable force field of positive feedback to them. It’s a gas, and there really isn’t all that much of it.
And, for that matter, it surely didn’t save Mars, and it ain’t like Earth has Venus opaque atmosphere.