I found this article well researched and clearly written, so I thought I’d repost it here for all to enjoy. Warren Meyers was one of the first volunteers for the surfacestations.org project and we share blog content semi-regularly. This is a rebuttal to Joe Romm’s (of Climate Progress) claim of a 15°F AGW induced temperature rise by 2100. – Anthony
For several years, there was an absolute spate of lawsuits charging sudden acceleration of a motor vehicle — you probably saw such a story: Some person claims they hardly touched the accelerator and the car leaped ahead at enormous speed and crashed into the house or the dog or telephone pole or whatever. Many folks have been skeptical that cars were really subject to such positive feedback effects where small taps on the accelerator led to enormous speeds, particularly when almost all the plaintiffs in these cases turned out to be over 70 years old. It seemed that a rational society might consider other causes than unexplained positive feedback, but there was too much money on the line to do so.
Many of you know that I consider questions around positive feedback in the climate system to be the key issue in global warming, the one that separates a nuisance from a catastrophe. Is the Earth’s climate similar to most other complex, long-term stable natural systems in that it is dominated by negative feedback effects that tend to damp perturbations? Or is the Earth’s climate an exception to most other physical processes, is it in fact dominated by positive feedback effects that, like the sudden acceleration in grandma’s car, apparently rockets the car forward into the house with only the lightest tap of the accelerator?
I don’t really have any new data today on feedback, but I do have a new climate forecast from a leading alarmist that highlights the importance of the feedback question.
Dr. Joseph Romm of Climate Progress wrote the other day that he believes the mean temperature increase in the “consensus view” is around 15F from pre-industrial times to the year 2100. Mr. Romm is mainly writing, if I read him right, to say that critics are misreading what the consensus forecast is. Far be it for me to referee among the alarmists (though 15F is substantially higher than the IPCC report “consensus”). So I will take him at his word that 15F increase with a CO2 concentration of 860ppm is a good mean alarmist forecast for 2100.
I want to deconstruct the implications of this forecast a bit.
For simplicity, we often talk about temperature changes that result from a doubling in Co2 concentrations. The reason we do it this way is because the relationship between CO2 concentrations and temperature increases is not linear but logarithmic. Put simply, the temperature change from a CO2 concentration increase from 200 to 300ppm is different (in fact, larger) than the temperature change we might expect from a concentration increase of 600 to 700 ppm. But the temperature change from 200 to 400 ppm is about the same as the temperature change from 400 to 800 ppm, because each represents a doubling. This is utterly uncontroversial.
If we take the pre-industrial Co2 level as about 270ppm, the current CO2 level as 385ppm, and the 2100 Co2 level as 860 ppm, this means that we are about 43% through a first doubling of Co2 since pre-industrial times, and by 2100 we will have seen a full doubling (to 540ppm) plus about 60% of the way to a second doubling. For simplicity, then, we can say Romm expects 1.6 doublings of Co2 by 2100 as compared to pre-industrial times.
So, how much temperature increase should we see with a doubling of CO2? One might think this to be an incredibly controversial figure at the heart of the whole matter. But not totally. We can break the problem of temperature sensitivity to Co2 levels into two pieces – the expected first order impact, ahead of feedbacks, and then the result after second order effects and feedbacks.
What do we mean by first and second order effects? Well, imagine a golf ball in the bottom of a bowl. If we tap the ball, the first order effect is that it will head off at a constant velocity in the direction we tapped it. The second order effects are the gravity and friction and the shape of the bowl, which will cause the ball to reverse directions, roll back through the middle, etc., causing it to oscillate around until it eventually loses speed to friction and settles to rest approximately back in the middle of the bowl where it started.
It turns out the the first order effects of CO2 on world temperatures are relatively uncontroversial. The IPCC estimated that, before feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would increase global temperatures by about 1.2C (2.2F).
Alarmists and skeptics alike generally (but not universally) accept this number or one relatively close to it.
Applied to our increase from 270ppm pre-industrial to 860 ppm in 2100, which we said was about 1.6 doublings, this would imply a first order temperature increase of 3.5F from pre-industrial times to 2100 (actually, it would be a tad more than this, as I am interpolating a logarithmic function linearly, but it has no significant impact on our conclusions, and might increase the 3.5F estimate by a few tenths.) Again, recognize that this math and this outcome are fairly uncontroversial.
So the question is, how do we get from 3.5F to 15F? The answer, of course, is the second order effects or feedbacks. And this, just so we are all clear, IS controversial.
A quick primer on feedback. We talk of it being a secondary effect, but in fact it is a recursive process, such that there is a secondary, and a tertiary, etc. effects.
Lets imagine that there is a positive feedback that in the secondary effect increases an initial disturbance by 50%. This means that a force F now becomes F + 50%F. But the feedback also operates on the additional 50%F, such that the force is F+50%F+50%*50%F…. Etc, etc. in an infinite series. Fortunately, this series can be reduced such that the toal Gain =1/(1-f), where f is the feedback percentage in the first iteration. Note that f can and often is negative, such that the gain is actually less than 1. This means that the net feedbacks at work damp or reduce the initial input, like the bowl in our example that kept returning our ball to the center.
Well, we don’t actually know the feedback fraction Romm is assuming, but we can derive it. We know his gain must be 4.3 — in other words, he is saying that an initial impact of CO2 of 3.5F is multiplied 4.3x to a final net impact of 15. So if the gain is 4.3, the feedback fraction f must be about 77%.
Does this make any sense? My contention is that it does not. A 77% first order feedback for a complex system is extraordinarily high — not unprecedented, because nuclear fission is higher — but high enough that it defies nearly every intuition I have about dynamic systems. On this assumption rests literally the whole debate. It is simply amazing to me how little good work has been done on this question. The government is paying people millions of dollars to find out if global warming increases acne or hurts the sex life of toads, while this key question goes unanswered. (Here is Roy Spencer discussing why he thinks feedbacks have been overestimated to date, and a bit on feedback from Richard Lindzen).
But for those of you looking to get some sense of whether a 15F forecast makes sense, here are a couple of reality checks.
First, we have already experienced about .43 if a doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial times to today. The same relationships and feedbacks and sensitivities that are forecast forward have to exist backwards as well. A 15F forecast implies that we should have seen at least 4F of this increase by today. In fact, we have seen, at most, just 1F (and to attribute all of that to CO2, rather than, say, partially to the strong late 20th century solar cycle, is dangerous indeed). But even assuming all of the last century’s 1F temperature increase is due to CO2, we are way, way short of the 4F we might expect. Sure, there are issues with time delays and the possibility of some aerosol cooling to offset some of the warming, but none of these can even come close to closing a gap between 1F and 4F. So, for a 15F temperature increase to be a correct forecast, we have to believe that nature and climate will operate fundamentally different than they have over the last 100 years.
Second, alarmists have been peddling a second analysis, called the Mann hockey stick, which is so contradictory to these assumptions of strong positive feedback that it is amazing to me no one has called them on the carpet for it. In brief, Mann, in an effort to show that 20th century temperature increases are unprecedented and therefore more likely to be due to mankind, created an analysis quoted all over the place (particularly by Al Gore) that says that from the year 1000 to about 1850, the Earth’s temperature was incredibly, unbelievably stable. He shows that the Earth’s temperature trend in this 800 year period never moves more than a few tenths of a degree C. Even during the Maunder minimum, where we know the sun was unusually quiet, global temperatures were dead stable.
This is simply IMPOSSIBLE in a high-feedback environment. There is no way a system dominated by the very high levels of positive feedback assumed in Romm’s and other forecasts could possibly be so rock-stable in the face of large changes in external forcings (such as the output of the sun during the Maunder minimum). Every time Mann and others try to sell the hockey stick, they are putting a dagger in the heart of high-positive-feedback driven forecasts (which is a category of forecasts that includes probably every single forecast you have seen in the media).
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Quoting:
“Can someone explain to me exactly why people like us, to whom the evidence against AGW is overwhelming, cannot seem to get through to the true believers?”
Commenting:
I believe it has to do with the degree that they have “painted themselves in a corner”. Reputations, livelyhoods and big, big pork dollars are being endangered by the rising tide of evidence against and increasing public rejection of AGW – not to mention actual climate cooling.
In their panic to save face, they want to “take action” immediately, so they can take credit when the non-problem results in non-disaster. Hence the new terms like “worse than expected” and “tipping point” and even “civil disobedience”.
AL, Jim, et al, are running scared.
The science of AGW is about as real as the Rommulan claoking device.
This is the Holy Grail. If the feedback in the model causes a huge feedback effect, why hasn’t this already occured with other similar sized forcing. Climate optimum being the most obvious example, according to the IPCC model the temperature increase in the optimum should have triggered feedback effects to increase the temperature even further. Where is the evidence for this.
So, the end game is as follows. There is no feedback effect , the increase in temp for doubling CO2 will be 2F. We have had 1F, so my prediction is for another 1F by 2100. Simple as that.
Robinson (06:57:17) : After many years of reading this kind of thing, I’m still rump-smackingly incredulous that so called Scientists aren’t aware of problems like this.
I think they are intelligent cynics who know the facts, but choose to ignore them because it means huge amounts of grant money to fund more job security, Robinson.
Somewhere in my deep, dark past when I was young I learned from reading sci-fi that the best way to lie was to always tell the truth – just never tell the whole truth. So-called climate scientists seem to have learned the same thing.
off topic — delete me if you must.
Yesterday this month’s issue of Captain America arrived (it’s for my son). The villain was a mad scientist seeking to knock off 35 to 50% of the world’s population (“we are running out of resources.”).
I seem to recall a Federal study concluded that the most likely cause of “sudden acceleration syndrome” was that gas and break pedals hadn’t gotten smaller and closer together over the years, and those drivers who thought they were stomping the “break” for all they were worth were actually on the gas pedal. I think that was part of why we got break interlock systems where you can’t put the vehicle in gear unless you’re foot is on the break pedal first.
Sorry, “had”, not “hadn’t” gotten smaller.
Not to quibble too much with the general sentiment of Mr. Meyers’ piece, but Romm did say (at least according to the link provided) “Thus, even with the IPCC’s most likely climate sensitivity, the median projected warming for the vast majority of the United States (including Alaska) by 2100 is indeed around 10°F to 15°F — depending on whether you use the IPCC’s A1f1 scenario or the recent MIT and Hadley projections.”
The key point being “the vast majority of the United States.” Since the U.S. (land) should warm to a fair degree more than the global average, this is a key piece of information left out of the analysis.
I wonder to what degree Mr. Meyers’ conclusions would be tempered it he started with an assumed 10°F rise (caused by 886ppm CO2) and considered that it was supposed to occur over the U.S.?
I am not suggesting that this is what is going to happen, but just that if you are going to take on alarmist claims, the counter should be robust, not loose and easily attackable (that’s what gets people in trouble with Romm in the first place).
The bottom line is, is that I do think that that climate sensitivities in current generation climate models are too large, but Mr. Meyers’ look at Romm’s statements is not an adequate analysis of Romm’s claims—which are in themselves nothing new, he is simply aping the IPCC.
Hank, to answer your question, it has to do with the infrared absorption characteristics of CO2. Absorption of “light” follows a logarithmic function (basically Beer’s Law). You eventually reach a saturation point where adding more has zero change.
Hopefully, that answers your question.
@Stefan
Take away the politics from the CO2 emissions debate and there’s not much left. CO2 is not a pollutant but CO2 emissions are a by-product of production and consumption. Limit CO2 emissions and you’ll put a damper on all human activity.
Correct, Geo. People who were used to large American cars with widely spaced pedals the size of your foot had trouble when they bought sleek, smaller European models that had a much more efficient design. Recall that the Audi was the number one “culprit” back in the 80’s, but no defect in the Audi’s basic design was ever found – other than that the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal were both slim and spaced quite closely together. Audi had done this because, for a performance driver, it is a great benefit to not have much space between the two. Drivers not used to a performance pedal setup should not have been driving that type of car.
One of the most telling clues was that people who this happened to routinely reported that the harder they pressed on the brake, the faster the car went. If you press on the brake and the accelerator simultaneously in any car manufactured over the last several decades, the brakes win. (Try it if you doubt it – on second thought, don’t try it unless you want to tear your engine up) So if someone was pressing on the brakes as hard as they could, it’s physically impossible for a car to accelerate, it doesn’t have the power – and yet this is what almost every victim reported.
Only one explanation – the victims were pushing on the gas as hard as they could, and wondering why the car didn’t stop.
There’s a lesson there somewhere, I imagine something about the gap between belief and physical reality.
Anthony,
“A saucepan has no feedbacks, only a linear heat source. Other than convection and evaporation, both of which remove heat from the saucepan, we have only radiative heat loss remaining in response to the linear forcing. I think your analogy fails because there is no amplification (positive feedback) in a saucepan system.”
The reason for runaway boiling is that as bubbles, stabilised by the milk chemistry, start to form by boiling on the surface of the milk, heat losses from the liquid surface of the milk are drastically reduced. Hence more of the power from the stove is available for boiling the milk, forming even more bubbles. This is positive feedback, enhanced by the composition of milk. It only kicks in once boiling starts which means there is such a short time to turn down the heat to avoid a mess.
I think it’s quite a fair analogy.
REPLY: We are talking about heat content, not boilng. It does not really apply to earth anyway because we aren’t about to runaway boiling of the oceans anytime soon, unless our sun turns into a red giant tomorrow. Your initial comment of “there’s no question it would sit quite happily at 200F for as long as you wished.” is the issue. Demonstrate a positive feedback there, that returns heat to the system and you might have something. As it stands I don’t see any positive feedback in your analogy at all, and the boiling is not relevant. – Anthony
Mark Wagner
To answer your question a dagger to the heart won’t kill a vampire and AGW is the largest bloodsucker of them all.
gary gulrud (07:10:30) said:
Although the choice of cycle transitions is not explained, looks to this amateur that 23/24 transition is not like 13/14 but very like 4/5–if one may conclude that the sun goes through ‘regimes of activity’ a few cycles in length.
I concur. I like the phrase “regimes of activity”. Mathematically that would look like overlaid, roughly sinusoidal phenomena with different phases, which become additive every, say ~400 years. Don’t ask what the overlaid phenomena are, I have no idea. But I recognize additive sinusoids when I see them.
More likely, over a long enough period, the sinusoids would behave according to not-strictly-linear functions; however, it’s not surprising that things look at least quasi-linear to us poor groundlings over the last little epoch of 4-500 years.
Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what they don’t know. We “model” climate without a solar input. We coarsely “measure” spots, mostly because we’ve BEEN “measuring” spots for a long time. Solar flux is measured at a 10.7 cm wavelength, but that’s completely arbitrary. Anybody who drags planetary orbits into a climate discussion is reviled and spit-upon. Ad nauseum.
I am left with two conclusions: (a) Humans systematically ignore the written warnings about human nature, especially the ones concerning HUBRIS, and (b) therefore (an ASCII character for the three little dots would be neat) we are all merely monkeys. Nice looking, upright, entirely too-clever ones to be sure, but monkeys nevertheless.
Which, of course, goes a long way towards explaining the AGW belief structure.
I think Geophyss 55 has it exactly right. When nothing happens the believers will claim that spending billions of dollars has achieved what they set out to do! “We were just in time” will be the call.
To all – I have tried on several ocassions lately to post analyses like the above to Joe Romm’s website, climateprogress.org, and without exception every one is scrubbed from the site.
Just an FYI. If you go on that site and seem amazed at the lack of dissenting beliefs, it’s because Joe Goebbels Romm does not allow facts to get in the way of his eco-socialist rhetoric.
During the recent televised debate he had with Marc Morano, Romm alleged that unchecked, our CO2 emissions would lead to 15F additional temperatures and 5-10 foot sea level rise by 2100. Does anyone with a functioning brain, and an understanding of the empirical data on global temperature and sea level rise since the dawn of industrialization, really believe such hyperbole?
And to think Joe Romm calls denier scientists “uncitable” and “uncredible”.
“Stefan (08:11:56) :
I was told by an environmentalist that even if CO2 isn’t a problem, CO2 is still the best issue to go after because CO2 is tied to production, and so by reducing CO2 you reduce production and so you “reduce greed”.”
To be fair, Stefan, that is not environmentalism; it’s socialism/communism. True environmentalism would not be concerned with things that don’t have adverse effects on the environment.
Stefan (08:11:56) said :
I was told by an environmentalist that even if CO2 isn’t a problem, CO2 is still the best issue to go after because CO2 is tied to production, and so by reducing CO2 you reduce production and so you “reduce greed”.
Wanting to change the world is as much an ego trip as being a fatcat CEO. At least the latter has real numbers to worry about. Greenies just have their lofty vague belief system.
Excellent excellent post..
The French word for such a person is “dirigiste” (NB that the French don’t seem to see anything WRONG with “dirigisme”). I myself am made uncomfortable by the gossamer thinness of the line between “dirigisme” and “totalitarianism”.
Read Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom or Freidman’s Capitalism and Freedom.
The challenge for the well-educated (especially if their education stretches beyond their intelligence, which is not uncomon nowadays) is to retain a profound sense of humility, not just in the face of other well-meaning monkeys, er, human beings with whom they don’t agree, but in the face of the rest of the universe, known and unknown.
Stewart Brand, father of the Whole Earth Catalogue and generally wacky human, said a long time ago that (paraphrasing) we are beginning to have the powers of Gods, we need to learn to act like it. Too bad we picked Bacchus.
Fascinating post. Thank you.
Carbonicus (10:46:07),
Censorship of ideas is the defining characteristic of rabid pro-AGW blogs like RealClimate and climateprogress.
Why? Because they understand perfectly well that their AGW/CO2 hypothesis can not withstand scrutiny; it fails. Rather than admitting the fact that the climate is cooling as CO2 is rising, they use censorship as a tactic.
Unlike WUWT, they delete opposing points of view. That’s not science, that’s advocacy.
I like the car accelerator analogy. The accelerator pedal is definitely subject to negative feedback rather than positive feedback. When you depress the accelerator, the car accelerates forward and your body’s inertia effectively accelrates you backwards relative to the car, including your foot on the pedal. This relative acceleration tends to lessen the pressure on the pedal, which reduces the acceleration. This is a negative feedback. Of course, you can easily overcome this feedback if you’re deliberately pressing down on the pedal, but if you accidentally push lightly on the pedal you can feel this negative feedback.
And, of course, the opposite happens with the brake pedal. The harder you brake, the harder you push on the pedal – that’s positive feedback (unless you’re going in reverse, of course)
Kudos. Another great putdown of the hockeystick!
Anthony,
“It does not really apply to earth anyway because we aren’t about to runaway boiling of the oceans anytime soon…”
Nor are they made of milk, nor do they sit in a saucepan on a stove!
My analogy of heating a saucepan of milk on a stove illustrates a system that can be pushed from stability to instability by changing the conditions and so introducing a new positive feedback term.
The major error in Warren’s article is that he uses an analysis of the climate system with new feedback terms to try to demonstrate prior instability and hence a contradiction with past climate. Hence, he argues, such large positive feedback cannot operate in the future.
Unfortunately there is no contradiction between a stable system at one temperature, and sudden instability at an increased temperature. I’m sure anyone who has just taken their eye off their gently warming milk for a moment and then had to clear up the resulting mess can confirm this.
Romm may be exaggerating future temperature responses, but Warren has not produced a valid counter argument.
REPLY: Well on this we disagree (as we do on most everything). Your analogy fails, even though you won’t admit it. Per your original example, there is no positive feedback at 200F, you ducked the question. Why not simply admit your saucepan analogy is lacking (since you provided no example of positive feedback for heat) and move on? – Anthony
“It turns out the the first order effects of CO2 on world temperatures are relatively uncontroversial. The IPCC estimated that, before feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would increase global temperatures by about 1.2C (2.2F).”
“Alarmists and skeptics alike generally (but not universally) accept this number or one relatively close to it.”
A very Interesting approach and a great article but I would debate the last sentence. Most of those sceptics that I know are still to be persuaded that a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere would lead to any increase in temperature. But, if past cycles are anything to go by an increase of 1.2C might lead to a substantial increase in atmospheric CO2.
feralmonkey4: It takes a wooden cross (stake) driven into the heart to kill a vampire.